New custom TEC setup done...

[freecableguy]

Replaced the TEC in my Swiftech unit. Went with a 320W model. Reduced temps by 14C. I am currently running a retail 3.2C at 4Ghz (250x16)....I know there is more and will keep going. I am thinking 265x16 or better with this chip. It is a Malay, 30 cap, SL6WG and only needs 1.625V for 4Ghz. Full load temp is 6C!!! With my old setup it was about 20C. :D

Now that I have received my new chip though I may be looking to move the 3.2C...what's the average OC? Is 4Ghz+ good for a Northwood 3.2 or is that just about avarage? I haven't had time to play more but I am betting it is going to do 4.2Ghz or better with TEC only.

[saaya]

told ya the temps would go down a lot ;) :D

would have expected even low temps though tbh... hmmm is the block warm? is the water warm? pic of the insulation?

many people hit 4ghz on good air with 3.2c's i think, but they needed more than 1.625v!!! :lol:

what happens if you rise vcore? do the temps get a lot higher?

[CrimeDog]

any idea of the current draw?

[moosturdsoed25]

what does it mean to be an ES chip?

[CrimeDog]

engineering sample

[saaya]

320W with 15.2v i guess, so its 21A...

and atx psu should have 30A on the 12v rail to power this tec fine. dedicated psus are rated more reasonable and i think even a 20A max psu can handle this tec just fine.

[Prandtl]

320W with 15.2v i guess, so its 21A...


320W is the cooling "power", so to say, of the TEC, not it's power consumption. Taking the same COP for the 320W at 15.2V as the 226W (roughly 0.62), you get a power consumption of 515W, or a current draw of 34A.
A 226W TEC consume 24A @ 15.2V, as per the data provided by swiftech (http://www.swiftnets.com/) (in Thermoelectric section)

[Nimrod0031]

Where did you get your 320w tec? My swifty block should be here tomorrow. I just got the mcw50-t in the mail yesterday and got it all ready to go.

[afireinside]

Pics of the new setup? :D

[tricknasty]

pics~~~!

[CrimeDog]

Where did you get your 320w tec? My swifty block should be here tomorrow. I just got the mcw50-t in the mail yesterday and got it all ready to go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3673&item=6712909392&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
I have seen them for sale overseas, but none in the US :( Expensive buggers.

[saaya]

320W is the cooling "power", so to say, of the TEC, not it's power consumption. Taking the same COP for the 320W at 15.2V as the 226W (roughly 0.62), you get a power consumption of 515W, or a current draw of 34A.
A 226W TEC consume 24A @ 15.2V, as per the data provided by swiftech (http://www.swiftnets.com/) (in Thermoelectric section)

no, the 320W is actually the power the tec consumes. all tecs are rated after the power they consume.

the cooling power, the heat they can pump, is usually 50-75% of the energy they consume. ~50W for an 80W tec etc... 227W tec is around 140W i think, depends on the type of tec though, some are more efficient than others.

a 226W tec doesnt consume 360W of eletricity! there are different 226W tecs, some are 15a 15v and some are 10A 24V.

[Prandtl]

no, the 320W is actually the power the tec consumes. all tecs are rated after the power they consume.

Hmm, first time I ever heard that. All TEC I have seen so far are rated with their Qmax (max heat pumped). Swiftech (http://www.swiftnets.com/) for example rate their TEC by Qmax, same for DD (http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Pelts/peltiers.asp). Aslo worth notice, the Qmax given by that guy on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3844873363&rd=1) are for relatively high cold side temp, so always use the lower Qmax he gives to have a beter estimate of what you'll get on a comp setup. And as you can notice, the 320W advertise IS the Qmax, albeit at high temp.

[saaya]

Hmm, first time I ever heard that. All TEC I have seen so far are rated with their Qmax (max heat pumped). Swiftech (http://www.swiftnets.com/) for example rate their TEC by Qmax, same for DD (http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Pelts/peltiers.asp). Aslo worth notice, the Qmax given by that guy on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3844873363&rd=1) are for relatively high cold side temp, so always use the lower Qmax he gives to have a beter estimate of what you'll get on a comp setup. And as you can notice, the 320W advertise IS the Qmax, albeit at high temp.

where? swifftech clearly states that their mcw50-t with an 80W tec can pump a maximum heatload of 53W:
80 Watts built-in thermoelectric module
Optimal cooling capacity: will dissipate 53 Watts continuous thermal load to ambient temperature

this is the theoretical qmax the tecs could move if they were 100% efficient afaik. no tec is 100% efficient, the best ones ive seen have an efficiency of 75%, some only have an efficiency of 30%....

a 227W tec will never remove 227W of heat! when you ask people who used 227W tecs you will find out that their temps exponently became worse and worse the closer they reached 140W of heat, wich is around the maximum heatload most 227W tecs can pump. same goes fro mcw50-ts with 80W tecs. as soon as the gpu produces close to 50W wich is the max they can remove the temps collapse and the delta comes close to 0 or even gets negative!

and a 227W tec does not consume 360W of electricity.

the ratings dd uses are very questionable anyways as they are selling a 150W tec as a 170W tec.

[Prandtl]

you are confusing optimal and maximum, optimal only mean the best point to run them at, or if you prefer, the TEC's sweet spot.

The 226W TEC dont draw 360W because you DONT run them at 15.2V, but 12V, hence the lower power consumption. Also, the higher the heatload pumped by the TEC, the lower the temperature difference between the hot and cold side. Also, keep in mind that the Qmax (and deltaT max) also changes with the input voltage. So at 12V, a 226W TEC wont be able to pump 226W, but more like 200W. Which is still more than the 140W you give, BUT that 200W is what the TEC would be able to pump IF the heat is spread across its surface! So you might be right 140W (from a tiny cpu) is probably close to what the TEC can cool, but I wouldn't go as far as giving that number as the maximum cooling capability, depends too much on your TEC assembly configuration (read geometry). Worth notice, the relatively large gpu are probably more TEC friendly considering their surface in respect to the TEC used to cool them.

And yes, a 226W TEC WILL consume 360W of electricity at 15.2V and 24A.


*Edit*
Forgot to add, here is the white paper (http://www.tetech.com/publications/pubs/IECEC1980RJB.pdf) I use to evaluate the new Qmax of a TEC not used at its maximum power rating.

[saaya]

you are confusing optimal and maximum, optimal only mean the best point to run them at, or if you prefer, the TEC's sweet spot. the sweet spot depends on how well you cool the hot side of the tec. if the cooling is well enough the sweet spot is always with vmax. above vmax the tec will produce that much heat itself that it looses cooling power.


The 226W TEC dont draw 360W because you DONT run them at 15.2V, but 12V, hence the lower power consumption.
sorry, but what you are saying doesnt make sence with the results i and everybody else i have heard about are making with tecs. a 227W tec will NEVER pump 227W, just like an 80W tec will NEVER pump 80W of heat, no matter how much volts you run it at.

and yes i have run a 227W tec at 15V and no, it does not pull 360W of electricity!


Also, the higher the heatload pumped by the TEC, the lower the temperature difference between the hot and cold side. Also, keep in mind that the Qmax (and deltaT max) also changes with the input voltage.
i know about qmax and the delta...


So at 12V, a 226W TEC wont be able to pump 226W, but more like 200W.
no, a 227W tec will never pump 227W of heat, no matter how many volts you pump through it.


Which is still more than the 140W you give, BUT that 200W is what the TEC would be able to pump IF the heat is spread across its surface! thats why everybody uses copper cold plates wich DO spread the heat among the tecs surface.


So you might be right 140W (from a tiny cpu) is probably close to what the TEC can cool, but I wouldn't go as far as giving that number as the maximum cooling capability, depends too much on your TEC assembly configuration (read geometry). it depends on the tec, but tecs have an efficiency of 50-75% of the power they consume, and a 227W tec consumes... 227W of electricity... it will never move 227W, never!

you seem to have misunderstood how much electricity tecs consume, a 227W tec doesnt consume 360W of electricity! maybe it does with a really unefficient psu you are powering it with, but the tec itself only consumes 227W of electricity.


Worth notice, the relatively large gpu are probably more TEC friendly considering their surface in respect to the TEC used to cool them. yes, their heat density is half as large or even less compared to the current high end cpus, but that doesnt really matter as everybody uses cold plates to spread the heat. the bigger gpu size might eventually mean the temps are maybe ~3°C lower compared to a gpu that emits as much heat but is half the size.


And yes, a 226W TEC WILL consume 360W of electricity at 15.2V and 24A. who says that? where did you get that info from? i have run a 227W tec at 15v with my enermax 353W psu and NO it does NOT consume 360W of electricity!

http://www.swiftnets.com/store/product_details.asp?ProdID=100

here, look at this, this is the dedicated psu swiftech sells to power 227W tecs. its rated to deliver a maximum of 320W!

so are you saying swiftech is selling and under rated psu that is offically not strong enough to power their tecs?

and no, swiftech does not tell their customers to only run their 227W tecs at 12v, the dedicated psu is supposed to be set to 15v when running with a 227W tec! so where do your 360W come from?

and mayn people are running their 80W tecs off their main system psus. so if what you say is correct they are putting an extra load of 160W on their 12v rail, as they are running the 80W tecs at vmax=12v.

the 12v rail is the rail all systems use heavily, most 350W psus can deliver a maximum of 200W on the 12 rail, most 400W psus can deliver 220W on their 12v rail. so you are saying those people are running their 80W tecs wich sucks 160W from the 12v rail and leaves only 40W or 60W of the 12v rail for the system?

all hdds and optical drives and fans run off the 12 rail, videocards use it, the mainboard uses it to derive a part of its voltages most important the vcore for the cpu from it...

im not an tec expert, all i know is what i found out myself or learned from expirienced tec users and a forum dedicated to tecs, but what you are saying overthrows most of what ive learned and used with success many many times so please understand if i may sound a bit upset.

please tell me where you got those infos from.

[Prandtl]

if the cooling is well enough the sweet spot is always with vmax.
I'd like to see a single tec assembly that can get to that point.

sorry, but what you are saying doesnt make sence with the results i and everybody else i have heard about are making with tecs. a 227W tec will NEVER pump 227W, just like an 80W tec will NEVER pump 80W of heat, no matter how much volts you run it at.
and yes i have run a 227W tec at 15V and no, it does not pull 360W of electricity!

Really? Have you ever run a TEC @15V and deltaT=0? I'd like to see that!
And how many amps did it draw at 15V?

no, a 227W tec will never pump 227W of heat, no matter how many volts you pump through it.

If the manufacturer rate them at 227W of cooling power, it is because they can, just because you never used them in such a way that you will see them do it, doesn't mean they cant.

thats why everybody uses copper cold plates wich DO spread the heat among the tecs surface.

cold plate only spread the heat that much and add thermal resistance to the assembly, cold plate are far from perfect.

it depends on the tec, but tecs have an efficiency of 50-75% of the power they consume, and a 227W tec consumes... 227W of electricity... it will never move 227W, never!

50-75% efficiency? Just how have you calculate that number? With maximum heat pump? Actual heat pump? What voltage? Hot side temp?

here, look at this, this is the dedicated psu swiftech sells to power 227W tecs. its rated to deliver a maximum of 320W!
so are you saying swiftech is selling and under rated psu that is offically not strong enough to power their tecs?

As I previously said, at 12V, a 226W tec wont draw 360W, but more like 220W, as measured by Swiftech!!!

and no, swiftech does not tell their customers to only run their 227W tecs at 12v, the dedicated psu is supposed to be set to 15v when running with a 227W tec! so where do your 360W come from?

got a link? Because I just read the installation guide for both their 5002 tec cooler and meanwell psu and cant see ANY mention of running the TEC at 15V.

and mayn people are running their 80W tecs off their main system psus. so if what you say is correct they are putting an extra load of 160W on their 12v rail, as they are running the 80W tecs at vmax=12v.

I have NEVER said a 80W TEC consume 160W at 12V, NEVER. I have never looked into 80W TEC, but a quick look at Swiftech website tells me it uses 72W at 12V (6A) and about 120W at 15V.

please tell me where you got those infos from.
Mostly Procooling, TE's website, and a little bit from ocforums

[Vandread]

i'm looking @ two discussions about the same?
come on guys keep the discussion in one thread ;)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=504947#post504947

btw if saaya is right... 99% of the tec guides are wrong :D

[saaya]

i'm looking @ two discussions about the same?
come on guys keep the discussion in one thread ;)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=504947#post504947

btw if saaya is right... 99% of the tec guides are wrong :D

can you link me to those guides please?

[saaya]

ok, i have a swifftech mc 371-3 with an 78W or 80W tec. unfortunately the manual doesnt tell me the specs of the tec.

i will eail swiftech and ask them what tec this is, then i will pick up a watt meter and meassure the power draw from the psu i will use to power this 80W tec, ok?

i will meassure it at vmax and at lower volts (my modded fortron can go to 15v and my enermax 353 can undervolt to 10V LOL :D)

so you claim the 80W tec will pump 80W of heat at full vmax? and it will consume 160W of electricity?

maybe an 80W tec can pump 80W of heat at full vmax, but thats theory.

based on my and other peoples expiriences tecs are between 50 and 75% efficient.

i played with 35W 55W 80W 120W 153W 169W 178W and 227W tecs and i always found the efficieny to be between 50 and 75% depending on the type of tec used.

[saaya]

ok, i sent gabe a mail and will hopefully get a reply soon :)

will let you know :)

[Prandtl]

so you claim the 80W tec will pump 80W of heat at full vmax? and it will consume 160W of electricity?


I have NEVER said a 80W TEC consume 160W at 12V, NEVER. I have never looked into 80W TEC, but a quick look at Swiftech website tells me it uses 72W at 12V (6A) and about 120W at 15V.


at least try to read part of my post before you reply and make claim for me.

[saaya]

ok so you mean an 80W will consume 120W at full vmax, correct?
because you said a 227W tec will consume 360W at full vmax.

well other than just telling me i misunderstood you, could you please answer my questions then and tell me what you think how much watts the 80W tec will cosnume at full vmax? :P

[Prandtl]

well other than just telling me i misunderstood you, could you please answer my questions then and tell me what you think how much watts the 80W tec will cosnume at full vmax? :P
My head is going to explode!!!!!!
I have never looked into 80W TEC, but a quick look at Swiftech website tells me it uses 72W at 12V (6A) and about 120W at 15V.
80/120=0.666
226/360=0.633

Still dont get where you take I said a 80W TEC would consume 160W....

[saaya]

My head is going to explode!!!!!!

ohhhh kayyyy... so then better dont answer that question lol :D


80/120=0.666
226/360=0.633

Still dont get where you take I said a 80W TEC would consume 160W....
i think it started as a typo and ended up confusing both of us ^^

[Aphex_Tom_9]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3673&item=6712909392&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
I have seen them for sale overseas, but none in the US :( Expensive buggers.
ah but look here-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3847045768&rd=1

[enzoR]

226W Potted Peltier @ dangerden.com

Maximum operating temp: 125 C

Imax = 24 Amps

Qmax = 226.1 Watts

Vmax = 15.2 Volts


The power it consumes = 24*15.2 = 364.8W


80W ICE-71 Potted!!

Imax = 8.0 Amps

Qmax = 80.0 Watts

Vmax = 16.1 Volts

Power consumed = 8.0*16.1= 128.8W