Thinking of upgrading to TEC

[TyphooN]

I am thinking of upgrading to TEC. I really like my watercooling temps, and was wondering how easy it would be to upgrade to tec. I know that you need a cold plate, condensation proofing, and the tec unit. I have a Whitewater CPU Block, and a Silverprop Fusion HL GPU Waterblock. Can either of the blocks be used with tec? Where can I buy coldplates from, or do I have to make one myself?

[Karnivore]

I'm sure it could be done, but you would need to make, or have someone else make up cold plates, insulating layers. Soundsl like you probably know already but all TEC, or no TEC, is best.

I don't see mention of your radiator, pump, fan/s, etc.. That also makes a difference on recomendations.

Unfortunately while you have some very nice waterblocks for ambient cooling, they are probably not very good choices to convert to TEC usage.

If it were my system I would probably consider picking up a small cheap AC unit and make a chiller, a bit more work insulating, but probably overall easier.

I'm sure a few others will step in with there opinions.

[TyphooN]

Why would they not be good choices to convert to TEC? The pump I am using is Danner Mag3, Radiator - Dual Heatercore from Dangerden.com, and 2xEvercool 120mm's, 80CFM, I am probably getting some Enermax 93CFM fans. I don't want to make a chiller because I want something that will stay in my case, a chiller is not very portable. Here are some pics of my setup.

http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w01.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w02.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w03.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w04.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w05.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w06.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w07.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w08.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w09.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/w10.jpg

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by TyphooN
Why would they not be good choices to convert to TEC?


The rest of your system should be fine for it...


Why aren't they good choices..

LRWW is difficult to insulate, you'll need fabricate, or have a cold plate fabricated, a restrictive block isn't the best for TEC use.

also is the WW block 40mm wide? (not sure on that)

as for the Fusion, not really sure about it, haven't had one, but again, at the least you'll need to make sure it has a 40mm footprint, and have a coldplate fabricated.

Now I'm not saying it can't be done, or it won't work, just they aren't the best choices for TEC blocks.

[TyphooN]

Alright, thanks for your input. The silverprop i thought was supposed to be a very unrestrictive block. I thought the same about the whitewater, but i guess not. Which blocks do you think would be easy to switch over to TEC? I just wish that it was easy to get a coldplate made and insulation =/. Are there any stores that sell coldplates? I know that dangerden sells the tec units, which is why I was wondering so much about this. Maybe sometime down the road in the future I will get some new blocks for this, I just wish I could use these, it would be so much easier.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by TyphooN
Alright, thanks for your input. The silverprop i thought was supposed to be a very unrestrictive block. I thought the same about the whitewater, but i guess not. Which blocks do you think would be easy to switch over to TEC? I just wish that it was easy to get a coldplate made and insulation =/. Are there any stores that sell coldplates? I know that dangerden sells the tec units, which is why I was wondering so much about this. Maybe sometime down the road in the future I will get some new blocks for this, I just wish I could use these, it would be so much easier.

Fusion probably isn't bad, have heard its compareably free flowing, and the WW would work, its just a fairly restrictive block, don't let my comments discourage you, wait for some other opinions, I'm just saying they aren't ideal...

A coldplate is just simply a piece of 1/4 (around) thick copper plate with holes drilled to mount your particular block. Insulation you can buy at a local home/hardware supply place. www.onlinemetals.com is one place you could by copper plate. Ebay is great place to by the TECS, they are much cheaper than any of the Specialty places...

Again, I didn't mean to discourage you, If you look in the forsale area I think there is a Swiftech MCW462UHT TEC block there for a very reasonable price, its a great free-flowing block, comes with the TEC, coldplate, and insulation.. think he wanted less than $50 for it... Don't forget even after the blocks are ready to go, you still need to consider Power requirements....

[freecableguy]

Easiest way to go TEC is buy a pre-insultated Swiftech block. I would think about doing your own insulation with a custom block after you have some TEC experience first.

[TyphooN]

Alright, I guess I will wait until I have the money to buy the power supply(thinking about a meanwell), and just buy the swiftech blocks. How hard would it be to machine the coldplate though, it doesn't sound all that bad to me. I guess I am not a TEC expert though so I shouldn't try it.

[Karnivore]

I would agree with FreeCableGuy, but if you take your time, research, and make sure everything is clear there is no reason not to DIY, on the other hand Swifty makes nice TEC kits...


The cold plates wouldn't be difficult, FrozenCPU has some precut, I think 40mm, for $3.50 you would need a drill and a couple bits to finish it off.

[Jade]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=126143

Check out all of the sotres listed. I saw a few different kinds of coldplates on various sites....one was even pure silver :)

I would have to agree with freecableguy though. Swiftech has invested A LOT of money on R&D for TEC cooling. They pass that expertise into their product. The blocks are made JUST for TEC cooling. For example, the mcw-50t (TEC gpu block) is made so that water passes directly over the TEC unit, which is a far more efficient method than simply slapping a TEC unit onto the block like the maze gpu block does. If you really want reliable TEC cooling sell the blocks you have now and get some swifty stuff. Plus insulating with them will be 10x easier.

[TyphooN]

Alright, thanks jade. When I have the money for the meanwell power supply I will try and sell these blocks, for the meantime they will serve me well :). It's just that now that I have these blocks I understand how awsome the water cools, and want to take some more advantage of it :0

[saaya]

hmmmm your blocks are really really nice!

id recommend you to keep them and build a waterchiller :)

that way you can keep the blocks and they will serve you even better! you can use a tec chiller or a phase change chiller, whatever you prefer.

the only draw back is that you would have to insulate all blocks and hoses.

and if you build a tec chiller you will need something to cool the tecs. if you want to build a tec chiller i would recommend you to use several small wattage tecs, that way you can power them with regular cheap psus you get on ebay for 10$, and you can air cool the tecs with onld cpu heatsinks you have or get cheap on ebay as well (35/55W tecs would be best)

if you dont want to spend time on building a chiller get a chiller block from swiftech+ a heatercore and pump for the tec cooling loop, OR what most people do and costs less and is less work, get a compressor somehwere. an old air conditioner or drinkwater cooler or old freeyer are fine, some shops even sell cheap air conditioner units that are great for chilling the water.

[Jade]

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=APPL&pid=04274054000

Only 80 bucks :)

[saaya]

wow thats nice!

i dont know how strong it is though. to reach a lower water temp than you have now it has to be able to remove your cpu and gpu watts+x
the higher x the lower the water temp

[Andrew]

TyphooN,
The reason for not using a WW, or other such water block for TEC cooling is that it is not designed for it. WW, RBX and the like are designed for cooling a very small area (the chip), and do it very well.

In using TECs you are now trying to cool the entire TEC surface. A Maze4, or DTek Spiral will cool a much larger area which you need for TECs.

Hope that clears things up.

[TyphooN]

The reason I do not want a chiller is because it will not fit in my case. I think I will just get some swiftech blocks when I can, and sell these blocks, I go to lans a lot lol.

[saaya]

then dont forget, you will need as much surface to dissipate the heat as possible when going tec.

id recommend you to get 2 heatercores, or one really big one (tripple 120mm rad/heatercore would be perfect as it fits just on the top of the case)

[TyphooN]

Where can I get a triple 120 heatercore? The biggest I have found is a dual, from dangerden, which is what I have. I wouldn't mind going ahead and upgrading ;D.

[Jade]

http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/thermochill.asp

Right under your nose the whole time :)

But 120 bucks is damn pricey. I would just get another dual heatcore or single heatercore and run 2 loops. One for the gpu, and one for the cpu. That should give you better temps.

[TyphooN]

That isn't a heatercore, I want a heatercore because they are way less restrictive and a whole lot cheaper than a regular radiator. I don't think I have enough room in my case for 2 loops, I would rather just run one.

[Jade]

I highly doubt you will ever be able to fit all of the hardware for TEC cooling within a single mid-tower. You will have to add one if not two more powersupplies for the TECs, and a single massive radiator, or heatercore....

Another problem is that with a single loop the water will be really hot by the time it reaches the second block and that will yield poor performance for the second TEC.

You seem to want every benifit of sub-ambient cooling, yet none of the drawbacks.

[TyphooN]

My case is a Thermaltake Xaser III(is that considered a mid-tower?), 2+ psu's, I thought that 1 meanwell would be enough, and I don't have a problem adding that. I thought that a lot of people just used a dual heatercore to cool it. If there is a triple heatercore then I would buy it, but the $125 triple radiator is more restrictive and is very expensive. I have nowhere to mod a 2nd dual heatercore, I thought that it would be good enough for 2 blocks.

[saaya]

hmmm cant help you where to find that stuff in the states, i bought a dual 120mm heatercore out of pure massive copper, with thick fins, very un restrictive, for 5$ on german ebay here :D

dunno, try ebay...

a psu that can power two 227W tecs will be expensive. check if you can find a server psu, might be cheaper than a meanwell or lookalike but larger. you will need at least 36ampere on the 12v rail. id recommend 45a, but 40 should be enough.

you should be able to fit it all in your case without any probs if you ask me.

[TyphooN]

I have a dual 120mm heatercore, i'm not sure if its copper or brass, but the performance is good, i got it from dangerden. How do I know if it is copper or brass? It is very unrestrictive. If I went tec I wasn't planning on upgrading my radiator, but a triple heatercore was mentioned, I haven't ever seen one of them myself. Does anyone know if there are any triple heatercores, or what material the DangerDen double heatercore is made out of? Is there any way for me to figure this out myself? I want a 227W CPU block, and a 172W GPU Block(modded swiftech block tec upgrade). How many amps will I need for this? Are there any psus that come with 40amps, or will i need to buy 2(i want meanwell because it can fit in my drive bay).

[Jade]

You can find a lot of those answers with the search button :)

[TyphooN]

=/

[saaya]

dd and swiftech should have the infos about how many amps you need for what tec.

my 227w tec is rated to 15v x 15a, but its a REAL 227W tec, its 50x50mm. afaikmthere are no real 227w tecs in 40x40mm, those are like "overclocked" 170W tecs, they perform better than 170W tecs, but not much. and to find out what your rad is made of just scratch the paint off on some part and see if its copper or not...

dd should aslo have the info about that.

more questions? :D

[TyphooN]

dd doesnt say it on their website, it doesnt really seem to be painted, ill scan it for you in the morning, going to bed now.

[TyphooN]

I just scanned these 2 pictures of my heatercore:
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/heater_core1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~typhoon007/heater_core2.jpg

The heatercore isn't all that heavy, so I am thinking it isn't copper, but it could possibly be. I am thinking it is brass.. or aluminum, I really hope its brass because if it's aluminum when I change my liquid to distilled water + bleach it might corrode. I know from the head on view of the core you can't tell, but when I look into it at an angle, I can see some golden looking color, past the gray(starts where it is on the side, the color goes gray accordingly to where it looks golden on the inside also). Is there any other way to know what material it is? I hope someone who reads this knows what it is.

[yaboc]

it's a Balkamp Heater Core. i don't know what material it is made from. but you can call napaonline.com and they'll tell you. if you call em post back and let us know. i have the same one in my loop.

[TyphooN]

hrmm never heard of a balkamp, when i looked at Weapon's mine looks just like his 77 bonneville, so i'm not sure if its a bonneville or the balkamp u say, I just hope it isn't aluminum, I just don't want corrosion, the performance is great, just now deciding if i should change to distilled water + bleech or not.

[saaya]

i think its copper+brass

[TyphooN]

OK well do you think this heatercore would do fine if i use distilled water + bleach, instead of using 10% antifreeze(anticorrosive), which is what I was using. I was also wondering if the heatercore will be able to keep up with a 226w cpu pelt, and 80w gpu pelt(both swiftech's), there are a lot of people on here who are running both on the same psu as mine, so I am pretty sure mine can keep up with the load.

[TyphooN]

i was also wondering, since the swiftech blocks have anodized aluminum, will I need to use the antifreeze or not???

[saaya]

anodized means a few atomics thick layer of protection above the alu, its perfectly sealed, so you dont need any additives.

and since dd sells the rads with their blocks id be very surprised if they would use alu without warning people about it.

its probably copper or copper+brass.

and about the tec... if the 12v rail drops too much i would rather use a different psu for the 80W tec. just a get a cheap 300W+ psu from ebay.

the heatercore will def keep up with the 226w tec and the 8-w tec and the gpu and cpu heat, BUT i really dont think you will get nice temps with it. i would get a second rad, maybe a d/tek radiator and mount it on the drive bay in the front of the case?

[TyphooN]

Well at the moment I am mounting my dual heatercore inside, only the fans will be outside. I guess I won't upgrade to tec if i wont be getting nice tecs, maybe I can find somewhere to put a single heatercore at, why wouldn't i be getting nice temps?

[TyphooN]

Oh yeah, I also heard that just having an 80w tec on the gpu won't make my water temp rise but about 2c, will that help my gpu at all though??

[Jade]

A dual heatercore will never be able to handle two tecs and the heat of both your cpu/gpu. Your temps will be horrible. Either get two dual heatercores in serier or a dual/single config. I would go for the twin dual heatercores though.

EDIT:

Also, there is no point in TEC cooling your gpu with an 80watt pelt. I would go for the 172watt swap or nothing at all.

[TyphooN]

Well I would most likely swap it out, but that would be when I could afford a dedicated psu. I don't think I can fit 2 dual heatercore's in my case. The only way is if i sort of stacked them, but I don't know if the airflow would be good enough, if I had a push/pull config on with the cores stacked. What do you think?

[saaya]

put one on top of the case, and one on the back of the case, should work fine.

well for example, my system produces around 150W of heat.
around 100W for my cpu and around 50W for my gpu.

if i would mount a 227W tec on my cpu, and a 172W tec on my gpu my system would rpdouce a total amount of heat wich would be around 640W.

so think of the temps you get now whileyour system is producing around 150W, and then think what temps you would probably get with 640W of heat load ;) :D

[TyphooN]

OK, I get it now, i don't think I can mount a dual heatercore on the back of my case, maybe a single. I guess I won't be going tec anytime soon, unless I can get a really big case, I don't think mine will be big enough for 2 dual heatercores and an extra power supply.

[saaya]

well just build a fake prommie case like other people have done before you :D

just build it with wood, its cheap and easy, and when you paint it you wont see the dfference :)

[TyphooN]

Alright, I will think about it later, thx for the idea :)

[saaya]

ask afireinside if you want to build it, i think he built something like that once.

[TyphooN]

Alright, well if I do it will be in distant future.. maybe next summer lol, I just thought maybe upgrading to those 2 blocks would make my temps better but u guys said it wouldnt =/

[saaya]

well not with that radiator.. sorry :(

hmmm if you really want lower temps without may changes you should just get a ac unit for 100-200$ and use it to chill your water...

[TyphooN]

If I were to build a fake prommie box, would I be able to fit all of the chiller stuff in it? What exactly from an AC unit would I have to use to chill the water, the whole AC unit or just certain parts of it? It would be great if I could fit it in my case somehow.

[Jade]

Your never going to fit a chiller inside your mid-tower....and I doubt it will ever be very portable.

You could always get a cheap AC unit and simple have it blow cold air over the radiator. I am not sure how well that would work, but then if you wanted to take your comp to a LAN party it would be no problem except that your radiator would not have chilled air running over it.

[saaya]

if you build a fake prommie box it will be able to hold the compressor just fine.

either find a way to fasten the fake prommie case to your case or build it so you can split it in two units again.

then you can decide if you want to take both boxes to the lan or maybe just the case and leave the "chiller station" at home :D