R404a vs. R507 vs. R410a vs. mix of them

[SoundWave]

I want my Mach II unit regassed. I have a guy that's gonna do it for me.

I have spent some time reading several posts, both in here and or other forums, but still have my doubts on what gas I should go with.

What gas will be the best choice?
R404a
R507
R410a

I know the R404a works great on the kompressor, and R507 just as well. Whats the difference in tempetures on R404a and R507, and is R507 a better choice?
Will R507 be harder on the kompressor, and do you have to run the fans at greater speeds to dicipate the heat?

Do you have to run some sort of load to prevent iceing?

I would like a system that isn't TOO noisy, so I don't wanna run the fans on high. I can accept the fans running on normal.

The captube has to be lenghtend with R404a, but how about with R507? And is there any difference in performance wether it is lenghtend 1,5m or 2,0m?

And what about R410a. Is it recommenable? Can you regas the kompressor with a mixture of these gasses?

Hope you guys can answer some or all of my questions :) I'll post more questions as I come to think of them.

[Malachia]

instead i wanted to know haw many grams i must put in a mach II GT, because i know that them are -0.1bar at 72F but now here in the place where i work there are 15° :D

[SoundWave]

I think there's about 50g of R404a in a GT.

[Malachia]

I think there's about 50g of R404a in a GT.


i cannot think, i must know exactly how many they are...

[SoundWave]

Yes, well that isn't what I want to know with this thread. Regassing it isn't the big deal for me. It's the type of gas and if I should go with a mixture. Please post your own thread if you want the exact amount.

Guys, I got a PM from a friendly Dane, and he suggested that I go with 80/20 R507/R410A. What do you say about that?

[fatty]

Mine says 64 grams of r404a

Also I modded a stock mach 2 with r507 it runs 10 degrees C colder than my mach2 gt the gt has extra cap tube however my mach2 did not have the cap tube mod I have not tried 410a

[SoundWave]

Mine says 64 grams of r404a

Also I modded a stock mach 2 with r507 it runs 10 degrees C colder than my mach2 gt the gt has extra cap tube however my mach2 did not have the cap tube mod I have not tried 410a

Yes fatty, I have already seen your threads :banana:
http://www.extremeprometeia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1352
http://www.extremeprometeia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1223

Any change in fan speed after regassing?

[fatty]

After r507 in the mach2 you need to run the fans on turbo this is due to the extra heat generated by the compressor if you want quiet then go for 404a as thats whats in the gt and you can run the fans in normal or low no problems :D

[masterofpuppets]

The GT doesn't have an extra capillary tube. It's resized.

[SoundWave]

Okay, I'll take that into mind before I get it regassed.

What about the lenght of the captube? Any difference in performance wether it's 1,5 or 2,0m?

[SoundWave]

The GT doesn't have an extra capillary tube. It's resized.

What about your Prometeia Mach II (captube mod, R408a charged)? How's that running, and did you lenghtend your captube?

[Epsilon]

The captube has to be lenghtend with R404a, but how about with R507? And is there any difference in performance wether it is lenghtend 1,5m or 2,0m?


No, do NOT lengthen the captube. I am in a group with 4 ppl over hear in the forums (minstry of overclocking, the contest site) and 3 of us have encountered the limits of the standard captube sizing. With refills to r507, the capacity grows. But even then, we come to a point that the temperatures are skyrocketing due to a lack of capacity. That is with standard captubing!. When lengthening the captube, the capacity will be even less.

So i recommend that you do not lengthen the captube. U will need that capacity. If not now, u will in the future :)

[SoundWave]

With lenghtening the captube I was thinking more on the R404a mod. You don't recommend that either?

[Epsilon]

The capacity of r404a is even less than r507 (allthough it is only a few %)

so no :)

You will need it :D

[SoundWave]

I don't get that. Why will I need it? Most people do the cap-mod when regassing with R404a.

[fatty]

The cap tube mod I think is for pressure releif on the compressor as far as i know

[chilly1]

I don't weigh the charge.
1) remove the R134a charge, 2) I install a new filter drier and 12 inches of 3/16 copper pipe as a strain relief on the compressor discharge, 3) pressure with dry nitrogen for leak test, 4) relieve pressure and pull a triple vacume 5) using R507 I static charge with gas to 30 psig (2 Bar) 6) I start the system and let it run and add gas until it reaches 4 inches of vacume (-.1 bar) 7) Run for 15 min with a temperprobe on it while monitoring it your temperature should stabilize at around -50 to -54 C this is the bets capacity point for CPU cooling if you want to cool a gpu remove a little gas from here. to 5 inches of vacume unloaded.

When using R404 liquid charge and make sure to add only a little refrigerant at first as it is easy toovercharge this way, then proceed as in the R507 but flash a little liquid in your guages at a time to charge.

I also don't lengthen the capillary tube, and R402 has about 5% more capacity and a couple degrees colder than R507.
R410 is not a good option even as an addin. you gain a few degrees in temperature and sacrifice capacity.

[SoundWave]

I don't weigh the charge.
1) remove the R134a charge, 2) I install a new filter drier and 12 inches of 3/16 copper pipe as a strain relief on the compressor discharge, 3) pressure with dry nitrogen for leak test, 4) relieve pressure and pull a triple vacume 5) using R507 I static charge with gas to 30 psig (2 Bar) 6) I start the system and let it run and add gas until it reaches 4 inches of vacume (-.1 bar) 7) Run for 15 min with a temperprobe on it while monitoring it your temperature should stabilize at around -50 to -54 C this is the bets capacity point for CPU cooling if you want to cool a gpu remove a little gas from here. to 5 inches of vacume unloaded.

When using R404 liquid charge and make sure to add only a little refrigerant at first as it is easy toovercharge this way, then proceed as in the R507 but flash a little liquid in your guages at a time to charge.

I also don't lengthen the capillary tube, and R402 has about 5% more capacity and a couple degrees colder than R507.
R410 is not a good option even as an addin. you gain a few degrees in temperature and sacrifice capacity.

Thanks for the response.

Can it be filled with only R402, or is that as a secondary gas? And what about heat with R402 vs. R404a or R507?

[chilly1]

402 straight is also a r502 replacment as is 404 and 507, it has a greater capacity 5% than the others as well as a 3 degree advantage over 507 at the same load.

[Malachia]

ok, i must search r402 :D

it's more expensive than r404a???

[SoundWave]

402 straight is also a r502 replacment as is 404 and 507, it has a greater capacity 5% than the others as well as a 3 degree advantage over 507 at the same load.

But wont the disadvantage with R402 be, that I'll have to run the fans on turbo because of the extra heat the kompressor produces?

So regassing with R402 is just as regassing with R507/R404a? No captube mod

1) Remove the R134a charge
2) Install a new filter drier and 12 inches of 3/16 copper pipe as a strain relief on the compressor discharge
3) Pressure with dry nitrogen for leak test
4) Relieve pressure and pull a triple vacume
5) Using R402 static charge with gas to 30 psig (2 Bar)
6) Start the system and let it run and add gas until it reaches 4 inches of vacume (-.1 bar)
7) Run for 15 min with a temperprobe on it while monitoring it your temperature should stabilize at around -50 to -54 C this is the bets capacity point for CPU cooling

Or should it stabilize at a lower temperature?

[Malachia]

hello guys, sorry for upping an old 3d :(

i have here another mach to mod :(

this time my friend give me manometers in MPa, how mani MPa are -0.1 bar???

i was thinkink to add a little of r410, what do you think???

[Malachia]

ok done, 1MPa are 10bar....

[JSU]

ok alot have peopla haved spewed on this thread (sorry for the language but iam a bit grumpy this morning). r404a has a higher capcity than r507 but has a slightly lower temp. r404a vs. r507 will not make the differance of having to run your fan on full speed or not (its with 10, max of 15psi from r507) . r402ais #1 it may be a bit harder to toon though seing as it has a glide, then again you dont realy need to change anything on the prometeia.

[Malachia]

at the end i did a mix of 404 and 410(80%,20%) and this is the result(i know it isn't correct, but haven't a good probe :( )


http://malachia.altervista.org/-67.JPG

[Unseen]

very nice! I used 507 in my first stage compressor. I switched to 410 and it gaves me a very nice boost especially under load.

[Tyrou]

It works fine, but the prommy temp probes are not known for their accuracy, if I remember well, you should add at least 10c to have the real evap temp :/

[Malachia]

now i only need a good evapo, then i will start my own cascade :D

[hipro5]

I don't weigh the charge.
1) remove the R134a charge, 2) I install a new filter drier and 12 inches of 3/16 copper pipe as a strain relief on the compressor discharge, 3) pressure with dry nitrogen for leak test, 4) relieve pressure and pull a triple vacume 5) using R507 I static charge with gas to 30 psig (2 Bar) 6) I start the system and let it run and add gas until it reaches 4 inches of vacume (-.1 bar) 7) Run for 15 min with a temperprobe on it while monitoring it your temperature should stabilize at around -50 to -54 C this is the bets capacity point for CPU cooling if you want to cool a gpu remove a little gas from here. to 5 inches of vacume unloaded.

When using R404 liquid charge and make sure to add only a little refrigerant at first as it is easy toovercharge this way, then proceed as in the R507 but flash a little liquid in your guages at a time to charge.

I also don't lengthen the capillary tube, and R402 has about 5% more capacity and a couple degrees colder than R507.
R410 is not a good option even as an addin. you gain a few degrees in temperature and sacrifice capacity.

Aggried on everything except that last one : "R410 is not a good option even as an addin. you gain a few degrees in temperature and sacrifice capacity".........I gained both some degrees more and capacity too with pure R410 gas.......BUT with more powerfull fans on the codenser......The R404 and the R507 just couldn't handle the load of a P4 3.4GHz EE @ 4640MHz with 2.1VCore @ 250Watts+........Temp was rising and rising....BUT the R410 did........ :)

[StarvationPlan]

@ Hipro

Let me see if I have gotten this right. First you had a Prommy, pumped r410a in, it broke down (cause of the strain?). Then you replaced the nl11f with a sc12cl..?

Did you see improvements on both temp and capacity while having the prommy compressor gassed with r410 vs. r507?

Do/did you run any of the compressors 24/7? or are they just used for benching?

Thanks

Edit: Great, I better learn not to surf in the middle of the night. When I manage to post in a thread instead of writing a PM by mistake... ARGH. I'm just going to get some sleep now :).

[hipro5]

@ Hipro

Let me see if I have gotten this right. First you had a Prommy, pumped r410a in, it broke down (cause of the strain?). Then you replaced the nl11f with a sc12cl..?

Did you see improvements on both temp and capacity while having the prommy compressor gassed with r410 vs. r507?

Do/did you run any of the compressors 24/7? or are they just used for benching?

Thanks

Edit: Great, I better learn not to surf in the middle of the night. When I manage to post in a thread instead of writing a PM by mistake... ARGH. I'm just going to get some sleep now :).

Yes I show a quite good improvement changing from R404/507 to R410 gas........R410 can handle the load and about 240Watts with "pleasure" despite R404/507 that at in this load(240Watts), temperature started to rise quickly *C by *C........ :D

Running though your rig with the R410 24/7 it's a bit defficult........I've done that (24/7) with the R410 ONLY by changing the Prommies' fans with THREE DELTA 12 x 12 fans......Tow inside the Prommie and one outside its condenser..........That way I was cranching SETI 2 x Working units for 24/7.......

Remember that IF you change your gas to R410 , the temperature of your compressor will rise a lot........ ;)

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:D Have to reactivate this thread - wanna regas my MACH II GT(R404a) without hardmods (changing fans or somthin' like that ).

The GT has a firmware which let the fans spin higher in normal mode.

So what gas should I use - R507, R402 or R410 to get lower temps without damaging my compressor?

:toast:

[giorgioprimo]

signed....

[jan]

:D Have to reactivate this thread - wanna regas my MACH II GT(R404a) without hardmods (changing fans or somthin' like that ).

The GT has a firmware which let the fans spin higher in normal mode.

So what gas should I use - R507, R402 or R410 to get lower temps without damaging my compressor?

:toast:


I'd go for R402a

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

I'd go for R402a

:D Is there a difference between R402 & R402a or is it just to save time :p: ppl calling it R402...?

:toast:

[hatemi]

there is 402a and 4042b. You woudl want the R402A in your sustem:) the only real difference is the gas mixtures->a has a bit lower bp than b.

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

there is 402a and 4042b. You woudl want the R402A in your sustem:) the only real difference is the gas mixtures->a has a bit lower bp than b.

:D THX - will go for R402a................

:toast:

[Myth]

I you ppl want to know more about a certain gas, or compare them to each other there's a great tool here: http://www.et.web.mek.dtu.dk/Coolpack/UK/index.html