Making an evap block

[kryptobs2000]

I am starting to build my first phase changer, I had the project over at extremeoverclocking, but me and jason had a dissagreement, I do not want to go over there anymore, and plus I am banned so I can't. So I'm bringing my project over here now.

I'm just in the process of getting everything I need together. Right now I have no tools, or an a/c, I should be getting things soon, if anyone has any recommendations feel free to suggest.



Anyways, I'm just wondering, where can I get some blocks of copper to make my evaporator block from?

[blinky]

its cheap here:
http://dangerden.com/mall/Metal/metal_stock.asp

[kryptobs2000]

Is that a good size? 2x2x1? Not sure what that is in mm. I was thinking of around 40-50mm squared.

I was planning to just use a dremel to cut it all out. I guess I'll just turn this into a tools in general rec. thread.

All I have so far is... well nothing, but I'm pretty sure I can get refrigeration units and things from my dad (he works for a vending machine company, and can just go up to coca cola and be liek 'it broke gimme this and that.' np. I was gonna use a compressor for a vacuum pump as recommended by JSU to cut costs.

I don't have ALOT of money, but I don't want cheap crap that isn't gonna get the job done right, just nothing way out of the way. It'll probably take awhile to get everything together simply because of money too, so keep that in mind.

[blinky]

2"x2" is 5.08cm by 5.08cm

[FUGGER]

Welcome to XS.

You can get two pieces of that copper and dremmel them out. It will take a long time but it is possible.

[HawainPanda]

Hey kryptobs2000!...saw u there a while ago, wondered what happened to your project, nyways...the forum here, lol, just look at how many posts there are in here! its awsome!
nyways, for tools, read lardarse's guides, there's a tool guide, its really thorough

fugger, i noticed that you don't keep all the past posts and threads?
can we keep them for future reference? thx (if they are and somehow..im blind or something, then nm)

[JSU]

kryptobs2000, nice to see ya here. I get my copper from onlinemetals.com so you might want to check the prices there before buying.....

[kryptobs2000]

oh, I forgot I did read lardarses guide, thats what I was going to follow when I made this. I know the tools I need, just don't know where to get them from, wondering if anyone had any rec. of places with good deals or something.

[blinky]

oh, I forgot I did read lardarses guide, thats what I was going to follow when I made this. I know the tools I need, just don't know where to get them from, wondering if anyone had any rec. of places with good deals or something.i got a flaring/swaging tool from OSH, i got guages from ebay, i got tube cutters, and benders, and mapp torches from friend, u can get the mapp at home depot, and the cutters and benders at any hardware store, osh has em.

[kryptobs2000]

Think I picked out everything I am getting except for the guages. I found a tube cutter and flaring tool at home depot. I'll be using a compressor as a vacuum pump. I'll either buy a mapp torch at home depot, or borrow a friends or someone, lots of people I know got em.

I looked on ebay for guages but didn't really find much. just searched for pressure guages, not much luck. And I need pipe benders still, but I can find those too, just didn't look too much.

Will I beable to braze everything with a mapp torch or is that not gonna do it? Was reading on another thread how it's really hard to braze the evaporator block, and it takes along time. I've never brazed anything before, is that gonna make a big dissadvantage for me or is it just something that takes time to do not too much skill? for example, soldering took me awhile to get good at because everything was so small and hard to work with.

[kayl]

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17740&stc=1
i use gauges, pipe cutter, pliers (very handy) map- gas torch (with gas oven propane to braze evaps)and a compressor as vacuum pump
the main trick with brazing is that both surfaces have to be hot enough, but not too hot before start brazing.
with the evap heat it with the gas oven untill its start to get little red.
can use map gas bottle to help out if want.
as soo as the block starts to take solder turn gas oven off and braze block.
one at temp it will take less than a minute to braze.

[kayl]

Welcome to XS.

You can get two pieces of that copper and dremmel them out. It will take a long time but it is possible.

pre drill hundres of holes.
ie if ya gonna use a 5mm dremal bit, predrill channels with a 4mm and use cutting fluid, cuts easier.
i use CRC WD40 (stuff ya spray on bike chains, losen bolts that sorta product might have a different name for it where you are)

[kryptobs2000]

Nah, I know what ur talking about, got a few cans in my garage, whats that for, just a lubrication I guess so it dosn't get jammed up?

[gkiing]

yeah, copper likes to jam drill bits, especially when its hot.

[HawainPanda]

i bought two gallons of this:
http://img19.exs.cx/img19/7640/coolant.jpg
its highly rated :D

[kayl]

yes and the dremal seems to cut easier.
i must warn ya drilling and dremaling a dd block will take ya a few hours.
and its not as easy as you think drill bits jump holes, bits snap etc.
not untill me 3rd dd block did i manage to get the block not to come with drill bits stuck in them

[gkiing]

kayl's absolutely right, I had a big problem on minebecause the drill b it kept jumping and bending into the hole beside it (and thats on a heavy duty drill press)

[kryptobs2000]

Ok, gonna order my blocks to make the evap out of. Is this one ok?

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4317&step=4&showunits=inches

basically it about 50mm x 1 foot x 15mm. Is that going to be too big (height wise, 30mm high total). And would it be a bad idea to get a 1 foot block, and just cut it up. I'd beable to make a few blocks out of it at least 2. Or if I mess up I'd have more right there. Am I going to beable to do this with a dremel? So diff. size or keep it? Price isn't bad either from others that I've seen.

edit: jw, when you braze the evaporator shut, do you just braze the outside or what? I don't see whats keeping it so that none of the channels on the inside have leaks into the other channels, or is this not really a problem?

[HawainPanda]

i dunno if you can cut copper into peices with a dremmel...and make them nice edges, if the edges aren't nice,gives more sa exposed to losing the coolness(mite be small, dunno, but its good to be safe) nyways, you should try getting it, if you can cut it, i dunno, maybe try home depot, im sure they have tools to cut, and im sure if you purchase some tools from their they won?t mind doing it for you :P nyways its good to have more pieces, you can practice, take a look at kayls old blocks and new ones :D

[kryptobs2000]

gives more sa exposed to losing the coolness(mite be small, dunno, but its good to be safe) nyways,

what does that mean? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I can't really make sense of it.

[HawainPanda]

Just like you want the most surface area inside the block so it can get a lot colder, I think it would make sense to have minimal surface area outside the block to loss its coldness, I imagine that if you use a dremel its gonna be very uneven and jagged, it?ll be hard to insulate and more of the block will be exposed to the insulation
That?s what im thinking, sorry for confusing you
maybe the effect is minimal, buT its just my opinion

[kryptobs2000]

oh, yeah I see your point, as I was reading it, I was thinking 'that would probably be harder to insulate' because there might be gaps and air pockets unless you use a foam or something. Maybe I could sand it down with an electric sander or soemthing if it's not too bad. I dunno, I was looking at online metals.com I'll check home depot sometime and see if they got any and if so, I'm sure they'd beable to cut it for me.

I've been kinda busy, so I havn't had much time to go up there, I've meant to go for a couple of things. My phone just broke, not sure why, could be cause I beat it against the floor in anger that it would not call.... but who knows. I hate sprint.

[gkiing]

I've found that its best to dremel channels first and then drill holes for the block with a drill press (i got that idea from kayl).

you can get copper blocks pretty cheap (i got eneough for 2 blocks for 20$ cdn) from most machine shops or foundry's, they usually have lots of scrap around.

[kryptobs2000]

Ok, well today I went over my dads house to pick up a refridgeration unit. He said he had two he wanted to show me. First he had a window unit, which was about 5000-6000btu's. Then he goes 'here, I have this other one' and we walk out into the back of his yard. He takes me over to it. It's a nice unit. 1hp compressor, not sure about the size. I don't know much about this as I've said. But the unit he is showing me, it's just laid out, around at least 30 other complete ones, all really good condition. And he had about 40-60 compressors just sitting around in total I'd say. I had no idea. All great condition. I told him what tools I'd be needing, and he said he could get everything for me from his work (he works at a vending machine company). And I know they'd all be really good quality tools too. I was just gonna get another compressor and use it as a vacuum pump as well.

The unit I got has it split into two capillary tubes and then one goes into have of the coil and the other the other half, and 2 suction lines. I was planning to in the future make it also cool my videocard, but I guess I'll just do it now, since it's already set up like that. He is going to round up everything I need and I should have all the tools tonight. Only thing else that I will need would be two evaporator blocks. He also had a braided tube or w/e it is out in his shed and alot of insulation he didn't even know about lol. So looks I don't gotta buy a thing other than a dremel and the copper blocks.

[HawainPanda]

Your so lucky, lol, that?s so awesome!
Nyways save the 1hp, use a smaller compressor for ur vidcard, maybe later after you got some experience than you can do a dual evap


good luck!

[gkiing]

You should take the 1hp and make a dual evap cooler for cpu and gpu.

[kryptobs2000]

yeah, I mean it's already set up, so I don't see why not to just make it now. It's not really any harder on my part, just gotta do twice as much work for the evap and insulation and stuff. Nothing different that I'd have to learn to complicate things tho.

[HawainPanda]

well, i think u gotta think of a way to split the captube...did u see lardarse's guide?
he used an oil seperator

[kryptobs2000]

My cap tube is already split, thats what I'm saying. The way it works is, it comes out of the filter, then there are two cap tubes that split right after that, one goes into the top half of the evaporator, and the other goes into the bottom, it just splits the load. Then they both come out and form two suction lines which are then merged into one later on. I'm not sure the advantage of them doing this, but it works out for me so w/e.

I'll see if I can get a digital camera tomm or soemthing, and take some pics of it.

[gkiing]

you can split the captube by using a dual feed filter drier, its the pencil type and has two spots for captube to exit.

[kryptobs2000]

Gahahah It Is Split Lol

The unit I got has it split into two capillary tubes and then one goes into have of the coil and the other the other half, and 2 suction lines.

My cap tube is already split, thats what I'm saying. The way it works is, it comes out of the filter, then there are two cap tubes that split right after that

I'll get some pics tomm lol, my friend siad I can use his dads camera probably.


side note: I just found out my friends cat is dying, and well I already knew that. But she really loves the cat, and she said she can get the money, but I talked to her sister and she said she needed twice as much as she told me (2g's instead of 1). So I'm gonna try and help her. A similar situation happened when I was going to start this project back about 4 months ago when it was over at extreme overclocking (friends gf needed an abortion). But I'm gonna see what I can do about getting money. I don't think I'll let it affect this project though, as all this is going to cost me is maybe 30$ for some copper block, a couple y tubes, and I was planning to buy a 80$ dremel at home depot. So thats only a little over a 100$. Just wanted to kinda share my thoughts more than anything else, kinda worried/sad/dissapointed... and stuff about this.

[HawainPanda]

awww..best of luck to ur friends cat...god...2k?...dang what are they going to do to the cat?

[kayl]

i wouldnt recommend buying a length of copper.
if you think its hard to drill try and cut the stuff.
i tried with a hack saw to cut a 50mm x 50mm block in half, didnt even make a dent in the thing.

i ordered 7 blocks raw material (and didnt get them to machine the surfaces flat)
big mastake.
i made one and then took the rest to a machine shop and getting them to machine them flat.

took me 2hrs hand with corse sandpaper to get flat.
it cost me more in sand paper than to pay them to machine the surfaces flat.
if you look around can find a place that will cut the metal for ya and machine both surfaces.
then all you have to do if give it a quick sand and polish after brazing.

for now i would go with a single stage.
then when you get it to cool nice
then try a dual.
i have a 1HP rotary, one day i will go dual evap, but its a little more than just 2 cap tubes and 2 evaps.
1Hp compressor has room to learn with and get good temps.

[kryptobs2000]

You mean find a place to cut out the channels and everything for me too, or cut the block into the right size? You think I could find a place to do that (cut the channels)? How much did it cost you were you went?

What should I do if I don't make it a dual, just pinch the extra cap tube close and braze up the end of the other suction line or what?

awww..best of luck to ur friends cat...god...2k?...dang what are they going to do to the cat?

I think the cat has cancer. Some kinda lump or tumer they have to remove, I talked to her last night, she said she's thinking about just putting her to sleep, cause there's only a 50% chance it'd make it through surgery, and it definatly won't have it backs leg if it does. So she's not even sure what she wants to do. :(

[HawainPanda]

yeah, i think you can just do that...or...they sell driers with shraeder valves..u can try brazing one one, that way u can use it

nyways..best of luck to the cat

[LardArse]

Just cut off the pipe right before the filter/drier and braze on a new one with single cap tube outlet.

[kryptobs2000]

Just cut off the pipe right before the filter/drier and braze on a new one with single cap tube outlet.

but if I don't make it a dual now, I definatly plan to later, so why waste what is already there for me?


I was looking in the yellow pages, and I found a metal fabricator near me. I'm not sure what a 'fabricator' does, but you think they might beable to make the blocks for me, or at least give me cut copper blocks? I was going to call tommarrow, it's 5 now, so I figure they're closed, and I don't want to call if they are completely unrelated and I just sound like an idiot lol.

[gkiing]

I had the same experience with the sandpaper. There's still a few scratches in my dd block but I left them as tehy werent over the area that would contact the die.

If the cat is old and has had cancer its probably in pain, better to put it to sleep than to let it suffer. That happened to my last cat.

[kryptobs2000]

Got pics:

http://img68.exs.cx/img68/5114/monkey11.th.jpg (http://img68.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img68&image=monkey11.jpg) http://img68.exs.cx/img68/271/captube.th.jpg (http://img68.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img68&image=captube.jpg) http://img68.exs.cx/img68/2280/suction.th.jpg (http://img68.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img68&image=suction.jpg) http://img68.exs.cx/img68/6640/clabel.th.jpg (http://img68.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img68&image=clabel.jpg)

took a pic of myself since I had the camera:

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/2039/DSCF0475.th.jpg (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=DSCF0475.jpg)

[LardArse]

Its not exactly a waste either, as you should change out the filter on such an old rig anyways, plus it isn't too expensive a new filter.
And you'll be using a much smaller cap tube than that one so...

[kryptobs2000]

oh, so I need to get a new cap. tube anyways?

[gkiing]

The cap tube is probably too large, you need .026, .028, or .031" captube. For starting lengths 11' is about right for .031, 8' for .028, and 6' for .026.

[kayl]

i just mean get a place to cut metal to size want and machine surfaces flat.
you could do the channels yourself or pay someone, it wont be cheap and most places will only machine channels for ya if you get 5 or so done.
machineing for me i asked was $400 ouch
i had a 50mm x 50mm x25mm block cut to 15mm and 5mm to make me blocks

[kryptobs2000]

400, yeah, definatly will be channeling these out myself. How much was it for them just to cut it for you?

[gkiing]

im not sure but most machine shops are around 60$ an hour.

[kryptobs2000]

Well my 9700 pro died for like the 3rd time yesterday. :(. Screen gets all screwed up when I turn it on. I wanted to wait for a good nforce 4 mobo, and get a pci-e 6xxx and a 3500+ 90nm, but guess I'll get a 6800gt now and sell it and upgrade later. But that kinda sucks, I only got like 100$ right now. If anyone is selling a 6800gt or knows where to get one cheap lemme know (I'd prefer a bfg but not a big deal since I'll be selling it in 2-4 months most likely).

Anyways, I think I'm just gonna order 2 square blocks of copper off onlinemetals.com and dremel some channels out myself. 2 questions.

1.) Is it a big deal that there isn't going to be a lip to hold the top evaporator block on? Read somewhere posted by someone else, forget who, but they said theirs would come off alot and it's a really good idea to do it.

2.) What kinda bit/attachment should I use for cutting out the block?


aaaand.. I guess no. 3.) I was gonna get the block 50x50x20, what deminsions is good for the channels?

[HawainPanda]

Bits should be cheap for press drills, so u don?t have to worry too much about them, well not exactly cheap, they?ll def add up, but find carbide tipped, those are the best?with 2-3 flutes, hm wait, im not so sure about the flute things, they have those for router bits, no so sure about drill bits

[gkiing]

You can use any metal bit on a drill press just put some soap and water in the hole when you drilling and you should be fine. I drilled mine with a 1/4" bit and it only got stuck a few times, and I didnt break it either. Drill bits are cheap anyways. If you precut some "slices" with a dremel and cutoff wheel where the holes will go before you drill the holes it will make it easier because you wont have to drill them so close together and the bit wont slip and bend into the adjascent hole. I got a cheapo drill press from canadian tire for 39$ cdn (around 32 $us) and im just going to use it till it breaks, then maybe buy a mill or something when I can afford it. I've made 3 directdie blocks on it with no problems, just make sure that you use the slowest speed so you can get the most torque for cutting through the copper.

[kryptobs2000]

I don't have a drill press, I meant for my dremel, but you can get a drill press for only 39$ bucks? I thought they were a couple hundred?

[gkiing]

Well I bought the cheapest one in the store some JobMate brand. It's underpowered but it works. You can find a nice mid range 1/2hp drill press for around $120, I just wanted something cheap as im not going to use it often, but hell, for 39$ I can afford to abuse it (although I try not to spend a lot).

[hatemi]

Yup. Cheapest drill presses I have found I finland are around 50?, but I wouldn't use them when drilling large holes to copper(I have burned one 1000w hand drill making my waterblock with 13mm drillbit). For evaps they should work well tough since the largest drillbit you ueasually need for evaps is around 6mm anyways.

I made my evaps with hand drill(and alot of broken bits) and conecting the holes with dremel clone with HSS bit. The bit looks like the siccest and scariest that dentist would use to drill your teeth :D

You can see the bit in this pic under all other stuff:)

[gkiing]

Yup. Cheapest drill presses I have found I finland are around 50?, but I wouldn't use them when drilling large holes to copper(I have burned one 1000w hand drill making my waterblock with 13mm drillbit). For evaps they should work well tough since the largest drillbit you ueasually need for evaps is around 6mm anyways.

I made my evaps with hand drill(and alot of broken bits) and conecting the holes with dremel clone with HSS bit. The bit looks like the siccest and scariest that dentist would use to drill your teeth :D

You can see the bit in this pic under all other stuff:)

what kind of store did you get your hose from? im trying to find somewhere with steel hoses because it turned out the home depot near me has none. Is it from a welding or hydraulic parts store?

[HawainPanda]

lol, hatemi, i got some .016" diameter bits today, by mistake, i cracked up so hard, they're thinner than a pencil lead!!!
I was supposed to get 1/8" but they're letting me keep it so oh well, :D, dunno what to use it for, no idea why they even make those

nyways kryp, just find a midranged power presss drill, prob don't wanna get the cheapest..mite take u forever to mill

[kryptobs2000]

well I don't really wanna get one at all lol. I owe my mom 500$, my friend 130$, and I have like... 70$ in my possession, a check for 150-200$ and my friends dad owes me 300$. And I need a new videocard.

[hatemi]

what kind of store did you get your hose from? im trying to find somewhere with steel hoses because it turned out the home depot near me has none. Is it from a welding or hydraulic parts store?

I got them from Dunlop Hiflex, a shop that sells and makes all kinds of hydraulic and pneaumatic hoses. You might want to look in for some similar shop in the states. Im sure they have those or atleast know where to order. I had some real problems finding them in Finland too, but I just started to read through that some PDF catalogues of hydraulics shops and found it kinda by accident:) Lucky me.

[kayl]

first time round it was $15 block, i later got that machined into a lid and a base with all surfaces machined flat for $10
i ordered 7 blocks and got about 5 machined to memory.

my drill press was $65 (cheapest drill press had enough power to drill copper) drill bits $4.
can get a dremal bit $23 and use it in a hand drill.
i have done 4mm channels and now trying 6mm, the bigger the hole the easier its to drill less time, just make sure ya line them up and its makes the dremal bit easier.

[kryptobs2000]

still hanv't gotten any tools from my dad :(. He has most of em right at his house he's just not very... responsable or... accountable on or w/e. But not a big deal as I don't have an evap block yet anyways (which was his excuse for not getting them to me the other day too:/) but I just orderd a 6800, well on friday. I've heard mixed results with this using a phase changer. And I havn't heard of any oc's with one. What d'you guys think about this?