If I got a x800xt would I break 30k?

[computerpro3]

Just wondering.....system is in sig....
tried looking at the orb, but nothing much to compare...
Don't worry, I am obviously not basing my decision to buy or not around a synthetic benchmark, I am simply curious.


Also, would a Maze 4 GPU waterblock fit on it?

Thanks in advance

[macci]

I'm afraid that a Northwood at 4GHz will not offer enough system speed (CPU power/bandwidth) for 30k in 2001 - no matter what videocard you put in there.

[computerpro3]

hmmmm not even in 1/1 ratio with 2-2-2-5 memory?


oh well... maybe 25k is a more realistic goal. I'm already at 21900.....

[Geforce4ti4200]

Macci may be right, 3dmark 2001 is extremely cpu dependant even on a ti4200, its gonna be unbelievabily cpu dependant on an x800. You still should get more than 25k, a stock 3400+ and stock x800 pro was getting 24.5k with bad ram timings. he woulda been closer to 25.5k with 2-2-2-5 ram. Your cpu is a little faster than that, so tack on another 1000 marks for your cpu over a stock 3400+ so youd pull 26.5k with a stock x800 pro. the x800xt would have you at 28.5k stock. hmmm maybe 30k *is* possible after all. the x800xt gets like 260fps in nature if I remember correctly. Thats more than almost any overclocked x800 pro. youd need 700MHz on the x800 pro to match a stock x800xt's 16 pipe core. Macci does have 35.5k and I cant imagine your cpu being 5.5k marks slower, a 4GHz p4 isnt that bad ;) I guess well find out in 2 weeks(more if delay)

[jfr0]

Yeah this video card is not going to give you 8000 marks

[Crankster]

Not very likely, with a well setup A64 yes. Quite possible but as is your cpu is too slow imho.

[computerpro3]

well when I go x800xt this summer, If the waterblock I have now doesn't fit on it, I will go with an all pelt setup for the cpu and gpu. If not, I'll chill the water. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, as soon as I get the card and verify it works, its gonna be vmodded. Vmods should be readily available by then as I am gonna have to wait a few months till the summer job cash flows in...

If I did go pelt (hoping the block doesn't fit to gimme an excuse :D ) that setup should get me to 4.2ghz stable (I can sit in windows @ 4.1ghz now but thats it at that speed) or so on the CPU but I'm not sure what to assume on the x800 because I've obviously never overclocked it before...

My goal is to break 30k by the end of the year....should make plenty of money over the summer and my 16th birthday is coming up this year, so I'll have the cash. I'd like to do it with this platform, however, because it's more xtreme than buying a whole new Dothan setup or whatever....I hope its possible...


I guess we'll find out

:toast:

[althes]

good luck

[pkrew]

With a 3.0C at 265 (3.98G) 1/1 2225 it started cap out at 25.4k. That was with a 9800XT at 543/441. With a x800xt you'd probably gain 1-2k in nature and a smaller amount in the other tests. The best you're probably going to get is around 28k maybe a little more.

[kromosto]

yes 28k will be the top p4c+x800xt plat combo score as i think

[Geforce4ti4200]

guys, hes got a 9700 pro, not some 9800xt. can you link me to your nearly 22k high run? what do you get in car high? 115? I know that for every 20fps in nature you gain 1k marks because the other tests increase but alot less than nature. I doubt 30k will happen with an x800 pro, but the x800xt should be alot more powerful


edit: a stock x800 pro will eat any overclocked 9800xt period then a few thousand marks can be gained by overclocking the x800pro. plus the x800xt will be even more on top of that. could be 3-4 more on the fastest s939 athlon fx, half that on your 4GHz p4.

[pkrew]

Nature is like all the other high tests, its fps x 20. A 100 fps increase will give you 2k points.

[Geforce4ti4200]

understood and 20fps will give 400 points, but youd gain the other 600 points from both dragons plus car low. the next 20fps in nature may be worth only 900 then 800 as the cpu bottlenecks it more and more, the increases wont be linear. on a pentium4 at say 3GHz a 20fps in nature would mean not much over 400 marks cause nothing but nature would increase. maybe a couple fps in dragons. His cpu is equal to a 240x10 a64 with 1mb cache and 2-2-2-5 ram timings. If the a64 has 512k cache and/or worse ram timings then youd need alot more MHz. tons of a64s with x800 on the orb getting 27k or more that his p4 would match. say he does break 27k on an x800 pro, wouldnt the x800xt give him the last 3k he needs?

[computerpro3]

here ya go....

NOt my best bench but my best is on my pc upstairs which is currently devoid of memory....my best had 120FPS in car high and was run at 4015mhz coincidentally.....or not. I was in the high 21900's.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7747973

This bench was at 425/355.
Upon later testing, I gained 20mhz on the core and 5mhz on the memory with my new PSU and the high 5v line but I didn't have my Mushkin available then and I don't have memory at the moment so I can't test again. I am getting some more bh-5 right now though so I should break 22k then.

Also one weird think I notice...every time I run the test, my CPU speed varies....Once I benched at 4015 or something and sometimes I bench at 3968mhz or something. Whats up with that? It is impacting my scores for sure.....

[pkrew]

I don't think the x800xt is 3k better than the x800pro. Probably more like 1k, maybe a little more. The biggest advantage for the xt will be in 3d03

[Tedinde]

You wont do it with that chip.

[Geforce4ti4200]

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7840104

your cpu is about equal to this guy's a64 in lobbies but you beat him in car high. shouldnt your car low be better though? hes beating you by so much in that test even though your ahead in car high! I gain more in car low with cpu clocks than with gpu too. You should have NO problem breaking 27k on an x800 pro.


http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7826079

Now look at Jason's score. He left his cpu stock, yet he broke 27k from gpu clocks alone! Jason has said that he would be like 2k higher with an x800xt and a stock fx51. your cpu is almost 5fps higher in car chase high. your x800xt you are getting should beat his x800 pro with ease. If you dont break 30k, it will be VERY close then. anyone agree?

[computerpro3]

yea my car low sucked in that run because of the CPU speed fluctuation. When it benches at 4015mhz, that FPS is usually higher. AS I said earlier, this isn't my best run. Thats why I didn't bother to put the details and specs in the description like I normally do.

PS whoa whoa whoa...I just looked closer at that bench at I didn't even break 300 in that car low........WTH I'm usually around 310-315 musta gotten a bunk run. I hate the cars. I have to re run them so many damn times

[Geforce4ti4200]

bad car low runs can cost me 10-15fps on my ti4200. for you it can be 20+ fps cause you got a faster card. so anyway do you believe youll get 30k or real close if not? because I do ;)

[kromosto]

we can make some guesses as far as i know best intel score was 26k from macci with 9800xt before he got an amd64 this can be a good start now there is 3.4 ghz intels and benches with new gpus are there in the orb so i think we can guess a +-500 score easily

[computerpro3]

with vmods and chilled water or tec I think I'll come very, very close if not get it. I can't wait! I'm gonna work my ass off to get that card (after I just finished working my ass off for the system I have now :rolleyes: )....I should make, what is it going for, like $140 off my radeon 9700, throw in 60 for the modded antec I'm gonna sell, 30 for a thermaltake 480 im gonna sell, 15 for the vga silencer i gotta sell, assuming the card costs $450 by the time I buy it...thats like $250 I gotta make by odd jobs. I hate being young. Plus car savings...It's not gonna be a fun first month of summer money wise:D

But if I get that 30k score it will all be worth it :toast:

[kromosto]

yes if you get 30k it really woth it

[Geforce4ti4200]

I am sure other people will bench their p4 and x800xt before you so you can always view their scores and compare car and lobby and see where you stand. If they can break 30k with the same car chase fps you have then you will break 30k. If they get 29k or more then you just need to get higher x800xt clocks than them :) good luck, I wish you luck on 30k, wish me luck on 20k when I go a64

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by kromosto
we can make some guesses as far as i know best intel score was 26k from macci with 9800xt before he got an amd64 this can be a good start now there is 3.4 ghz intels and benches with new gpus are there in the orb so i think we can guess a +-500 score easily
His score was done last fall on a 9800 Pro at somewhere around 580-590 on the core and P4 at 4Ghz. With a 9800XT at 650/460 or so 27k may have been possible.

With that said, he would only be 2-3k away with the X800 which shouldn't be too hard to achieve...you may come close to 30k but because of the CPU bottleneck you won't gain as many marks as you would think with that video card. Remember no matter how fast the video card is it still has to wait on the CPU to pass along the frames to be rendered. 30k would be possible with more CPU speed.

Also from what I have seen the X800XT is a good 40-50fps ahead of the Pro in Nature which is 1000 points on its own, and I would assume there would be somewhere around that many more from the large increase in Dragon Low + High but this is all speculation since I don't own one of these cards.

[kromosto]

opps sorry yes it was with 9800pro

[pkrew]

Originally posted by Soulburner
His score was done last fall on a 9800 Pro at somewhere around 580-590 on the core and P4 at 4Ghz. With a 9800XT at 650/460 or so 27k may have been possible.

With that said, he would only be 2-3k away with the X800 which shouldn't be too hard to achieve...you may come close to 30k but because of the CPU bottleneck you won't gain as many marks as you would think with that video card. Remember no matter how fast the video card is it still has to wait on the CPU to pass along the frames to be rendered. 30k would be possible with more CPU speed.

Also from what I have seen the X800XT is a good 40-50fps ahead of the Pro in Nature which is 1000 points on its own, and I would assume there would be somewhere around that many more from the large increase in Dragon Low + High but this is all speculation since I don't own one of these cards.

Try to remember he's going to be running this on water/water + tec not cascade. He wont be approaching that scale of oc. Also, from what I remember macci saying the only real differnce between the cards was in Nature. I doubt he could gain 1k in the rest of the tests. Also the P4C really ceilings out and even with a big boost from the card the scores don't increase that much.

[computerpro3]

thanks for your opinoins guys.....can't wait to find out for sure.....

anyone know if the maze4 gpu block i have now fits on it though?

[pkrew]

The new cards have the same mounting holes as the 9800 series

[DrJay]

Geforce4ti4200,
When you go A64, and overclock, you will find that 3dm2k1 is really GPU dependant (except now with the latest series of vid cards). Your bottleneck will be your vid card,...especially with your beloved gf4ti. You must accept this, deal with it, and move on with your life...... If you want to hit 20k you will need alot more out of your gf4 gpu clocks.

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by pkrew
Try to remember he's going to be running this on water/water + tec not cascade. He wont be approaching that scale of oc. Also, from what I remember macci saying the only real differnce between the cards was in Nature. I doubt he could gain 1k in the rest of the tests. Also the P4C really ceilings out and even with a big boost from the card the scores don't increase that much.
Thats exactly what I said, without more CPU speed the card won't gain him much because he will be bottlenecked.

And what about the cascade? Macci never had a cascade on his P4 + 9800 Pro last fall.

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by DrJay
Geforce4ti4200,
When you go A64, and overclock, you will find that 3dm2k1 is really GPU dependant (except now with the latest series of vid cards). Your bottleneck will be your vid card,...especially with your beloved gf4ti. You must accept this, deal with it, and move on with your life...... If you want to hit 20k you will need alot more out of your gf4 gpu clocks.

understood, I have been looking at what it takes for others to get 19k or more with their ti4200s. Zakawelke got 18.8k on a ti4200 slightly slower than me and a 3200+ at 235x10. I will be modding my ti4200 more and should have around 19.5k with his 2.35GHz and my ti4200 clocks. Then I dont see why going s939 should add another 500 easy. I am hoping my ti4200 will do 350-360/730-750 and those are some insane clocks too

[HawainPanda]

wow...those are some really nice ocs Geforce4ti4200

[Geforce4ti4200]

yea thanks too. I could always go thru more ti4200s like the one I have(asus v8420) it has bga ram and ocs crazy. Ive seen people get even higher clocks than what I did. 330/690 without mods. my core is in the higher limit without mods though but ive seen as high as 730 ram clocks. im at 340/700 now. I dont think ill ever have over 360 core on any ti4200 air cooled period but 750-780 is possible on the ram with tweakmonster sinks and good mods

[macci]

so youd pull 26.5k with a stock x800 pro. the x800xt would have you at 28.5k stock.
Going from 800Pro to 800XT will not give an increase anywhere even near that huge when ran on a 3GHz@4GHz P4 NW rig. The only test you'll see any real improvement (more than lets say 2-3fps) is Nature. And the difference there is around 30fps so overall around 700-800marks.
The thing with these new cards (at high OC) is that even on 3GHz A64 (w/ 270+ RAMspeed) every test (except nature) is CPU/bandwidth limited (I know I've said this already way too many times but for some reason certain people just dont seem to get the message :D).

As far as the 26k with R9800pro and P4 NW goes it was done with watercooled 3.2C@4GHz (250 1:1 2-2-2-5, P4C800 "TURBO mode") with dryice cooled GPU at 570 / 423 or so.

[Geforce4ti4200]

I get it, thanks for explaining. He would be better off just getting a 9800 pro then if hes so cpu limited, an x800xt would be wasted except in nature. why not get a 9800 pro for half the price and with your cooling push it up to 500/400 youll still score insane except your nature will be a little below 200, but like Macci said its only accounting for less than 1000 marks anyway. youd need 50fps in nature for 1k marks. youd probably break 25k marks with that too. higher 9800 pro clocks wont do much except in nature, ditto to x800xt. the higher you overclock the 9800 pro, the more cpu limited you become and the less returns you get.

[zakelwe]

Well my suggestion is sell all the P4 stuff and the ATi and get the following

939 FX AMD
Nvidia 6800GT


You can make a massive difference on car, lobby and drag and for nature you wil lget a great score and boost it by using rivatuner.

Will cost, ask for your birthday presents early.

How come everyone is so young and so rich, when I was 16 I had just started going to pubs and spent all my time on getting enough money for Friday and Saturday night !

Regards

Old Git

[pkrew]

Originally posted by Soulburner
Thats exactly what I said, without more CPU speed the card won't gain him much because he will be bottlenecked.

And what about the cascade? Macci never had a cascade on his P4 + 9800 Pro last fall.

I seem to remember you saying something about a 9800xt at 650 core and gaining as much from drago h/l as you would n. Dry ice is still a lot better than water/+-tec.

[computerpro3]

If I went a64, I'm not rich, so I would have to carry over some things from my system....

The psu should be fine I think (it better be for the money I paid)

I have a few questions since I'm no expert in the AMD area by any means (although I'd like to become more familiar with them)....

am I correct in assuming that those boards will have pci express and all the new goodies?
is socket 939 using ddr2 or ddr1 (in other words will bh5 work)?
Whens the Nvidia GT coming out?
When exactly is the s939 a64 going to come out....

the a64 mobile 3400 is looking awfully tempting right now...I could sell my chip for $350-400 on hardforums (guaranteed 4ghz, I've done it before), but I think if I get a new video card my rig "should" be plenty fast for HL2, Doom3, STALKER, etc. I can already handle far cry maxed out with no lag @ 1280x1024. After all a 4ghz p4 with bh5 running 2-2-2-5 ain't that slow in the big picture...must....resist....upgrading....urge....

Thanks for all the opinions and help guys!

[computerpro3]

Originally posted by zakelwe
How come everyone is so young and so rich, when I was 16 I had just started going to pubs and spent all my time on getting enough money for Friday and Saturday night !

Regards

Old Git


Only reason I have money for the computer is because I work my ass off over the summer and I rarely have time to go out friday or saturday because of baseball. My AAU team has minimum 1 game friday and minimum doubleheader saturday, sometimes 3 or 4 games if we are in a tournament. So basically it's wake up at 6:00, drive 2 hours to some obscure place in the middle of nowhere, pitch one game, sit the next, and play in the next two, and get home at midnight. For example on memorial day (monday after next) my schedule allocates 10 hours for the game lol.

Although when we do have a rare day off i tend to blow a little more money than I should with the ladies...;)

[zakelwe]

Here's a rather nice 6800 result


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28844&page=4


Regards

Andy

[computerpro3]

very nice....especially with a stock cpu.

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by pkrew
I seem to remember you saying something about a 9800xt at 650 core and gaining as much from drago h/l as you would n. Dry ice is still a lot better than water/+-tec.
I don't think the 9800XT would have created a bottleneck at the CPU, whereas the X800XT would without a doubt.

[pkrew]

It could just be my poor benching but I gained very little going from 535/436 to 543/441. Maybe 50 points.