Why all that failure unlock X800 pipes

[Dr. Kohl]

I've seen a lot of discussion about the chance to succeed with a hardware mod to unlock missing pixel pipelines on X800 PRO depending on manufacturing date and serial of GPU and a number of hints how to perform it. A lot of information and even some polls exist about the "how to do" and about the success of this operation. Obviously there is no chance to unlock newer generation of x800 PRO (and X800 SE) with (for example) conductive paint (hardware mod).

Nearly noone seems to ask for the reason: Why is that much failure out there in unlocking the missing pipes for the X800 PRO/SE? WHY??

The facts so far:

X800 XT(PE):
16 pipelines, 6 Vertex Shader, 256 MB GDDR3, 256 bit bandwidth, no laser cut near GPU, nothing to desire/unlock for the lucky owner :p:

X800 PRO VIVO:
12 pipelines, 6 Vertex shader, 256 MB GDDR3, 256 bit bandwidth, no laser cut near GPU, missing 4 Pipelines to be unlocked by software mod (bios) :)

X800 PRO:
12 pipelines, 6 Vertex shader, 256 MB GDDR3, 256 bit bandwidth, a laser cut near GPU in upper right corner on left side of "center dot", only on a few GPUs manufactured before week 16/2004 the missing 4 pipelines may (??) be unlocked with conductive paint (hardware mod), no success at all for newer X800 PRO, (of course) no software mod available to unlock pixelpipelines :(

X800 SE (that's what I own):
8 pipelines, 6 Vertex shader, 256 MB GDDR3, 256 bit bandwidth, a laser cut near GPU in upper right corner but on right (!) side of "center dot", no information about success to unlock missing 8 pipelines with hardware mod (tryed it very conscientious myself but without success, GPU is 0429AA), (of course) no software mod available to unlock pixelpipelines :mad:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: WHY DOES THE HARDWARE MOD NOT WORK FOR NEWER GENERATION OF X800 GPUs?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let's do a little brainstorming on this. Every remark, answere or question is welcome.

My personal thoughts an questions on this:

a) It seems that all the different X800 GPUs XT, PRO and SE are "physically" the same but with a different number of pixel pipelines switched off.
b) ATI performed the laser cut on X800 PRO and SE surely not for nonsense, moreover they vary the cut from left to right side of "center dot" depending on modell (SE or PRO). Does it mean that laser cut on the left side of "center dot" disables only 4 pipelines while the cut on the right side disables 8 of them?
c) How deep is the laser cut? How many layers (and within conductors) are destroyed?
d) Is there maybe another "lock" in addition to the laser cut on newer X800? If so, why is ATI still performing the laser cut?

or the worst case

e) Is it possible that the laser cut is not intend to destroy but to keep pixel pipes alive during production? ATI may put some voltage on the 5 dots on any SE or PRO to burn/fry a certain group of pixel pipelines. Only the laser cut may save 8 or even 12 of them from being killed like an open switch. :eek:

Thanks for reading that much!!

[bias_hjorth]

Welcome to Xtreme mr. Kohl :toast:

Interesting theory. I especially never thought about your "E" solution my self. And that could be a issue.
That could perhaps spare ATI for another processing machine and could perhaps be easily abducted into one of the machine´s.

Interesting.

[Ref]

VERY interesting theory ... anyone willing to put some voltage into those 5 dots :stick:

[boshi]

VERY interesting theory ... anyone willing to put some voltage into those 5 dots :stick:

maybe in 5 years when they arent worth crap.

a bit OT: do all the vivos flash properly?

[bias_hjorth]

All newer vivos are up until now flashable :)

[Tatewaki]

you guys need to understand how the system works, in order to understand why flashing works at the beginning and getting less sucessful now

1) highest grade of chips are marked for XT PE use, those boards that failed as XT PE may get sold as XT/PRO VIVO. that's why XT/PRO VIVO has best chance of flashing to XT PE

2) next grade of chips found to be slightly less in performance are marked for XT use, those boards that failed as XT may get sold as PRO/SE. Thus, PRO non-VIVO now has lesser chance of flashing to XT PE

3) Then the last (or perhaps 2nd last) grade of chips are marked for PRO use, those failed may get sold as SE or base model. Given this, PRO and SE are almost impossible to be flashed to XT PE, you'll need to be extremely lucky to be able to find one and flash it successfully

The reason VIVO card have best flashing results is becasue those boards came from case (1). Non VIVO ones are mostly from case (2). All XT PE are VIVO, you see the trend now?

As far as the laser cut goes, I highly suspect that's the case. Imagine why modify failed chips with laser cut, then sell it at even lower cost? To make the chip work like XT PE, XT, PRO, or any model, all it takes is the BIOS. If the BIOS is changed, the chip will work as per the BIOS says. When your flashing fails, that means BIOS tells the chip to perform a task, the chip cannot comply because it is defective

[Dr. Kohl]

TATEWAKI

...think we already now how the system works: sleep, eat, watch TV, sleep again...lol

It's without doubt that there are some GPUs which fail for XT PE use and being sold as lower versions. Also without doubt there are some (maybe a lot more than you would believe) GPUs which are sold far beyond potentiell to fullfill the markets needs. (For example my X800 SE is OC at 540 core/560 mem, no voltage mod, simple standard SE air cooler (so far) -> perfect results)

From former Radeon 9500 and 9800SE we know that unlocking defective pipes may result in some artifacts but anyhow: It IS POSSIBLE -> you can at least switch even "bad" pipes back on! And if you are lucky (like a lot fellows, including me) afterwords you got a full set of perfect working pipes. But this seems to be impossible for any (newer) x800 GPU with a laser cut cause the pipes are physically disabled. Even if you close the laser gap with conductive paint -> No go!

A bios flash, as you mentioned, won't even be necessary if you would be able to reverse the "physical damage" that disabled (or maybe destroyed?!?) the some of the pixel pipelines. And that is what this thread should be about:

Why can't we reverse/repair the laser cut? Is it only the "gap" that we can't close or is it something else??

O.K.? Get the point?

[Knor31]

Things to remember:

I'm sure ATI learned from their fault whit the 9800SE etc. So now they don't just only deactivate the pipe's in software but also is deactivating in hardware.

My first thought was out to the AMD Duron Applebred whit his special coating wich should be removed before closing the L-bridges, maybye ATI used the same kind of chemical stuff on their cards...

Only then there is one thing i just don't understand; voltmodding the card seems to be so easy, but did they make flashing the card only more difficult.... that's a kind of wierd...

[don_vercetti]

Ati don't really care if you voltmod...it would need to be a heavily oc'd X800 pro that beats an x800 xt. However, unlock the pipes and it's a whole new ball game. Also, it's hard to stop a voltmod. And many people may buy an Ati card BECAUSE it's so easy to voltmod, and modify.

Nvidia made the mistake of hardware masking the pipelines on their 6800nu (which i have) so i (and may others) have all 16 pipes.

However, is it possible that Ati have moved to a new board which physically only has 12 pipes, for the x800 pro? nvidia have been doing that, and it would make sense wouldn't it.