X800XT or 6800 Ultra?

[Joe_Beasley]

I am purchasing a new Vid Card to complete my system in mid february. I just can not decide between getting Nvidia with the Shader 3, or the X800XT.

I would like this system to run a vast assortment of games at the highest settings for as long as it is possible with this generation of cards. What are the pros and cons of owning either? I just want to make sure i get the best bang for the buck with this thing, as its the first time i've been able to buy myself a card of this magnitude. (I waited until just last year to get a 9800 Pro).

I am leaning towards the Nvidia and Shader 3, but im open to anything that helps make the best purchase. The 6800GT isnt ruled out either, but overclocking it to Ultra doesnt beat an Ultra Overclocked to Xtreme IMO.

Thanks in advance.

[Savuti]

Both 6800 ultra and x800 xt will serve well in the next 12-16 or more months of current and upcoming games. But with your game setting requirements and longetivity the x850 xt/pe, and or an sli setup might serve better.

Is shader 3.0 support your main criteria? While it has been shown to boost performance, at the moment there's only a couple of games that have it implemented. i think it won't be really supported til the next generation of gpus and by then ATI will also have it as a feature for their r520 cards.

Are you also going to occasionally bench? As you may know the current 6600 - 6800 series excels in both 3dmark 03 and 05 while the ati x800s do real well in 3dmark01 and can hold their own in the others. Oc wise, i think the x800 xt and especially the x800 vivos will give you more headroom compared to the 6800 ultra. The 6xxxs however given the lower default clocks that they're running seems to have a more efficient pixel and vertex shader architectures and can more than hold their own in the highest in game settings. One can also take the up and coming games into consideration, if more and more games license id's engine we know that it traditionally favors the 6800's architecture (ultra shadow and opengl efficiency) vs the Source and ATI's architecture. We can also throw in the upcoming Unreal 3 engine into the mix.

Going back it all depends on what criterias (i.e. budget, value/price, frequency of upgrades, feature set, in game settings, oc ability, power requirements, potential performance in upcoming games/engine licenses, benchmark performances ect ect) are worthy to you.

[Joe_Beasley]

Price is not an issue, up to a point. I am happy with my motherboard and setup as it is, so going to SLI right now is not really an option. And to be honest, that price does start to become an issue...lol.

Im looking at keeping this whole thing as close to 450.00-500.00 as possible. Buying a new Nforce4 Board brings my budget for a new card down considerably. Therefore, its AGP only for me.

As for the rest, My next upgrade will be going to PCI-e and a new card, but thats probably going to be christmas of '06 for me. Sooner or later, depending on the market of course. Feature wise, i just want the best performance in the games i purchase between now and then. I have a 500w PSU with 34a on the 12v rail, so i am ok for any of the AGP cards out right now. This puppy is holding the most stable rails i have seen in any PSU i have owned. Overclockability is nice to have of course, but i usually only clock my card to the next highest one and stop. (ie: 9800pro to XT, 6800GT to Ultra), and they all basically can do that i think.

So what it all comes down to is whats going to perform better for me, both right now and down the road. I do occasionally benchmark of course, but my happiness doesnt rely on my 3dmark score. I will just list some games that may interest me that i see, and then see who chimes in on the best way to go.

Nascar Sim racing
Guild Wars
WoW
Doom 3 Ressurection Expansion Pack
Half Life 2 (already Own)
EA Football 2006
Morrowind Oblivion
Battlefield 2

Thats just some games that i may or may not purchase this year. Alot of mixture in type and style of course.

[Savuti]

In regards to those titles you listed, with the exception of D3: ROE and Morrowind Oblivion (still unreleased, but even then) i personally would go with ATI's x800 XT or even a good brand of x800 Pro Vivo, which is like the counter part of the 6800 GT in value and oc ability.

The upper x800s excels in many DX9 titles edging the 6800s especially when AA and Aniso are cranked up at high resolutions. Although with this generation Nvidia and their 6800 architecture has closed the gap considerably making it a toss up in certain cases; many times it's able to keep up with ATI's high end gpus at the highest resolutions with max in game settings and filtering to boot. Considering that the 6800 Ultra is performing at lower clocks per cycle compared to ATI's x800 XT or even PE brutes, it shows how efficient the 6800s shader architecture this time around. Also with Doom 3 and consequently up and coming titles that'll use open gl and its shadow system they will more than likely lean towards the 6800s. And in addition although shader 3.0 support is not at present time widely used later on when its adopted and becomes more common it could provide added performance boost.

So to summarize i would go with the x800 inspite the 6800s newer architecture for various reasons: its performance in DX9 titles and strong fillrate capability - not only at high resolutions but with additional filtering, headroom when it comes to oc ability, value in terms of the x800 vivos, driver maturation and constant revisions ect. However, either way, it or a 6800 ultra will serve well in those games you listed.

[kryptobs2000]

6800's suck at 05 compared to 03 last I heard, but I would say go with either a x800 pro vivio or a 6800 ultra, but the newer vivo's are known to not be unlockable.

[kickassclone]

The dual slot x850 isn't even worth buying for the small arse increase it gives in performance. Ati is starting to look like a joke.

[kryptobs2000]

agreed to that, I am optimistic towards the r520 though, and maybe you'll think I'm a fanboy for this, but I am much more anticipating nvidia's next card, just cause the completely went back and started from scratch, it's gotta be something worth waiting for.

[Joe_Beasley]

Im not sure if this matters, and by the way i appreciatte all the help....I play all my games at 1600x1200 because of my huge 22" CRT monitor. So, the card that will work with games at that resolution, preferrably with AA/AF on, will be the best solution for me.

[kryptobs2000]

x800 = higher fps w/aa/af due to the higher fillrate. What kind of cooling are you going to have? You plan on putting it under phase/water/stock or what?

[Tha SmokaH]

I like my 6800 alot..radeons have alot of ups to..but i have had two 9800pro's and a 9700 pro die on me..so i will be spending my money with nvidia from here on out.

[Der_KHAN]

for me there are mainly 2 reasons why to choose ati over nvidia:

better AA - 2xAA looks like 4xAA on an nvidia card

video gamma - i can increase the gamma value of videos (maybe recent drivers allow that for nvidia cards too, dunno)

[kryptobs2000]

better AA - 2xAA looks like 4xAA on an nvidia card


Not true at all

[grimREEFER]

u could run sli in the future if u had a 6800u

[c42]

Im looking at keeping this whole thing as close to 450.00-500.00 as possible. Buying a new Nforce4 Board brings my budget for a new card down considerably. Therefore, its AGP only for me.

As for the rest, My next upgrade will be going to PCI-e and a new card, but thats probably going to be christmas of '06 for me.


Wait wait wait... hold the bus. You are getting a nf4 board and wanting an AGP solution? NF4 is PCI-E only. If you want AGP go NF3, if you want an NF4 Solution, check out the x800xl(if you can find one) or x800xt, those should hold you over for a while. Also I'm figuring you have 19 inch or smaller LCD? If so you're highest res would be 1280x1024, so x800xt would do you plenty fine for at least a year I'd say. If you are using CRT, then nm on the resolution, but still I'd think those would do you fine. You can also get 6800GT PCI-E in your price range.

[Disposibleteen]

u could run sli in the future if u had a 6800u

no man hes going to buy an AGP, is there goign to be an AGP ali board out, i HIGHLY doubt it.

[kryptobs2000]

Im looking at keeping this whole thing as close to 450.00-500.00 as possible. Buying a new Nforce4 Board brings my budget for a new card down considerably. Therefore, its AGP only for me.

As for the rest, My next upgrade will be going to PCI-e and a new card, but thats probably going to be christmas of '06 for me. Wait wait wait... hold the bus. You are getting a nf4 board and wanting an AGP solution? NF4 is PCI-E only. If you want AGP go NF3, if you want an NF4 Solution, check out the x800xl(if you can find one) or x800xt, those should hold you over for a while. Also I'm figuring you have 19 inch or smaller LCD? If so you're highest res would be 1280x1024, so x800xt would do you plenty fine for at least a year I'd say. If you are using CRT, then nm on the resolution, but still I'd think those would do you fine. You can also get 6800GT PCI-E in your price range.

No he meant, 'If I go nforce 4, I'd have to get a sli card and I cannot afford to do that now, so no nforce 4 for me' I think thats what he's saying anyways

[c42]

Ahh ok, my bad

[Joe_Beasley]

Yes, going nforce4 would be using some of my video card money on the motherboard, therefore, taking away the 500 bucks i have to spend on the card. I'd only have like 250 left for a card. Not to mention, i built this new PC mid december, so i dont think im ready to give it up just yet...lol.

Im going AGP now, and then in a year or two i'll look at how its performing and upgrade accordingly at that time. This will be on air, no water cooling.

Right now its a toss up between the X800XT and the 6800Ultra. can;t say im leaning either way now. I guess i'll see whats in stock when its time to order, and make a decision from there. I like the 16 pipelines that both cards have, and i must admit im still optimistic that some games will use the shader 3 that the 6800's take advantage of.

I just don;t want to be 8 months down the road saying "I wish i would have gotten that card instead". Thats all.

[reject]

6800 is goood for 03 but amd is bad. the ideal setup is prescott/6800 or a64/x800, benching wise
but you said for games, and i think nvidia is better. IMO better image quality
sucks about PEG cause all the new chipsets will have it, like the sonoma :(

[Joe_Beasley]

Still a tough choice for sure. Both cards will surely have games "designed" to run better on their hardware. I guess what im looking for is the card that runs the best on the game designed for the other type of card. That would probably truly be the best way to go. Seems like the Nvidia performs better on ATI branded games than the ATI does in the "the way its meant to be played" games.

Tough one for sure. But leaning towards that 6800 Ultra right now.

[echow87]

how about a 6800U OC....you can hit 500/1300 easily with better cooling on it....

stock 6800U OC is 425/1100 if I am not mistaken :)

[kryptobs2000]

I don't think the BFG cards clock any better than other brands, and unless your willing to mod a heatsink, which may not be a big deal to some, it might to him, there's not a whole lot of good aftermarket coolers out there for the 6800 series.

[Butcher_]

Note wow is a twimtbp game, so that may be a factor in favour of nvidia.

[HaLDoL]

You have to see HDR in farcry and Ridd-ick (that name is censored, hence the -). You'll have no doubts after that. Go for the ultra.

[Der_KHAN]

but doesnt the x800 support hdr too?

[kryptobs2000]

yeah, it does, but not in FarCry or Rid:banana::banana::banana::banana: lol, it's capable of doing hdr, but for w/e reason it never does.

edit: why are bananas in the name lol, thats pretty :banana:

What if someones name is
:banana: :rolleyes:

[kickassclone]

You have to see HDR in farcry and Ridd-ick (that name is censored, hence the -). You'll have no doubts after that. Go for the ultra.

my 68ultra did 480 with a dd nv6800 waterblock and a crappy l35 hydor on a double block loop with a tdx and only a single heatercore. Temps never went above 55c load and boy did the frames fly. I took off the dd nv6800 and I am going to try one of the new maze 4 blocks and see how that goes. I would definitley recommend an ultra to anyone. Over an ati800xt . I could have bought any card I wanted and I switched from a 98pro to a 68ultra and I am very happy I did. I will buy whatever card is the best. I was going to buy an ati xtpe but at the time I was ready to buy no one had any xtpe's around so I bought an ultra and that costed ati a customer. Now ati comes out with this 850 rev crap that don't even beat my oced ultra and they went to two slots. Ati is floundering with that card.

[kryptobs2000]

my 68ultra did 480 with a dd nv6800 waterblock and a crappy l35 hydor on a double block loop with a tdx and only a single heatercore. Temps never went above 55c load and boy did the frames fly. I took off the dd nv6800 and I am going to try one of the new maze 4 blocks and see how that goes. I would definitley recommend an ultra to anyone. Over an ati800xt . I could have bought any card I wanted and I switched from a 98pro to a 68ultra and I am very happy I did. I will buy whatever card is the best. I was going to buy an ati xtpe but at the time I was ready to buy no one had any xtpe's around so I bought an ultra and that costed ati a customer. Now ati comes out with this 850 rev crap that don't even beat my oced ultra and they went to two slots. Ati is floundering with that card.

I love my 6800 GT, but have you actually tried a x800xt in defense? I mean, of course your going to love the ultra compared to the 9800pro.


Now ati comes out with this 850 rev crap that don't even beat my oced ultra

I agree it's pretty crap, they should have just not made the x800xtpe vaperware in the first place, but it is faster than an ultra, just as the x800xtpe is faster than an ultra, in some cases, depends on what games/benchmarks you look at.

[Celcius]

Since your going to be playing games, its also worth noting that radeons do better at higher resolutions.

[HaLDoL]

yeah, it does, but not in FarCry or Rid:banana::banana::banana::banana: lol, it's capable of doing hdr, but for w/e reason it never does.

edit: why are bananas in the name lol, thats pretty :banana:

What if someones name is
:banana: :rolleyes:

ATi can do HDR, but not in the way nvidia can. Nvidia HDR requires FP16 an hardware blending. 2 features ATi doesn't have.

[kryptobs2000]

Do you mean FPP32? Cause ati dosn't have support for 16fpp, but it does for 24fpp, which is capable of everything you can do in 16fpp and more. If it were using 32fpp though, ati's out of luck, but it can still do it, they'd just have to make it use 24fpp and it'd look worse.

[Joe_Beasley]

lol..Its a tough one when both choices are good isn't it?.

One thing i do like from working with the 6800 series is the Nvidia drivers and coolbits. I enjoy the temp monitor and the ease of overclocking.

But i can't base the decision on the interface, because i'll spend 10 minutes in it, and hours on end gaming when its done. I've done so much research im blue in the face, and i have yet to find a "clear" winner betwee the two. Some say the future is better for Nvidia and games, others say X800XT is better now. If that is true, im going 6800, because the future titles are the ones im looking at more than my current lineup. But then i see the X800XT does better at 1600x1200, which is my standard resolution...Ah, its all so frustrating...lol

[Der_KHAN]

One thing i do like from working with the 6800 series is the Nvidia drivers and coolbits. I enjoy the temp monitor and the ease of overclocking.

speaking of ease of overclocking.
with an x800 you can use atitool to automatically find artifact-free clocks.
very nice feature.

(just wanna add that im not an ati-fanboy :D
but since the fx-cards im not so much into nvidia anymore)

[kryptobs2000]

ati has a temp monitor too. but nvidia drivers own ati drivers. during the 9700 and 9800 pro, and with the crap fx's I didn't think there was any point going nvidia, but with the 9800xt and crappy driver release after crappy driver release, and the 6800 definatly a huge improvement over the fx, i decided to go with nvidia this gen.

[Joe_Beasley]

Ive used ATItool. I didnt like it much for some reason. Ive been using rage3dTweak instead.

As for the temp monitor, that is something good to know. thanks.

[Der_KHAN]

ati has a temp monitor too. but nvidia drivers own ati drivers. during the 9700 and 9800 pro, and with the crap fx's I didn't think there was any point going nvidia, but with the 9800xt and crappy driver release after crappy driver release, and the 6800 definatly a huge improvement over the fx, i decided to go with nvidia this gen.

what is crappy about ati drivers?