Bugged Nature when using RICK tweak.

[Holst]

Hi all.

Ive been benching today using the tweak RICK/PEDRO descovered.
I now have some concerns over this tweak.

It does seem to have given a performance boost in all tests but I could NOT get a run with the graphics overclocked where my nature score was not bugged.

This run should have been 25.5k max, but with bugged nature of 219fps it gives me a false score of 26590...

Problem was that even though I ran nature ten times over the result was the same bugged score every time.. appart from when I dropped back to stock graphics clocks when I got a "normall" score.

This is worrying because if I can get this sort of repeatability, others may also have bugged natures and might not notice... Id recomend that everybody checks there nature to make sure that its not artificially high..

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8224182

I am NOT saying that everbody has a bugged score, as all my other tests did fun faster with this tweak. But its worth checking for as I can repeat the bugged nature over and over...
I havent checked anybody elses scores, but if you do have any odd ones can you post here.

Or if you think this is down to something else on my system let me know.
I never had this problem before switching to multiprocessor driver.

Thanks.

Holst

[zakelwe]

Hi Holst,

Interesting possible side effect.

I noticed one too, my cpu tends to run at 35-40C normally but after the Ricky tweak it was saying 55C in MSI Core Centre. I have not had time to double check or confirm yet it is not something co-incidental though.

Regards

Andy

[macci]

I never had this problem before switching to multiprocessor driver
Haven't seen the problem on X800 series cards atleast. but then again I'm not running a multiprocessor driver on a non-multiprocessor CPU (A64 that is) ;)

http://www.akiba-pc.com/939/testdata.jpg
nature remained at 201-203 w/ ES X800PRO 12pipe 472/499, and 262-265 on X800XT PE depending on driver and mobo used.

[eva2000]

rick tweak?? :confused:

[Holst]

Hi Holst,

Interesting possible side effect.

I noticed one too, my cpu tends to run at 35-40C normally but after the Ricky tweak it was saying 55C in MSI Core Centre. I have not had time to double check or confirm yet it is not something co-incidental though.

Regards

Andy

I think that might be a genuine increase in temp.

My system needed the fan speed turning up and more Vcore to run at the same speeds with this tweak enabled.
Heatsink felt hotter after doing this tweak, probably due to ACPI being messed with...

[OPPAINTER]

Hi Holst,

Interesting possible side effect.

I noticed one too, my cpu tends to run at 35-40C normally but after the Ricky tweak it was saying 55C in MSI Core Centre. I have not had time to double check or confirm yet it is not something co-incidental though.

Regards

Andy
Yes it throws on a lot of heat for some reason.
In fact, my temps actually cool off under a load compared to idle temps:D
Thats right, if you want cooler temps just put a load on the cpu, strange:)

And on topic, I havn't seen any nature problems with the X800 cards.

OPP

[L0$t Pr0PhEt]

Yes it throws on a lot of heat for some reason.
In fact, my temps actually cool off under a load compared to idle temps:D
Thats right, if you want cooler temps just put a load on the cpu, strange:)

And on topic, I havn't seen any nature problems with the X800 cards.

OPP

I noticed the same, my roomtemp is quite hot but still I have lower load temp then before :)

[eshbach]

i noticed my load temp was 1-2 degrees less than normal, but i never see idle temps because of folding...

[Nimrod0031]

I dont know how hard your pushing your card but I know if you push it to hard it can lead to a bogus nature score. Bowman noticed that a long time ago. I got my 9800pro to do it once.

[HermS]

Hi,

I've succefully done the tweak and have been trying to explain to a friend what this tweak does exactly, but I'm ashamed to say I have no idea what is going on that causes the increase in scores/performance.... could somoene outline exactly how this tweak boosts performance please?

[sky]

well for me it basically upped the general score abit - though with 2k1 my 9800xt @default scored higher in all tests but nature compared to the 6800gt i run now (xpm2600, ...) . anyway my idle temps went from 35°C to 42°-43°C. full load does nothing to that temp - it stays right there, maybe constant 43°C - load has been ~40°C before. pretty strange imo.

[Snowman89]

could somene pelase tell me what that tweak is all about?

[Holst]

could somene pelase tell me what that tweak is all about?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45004

[CodeRed]

I cant test this tweak with 3DMark (no vid card worth using), but with SuperPi and Pifast my CPU was about 4 deg hotter (measured from evap temp) with Multproc ACPI vs Uniproc ACPI.

[rick_fx]

I used to have 36C idle. Now it's around 54C.

I installed CPU Idle, now back down to 36.

[sky]

if i'm not completely mistaken all cpu-idle does is enable the cpu-disconnect function (stopgrnt, halt) - and you could do just that via the bios, though it might make your overclock a little unstable. don't know if this is still the same for a64's and fx's but it is like that on xp's...

[Holst]

I think my instability was caused by increased temperatures.
I only have rubbish aircooling at the moment.

I dont like using CPU-disconect as it caused instability for me in the past.

[eshbach]

one more word of caution...

i tried udoing this tweak, and, well...

windows is now reinstalling.

[Holst]

one more word of caution...

i tried udoing this tweak, and, well...

windows is now reinstalling.

Thanks for the tip.

I VERY nearly tried to switch it back. I dont think ill bother now.

[Kunaak]

I haven't had any real difference with my 6800 NU benchmarking with or without this tweak.

for me, it only gave about 150 points extra.
it's a interesting tweak, but did little for me.
no real difference in my nature scores.

[Pedro Rocha]

Yes it throws on a lot of heat for some reason.
In fact, my temps actually cool off under a load compared to idle temps:D
Thats right, if you want cooler temps just put a load on the cpu, strange:)

And on topic, I havn't seen any nature problems with the X800 cards.

OPP

That is not strange at all, that is a direct effect on the change in the OS ACPI layer (in more current terms is like the idle process never turrn on / the halt instructions act differently on the cpu cycles and the performance is boosted) ..but no pain no gain ..or in this case - "no heat no gain" :D :D

Enjoy the tweak :toast:
I wish I have the money to buy an FX-55 tomorow (it is very dificult to selll the FX-53 WR breaker here in Portugal:( ) - but we going to try to chatch you with my "old" FX-53, that is much sportive and fun ..
For me and Ricky, the most important is to have fun, and of course it is quite fun and challenging to barriers with less resources :D
Now if you you please e-mail us some ethylene ASAP, we will be very grateful :D

BTW on topic - it is very unlikely that this change will cause some effect on the graphics card, altought some components on motherboard may have the temperatures raised a little (or a lot in some mobos).
If you are running on air or WC or even standard phase-change that can bring instability to the system - so I advise you all to not run 24/7 with this ..

When benching at sub -100ºC it is not a big issue (all components drop temperatures dramatically and a lot insulation skills are required) but cascades are not mainstream... yet ... :p:

[Geforce4ti4200]

so once you do the tweak, you cant undo it without messing up windows and needing a reinstall? is it possible to do the tweak wrong and need a time consuming reinstall? I never heard of the tweak bugging any scores, I think your bugged nature is cause your gpu is artifacting and giving errors which skew natures fps. try clocking your card down a little and run nature again. the fact its normal at stock means its the gpu, not the tweak

[CodeRed]

You can undo this tweak

I cycled between all of the different HAL drivers, and then back to the original Uniproc one without any troubles at all.

[eva2000]

so once you do the tweak, you cant undo it without messing up windows and needing a reinstall? is it possible to do the tweak wrong and need a time consuming reinstall? I never heard of the tweak bugging any scores, I think your bugged nature is cause your gpu is artifacting and giving errors which skew natures fps. try clocking your card down a little and run nature again. the fact its normal at stock means its the gpu, not the tweak
ghost image backups ;)

[G H Z]

Wow this config change really cranks out the heat as Zakelwe & Opp said. My evap went from -52 idle @272x12 to -42 @250x11, so for me at least this is a useless tweak without better cooling.

[di_entropy]

as long as load temps remain the same then it shouldn't make much difference should it?

[G H Z]

Sure but I can't get 3Ghz stable now so you see my point?

[zakelwe]

So it is a real temp increase due to not idling. My performance level has not decreased, can still bench 3dmark at 2880 or so and that is on air. However I might flip back to non multi come the summer because at present my bench room temps are only 6C.

Good luck with that FX-53 Pedro, hpe you get the E as well soon.

Regards

Andy

[eshbach]

You can undo this tweak

I cycled between all of the different HAL drivers, and then back to the original Uniproc one without any troubles at all.

when i changed back it rebooted and got a blue screen about half way in to loading windows every time. repair install didn't fix it, i needed a completely fresh installation.

[STEvil]

Temps on my XP-M 2500+ @ 2.3 1.65v are up about 3-4c, thats it.

Temps on my 2800+ @ 2.4 1.75v (CG Clawhammer) were showing 45-48c load before, are now showing 72c load (but heatsink feels only barely warmer than it was at 45-48, so I would say this is a temp sensor bug).

This tweak does something weird.. I like it ;)

[Geforce4ti4200]

questions:

1. has the tweak hurt the overclock for any of you?
2. does the tweak raise the IPC of the cpu in a way and thus makes it work harder, use more of its transistors and thus get hotter? kinda like cpc?
3. how much, if any did you guys gain from the tweak? some report no gains?

cant think of anything else for now

[stestan]

1. No :banana:
2. i run 10c hotter :eek:
3. 300 points but it all helps eh! :banana4:

[STEvil]

1 - no.
2 - 5c hotter on both setups or so.
3 - 100pts extra in 2k1 on A64 w/ GF256 (4 runs each setting), 250 points on XP-M @ 2.3 with 9700 pro.

UT2K4 also has a noticeable increase in performance, but I didnt test it for exact numbers. I'd say 3-8fps avg.

[zakelwe]

1) no
2) No idea, I assumed the multiprocessor HAL just allowed windows to distribute resources differently between O/S and other tasks.
3) 500 and 700 points respectively.

Regards

Andy

[Holst]

I think Geforce and Pedro may be correct.

My temps did go up allot running this tweak, maybe this pushed my 9800 core over the edge. It just seemed very odd that the bugged nature was so repeatable.. I could get it over and over again. With no crashes... Very strange.

I think I will still be able to make use of this tweak, as with a better CPU fan I can keep temperatures under control so I could run the same overclock as before. Not sure what will happen when I switch back to watercooled though.

[Holst]

questions:

1. has the tweak hurt the overclock for any of you?
2. does the tweak raise the IPC of the cpu in a way and thus makes it work harder, use more of its transistors and thus get hotter? kinda like cpc?
3. how much, if any did you guys gain from the tweak? some report no gains?

cant think of anything else for now

1 - yes. Dropped 50mhz CPU clock from the overheatsing untill I turned my CPU fan up to max.
2 - Not sure
3 - Apart from nature bug (which limited my usefull testing) I would say I gained around 400-500 points 01 using this tweak. It would have been more but I had to drop my graphics clocks due to increased case temps.

[Crankster]

Another problem discovered. It gives you speedhack if you OC in CS and CS:S.

[SwimmerBoy]

what?!? lol....i dont belive...is that true?!!?

[Crankster]

Yes, a very bad one... Everyone else seems to be lagging and you ran real fast. Hard as :banana::banana::banana::banana: to hit anyone.
I give up on this.

[L0$t Pr0PhEt]

Yes, a very bad one... Everyone else seems to be lagging and you ran real fast. Hard as :banana::banana::banana::banana: to hit anyone.
I give up on this.

Hehe, I have to try this one :p

[Sheik]

No way I will publish scores with such a "tweak". Did try it though and Aquamark froze.

[STEvil]

Yes, a very bad one... Everyone else seems to be lagging and you ran real fast. Hard as :banana::banana::banana::banana: to hit anyone.
I give up on this.

Thats odd? Nobody else is reporting this for CS:S?

[Crankster]

I can replicate it a hundred times, i clock using clockgen if that matters.
only with the tweak though i get sp33dhack.

[di_entropy]

just tested out Hitman 3: Contracts last night and it seems that the tweak has speedhack effect on this game too ;(
other games like doom3, quake2 etc seem to run fine for me tho

[STEvil]

is your clock (on the taskbar) running faster than normal? This is just too odd..

[reject]

well i dont think i got any increase, although i am ocing stuff at the same time... went from 1.6v for 270x8, to 1.725v for 282x8. i think without the tweak i wouldnt need so much vs.
this is on quiet air zalman alcu

[sky]

i only noticed certain games - nfsu2 demo for example - crashing back to desktop after some time, no errormsg, no nothing, just back to desktop - and that wasn't caused by the gfx-card. 60°C is quite average for a singleslot cooled 6800gt. but then again, my watercircuit (atm only cpu & nb as i haven't felt like doing a 6800 holddown) is all clogged with greasy stuff and has to be changed anyway - maybe today.

[reject]

man my xp screwed up too.
i really dont wanna reinstall.
apic on install, and then when removing tweak i set back to standard pc... uniproc was not there... then after a few reboots of detecting drivers... yep my drivers went funny... and i had no cd drive!
just dissaperd, and when i try to soft reinstall it cant figure out the letter of my cd drive. it was F: and for some reason windows partition G:, now its decided to go alphabetical and i think i need to foprmat partition.
i learnt from a time before and no music is on the my docs, but my homework is....
before i hard reinstall whart can i do? i cant even repair install windows

[jumanji969]

I enabled this tweak yesterday, noticed slightly higher temps but other than that almost no changes. CS plays fine for me, same as it did a week ago.








Except finally breaking 20k!!!!!!!!!





3dmark01 that is :)

[STEvil]

the defualt option is ACPI PC (the long named one) reject, not "standard pc" That is why you had to reinstall all your hardware.

[Crankster]

Her you go, getting rid the tweak.

[jumanji969]

Be weary even if you rollback the drivers and set it to the original uniprocessor driver there can still be complications. I tried it and now I'm getting a "Cannot find hal.dll" message when I reboot.