Choosing The Best Pump for Your WaterCooling System

[MaxxxRacer]

If you already have a good understanding of centrifugal pumps, but want to learn more, please read this PDF located HERE (http://www.idcon.com/pdf-doc/centrifugalpumps.pdf)



My Recomendations!
There are the pumps I reccomend. I am reccomending these pumps off of the calculations that cathar did. I will link you to those right here (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825).

DDC-2/MCP355 DDC-1/MCP350- Any incredibly popular pump all over the world for its small size and excellent performance, the DDC-2 provides performance exceeding the AQX50Z and MCP655, while having a smaller footprint and consuming the same power as the MCP655 (the AQX50Z consumes less than half). Please read more on this pump further down in the guide and in the links provided. (Note: the DDC-2 with and without modified tops is not included in the calculations that Cathar made due to the fact that they were released after the calculations were published, but Alex "Petra" has created detailed PQ curves of the various DDC models which are linked below in the DDC Section)

AQX50Z- My second recomendation is the mcp600 or aqua extreme50z. They are the same pump as I explain further down in my guide. This pump provides the most head pressure between the D4 and itself and will also give you the best temps. Should be noted that the DDC has higher max head but is 3/8 and will provide less flow. Surprisingly enough, when this pump is run at 13.8 volts it will beat pretty much any pump on the market. It is only beaten by running two of them in series. It is quite amazing only drawing 8 watts of power. this really is the ultimate water cooling pump. Low power, high head, and great temps. Its only downside is that it is not as long lasting as some of the others. I have no real data on how long it will run for, but suffice to say that the iwaki will outilve it by a while.

MCP655- My third recomendation is the D5/MCP655. It is a bit more powerful than the AQX50Z, but dumps appx 2 times the heat into the water. With this in mind, the MCP655 is an excelent choice for those with more powerful radiators. for users with a single 120mm fan radiator the 50Z would be the better option, but larger radiators will be able to handle the heat.

Iwaki MD20RLZ- My fourth reccomendation is the Iwaki MD20RZ. The MD20RLT will also work, providing temps roughly .1 c higher. This pump is incredibly powerful and is a balance between power and heat generation. Please take notice. If you are looking for a quiet/silent pump, the MD20 is NOT what you are looking for, but if you are in the market for an ac pump it is the only way to go.



Extreme Pumps:
There is really only one company that makes the more extreme end of pumps that water coolers generally use. Those are iwakis. I use one and can attest to their greatness. You cannot purchase them at comp mod places such as danger den, frozen cpu or crazypc, but you can get them from www.customaquatic.com . They seem to have the best prices on them.
There are 4 models that I have seen people use. That is the RD30, MD-15, the MD-20, and the MD-30. NOTE: get the RL or RLZ and NOT the RLX, as the RL and RLZ has much more head height than the LX. They are the ones that we want to use. There are also American and Japanese versions. The Japanese versions are supposed to be better, but cost 50 percent more money. The main difference between the American and Japanese ones is size and noise level. The Japanese based Iwakis are both smaller and quieter. If u got the cash to pay for the Japanese ones go ahead. For the 20 and 30 series there are the RLZ. These are versions with different impellers and have even higher pressure and head than the RLT's. I didnt put them in the main section becuase i forgot to (sorry). The RZT series would be a better choice for those running restrictive systems.

All of the Iwaki pumps including Z's - ORDER THEM HERE !!!!!! (http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=wp-aq-sm)

UPDATE:
After some research on the flow curves of the Iwakis i found that at 2.5gallons per minute of flow then the Z series and the L series of pumps will have the exact same pressure characteristics. If your loop will obtain a higher gpm than 2.5gpm then the L series will be beneficial, and if your flow will be below 2.5gpm then the Z series will be more benefical to your system. Surprisingly enough 2.5gpm is actually attainable with an iwaki md20rlt or rzt. Even with a dual heatercore rad, res, and cpu block you can acchieve around 2.8gpm with a tdx cpu block. around 2.3 gallons per minute if you are running with the number 4 insert. These numbers are based off of the iwaki md20. Running with the Storm block roughly 2.1 gpm is attainable with the same setup.


RD30:
This is the absolute pincale of performance. This pump is a 24volt DC pump that has incredible head pressure, amazing flow, and relatively low heat dump. I dont have exact numbers, but I will ask around and get some solid numbers on the pq curve. I know of two ppl using this pump, one of them being cathar, and the other Niksub1 (who got it for cathar if im not mistaken). Now I would have put this pump in my reccomendations at the top of the page, but the price of it would make anyone but the most xtreme of xtremes gasp in shock. The price on one of these monsters is 275 dollars. Now you also need to get a 24volt power supply. A variable power supply is reccomended as these pumps seem to give the best heat/power ratio when run at 18 volts according to Niksub1 and Cathar. The price on a 24volt power supply is in the range of 50-100 dollars for good one as far as i know. I will have a link up as to where to get them later on, as i cant seem to find it right now.

MD-15: - I removed the info on this pump as there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO BUY THIS PUMP.

MD-20/WMD-20
This pump based off of cathars calculations is the best AC based pump that money can buy. It will give you the lowest temperatures regardless of setup (given that you have a dual fan rad or more).
This is the bigger brother of the MD-15. This pump does 6.7gallons per minute and has 14 feet of head. This is where Iwaki goes into a class of its own. There are no other aquarium pumps that can touch these. (I'm sure there are some out there somewhere, but for the most part...) This pump can handle literally anything you can throw at it. I had to retighten all my seals on the water block to get it watertight again. As far as noise goes, this pump is very quiet with respect to its power output. It does have some noise on the lower hertz which will be noticeable unless you put the pump in some kind of soundproof enclouser. That said, I DO NOT reccomend this pump for anyone going for a silent rig as they will be sorely disapointed with the noise level. This pump is inteded for those where noise is not all that much of a concern and performance is the main goal. This model is 110 dollars for the WMD (American) and 160 for the MD (Japanese) model. This pump consumes rougly 45 watts of power, and dumps 14.5-20 watts of heat into the water.

MD-30RLT/WMD-30RLT
NOTE: Cathars recent test data show that this pump is rather useless due to the high heat output (50 watts). In light of this information, this pump will actually give you higher overall temperuates, regardless of radiator (even up to 2 3fan rads) and even with a gpu attached. So please do not get this pump. You will be wasting your money!
This pump is for those who have more money than they know what to do with and want to test how well they can seal their system from leaks. I only know of one person who owns one. Cathar... If your reading this you might not know him, but he is the inventor of the whitewater, cascade, and storm blocks. He doesn’t even use this pump in his system, just uses it for testing (cathar correct me if I’m wrong). This pump is basically the bigger brother of the MD-20RLT. Its specs are 8.5gallons per minute, and 17.7 feet of head. In other words u can have this pump on the first floor of your house and have the computer on the second floor if u want to. The price on this model is 125 for the WMD (American) model and 209 for the MD (Japanese) model. If anyone has any more info they want to add, just pm me. This pump consumes roughly 50 watts of power, making it useless in water cooling setup s due to the amount of heat that it puts into the loop.

BlueLine/Panworld
These pumps are very similar to the Iwakis. The head of the company of Blueline was previously the head engineer over at Iwaki. He branched off and started his own company Blueline. These pumps are very comparable to the Iwakis in performance and have similar part numbers (makes it easy to compare). As welll they are a little cheaper. All of there pumps can be boughten at Aquadirect (http://www.aquadirect.com/catalog/pumps/blueline.htm) and they even have a comparison of the equivalent Iwaki pumps. Upon further inspection the prices on these pumps are exactly the same as the American Iwaki's. So its really a tossup. I know of a few people over here at xtremesystems who use these pumps and they swear by them. So quality is not an issue. It should be noted that of the Bluelines they do not seem to have a "high head" model like the Iwaki Z series. But in the same respect the Z series are like urban legends in and of themselves.

12volt Pumps:

Laing DDc-1/DDC-2/MCP350/MCP355
The Laing DDC (MCP350) and DDC-2 (MCP355) are two excelent pumps. Stock, they come with 3/8" barbs, but that is easily changed with tops from companies like Petra's tech shop (my first reccomendation) and Alphacool. the DDC-1 consumes 9 watts of power and is virtually silent when mounted on foam/gel or suspended with rubber bands of some sort. The DDC-2, which has become wildly popular in recent months, consumes 18watts and is only marginally louder (still quieter than all other 12v and Extreme pumps listed in this guide). My reccomendation to you is that you seriously consider the DDC-2 (with the 1/2" barbs) if you have a system that has a dual 120mm rad or larger. The DDC or AQX50Z listed below for those of you with smaller radiators. There is one potential downside to the DDC. It appears that there have been numerous failures of the pump after appx 1week to 2months of use. The pump is under warranty, and there do not seem to be that many failures (percentage wise), but I feel obligated to provide all information. For more complete information on this pump and performance comparisons check out these threads. Performance Comparison of DDC-2 with 1/2" tops (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117215), More Petra'sTech DDC Pump Testing (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137484) and eXa's Guide to DDC Names and Specs (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118650)



AquaExtreme 50Z / MCP600 Rev2.0
This pump is actually better than the lainD4. I will say that right off the bat. Here is why. 1.It has more head pressure 2. Its cheaper. If you are in the market for a pump and dont want to spend the extra dough on an iwaki pump this IS the pump to get. and if you want a little lower temps go with 2 of them in series. This setup cannot be beat. It will give you approximately the same temps as running a iwaki md20RZ.
This pump was the previous version of the 12v pump that swiftech carried. They no longer carry it due to supply line issues, but it is a good pump. The rev 1 version had reliability issues with the impeller, but that is fixed now. The pump is called the 50Z and can be boughten at CoolTechnica (http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQX-50Z-DC12&Category_Code=P). This particular pump is not nearly as popular as the Laing D4's now, but I have heard reports that head to head, this pump will sometimes outperform the d4 in high pressure systems. Note that I do not have any hard proof of this (I am working on that), but there are reports. The specs are 3gallons per minute and 10.5 feet of head, with 1/2inch barbed fittings. The price is around 80 dollars over at cooltechnica. It sucks about 7 watts of power

MCP655 (D5)
This is the newly released laing pump that offers a considerable improvement over the previous D4. (April 2005 release date). Some of the imrpovements include reduced noise (D4 has a horrible whinning noise, though some say it is not noticeable), input all the way up to 24volts so you can overvolt it ALOT without voiding the warranty.(NOTE: Anything above ~12.8volts does not net more performance but rather just increases heat output and is not suggested to be overvolted above 12.8volts) The other feature that is noteable is the adjustable dial on the back of the pump that allows you to adjust the speed of the pump down when maximum performance is not needed. The power consumption of this pump is 24 watts and heatt dump is reported to be 18watts like the DDC-2. The maximum head pressure is 13.8 feet and maximum flow is 5.2gpm. The price is 75 dollars.

Laing D4 - Pump out of production - No longer reccomended
This is a great little pump that is marketed by danger den and swiftech. It replaced the mcp600 because of failures with the pump. But that is now fixed. It is actually weaker and more expensive than the mcp600, but it does improve on the operational life of the mcp600. So if you are going to have you pump for a very long time this might be a better choice. Other than that, the pump really does not provide the value and performance that the mcp600 does. it can be had over at www.dangerden.com under the name of d4. This pump costs 75 dollars. It sucks about about 15 watts of power

AC Pumps:
There are really only 2 choices of pumps that people are using, and thus I will not comment on any others. The Mag 3,5,or7 is one of these pumps. Please stay away from these pumps, as they are made to be submersed and are highly prone to leaking. If you insist on getting one please be sure to seal up the pump with some plumbers goop, or silicone sealer. Failure to do so could result in a very dead computer.

Hydor L35
This is a good inexpensive 120volt AC pump. I have heard many people have great success with this pump. There is also a L30 and L20, but with the L35 coming onto the market I wont talk about them, as you would most likely choose the mower powerful L35 over the other two. Its not as popular as some of the other pumps, but its a good pump. The price is around 50 dollars and it does 5.3 gallons per minute. It has a maximum head pressure of 6.83 feet and consumes 21watts. I should report that I have heard some not so great things about the reliability of this pump, and know of an alarmingly high number of RMA's. With that said, if you can afford to get a better pump do so. But if you dont have the money for a better pump, the L35 should be fine.

Eheim 1048
Eheim makes very good pumps and this pump is no exception. Many people used this pump before the D4 came out and many still do. Although it is not very powerful compared to other pumps, it is small, quiet, and highly reliable. I do not pump recommend this pump for restrictive systems with the new water blocks. If you have a less restrictive system and do not plan to do extreme over clocking then this pump will be fine. It pumps 2.63 gallons per minute and 4ft 11inches of head. It costs 49 dollars over and danger den.

Eheim 1250
This is the more commonly used Eheim pump. Again, like its little brother, it is highly reliable, wont leak, and quiet. It is a little bit bigger than the 1048. If you want specs on its exact size check out http://www.eheim.com . It pumps 4.4gallons per minute at 6ft 7inches of head. It costs 59 dollars over at danger den. I would recommend this pump to pretty much anyone who doesn’t want a 12v dc pump and wants a good reliable pump. This pump is still not the most powerful one out there, but it should work fine in most cases, except the more extreme systems that are more restrictive, or have allot of components. You can still use it with restrictive blocks and while using allot of components, but I would only recommend this if you do not plan to over clock to the max of the system, or if you plan to make a more silent system.




If anyone has ANYTHING they want to add please do not hesitate to pm me. If you think that any part of my post is biased or just incorrect, please let me know and I can change it to be more fair to all products.

Please do not Flame me for anything you don’t agree with. Just let me know and I can correct my post, given that you are correct.

[BMORIN]

Hydor L30

[Gascogne]

I have a Hydor L30 myself and it has never failed me once plus it is very quiet. :)

[MaxxxRacer]

I want a bit more performance than the l30. I shoudl have mentioned that Im going for max perforance on this. Im going to have a black ice extreme 2, danger den TDX and a maze4 for the gpu. All running on tygong 1/2inch id.

[Karnivore]

I have an Eheim 1250, been a good pump, but I would go with the MCP650 or the 12v pump DangerDen carries.

[JetForcegeminiX]

I've always recommended the danner mag 3 since it pushes 10.5 feet of head. but if you want the best start lookin at the iwakis and pumps of that caliber

[MaxxxRacer]

Well iwakis are great but I would need to get a loan to pay for one of those guys. Besides I dont have the room even in my full tower case.

The mags have great specs but ive heard alot of bad things about their reliability and leaking issues. I cant have either of those, as I dont have the money to buy myself a new system.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

get one of the swiftechs 650s or the danger den one. also if you are going for maximum performance dont get a crappy black i ce xtreme. get a heatercore. better performance and half the cost

[MaxxxRacer]

Dark hacker, (or anyone else) are the black ice extremes not high performing radiators. From what I have seen they are very good performers. Correct me if im wrong. As far as heatercores what would i get.

[Gogeta]

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=category&id=23&subid=26

Good site for heatercores pre-modded for watercooling.

As far as pumps go, its hard to match the performance/size ratio of either the Swiftech MCP650 or the equivalent Dangerden.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

ya get the premodded ones. i just got a double heater core in black which comes with the barbs already on. it is ig but worth it.

[MaxxxRacer]

http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/heatercore.asp

Would that dual heatercore be equivalent to the one over at voyeur mods? Its a bit cheaper, and it would be one less place to buy stuff from as I am alredy ordering alot from Danger den.

My budget just went up a bit. Well rather realocated itself as I no longer need to bother with the BIX and can get a heater core. Now i can spend about 120 on a pump and still be under budget. Time to look at the iwaki's

EDIT:
I was looking at the Iwaki pumps and I found their "low end" model and it has some pretty good specs on it. My question is if I will need to get adapters to fit 1/2inch ID tubbing on it. If so can somone help me with what I would need? Here is a link to it

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1223

EDIT 2:

I found the hose diamiters on it. one is 5/8 and the other is 3/4. Danger den sells a 5 dollar kit to reduce 5/8 to 1/2 but they dont have one for 3/4. I would think the 5/8 reducer woudl be fine for the 3/4. Let me know if im crazy.

[freecableguy]

Anything by Iwaki or Blueline...

[a5h]

i got the Iwaki MD-15R ..havn't fully tested it yet since im building my WC for my A64 rig atm now too... i should have it ready for its first test by next week or so. But remember they aren't submersible, they are not suction pumps, & they are heavy and big :D ...which is good ;) try find the iwaki's with barbs already ...i got the threaded version too ...and finding barbs that fit was a pain ...plus makes the pump even bigger.

i also got the eheim 1250 in my P4 rig, i love that too simply cuz it runs in all conditions ....submersible, its a suction pump and simply never dies (i had it run dry for a while by mistake and nothing).

[Gogeta]

Just wanted to say this about the Hydor L30. Definitely DON'T use this pump if you have a choice. I previously used an L30, and mine died within 5 months.

I now use a Panworld NH-30PX, which is equivalent to an Iwaki MD-15, but retails for about $100 US.

[MaxxxRacer]

As far as Iwakis go, I dont have the money for the japanese made ones. I would need to get the american made ones. Is there that much of a difference. It seems unlikely that the american made one is that much worse than the japanese one. On the websites they said that the japaense motor is just quieter. I can deal with a slightly noisier motor if that is the main difference.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by MaxxxRacer
As far as Iwakis go, I dont have the money for the japanese made ones. I would need to get the american made ones. Is there that much of a difference. It seems unlikely that the american made one is that much worse than the japanese one. On the websites they said that the japaense motor is just quieter. I can deal with a slightly noisier motor if that is the main difference.

you can often get iwakis cheap on ebay...
these are both very nice pumps @60hz...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3835871909

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4321649316

[MaxxxRacer]

I'll just go with the american made iwaki. I want to get this setup as soon as possible. Dont want to deal with ebay. Im more than confident that the american made iwaki will still bet the hell out of any hydor ehiem or the swiftec pump.

[a5h]

goodluck ...mine is Japanese, just checked, says: TOKYO JAPAN! :D

[Ancient_1]

Personally I would go for the D4/MCP650 and if I wanted more performance I would run two in series.

[MaxxxRacer]

My power supply cnat handle 2 of those pumps. Im on a 350 watt enermax. Ironicly though its 12v power rail is twice that of cheap 450watt psus. But still. I dont feel like frying my power supply.

to be perfectly clear. I have a 450watt cheap psu in my room. It puts out 17amps on the 12v line. My 350watt psu puts out 26amps on the 12v line. I think enermax was insanely conservative in their ratings.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by MaxxxRacer
My power supply cnat handle 2 of those pumps. Im on a 350 watt enermax. Ironicly though its 12v power rail is twice that of cheap 450watt psus. But still. I dont feel like frying my power supply.

to be perfectly clear. I have a 450watt cheap psu in my room. It puts out 17amps on the 12v line. My 350watt psu puts out 26amps on the 12v line. I think enermax was insanely conservative in their ratings.

i reckon your PSU could handle it (they don't draw much) ... but the downside is that a pair of them costs $160+ :(

the american iwakis are fine - i have a pair of wmd-30RZs myself.... ;) (bought on the recommendation of a guy on OCAU who'd owned both types)

@a5h - yes all the iwakis 15 and below only come with japanese motors...

[MaxxxRacer]

Yeah, that is a tad bit too expensive. The single iwaki 20 will have more power and flow than to of the swiftecs and it costs less and is less of a hassle to tube. The only problem i will face is getting the 1/2 tubbing over the 3/4 barbs i had to get for the iwaki pump. The aquairim place didnt have 3/4 to 1/2 reduce barbs with female threads.

Any suggestions on how to get the tubing over the 3/4 barbs. I heard one guy ran boiling watter and quikcly dunked the tubing in and then put it over the barb. So that it got it a little soft and then it just reshaped the tubbing. would this be a good or bad idea?

[The_Dark_Hacker]

why dont you just get the barbs off the internet at say www.mcmaster.com they will definatly have them. even if you do boil the tubing i dout you can get it to strech 1/4in especially with thich walled tubing

[MaxxxRacer]

I love mcmaster. Those dudes got everything. there is litteraly no piece of hardware those guys dont cary. Its the scarriest thing. Have you ever seen one of their catalog books. It makes the websters unabrigged dictionary seem like a pocket organizer.

EDIT: Marine depot (where im ordering the pump from) told me which parts i need to order from their site to get my system running. A sum total of 7 dollars worht of fittings and barbs. Not bad if u think about it. A bit easier for me. Mcmaster rocks but I like to keep my orders and grouped (not ordering from 5 places) as possible. Thanks for the help though. Now all that is left to order my system. That will be done in an hour or so.

[fareastgq]

I have a dannger mag 3, been running it for a year now, no leak issues or anything. a bit of neoprene on the bottom and my fridge is louder, heh. fyi, I took very much care to make sure I didn't crack the inlet/outlet or overtighten barbs in any way.

[MaxxxRacer]

Well thanks for all the help guys. I ordered the Iwaki last night. Hopefully it will be here in a few days so I can starting fitting it.

[Craig]

You're going to love that Iwaki, I hope you got the MD20rlzt version for maximum head rate. 22 ft. of head, WOW.

[freecableguy]

The aquairim place didnt have 3/4 to 1/2 reduce barbs with female threads.

I have an extra set. Black poly. 3/4" female NPT to 1/2" OD barbs (for 1/2" ID tubing). I can also show you where I got them in case you want to buy a set directly from the distributer:

http://www.amindustries.com/online.htm

Down in the bottom right of the right frame....3 from the bottom: "TAF10 128 PP" Order 2 (inlet and outlet) and get Ground shipping. Less than $10. (TAF10 128 if you want the natural/clear poly instead of black poly).

[freecableguy]

Craig - I got 25 ft of head with my pump! Talk about "wow" there!

[MaxxxRacer]

My pump should be here any minute now. Im just waiting on ups to get the damn thing to my door. tick tock tick tock.

I got the WMD20RLT. It said in the specs 14feet of head. More than enough considering the 100 dollar ehiem has 11 feet of head....

[Craig]

Originally posted by freecableguy
Craig - I got 25 ft of head with my pump! Talk about "wow" there!


How many watts does that pump draw?

Thanks

Craig:toast:

[freecableguy]

Craig - 98W.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by MaxxxRacer


http://images5.theimagehosting.com/internal_pump_net.jpg

hmm - have you tried putting it vertically?

[The_Dark_Hacker]

where would he put it verticaly

[The_Dark_Hacker]

no offense but that looks really horrible on the back like that

[Gogeta]

You could always cut a hole in the bottom of your case and put the case on "stilts."

Trying to think outside the box :D

[freecableguy]

Bad idea. You're pump might underperform with the volute of the impeller pointing down, this is a certifugal pump and you need to think about net positive suction head (NPSH)....mounting like that is horrible. Either horizontal or volute up if you absolutely have to have it vertical.

Also, get some kind of hose clamps, either the metal ring drive type of the plastic snap type for those hoses.

[MaxxxRacer]

The hose clamps are in the mail. the tubbing on there is some cheap tubing my dad had lying around that is 1/2inch ID. Im getting tygon.

to be honest cable guy i never thought it was a good idea for positioning the pump. I wil most likley have the pump sitting on teh ground next to the computer. And i can use the wood plate that the pump came attached to in the box to mount it to the bottom of the case so they are both sitting next to eachother if i ever need to move the case. I dont care about how ghetto it looks just as long as it works good.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by The_Dark_Hacker
where would he put it verticaly

well when i posted i was thinking between rad and mobo (with the motor at the bottom...) - looking again i think the case probably isn't tall enough though

[Jetlag]

Hi Fellas! Mr. Noob again. I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am to have found this forum and how much it has helped in the design of my first WC system! Thank you one and all! :)

Speaking of pumps, I've noticed a bit of similarity between the DD D4 and the MCP650. :rolleyes:

DD D4 left, MCP650 right:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ceht/data/DD D4 & MCP650.jpg

Their specifications/price seem to be indentical as well.

One pump that caught my attention but I have not seen it discussed here yet is the AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12. It is available here (http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQX-50Z-DC12&Category_Code=P) and here (http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=138). It looks to be priced the same as the DD and the Swifty.

Anyone using one? Thoughts?

***edit***
Danger Den D4 page (http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Pumps/dd12vd4.asp)
SwifTech MCP650 page (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp650.asp)
Laing DC Pump site (http://www.lainginc.com/D_Series.htm)

It shows an available 3/4" barbed Noryl pump housing. I wonder what effect that might have on it's performance?

[The_Dark_Hacker]

that pump is just a swiftech mcp 600 with a different logo on it

[MaxxxRacer]

In regard to the aqua extreme, I would stick with the D4 or swiftec. They are tried and true with countless numbers of people loving them. From what I have seen there are not many ppl that have the Aqua Extreme.

The D4 and Swifty are the same pump...

[socrat_bg]

i am also curiouse about aqua extreme ,because i already ordered aqua extreme. I prefer swiftech 650 butttt out of stock and next thing was aqua extreme
what is you opinion 10 f head is it so good as sw 650

[Weapon]

I lean towards the original Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One pump...

head in feet up the left - flow in gph across the bottom:
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/images/pchart.jpg

it's too bad pentair changed the design when they bought rainbow...

[Craig]

Any suggestions on how to get the tubing over the 3/4 barbs. I heard one guy ran boiling watter and quikcly dunked the tubing in and then put it over the barb. So that it got it a little soft and then it just reshaped the tubbing. would this be a good or bad idea?

Just buy a threaded female copper fitting & solder it to a very short section of 3/4" copper plumbing pipe. Now solder on a 3/4" to 1/2" normal plumbing bell reducer. Last solder in a short section of 1/2" copper plumbing pipe. Your 1/2" tube will now fit without much effort although the 1/2" copper pipe is still a bit larger. This may sound like it takes up a lot of space but your short sections of plumbers pipe only need to be long enough to connect between the other fittings.

[Craig]

Fellas that 50Z pump is in fact the same pump as the MCP600 that Swifty was selling. Swifteck dropped it from thier line when the manufacturer started selling pumps directly to some of the same distributors that Swiftech had been dealing them to. Swiftech made the eror of not having a exclusive contract with the manufacturer. So that 50Z is a fine pump and has very good head/flow ratios.

[MaxxxRacer]

craig thanks for the post, but ur a month too late. I just got some adapters that reduce the npt to 1/2 from 3/4. I got them from the same place as the pump. Besides the coper would not hae worked as the rest of the fittings are plastic.

[TyphooN]

I love my mag3, how much does that rainbow pump cost, weapon? and where can i get it.. I probably won't but if its a good price I'll recommend it to people, I like the mag3 cuz it is cheap and performs great. It isnt noisy, and if you replace the oring you won't get a leaking problem for sure.

[nas]

got me here the md 30 RZ on a 220V version and man does this thing have some power :P
36ft head...

[Byron]

There is also the Eheim 1260 for max performance but tbh, even a L30/1250 will do fine with those two waterblocks...
Or you can put two L30's in series to increase the head pressure ;)
You can find 2 L30's for the price of one 1250Eheim here in UK :P

[Gogeta]

You can find 2 L30's for the price of one 1250Eheim here in UK :p

Thats because the L30 is a piece ;)

[Byron]

A piece?

[Torin]

a piece of :banana:

[Byron]

Heard many stories yeh... but mine works OK so far (6months now).

[Gogeta]

I only call it a piece because I used one for 5 months in a loop where it ran 24/7 before it died a horrible death. Lucky for me, the PC was off.

[Byron]

Cant say no, my first one died after 5 months as well running 24/7 but had done some experiments with my first watercooler during a clean process with bleach and some other things... the impeller shaft got rust and the impeller cracked at a point making it noisy :D
Since i received a replacement, 6 months so far works ok and quiet.

[Tedinde]

I've always recommended the danner mag 3 since it pushes 10.5 feet of head. but if you want the best start lookin at the iwakis and pumps of that caliber

I've been using a danner mag drive 7 for 4.5 years in various rigs and it's still going strong. I can wash my car with this pump!!!

[MaxxxRacer]

Rainbow pumps can be had here

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps_pentair_aquatics_rainbow_lifegard_q uiet_one.asp?CartId=

Price from 25 up to 140.

I dont suggest these pumps as they are designed for high flow in an unrestircted enviornment. They would perform horridly in a pc cooling loop.

[=[PULSAR]=]

I see all this talk about great pumps and agree they lower temps, but doesnt it come to a limit of what the blocks and tubing is pressure tested at? Whats an average blocks max pressure?

[MaxxxRacer]

well danger den blocks are tested to 85psi.. there is no pump alive that can produce 85psi. atleast none that we can hook up to our cooling systems. So the limit is not in there.

[=[PULSAR]=]

0o0o0o0o in that case I think I'm gonna try a 2000GPH pump...lol :lol:

[MaxxxRacer]

u mean the md-40rlt... sure why not...

[slavik]

gen-x pcx-30 looks like a good pump, any reliability issues?

also for consideration is the blueline hd20 and the little giant pumps ...

EDIT: the Little Giant 'Quarium Series Magnetic Drive pump 2-MDQ-SC has 14.4 max head in feet, 510GPH at 0' head (450 at 4'), costs 85USD ...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4614&R=17034&N=2004+113041+113565&in_merch=1

[MaxxxRacer]

The blue line pumps are wonderful pumps, based of iwaki designs. The 2-MDQ-sc seems liekthe way to go. It has roughly the same specs as the iwaki MD-20, but it uses 1/2inch npt fittings which means for us that it is meant to be on 1/2inch and wont immdialty get restricted down by it. I will edit the fact with this particular pump when i get home.

Havnt heard anything on the gen-x pumps. Maybe someone has one that could give me some worth while info to put into the guilde. If so, I would be happy to put it into the extreme pump section.

[Weapon]

Rainbow pumps can be had here

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps_pentair_aquatics_rainbow_lifegard_q uiet_one.asp?CartId=

Price from 25 up to 140.

I dont suggest these pumps as they are designed for high flow in an unrestircted enviornment. They would perform horridly in a pc cooling loop.

actually, marine depot is only half right with that listing - that is the Pentair Aquatics version of the Rainbow Quiet One - it looks neither looks like original nor functions like it. The original RLQO is an isolated wet rotor pump -- the isolated wet rotor was one of the best features as it kept the heat dumping to a minimum. Additionally, they were mostly made of metal and were in no way, shape or form designed for an "unrestricted environment" - if that were true, I doubt they would be capable of moving 600gph at 9' of head.

While many aquatics shops will try to tell you that the new 4000 high head model is the "direct replacement" for the orig. RLQO, none of the performance numbers match up and the original beats it across the board as far as I can tell.

Still, if you look at the 4000HH, it is definitely not meant for an unrestricted environment either. The "HH" in the name stands for "High Head" - according to the chart for that pump, it will move 600gph at 9 feet and it has a max head of 13ft. For that matter, all of the new model Quiet One pumps from the model 3000 and up are rated for 10 feet of head or above. Despite their ratings, they do not live up the original which is the best H2O pump I have found (and that includes the Iwakis in my collection :p: )

[moosturdsoed25]

Actually, at 16v, two Laing D4 pumps can match an Iwaki MD-40RZ. Hmmmm, they are very powerful in series and compact. Plus, they run off of 12v DC power supplies. Something to consider...

[The_Dark_Hacker]

how do you run them at 16 volts

[Torin]

The blue line pumps are wonderful pumps, based of iwaki designs. The 2-MDQ-sc seems liekthe way to go. It has roughly the same specs as the iwaki MD-20, but it uses 1/2inch npt fittings which means for us that it is meant to be on 1/2inch and wont immdialty get restricted down by it. I will edit the fact with this particular pump when i get home.

Any idea on how loud this pump is? I've never heard of anyone using a Little Giant pump. I took a look at the pics of it, and I'm wondering how you would connect 1/2" ID tubing to those inlets and outlets, adapters of some sort no doubt. The price is right though, and if they are comparable to Iwaki and BlueLine, it would be a good alternative, as they aren't very large in size either.

[MaxxxRacer]

moosturd. I didnt list those in the fact, as they are cost prohibitive and a pain in the ass to setup. Yes they are insanely powerful in series, but you'll have more than enough fun just setting the pumps up. Cathar is the only one running those pumps in series to my knowledge. he loves them, but says they are a bit loud. I think he has them in a sound box. odd that he says they are loud though, as he is the only one that i know of with the noise issue.

Torin: There is one guy around here the uses a blue line pump. You would haveto ask him about the noise on it. I will look for his name so you can pm him or something. Freecableguy. That is his name. He posted in this thread before on page one.

Weapon: Those rainbow pumps listed, even the high head one is 13 feet of head. my iwaki does 14 feet of head and it isnt even the high head model. the high head model of the iwaki i have is 24feet of head. And it is 1 inch and 3/4. Looking at the intake nozle of 1 inch i would presume it would start to get cavitation as it needs alot of water to be going into it. With 1/2inch on it, there would be a heck of alot of restriction. Granted i am just presuming this from the specs that they give compared to other pumps on the market, but for the money to performance, the rainbow would be a poor choice. the high head model is 135 dollars and the iwaki wmd-20 can be had for 104 with higher head and smaller fittings (exhaust fitting is the same)

Dark Hacker: I'm not sure how cathard did it, but I would presume to use a dc power supply that they use for pelts. they are generic in design and have leads on the back of them to screw into. Many of them have voltage adjustments from 12 to 24 volts. If you dont want to do that im sure there is some way to mod the psu to putput 16 volts instead of 12 by replacing some resistors along with some caps to clean up the signal.

[Torin]

The 2-MDQ-sc pump is branded "Little Giant", not BlueLine. Are they the same thing? The pumps don't look that similiar...

[moosturdsoed25]

I think Gogeta also runs with blueline pumps, check my thread about a guide to watercooling.

[slavik]

no, they are not ...

genx pcx30, little giant 2-mdq-sc, iwaki 20-rtl, blueline hd20

are the 4 pumps which I think are the closest to performance with eachother that are on the market ...

also, when looking at power and how much heat is dumped, look at two factors:
power input (power used by the motor)
power output (power used to move the watter)

the rest of the power is wasted as heat in the motor coil and whereever else ... the more wasted power the higher the temperature of the pump and the higher the temperature of the water can be ...

for example ...
a 100watt CPU doesn't dump ALL of it as heat ... maybe most of it but not ALL of it ... 100watt rating is heat consumption, same with small coil heaters (one u drop in the water), they are rated by power input, not power output or power wasted ...

I saw a pump (don't remember which one), the power input was 360watts, the power output was like 160watts or something ... don't remember what pump it was :(

another thing to consider is the torque of the motor (the higher the torque the higher the head shutoff)

1watt is about picking up a glass of water from a table to your mouth in 1 second (watt = work done in joules / time)
1Calorie = amount of work needed to heat 1g of water by 1C
1Calorie = 4.19... Joules (let's estimate at 4 for easy calculations :))

100WATTS of "heat" to be dissapated (heat is measured in Calories, not watts, watt is a unit of power) = 25Calories/second ...
which means that the source can heat 25grams of water by 1C in 1 second, with water starting at 25C, it will take a minute and 15seconds to boil that water ...

according to some testing by procooling, water heats up by about 0.5C as it passes through the CPU waterblock ... assume CPU wastes 80watts of power ~ 20calories/second (very rough estimates), means that 40grams of water pass through each second to take the heat :)

Sorry for this OT, if you consider it OT :)

The 2-MDQ-sc pump is branded "Little Giant", not BlueLine. Are they the same thing? The pumps don't look that similiar...

[=[PULSAR]=]

Just cruisin around marinedepot and found this pump 700GPH with 1/2" fittings only $55 and its a great size too, what do you guys think about this one?

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idProduct=DN1125

[saaya]

slavik, a cpu doesnt dump all its conumed power as heat, but its 99% :D

so it pretty much DOES dump all his conumed heat as power as do all ics.

and yes! dont underestimate the power dissipation of high end pumps. it can be as much as adding a mid end videocard or low end cpu to your cooling loop!

if you have a high performence pump i recommend you to try to run it before the radiator. if its a 1 pipe radiator then it wont harm the flow yet will get rid of the heat produced by the pump :)

if you run it after the radiator the water that has just been cooled down nicely and is moving to your pcu and gpu will be heated up again by the pump, effectively increasing the water temp in your loop, no matter how well the radiator works.

if its a multi channel radiator/heatercore it might hit the flowrate, but could still be worth a try.

[Vandread]

Some simple questions from a simple soul... ;)
Does an iwaki md15 give of a lot of heat to the water?
And how loud is it?

[Torin]

Anyone have any idea how loud 2 MCP650s would be running together?

[saaya]

afaik iwakis are very silent and if you can post the specs of the pump (power consumption) i can tell you how much heat it will probably add to the loop.

torin, thats hard to say...

why do you want two pumps and why do you want the mcp650? not that i think its a bad pump, just wondering. :)

[Torin]

Space constraints... I want to place a divider in my rad box to seperate the airflow around my rad from the airflow around my pump(s).... and to fit an Iwaki/BlueLine in a completely seperate space from the rad would take a really big box, bigger than I wanted to make... but 2 Laing D4s would fit perfectly in the extra space not taken up by the rad.

[MaxxxRacer]

Torin, about the noise. The two of those pumps in series is a supposed to be kinda noisy. If you want someone who really knows, go over to procooling and ask cathar. you can find him all over the water cooling forums. He runs those pumps in series.

Vandread: the Iwaki Md-15 is incredibly queit, as are all of the iwakis. The iwakis use a design that seperatesthe impeller from the rest of the pump to reduce heat transfer to water so it should not be bad at all given that it is a high power pump.

Pulsar: That is a mag pump. They have great specs, but are dangerous. They are very much so prone to leaks. I dont suggest getting one at all. I have heard many more horror stories than I have heard succes stories with those pumps.

Saaya: Cathar did some calculations with his Md-30 and the amount of heat that it dumps into the water as it goes through the pump is roughly .5C if that. Its very very minimal when u consider the C/W of water. considering this information, the impact of having the rad before the heatsinks ins nearly indistinguisable, and will have nearly 0 affect on your overclock and your temperatures. I would say the end reuslt will be a cpu tempueratre drop of .1C with the rad after the pump. And u have to also consdier the pressure drop of going through the rad. So in the end u come up pretty much even.

[Vandread]

Vandread: the Iwaki Md-15 is incredibly queit, as are all of the iwakis. The iwakis use a design that seperatesthe impeller from the rest of the pump to reduce heat transfer to water so it should not be bad at all given that it is a high power pump.
thx :) i read that stuff but wasnt sure cuz it was on a dutch page.
Now lets hope they can suply me with a nice md15 for a nice price here in holland :rolleyes:

[MaxxxRacer]

Finding a sane price on an iwaki anywhere is impossible. They are all insanely expensive. But worth every penny.

[Vandread]

Finding a sane price on an iwaki anywhere is impossible. They are all insanely expensive. But worth every penny.
I'm trying directly from the import company... lets hope they are nice and send me one cheap :stick:

[MaxxxRacer]

ahh ic.. good idea. didnt know u could do that. Atleats in small quantities. Usually they make u order them by the 100's

[slavik]

the iwaki MD-20r has power input of 50watts and power output of 20watts ... which means 30watts are converted to heat and dumped into the water/air ... (most of it goes into the air IMO)

[saaya]

water is more conductive and absorbs the heat faster, and its closer to the hot parts of the pump, so im not sure about most of the heat going to the air and not the water. most people have the pump in the case with a case temp that is above the ambient temp, and the rads are usually cooling the water to ambient temp or very very close to it, so the water is cooler as the air as well, wich means the heat will rather go to the water.

correct me if im wrong.

max, i thougt there is no difference with ahving the radiator in front or after the pump flow wise... the restricitions are the same, whether the pump is sucking the water from one side to the other or pulling it from one side to the other, no?

and the difference is minimal, yes, but it IS cooler that way afaik :D hardly meassurable in most cases, but it IS cooler :lol: welcome to XtremeSystems :slobber: hahahahah

and with pumps that emit more than the iwaki to the water there will actually be a temp drop of 1C, if you ask me thats a nice tweak :)

and thats waht i was referring to, people with REALLY powerfull pumps, like 1000gph and sick stuff like that, seen several people with pumps like that already :) including some frak tweaker, some mad cookie eater calling himself saaya ;D slightly less than 1000gph for me though :D

pump consumes 250W and is rather noisy, plus its like 4x the size of an iwaki

:X

thats why im using my enermax 300gph value inline pump most of the time.

[MaxxxRacer]

Saaya, about the flow being different. The total amount of water movement is exactly the same (same componenets different order), But the pressure being delivered to the waterblock wil be less. When there is nothing before the waterblock then it can jet the water into the block with more force. then the water will be slowed down as it goes through the block. Let me know if it that makes any sense.

here is the thing about pumps dumping heat into the water. If your comptuter system dumps 100 wats into the water (the cpu, if u only have hte cpu cooler conected) and u have a 250 watt pump ur not doing yourself any service. With 250 watts of pump then a decent portion (prolly around 75 watts will be dumped into the water that is ocnsidering itsa good pump that is designed not to dump heat into the water) that means that the water is going to get warm enough to make it so that the extra flow is not going to help you. thats just the way it is...

Basicly, you want your pump wattage to be less than the cpu wattage. Granted if you have the gpu in the loop, then u want the gpu+cpu wattage to be more than the pump. IF it isnt then it will hurt ur perfromance.

About the iwakis, and how they dump heat into the water: I agree that most of it is dumped into the air. If u feel the back half of the pump it is very warm, but if u touch where the head is, it is very cool. this says to me that the pump is not putting much heat into the water. Iwaki even states this as one of their design features. The head is seperated from the motor to keep it cool. the only problem with that being that the motor itself gets hotter due to nothing cooling it.

Saaya, with your 250watt pump, well lets just say ur not doing urself any favors there. your system doesnt drain 250 watts even under max load with it overclocked. The only thing that coems close is a 6800ultra extreme and a 3.6ghz prescott... Actualy that might actually get to 250 watts if im not mistaken.

[Torin]

Where is the cheapest place I can find a Laing D4? I cheapest one I've found is a DD model for $70 + s/h.

And what is the difference between the muffled and non-muffled versions? Any performance differences?

[slavik]

what I want to see is a comparison between the 4 pumps ...

blueline hd20 consumes the least power at 45watts ...

a sound pressure comparison would be great ...

Saaya, about the flow being different. The total amount of water movement is exactly the same (same componenets different order), But the pressure being delivered to the waterblock wil be less. When there is nothing before the waterblock then it can jet the water into the block with more force. then the water will be slowed down as it goes through the block. Let me know if it that makes any sense.

here is the thing about pumps dumping heat into the water. If your comptuter system dumps 100 wats into the water (the cpu, if u only have hte cpu cooler conected) and u have a 250 watt pump ur not doing yourself any service. With 250 watts of pump then a decent portion (prolly around 75 watts will be dumped into the water that is ocnsidering itsa good pump that is designed not to dump heat into the water) that means that the water is going to get warm enough to make it so that the extra flow is not going to help you. thats just the way it is...

Basicly, you want your pump wattage to be less than the cpu wattage. Granted if you have the gpu in the loop, then u want the gpu+cpu wattage to be more than the pump. IF it isnt then it will hurt ur perfromance.

About the iwakis, and how they dump heat into the water: I agree that most of it is dumped into the air. If u feel the back half of the pump it is very warm, but if u touch where the head is, it is very cool. this says to me that the pump is not putting much heat into the water. Iwaki even states this as one of their design features. The head is seperated from the motor to keep it cool. the only problem with that being that the motor itself gets hotter due to nothing cooling it.

Saaya, with your 250watt pump, well lets just say ur not doing urself any favors there. your system doesnt drain 250 watts even under max load with it overclocked. The only thing that coems close is a 6800ultra extreme and a 3.6ghz prescott... Actualy that might actually get to 250 watts if im not mistaken.

[saaya]

Saaya, about the flow being different. The total amount of water movement is exactly the same (same componenets different order), But the pressure being delivered to the waterblock wil be less. When there is nothing before the waterblock then it can jet the water into the block with more force. then the water will be slowed down as it goes through the block. Let me know if it that makes any sense.

yes, that makes sence...

100% pressure -> block ->80% pressure -> rad -> 60% pressure
100% pressure ->radiator -> 80% pressure -> block -> 60% pressure

thats what you mean right?

but then think about this, after the block with a lower pressure cmes what? the pump again. the pump sucks the water from the back as fast as it blows it to the front in a closed loop. so it pulls the water again.

a restriction in the loop increases the pressure and reduces the flowspeed, no?

but in a closed loop we always have the same flowspeed, everywhere in the loop? am i wrong? this is confusing me :p:

hmmmm i keep thinking about it but im not sure....

ok, open loop:

a pump creates a pressure shift. low pressure on one side and high pressure on the other, this makes the water move from a higher pressure region (res) towards the pump (inlet) wich is a lower pressure region. and from the pump (outlet) wich is a higher pressure region it moves to a lower pressure region (res)

restrictions create a higher pressure region on the side the water is comming from. the preassure on the side of the restriction the water is flowing to is defined by the pressure its flowing to.

so we kinda have to think backwards, a restriction at the end of an open loop increases the pressure in the entire loop in the direction the water is comming from.

so for an open loop your right, the pressure drops after each restriction (rad/block)

but what about a closed loop?

and now the most important question, does the pressure matter at all?

a block performs not better with water under a higher pressure in it as the density of the water hardly changes at all, BUT it perfoms better the higher pressure DIFFERENCE between the inlet and the outlet is, right?

so now we need to think and find out if the pressure difference between the blocks inlet and outlet changes :p:



here is the thing about pumps dumping heat into the water. If your comptuter system dumps 100 wats into the water (the cpu, if u only have hte cpu cooler conected) and u have a 250 watt pump ur not doing yourself any service. With 250 watts of pump then a decent portion (prolly around 75 watts will be dumped into the water that is ocnsidering itsa good pump that is designed not to dump heat into the water) that means that the water is going to get warm enough to make it so that the extra flow is not going to help you. thats just the way it is... i know, thats why im not using my 250W pump and made that post saying people should not get too big pumps as more and more gph isnt always better, theres a time where its just too much because the heat of the pump gets involved.


Basicly, you want your pump wattage to be less than the cpu wattage. Granted if you have the gpu in the loop, then u want the gpu+cpu wattage to be more than the pump. IF it isnt then it will hurt ur perfromance.
what does it have to do with the gpu and cpu wattage? id rather say it has to do with the rads capability of removing heat. if your rad is at its limits of dissipating the heat without giving you higher than ambient water temps, den a 10-20W of extra heat from a bigger pump can mean a few °C higher water temps.


About the iwakis, and how they dump heat into the water: I agree that most of it is dumped into the air. If u feel the back half of the pump it is very warm, but if u touch where the head is, it is very cool. this says to me that the pump is not putting much heat into the water. Iwaki even states this as one of their design features. The head is seperated from the motor to keep it cool. the only problem with that being that the motor itself gets hotter due to nothing cooling it. i need an iwaki :D


Saaya, with your 250watt pump, well lets just say ur not doing urself any favors there. your system doesnt drain 250 watts even under max load with it overclocked. The only thing that coems close is a 6800ultra extreme and a 3.6ghz prescott... Actualy that might actually get to 250 watts if im not mistaken. ??? im not using that pump, i told you guys im not using it but a 300gph eheim value pump... and i said myself that im not using it as it adds way too much heat to the water and doesnt help my temps, so please stop lecturing me, lol :D

and a prescott 3.6ghz with a 6800ultra will be 250W+ stock :eek:

[slavik]

saaya, from my knowledge of pumps, they don't suck as good as they blow (pun intended :D)

using a water loop comparison to a simple electric circuit (battery, resistor, capacity, bulb), the water(electron) flow will be the same in every part of the circuit ... so, add all psi values from the parts and look at the P-Q curve to find actual flow ...

one thing that WILL change is the velocity of flow ... on the new storm block, velocity will be higher (part of the block design, but not point of the post) ...

also, like my experience with the SLK947U, I think it is possible to reach a point, where higher flow will not make a difference (I changed 80mm tornado for a 92mm tornado) ... assuming pump doesn't add any heat in the water ...

[MaxxxRacer]

Saaya, think of it this way. the engergy that the pump has put into the water is the velocity and force it has. when the water goes through something restricing this force is reduced. in a waterblock like thew new swifty who gives to :banana::banana::banana::banana:s. it doesnt matter. but for the tdx rbx and storm (as well as others) it is injecting the water into the block. thus it needs to have as much energy (not heat engergy) as it can get to push itself in there. It bleeds off pressure when it goes through the block, and you want the maximum psi the pump can deliver when it goes into the block. the force that the water is moving into my res is not the same as it is when its going into my waterblock... flow is the same but that is a bit different. I know its hard to believe and understand (dont quite fully understand it myself) but it works out.

As far as the wattage of the gpu and cpu needing to be higer than the pump, my point was t hat if the heat the pump is putting into te water is higher than that of the gpu or cpu, you might as well get a smaller pump, or add yoursef another video card.. lol Granted with a really huge rad then it will help counteract this effect, but if you have a low power consumption, having more water flow is only going to get it so cool. there is the effeciency of the blocks themselves that determine the absolute coolest temp. i hope this makes more sense. i learned this from cathar btw.

I was just messing with you on the 250wat pump saaya. i know u said that u dont use it any more. i just dont want other ppl thinking that its a good idea. best to say it twice that its not helpful.. sometimes ppl dont read everything...

And yes you do need an iwaki. they absolutley rule. If iwaki made a md-40 wit 1/2inch barbs that would be the sweetest. no modding and like 50 feet of head. at that point u would be testing the psi raitng on the cpu and gpu blocks! lol

[slavik]

I think the enerjy that is not heat you are reffering to is "momentum", correct?

also, I think as long as the total heat put into water by ALL components that actually DO put heat in the water don't exceed the "threshhold" for the rad, it's all fine ...

also, it is very nice when the pump puts the east amount of heat into the water as possible :)

[Mosad]

Which pump, out of three discussed here, is the most silent of them all?

[MaxxxRacer]

probably the weakest power eheim.

But to be honest i really dont know...

Some people will probably say which is the quietest, but they dont really know as they havnt used every one of the pumps on my tut. and there arnt any noise mesaurments for them...

But to be honest, most of them are very quiet...

[moosturdsoed25]

Eheim 1046--Dead Silent

[Craig]

As pointed out, the Z type Iwakis are so hard for people to find they often use the L instead. Well here is a site that DOES have the Iwaki Z, and they have it in both the MD20RLZT (threaded inlet/outlet) & they have the even harder to find MD20RLZ (hose barbs on the pump already). They also have the WMD20RLZT with the american moter which is said to be both a bit hoter running & a bit louder.

www.customaquatic.com

Anyone considering buying the L type Iwaki should really give the Panworld/Blueline a good look first. The reason to buy & pay the price of the Iwaki's is to get the Z type pumps, otherwise the Panworld PX40 is a nearly identical match for the MD20L type Iwaki. And it's a lot lower priced. And from reading at differant sites regarding these pumps (aquarium sites) the PX40's noise level is compared to that of the Iwaki MD20 with the japanese motor. You can buy these Panworld pumps at:

www.marinedepot.com

[Craig]

Another site that offers Panworld/Blueline pumps.

www.premiumaquatics.com

They have the 30PX which is equal to the MD15 for $92.00

[esuyengh]

If you are willing to go used, you might find an Iwaki RZ on ebay occasionally. I got my MD-30RZ off their for 69 bucks (add on another 15 for shipping). I actually got mine less than 4 months ago. The guy selling them was from a company that actually had just upgraded to an even more powerful Iwaki pump in some huge manufacturing machine; he personally guaranteed that the company had tested them and even opened them up for cleaning and wear and tear check. I am really satisfied with it, and the impeller does look in good condition.

I have to agree in general that the Iwaki pumps are silent. Although mine is so powerful it does have this sort of powering up humm. It kind of reminds me of the sound effect they used for the Delorian (spelling???) in Back to the Future.

[MaxxxRacer]

The Iwaki noise is a deeper sound. It isnt like the whiny sound of fans. Its a powerful rumbling type of sound. It feels like a really weak sub (speaker) is going. But its low enough that when the computers fans are on (even on low) it gets washed out and u cant tell its there. Just as long as the pump doesnt touch anything metal. If the pump touches your case it will sound like you are running a saw zall in ur room. It makes the case vibrate like a back massager... Thats why i run my pump with it sitting on the carpet outside of the case.. makes tubing easier and it makes the system quieter and easier to work on.. Just not portable.

[LANjack]

Anyone have any comments on mcp650, good or bad?

I'm looking to get a small 12v pump that has good head. Ultimately I'd like to house the pump inside the case, with some sort of custom fixation for the heatercore to the side of the case. These marine pumps look big, are they?
Oh this would be probably a pretty resctrictive loop. Ultimately I would be phase cooling the cpu, but until I can save the money, I'm going to be cooling cpu, gpu, and eventually ram. I hope to run 1/2" tubing.


Any other suggestions/advice is mucho appreciated. :stick: :toast:

[The_Dark_Hacker]

i like them. i have one. if you are going to use them i recommend getting 2 and running them in seriies. i was thinking about getting 2 but i have to wait till i build a rad box

[LANjack]

Yea but running two would kind of take the point out of buying it because its smaller, no? I think Ill get some dimension specs on the others, they don't look too big in some of the gallery pictures.

[MaxxxRacer]

the mcp650 (lain d4) is realy small compared to the marine pumps. The marine pumps when hooked up around around 4 to 5 inches tall and about a foot long.. Suffice to say the are freeking huge. But I love mine...

[LANjack]

After lots of careful consideration, I've decided to go with the BlueLine HD20 Water Pump 420gph #495 @ 109$, it's supposed to be the same as the iwaki md20, and supposedly quieter. :D

[Holst]

Ive been very happy with my eheim 1250 pump.
Just about the right size for watercooling and very well built and reliable.

[slavik]

I assembled a water system for my friend with an L30 (or L35) and to hear it, I had to move my ear to about 6" and then I heard a quiet humm

I am sure that pumps in general would be quieter, because even though water transfers sound much better than air, water density is much higher, so the sound spreads out more and travels more (by molecule) than in air

what I mean by travels more is that in air, a string of 100molecules will be longer than a strain of 100 molecules in water (so sound travels through more molecules in water and gets dampened)

The Iwaki noise is a deeper sound. It isnt like the whiny sound of fans. Its a powerful rumbling type of sound. It feels like a really weak sub (speaker) is going. But its low enough that when the computers fans are on (even on low) it gets washed out and u cant tell its there. Just as long as the pump doesnt touch anything metal. If the pump touches your case it will sound like you are running a saw zall in ur room. It makes the case vibrate like a back massager... Thats why i run my pump with it sitting on the carpet outside of the case.. makes tubing easier and it makes the system quieter and easier to work on.. Just not portable.

[LANjack]

So with the Iwaki RZT, am I correct in assuming that you would need some serious clamps on the hoses for that kind of pressure?

[Craig]

So with the Iwaki RZT, am I correct in assuming that you would need some serious clamps on the hoses for that kind of pressure?

Hose clamps should be used with all pumps to insure no leaks. Higher pressure pumps do need them more, but they are always a good idea. Worm drive clamps are my choice with my MD20Z.

[MaxxxRacer]

I use the plastic ones, but I have to go with craig on this one. The steel hose clamps that you screw tight are the much better way to go. they are ugly, but they get alot more pressure than the plastic ones. Even with my hose clamps I had some issues with my tdx leaking when i shortened up the tubing line going from the iwaki. But i quickly fixed it by retightening everything in the area.

[Craig]

...... they are ugly, but they get alot more pressure than the plastic ones.

Hmmm, OK, for bling....www.pi-thon.com

Originally for show car lines. They'll hold any pressure from a PC water pump ......5X over. Bit expensive however.

And to go with them check out the anodized alum fans here.......www.so-trickcomputers.com

Hope these links help...... ;) :toast:

[Holst]

I use silicone hoze, which is quite thick and soft.

As its so soft it sort of "sticks" to the barbs, so you dont need to use clamps.
I just use tyewraps so you cant pull the hoze off by accident.

Appart from not being clear its the best watercooling hoze by a long way IMHO.

[blowsion]

am having an alphacool 900 liter pump it can go all the way up to 1500 liter if u put 24 v on it

[MaxxxRacer]

Interesting. Does it dump alot of heat into the system? Got any pics or pq curves I can take a look at.

[blowsion]

http://www.alphacool.de more info can be found on this page

[nikhsub1]

The ultimate pump I've found so far: Iwaki RD-30 24v

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/blackcube/rd30/rd30.JPG

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/rd30/rdandg5.jpg

[MaxxxRacer]

I heard cathar talk about it but ive never seen one...

Nick, got any other specs like heat output on that baby.. it sure looks purty... Also what fittings does it use.. I would like to put this in the uberleetxtreme category in my guide..

That thing gives more head that a porn star... scarry!

[nikhsub1]

I heard cathar talk about it but ive never seen one...

Nick, got any other specs like heat output on that baby.. it sure looks purty... Also what fittings does it use.. I would like to put this in the uberleetxtreme category in my guide..

That thing gives more head that a porn star... scarry!
Well the specs say it runs on 3.2A at 24v, so 3.2 x 24 = 76.8W consumption. Cathar thinks this is in reality much lower, my multimeter won't read the AC, need a new on. Anyway, at 18V, Cathar estimate about 23w gets to the water or 83% of consumption. See here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=131802&postcount=182 and here for a P/Q at 18v: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=131502&postcount=153

The pump has 3/4" barbed fittings, the only way it comes. You can get 1/2" OD tubing on it, but it is a biatch.

Maxxx, keep in mind that pumps in regards to heat output will vary greatly depending on what is being cooled, the heat load and the rad(s) used. For HOT CPU's and GPU cooling, pump heat is MUCH less of a concern than say a stock cpu with a small rad. My system for example will benefit from more power and wont really care about the additional pump heat, My Pressy at 4Ghz probably pumps out 130W or so, my vid card maybe another 40W and then I have the 120.3. With that said, Cathar has ranked the RD-30 as numero uno among all the pumps thus far at 18v.

[EnJoY]

How do you make it run at 18v? Also, where did you buy that? I'd like to pick up the RD-20 maybe. :)

[MaxxxRacer]

u run it at 18volts with a meanwell power supply or something equivalent... same thing used to power TECs...

Nick, I know abut hte heat being less of a factor in hotter systems, I was just curious...

[nikhsub1]

Yes, I have a meanwell S-240-24 that has a voltage adjustment knob right on the back, very handy. The pump can sustain 26v according to specs, I will most likely just run the sucker at 24v. I would imagine 26v would give it close to a 40 foot head :p:

These pumps are VERY hard to come by... I found a guy selling 6 brand new on ebay for about $100 each, I bought 2 but got 3; The first pump I received has a broken mounting tab, the pump is fine but one of the mounting tabs broke clean off, I still have the tab and the pump, the seller told me to just keep it, he sent me a new one and got reimbursed by UPS for the damage. I then bought another one for Cathar and sent it to him. So, I have a perfectly brand new RD-30 with a broken mounting tab sitting here. No I am NOT selling it, sorry!

[MaxxxRacer]

nick my good friend. have you heard of the offer you cant refuse :p: :lol: I have one for your for that rd-30..

But seriously.. is there anywhere that we can consistently get these.. I want to add them to my sticky but I wont do so until I can find a reliable place to get them.. I dont want to send ppl on a wild goose chase and have them pming me like mad to find these things..

also was cathar able to find a 12volt version of this pump. If there was a 12volt version it really would be the ultimate solution...

[EnJoY]

http://www.ryanhercoproducts.com/Auto/GRPindex.cfm?FAM=550&SEC=640&GRP=400

;) Make the call it seems...

[The_Dark_Hacker]

i want one of those pumps. they are beautiful. does that thing weight like 50 pounds. it looks like it

[EnJoY]

No, that pump weighs about 2 1/2 pounds. Here is a link to information on all the RD series pumps, I believe you could order them from this site as well: http://www.oberread.com/IW_RD_Series.htm

[MaxxxRacer]

thanks for the info enjoy.. looks like when i unlazy myself i will give them a call and get the info on the pricing and then put it on the sticky..

[EnJoY]

That'd be excellent, because that would mean less work for me. :) Try to do that asap, I'm dying to know how much the RD 20 is.

[MaxxxRacer]

ill get prices on both then.... they both seem like xtreme options for us. too bad i dont have a menawell psu and alot of extra cash... but i like my wmd20... ill use it till it dies.. which will be after i get married prolly.. lol..

[EnJoY]

What do you think is a better option, because I can do both.

The Iwaki MD20RZT or 2 Aquaxtreme 50z's?

[nikhsub1]

What do you think is a better option, because I can do both.

The Iwaki MD20RZT or 2 Aquaxtreme 50z's?
Single RZT. Much more reliable, Iwaki's are tanks.

[EnJoY]

What about performance and noise? Also better with the iwaki?

[nikhsub1]

What about performance and noise? Also better with the iwaki?
I've never used the 50z, but the Iwaki's are fairly quiet. Performance should be almost identical.

[EnJoY]

Cool. Do two 50z's or single 50z's typically have short lifespans for some reason?

[MaxxxRacer]

nah, they are just not constructed as well as the iwakis.. iwakis are made to extreme specs for industrial and ultra long life situations for aquairums.

[EnJoY]

I kind of feel silly buying an iwaki after selling my blueline at a loss only 3 months ago. :/

[EnJoY]

Do you just leave your iwaki plugged into your powerstrip or whatever 24/7, or do you use a relay switch to the psu?

[MaxxxRacer]

its on powerstrip, but so is the comp.. i turn off the powestrip when i turn off comp.. i put it under my desk so i just hit the switch with my foot.. I had a relay from criticool but it fried my entire computer so i wont use them anymore.

so the pump turns off and on with the system.. i turn on the power strip and the mobo turns on and boots up.. kinda wierd that the a64's do that..

and hey man iwakis rock. it will be easier to setup than the 50z's too. the 50zs are great but its a pain to have 2 pumps.. just ask nicksub with his 3 d4's.well now he is rd30ing it but he used to have 3 d4's in series.

[EnJoY]

Where would you suggest placing it in my stacker? Can I spray paint it black safely?

[nikhsub1]

Where would you suggest placing it in my stacker? Can I spray paint it black safely?
I dont see why not, but you will add to heat insulation that way. I think the puke green is actually cool looking, but that is just me. The MD Iwakis get VERY hot to the touch but are supposed to.

[Ancient_1]

And I would worry about warranty issues with it painted if ever needed.

[EnJoY]

Alright, well I wanna order right now but Im gonna wait to hear from Maxxxracer about the availability of the RD 20 pump from the links I sent him.

[MaxxxRacer]

lol too lazy to call you lazy bastard...

[EnJoY]

I actually am at college with a broken cell phone and no room phone. So hence I'll be waiting for your reply tomorrow if I can't get the chance to borrow a phone from someone else.

[MaxxxRacer]

oh ic.. never mind about the lazy comment... it still stands if you got drunk and sat on it or something...

[nikhsub1]

First link, Ryan Herco is:
RD-5: $192
RD-20: $ 250
RD-30: $ 275

oberread.com
RD-5: $150
RD-5H $195
RD-20: $250
RD-30: $275

Not cheap. ebay, there is no substitute.

[MaxxxRacer]

well nvm then.. guess i dont need to call...

I just :banana::banana::banana::banana: myself when i saw those prices.... ebay seems like the way to go on this.. like 1/3 the price.

[Ancient_1]

About what I expected. Would guess the PanWorld pump I was lookin at is in the same range also.

[Torin]

Man niksub1, you got really damn lucky finding RD-30s for $100 each. :slobber:

[EnJoY]

I guess I'll be going with a WMD20 RZT...the MD is just too much money for me right now, so the WMD will have to do. The american version doesn't run appreciably warmer or louder does it?

[nikhsub1]

I guess I'll be going with a WMD20 RZT...the MD is just too much money for me right now, so the WMD will have to do. The american version doesn't run appreciably warmer or louder does it?
Yes it does acutally. The Japanese motor is far superior. The WMD is still a good pump, but if you are going to take that leap, why not save up an extra $40 - $50 and get the good one? My .02

[EnJoY]

Your right and hence I've decided to get the japanese motored version as I've decided to get a 17" LCD rather than a 19" which puts an extra $150 bucks back in my spending pocket.

[nikhsub1]

The RZ20 is a damn good pump, don't feel like you are missing out on the RD series... the only better thing I like about the RD is that they are much smaller. You need a dedicated 24v PSU for it too.

[EnJoY]

Yea, the size is really what I want...it's like perfect.

[MaxxxRacer]

nick dont be bashing the wmds.. the japs are better motors but the diff is not that big... my wmd is very quiet. As for heat issues I cant be certain about that...

I think when I get some money I will buy the jap version just to test the two to see the difference.. Then sell the wmd on ebay i guess.

[qri]

I want to buy a water cooler for my PC and I'm almost sure it will be aquarius 3. Has anbody got it and could tell me how it is doing it's job?

[EnJoY]

Not very well, it really sucks to be honest. You'd be much better off with a kit from Swiftech or Asetek...prefferably the former.

[nikhsub1]

nick dont be bashing the wmds.. the japs are better motors but the diff is not that big... my wmd is very quiet. As for heat issues I cant be certain about that...

I think when I get some money I will buy the jap version just to test the two to see the difference.. Then sell the wmd on ebay i guess.
Maxx I'm not bashing the WMD, I merely stated the Japanese motors are superior which is a fact. If you have a WMD is it worth the expense to get an MD? Probably not, however, if you are going to spend $110+ on a pump, why not get the IMO more desireable model?

[MaxxxRacer]

gri, dont bother with the aquarius, the swiftech or danger den kits are much better.

[amduser]

ever thought about a Laing DDC-PRO :stick: . silent and powerfull.

[fareastgq]

I just wanted to note that the mag 3 is getting kind of a bad rap in this thread, having one myself, for @ 2 yrs now with 0 problems, I really have to say the mag 3 is the best price/performance leader. @ 44 bucks for 10 ft of head, with a little prep this pump is great, all I used on my pump was a bit of teflon tape and plastic/nylon fittings. Not putting you down or anything Maxxx, just giving you my personal experience. You said you've heard all this on those pumps, naturally you'll prob never hear the good things as much as the bad, I'm just letting ppl know that these pumps kick ass ;)

Also, you can find most (if not all) of the iwaki american/japanese version pumps here ---> http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/brandcategory.asp?brandID=IK&catID=wp&offset=30 :slobber:

edited for clarification : I did not mod the pump at all. the fittings I used just screwed into the pump.

[MaxxxRacer]

fareast, already got the link.

I know a number of people who have had good luck with them. but with the number of peoploe wo have them compared to the number of failures i have seen I cannot justify reccomending the pump. As you said it requires modification to make the pump safe to use...
b

but i do agree that the pump is a good price to performance leader.. But it comes at a cost.

[jnr4817]

i really have no limit as far as money goes. so what can i get to cool my system.
p4 3.2e oc @ 3.8
gig ram
2 raptors
6800ultra oc

i have a large case. i know nothing of water cooling. i have a modded koolance-al that i love but i want to break 4.0. so what should i get.

i have been hearing Iwaki pumps or danger denpumps are the way to go. also what radiator or heatcore and why is one better than the other. what kind of resevoir is needed. also will the pump hook up directly to the psu or do i need i voltage converter.

[Vandread]

Something like ultimate water cpu cooling (nikhsub1 style ;))
cpu- Storm G5
pump- Iwaki RD-30
tygon hose
biggi aircooler on your chipset
And a big heatercore (bigger is beter) something like the Dangerden HC because it doenst restrict flow to much.

Or just buy a prommie...

[MaxxxRacer]

jnr, can you plese make a new thread. I would like to keep this thread strictly to pump discussion. Heck, I will make one for you.

[jnr4817]

ok sry.

[marky]

if i were making a build right now, i would go with a swiffy mcp.

expensive, yes. 12v though, easier to deal with than AC. good performance with a variety of blocks.

honestly for anyone thinking of buying, yes the iwakis are one of the best pumps, but honestly, you will not notice any real difference if your system isn't overly restrictive. nor, from all my experience with watercooling (about 3.5 years) will the 3 - 5 degree difference you will get with the best pump and "best" block, vs. the midrange pump and decent block make any difference to your OC.

i have owed this eheim 1250 for over 3 years now, and i have used a dtek tc4, white water, tdx, and now swiffy 6002 on it without any troubles.

these people saying that they load at 2 degrees above ambient - don't believe it at all.

i'm not saying that you shouldn't spend 150$ US on a pump, or buy one of the limited quantity waterblocks, but evaluate if that money can be better spent on another component, or something else all together.

buy what you can afford, and don't get caught chasing diminishing returns. other than that, take the plunge, you won't regret it! just make sure to leak test!

:toast:

[MaxxxRacer]

marky, not to be rude, but I already put that the mcp600 is the top rated pump for watercooing if your not going for the iwakis.

[marky]

and i agreed ;)

i was simply adding my experiences with WC over the last couple of years. glad you like the iwaki, i plan to use one if i get around to building an extrenal rad/fan/pump box - but to have the bare pump on the floor is kinda ghetto. :p:

[MaxxxRacer]

ghetto is good. besides it shortens up the tubing a bit...

if you can afford it ge the RD30 and a 24volt psu.. it will cost about 400 for the combo but its sweet.

[Judaeus Apella]

Don't these marine pumps make a lot of noise? My grandfather used one sometimes, and that thing was loud as hell and yes, it was electric.

[MaxxxRacer]

nah i cant even tell mine is on and i am supposed to have a noiser one.

[Judaeus Apella]

The lowest the iwaki pumps go is 3/4" but the radiators and water blocks Im looking at only go up to 1/2".... What do you guys suggest, just changing the fitting on the pump with a 1/2" adaptor or would that scew something up?

[jnr4817]

why is the mcp600 better than the mcp650?
since the 650 is newer and offers refinment why not go for it.

also the bluline pumps come in 3 series. hd, ns, and velocity.
website http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/index.html

which would be better. the claim to be just as good as iwaki. so hard to figure out what pump to get.

i want a good pump but dont wanna have to run 2 mcp650 in series to get a compareble flow that one iwaki/blueline can have.

seems that most people go with the iwaki 20 series, why not higher and get the 30 or 40 series.

[MaxxxRacer]

the 650 is a totaly different pump. Not even close to the same manufacturer. The 600 offers more head pressure and less heat, therefore making it a better choice.

the 650 offers realy no refinement over the 600. As i said its a pump from a totaly differnet company. Swiftech has no input on the pumps design, they are just a distributer who slaps their label on it. Danger den does the same thing with the 650 and 340. AKA the D4 and the DDC (their actual names)


Judaeus Apella: You can get adapters from 3/4 to 1/2inch but I dont suggest it. I did it and it makes the pump alot bigger. I am going to go to lowes tommorow possibly and get some new 3/4inch fittings and just stretch the tubing over the barbs. I suggest you do the same. Just get the tubing warm with hot water and it will slide over the barbs nicely.

[Ancient_1]

Here (http://www.systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-03.html) is a mod done to a Laing DDC qhich I believe could make it almost the perfect pump for watercooling PCs. In a loop the modded DDC would have more flow than a D4 dump about the same heat as a AQX 50Z and be virtually silent. Two in series would have both more head and flow than a MD 20RZ with less than half the heat.

I think in the next couple weeks I might have to pick a couple up. Only downside I see is a voided warranty, wont be my 1st.

[FLYING FALCON]

well i will tell
im runnin a mcp 650 and it rocks, it moves 315 gallons an hour
i went from a constant 45c - 48c
now with the pump outside the case and case wide open
my p4 3.4 800fsb 512 cache is idling @ 25c to 27c
i think b 4 i added 6 fans around the open case
it would idle at 28c i couldnt believe it

so b 4 i added pump i could only get up to 221fsb x 17 multiplyer
which would put the cpu @ around 3.75ghz somethin lik that
now im runnin round 231fsb x 17 or 3.92ghz
it varies cuz this thing also auto moves
i have come outta a game n have seen it as high as 4.15ghz

i have a water block here monday 1-31-05 for the intel mb chip

we see if that improves systems temp, its @ 23c - 25c

[FLYING FALCON]

i have a swiftech 650 and it rocks dude
check out my message reply to this issue

[MaxxxRacer]

ancient, I just checked out that review. Thankfully the author made the sencond test setup. I had asked him to make a more current one as i really love his reviews, just that the test rig was outdated..

the ddc seems to be the pump to beat when modified. They would be very comparable to a MD20Z when modified and in series.. I just wish that they were 1/2inch on the outlet too.. that would make it alot better.. I wonder if there is a way to mod it there too.

[Ancient_1]

You wouldnt really see any performance increase by putting a 1/2 outlet other than making it compatible with 1/2" systems. Its pretty easy to just slip a small piece of 3/8 x 1/2 tubing over the outlet before you install the 1/2" over the top of it and clamp as normal.

[Judaeus Apella]

What about the Hydor Seltz L35? Does this pump generate much heat?

[jinu117]

I can heartly recommend MCP600 as well. On my waterloop, it can keep water temp only @ 2c above ambient priming 2.94ghz 1.73-1.76v on FX-55. (MCW-6002 A64, Weapon heatercore in 1/2" ID loop) That is with fan running @ 7v :) Wish I had way to measure CPU temp but I am happy.
MCP350 seems to do good job as well which is on my video card loop with silverprop Fusion HL keeping video card cool (still haven't don't volt modding with heavy overclock to quantify yet but 550/560 XT with stock volt is only 10c over ambient on video temp with MCR-80 dual radiator :))
Truely amazing is it's size. It is just a little bigger than Maze4 GPU block!!!!
I can heartly recommend either one to anyone jumping into H2O depending on your preference. (space constraint is not the big problem anymore with either of these)

[Judaeus Apella]

What about the Hydor Seltz L35? Does this pump generate much heat?


Anyone know?

[Ancient_1]

I would guess in the 12~15w range.

[MaxxxRacer]

u sure its that low?

[Judaeus Apella]

Thats its wattage right? So what does that mean?

[MaxxxRacer]

wattage is amps times volts.. 15 watts is quite low for a pump. .the lowest i know is the mcp600 with 7 watts of disipation. My iwaki puts about 30watts into the water supposedly.

Please note that teh wattage consumption is not the same as the wattage going into the water.. not all of the heat is put into the water.

[Judaeus Apella]

So is 12-15W good, so-so, or not good enough for overclocking?

[MaxxxRacer]

12-15 watts is good.. its very low wattage.. which is good.

[Ancient_1]

It isnt really good as far as to how much it adds for the performance. That puts it about the same as a D4 and close to double the MCP600/AQX50Z both of which will out perform it, and more than a Eheim 1250 which has about the same performance.

[MaxxxRacer]

lol i guess my perspective is a bit off... lol.. im so used to my iwaki..

[HiJon89]

Which of these will provide the best performance in a very small loop just for video card. It will go with a HeaterCore, MCW50-T, and Tygon 1/2" ID tubing.
The MCP600, MCP650, Laing D4, or an Eheim 1250?

[MaxxxRacer]

mcp600 as the heat dump will be the least and it has high flow. btw mcp650 and D4 are the same pump.

[Lufusol]

Well.. 8 pages later and screw the quotes...

Nobody addressed the question of Little Giants, so I'll sum it up:
WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/pumps.html

The original Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One is NOT even close to the same thing as the new Pentair Aquatics Lifeguard Quiet One. The originals have great specs and are goddamn silent. They used to be inexpensive. I just lost another bidding war on ebay and the RAINBOW lifeguard quiet one went for almost $100 shipped. :( I have a few friends at other forums who are absolutely in love with their original Quiet Ones.

Since I can't get my hands on one, for now I'll be using a couple Via Aqua 1800s in series. I don't believe these are the crappy pumps every Iwaki owner will insist they are (Iwakis are great pumps, not only do they pump water but are also great at pumping cash from your wallet) :D The Via Aquas are meant to be submerged for cooling. Even if you run them inline. Yet many people don't, and they still last for quite a while. Based on this I decided to be the cheap bastard that I am, and run a couple in series for a whopping total of $50, and if one fails, not a big deal. I'm also going to run them submerged in their own baths. If this thread is still kicking when my rig blows up I'll come on back and eat my words. :rolleyes:

-Luf

[MaxxxRacer]

sounds good man.

well i was about to get ready to add another pump to my listing but when youy said hte new one suck (is that what you said in not so many words?) I wont bother.

[shadowing]

MaxxxRacer, which of the Iwaki's will give good performance while managing to fit in the case?

[jnr4817]

what will be better for a weapon heatcore and shroud, 1/2'' tygon, tdk block, swiftech res.

50z, mcp650, or should i go for a iwaki or blueline. i pefer the smaller 12v dc pumps though. if i use the 50z or 650 will i have bad performance because its a smaller pump or can they hold thier own.

it iwll be 5/8od 1/2id system

[arDAWG65]

I recently ebayed an original Rainbow Lifeguard Quite One pump & I must say it is very impressive (1140gph at 0 feet). Weapon hooked it up in his kitchen sink & the flow is like a friggen' garden hose---could even hold my thumb over the end & do the high pressure spray thingy. I replaced a Lifetech pump in my 2 room watercooling system & my cpu temp (according to socket sensor---8rda+) dropped 2C. This is w/ a rather poor choice for blocks to use w/ this pump as well (Maze 2-2). I plan on upgrading soon to a Swifty 6002 & prolly add a 2nd WeaponCore (since I get the friend's and family discount, ;) ).

[yasoumalaka]

To be fair to the L30. I would like to say that I've used one for a little over a year and had no problems. Also I'm using it with the Black I ce Extreme Pro II. The cooling isn't bad 45c is what it runs at under load now it was up to 50c when I just had fans pushing on the rad. Now I have a L35 its also a good pump so far, but Id say it creates more heat.To give you an idea I put it in a open loop with no rad and after a few hours the water was about 85-90 farenheight. I am trying to lower temps right now so I'm going to reconfigure my cooling system. Going to try rad before and after pump among other things. After I reach optimal performance for these components I'll report back. Then I might try one of the other pumps discussed in this forum. I bought mine when I didn't know jack. Peace

[MaxxxRacer]

jnr, stick with the 50Z. the iwakis are great, but if your looking for something that will fit nicely in your case and be easy to work with the iwaki is not that... lol.. its an amazing piece of gear but it makes working on ur comp alot more dificult.

[yasoumalaka]

Does anybody know of the consequences of hooking up two pumps(L30 and L35) in series, with different flow rates? Good or Bad?

[Brandon_Tyler]

Question how does double the pumps double the head? If they are in series? I can see where you could enhance flow with double pumps and a few wye's.


-Brandon

[MaxxxRacer]

yasou, it will double the head. it will work just fine afaik. it will help out quite a bit i thinjk as the l30 and 35 are low head pumps

brandon, in series it doesnt increase max flow, but doubles the pressure. not sure how exactly to explain the way it works though. double pressure = double head. the first pump gives backpressure on teh second pump which helps the second pump perform better. thats one way of looking at it. so instead of having negative ressure around the pump inlet it has high positive pressure. i hope that makes sense.

if you put them in parallel it doubles the max flow but leaves head pressure the same.

think of it this way.. you have two cars... with two cars each of which are 200hp you can cary 2X amount of weight combined between th