Well its not 3Dmark...

[JCviggen]

but here's a first place for XtremeSystems :D

http://users.pandora.be/JCviggen/PCM.JPG

3833 MHz P4 2.80 w/o heatspreader. "borrowed" CPU from the guy who can break literally everything, even P4 heatspreaders, ctgilles.

Here's how high it loads windows... if I had 0.025V extra on this IT7 ... that would be 4 GHz on phase change...

http://users.pandora.be/JCviggen/3980.JPG

[majormav]

WOW

[Chong345]

JC,
Thats supa dupa fast. :toast: :toast: Very nice score. What would happen if the heatspreader was still on there? I don't understand why it is off, lol.

Chong

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Chong345
JC,
Thats supa dupa fast. :toast: :toast: Very nice score. What would happen if the heatspreader was still on there? I don't understand why it is off, lol.

Chong


it accidentally came off with my friend, god knows how he managed it ;)
It has to be said though, that his CPU was always a lot better than mine even with the heatspreader :(

[Chong345]

My 2.8 is weak at the moment. Its a Malay and at 1.7V it maxes out at around 3.58 GHz. Any more voltage doesn't help. Temps are around -12C to -15C at idle. Think it might just like a prometeia?

Chong

[JCviggen]

Weak??? thats pretty awesome i'd think ;)

I can only run PCMark at 3833 too at 1.74 in the prometeia and this is a great chip...

edit : damn you changed 3.80 into 3.58 ;)

[Chong345]

OOPs! was missing a number there. 3.58 GHz (stable). This is dissapointing considering it was doing 3.51Ghz at almost stock voltage. :(

It started off very strong then bam. Nothing more. I don't know whats up. whats even worse is the memory could use the extra FSB as I know it will run it but the chip isn't willing.

Chong

[MrIcee]

JC:)

Just an incredible showing and effort my friend:toast: Congrats on an extraordinary benching effort and for putting our site/team at the top of the game once again...kudo's !!!

Randi:D

[OPPAINTER]

Wow JC, thats a killer chip there, I wonder what it did with the heatspreader. Could be the hot idem, trying to remove the thing:D

Keep it up JC!!

OPP

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Wow JC, thats a killer chip there, I wonder what it did with the heatspreader. Could be the hot idem, trying to remove the thing:D

Keep it up JC!!

OPP

thanks m8 :)

the chip did about 70-80 MHz more than mine with the heatspreader on... since I am struggling to get good contact without the HS, I dont think I am getting better results now than with the HS on. But it could definately give about 40-50 MHz increase with good contact I think.

I had to remove the 4 little taps on the prometeia's CPU kit but its still a tight fit and not optimal contact :(

I went for the 4G screenshot but a very very small lack of voltage saw that endeavour fail on the finish line ... but i'm not going to bother vmodding this board just for another 20 MHz on an unstable screenshot ;)

In the 3Dmark department things are still not well, I need more than 232 on the memory but the IT7's are not letting me :(
And we can all see what DJ's rig is doing...

[OPPAINTER]

JC,

Looks like BJ took the lead, you'll have to take him down my man.

Or you could send me that fine chip:D

OPP

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
JC,

Looks like BJ took the lead, you'll have to take him down my man.

Or you could send me that fine chip:D

OPP

yeah I noticed it as well this morning... he's doing 180 3:4 for christ sake what can I do against that with my IT7's crapping out below or just after 230 mem..... I can beat his current score with the better radeon, but he can get a better card and increase hundreds of points... need to solve the mobo bottleneck to kick his ass...

about the chip ; its not even mine, sadly

[DDTUNG]

Is BJ someone I know?:D

DDTUNG:cool:

JC- You've got PM.

[Raptor]

yep, DJ, not BJ, has the fastest Non LN2 system on the orb... Way to go DJ M8!!!

JC, that's one hell of a PCmark system! Way to go! :toast:

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Raptor
yep, DJ, not BJ,

our mistake :D

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by DDTUNG
Is BJ someone I know?:D

DDTUNG:cool:

JC- You've got PM.

Yep :D

A little side name I gave the guy, it stands for Blow Job:D

OPP

[Chong345]

LMAO. Go get him JC!

Chong

[DDTUNG]

That's what I thought.:D

DDTUNG:cool:

[MrIcee]

A thought from your Captain :















LMAO !!:D

Randi:D

[Raptor]

you can keep laughing, but he's still nº1 non ln2 on the orb!!!

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Raptor
you can keep laughing, but he's still nº1 non ln2 on the orb!!!

yes since this morning :rolleyes:
I didnt see you in here enthusiastic about OPP being n°1 non LN2 when we were way above him all those weeks lol... I have to say though, I might just have missed it ;)
He wont stay best non-ln2 runner thÃ:banana:t long too if we have something to do with it ;)

[majormav]

i wonder

http://discuss.madonion.com/forum/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=mo3dmark2001&Number=1101437&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Username=digitaljesus&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=3months&Main=1085110

[Raptor]

yes JC, your right, but at least OPP doesn't gets criticized by everyone like DJ is... he doesn't have a legion of fans that everytime he goes to the bathroom everyone cheers him for his going there! DJ is a great guy, althoug he's not easy one... but he should be respected for what he has done in the past with 3DMark... he's old scores on 3DMark99 and 2000 are historical to me!

[JCviggen]

You have a point there ... but OPP never got ppls score's pulled down and then came in here to prove why they were fake ... (even spreading the bold lie of the filter pulling them when that was in fact impossible which he should have known, being so "close" to MO.) while in fact they were legit and re-instated when sent to MO.
Since OPP doesnt do that, he doesnt get criticized or called an assclown ;)

[Raptor]

with that your absolutly right... he shoulnd't have done that...

but you've allways criticized him way before that... but let's stop the arguing here... he has a great score, and he's going to increase it with ln2...

and what's left for us to see is you getting that great cpu working like hell and get close to him, or eve pass him... :slash:

I love this little competition... like you said in your score, just a friendly copetition...


What we should really do is:

LETS KICK SOME JAPONESE ASS!!! :D

[JCviggen]

I wont argue that he's got a great score... I even wanted to email him a few days ago but his addy bounced so hey I tried to be a nice guy ;)

This isnt war, its just some teasing and trying to beat each other, thats all there's to it ...... DJ is just rather unpopular here, and we all need to have a laugh sometimes, nothing more to it than that

cheers

[MrIcee]

Raptor:)

I understand you're defending your friend...but the reality is his actions and his spoken word starting at Icrontic and following here, then his dispicable actions concerning JC's scores awhile ago do not set well with many folks here including myself. And this is coming from a guy who looked up to his accomplishments as a bencher for a couple years now.

Originally posted by Raptor
yes JC, your right, but at least OPP doesn't gets criticized by everyone like DJ is... he doesn't have a legion of fans that everytime he goes to the bathroom everyone cheers him for his going there! DJ is a great guy, althoug he's not easy one... but he should be respected for what he has done in the past with 3DMark... he's old scores on 3DMark99 and 2000 are historical to me!

Remember...he came to us running at the mouth, taunting and saying less than desirable things...which is very poor sportsmanship in my book. No one here had a bad word for the guy until he started his arrogant, taunting bad mouthing on the forums...starting with his exchanges with DDTUNG and culminating with the JCViggen incident. BTW..why does he still insist on disparaging our team and JCViggen in his comments??

What you read from us are reactions to his actions, not the other way around. We are a family here of exceptional technicians and benchers...and no one will sit still for his antics. I'm sorry you feel you need to defend him, but this unfortunate stuff was started and is continuing on his behalf to this day. I defend my teamates comments et al...if he wishes to not exhibit some type of sportsmanship and desires to continue with his comments and disaparaging behaviour, he is open game in our own forums for comments by those he runs his mouth about in public.

Randi:D

[Hiwayman]

This isnt war, its just some teasing and trying to beat each other, thats all there's to it ......

Well done JC:) I think that's a really mature attitude.

All you 20k+ benchers are doing a really great job!

I say that with sadness as I look at my Prometeia showing a "Er0" error, no benching for a few days I think:(

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

If I'm not mistaken (I'm not), Kyle from [H]ardOCP started everything when DJ got 10,000 in 3DMark2000 with "only" a GTS.

I know DJ personally, and have for a while. He's a very nice guy, has helped me in the past, and an awesome computer dude.

BTW, D, if you read this, I'm Mike from MadOnion.

Just my thoughts, however, I don't know if some of you have ever even talked to the guy.

[MrIcee]

Welcome to the forum Mike:)

Nice to see you stop by BTW. I have no doubts that DJ is a great guy and I know he's been a major force in the world of benchmarking. i have jad the deepest respect for his abilities and achievments.

Right now this banter between him and JC is purely busting each others chops as JC stated minutes before I posted above..I have no prob with that at all. Where I draw the line, and I don't believe you were present for his exchanges with DDTUNG..where he referred to DD as a "little man" amongst other disparaging remarks of his abilities and education.Unfortunately that thread was deleted at Icrontic and I can't point you to it. Then as stated his episode getting JC's scores pulled own. I went to lengths to help JC get his scores reinstated at the time.

He wouldn't get critisized if his words and actions didn't belittle and try to ruin other people...and JC's reputation was almost ruined over that episode.

Now maybe my views are looked at as not mature...but am I wrong here teamates in not being totally happy with his behaviour?? He may be a great guy and I'd entertain talking to him...but he has been continuing with the remarks which I personally don't care for...maybe I'm all wrong ...if I am I will resign my duties with this website immediately. Enough said....later my friends.

Randi:D

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

You make excellent points. Like someone else said too, it's part of the "game", trash talking and what not.

I'm sure neither DJ or JC truly hate each other because of 3DMarks. . .

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Qkjhfhaiguihfma


I'm sure neither DJ or JC truly hate each other because of 3DMarks. . .

Well I dont hate him but i'm not sure that feeling is mutual :D

Its hard to like someone looking at what he writes/thinks about great ppl like DDTUNG, or how he bashes me or the team for that matter simply because he doesnt like us...
He started the whole childish thing, all i'm doing is kind of playing along but up to a level, I dont want this stuff to escalate so i try to keep it to the 'teasing' level ;)

[zakelwe]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream--and not make dreams your master;
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:


If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man my son!

[D.Jesus]

You know what im getting tireed of you Mainly mr Icee of accusing me of getting jc's scored pulled!
I have the whole damn log between to MO orb guy and me.
]So i ask you to show me where i got his score pulled?
You think i have some magic power over Madonion employees or something?

THE WHOLE CHAT!


[13:23] <D> you rang?
[13:23] <ristojc> yep
[13:23] <D> hey i like the new filter:)
[13:23] <D> way to go
[13:23] <D> !
[13:23] <ristojc> have you been using 3D Analyze lately?
[13:23] <D> one step ahead of you sir
[13:23] <ristojc> did you get anything trough?
[13:23] <D> nope
[13:23] <D> and thats good
[13:23] <ristojc> great:)
[13:24] <D> how you modify the orb to do pre one though?
[13:24] <D> hehe
[13:24] <D> macci and i found another way before you guys did this though:)
[13:24] <ristojc> the problem is that we cannot find projects that have been submmitted before the patch
[13:25] <D> oh damn
[13:25] <D> i thought you coulsd
[13:25] <D> could
[13:25] <D> you tell anybody about the patch
[13:25] <ristojc> but we decided to delete all caught users projects on certain timeframe
[13:25] <D> i know sadly to say one of them i thonk was my teamate
[13:26] <D> rather sorry about that
[13:26] <ristojc> well it happens
[13:26] <ristojc> we can get them back tough
[13:26] <D> get what back
[13:26] <D> and why
[13:26] <ristojc> the disabled projects
[13:27] <D> oh you meqan if he submitted one that was acheat you took them all down?\
[13:27] <D> i mean the whole lot of his scores
[13:27] <ristojc> yep... no just on jun/july
[13:27] <D> it was hiwayman btw
[13:27] <ristojc> I know I was wondering what I should do about him
[13:28] <D> he said his 15,7xx score was legit but admitted to having a 3danalyzer non default
[13:28] <ristojc> should I give the projects back
[13:28] <D> well thats really your call\
[13:28] <ristojc> havn't made a decision yet
[13:28] <ristojc> so what is the new way you tlked about?
[13:28] <D> im surprised a couple more peops scores were not taken down though
[13:29] <D> :D
[13:29] <ristojc> Jcviggen?
[13:29] <D> i show you a pic yes
[13:29] <ristojc> yep
[13:29] <D> ok hang on
[13:31] <D> btw what macci and i use to do was just ask for there .3dp file because it would show up ass tomti systems in the full retail offline browser instead of ti4600:)
[13:32] <ristojc> come again?
[13:34] <D> if i sent you a .3dp file
[13:34] <D> and you had full version to view it
[13:34] <D> without uploading it
[13:35] <ristojc> yes
[13:35] <D> the gfx chipset would say 3danalyzer instead of ti4600
[13:35] <D> if i had used it
[13:35] <ristojc> so can you get around that?
[13:35] <D> so macci and i just use to ask for there .3dp files:)
[13:35] <ristojc> ask?
[13:36] <D> if we thought he cheated
[13:36] <D> we would ask for his .3dp
[13:36] <ristojc> so you asked 3dp files from someone
[13:36] <D> and if he did it would come up ass 3danalzer
[13:36] <ristojc> ok I see
[13:37] <D> then we emailed patric and told him about it
[13:37] <D> he said there was nothing he could do
[13:37] <D> guess he was wrong:)
[13:39] <ristojc> yep... We tought that there was nothing tohat could be done but then I made a few tests and the 3danalyze string was found but since it is sort of redundant info we do not store it
[13:41] <D> but its ok
[13:42] <D> just makes it a little more of a challenge
[13:42] <D> dont mind the car low that was a goof
[13:42] <ristojc> well currently all projects that are sent before last tuesday are under close scrutiny
[13:42] <D> i have problems with it once in awhile
[13:43] <D> i got to rebench it like 3 times to get a normalscore\
[13:43] <ristojc> ok
[13:44] <ristojc> so at least yours is run with analyze
[13:44] <D> scrutiny?
[13:44] <D> what you mean mine
[13:44] <D> you mean the one i just showed you
[13:45] <D> i dont publish any scores with 3danalyzer i just use it to compare to other peoples Silly!
[13:45] <ristojc> all older projects dating between april and june 8 are a susspect of 3danalyze use so if I find a peak in that timeframe in users projects I'll take a closer look at them
[13:46] <D> check jcviggen for me:)
[13:46] <D> im wondering if he still uses it
[13:46] <ristojc> do you have full email?
[13:46] <ristojc> or compare url
[13:47] <D> but if i can do anything to help let me know i have tested the bajesus out of all this stuff and ways around it
[13:47] <D> for jc
[13:47] <D> ?http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3817534
[13:47] <ristojc> if you find any susopichious projects and could pinpoint them to me that would be extreamy good help
[13:48] <D> JCviggen@xtremesystems.org
[13:48] <D> ok will let you know sir:)
[13:48] <D> so you in charge of this now btw?
[13:49] <D> i mean filtering and stuff?
[13:51] <ristojc> well I maintain the receiver and am the only DB dude around so I guess I'm the one
[13:51] <ristojc> others do disable projects
[13:52] <D> the reason im curious about jc viggen is macci and i caught him using it
[13:53] <D> he even admitted to it in a thread over at icrhontic.com
[13:53] <ristojc> it seams that mr viggen will lose three projects...
[13:53] <D> heheheh
[13:53] <D> woopsie
[13:53] <D> Was that his his high score?
[13:53] <ristojc> you mean the 19000 one?
[13:53] <D> no the 160025
[13:54] <D> 16025
[13:54] <D> are any of his defaults tainted?
[13:55] <ristojc> there is not much to work on...
[13:55] <D> so what you do just look somewhere in the projects and it says 3danlyzer?
[13:56] <ristojc> no actually I think I was wrong to say they fake so fast
[13:56] <D> oh
[13:56] <D> whats up doc
[13:57] <ristojc> I tought that all projects were on same resolution but the wery high one is on 640 resolution
[13:57] <D> the method you use is accurate?
[13:57] <ristojc> on new projects yes on older no
[13:57] <D> aha
[13:57] <D> so the 16025 is legit
[13:57] <D> ?
[13:57] <ristojc> when user has more projects then it is easyer
[13:57] <ristojc> I'll have to dig in deeper
[13:58] <D> you mean published or just in there
[13:58] <ristojc> just in there
[13:58] <D> got ya
[13:58] <ristojc> I ususlly can see the persons whole project history
[13:58] <D> understood
[13:59] <ristojc> it's odd that mr Viggen just has those three...
[13:59] <D> indeed
[13:59] <D> usallty we all have alot yes
[13:59] <D> like 2 or 3 pages
[14:00] <ristojc> normal user has atleast 5-10
[14:00] <D> so the woohooo
[14:00] <D> thats alot
[14:00] <ristojc> people often submit fakes on an alias
[14:00] <D> good thing there only 10kb
[14:01] <D> how big is the database like 1 terrabyte
[14:01] <ristojc> no still way under 100G
[14:01] <D> damn it must be huge for 3dmark 2000 and 2001
[14:01] <D> really wow
[14:02] <ristojc> lots of lookups
[14:02] <D> but then i guess at 10kb it would take an awful lot
[14:02] <ristojc> stuff that is common in all projects like parts of sysinfo are stored in lookups
[14:02] <D> ah!
[14:03] <ristojc> so 100000 GF2:s would give 1 row
[14:03] <ristojc> or something like that
[14:03] <D> wlw
[14:03] <D> cool
[14:03] <ristojc> then the data is linked together with id numbers
[14:03] <D> 3danalyzer is the only current cheat being used yes?
[14:04] <ristojc> looks that way if you don't count the dell bug
[14:04] <D> that you are aware of anyway?
[14:04] <ristojc> yes :(
[14:04] <D> yup figured
[14:04] <D> but im sure plenty more to come:(
[14:05] <ristojc> people can be awfully creative when it comes to cheating
[14:05] <D> there was a few websites actually telling people how to do this
[14:05] <D> pissed me off
[14:05] <ristojc> you mean 3dAnalyze stuff
[14:05] <D> its hard enough to stay in the top 5 let alone d
[14:05] <D> do it against cheaters
[14:06] <D> esp if your not sure if they are or not
[14:06] <ristojc> yep
[14:07] <D> so you cant tell about jcvidggen eh
[14:07] <D> not enough info?
[14:07] <ristojc> I'll look into it this evening
[14:07] <D> cool
[14:07] <ristojc> have to see what the guys history is
[14:07] <D> im not to worried about it
[14:08] <D> oppainter is just not smart enough to try and use it
[14:08] <D> :)
[14:08] <D> thats mean but true
[14:08] <ristojc> yep
[14:09] <ristojc> some people are like that
[14:10] <D> yah but its cool
[14:10] <ristojc> so it is
[14:10] <D> he just gets lots of free stuff so its all good and understanble
[14:10] <D> try enought stuff and bound to find some good things:)
[14:11] <D> hell it took me 8 ti4600s to find one that would do 400/790
[14:11] <ristojc> something like blind chiken and a corn
[14:11] <D> and killed 4 in the process:)
[14:11] <D> yup
[14:12] <D> peltiers are evil but a a nessicity at these speeds
[14:13] <ristojc> I have a great suspichion that mr Viggen is an alias...
[14:15] <D> :)
[14:15] <D> hey wait!
[14:15] <D> i may know his other name!
[14:16] <D> durondude
[14:16] <D> oh i can go find out
[14:16] <D> if you like i know the foum he used to post at
[14:16] <D> forum
[14:16] <D> and get his old email
[14:17] <D> maybe even a link to another old project
[14:17] <D> shall i?
[14:17] <ristojc> please do
[14:17] <D> im pretty sure you are correct about the alias
[14:17] <D> ok brb

Session Start: Wed Jan 10 14:22:07 2001
[14:22] <D> sorry about that damn amd rebooting for no reason thingy
[14:22] <D> go get it now i will
[14:27] <D> http://run.to/JCviggen
[14:27] <D> i found his website:)
[14:27] <D> BUT EMAIL LINK IS DOWN BRB AGAIN
Session Close: Wed Jan 10 14:31:37 2001


Session Start: Wed Jan 10 14:31:40 2001
Chat with ristojc
Waiting for acknowledgement...

Session Start: Wed Jan 10 14:32:16 2001
[14:32] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3472301
[14:32] <D> Thats one of his old links
[14:33] <D> quote:
[14:33] <D> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[14:33] <D> Originally posted by Raptorius
[14:33] <D> Hey DJ, don't tell me that you're saying that RivaTuner, and changing Lod Bias is, for you, considered cheating?
[14:33] <D> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[14:33] <D> of course it ain't, but I did use a "controversial" tool. I could have made a 15.500+ score with it but didnt use it like that ... still, I said i'd take down the score soon and do it without it. I came close this morning but my damn car high decided to play up... will get some water cold and try again
[14:33] <D> __________________
[14:34] <D> that was jcviggens reply to my question
[14:34] <D> http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=27358
[14:34] <D> ^^ link to post
DCC Chat connection established
-
[14:38] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3577761 another one
[14:39] <D> of course it ain't, but I did use a "controversial" tool. I could have made a 15.500+ score with it but didnt use it like that ... still, I said i'd take down the score soon and do it without it. I came close this morning but my damn car high decided to play up... will get some water cold and try again
[14:39] <D> [14:33] <D> __________________
[14:39] <D> [14:34] <D> that was jcviggens reply to my question
[14:39] <D> [14:34] <D> http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=27358
[14:39] <D> [14:34] <D> ^^ link to post
[14:39] <D> [14:38] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3577761 another one
[14:39] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3472301
[14:39] <D> [14:32] <D> Thats one of his old links
[14:39] <D> both those are links to his old scores
[14:39] <D> and the thread where i caught him cheating:)
Session Close: Wed Jan 10 14:45:35 2001

[14:49] <D> hey you got icq?
[14:49] <D> 63644382
[14:49] <D> thats his #
[14:49] <ristojc> I got his history about 100 projects
[14:49] <ristojc> tha trend is pretty consistent so I would say those scores are legit
[14:50] <ristojc> or then hes a pretty good cheater
[14:51] <D> http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=27358
[14:51] <D> you read that?
[14:54] <D> its cool thanx for looking though:)
[14:54] <ristojc> what is it that I am lookin at in the discussion?
[14:56] <D> of course it ain't, but I did use a "controversial" tool. I could have made a 15.500+ score with it but didnt use it like that ... still, I said i'd take down the score soon and do it without it.
[14:56] <D> oh nothing his name is durondude
[14:57] <D> durondude=jcviggen
[14:58] <D> that thread is why i was curious because he admitted to using it
[14:58] <D> so i still wondered if he had ever stopped using it
[15:02] <ristojc> when did 3d analyze apppear do you know?
[15:02] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3577761
[15:02] <D> i know that was run using it
[15:02] <D> but its a dead link
[15:03] <D> to one of his old score
[15:03] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3472301
[15:03] <D> same with that
[15:04] <D> 3danalyzer started being used in early to mid may
[15:04] <D> but didnt go mainstream till early june
[15:04] <D> i think
[15:04] <D> right about there
[15:06] <D> Hey j.c.
[15:08] <D> I thought you also told macci you were going to remove it?
[15:08] <D> <Jc> talking- work in progress m8
[15:09] <D> <Jc> talking- Hopefully I can get a "reasonable" score in my car high today and it'll be history
[15:09] <D> what he ment will be history is his score he published using 3danalyzer
if you read above you will see he say's he used it
[15:10] <ristojc> his score jumps about 400 points on that project andkeeps increasing after that
[15:11] <ristojc> so looks quite bad...
[15:12] <D> now you see why i was curious if he was still using it
[15:12] <D> i mean he admitted to it to me and macci and said he would pull the score
[15:14] <ristojc> I'll have to sleep on this... Tomorrow I'll make a decision... Probably it goes against mr Viggen
[15:15] <ristojc> poor guy...
[15:15] <D> i know
[15:16] <D> im sorry:(
[15:16] <D> but use you best judgement
[15:18] <D> and dont listen to me do what you feel is right
[15:18] <D> same with hiway
[15:19] <D> i mean he is my teamate but if he used it so be it
[15:19] <D> he oddly enough had the same 400point jump?
[15:19] <ristojc> actually there has been discussion about him just today, what happens to him happens also tomorrow
[15:20] <D> ok
[15:20] <ristojc> well its bed time (or actually going home time) see ya tomorrow
[15:20] <D> but thats something to look for i mean unless they switched processor or went up like 20 more fsb a 400 point jump might be a flg
[15:21] <D> ciao risto thanks for all:)
[15:21] <D> sleep tight
[15:23] <ristojc> bye
Session Close: Wed Jan 10 15:28:24 2001


Session Start: Thu Jan 11 12:49:42 2001
Chat with ristojc
Waiting for acknowledgement...
DCC Chat connection established
-
[12:57] <D> hay
[12:57] <ristojc> jou
[12:58] <D> I see you ve been busy
[12:58] <D> so you think there is enough to say that hiways score is legit
[12:58] <ristojc> yep some 15 projects left the orb
[12:58] <D> you didnt pull macci s
[12:58] <ristojc> yes as far as I could determine
[12:58] <D> he did roight
[12:58] <D> right
[12:58] <D> he had 2 up there
[12:59] <ristojc> where?
[12:59] <D> in the orb
[12:59] <D> the 1.6a score of 16k and the 2.4b score of 16604
[12:59] <D> his 1.6 score is gonee noew
[12:59] <D> now
[13:00] <ristojc> haven't done anything to macci
[13:00] <D> hmm he must have taken it down
[13:00] <D> that was nice of him
[13:00] <D> no point in having 2 up i guess
[13:00] <D> i talked to hiway for along time yesterday
[13:01] <D> i believe his core now at first i had doubts
[13:01] <D> score
[13:01] <D> but he got a new cpu and new video card
[13:01] <D> fsb went up a bunch and his core did too
[13:03] <D> 15 scores man thats alot were most of them in the top 30?
[13:03] <ristojc> almost all of them were from JCViggen
[13:04] <ristojc> altough only 5 of them were published
[13:04] <D> holy molly!
[13:04] <D> jesus
[13:04] <D> badboy
[13:04] <D> i pretty much new
[13:04] <ristojc> and the brief visit of the project 'Eat this!' with 19000 points
[13:04] <D> hehe
[13:05] <D> oh the non default was bad too:)
[13:05] <ristojc> non default?
[13:05] <D> eat this haha!
[13:05] <D> whats the 19000 one?
[13:05] <D> that was a default
[13:05] <D> ?
[13:06] <ristojc> that was pretty interesting one only the resulting score was bad
[13:06] <D> interesting in a buggy way?
[13:06] <ristojc> the calculated score should havee been something like 4000
[13:06] <D> was that 3dmarks error?
[13:06] <ristojc> yes in a buggy way
[13:07] <ristojc> looked like that
[13:07] <D> the internal calculater in 3dmark goes whacky eh
[13:07] <ristojc> annother possibility is that he had broken the package and changed the values
[13:07] <D> yah but you can detect broken packages yes
[13:07] <ristojc> but I doubt that
[13:07] <D> and it wont let you publish it
[13:08] <D> i thought?
[13:08] <ristojc> yes we can detect them and they won't even upload
[13:08] <D> figured
[13:08] <ristojc> as I said weird
[13:08] <D> indeed
[13:09] <D> ive been waiting for someone to figure out that im glad you guys did a good job on that:)
[13:09] <D> keeping the package in tact thingy
[13:10] <ristojc> well it has been there quite long
[13:10] <D> well at least no more worrying about 3danal thats a good thing:)
[13:10] <ristojc> yep that is a releaf
[13:11] <D> and there are no cureent other creative methods
[13:11] <D> woohooo
[13:11] <D> This is all good again!
[13:11] <D> Hey sir excellent job btw:)
[13:11] * D high fives risto
[13:12] <D> lets hope with the release of the new ati no other crap comes up:)
[13:12] <D> thats usally when the bugs are grandious
-
DCC session closed
Session Close: Thu Jan 11 13:12:41 2001


Session Start: Sun Jan 14 15:05:51 2001

Session Start: Sun Jan 14 15:05:56 2001
Chat with ristojc
Waiting for acknowledgement...
Session Close: Sun Jan 14 15:05:59 2001


Session Start: Sun Jan 14 15:06:54 2001
[15:06] <D> risto sir
[15:07] <D> i found a new bug
[15:07] <D> :(
[15:07] <D> http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3985095
[15:07] <D> look at drago
Session Close: Sun Jan 14 15:09:27 2001


EDit and no offencse opp i didnt really no you back then and had a bad imprression :( sorry

[JCviggen]

[13:59] it's odd that mr Viggen just has those three...


heh, there's a funny explanation for that one ... I had just gotten the @xtremesystems.org addy. All my scores had previously been done under evo-6@freegates.be . Since I wanted it to show the other addy, I transferred only my highest projects to the "new" account.

Anyway, later I submitted the 19K low res and the 16K score (and a few others to show my progress) 3dp files who were cleared as legit. All a thing of the past now.... wondering if I still have those files somewhere... lol
Nice that you saved the whole thing ... very clever to document it all. Oh and nice new score :)

[Raptor]

finally some lights about this subject...


Session Start: Wed Jan 10 14:32:16 2001
[14:32] http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3472301
[14:32] Thats one of his old links
[14:33] quote:
[14:33] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[14:33] Originally posted by Raptorius
[14:33] Hey DJ, don't tell me that you're saying that RivaTuner, and changing Lod Bias is, for you, considered cheating?
[14:33] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[14:33] of course it ain't, but I did use a "controversial" tool. I could have made a 15.500+ score with it but didnt use it like that ... still, I said i'd take down the score soon and do it without it. I came close this morning but my damn car high decided to play up... will get some water cold and try again


ok, i admit, i was the causer of all this thing... j/k ;)

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

Alright, it's obvious that these guys - JC, DJ, OPP, Mr. Icee, macci, kamu - aren't cheating, they don't need to. However there really should be a list of "tweakers" that aren't tweakers, and I would garuntee all of the guys I named could be trusted not to use them.

BTW, Nice one on , banned after 1 post. I don't think he needed to post all that. . .

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Qkjhfhaiguihfma


BTW, Nice one on , banned after 1 post. I don't think he needed to post all that. . .


Kind of standard policy... he makes a new account and it gets banned... that way only purely necessary posts are made by him.... like the one he did now was most informative ... but it does NOT change the fact that -for example- he said some things about DDTUNG which are simply unacceptable, for those reasons he is and always will be banned as soon as he posts under a new name. I have nothing to do with any bannings but I do support the policy... not banning DJ would lead to worse things eventually... like this it stays limited

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

I haven't been around long enough to know what he has said here about DDTUNG, but I know he always has something in his Project Description about one of you guys, and vice versa, but I thought that was the whole fun of getting a high score, rubbing it in, encouragin competition, etc. . .

[DDTUNG]

Thanks for posting the link MrIcee.

In case anyone still has doubts, the first post in that thread was an outright lie, as demonstrated by subsequent events, and showed DJ's malicious intent.

And he had known OPP long enough when that slant was made four months ago.

The ban stays.

DDTUNG:cool:

[MrIcee]

Sorry DD..I added some stuff to the link post but decided it wasn't worth it..I accidently deleted the whole post..heres the link again :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1855

Let me at least add that in correspondance from RistoC he indicated there was no such "filter". I no longer have that correspondance and apologize..but I remember that statement being made.

Randi:D

[DDTUNG]

There is no need to elaborate further on that count. In his latest post the defendant has pleaded 'guilty'.:D

I only wish his friend would accept that he has done something ungentlemanly, and stop coming here to defend him.

My last remark will be that the ban had nothing to do with his remarks about me. Everyone who knows me knows better, and I really don't care what the others think.

Let's not trash another good thread.:)

DDTUNG:cool:

[Hiwayman]

Since my name has been mentioned, I have to reply to D's post.

[13:26] the disabled projects
[13:27] oh you meqan if he submitted one that was acheat you took them all down?\
[13:27] i mean the whole lot of his scores
[13:27] yep... no just on jun/july
[13:27] it was hiwayman btw
[13:27] I know I was wondering what I should do about him
[13:28] he said his 15,7xx score was legit but admitted to having a 3danalyzer non default
[13:28] should I give the projects back
[13:28] well thats really your call\
[13:28] havn't made a decision yet
[13:28] so what is the new way you tlked about?
[13:28] im surprised a couple more peops scores were not taken down though

The 3D Analyzer score in question was not published and was used for comparison purposes AND labeled "Cheat Score". It was benched with the rendering turned off, so it was very easy to spot.

I'm pretty sure that Iwasn't the only person on page one to run a bench with 3D Analyzer to see what all the fuss was about.

BUT I DID NOT use it to improve my published results as that would seem pointless and self defeating.

The copy of 3D Analyzer I had was passed to me by another page one scorer as was one of his .3dp files for comparison purposes.

Anyone here brave enough to admit they ran a bench using 3D Analyzer, ever, just to see what it was like, D just has.........

[13:44] so at least yours is run with analyze
[13:44] scrutiny?
[13:44] what you mean mine
[13:44] you mean the one i just showed you
[13:45] i dont publish any scores with 3danalyzer i just use it to compare to other peoples Silly!

One other point:

[13:45] all older projects dating between april and june 8 are a susspect of 3danalyze use so if I find a peak in that timeframe in users projects I'll take a closer look at them

That's when I first got my Prometeia rig and vid card. So I guess that the suddenly increased scores raised some suspicion.


One final point:

Since JC managed to re-publish his scores he must have been above suspicion:)

[sysfailur]

......Ridiculous.

[Hiwayman]

Alright, it's obvious that these guys - JC, DJ, OPP, Mr. Icee, macci, kamu - aren't cheating, they don't need to.

Mike,

I hope that you're not suggesting that I do need to. :stick:

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Hiwayman


One final point:

Since JC managed to re-publish his scores he must have been above suspicion:)

Actually they were simply 'released'.
I sent about 6 .3dp files to Risto, who examined them and found them clean. Including the one of my highest scores and some slightly lower ones to show my progress...

but still, I think we can close this topic once and for all now though ;)

[PiLsY]

Does DJ remind anyone of a teachers pet running off to "tell-tale" at every oppurtunity? He seems to enjoy backstabbing people then standing back and watching the resultant ruckus, tutting whenever the "teachers" show up. No sir I certainly wouldnt have wanted to be Mr DJ when all the hall monitors werent looking and his class mates caught up with him. One word i think sums him up pretty well. Slimy.

Get a life, get a woman and most importantly get the f*ck out of everyones face.

PiLsY.

[EDIT] Sorry if above comments offend anyone (apart from the target audience of course) as its not my intention. The guy just really rubs me up the wrong way.

[DDTUNG]

LMAO!

DDTUNG:cool:

[sysfailur]

Originally posted by PiLsY
Does DJ remind anyone of a teachers pet running off to "tell-tale" at every oppurtunity? He seems to enjoy backstabbing people then standing back and watching the resultant ruckus, tutting whenever the "teachers" show up. No sir I certainly wouldnt have wanted to be Mr DJ when all the hall monitors werent looking and his class mates caught up with him. One word i think sums him up pretty well. Slimy.

Get a life, get a woman and most importantly get the f*ck out of everyones face.

PiLsY.

[EDIT] Sorry if above comments offend anyone (apart from the target audience of course) as its not my intention. The guy just really rubs me up the wrong way.

He rubs you up? Eweee... :P j/k

And uh, DITTO. :flame:

[PiLsY]

Jesus sys did you have to say that?

Im starting to feel a bit faint....

No sleep for me tonight.

PiLsY.

[Marci]

*yawn* bored of this entire jc / dj thang now... can we find summat new to ööööö about?

[PiLsY]

I win :D.

JUST managed to get it saved before it rebooted. Glad I decided to do a cpuid shot on its own before loading mbm :p. As soon as the dash came up it bombed out.

FYI - removing the heatspreader makes one HELL of a difference. Another 200mhz straight off the bat. After taking mine off I found it was only making about 60% contact with the core - the entire right corner third wasnt touching.

[Raptor]

:eek: WOW, that's one hell of a CPU you got there pisly... :P:thumbsup:

To bad it simply is XTREMly expensive, since i got back to studies... no more money for 3DMark experiences...

[JCviggen]

Pilsy, I found pretty much the same thing :D

However I have to say, I cant run this thing without a coldplate. Without coldplate i've adapted the CPU kit to fit nicely, but it just doesnt want to work with me. It will shut itself off when it starts to load windows... like when you have bad contact and the CPU overheats. Only in this case its running between -18 and -16 and it shuts down? wtf? A coldplate seems to fix it but OC's are down that way..

[PiLsY]

Got a fix for that :D.

You have to mod the mounting a bit m8. You need to file about 3mms off the upper mount standoff posts and then file out a small notch for the HIP reg to sit in. Grind about 3mms off the screws and away you go :D. Helps to have a nicely lapped prometia head as well. Takes about 15 minutes.

Have to admit I shat myself when I was getting that spreader off. My eyes could see a P4 2.8b but my brain was thinking £430 - bye bye warranty....

PiLsY.

[JCviggen]

Super glue would fix that warranty right up m8 ;)

And I already made the space for the HIP, I removed the 4 little feet, and it sits low enough... I get a beautiful print in the thermal compound too.. but it just wont run... and like I said, temps were -16 but it still shut down...

Now I just killed my only decent IT7 measuring the voltages on the mosfets... i'll PM you about that... me = having a bad day :(

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

I meant nothing against you Hiwayman. I just forgot about you ;) No offense, I know you were a Madonion'er too.

[majormav]

Originally posted by PiLsY
I win :D.

JUST managed to get it saved before it rebooted. Glad I decided to do a cpuid shot on its own before loading mbm :p. As soon as the dash came up it bombed out.

FYI - removing the heatspreader makes one HELL of a difference. Another 200mhz straight off the bat. After taking mine off I found it was only making about 60% contact with the core - the entire right corner third wasnt touching. excellent going pilsy ...... ** no mav leave your heatspreader on ** you got some bottle taking it off m8 but a big big congrats on 4gig :banana: :banana: :banana: :toast: :toast:

[PiLsY]

Cheers :). First P4 in the world over 4gig I believe in windows that isnt on LN2 or Dry Ice :). Big milestone for me, but going for more now. Next target - 3dmark at 4gig :D.

PiLsY.

[majormav]

go m8 go get it ... is it really possible without LN2 though with current cpu s?

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

Well unless this has been addressed, this is how it stands.

I believe the 22,000+ scores are out there, but Madonion's ORB has a 3999Mhz CPU limit - apparently they didn't see this coming either.

So, first 3DMark @ 4Ghz, no, first not using liquid nitrogen, yes I believe so. :)

[Pedro Rocha]

Xtreme System Members Wasted All Competition on TOP PCMark Scores!!!


:toast:

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/7top_ORB_PCMark.jpg[B]

[Hiwayman]

Pilsy,

Really awesome stuff M8:D

[PiLsY]

3D Mark at 4ghz without LN2 - not at the moment id say. Well, its *maybe* possible but youd need one o fthose golden cpus thats one in a million. Heres to saving up £435,000,000 to try and find it :p.

PiLsY.

[zakelwe]

Nice work Pilsy,

Do you have the fastest P4 in the UK now ?

Regards

Andy

[PiLsY]

God knows.

Should point out that that 4ghz is only a screenshot and it locked up straight after, so far from 4ghz stable :). In actual fact I was going for a picture of a 4ghz post - took the piccy when it posted, turned round and it was sat in windows :p. Snapped a quick shot of cpuid, trid to load mbm to geta screenie with the transparent dash in but it rebooted as soon as the dash popped up.

Anyway - im experiencing a whole new problem now. Im getting crashes going off load - bit weird and ive never had that before. I can sit there and run pifast, but it crashes as soon as the press any key to continue screen comes up. Same with super pi - can run the 16mil test, but crashes when it pops the calculation complete box up. 3D Mark locks inbetween tests as the cpu load drops off. Seems to be happening at basically every speed and voltage. Im wondering if the heatspreader acts like a buffer to stop temps falling to quickly after the cpu comes off load. I can get 3dmark to complete, but only by running for instance prime95 in the background on low priority. It kills the score though :(.

PiLsY.

[JCviggen]

Pilsy,

I'm running this heatspreaderless 2.80A now at 1.40V and 3300 MHz and it seems to work just fine, no problems on/off load ... even though my temps are good, I cant clock it very high or it'll shut down upon boot, or when stressed for a while in windows. Yesterday I was folding and the CPU temp was reading -13 while folding. After 15 min bam, overheating shutdown... logical isnt it ;)
these things act weird without their HS...

[PiLsY]

JC - whats happening I think is that the prometia head is cooled along a 35mm diameter circle. Before this full circle was cooling the heatspreader, so the full cooling potential was being realised. Because of this the heatspreader was acting like a pelt basically and storing the cold for want of a better ord. This gives the cpu a "heat conductive buffer" during operation. When certain parts of the cpu are heated upa nd cool down during normal use, the heatspreader had enough energy absorbtion/storage to even out these spikes.

Without the heatspreader on though we are relying on a very small amount of the prometias evap capacity to do the same amount of work as before. The direct die cooling is making up for thsi to an extent, but under high voltage high mhz and changing load scenarios it just cant cope.

My next plan is to get a copper version of the IHS milled up and try using that. It should offer better clocking than the standard spreader.

Now onto the next part. because my evap head is now modded to fit a cpu thats about 3 - 4mms lower than specced im going to go the rest of the way and try and get around an 8mm overhead. Can you guess whats next? Yup, a pelt :D. I reckon with some severe trimming of the top mount mechanism that I can get enough leeway to fit a pelt under there using the copper heatspreader as a coldplate.

The only thing im not sure on is whether the prometia could cope with a 156watt or 220 watt pelt. Im aiming for -30 or so under load and around -40 - 50c idle, but without all the hassle of chilled water.

I WILL get 4ghz stable for 3dmark without needing LN2 or dry ice. Im damned if im gonna be walked all over by pour and pray muppets at 3dmark (no offense all you LN2 guys ;)) :D.

If any of you pelt or phase change gurus have any comments on the viability of this feel free to pm/post/email me. Gonna need your help with this :). The next xtreme project?

PiLsY.

[JCviggen]

M8,

I'm not sure a pelt is actually going to work well, but it would be interesting if you could give it a try :)

You will need 2 coldplates (below and on top of the pelt) which will make the whole thing quite high compared to the original, but that should be easy to cope with.
The big question is, will the extra heat generated by the pelt cause such an increase in evap temps that the CPU temps were better off without it ... Personally I think it doesnt get any better than evap directly on the CPU, but since it hasnt been tried yet, it would be nice to see this theory confirmed or proven wrong ;)

[PiLsY]

How come Id need coldplates m8? Surely the milled up copper heatspreader could be the cpu side coldplate and a direct evap contact hot side?

I was thinking the evap would be basically like a waterblock - direct contact with the pelt to the evap and a coldplate cpu side (aka the milled up heatspreader).

Thats what I was thinking with the prometia. I think it would probably end up going further at lower voltage, but higher voltage would take it over the heat capacity of the prometia.

PiLsY.

[JCviggen]

The evaporator is too small to cover the whole pelt m8 ... it'll cover the middle section but you'll burn up the sides if you dont use a coldplate on top... same goes for the bottom side, if you only have contact in the middle, you will only get a fraction of the cooling power. The 226W for example goes for the whole surface... if you put a CPU in the middle it"ll be a spectacular meltdown i'm afraid...

[PiLsY]

Thats why I was considering the 156watt pelt. Its a 40 x 40 instead of 50 x 50 like the 226 watt. The evap head on mine measures 41 x 42mm, so itd cover it nicely. The only question is would the 156 watter be sufficient?

PiLsY.

[JCviggen]

No idea m8...

Wont know before you try :D
For some reason the coolinghead seems to be smaller than a pelt to me, but thats cos i'm used to seeing 172's maybe...

[JCviggen]

BTW another very weird thing.... my 2.50A arrived today and I took it for a spin but... I told you about the overheating protection apparently shutting down the system right ? I figured that was because the heatspreader was removed off the 2.80.... but now with this 2.5 WITH heatspreader the exact same thing happens and high speed and voltage :confused: WTF is that about?? It never happened to me before and when I removed the HS off the 2.80 it started doing it... now this 2.5...
Its not the board, my IT7 (I'm on the max2 now) does the exact same thing...

[PiLsY]

Just took off the prometia head unit to check contact and was rewarded with seeing a small round patch of burned AS2 in the middle right of the cpu. I guess the heatspreader is pretty much essential with phase change. My guess at what happened is that because of the way phase change works the entire evap head isnt cooled equally. Its cooled along the path of the channels. This means that certain parts of the cpu will be cooled better than others. The area with burned AS2 on still had a perfect contact pattern, the AS2 was just browned and powdery.

Ive put the heatspreader back on for now until I can get hold of a small thin copper coldplate. The cpu doesnt seem too adversely affected, although it looks like im getting 20mhz or so less clockspeed (stable at 3.564 now instead of 3.585ghz, with a notch higher on the vcore too). Still, a copper cold plate should sort that out. Anyone fancy donating me one :)? About 3 - 4mm thickness should do the job quite nicely.

PiLsY.

[ctgilles]

yeah, my CPU's rock :D

[Marci]

PIlsy, I'll give u one when you come over saturday...

[Marci]

a coldplate that is...

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by ctgilles
yeah, my CPU's rock :D

Well I'd like it if I couldn come round tomorrow or friday or so (hopefully with the card in, but either way) and get my own CPU back... i'm tired of this heatspreaderless piece of öööö big time.
My own normal 2.8 will do just fine.

[PiLsY]

Glad you cleared that up marci ;). And cheers as well :).

Will try to get up the motivation to bring my prometia - can show you whats been done for more downforce. Its clamping so tightly atm that when I take the evap head off I cant actually see any AS3 - its all squeezed out at the edge. The mobo is bent something chronic :P.

PiLsY.

[macci]

looks like somebody just got a new PCMark score:
CPU 9663, Mem 9056, 2.8G@3917MHz w/ waterchiller (http://service.madonion.com/compare?pcm=742392) ;)

[macci]

..and a new 3DMark score too :D

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4771097

21k w/ watercooling!
W00t! :D

WTG DJ ;)

[FUGGER]

Great job JC in passing OP and the LN2, I see 21K in your near future.

[JCviggen]

I guess luck is reserved for the ugly ppl on this world, not for me :D :( :confused:

/me kicks his pos 2.80 chip ;)

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

JC, not to be an asshat or anything, but this time, DJ didn't say anything about you in his score, or comments. YOU did, start this one. But we don't need to start this argument again.


Anyways, YAY for DJ.

Well, he did kind of "respond" in his PCMark score. . . :)

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Qkjhfhaiguihfma
JC, not to be an asshat or anything, but this time, DJ didn't say anything about you in his score, or comments. YOU did, start this one. But we don't need to start this argument again.


Anyways, YAY for DJ.


ho ho there , I didnt put anything at all in my project info about DJ I think?? I mean not at the moment anyway you must be lagging a bit ;)
Mind you, he does refer to me in his PCM info :) But hey its all in good fun, just to make at least thÃ:banana:t clear

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

I guess luck is reserved for the ugly ppl on this world, not for me


That's what I was reffering to. . . Anyway, yes all in good fun. Probably more fun for. . .well, nevermind.:D

[ORBMADNESS]

9613/9000 mem Holy Krikke:flame: