Would you pay $4hr for something of the sort?

[WesM63]

Picture this a "Internet Gaming Cafe"

Stacked with 48 Top of the Line PC's
Full T1
All the latest and greatest games, updated every month. (7-10 games)
A small cafetria, packed with bawls soda.
4 Xbox's, 4 PS2's, 2 Gamecubes each on their own bigscreen TV. (Linkable)

Would you be willing to pay $4hr / $15day/ $350 Unlimited Yearly Membership for that kind of access??

I want to say that this is not my ideal however I am doing an Interest check for someone. I know I would, say your on vacation, bored... you run into this.... would you be up for it?

This place is having a massive lan party, you wouldn't need to bring a pc or any game to play, just yourself.

I am however a part of this, I have designed the network and will be setting it up. I have also had alot of say as to what goes into this place, however I will not be a co-owner or any of the sort. Purely answer the pole and post why or some small improvements you have think of.

I have detailed specs on systems ect if you'd like to know.

[shafty]

I would go to it!

Build One in Vegas :)

[ocmyface]

wes, what oyu need to do is find a place with no or a crappy lan center

by me people pay $15/hour to play on the crappiest systems ever:
around a 9200pro
2ghz p4
generic mouse WITH NO MOUSEPAD
generic keyboard
nice monitor
and metal chair
all running off with i swear is a standard 1megabit cable connection

and the only games you can play is CS, EQ or random strategy games

the place sucks but the demand for lan centers is high so people pay a ton to play
he also refuses to let you adjust any settings :stick:

[Dissolved]

Yes thats Exactly what i want to do when i inherit money from my great grandmother.

[WesM63]

hehe... This is in process of begin orginzed. The place looks about to be 3,000sq ft and contain 48 of these:


A64 3000+
MSI Neo2 Plat
1gb Kingston Pc-3200
120GB SATA WD
BFG 6800 GT 256mb
DVD/Case ect

17" Samsung LCD (16ms)

[WesM63]

wes, what oyu need to do is find a place with no or a crappy lan center

by me people pay $15/hour to play on the crappiest systems ever:
around a 9200pro
2ghz p4
generic mouse WITH NO MOUSEPAD
generic keyboard
nice monitor
and metal chair
all running off with i swear is a standard 1megabit cable connection

and the only games you can play is CS, EQ or random strategy games

the place sucks but the demand for lan centers is high so people pay a ton to play
he also refuses to let you adjust any settings :stick:


Yea see thats the thing around here, we (the company I work for) host lan parties and everytime we get around 20-30ppl, but everyone complains that they don't have the PC to play the newest games or some games themselves. Then they go on to say that there friends, 10+ would've came but they didn't have the games or pc either. :rolleyes:

Oh forgot this:
http://www.dataeclipse.com/wes/aaronnmike.jpg

[mr-white]

sounds a good idea and cheap too but is it going to be financially viable considering your gonna have to upgrade the hardware every few months, add new games plus pay for the upkeep of the center ?

MW

[WesM63]

Hardware won't get upgraded every month, just the games. Hardware every 2yrs.

I don't have anything to do with the money on it. I was just asked to design the network and see if people where interested in it.

[Dissolved]

Looks good, i dont think you'll need a top of the line Computers for a lan center.. i mean you think 14yo's will care if your getting 140fps or 60fps?

16ms lcds in theory Ghost past 62.5FPS i Believe.. i dont notice anything bad on my 17" 16ms VSonic. (CRTS are alot cheaper too, wont have to worry about some punk poping the pixles on your lcds too)

But anyways.. yea.. this has been my dream for about 2-3years..

[BobyTT]

WesM63 you can count on this , that if club like this exist , its gonna be full all the time , :) at least ..... Here in Miami , i dont know a normal club , all of them ar like ocmyface said.... very very slow... when i go there with some friend , i feel like i am riding skateboard without one wheel.... I wish good luck to your friend!

[craig588]

Absoloutly, I am a member of a rifle club and all that they give you is use of 200 yard ranges for 700$ a year. You need to bring your own rifles, scopes, ammo, targets, and protective ear/eye gear. I would have no problem paying 350$ a year for a dedicated gaming center that was always fully stocked with games and gamers to compete against.

[WesM63]

Dissolved,
The reason they decided on LCD's is because they take up less space, use less power and don't produce as much heat. They really need to find some with this lcd to make sure it has NO GHOSTING.

I sure hope it goes thru as this will be alot of fun for all ages.

[xtremetheme]

Yeah sounds good. :)
But make sure people cant steal hardware or :banana::banana::banana::banana: up the windows. =/

[WesM63]

They have the windows thing figured out, hmm about stealing hardware... someone would leave with a broken hand. ;)

[3rd-Dimension]

when i made a 2k3 dns and dhcp server it kept having problems with assignement of ip's to some computers and other odd problems. If your going to just have the same pc's hooked to the network just use static ip's. Easier to track a computer and to possibly keep people from hooking up outside machines that dont know to assign an ip and what range u use. Otherwise i'd suggest stick with linux or if u really want windows 2k . I just turned off dhcp on the segment of network i admin and its worked beautifully.

[Seras]

the price set at $4/h is a lil high maybe. all the lan centers here are $3/h.

[WesM63]

Seras,
Thanks for the input. As they've been checking we are on par with most Lan centers prices, 3-4hr. However, most lan centers memberships are $30 up front and just discount the hourly rate by $.50. These guys are giving you UNLIMITED ACCESS for $350yr, to spend your $350, it equals 6hrs a month. One lan party, a hellva deal when you think about it.

[saaya]

i wouldnt, but there are many people out there that would.

dont forget that you need food n drinks ;) successfull internet and gaming cafes all have good food n snacks for good prices. if you worry about the keyboards getting dirty just put 2 sofas or couches in some corner and tell them thats where they should eat :)

thats how the 2 big internet/gaming cafes i know in my city work

[WesM63]

sayaa,
Thanks for the input, i was talking to the guys today about the food thing and they said it really depends on the location of it. A few places they are looking it is very close to multiple food places, other arn't. Guess it really depends.

[texuspete00]

Seras,
Thanks for the input. As they've been checking we are on par with most Lan centers prices, 3-4hr. However, most lan centers memberships are $30 up front and just discount the hourly rate by $.50. These guys are giving you UNLIMITED ACCESS for $350yr, to spend your $350, it equals 6hrs a month. One lan party, a hellva deal when you think about it.

To be honest it's actually TOO good of a deal. $350 is nothing. With only 48 spots and the amount of teeny boopers that will LIVE there at that price, it means long lines for new customers. Have to price it higher or you will be wondering if some people should be chipping in for the rent as well. Do a smaller plan(like 6 months, 1 month) since a fair asking price for a years worth of high end gaming is actually quite high.

[Iridium192_217]

$4 an hour is a very good deal in my book.....

I think its a good idea.

[pik-ard v1.1]

16ms lcds in theory Ghost past 62.5FPS i Believe..

so... set refresh rate to 60hz... then turn vsync on? in theory, wouldnt that prevent ghosting at all? :confused:

[9mmCensor]

Headphones and a liquor license would be nessesary and helpful. If you have the customer base, go for it. The local gamerz lan here closed because nobody went.

[Kunaak]

here in juneau alaska, theres a small lan place.
thier PC's are some of crappiest PC's I ever seen.
thier monitors are all locked at 60 hz.
using 15 inch monitors.
ball mice.
loud clanky keyboards that you have jab your finger on a key to actually get it to do something...
overhead florescent lighting.
a small cramped area...
charges a dollar per ten minutes.

they only have about 15 PC's in there.
but I've never seen less then 4 kids in there anytime.
it's right by the postoffice so I see that place alot.

in short...
I think even the worst places, can make money, assuming the interest is there.
here in alaska, a LAN place seems to be a good idea.
basically cause theres nothing else to do, and theres no other place like it.

do I go, hell no.
I got my own PC, ten times better then anything I seen there. would I go if I had no PC?
nope.

would I go if they had good PC;'s like yours, and at a decent price, sure why not.

[WesM63]

The more these guys get looking the more they want to do it. Every place they've looked at has had crappy computers compared to these.

Actually I need to make a correction, they have found 2 possible locations. one is a two part place with someone renting half which would pay for 3/4 of the morgate on it But only leaves them with 2500sq ft to play with.

The other place is 9,500sq ft!! They thought it was alot smaller but after reading its actually huge. The only bad thing about this place is its location. Its right next to all the resturants in town. :(

[sandman]

Wes, where at are you guys looking?

I know of some places in Napoleon that you could rent.

[WesM63]

Eric,
Bryan my man. ;) They don't want to go outside of bryan. :shrughs:

[shrae]

so... set refresh rate to 60hz... then turn vsync on? in theory, wouldnt that prevent ghosting at all? :confused:

No, because the stated response time is only a "typical" or "average" response time. Some subpixels may take longer to respond than others, or it may take longer for a set of subpixels to change than a single one (depending on the logic).

[sandman]

Eric,
Bryan my man. ;) They don't want to go outside of bryan. :shrughs:

Ahh..Alright.

A month or so ago, they had a what used to be a Wal-Mart for sale. Pretty damn huge, but I figure you could use half, and sell the rest or something.

Along, with a ton of shops in the same strip that are smaller.Maybe 30x40'

Anyway, if you get it set up, let me know. I might have to check it out.

[WesM63]

Eric,
For sure man :)

[BobyTT]

WesM63 :) hi man , i just wanna ask you , whats happend with your idea? Is it works... A friend of mine is thinking to dtart something like this here in Miami :)

[WesM63]

BobyTT,
They are still working up the business plan which takes time. They are hoping to have everything ready by december.

[WiCKeD]

I'm with Kunaak/saaya. Not something I would pay for, but I know there are people that would.

All LCDs tear - they won't look as good as CRTs for at least 5 years. On the other hand, the look of the place would seem a lot slicker. Downside I see is that a good 17" CRT costs ~$150 (or 19" for $200) and a good 17" LCD would be about $400. With 48 PCs, that's about a $12,000 difference, which the electrical bill is not going to make up for! You'd probably gain a few more customers than you would lose with them, though. What about an even split? Let the customer choose? Could even charge a premium for one over the other.

Oh and how about 4 X-Boxes linked? :) That's something you won't get anywhere else.

[Der_KHAN]

Downside I see is that a good 17" CRT costs ~$150 (or 19" for $200) and a good 17" LCD would be about $400.

good crts for 150/200$ ??? what brand would that be?


@ wes

how often do you plan hardware updates. and how much would that cost per rig?

[WiCKeD]

good crts for 150/200$ ??? what brand would that be?

Go check out Best Buy. We're not talking stellar, graphics professionals, AutoCAD workstations. I'm looking at name brands like Magnivox, Sony, etc. Note the "~" it's an ESTIMATE. Sheesh. :rolleyes: It's a big capital difference, depending on how much Wes's compadres intend to invest.

Also, he already said they planned hardware updates every 2 years. Read.

[WesM63]

Der_Khan,
Hardware upgrades would be every 2ys. (I think).

Actually they moved down to 32pc's instead of 48. By the time they get ready to actuallly purchase the systems they might end up going with S939 3200+'s.

Another reason for LCD's is space. They are trying to cut down on using lots of space to save room for the xbox's and PS2's. They did away with the GameCube ideal. They went to 8xbox's 4PS2's. Each one connected to its own 50" TV and a 2-3person sofa in front with coffee table.

I'll post a layoutt up once they get it designed.

[Siphilon]

The korean mafia (plz this is simply meant in jest; no offense plz; hell im korean myself.....[actually thats a lie, im not, but it sounded better didnt it?]) own a couple internet / gaming cafe's around here in northern virginia and I must say they are really nice. They just use standard CRTs, not sure what the SQ/FT'age is but I'd say it's about the size of two 7/11's it never gets very warm in there and theyve got the computers set up with power management to conserve power.


they keep the place stocked with lots of different asian junk food and soupls...all of which me and my whitey friends sample on occasion...sometimes they're nasty...sometimes not...anyway..they don't server alcohol but that could be a definite plus if you could get the liquor license.


anyway, good luck w/ your friends.

[=[PULSAR]=]

Theres one by me that alot of people play at 5hr for p4 3.2 and 9800xt with tons of great games.

[MaxxxRacer]

for the monitors get the 172X from samsung. Its the best gaming monitor out there as of now and tens upon tens of (maybe a hundred if u really want to search) proclaim it to be the best monitor (LCD) they have come across. Some even dumping their uber high quality crts to use it.

The idea is great, but for me its not. I like my system and none other. And im insanely cheap except when it comes to upgrading my pc and i always have the newest games right when they come out.

Do you have a bigger pic of the network. The details are too small to see, and i was curios as to what cisco hardware ur using. Cisco power baby. expensive but worth it.

[WesM63]

I don't really want to disclose the cisco hardware, just for security reasons.

[Stang_Man]

Wes, get this..

for the LCD, get Samsung 17" 710N's... they have a 12ms response time and cost ~400 each.

[WesM63]

Wes, get this..

for the LCD, get Samsung 17" 710N's... they have a 12ms response time and cost ~400 each.


Thanks stang man, I'll be sure to let them know.

[Mini]

Sure... 4$/hr isnt that much...

In boomtown copenhagen wich is a cybercafe with 3.0Ghz P4 and R9800pro you pay like 5$/hour and then you can subscribe as a member and its like 3-4$/hour... And then you get discount on candy/snacks and games...

But a T1 line for like 48 users?? :D Thats 0.03125 Mbit/person... lol :D Thats like a 33k modem :P

You need like a T3 line... Or more like a 10Mbit connection out of the house :D

But i would say that LCD screen are a very bad idea... They ghost... They cost$$$$ and ppl smudge them and press on the screen cuz it looks like a pond... So they will just f*ck them up...

But hey... I would go for the idea... If i were you i would put prices higher than 4$... Unless there is alot of competition... 4$/hr for state of the art PC's???

Damn.. hehe... I would go for like 5-6$...

Edit: Did you calculate how many hours it would take to pay for 1 computer??? JUST the hardware???

Edit2: I would say that 8 Xbox's??? Are you insane???

Cant you get like 2-3??? You know there are 4 controllers for each Xbox right??? And i never seen ALOT of ppl standing in line to play on 1 :D

I wouldnt go for 8... Thats just overkill... 8x4 thats like 32 players :D

[WesM63]

Sure... 4$/hr isnt that much...

In boomtown copenhagen wich is a cybercafe with 3.0Ghz P4 and R9800pro you pay like 5$/hour and then you can subscribe as a member and its like 3-4$/hour... And then you get discount on candy/snacks and games...

But a T1 line for like 48 users?? :D Thats 0.03125 Mbit/person... lol :D Thats like a 33k modem :P

You need like a T3 line... Or more like a 10Mbit connection out of the house :D

But i would say that LCD screen are a very bad idea... They ghost... They cost$$$$ and ppl smudge them and press on the screen cuz it looks like a pond... So they will just f*ck them up...

But hey... I would go for the idea... If i were you i would put prices higher than 4$... Unless there is alot of competition... 4$/hr for state of the art PC's???

Damn.. hehe... I would go for like 5-6$...

Edit: Did you calculate how many hours it would take to pay for 1 computer??? JUST the hardware???

Edit2: I would say that 8 Xbox's??? Are you insane???

Cant you get like 2-3??? You know there are 4 controllers for each Xbox right??? And i never seen ALOT of ppl standing in line to play on 1 :D

I wouldnt go for 8... Thats just overkill... 8x4 thats like 32 players :D


Most of everything has been well though out. It boils down to size limitaions with the LCD's. And yes they know how many users per day and for how many hours per day they need to have in order to pay for everything.

8xbox's was overkill they might not go with that many 4-6 is what they are thinking, the ideal is to never have anyone waiting to do something.

As for the connection, it was chosen because no one will be leaving our network to play games, unless we decide to do mmorpgs. The servers are placed where they are so people on the outside world can connect to them with the right password.

We all know that 1 T1 does not boil down to 33kbps per computer, yes it seems logical, but I work for a company that provides internet to 1300 residential cable modem customers and 30-40 small businesses on 6 load balanced T1's. Calculate that out ;) If that was correct, no one would pay for our service. However, I know tons of people that game on it 24/7 without a hiccup and I myself have hosted various 24+ player servers over it.

Plus do you know how much a T3/DS3/E3 costs? Monthly you are looking at over $8k plus the inital install cost for the phone company to run fiber to your location. Thats not including the Router needed to handle one and the cost of the cable to go from the Demark to your router. (I know, my workplace is in process of upgrading to a T3.) The cost alone is just not worth it for this type of place, If need be they can upgrade to 2 T1's easily.

[aoc007]

Id say a good idea is to start out with less than you were planning, maybe try 16 pcs 2 xboxes, see what people are interested in and if theyre not that interested in the xboxes but they like the pcs you can save the money from expensive tvs for more pcs, etc. Also Id say location is pretty important.

Basically I think itd be best to play it trial and error, find out what people are most interested in and cater to that.

[Noktar]

If I havn't got a "good" Pc with fast Internet like Chello in Austria I would go.

In Vienne we have a big Internet Cafe(not just one, but this is a example) with nice Pc's, but no consoles and games on the Pc's

There we have to pay 1€ per hr

So I would say 4$ (around 3€) would be fair.
I would spend a a few hours their for playing games and so on.

If the location is good and u can reach it from verywhere in the city with Öffis (public transporters, like train or something like this) I would come.

Depends on how cheap/expencive the food/drinks are !

[IanG]

I didnt read the whole thread... but where are you building it?

I don't know of any lan center in Minneapolis Minnesota :(

[WesM63]

IanG,
We are located in NW Ohio, so here in NW Ohio is where they plan on building it.

[WiCKeD]

Wes, get this..

for the LCD, get Samsung 17" 710N's... they have a 12ms response time and cost ~400 each.
If you go with Samsung - 710T is DVI. VGA increases ghosting in gaming and doesn't look as good. ;)

Response time is kind of a bogus figure. If an LCD can achieve a 1ms response time on just one color, say 255 (pure white), it qualifies for that rating. Just make sure it's <16ms response time and has DVI. Any gaming monitor uses either the Samsung panel or the Au Optronics one and they're both pretty good. Get whatever is cheapeast :cool:

Good luck with the wicked project. :toast:

[WesM63]

If you go with Samsung - 710T is DVI. VGA increases ghosting in gaming and doesn't look as good. ;)

Response time is kind of a bogus figure. If an LCD can achieve a 1ms response time on just one color, say 255 (pure white), it qualifies for that rating. Just make sure it's <16ms response time and has DVI. Any gaming monitor uses either the Samsung panel or the Au Optronics one and they're both pretty good. Get whatever is cheapeast :cool:

Good luck with the wicked project. :toast:


Thanks for the help with that one, I wondered if going DVI would help any. They will be using 6800GT's so the DVI will not be a problem, I will fill them in on this one.

[Svenn]

We've got one of these down the street from my house. It's $3/hour with no membership. I believe it is korean owned and there are large numbers of koreans that hang out there playing Counter-Strike. Personally, I don't like the idea of paying $3/hour to play games on someone elses computer when I can sit at home for free and play on my FX-53...

Btw, I too was thinking of starting one of these, but I'm not sure it would draw enough interest to be worth it.

[LANjack]

Hmm.. I don't think I would go to one myself... unless it had a 18+ room or something that served cold beers. haha. I dunno about the thought of sharing space with a couple dozen 12-16 year old leet dudes.