SLI & CPU Bottleneck...

[Mariachi]

Hello,

I'm buying 2x6800U's,
which CPU I should take that won't be limiting my performance?

Stock FX53/55 will do it? And if they're too expensive;
what about a 3200+ 939 OCed to 2.6/2.7Ghz?

Because just imagine the price of:
FX55; 2x6800U; NF4 mobo; PCPC510...

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Roy

[saaya]

hey roy :)

theres a reason there will be a dual cpu sli board :D
and that reason is that 6800U cards in sli are still bottlenecked, even from an fx55.
maybe an oced fx55 will not be a bottleneck anymore, who knows... i think it wont, but its hard to tell... we only have one sli score so far, wich is with a 4000+, so we cant indicate a trend and guess at what cpus speed you no longer have a bottleneck.

if you have the money then get a tyan board with two opterons and two 6800s or a dual xeon board with sli :D

if not then get the fx55 wich is the fastest cpu you can get for sli :)

[Kunaak]

your best bet really is the FX55.
if your going SLI and 2 6800 ultras, it's really not to your advantage to skimp on the CPU. the videocard is only as powerful as the CPU you pair it with.
I'd suggest just swallow the cost and pat the $800 for the 55.
it's one insane machine, but if your going for something that high end, it doesn't make sense to get cheap at the last step.

[quicksilverXP]

Or... you can save money and just get two 6800GTs instead... then you can just get away with an overclocked 90nm CPU.... or even a 4000+... assuming you are worrying about cost in the first place.

[saaya]

yeah, gts would def save you money... hmmm and maybe you should wait for nv48 refresh from nvidia, they could clock higher and need less watts than the current cards and they should be out at christmas.

[Çhrist0ph]

:rolleyes:

just play your games at high res w/aa + af....then you wont be bottlenecked. thats what $800-$1000 worth of graphics is supposed to do, let you play games at high res w/filtering,etc...

[Mariachi]

First of all, thanks for your replies!

Well, that's final - I really, but really can't afford the extra cash for a FX55,
altough my upgrdae path is widely open and i'll switch to FX55 eventually.

I have an option to get a 3000/3200-939 (very new chips), and OC the hell out of them, i'm aiming for 2.7Ghz on air and maybe 3Ghz under my VapoLS.

Here in Israel; prices extremely so high - FX51-940 costs like a FX55;
It's very hard to find a decent PSU (PCPC), GPU (6800U PCX) and even a DFI mobo.

Sayaa:

Well, I can't even imagine the cost of dual-cpu setup :eek:
AMD's K9 should support Dual-Core CPU's; that will be kinda the same right?
When we're gonna see K9 mobo's / K9 cpu's? Does K9 mobo's will be based on the NF4?

I can ALWAYS WAIT FOR SOMETHING NEW; there will be always something new around the corner. I waited for: A64 -> NF3 250 -> DFI NF3 -> 939 90nm, and now i'm want to make sure that DFI NF4 SLI will be my LAST wait. I don't want to wait that long for K9 and NV48. BTW, what so special about NV48? Thanks.

I don't get it - If i'll get 2x6800GT I won't be bottlenecked?
Why? I can always OC a GT to Ultra level and above.

Best regards,
Roy

[r3b0rN]

no, it was more so you could save money on video card and put that money into cpu power.

[Mariachi]

Oh, I see :)
But even buying a 6800GT won't save me the money required for a FX.
My only option is to save some money and upgrade to a FX later.

[saaya]

there will be dual opteron boards based on nf4 in some weeks i think ;)

in the amd section there are pics of all nf4 boards to come, theres one from tyan with dual opterons and sli :D

and since its nf4 it will be great for ocing! so you could get 1.40 opterons and overclock both to 2ghz (im sure they will hit at LEAST 2ghz, try to get a new stepping...) and you have 4ghz a64 power AIR COOLED for 300$ !!!! ;)

then get a 6800gt and maybe upgrade to another 6800gt later... :) now get what i mean? :D

i think you can get the nf4 dual opteron sli board and only run it with one opteron cpu as well :D so you can upgrade to a second cpu OR videocard later... :D nice eh? :D

[Crankster]

After that you "only" need to rewrite all of your games for a dual config.

[Mariachi]

Well, I don't think i'll wait anymore.
I'll just hope on 2x6800's and 90nm 939.
What do you say about that? ;)

[Crow]

either way, 2x6800 series cards is gonna be fast, no question, I would go for that. Less money, and more fun :D

[saaya]

After that you "only" need to rewrite all of your games for a dual config.

*dreams*maybe the sli drivers make use of several gpus or HT nad split the work load for gpu1 to cpu1 and gpu2 to cpu2 :D */dreams*

[Mini]

Is there gonna be dual CPU's and dual gfx on 1 board???

Imagine the god damn PSU you need... And if you OC it...

Its like 1000w if not more...

I think your fuse is gonna blow...

Saya: 2x2Ghz opteron dont work like 4Ghz???

Isnt it only programs that are made for dual CPU that use it 100%???

[Funny_S]

Is there gonna be dual CPU's and dual gfx on 1 board???

Imagine the god damn PSU you need... And if you OC it...

Its like 1000w if not more...

I think your fuse is gonna blow...

Saya: 2x2Ghz opteron dont work like 4Ghz???

Isnt it only programs that are made for dual CPU that use it 100%???

Yep there is, Iwill is manufacturing a mainboard, based on the nForce 4 chipset. The mainboard will be called: DK8ES and they want to release it in November, probably the very very end of November.
http://www.tweakers.net/ext/i.dsp/1095091191.jpg

Now we still need a mobo with dual opteron and sli and oc possibilities :banana:

[blinky]

remember to make sure when u buy the 6800s that they have the pins on the top for the SLI connector to go onto. im assuming that not all pcie 6800s will have that connector

[Mariachi]

Thank for the replies... I decided what to take.
3200, DFI NF4 SLI, 2x6800U, PCPC510Express, and sooner or later FX.

And look on that Iwill..
I wonder if this mobo can fit into their Iwill's SFF :p:

[Der_KHAN]

uh, whens the dfi nf4 sli supposed to hit the market?

[Mariachi]

My guess is mid-November, But of course DFI's mobo will be the latest! :(
Oh man it takes years till ANY mobo arrves to my country :(

[reject]

do you need all that powah? surely a 4ghz p4 or an oced a64 combined with one card is enough? and have sli as the upgrade path?

[Mariachi]

I'll have enough CPU power, But I chose the SLI way mainly because of the insane performance with 2 cards and upgrade path.

[Der_KHAN]

i wonder if 2 128mb gt's would act like one 128mb card or one 256mb card...

[Kanavit]

having SLI is like having a double barrel shotgun. twice of everything!

[longshot]

2 128 megs cards do not act like 1 256mb card.

[Der_KHAN]

2 128 megs cards do not act like 1 256mb card.

so i would only have 128mb of video memory in that case?

however, i remember the voodoo2 SLI being able to double the frame buffer but not the texture memory. so dunno how it is with the new stuff...

[Soulburner]

That is correct, you don't have double the usable amount of video RAM, sadly :(

[Filter]

dual cpu board wont help sli since there are no games that really take advantage of dual cpu's.

[saaya]

dont get rhe pcpnc510!!!!

get the ocz! i heard its more stable, lets you adjust the rails from outisde the psu! costs less (right?) and is much much much more silent!

the 510 is really noisy!

[chunkylover77]

My 510 is pretty quiet.

[stergiopilus]

My 510 is pretty quiet.

As is mine. :)

[r3b0rN]

dont get rhe pcpnc510!!!!

get the ocz! i heard its more stable, lets you adjust the rails from outisde the psu! costs less (right?) and is much much much more silent!

the 510 is really noisy! stop yelling mister :( lol :p:

[Mariachi]

Sayaa:

Why not? :eek:
I heard that pcpc is the be(a)st, in terms of performance...

Sure the OCZ is cost less, but I heard that his rails / ampers are bad...

[Mini]

lol 1x500W PSU isnt enough?!

2x6800U with 2xCPU's... Even at stock it would be hard to pull...

If he OC'es it???

Its like 8-900W for stability...

[zakelwe]

I'm still interested in whether it is better, for 6600GTs in SLi mode, two of them with 1.6ns memory and 128MB of RAM or two of them with 2.0ns memory but with 256MB of RAM at higher resolutions and AA/AF.

I'm guessing the latter will allow more headroom as all the framebuffer has to go onto both cards.

Regards

Andy

[Crankster]

How did you get 800 to 900 watts? Did you roll ye old powerdice? 500 is what it's gonna pull with one HDD unoced. MAX. Optys don't draw 200 W each and nor do the ultras.

[saaya]

the 510 is not noisy? :o

ok... hmmm do you all have the deluxe version with the 2 high rpm fans or the silent version? ahhh i think i heard the 510w was noisy, but thats the turbocool version, right? geez how many version sof this pcpnc510W are there? normal, delux, turbocool? more?

some people had both and say the ocz was better... dont think it has bad rails, look at macci and stilts 6ghz oc, theres nothing more demanding for a psu today than an oced prescott :D

and 500W is not enough for a dual opteron sli rig i think.

a 6800U consumes 50W on the 12v rail, two 6800Us mean 50W, oced its more like 55W for each, so 110W on the 12v rail just from the 6800Us.

and afaik the vcore from the opterons comes almost completely from the 12v rail, correct me if im wrong, then thats 100W for each opteron (oced and overvolted) if not even more.

110W+200W=310W on the 12v rail... thats 25A

hmmm the powerstream is rated for 33A... so it should indeed be fine... but its close to the max spec...

hmmm so a 500W is fine for a dual opteron sli rig.... good to know!

but then whats up with those 700 and 800W psus from pcpnc? 0_o can you say overkill? :p:

[Manoj]

hey roy :)

theres a reason there will be a dual cpu sli board :D
and that reason is that 6800U cards in sli are still bottlenecked, even from an fx55.
maybe an oced fx55 will not be a bottleneck anymore, who knows... i think it wont, but its hard to tell... we only have one sli score so far, wich is with a 4000+, so we cant indicate a trend and guess at what cpus speed you no longer have a bottleneck.

if you have the money then get a tyan board with two opterons and two 6800s or a dual xeon board with sli :D

if not then get the fx55 wich is the fastest cpu you can get for sli :)


Why not get the FX53 which will be cheaper than the FX55? FX chips are unlocked and you can run the FX53 CPU at FX55 speed at defalt voltage?

[Manoj]

remember to make sure when u buy the 6800s that they have the pins on the top for the SLI connector to go onto. im assuming that not all pcie 6800s will have that connector


Is the Geforce 6800 Ultra PCI-E available already?

[Sheik]

If your worried about CPU bottlenecks maybe the Alienware FX51 watercooled Dual Xeon SLI machine is for you :eek:

http://www.alienware.com/intro_pages/sli.aspx

[aoc007]

the 510 is not noisy? :o

ok... hmmm do you all have the deluxe version with the 2 high rpm fans or the silent version? ahhh i think i heard the 510w was noisy, but thats the turbocool version, right? geez how many version sof this pcpnc510W are there? normal, delux, turbocool? more?

some people had both and say the ocz was better... dont think it has bad rails, look at macci and stilts 6ghz oc, theres nothing more demanding for a psu today than an oced prescott :D

and 500W is not enough for a dual opteron sli rig i think.

a 6800U consumes 50W on the 12v rail, two 6800Us mean 50W, oced its more like 55W for each, so 110W on the 12v rail just from the 6800Us.

and afaik the vcore from the opterons comes almost completely from the 12v rail, correct me if im wrong, then thats 100W for each opteron (oced and overvolted) if not even more.

110W+200W=310W on the 12v rail... thats 25A

hmmm the powerstream is rated for 33A... so it should indeed be fine... but its close to the max spec...

hmmm so a 500W is fine for a dual opteron sli rig.... good to know!

but then whats up with those 700 and 800W psus from pcpnc? 0_o can you say overkill? :p:

I have the deluxe and it uses one fan. So my psu should be able to support a ocd FX-55, dual 6800U sli, 4x hard drives, 4x tornados and the rest of the stuff in my sig? Im tryin to round up the money for a 2 pcie 6800s, dfi nf4 sli, and a fx-55. Vapo LS already on the way from Chunkylover :)

[Mini]

How did you get 800 to 900 watts? Did you roll ye old powerdice? 500 is what it's gonna pull with one HDD unoced. MAX. Optys don't draw 200 W each and nor do the ultras.

Didnt a 6800U use like 12XW Load?(The whole card?)

2xopterons + the whole mobo+fans+HDD's+DVD/CD drive and floppy...

Remember i dont think this is a bench rigg... more like a PC ;) just insane...

Hes probably gonna play games and so on...

I am 120% sure that a 500W PSU cant pull 2xOC'ed opterons 2xOC'ed 6800U's and the rest of system...

And if he Vmods sumthin thats even more...

A GOOD 350W PSU can pull a 6800U+new CPU.. And then you have a OC bottleneck...

So i dunno how the hell you would find 1x500W to pull all that system...

And if a system needs 550W then u give it a 650-750W PSU so that you have some extra ;)

[Crankster]

The ultras draw sub 100 W afaik.

[Mini]

Are you sure??

I thought that X800XT was like 10XW load and 6800U was 12XW load??? At default...

But i still dont believe that when a 300W PSU cant pull 1xCPU+1X6800U why a 500W then should pull 2x of each ;) Even OC'ed... Hehe... You cant do it ;)

[Mariachi]

Saw this at PCP&C's site:
"Guaranteed to Power any Single or Dual CPU System With up to Twelve Drives!"
(TurboCool XXX 510 units)....

Well, I don't plan to get Dual CPU, but i'll have Dual GPU.
So I guess that 2x6800U's consume less power than 2xA64's, so i'll be perfect with the SLI right? even with extreme overclock (Turbo-Cool510 supplies 38A on the 12V, 650W of total power, and you can adjust rails also). BTW I don't have 12 drives, not even close. I'll have like 1-2HDD's, 1 optical drive, and a Soundcard.

Sayaa:
I only saw one person that had both PCPC and both OCZ, and said the OCZ was better, And that was Craig here in the XS; but he was unlucky....
Also I saw someone that got a DOA unit, burned from inside, but he was unlucky too.
NEVER saw other cases like the 2 ones above.

I never said the OCZ was bad, but I understood that PCPC's are the best.
I saw many threads and my conclusion was that PCPC is best and the most expensive.
The OCZ is good for the money. But if you want the best (PCPC) you must pay.

I don't care about noise, I want THE BEST sheer performance.
And i'm sure Macci could have done that record with a PCP&C, maybe shipment costs to Finland are expensive :)

Best regards,
Roy (and sorry for the b4d english :()

[Rukee]

what AMD MBs are on the market now that do SLI??
any??

[Kanavit]

wait for the MSI Nforce4 SLI supporting s939 A64s with 2x PCIe slots. That is going to be a killer rig, there are some screenshots all over the net.

[Grayson Carlyle]

FX-53 is rated for 80W, FX-55 is 100W, A64s are in the 70 to 80W range (note that in general, they consume less than that). 6800U is 120W+, X800XT is 100W+

2 Cards in SLI will draw more than 2 A64s. HDDs don't pull much, relatively speaking, and FDDs are negligible.

So yes, 1 CPU, 2 GPU would be fine on a quality PSU like the PC P&C 510, but probably not on a low quality one. I'd want a 600W for 2X2 though.

[Maelstrom2160]

just get a 2nd cheap 350W to power the gpu's, the'll be happy as larry with there own dedicated PSU (consult the psu's data sheet as the 3.3v or 5v may need to be loaded)

what im wondering is will there enough room to fit two DD nv6800 water blocks or are we needing new ultra slim gpu blocks for sli. Atm is there any alternatives for 6800 water cooling?

[Mariachi]

Grayson Carlyle,
Do you think OCZ's 520w is also a quality PSU?
And what do mean by writing "2x2"? Do you mean 2xcpu/2xgpu?
Because if so, I don't have to worry because i'm only getting 2gpus.

[LarsK]

I have just bought an OCZ 520W psu, primarily because of the highly adjustable rails. As I'm not really any good with a soldering iron, primarily because of arthritis in my left hand unfortunately.

I am currently using a PC Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 510, and it has done an excellent job so far. This morning I decided to test the 2 psu's in my system. I added a 80W pelt for the gfx card, just to pull some more juice. System is the same as in my sig.

I tested both psu's running dual prime torture test, affinity set to "0" and "1" respectively, while also copying approx 20 GB af data from one HD to another, and running the 3dmark03 test 4 (nature) @ 1600x1200. I did this for ½ hour on both psu's. Then I played Doom 3 for approx ½ hour as well.

Both pulled almost exactly the same amount of power from the socket, 560W for the PC P&C, and 570W for the OCZ. Also all rails (3.3, 5 and 12V) hardly fluctuated any on either psu. I monitored voltages with MBM (I know it's not the best option, but I don't have a multimeter) and both of them performed very well, and had almost identical min/max values, both showing very vey little fluctuation.

Only difference I found was that the OCZ is much quieter than the PC P&C. The PC P&C does get quite loud when it's pushed, which I think my system rather does, comparativly speaking at least.

I don't think any of these 2 psu's would have a problem running dual opteron/xeon's and SLI setups. Not at default speeds at least. I probably wouldn't add a pelt or 2 though.... ;)

[drcrawn]

FX-53 is rated for 80W, FX-55 is 100W, A64s are in the 70 to 80W range (note that in general, they consume less than that). 6800U is 120W+, X800XT is 100W+

2 Cards in SLI will draw more than 2 A64s. HDDs don't pull much, relatively speaking, and FDDs are negligible.

So yes, 1 CPU, 2 GPU would be fine on a quality PSU like the PC P&C 510, but probably not on a low quality one. I'd want a 600W for 2X2 though.

pcpc 510 does 650 watts max if you can get it cool enough...

[saaya]

Why not get the FX53 which will be cheaper than the FX55? FX chips are unlocked and you can run the FX53 CPU at FX55 speed at defalt voltage?

some fx53 chips are the same as fx55 chips, yes, but the older ones are not, they wont oc as high as the fx55 chips as they dont have ss.

Didnt a 6800U use like 12XW Load?(The whole card?)

2xopterons + the whole mobo+fans+HDD's+DVD/CD drive and floppy...

Remember i dont think this is a bench rigg... more like a PC ;) just insane...

Hes probably gonna play games and so on...

I am 120% sure that a 500W PSU cant pull 2xOC'ed opterons 2xOC'ed 6800U's and the rest of system...

And if he Vmods sumthin thats even more...

A GOOD 350W PSU can pull a 6800U+new CPU.. And then you have a OC bottleneck...

So i dunno how the hell you would find 1x500W to pull all that system...

And if a system needs 550W then u give it a 650-750W PSU so that you have some extra ;)
120% sure? how so? you dont even know how much watts a 6800U pulls so i highly doubt your 120% :P

a 6800U sucks around 70W under full load NOT 120W!

Are you sure??

I thought that X800XT was like 10XW load and 6800U was 12XW load??? At default...

But i still dont believe that when a 300W PSU cant pull 1xCPU+1X6800U why a 500W then should pull 2x of each ;) Even OC'ed... Hehe... You cant do it ;)

mini, please! you dont know the facts but say your DEFINATELY SURE or 120% SURE about some things, how are we supposed to take you serious? :P

Saw this at PCP&C's site:
"Guaranteed to Power any Single or Dual CPU System With up to Twelve Drives!"
(TurboCool XXX 510 units)....

Well, I don't plan to get Dual CPU, but i'll have Dual GPU.
So I guess that 2x6800U's consume less power than 2xA64's, so i'll be perfect with the SLI right? even with extreme overclock (Turbo-Cool510 supplies 38A on the 12V, 650W of total power, and you can adjust rails also). BTW I don't have 12 drives, not even close. I'll have like 1-2HDD's, 1 optical drive, and a Soundcard.

Sayaa:
I only saw one person that had both PCPC and both OCZ, and said the OCZ was better, And that was Craig here in the XS; but he was unlucky....
Also I saw someone that got a DOA unit, burned from inside, but he was unlucky too.
NEVER saw other cases like the 2 ones above.

I never said the OCZ was bad, but I understood that PCPC's are the best.
I saw many threads and my conclusion was that PCPC is best and the most expensive.
The OCZ is good for the money. But if you want the best (PCPC) you must pay.

I don't care about noise, I want THE BEST sheer performance.
And i'm sure Macci could have done that record with a PCP&C, maybe shipment costs to Finland are expensive :)

Best regards,
Roy (and sorry for the b4d english :()
i think fugger killed two pcpnc 510Ws and is now running an ocz 520W and has no problem :P

theres a reason why quite some of the last ocing records were made with the ocz 520W ;) fugger uses it, i think opp uses it, macci uses it, and dont ricky and pedro use it as well?

6800U is 120W+, X800XT is 100W+
QUOTE]
thats NOT true! where did you read that?

[QUOTE=drcrawn]pcpc 510 does 650 watts max if you can get it cool enough...
well yeah, but think about the heat from one cpu and two cards in the system! and 650W is the spike! it cant power 650W 24/7! at least its not built to do that and i doubt it would last long and have very stable rails.

any brand 500W psu should be enough for an oced sli system with one cpu!

when it comes to two cpus i would rather get a higher rated psu, but i think even a 500W psu from a good manufacturer can run a dual opteron sli system.

[skitzogamer]

Guys, it's all about the (get ready).

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 ETX

The problem is that it's about 11" long and weighs nine pounds. You might need a new case for that. But "Dragon" cases might be able to handle it. Here's a picture of it in an Alienware I think. Alienware uses PC Power & Cooling PSUs in their computers so that could be it.

Alienware Picture (http://www.alienware.com/Images/intro_page_images/sli_alx_open_big.jpg)

Yes, it's Xbox huge.

What's kind of funny is that Alienware is building a proprietary dual video card system (the "X2" motherboard, their video hub, and the whole ALX line). But then they come out with nVidia's answer to dual video cards, in the ALX. Talk about irony.

I read about the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 ETX in the overclocking part of these forums. Here's (http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43046) the link to that thread. I just love the idea of this PSU. It's designed for 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs at the same time. There's one downfall...

$400.00 + your first born child + your soul (ok, ok, just your $400).

Overclocking and SLI system wil be hard to cool. There isn't any room for any sort of aircooling. Water is the only way to go. You can't do any kind of extreme cooling because there isn't enough room. I don't think that the SLI can adequately cool itself with stock coolers unless there is a fan blowing on them from the side of the case or something like that because there is a very narrow gap between the top of one 6800 Ultra's cooler and the back of the next one. Dual 6800 GT's could cool themselves pretty well but that's it. It would also be hard to mount Danger Den's NV-68 Waterblock on the two cards because the nozzels point up. You would need a normal water block and the stock RAM heatsinks (they are independant fron the CPU heatsink and fan) or aftermarket heatsinks.

The only reason to buy a SLI system is to run a system that can run any game at max visual quality with more than playable framerates. There's no reason to get it for anything else. It wouldn't make a very good overclocker due to the orientation of the video cards unless you use water. Then it could overclock, but a water-cooling setup is expensive but it could be done.

I myself will most defienently be getting a top of the line SLI rig (when I have the money) but I'm going to wait for the next generation (probley when I'll have the money) to see what else comes out ( a ATi solution maybe) and then make my desicion. I'm a very conservative person and not an early adopter of new technology.

- Skitzo

Note: I popped this into Microsoft word to spell-check it and discovered it was over a page long.

Edit: Wow, this is only my first post, w00t.

[saaya]

Guys, it's all about the (get ready).

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 ETX

The problem is that it's about 11" long and weighs nine pounds. You might need a new case for that. But "Dragon" cases might be able to handle it. Here's a picture of it in an Alienware I think. Alienware uses PC Power & Cooling PSUs in their computers so that could be it.

Alienware Picture (http://www.alienware.com/Images/intro_page_images/sli_alx_open_big.jpg)

Yes, it's Xbox huge.

What's kind of funny is that Alienware is building a proprietary dual video card system (the "X2" motherboard, their video hub, and the whole ALX line). But then they come out with nVidia's answer to dual video cards, in the ALX. Talk about irony.

I read about the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 ETX in the overclocking part of these forums. Here's (http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43046) the link to that thread. I just love the idea of this PSU. It's designed for 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs at the same time. There's one downfall...

$400.00 + your first born child + your soul (ok, ok, just your $400).

Overclocking and SLI system wil be hard to cool. There isn't any room for any sort of aircooling. Water is the only way to go. You can't do any kind of extreme cooling because there isn't enough room. I don't think that the SLI can adequately cool itself with stock coolers unless there is a fan blowing on them from the side of the case or something like that because there is a very narrow gap between the top of one 6800 Ultra's cooler and the back of the next one. Dual 6800 GT's could cool themselves pretty well but that's it. It would also be hard to mount Danger Den's NV-68 Waterblock on the two cards because the nozzels point up. You would need a normal water block and the stock RAM heatsinks (they are independant fron the CPU heatsink and fan) or aftermarket heatsinks.

The only reason to buy a SLI system is to run a system that can run any game at max visual quality with more than playable framerates. There's no reason to get it for anything else. It wouldn't make a very good overclocker due to the orientation of the video cards unless you use water. Then it could overclock, but a water-cooling setup is expensive but it could be done.

I myself will most defienently be getting a top of the line SLI rig (when I have the money) but I'm going to wait for the next generation (probley when I'll have the money) to see what else comes out ( a ATi solution maybe) and then make my desicion. I'm a very conservative person and not an early adopter of new technology.

- Skitzo

Note: I popped this into Microsoft word to spell-check it and discovered it was over a page long.

Edit: Wow, this is only my first post, w00t.

welcome to XtremeSystems :toast:

that psu looks fine, but i think its overkill, even for a dual opteron sli rig... a 500 or 600W psu is probably enough to run and oc it perfect stable :)

so i wouldnt get an 800W psu for 400$ as you dont need it now. and in 1 or 2 years or even later when you need one you can get it for 200$ or less i guess... :D

i dont think alienwares cooling will be very efficient and allow you to oc the cards very much... the waterblocks seem to have a really bad design and the radiator is way too small and odesnt get enough air through it.

and why shouldnt you be able to oc the cards with stock cooling? just add 2 120mm fans in the front and back of the case and you should be absolutely fine :)

and mark my words, there WILL be compressor cooled sli cards :D
its not THAT little room between the cards...

and there might be modded dangerden 6800 blocks, but then again, thats 250$ for the waterblocks :eek:

and you forgot an important point what you can use an sli system for :D
getting the highest possible scores in benchmarks ^^

[skitzogamer]

Yeah, I'm not really trying to break any records like all you crazies. :P

I'm more of a gamer and like to play games that look really pretty but whenever I get this beast I'll gladly run some benchmarks for you guys. I've been pondering for a while now how to effectivley water cool an SLI system. You would need a case with enough intake fans and enough space for this (http://www.dangerden.com/mall2/more_1pics.asp?fmmore=246) .

I figure you could use a Lian-Li PC-70 with all 6 80mm fans as intake and mount the radiator on the top. Then have the three 120mm fans on the radiator be exhaust for the system. And then use a 600GPH pump to move all the water through quickly. You could probley overclock the Geforce 6800 Ultras' cores to about 480MHz. From what I've seen that's about as fast as a Radeon X800XT P.E.

- Skitzo

[Rukee]

I`m working on a way to add another Vapo and mount them up. ;)

[Grayson Carlyle]

6800U is 120W+, X800XT is 100W+

thats NOT true! where did you read that?


Anandtech included it in their very first 6800U vs X800XT article, as there was still the huge controversy over the fact that the 6800 series needed 2 power connecters and 420W PSUs supposedly. They concluded that, the 6800U could barely get by with 1 power connecter, and could definately not if you were to overclock them at all. They figured nVidia were just covering their asses so that everyone didn't blow their cards when they took the core to 475+

[saaya]

Yeah, I'm not really trying to break any records like all you crazies. :P

I'm more of a gamer and like to play games that look really pretty but whenever I get this beast I'll gladly run some benchmarks for you guys. I've been pondering for a while now how to effectivley water cool an SLI system. You would need a case with enough intake fans and enough space for this (http://www.dangerden.com/mall2/more_1pics.asp?fmmore=246) .

I figure you could use a Lian-Li PC-70 with all 6 80mm fans as intake and mount the radiator on the top. Then have the three 120mm fans on the radiator be exhaust for the system. And then use a 600GPH pump to move all the water through quickly. You could probley overclock the Geforce 6800 Ultras' cores to about 480MHz. From what I've seen that's about as fast as a Radeon X800XT P.E.

- Skitzo

uh! why waste so much money on that rad?
get two dd dual heatercores for 35$ each ;)
much better cooling power with the same amount of fans, and you can even reduce the amount of fans or their speed to either reduce the costs or keeop the system silent with the two dd dual heatercores... just like as want it :D

I`m working on a way to add another Vapo and mount them up. ;)
that comming form a guy who squeezed 3 compressors in one case is like knowing its already done :D

maybe even current vapos can do it... maybe we just need to mod the head so the tubes leave the head on the side? ive seen such a mod already... all you need is the right tools :)

Anandtech included it in their very first 6800U vs X800XT article, as there was still the huge controversy over the fact that the 6800 series needed 2 power connecters and 420W PSUs supposedly. They concluded that, the 6800U could barely get by with 1 power connecter, and could definately not if you were to overclock them at all. They figured nVidia were just covering their asses so that everyone didn't blow their cards when they took the core to 475+

read the xbitlabs article! :)
they meassured the power consumption and its around 70W for an ultra :)

the anadtech numbers were based on how many amps a psu SHOULD have to run a 6800U, and maybe the early 6800us were running a slightly higher vgpu? or the memory ran hotter? who knows... all i know is that the xbitlabs numbers a 99% safe to be correct. :)

[Mariachi]

Skitzo, New generation cards are like years away... So your lwait is like years time.
Even NF4 + PCI-E + SLI is not out yet... :P I dont can or want to wait years time, so long.

BTW, The PSU that powers Alienware's ALX SLI system is Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe.

PS - ATI doesn't have a solution for Nvidia's SLI, for now.

[Mini]

But saaya ive always respected what you say...

But if a 300W is not enough for 1x 6800U system stock...

Then why should 500W be enough for a dual 6800U and dual CPU rig OC'ed???

Edit: Doesnt alienwares SLI work for both ATI and Nvidia???

Thats what i thought anyhow???

[Mariachi]

Alienware's ALX ARRAY supports ATI and Nvidia cards both,
But now they moved to SLI based systems, so only Nvidia.

[rick_fx]

some fx53 chips are the same as fx55 chips

Such as OPP's fx-53! :D

[del_fuego]

Hello everyone,
Great forum, love it. I too (like everyone else) is waiting for the 2x6800U SLI setup to stop being just a hazy mirage in the distance.

When i get it (eventually) i plan to water cool those babies with these.
I thought you'd like to know? :)

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CoolMaticNV40

Laters, dEl.

[saaya]

But saaya ive always respected what you say...

But if a 300W is not enough for 1x 6800U system stock...

Then why should 500W be enough for a dual 6800U and dual CPU rig OC'ed???

Edit: Doesnt alienwares SLI work for both ATI and Nvidia???

Thats what i thought anyhow???

when a single system needs a 350W psu that doesnt mean a dual cpu sli system will need a 700W psu... the cpu and gpu power consume make the biggest parts, but not the netire system.

and nvidia and ati recommend a 350W psu wich means even a crappy noname 350W psu should be able to power a system with their cards!

we are talking about quality 500W psus here, in crappy noname rating sthats a 600W or 700W psu... get what i mean?

i think a 500W psu will be enough for a dual opteron sli rig... we shall see :D

Hello everyone,
Great forum, love it. I too (like everyone else) is waiting for the 2x6800U SLI setup to stop being just a hazy mirage in the distance.

When i get it (eventually) i plan to water cool those babies with these.
I thought you'd like to know? :)

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CoolMaticNV40

Laters, dEl.

hey! welcome to XtremeSystems :toast:

those coolers are not very good! i would not buy those innovatek blocks! innovatek waterblocks are almost the worst blocks you can buy from all 50 different waterblocks that exist LOL! and they are expensive!

[del_fuego]

Cheers saaya :toast:

I hear you load and clear buddy, Danger Den it is then ;) unless you can point me to something better?

Peace, dEl

[Tony]

We have a 600W unit all ready to ship, reviews out soon. Regarding does the 520PS cope...it does OK but increasing loads from boards and SLI video cards are going to push it even harder. The 520 is one of the most powerful 520's out there, ask OPP, fugger , Macci etc what they think of it and im sure they will say its awesome, thing is they will all probably want the 600W unit also, then the 700 then the 800 then the 1KW...LOL when will it end?????
Regarding powering dually rigs, we have a few out there with system builders and they love it...none have reported issues with any of the rigs they have built or tested...all were heavily loaded also.

[Mini]

http://www.ocztechnology.com/aboutocz/press/2004/113

Here is a press release ;)

Saaya: I think a good 500W can run it... But if you Xtreme OC a a FX-55 and 2x6800U then wouldnt it have troubles???

They say minimum 350W stock... There is a big difference on a 6800U 400/1200 and FX-53@2.4 and a 3.0Ghz FX-53 and 500/1350 6800U :D

but lets wait and see...

Bigtoe: You work at OCZ right?? Hasnt OCZ 520W PSU been tested on a SLI rig???

Or a SLI OC'ed rig???

[Mariachi]

So now I dunno which PSU I should take: :(
PC P&C 510 Deluxe Express OR OCZ PowerStream 520W?
Which will be better powering a A64/NF4/SLI/4drives/Audigy/Input etc. system?
Remember i'm going to do hardcore overclocking, so I need the highest and stablest rales @ load.

Or should I wait for OCZ 600W PSU (a higherwatt PCPC will be WAY out of budget),
but it will take some time till OCZ's PSU will arrive to my country (even the 520w isn't here YET).

[Mini]

Mariachi: What are you hurrying for?? Do you have SLI&NF4??? Hehe...

I would go for the 600W ;)

Just to be safe...

If no other choice order it from another country...

[Troopah]

Omg this thread owns man. love all the postings, good reading!

have two questions:
im gonna upgrade to 2x 6800gt and run an 3200+ 90nm on the nf4, will my 480 TB do the job for me?

And, ppl telling me to wait for nvidia to release their new vid cards, aren't they a little too far away? :P
This upgrade will be bought in jan-march

[Mini]

I think the new Nvidia cards will be released Q4 2004 or Q1 2005 ;)

But i would wait to...

SLI is still new... I think that drivers or whatever need more fixing... And it probably has a few bugs again since its new...

But i dont think a 3200+ is enough ;)

It will probably be a bottleneck...

I would wait a little bit a see... And to jan-march ATI and Nvidia have new cards... PCI Express will be more popular.. New CPU's are coming in the new year... New GFX cards...

Good times ;)

Wait a bit and see what will happen... But if your first thinking about getting SLI to jan-march thats fine ;)

Then follow up on SLI until then...

[quicksilverXP]

Wouldn't these coolers be better?

http://snt-systems.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=137

They have the optionof straight fittings since elbow fittings will be harder to route in SLI.

[skitzogamer]

Wow, that's the sexiest waterblock I have ever seen. :banana:

[drcrawn]

I'm not knocking anybody for getting SLI, but I don't think its worth the money, especially when games haven't even been totally optimized for current hardware anyway. I think anyone with x800pro, 6800gt or above would be wise to sit on this one. Besides, I still think SLI will be CPU limited... not to mention the space concerns, power consumption, noise, inability to overclock greatly, and questionable upgradeability. ( Alienware has already abandoned their proprietary dual card system?? someone?)

[saaya]

Cheers saaya :toast:

I hear you load and clear buddy, Danger Den it is then ;) unless you can point me to something better?

Peace, dEl

actually i would recommend you to get a silverprop fusion gpu block or a maze4 gpu block (the maze4 gpu block uses a different design that the crappy maze4 cpu block design!) together with some large copper ramsinks and then have a fan laying on both cards blowing or sucking air to/from the cards :)

both of those gpu blocks have a great design that was stolen/copied from cathars early gpu block designs afaik (he made a prototype and dd and silverprop copied it before he ever made the final block, so he never made the block)

the dd 6800 block uses the same crappy design as the maze4 cpu waterblock! the maze4 is def a much better block! dd is really makeing a step backwards in their waterblock evolution there!

and they both cost around 50$! with ramsinks and a fan thats around HALF of what you would pay for those dd 6800 blocks!

and about those other huge blocks... watercooling the memory has not ever proven to be effective. most memory does not oc any higher with watercooling than with good ramsinks and a fan blowing over it.

so those huge blocks only cost more money, are harder to mount and you have a huge load of metal bending your videocard and probably braking it and maybe the mainboard and other parts if you should ever accidently move your case :P hehe


and about the dual opteron sli rig... i dont know... im sure a good 500W psu can power it... but when it comes to xtreme ocing it would probably limit you, you are right...

when ti comes to a single opteron sli rig i think a good 500W psu will be enough even for xtreme overclocking though...

and mariachi, ask people who had both psus and read reviews about them... hard to tell wich one is better... if you cant decide and get a clear message for the people and reviews then base your decision on the price. both psus are great and will be enough for your rig, you cant really go wrong :)

and about the refresh... i think ati and nvidia are both working in night shifts to get their new cards ready :D

both are rumored to get released before christmas, but who knows?

i guess both will not be ready to really sell them in masses on christmas or before, so they will probably keep tweaking and maybe make a paper release...

and im sure both have review cards ready right now! and as soon as nvidia or ati only open their mouth the other one will shout "we have new cards as well! look at me ! look at me! give me attention!"

:D

[Maelstrom2160]

I'm not knocking anybody for getting SLI, but I don't think its worth the money, especially when games haven't even been totally optimized for current hardware anyway. I think anyone with x800pro, 6800gt or above would be wise to sit on this one. Besides, I still think SLI will be CPU limited... not to mention the space concerns, power consumption, noise, inability to overclock greatly, and questionable upgradeability. ( Alienware has already abandoned their proprietary dual card system?? someone?)

still the option to stick a second GPU in your system now or half way down the road to the next generation of GPU's isnt exactly a let down is it

when it comes down to it, if your a gamer who plays at 1600/1200 (or higher) resolution you'll know that at no time in the last 3 or so years has the technology been there (at a reasonable price) to render the latest generation of games at high res with MAX settings decently! at least now the options there to have it your own way (or if ya like ya can get 3000fps on q3 at 640\480, cringe)

so if ya go for couple of 2nd grade cards like the current 6800GT's and x800pro's ya only have to pay 25-30% more for the two GTs than ya would for a single ultra or XT and ya get 60-80% more performance

gives ya a bit more breathing space aswell untill ya next gpu upgrade

so it aint so bad

[r3b0rN]

and about those other huge blocks... watercooling the memory has not ever proven to be effective. most memory does not oc any higher with watercooling than with good ramsinks and a fan blowing over it.i must have some dodgy memory or something, because my 9800 pro's memory was at 364.50 (stock=340) and they were burning hot, about 110C, and thats how hot the tweakmonster bga ramsinks are...

so if any1 could point me at some bga COPPER ramsinks with more fins and are thinner and longer, it'd be great :toast:

[Troopah]

lol!!!!!! the heatsinks were 110c? aren't the mems warmer then? ^_^ a couple of celsius ^^
how can they be that warm? ^^

[Mariachi]

Sayaa:
So you think a PCPC510/OCZ520 will power my singleCPU/DualGPU rig perfectly, even in extreme clocks @ full load? That's good to here, thank you :)
From what I saw my impressions were that the PCPC was better than OCZ, but let's go over it for now... My question is: Do you think a OCZ 600 will do better on my upcoming rig? Thanks in advance.

And when ATI's and Nvidia's next generation GPU's should hit the market?
IIRC this upcoming "new generation" is just a lil overpowerd version of the current cards, with minor improvements (like R9800P -> 9800XT), doesn't it?
The new generation that will come afterwards should be next "evolution"; 90nm and maybe SM4.0?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Mariachi

[enzoR]

wtf 110C? thats like thermal meltdown already were u shovein 4.5v into it or something?

[r3b0rN]

ill get a infra red (is that what they are?) temp sensor if there a decent price and double check. but when im playing doom 3 and touch the ramsinks, i have to pull my finger away instantly, its painfull.

and no its just stock volts, the card has got a volt mod i can switch on... seeing things melt is always good fun :D :p:

[saaya]

i must have some dodgy memory or something, because my 9800 pro's memory was at 364.50 (stock=340) and they were burning hot, about 110C, and thats how hot the tweakmonster bga ramsinks are...

so if any1 could point me at some bga COPPER ramsinks with more fins and are thinner and longer, it'd be great :toast:

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/ram-19.html
:D

bend the fins a bit to the sides so they look like the zalman flower heatsinks, and you have the best ramsinks money can buy :D


Sayaa:
So you think a PCPC510/OCZ520 will power my singleCPU/DualGPU rig perfectly, even in extreme clocks @ full load? That's good to here, thank you :)
From what I saw my impressions were that the PCPC was better than OCZ, but let's go over it for now... My question is: Do you think a OCZ 600 will do better on my upcoming rig? Thanks in advance.

And when ATI's and Nvidia's next generation GPU's should hit the market?
IIRC this upcoming "new generation" is just a lil overpowerd version of the current cards, with minor improvements (like R9800P -> 9800XT), doesn't it?
The new generation that will come afterwards should be next "evolution"; 90nm and maybe SM4.0?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Mariachi yes, the next cards comming out will be refresh cards, the same cards with just higher clocks (slightly). there will be at least one more real generation of cards (not a refresh of current cards) before we get sm4.0 aka wgf (windows graphics foundation afaik) so its a great time to buy a new high end card now and it should serv you for a long time. (if i only had money :/ LOL :D)

the ocz600 might be better for your rig... if you have the money go for it... it will be strong enough to upgrade to an even stronger card later on to run it in sli...



ill get a infra red (is that what they are?) temp sensor if there a decent price and double check. but when im playing doom 3 and touch the ramsinks, i have to pull my finger away instantly, its painfull.

and no its just stock volts, the card has got a volt mod i can switch on... seeing things melt is always good fun :D :p:

same is the hynix memory on my 9500np@9700pro, bu its only around 45°C or 50°C, thats enough to burn your fingers after a part of a second.

lets even say its 60°C, but i really doubt its 110°C hot, i think at that temp the bga chips could unsolder themselves and just pop off :lol:

[Mariachi]

OCZ600W costs pretty much the same like a PCPC510 or even cheaper, so i'll think about it. Regarding its specifications; how much regulation, ripple and efficiency? 40A on the 12v sounds very nice.

About the GPU's - I'm very glad to here this, as I really hoped that SM4.0 will be released as late as possible, 2 generation of cards before we see it is years away - I'm extremely happy because I hate waiting for something new... I waited too much already, I want to buy my computer right now :( And no, a refreshed version of card doesn't count as something new :D 2/3 generations is what; like 1-2 years? i'll be able to buy a whole new comp by then :D

I'll be extremely perfect with my 2x6800U's.
I can't wait for my new rig :slobber:

Best regards,
Mariachi

[r3b0rN]

http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/ram-19.html
:D

bend the fins a bit to the sides so they look like the zalman flower heatsinks, and you have the best ramsinks money can buy :D

same is the hynix memory on my 9500np@9700pro, bu its only around 45°C or 50°C, thats enough to burn your fingers after a part of a second.

lets even say its 60°C, but i really doubt its 110°C hot, i think at that temp the bga chips could unsolder themselves and just pop off :lol:cheers for the link to those ramsinks, ill try and get them delievered to aus.

oh and as for the temp, im probably just an exaggerating pussy :p: but ill get a sensor sooner or later and see.

[Troopah]

where'd you read about the new line of vid cards released by ati/nvidia?
i'd be dying to get to see a roadmap from both of them ^^
any info etc?

[saaya]

hmmm i cant really point you to anything usefull...some of the stuff if not all of it is just based on some people who say they heard that some guy said yadda yadda yadda :D and some is based on some guys who spend their free time drawing their own fantasy roadmaps at home and then put them on the internet :lol:

then somebody sees it and thinks its a leaked roadmap blabla :D

the latest ive heard is that atis new cards will be made either in normal 130nm or 110nm because its cheaper than 130nm low-k. the clockspeeds are expected to be almost the same, maybe 20mhz higher or something like that...

about nvidias cards... there are too many rumors to eally say anything about them. some say they added pipes and vertex units, some say they improved the math units on the pipes, some say they will be the same design but clocked higher...

[Troopah]

hahaha... yeah i know that story m8, "i know a guy who knows a guy who has a dude who is etc etc" ^^
yeah sure, well the increased pipes for nvidia would be great, im really loving my 6800gt, not that i wanna brag at all but... it does 450/1300 3dmarkstable with nvidia silencer.. ^___^
im not upgrading until march.. think i should wait any longer than that and upgrade?

[ctgilles]

And 2 is always better :D

[saaya]

hahaha... yeah i know that story m8, "i know a guy who knows a guy who has a dude who is etc etc" ^^
yeah sure, well the increased pipes for nvidia would be great, im really loving my 6800gt, not that i wanna brag at all but... it does 450/1300 3dmarkstable with nvidia silencer.. ^___^
im not upgrading until march.. think i should wait any longer than that and upgrade?

why upgrade in the first place? :D a 6800gt should be fine for at least 1 year if not 2 or 3 years when coupled with a fast cpu :)