Help Me Please

[DocGolem]

Ok, I want to start this off with a big thank you for everybody who helped me with my wet motherboard situation.

New situation. A friend and I hooked up my chiller to my CPU/GPU yesterday and today. After the minor setback mentioned prior, we encountered something else.

We turned on the chiller and the pump, letting them get about 10 C difference between ambient and the res temps and then turned on the computer. While the computer was on, everything was working fine and the temps continued to drop while using the computer. So I know there isn't a contact problem between the CPU and the block. I don't have a temperature probe on the GPU so I can't say the same.

Anyways, everything was going fine and then all of a sudden, it locked up. Great I'm thinking, my first project in cooling is a failure. What did I get myself into? So it powers down and I sit there thinking about what could have gone wrong. I checked all over for condensation and there was none. The only thing I could think of is that the video card went kaput because of bad contact or something of that nature. I try turning back on the computer as it is just to see if it was a fluke, but I was greeted with a constant beep from the speaker. So I resert CMOS and put in a new video card with the stock HSF. I'm expecting her to pull through here, but I get no such luck. No video shows up. The computer turns on without having any motherboard beeps or anything. I imagine it can't get into Windows because after leaving it on for awhile, it didn't seek the hard drive.

Any ideas to try? I'm not really in the mood to try anything else right now as I'm steaming and probably won't be able to sleep tonight. I don't think it could be condensation because the temperature was only about a 10 C delta between ambient temps and the liquid temps. I had the blocks insulated really well and followed the vr-zone guide on insulating.

Sorry this turned into a book, but from experience it's easier to troubleshoot if you explain what happened in the most detail possible.

Specs are in the sig, Thanks in advance guys. :( :(

[Skip]

was it overclocked when it died? if so how high, voltages, fsb, cpu speed, etc..

[DocGolem]

Nope, just running 3ghz stock.

One thing I don't get is whenever I turned it on for the first time, it said "CPU is unworkable - check the SOFTsomething or other" which means that the CPU somehow changed. When I loaded into Windows, it said the clockspeed was 2993 instead of the normal 3007 that it used to be.

[Skip]

what did the beep code signify, did you look it up online?

[DocGolem]

Here's what they say about my error code I'm hearing.

Continuous Beeping: Memory or video problem

Explanation: The system is producing constant beeping in no specific pattern, or a fast "ringing" sound.

Diagnosis: This is usually caused by a problem with the system memory, or possibly the video card. The memory is more likely--the system complains long and loud if it can't find any usable memory, as there is no way to even start the boot process when this is the case. The motherboard itself could also be the problem.

Recommendation:

* Troubleshoot the system memory.
* Troubleshoot the video card.
* Troubleshoot the motherboard.

So I've tried the video card so far. I'll check out the RAM tomorrow and hopefully I won't have to RMA this board I just got back from RMA around the new years.

Weird thing is that it doesn't beep anymore. It only did the constant beep the one time I tried to boot up after I initially lost the system.

I think I might be better off just getting rid of it and the chiller, I don't think I'm meant for this stuff.

[unixxx]

If there's no hardware damage it sounds like a BIOS problem to me. You might want to check out this page: http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/sb/CS-001485.htm Does your motherboard have a jumper to reset the CMOS or (unlikely) a removable BIOS?

[bam~bam]

as unixxx said, try to clear the cmos

[DocGolem]

Ok guys, I started troubleshooting and put everything back into the computer.

Tried taking out the closest RAM stick and it booted right up. I'm guessing that either that stick was getting some condensation issues or something similar. I'm going to put some dielectric into the RAM sockets and put some more insulation around the socket area.

Thanks for all the help through all of this. I just needed to vent/clear my mind.

[unixxx]

You might want to ask someone more knowledgable about it, but I think you might have conductivity problems if you put dialectric grease in your sockets. And if not you may have resistance problems. The motherboard is designed so that every conducter on any bus is exactly the same length so that every conducter on a certain bus has the same resistance and carries a signal just as fast as the others. If resistance is added at the sockets the singals won't arrive at the same time and you could get performance/stability issues.

[Skip]

well people put dialectric grease in processor sockets no problems at all, but then again those are pins so the contact setup is a little different than ram slots. and if there is resistance problems, then you won't be able to run 1T stably, considering the traces and everything are designed so that everything gets were it needs to be at the same time.

[DocGolem]

Well the thing is that I am chilling the video card too. It uses the same type of connection as the RAM modules do and you have to put dielectric grease in the AGP socket to keep the coldness from going onto the motherboard.

I'm just going to try it.

[dward3]

Put a good amount of dielectric grease in the AGP slot and I heard its a good idea to put sealing string between the base of the AGP slot and motherboard.

Try to post some pics.. so everyone can see what you are doing.

Edit: Posted some links for general reference:

OCTOOLS:
CONDENSATION PREVENTION (http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/socket_condensation/intro.html)
TOTAL CONDENSATION PREVENTION... (http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/condensation/howto.html)

Over-Clock:
How to pelt your Graphics Card (http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=1013)
How to Pelt your Graphics Card [Part II] (http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=997)

[DocGolem]

Thanks for the links dward3, I followed the guide at vr-zone and it is more comprehensive than that and I did everything but apply nail varnish around the socket area. Here's some pictures of what I did for condensation proofing. The one part you won't be able to see is the gasket I made for both the GPU and the CPU. I made a cut out of the socket/core area and made sure that when it gets compressed that there is core contact.

http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/CPUInsulation.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/CPUinsulation2.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/CPUinsulation3.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/CPUinsulation4.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/CPUPWM.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/NBInsulation.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/GPUInsulation.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/GPUInsulation2.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/Overview.jpg
http://www.machlink.com/~docgolem/Overviewclose.jpg

I got the computer to boot up and it was stable for at least 5 minutes before it totally locked up. The CPU temperatures were only at around 11c so it isn't too low. I believe I did a good job of condesation proofing, but I am willing to do it over again if it is the problem of my instability.

I hope everybody is learning from my mistakes :p:

[unixxx]

What kind of foam did you use to insulate the lines and blocks?

[DocGolem]

The pipes are Armaflex pipe insulation that I got at the Home Depot. The blocks are insulated with a combination of plain neoprene I bought from DangerDen and this yellow Armaflex roll that I bought at the Home Depot. It looks pretty good and insulates really well. I have 4 layers on the CPU block and 2 on the GPU.

I'd really like my insulation job better if my computer was cooperating. It sounds like a contact issue with the CPU or condensation problems. I may have to tear it apart unless there's some setting I've forgotten about.

Does anybody have any idea on my stability problems?

[dward3]

Try removing or swapping the Maze4 GPU block with your stock HSF and see if it still locks up after 5 minutes. BTW, nice pics... you must have a nice digital camera.

[Jasonhk]

Your Cooling looks nice and neat well done, Pity you are having problems i don't know what could be wrong i guess condensation

[unixxx]

--- EDIT: Actually, now that I take a closer look it appears to have adhesive backing.

What'd you glue the neopreme down with? It looks like it conforms really well with the block.

[DocGolem]

I'm still getting used to the camera after a few years of having it. It's a Sony DSC-P9, 4 megapixel I believe. I think I'm going to take off the GPU block and see if that's my problem. I'm thinking I did the CPU insulation way too well for it to be locking up on me.

The regular neoprene gaskets that I used around the base of the blocks are held down by the pressure of the mounting of the blocks. My GPU block was made for socket a and I had to get an adapter to get it to fit on the 478. The adapter goes around the CPU socket and happens to have a gap so insulation gets tucked down underneath it really well.

The GPU block is basically the same way. The core is raised off of the PCB so that I just got a piece of neoprene that is compressible enough to give good contact with the core and put it under there.

The neoprene patches that I have came in a roll and one side of it is extremely sticky. If you look at one of the pipes after the GPU block, that's where I had to take off a piece of insulation and it ripped off some of the insulation.

Thanks for the responses guys.

[dward3]

You might want to consider making your own mounting brackets to replace the Dtek WW P4 Adaptor plate. Plus, I noticed on the back of your video card needs some plexiglass to help compress the neoprene down. Home Depot has the 1/4" plexiglass sheets you need. If you need some longer #6 or 6-32 thread rods go to Lowe's. Do the same or do something similar for back of the CPU socket.

Do you have any Down Corning Conformal Coating or Liquid Electrical Tape?

[Skip]

very tidy work there, maybe you should try seal string.

[DocGolem]

Good ideas dward3. If this doesn't work when I use another graphics card, I'll definately use the conformal coating around the socket. I assumed that the pressure from the mounting plate would be able to create a good enough seal.

--EDIT--

Well tried the other video card and it's not booting up again. I'm going to take everything apart and clean it all up and make sure it boots up and runs fine with air cooling. If that works I'm going to reattempt the insulation and I'll take some step by step pictures for you guys.

[unixxx]

I don't know if you've also added anything else to your power supply that would suck more power, but a quirky computer (especially during boot up) is a classic sign of a faulty power supply. Your best bet is probably to tear the whole system down and assemble only the basic components needed to run it: mobo, processor, one stick of known good RAM, and a cheap video card. Then slowly add components, running and rebooting the computer a few times between each addition. Do all of this with standard air cooling and with your motherboard out of the PC case if possible, as cases have been known the cause shorts which can cause strange results. Once everything is working in and out of the case then try to reinstall the phase change cooling. Also, water, especially deionized isn't a really great conductor, especially at the low current and voltages a motherboard uses. There have been reports of people actually running computers submerged in deionized water before. If possible you might want to use deionized water in your loop if you're not all ready. Good luck, I hope you get this working, the setup looks awesome.

[DocGolem]

Nothing added to the system since I put the chiller on. I just bought the OCZ 420w powerstream a month or so ago so I know it's good. But I'll try another PSU.

I started troubleshooting and it's about as random as a lightning strike. One stick of RAM, two sticks, it doesn't matter. I think all of the planets have to be perfectly lined up for it to start up. Even when it starts up I don't have ethernet connection. It was doing this before I hooked up the liquid cooling, so I'm sure it's the motherboard.

[Blergo]

this might sound stupid but check in the bios asumeing you can get there and make sure there isnt anything stupid going on, especially check pci/agp speed is set to 33/66 and not auto, i had a few motherboards that messed me around when i tried to o/c with it set to auto and one (dfi lanparty pro875b) that still messed around at default speeds untill i set the speeds manually, took me a few weeks to work that one out..lol.. anythign is worth a try thouh :)
owen

[unixxx]

As you noted above, if it's still acting screwing after swapping out all of the components then it sounds like a motherboard problem. I'd try resetting the CMOS and if that doesn't work then try to get it to boot at least once to a BIOS flashing utility and update the BIOS. If it still doesn't work I'd replace the mobo.

[DocGolem]

Thanks for the tips unixxx and blergo. I got it to boot into windows once and flashed it to the latest BIOS and nothing has changed. I'm guessing this board just wasn't cut to do anything right.

I got this back from RMA a month or so ago and haven't had time to test its overclocking abilities. Hopefully it wasn't a good board.

I'll try this again whenever I can grow the balls back to insulate it all over again.

[Blergo]

just a thought, but did you have a leak with this board? if so what coolant were you useing? i found that when my first watercooling setup leaked i couldnt get the board to even power on even after a week in the airing cupboard, i was useing a mix of antifreeze and water in that watercooling, i had to soak the board in denatured alcohol and then shove it back in the airing cupboard and then it came back to life first try. i came to the conclusion that the antifreeze and water after they evaporated must have left some deposits on the board that were shorting it out. :) worth a try if your really stuck.
owen

[Skip]

he said it did leak, but it wasnt on when it happened and he let it dry. its possible that maybe it wasnt completely dry and something got messed up.

[DocGolem]

Yea i gave it a thorough drenching of isopropyl alcohol around the affected area and let that evaporate and it still had the problems.

I don't think it had much to do with the liquid on it. The board was flaking out on my before I started the chilled cooling.

Thanks for the help guys :toast:

[Skip]

RMA, thats all i can think of i guess.