Hc22/502

[kayl]

Finally i have got refrigerant.
and guess what for free.
i got this to trial until Christmas.
then im getting some r290.
then what eva is the best im gonna buy a 4.5kg bottle. :toast:
it came with some basic data sheets, stickers and stuff.
it says at 7psig its -40c, where as propane is 1psig at -40c
the guy said that the stuff is good in reverse cycle air conditioners.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20334&stc=1

[Hobocrow]

WoW! That should be great gas and get real cold @ below 7psig. You surely can't beat the price ... lucky you! :cool: :toast:

[kayl]

first i regased me 24/7 system 220w compresser.
it use to hold -31c after 3dmark2001se now lets see what it does with HR22/502

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20335&stc=1

this is another one that i made today with an old evap.
i replaced the capilary tube with a fresh piece of 0.031" got rid of the old 0.026" and replaced the 1/4" pipe from evap to 3/8"
i also used r290 at 3psig as a shield gas.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20338&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20339

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20336&stc=1
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this gas also has to be liquid filled, i do that through the high side right.
and only fill when the system is off?

with a bottle of this stuff it is a lot quicker to fill that with the bbq gas
a little squirt and i overcharged it to the max.
gonna have to get use to that

[kayl]

WoW! That should be great gas and get real cold @ below 7psig. You surely can't beat the price ... lucky you! :cool: :toast:

its about time i got some refrigerant.
the guy that gave it to me said that it performs the same as r290 though.

rotten cabbage smell
initial boiling point -50c-0C
auto ignition point 550c
vapour pressure at 20c:950kPag
flash point -104c to 60c
lower flammibility limit 1.9% in air
upper flamibility limit 9.5% in air.
vapour density 1.5 to 2.0 air=1


its 95% c3H8 ?
and 5% c2h6 ?

what do ppl think of this refrigerant from this?

[kayl]

ok i did last evac and charged again about 10psig too much.
http://www.hychill.com.au/pdf/hr22ptc.pdf


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20340&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20341&stc=1

[kayl]

and this is it loaded, about 3psig, but its flutuating in temps?
might shorten cap tube, its 3.3m new
no load -50+c.
idle -43.8c
-29c mother board monitor
c&c -39c.
time to tune it
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20342&stc=1
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no oc on gpu as i dont trust the fan on gpu

[bh2k]

Wow, that's some very nice stuff. Seems similar to R22

[HawainPanda]

really nice kayl!

[runmc]

Congrats Kayl,

Great temps - Don't you love the 031? I do :D

[Hobocrow]

Kayl ... when I'm charging HC502a, which requires a liguid fill. Since this is not a High pressure gas, after the initial static charge, I charge it into the low side with the compressor running.

Here's what I do ... open the tanks' liquid valve and fill the charge hose With the manifold set valves closed. Then, Very, very slowly crack open the low side manifold valve and monitor the pressure guage( not letting it move too high) that will give you one hose worth of pressure, which falls off quickly.
It's quite slow, but works! ;)

[kayl]

Congrats Kayl,

Great temps - Don't you love the 031? I do :D


next im going to try 0.035, i though i can only get 3.3m packs, cut some off and throw away, got one size bigger and dont cut, more subcooling.
thanx for that hobocrow.
will do that in future. how much do you static charge to?
also can i open high side to push gas out back into bottle, or do i need to put it in a seperate bottle?
first one i filled to 100psig
that use to be amount for r290, though it was a starting point.

[kayl]

Wow, that's some very nice stuff. Seems similar to R22

its the R22 replacement, US buy alot of it aparently.
he said australia resources make a very rich refrigerant, one of the best, his option though

[Hobocrow]

thanx for that hobocrow.
will do that in future. how much do you static charge to?
also can i open high side to push gas out back into bottle, or do i need to put it in a seperate bottle?

I did a static charge to 60psig @ 65F. After running the compressor and charging the low side like I described, I ended up with approx. 95psig @ 65F.
It runs @ 2psig/140psig loaded and goes up to approx 195psig before falling back.
I've never tried to recover the HC502a, it's a blend and separates (fractionates?) when in a gaseous form. :)

[kayl]

hmmmmm.
thanks ill try that.

well im emptying me r290 2kg tank, and im gonna vacuum it and collect some.
try it in reuse as i have a lot of cap tube tuning to do before Christmas.
4 phase change units to perfect for practice.
i need to get use to cap tube for the autocascade and know me loads vs length.
some where to start.

[gkiing]

So, from what ive gathered, the other 5% of ethane (c2h6) lowers the boiling point of the propane (c3h8) to make something that's good for -50C @ 0psig?

[kayl]

i think so
maybe its the came stuff as care50?
i was trying to get some ethane to mix to make it

[kayl]

it idles at -42c. i have done calculation off r290 chart though. as i beleve that the chart for the hc22/502 is only as good as straigh r290, the extra 5% ethane doesnt seem to be doing much?? :confused:
even at no load 0psig evap is -42c.
i think i ended up with about 8-9 foot of 0.031 capillary tube.
i am still happy with the refrigerant :toast:

i have been really bussy this week, be cutting down from 11 foot of 0.031 cap tube.
my barton also died this week :mad:
had to fault find pc and get a new chip.
they dont sell bartons any more here only seprons, and mobile chips can only get off ebay every now and again.
this should keep me going until cascade is finished and then 3000 64 here i come for some benchs, need to save some $$

the sempron did 2.61GHZ on 1.9v vcore,increase vcore doesnt yield much more MHZ at all
2.52GHZ at -42c with 1.8v vcore but if evap goes to below -30c pc crashes.
needs 1.85v to keep stable at -30c with other r12 system.
the r12 system got 1m of 3/8" added to suction line to add refrigerant and make simple accumulator :toast:

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21016&stc=1
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[Hobocrow]

Kayl, That's cool :cool: ...ummm, I mean that is Cold! :) Well done, you know what I mean! :thumbsup:

[reject]

when u get a64 i will help u to get card nice and cold if u want (vmods)

[DoGMaN]

Nice job Kayl! Nice to see someone besides me trying out these alternative refridgerants. In Canada it is the only kind we can buy without a license. I have a 50lbs bottle of R502a from Duracool that I have been using. First system I recharged is running -63C unloaded. It may be a little undercharged still though. Again great work!

[gkiing]

I emailed duracool a while ago with no response. How much did you pay for the 50lb cylinder of 502a? I was looking into getting some (i'm in canada too :D).

By the way the ozone depleting substances certification is only a one day course, you can take it at most of the major hands-on colleges/universities.

If your in BC BCIT has it a few times a year.

[DoGMaN]

I believe I payed $235 for the container delivered. I was going to take the cert but I'm pretty lazy ;) Just as easy to use this Duracool stuff

[gkiing]

I believe I payed $235 for the container delivered. I was going to take the cert but I'm pretty lazy ;) Just as easy to use this Duracool stuff

How do you order it?

[kayl]

ok another small r12 compressor that i got off the side of the road, fell off a trailer or something and pipes got broken. my friend down the road told me about it.
it draws about 0.9A's at 240v for about 215w power consumption.
Evap idle -35.1c
Suction 6” from compressor -5.9c
Pressures 3psig/165psig
Liquid line 29.9c
Compressor bottom 43.2c
Room temperature 21.1c

Subooling 10.5k
Supa heat 31.8k

Once again at 0psig no load I get -42c.

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21340&stc=1
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21341&stc=1
this is some oil I also go off the guy to try with the hc22/502. its clear, not sure if it likes moisture?? I asked buy he didn’t know, worth a try.
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21342&stc=1
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21344&stc=1
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21343&stc=1
i had an old r12 compressor cap off checking the wiring out to wire this thing and the damb dog got to the compressor cap, :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:.

[reject]

wow so how many comps now?? 5 was it? have u got enough to build all the systems for your customers?
hahahaha thats soo cool how you find stuff. when i find 2 bux that makes my day :ROTF:

[kayl]

so far i have scored all the compressors in this post for free.
hehee have to keep a keen eye out, and moto bike riding helps.
an then there is family.
and i forgot rubbish day. those big clean ups where ppl dump there rubbish out the front of their house.
scoring compressors for free is part of the fun.
makes a system cheaper.

[kayl]

update, i got 2.7GHZ at 2.1v vcore on the sempron.
i managed to get an old epox 8rd3a+ erlier revision mobo that just kept dieing.
i mangaed to get it to run for a few days now.
best of all i can uses up to 2.2v vcore, other mobo had current limiting issues.

i have pulled mobo apart and did a little sealing.
cause i had some conformal coating on there before. i gave it a good topup.
30c in the room and condensation is forming in some places.
i need airconditioner its too hot.
in the cooler months basically no condensation, which is better.

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21509&stc=1
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21510&stc=1

[kayl]

i gave the cooler a go today.
its 35c room temp.
evap is -41c (mother boardmonitor -30c) (1hp compressor) and condenser out is 41c (ouch) and pressures are 10hg/ 200psig, i tried 0psig low side but high side was 250psig and condenser output was 47c and evap was -31c, not good.
it normally does -50c at room temperature of 20c or so.
so when it gets hot things really change
i tried with the stock heatsink, stock with no overclock cpu temp motherboard monitor was 51c

[reject]

my cpu is at stock :(. sitting at my comp gaming for a while, i try to get up but sweat has glued me to the chair
i bet your ceondensor is really steaming, wats the temp
how does that pron compare to the 2500? its a barton right?

[Ssilencer]

Nice job Kayl! Nice to see someone besides me trying out these alternative refridgerants. In Canada it is the only kind we can buy without a license. I have a 50lbs bottle of R502a from Duracool that I have been using. First system I recharged is running -63C unloaded. It may be a little undercharged still though. Again great work!

Could you please give me the specs (comp hp, kind and lenght of cap tube, etc) of that system?
I have two systems running r502 with 1/3hp comps and they "only" give me -46c unloaded.
I think I need to buy a manifold, weld and vacuum pump. :(

[Tonic]

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21510&stc=1


Where did you plug this temperature sensor? Even so, I dunno if this is added with RDA+, I'm
asking because I got sensor like you and, so far, I don't know to plug it to my NF-7S

[kayl]

my cpu is at stock :(. sitting at my comp gaming for a while, i try to get up but sweat has glued me to the chair
i bet your ceondensor is really steaming, wats the temp
how does that pron compare to the 2500? its a barton right?

discharge temps were crazy, I touched pipe and burn finger.
Much better ocing at night though.
the barton 2500 stock is better than the 2800 sempron for sure, in the old mobo the sempron is a 2400+ (old bios)
its liking high volts for now im at 2.1v now 2723mhz, a screen shot once i hit wall for ocing. With more volts I want to find its absolute limit.
A chip at 2.2v and say 2.8ghz is definitely a good load for the cooling system.


Could you please give me the specs (comp hp, kind and lenght of cap tube, etc) of that system?
I have two systems running r502 with 1/3hp comps and they "only" give me -46c unloaded.
I think I need to buy a manifold, weld and vacuum pump. :(

its a 1Hp rotary with about 9ft 0.031"
about 8-10 ft seems ok. same for other compressors as well.
i think you need a bigger compressor.
a 1/2Hp to 1Hp should be able to run 0psig to 4Hg and handle full load for better temps.
i dont use a vacuum pump either
but of coarse would help


Where did you plug this temperature sensor? Even so, I dunno if this is added with RDA+, I'm
asking because I got sensor like you and, so far, I don't know to plug it to my NF-7S

yes the mobo came with that temp sensor soldered to mobo.
you might be able to plug it into where the cpu fas is. :confused:

[eva2000]

wow very nice... you have the skills :D

I think you're the only person I know in OZ building their own phase change :cool:

[kayl]

thanxs i think so too

i hit the max tonight. 2736MHZ 3dmar2001se run with out a crash.
39sec on 1m Pi. same as barton at 2724
This was with vcore at 2.11v real, I tried 2.2v but no increase in oc.
windows can run at 2760mhz
room temp 26c evap -42c motherboard monitor -28c. idle -45c
i like using mother board monitor to tell me whether or not i have good cpu contact.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21615&stc=1

[kayl]

well i removed the dd block to inspect mobo after a few hours of benching on a lovly hot aussie night to see how condensation is going.
i have been trying wooden insulation. its not a very good insulator even with the bench top surface finish. water seems to form all over the wood otter surface. at the actual cpu area there was no water due to air tight seal. i also used hot glue to seal insulation to block to make that air tight.
i think next i go back to white foam.
I wish it worked cause it was so easy to put on the different evaps and attach the temp sensor. Foam wears out over time and screw hole through foam get bigger (cause I take it off too much)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21623&stc=1
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[kayl]

i must say though this is the worst i have seen condensation eva.
normally me -31c system runs fine and no condensation will form on the insulation
but tonight check this out. i think there mush be a small knick or something here cause of the frost forming.
i also notice near the compressor where the copper block was sitting frost formed there as well.
i think even the -31c system needs 2 layers of 9mm foam like the -50c system.
its good in winter to oc, i hate summer and humid nights
it 29c now
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21637&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21638&stc=1

[kayl]

i got some stuff today.
man i hate customs.
i then gave me favorite system a work over.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22215
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22216
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[gkiing]

Nice DT200 you got

Ive been using a wooden hold down on top of my direct die block and it gets water droplets on it, I just point a fan over it and it keeps it in check. I've found that condensation isint much of a problem unless its on your cpu/mobo.

[kayl]

thanxs
ouch moisture is a real pain some times, im just glad its not a problem all year round.
wood is good cause it doesnt wear.




do i have the condenser the right way up??

[kayl]

ok this is after 30mins of prme.
evap -42c, -27c mother board monitor
room 30c
-50c pc asleep. -36c mother board monitor
-46c idle evap and idel suction line
my capillary line needs to be longer for the h22/502 compared to the old bbq r290, but i wont add a new bit of capillary line for a while, leave it the way it is.
i will be upgrading this unit in the months to come to be an autocascade.
i cant wait.

[gkiing]

I'm actually not sure which way up the condenser goes, i dont think it matters as long as the discharge of the compressor goes to the top and then your liquid line comes from the bottom. I've got the same condenser and their great, I've used one on a prommy clone and one on a waterchiller. The only problem is the fins get bent easily, but I guess thats the case with all condensers (except for one i made out of 25' of 1/4" tubing :D).

[kayl]

some are for another member of OCAU forums, and making a unit for a member in perth and for autocascade and cascade supa-deheaters.
i have been saving for ages for this.


more updates no load and idle temps now, little colder today.

[kayl]

Ok I gave it the prime test yesterday, pority 10 with cpu-z running in background.
I had motherboard monitoring the cpu temps (start -36c die) and evap was at -50c.
Cpu was clocked at 2653 MHz and vcore set to max (that mobo can handle with over current protection kicking in) 1.95 V, chip set 1.8v and ram to 2.9v.
After 1hour evap was holding -46.7c (suction line -23.7c) , then even after 1hr and 48mins it was still holding -46.7 suction line -23.8c still has the same supa heat value and cpu die temps holding -31c/-32c very stable. I reckon as long as room conditions stayed they same this thing could prime like this for hours.
I’m a happy camper. These condenser handle a decent heat load.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22412&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22413&stc=1

[eva2000]

Very nice indeed i guess a few OCAU members will have a nice toy to play with soon :)

more pics are always welcomed :D

[f00t]

update, i got 2.7GHZ at 2.1v vcore on the sempron.
i managed to get an old epox 8rd3a+ erlier revision mobo that just kept dieing.
i mangaed to get it to run for a few days now.
best of all i can uses up to 2.2v vcore, other mobo had current limiting issues.

i have pulled mobo apart and did a little sealing.
cause i had some conformal coating on there before. i gave it a good topup.
30c in the room and condensation is forming in some places.
i need airconditioner its too hot.
in the cooler months basically no condensation, which is better.

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21509&stc=1


is that de-electric grease or did you use superglue on the back of that mobo

[kayl]

Very nice indeed i guess a few OCAU members will have a nice toy to play with soon :)

more pics are always welcomed :D

thanx, yeah 2 in perth/austraila hopefully if all goes well.

is that de-electric grease or did you use superglue on the back of that mobo

its conformal coating, and it doesnt come off, that mobo is faulty and doesnt really work properly, thats why i did it, normally i use dielectric grease