How about a mini-fridge? [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

Judaeus Apella

01-12-2005, 12:57 AM

You know, like the kind they have in hotel rooms with a small freezer at the top. If I put some 120mm radiators together in a row with 120mm fans at eather end, then drill two small holes in the side just big enough to tightly squeeze two tubes through and another tiny hole for the fan wires, how well do you guys think that would perform?

The great thing about it is, I could have a place to keep drinks and snacks! LOL

Judaeus Apella

01-12-2005, 01:30 PM

You really think it would work well?

Hmmmm...... now I just need to figure out who sells them. Im sure those hotels have to go through someone who supplies that kind of stuff. Probably cant just pick one off the shelf...... Any suggestions?

Judaeus Apella

01-12-2005, 02:00 PM

Ok, I just talked to this guy thats helping us fix up our house. He called them a Dormatory Refridgerator and told me I can probably get one at Price Club! I'll see what else I can find out and post more info

Blergo

01-12-2005, 02:16 PM

it will work. it wont really work well though. or atleast when i put radiators in a fridge with fans circulateing the air around the fridge it didnt work too great. had to use a res aswell inside the fridge, even then it wasnt great.
owen

Judaeus Apella

01-12-2005, 02:20 PM

Hmmmm..... what if I froze a bunch of copper piping in a large block of water? Also remember this isnt a fridge, this is a freezer.

BTW: Whats an Aswell?

DragonFire

01-12-2005, 02:35 PM

I think he ment he had to use a res "as well" to get some what good temps....

Anyways, The problem with minifrig's / minifreezers is that they werent built to run 24/7. If your running an AMD XP/A64 or P4 you might as well forget it.

I think what would happen with 24/7 uses is the compressor wont be able to keep up and die, once dead the air inside will heat up real quick causing your water to get even hotter then it would with just air cooling.

Blergo

01-12-2005, 02:55 PM

it will work Ok if you put a fan or tow blowing on the condenser. But much better of makeing one out of an A/C or something :)

Judaeus Apella

01-12-2005, 03:52 PM

Condenser? Im just using some normal 120mm water radiators, thats it. Nothing fancy. Maybe something like this:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/blicextiidu1.html

The cold air is blown through them with some 120mm AC fans, in turn cooling the water lower than normal.

I was thinking of buying 2 of them and bolting them together with four fans, 2 at either end. Do I have to worry about the fans freezing over or collecting moisture in the motors?

VeryProudOfYa

01-12-2005, 04:32 PM

I have asked this question before.. Cause I own a mini-fridge.. I have been told that those things cant handle the heatload.. But If its a freezer Im sure it could do some damamge to your CPU. in a good way.. lol..

gkiing

01-12-2005, 05:06 PM

It will work, but you will only get around 0c water tempreature, if even that. They don't have the capacity, and are typically 1/20th to 1/10th hp. Better to look for a small chest freezer or built a chiller yourself with a 1/4hp compressor.

VeryProudOfYa

01-12-2005, 05:28 PM

So. What would work.. To make it into a full blow chiller.. With a reservoir and the evap in it and everything.. Or keep the fridge intact and just stick the Heatercore In there.. With 120mm Fans Pushing the air around.. What are exactly talking about doing with it...?

BTW 0C is perfect for me... lol... Im sittin on 35C now.. SO I would love to have 0C... lol..

Wstinkbait

01-12-2005, 07:11 PM

VeryProudOfYa

01-12-2005, 07:28 PM

Thats what I have been told and thought would happen.. I guess itd work if you had a freezer box or something that gets chilly... But not a dormroom fridge.. Good idea though.. I wish itd work, have the beers next to the chiller... lol... even though IM ony 14.. hmm... beers... lol...

gkiing

01-12-2005, 08:39 PM

It will work if you took out the compress and rebuilt the system with another evaporator directly in the reservoir and had a larger forced air cooled condenser, and used r290.

JSU

01-12-2005, 08:41 PM

What about a dual heater core before the fridge? That would basicaly be the same as cooling ambient temp water. You

Wstinkbait

01-13-2005, 04:23 AM

Not really, The water only stays in the fridge for a few seconds and It would take over an hour of the water standing still and the door closed to make any difference.

MaRtIe

01-13-2005, 07:19 AM

i have a fridge evaporator in a water cooling res+anti freeze+coolant and hits -10C non-sealed water res :) VerryProudOfYa, age dont matter bud ;)

Wstinkbait

01-13-2005, 08:17 AM

Yes, That works very nicely for a simple water chiller. After I put the mini-fridge in the trash bin, I also made a chiller from an Old, full size refrigerator / freezer. By submerging the freezer coil in an ice chest of anti-freeze and putting the radiator in there with it. You must insulate your water lines to do this. It will take a 1/4 hp compressor or larger to get good results.

MaRtIe

01-13-2005, 08:58 AM

i agree.. these are nice for simple designs.. now ime looking for a bigger fridge :p:

Judaeus Apella

01-13-2005, 08:25 PM

How about a triple 120mm fan Black Ice Radiator (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/blicextiiitr.html) in the freezer section of this mini-fridge (http://www.brilliantstore.com/kitchen/refrigerators_sanyo_sr2570m.htm), and have that cool my OCed processor, OCed PNY 6800 128mb 8x, and anything else that needs it. How far would this get me?

gkiing

01-13-2005, 09:17 PM

If you want to use a mini fridge to cool your computer it would be best to dig out the evaporator and submerge it in a reservoir. If you use a radiator in the fridge you are adding the heat transfer through the air and through the radiator to the liquid.

Judaeus Apella

01-13-2005, 10:08 PM

Whatsa whosits? Take it easy man, Im a newb! :D Can you expand on that?

Wstinkbait

01-13-2005, 10:50 PM

No, A mini fridge with a compressor the size of a grapefruit will not cool or even make a difference in a water cooling loop. Belive me I have tried. If it takes a 6 pack of beer over an hour to get cold just sitting there in the dark, then pumping in warm water will never cool. As a result the tiny compressor evently overheats due to being maxed out for hours and destroys itself. submerging the evap has same result. It will chill the standing water overnight but as soon as you turn on the pump the water will heat up again. Dont waste your time and money. Read the water chiller forms on this site for info on how to make one that works.

Judaeus Apella

01-13-2005, 11:15 PM

Im not doing the same thing you are.... I want to push cooled air through a 120mm radiator that I'll put in the freezer bay, not have the fridge cool some giant tank of water. The air in there is gonna be a lot cooler than the air out here. I was also thinking of cooling the water in stages. First the water could be cooled normally in the room temperature air, then the halfway cooled water could be cooled even more in the freezer. I don't think thats a half bad idea.

f00t

01-14-2005, 03:55 AM

No, It wont work, I've tried it. The fridge is designed to cool small loads in a sealed environment for long periods of time. If you pump warm moving water through it will heat up the fridge faster than it can cool. I even tried submerging the evaporator in a large reservoir inside the fridge and after several minutes the water gets warm and stays that way.
http://members.cox.net/wesc502/refer2.JPG

same thing happened when i tried it last year. the water just git warm and made the fridge work overtime. the fridge got damn hot after an hour and cooling was worse than with a single chevette heatercore. only bonus was that it was a bit quieter than a ton of fans spinning

HARDCORECLOCKER

01-14-2005, 05:04 AM

:confused: Hm, intresting. What about this:

Using the mini refrigerator as a producer of cold air, cutting a hole in it and place there a 120mm fan, connecting the fan with a tube to the front of my condenser of the MACH II GT. Insulate all.

So the incoming air will not have room temps anymore and maybe the phase change will cool down some more.

But how about the refrigerator? Will it survive?

:toast:

caLume

01-14-2005, 08:01 AM

a fridge isnt designed to absorb much heat.
its made for keepin´ some notheatingthings cool.

MaRtIe

01-14-2005, 08:07 AM

using a a fridge just simply wont work unless u strip the evaperator out and rebuild it :)

VeryProudOfYa

01-14-2005, 12:11 PM

That idea was cool about the fans pushin cold air out.. Straight onto the Heatercore.. Might drop the temps a tad bit.. Not much I suppose.. Not sure though, awesome idea though..

Judaeus Apella

01-14-2005, 12:39 PM

This is my idea.

Radiator #1 cools water to some degree using room temperature air.

Radiator #2 cools water further, using cooler air in mini-fridge.

This doesn't work the fridge as hard, and cools the water even more than the mini-fridge could in a single stage cooling set up with only one radiator inside the freezer.

VeryProudOfYa

01-14-2005, 12:42 PM

Yea.. I have thought of this also.. Was going to do it until parents stepped in.. lol..

In theory it should work.. Check how much heat your CPU puts out..? Mine doesnt put out any and I dont think I would have a problem with it.. But not sure, what CPU you got?

Good Luck.. Peace

f00t

01-14-2005, 02:52 PM

just remembered this (http://www.overclockers.com/articles975/)

migh be a little helpful

gkiing

01-14-2005, 03:20 PM

If you want to do some DIY cooling without getting into the phase-change assembly an air conditioner is your best choice. Either to chill water or blow cold air into your case.

Judaeus Apella

01-14-2005, 03:23 PM

LOL. Thats a little hardcore compared to what Im doing. I'm only putting 3 tiny holes in the fridge.... he built his whole dammed computer in one. ROFLOL Im not gonna go that far, trust me! But yes, I will read over it before I do anything and make sure I don't do something stupid or push the fridge too hard.

I think I got a pump picked out too! Its nice and small, innexpencie, matches the colors of my system, and somoene recommended it. Either one of these two:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=HD09202
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=HD10141

Do I need the extra power, or will the first one be fine?

gkiing

01-14-2005, 03:37 PM

Mini fridges wont work. Period.

Judaeus Apella

01-14-2005, 03:40 PM

Oops, looks like we posted at the same time. How would I use an air conditioner? Have it cool an enclosed, insolated space where the radiators are?

BTW, that animation is halarious! Where did you get it?

f00t

01-14-2005, 04:00 PM

you wouldn't need a rad. but your right about the enclosed space. the easyest way is to build some sort of reservoir around the evaporator of the ac and use the water from that.

read the sticky by pimpsho and see what you think

Wstinkbait

01-14-2005, 04:06 PM

This is my idea.

Radiator #1 cools water to some degree using room temperature air.

Radiator #2 cools water further, using cooler air in mini-fridge.
.

It don't work that way. The water in the entire loop will settle at the same temp at all points. The water is moving at ft/sec and does not stay at any point long enough to measure any temp difference

Judaeus Apella

01-14-2005, 04:32 PM

I'd be afraid to do something like that without someone there to explain it to me. Allot of those guys had somoene to teach them or they do it for a living... or anyway, thats what someone told me. That might be a little out of my league, though I want to do it. I dont know if I have the know how or anyone local who can help me out without charging me for their time. Too bad none of you who know how to do this, live in VA. :(

I would love do do that if there was a way to enclose it so it looks nice. I cant have something ugly with all its parts out in the open. The room this is going to be in has to look professional.

Good news though! I ordered my case, storage hd, a Plextor, Win XP w/ SP2, and a good cmf 120mm Blue LED Fan for the front intake of the case.

MaRtIe

01-14-2005, 04:49 PM

ime 16, never done sub-0 cooling before with a compressor. and now ime running my winchester + water cooling with -15C water running thro it.

edited for you guys :) my english is bad :p:

Judaeus Apella

01-14-2005, 05:22 PM

.......What the hell did you just say? :confused:

shadowing

01-14-2005, 05:45 PM

I dunno if a mini fridge would work. From all the facts I learned so far, I think it wouldn't work. The mini fridge only has cooling abilities to chill food, but not high heat CPU's and GPU's.

MaRtIe

01-15-2005, 02:44 AM

i edited my post.. sorry for that my friend :D

the

01-16-2005, 06:56 PM

I too have tried something similar to this. i caulked up a samll deep freezer and put anitrfreeze right in it and the water got to -22C andthe cpu on to 2C :<

MaRtIe

01-16-2005, 07:39 PM

ohh that sucks.... better luck next time ;)

Judaeus Apella

01-16-2005, 10:45 PM

I think Im gonna do somethin with an AC unit. You know, modify it to cool the PC, but not enough to get condensation, just enough to get the temp down nice and cool. Im thinking of doing something that combindes air conditioning the system and still using a water radiator that uses the cool air that flows into the system, which is recycled back through the air conditioner. I dont feel like sitting in an ice cold room, so Im not blasting cold air into the room, and using an intake from a seperate side. Any recommendations or advice? A spacific model thats easy to modify so it fits fan ducts perhaps?

Wstinkbait

01-17-2005, 06:08 AM

There was a thread on this some time back and now I cant't find it. But it seemed to work very well and peeps were getting case temps of near 0c. Condensation is not a problem because the cases maintain postive air presure so no outside air can get in to bring moisture.

KaptCrunch

02-07-2005, 07:04 AM

better off getting an apartment size freezer chest them dorms coolers can't keep up

f00t

02-08-2005, 05:34 PM

this is what i was looking for and finally found it:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips798/

Wstinkbait

02-08-2005, 06:44 PM

I'm skeptical of the success. First of all he is only cooling one CPU block, And the lack of data and measured temperatures is suspicious. He clams the water is near freezing toward the end but notice he does not have insulated hoses. This clam I seriously doubt. In all I would think that huge contraption would work about as well as a good rad, would not support multiple blocks or pelts.

matt9669

02-09-2005, 10:02 AM

Mini-fridges radiate heat from the side panels (that's why the manual says keep it away from walls). They don't have a separate air-cooled condensor like the refigeration units we use. If you were to blow cool air over the entire mini-fridge, you might have some results . . .

Still, you have to realize - a mini-fridge is not designed to cool any kind of load. You put in cases of beer - err, water - and they get cold, they don't fight back :D

Think of the performance as 0W @ ~10C and you'll see why it would be very difficult for these to work in any load-based cooling setup.

gkiing

02-09-2005, 05:24 PM

The mini fridges/bar fridges I have seen have a small static condenser on the back much like on a regular fridge. If they don't have that, the condenser will be a coil underneath the back of the mini fridge by the compressor. It's not hidden in the walls.. that would make the fridge do nothing, due to the fact that it would be trying to reject heat into what it is trying to cool. I know for a fact that they have air cooled condensers of some sort.

Wstinkbait

02-09-2005, 05:40 PM

The older style did have condenser coils like larger fridges. The Whirlpool I was trying to use did not. Some sort of heatsink contraption attached to the return line was mounted to the inside of the rear wall and it got very warm in that area. Also only one small tube went to the evap witch was nothing more than the hollow ice tray shelf. I suppose it might have had a cap tube run through the return line. But was basically a POS.

gkiing

02-09-2005, 05:46 PM

unixxx

02-10-2005, 11:47 AM

Are you sure he doesn't mean inside (physically in) the back wall? Then it could conduct heat out through the external metal fridge shell and be insulated from the internal plastic fridge shell.

Wstinkbait

02-10-2005, 03:45 PM

That's exactly what I ment. Only the back outside wall conducts the heat away from the case. There is 2 inches of insulation on the inside wall.