View Full Version : Best gas to mod Mach unit?
rick_fx
10-03-2004, 02:41 PM
What's the best gas to mod a Mach unit with?
Thanks
blinky
10-03-2004, 02:42 PM
r507
rick_fx
10-03-2004, 02:56 PM
Will a Mach 1 charged with r507 perform the same as a Mach 2 charged with r507?
I belive the mach2 will have a slightly lower temperature and more capcity due to the bigger compressor. r404a is also a nice option.
chilly1
10-03-2004, 06:06 PM
R402A will give you about 3 degrees colder than R507 and a little more capacity but it is trickier to install. R404 is a few degrees warmer than R507, On all my future mods I will be switching to R402A for those that request it..... Or want colder temperatures....
rick_fx
10-03-2004, 07:20 PM
Chilly1,
I did a bit of research (cause I'm a refrigerant noob) and found the following document:
http://www.schlosser-moller.no/filer/kuldemedierapp-12.pdf
Shows that r403b performs better than r402a.
Would it be possible to mod a unit with r403b?
HawainPanda
10-03-2004, 08:07 PM
yeah, u could use r403b..but see if u can get it first
zabomb4163
10-03-2004, 09:05 PM
Chilly1,
I did a bit of research (cause I'm a refrigerant noob) and found the following document:
http://www.schlosser-moller.no/filer/kuldemedierapp-12.pdf
Shows that r403b performs better than r402a.
Would it be possible to mod a unit with r403b?
r403b is a R22 R218 and R290 blend.
R22 has been banned so i imagine it would be a little difficult getting r403b
chilly1
10-03-2004, 09:18 PM
R403B has a little better capacity and will boil at a lower temperature it also has a slightly larger glide than R 402 (1+ degrees larger) But it may give us a little lower temp -3 degrees to about -59 instead of -56 and a low boil point. Unfortunately It is not available as a stock item at any of the suppliers n town I am looking into it and it's components. I may be better off to get a few more refrigerants and experiment with blends to make one more suited to the narrow range of temperatures we use for phasechange. If I can get this gas I will also offer this as an option.
My garage is filling up with cylinders. I have 12 types of refrigerant that are not flammable and 5 that are.
HawainPanda
10-03-2004, 10:48 PM
chilly1...do they have information availible to tell you how much to blend of each?
chilly1
10-04-2004, 03:24 AM
Look at the precentages, and if you know the properties then you can start adding to see what you get. http://www.blairwing.com/images/Refrig_Data_Sum.pdf
The percentages are listed in the same column as the molecular composition.
doc_colton
10-04-2004, 04:23 AM
R402A will give you about 3 degrees colder than R507 and a little more capacity but it is trickier to install. R404 is a few degrees warmer than R507, On all my future mods I will be switching to R402A for those that request it..... Or want colder temperatures....
Can you use R402a in a Mach II without any other modification? When you say "trickier", what do you mean........
masterofpuppets
10-04-2004, 07:54 AM
He most likely means mods to the compressor, compressor change, and/or captube mods. Or any other modifications to the unit.
chilly1
10-04-2004, 08:46 AM
The charge and mods to teh capillary are a little trickier due to the two phase nature of this refrigerant.
rick_fx
10-04-2004, 09:01 PM
r403b is a R22 R218 and R290 blend.
I know, I read it in the document :D
froudeg
11-15-2004, 07:34 AM
Only problem with 402A and 403B is it requires an oil change (its mineral oil instead of POE).
Btw, 403B is also called Isceon 69L - which is freely available in the UK from www.rabtherm.co.uk
actualy they dont. you can use it with any oil but it is preffered to do a partial change with alkalbenzaline oil (however you spell it)
froudeg
11-15-2004, 07:40 AM
Ahh right - i just went off a chart i got here that says MO/AB oil to be used for 402A and 403B
pythagoras
11-15-2004, 08:11 AM
Hi Froudeg,
Its a 50/50 blend of the two oils. As the machs have poe I believe you would need an oil change.
Regards
John.
blinky
11-15-2004, 08:28 AM
hmm u guys think it would be possible to use r410a in a single stage unit?
i mean if u put a HX between the suction line and the liquid discharge from the condenser i think we could condense it
sound feasible???
if we could use r13b1 that would be super sweet :D
chilly1
11-15-2004, 09:07 AM
Hi Froudeg,
Its a 50/50 blend of the two oils. As the machs have poe I believe you would need an oil change.
Regards
John.
Actually R402A works well with any oil, adding Alkylbenzene to the mineral oil improves lubricity and facilitates oil return.
Polyolester oil currently in the mach I's and II's is fine with any refrigerant although it does have issues below -70C.
pythagoras
11-15-2004, 11:35 AM
^^^^^^What he said :worship: Missed the poe compatibility section of my spec sheet :(
Regards
John.
r403b is a R22 R218 and R290 blend.
R22 has been banned so i imagine it would be a little difficult getting r403b
It's not banned, it's being phased out. This means that you can still get it, but they are going to produce less and less of it as years go on so it's eventually out of production and the only reason they still make it is to service existing systems with it.