Vapochill LS and Mach ST/GT test part1

[petervandamned]

A quick test between the leading Phase Change units (part 1)



http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29231/full.jpgThe Vapochill light speed from Asetek
http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29240/full.jpgThe Mach II GT from nVENTIV:
http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29241/full.jpg The Mach II ST from nVENTIV:


Both come without the upper case

Prices :

Vapochill light Speed = € 799 + Freight
Mach II GT = € 849 + Freight
Mach II ST = € 550 + Freight



The test is been taken with a room temperature 20 degrees, using in both units the same test rig. Asus P4C800 + PIV 3.4 0C.

The settings were identical in all tests, the same main board and CPU were used each time only the cooler was changed. I tested at 1.55V, 1.65V, 1.75V and 1.85V bios settings.

Test method : stressed 10 minutes each with Prime95 torture (Small FFTs - max FPU stress) test then screenshot taken. All units were running at 100% fan speed. Good CPU contact was verified before and after all testing.

So lets start this

At stock speed

Vapochill LS load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29233/full.jpg

Mach II GT load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29237/full.jpg

At 4016 MHz

Vapochill light speed load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29234/full.jpg

Mach II ST load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29235/full.jpg

Mach II GT load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29236/full.jpg

At 4355,2 MHz

Mach II GT load

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29209/full.jpg

At 4433,5 MHz

Mach II GT load single memory super PI

http://www.tweakers.net/ext/f/29238/full.jpg

thnkz 2 JMKE

http://www.madshrimps.be/forums/attachment.php?postid=59084

Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Vapochill LS was 4250 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II GT was 4400 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II ST was 4250 MHz

In the tests I was able to higher over clocks using only windows.

The units have all the same looks and the same way to cool the CPU. The Mach II ST and the Vapochill LS perform almost the same, the Mach II GT is one step higher in evolution.

What about the noise? Vapochills LS is at max a very loud machine compared to the both nVENTIV units. Personally I prefer the mounting system of the Mach’s but this I will show you in the second part of this test.

For the 3 systems I have tested I can still say, this is Overclocking heaven. Personally I owned a few vapochills and mach’s from the older series, but this next generations of both manufactures is good way to look into the future.

I am sorry but my digital camera is broken and I am waiting for the new one to arrive. At that point I will make a second review with pics of the insides and the way the mounting is be done. In this second review I will use a test bank with several settings for higher watts. This test bank has his own temperature readout so I can bypass the bios readout and get a much better en accurate readout.

Happy Overclocking

PetervanDamned






Click (frozencpu@mytweakers.net)

[Naughtyboy]

Very nice m8...

As you said this is overclockers heaven.... :D

However when it comes to the numbers...so far it seemes Mach II GT is the stronger one..and puts nventiv on top ones again.

A little surprised thou...that the GT is performing that much better than the LS unit....when it comes to raw cooling perfomance that is.

[asetek Inc.]

Nice test. You have chosen to show all units with aluminum kit. For the cause of accuracy you should maybe include this in your pricing information.

The LS has the aluminum kit as default and included in the price is also a bigger LCD, whereas the GT aluminum kit costs around 100€ on top of the basic price.


This is prices taken from a reseller carrying both products ( http://www.kit-tronics.com )

VapoChill LS: 876,75 $US (with alu kit and LCD)

MACH II GT: 1399,95 $US (with alu kit and LCD)

When comparing performance, the 523,2 $ difference is worth considering when comparing price / performance :D

[dpa]

my Mach II R404a modded unit still have enough power.. I see no reason to buy a LS..

[pkrew]

If you already have a mach II then probably not, but if you don't then the LS is cheaper and performs as well. If you add the cost of the aluminum kit the ST is more expensive than the LS and you don't get the LCD or usb.

[Marquzz]

Nice to see that ST is on pair with the new vappo...so much for that comeback :D

[gabbax]

yepp, but this was expected(from me)..so im not suprise at all...

[asetek Inc.]

We do look forward to the real tests, where you test the heat load and temperature. You are most likely aware, that your tests could indicate that a R134a unit is just as powerful as an R507 unit :)

[gabbax]

Well, this tests give us a hint what they will deliver, and i must say, im not impressed about the LS. Its not near the GT,whats your respond to that?:)

[xsky]

well done!

don't you have prescott to test really high heat loads? the reason many peoble bought the LS was asetek claiming "-25c @ 240W"
that's where the R507 Comp should do a good work.

[jmke]

nicely done petervandamned!!
if you like a quick graph overview, I excelled them here (http://www.madshrimps.be/forums/showthread.php?postid=59084#post59084) :)

[asetek Inc.]

Originally posted by gabbax
Well, this tests give us a hint what they will deliver, and i must say, im not impressed about the LS. Its not near the GT,whats your respond to that?:)

Well our respond to this is 523,2 $ lower price :toast:

a CPU-kit that supports all CPUs, and a compressor designed for / warranted by the compressor manufacturer for R404a / R507

We have chosen to optimize the LS for being able to remove around 250W instead of only 200W. If we chose to optimize for 200W, the temperatures would have been lower. Considering CPU roadmaps and overclocking, we trust this to be the best choice.

And finally we have seen other results than this, so lets await some more tests ;)

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
We do look forward to the real tests, where you test the heat load and temperature. You are most likely aware, that your tests could indicate that a R134a unit is just as powerful as an R507 unit :)


Also be aware it is an 11cc compressor vs an 8.5cc compressor (and if I could be bold enough to say, the 11 is a LOT more quiet than the 8.5 with comparable performance)

And unless you think a small 507 compressor could beat a huge 134a compressor I dont think the refridgerant has anything to do with it, rather the total package.

Its also an interesting choice to sacrifice temperatures for heatloads which will never occur, I must say.

Sorry, couldnt help myself ;)

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Well our respond to this is 523,2 $ lower price :toast:

a CPU-kit that supports all CPUs, and a compressor designed for / warranted by the compressor manufacturer for R404a / R507

We have chosen to optimize the LS for being able to remove around 250W instead of only 200W. If we chose to optimize for 200W, the temperatures would have been lower. Considering CPU roadmaps and overclocking, we trust this to be the best choice.

And finally we have seen other results than this, so lets await some more tests ;)

Fair deal really :toast: ,

From his results:

Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Vapochill LS was 4250 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II GT was 4400 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II ST was 4250 MHz

Is an extra 150 MHz stable on a P4 worth 523,2 $ ? ;)

Also have to add, but is the LCD worth 299 $ ? :D

[eva2000]

interesting test... just where's the original mach 2 in the comparison ? :)

[The Stilt]

"Cooling performance load/idle 240W @ -25,5'C "

So is P4 4016MHz / 1.665V pushing over 230W of heat out?
Nope, something like 105W - 120W would be closer.
Vapo LS evaporator seems to be -28.5c under load. If Asetek´s claim about "240W @ -25.5C" would be true, with this load evaporator temps should be like over -50c and cpu temps should be like -32c...

So where is about a half of the promised cooling power of Vapo Lightspeed?

If I remember correct, Asetek called nVentiv a liar because of those false readings of Mach2 temperature sensor.

nVentiv´s way:
Calibrate temperature sensor to show better temperatures than they actually are.

Asetek´s way:
Promise about a half better temperature / cooling power than it actually is.

:D

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by ricjax99
Fair deal really :toast:

Is an extra 150 MHz stable on a P4 worth 523,2 $ ? ;)

Thanks :)

Might as well get a cheaper M2 ST then, gets 150 MHz less than the GT but its the cheapest unit of them all not to mention the quietest too.

[pkrew]

I'm a little lost here and not sure why people are crapping on the LS. This is just one test and even if accurate its on par with the ST. The ST is the same as a mach II without the lcd and usb from what I've read. Even without the aluminum kit the mach II is $200 more than the LS. With the AL kit almost $400 more. The GT with the AL kit is $600 more and almost double the cost. I'm very much a noob at this, but it seems to me from this test that if money is no object then get the GT, but bang for the buck the LS appears to be a very nice deal.

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by The Stilt
nVentiv´s way:
Calibrate temperature sensor to show better temperatures than they actually are.

Asetek´s way:
Promise about a half better temperature / cooling power than it actually is.

:D

:ROTF:

Now thats ****'ed UP! ;)

Originally posted by JCviggen
Thanks :)

Might as well get a cheaper M2 ST then, gets 150 MHz less than the GT but its the cheapest unit of them all not to mention the quietest too.

Check my edit bro ;)

[asetek Inc.]

Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we ;)

According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.

Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder :D

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.

[eva2000]

i know 2 people with Vapochill LS and they seem to be happy with them one is using A64 system and one using P4 3.4C http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1803 :)

i'll stick with my Mach2 though heh

[Formann]

I dont see why Asetek even botherd making the LS. Diddn´t they know that nVentiv were gonna charge their Mk2 with 404 ? Everybody knew that..

They should hade gone with a Techumse L´unite CAE 2420 Z or the 2424. Those compressors are cheaper then Danfoss, and they are much more powerfull.

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we ;)

Absolutely :toast:


According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.


Well, it is extremely unlikely if not impossible that mainstream desktop processors will ever disspate 200W, because such heat cannot possible be removed by conventional means. High performance ICs are a vague discription, too.


Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder :D

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.

Well, it was never an issue about wether Danfoss gives warranty on anything I think. And if these compressors are as fragile as you say, how come in 2 years not a single one has failed on R404A ? Will they all simultaniously blow up at day nr 784 ? I have had one on R404A almost since the Mach 1 came out...it still hums along nicely. Since not every compressor is exactly equal when it comes off the production line, the "weaker" ones should have been failing already.
Of course you will say that the BD35F R134A compressor was in fact safe to use with R404A...
But for me the bottom line is..........what is the point for the representative of a company to reply in forums stating that some component the competition uses "is sure to fail" after xx time ? Shouldnt you focus on your own products? Whoever makes something will know what they are doing, and to reply to every topic that comes along on a certain subject isnt exactly a hint of professionalism... even though I do not hold any high rank in a company I refrain from replying in topics where its 1 vs the other simply because it is not up to me to show where people are right or wrong...

However let me tell you I am posting all this in good fun, and because I am living pretty near where you are, I wouldnt mind to grab a beer with you when you have the time :D

Enjoy your week-end !

[petervandamned]

I was not expecting asetek to respond :) or nventiv. In my test i was not looking at prices at all. So sorry if i forget to put in the seperate kit.

@ Asetek would you like me to test above 200 watts?
@ nVENTIV same question

my older vapochills or mach's i can test this together but i have adjusted them with other gasses. So if anybody in the netherlands have those ready for this total test i will be glad to do this.

[charlie]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we ;)

According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.

Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder :D

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.


I'm actually quite fond of the Vapo LS, but do have some ?? for Asetek. Knowing that Nventiv could SIMPLY recharge their EXISTING Mach 2 with 404a, why did Asetek base their LS on the performance of the older Mach 2? If I can make a suggestion to Asetek, please accept this:
1) Get the engineer back in the office, in front of the workstation.
2) Use a big MAC DADDY compressor filled with r507.
3) Keep everything else the same because the LS is much more refined than Nventiv product.
4) Price this NEW LS-XL the same as Nventiv GT...
5) Beat their temps... with today's hardware. 150mHz difference is HUGE! The enthusiast is just going to buy a "old" Mach 2 and charge with 507... or an ST for that matter! For Asetek to prosper they need a top-end model that is TRULY the best. Now don't take this the wrong way... I think Nventiv products look a bit rough, even garage-built. The LS is quite well put together, but doesn't offer the same "ooommpphhh". I believe the LS was an outstanding "first salvo" into this battle, but it's time to bring out the big guns, Asetek.

C

[asetek Inc.]

You are absolutely right about focusing on your own products. Did you actually read your own post ? ;) Im not focusing at your product at all. Im talking about a compressor from the company I used to work for.

Yes the BD35F has a more modern design, with more powerful bearings, valve system as its bigger brothers, why it will sustain the higher pressure. This is also why we dont supply the BD50F compressor with R404a, as it will not tolerate it in the lengthy run.

Also you cannot just compare a 8.5 and a 11cm3 compressor. As you will be told if talking to Danfoss, the CLX series are much more energy effecient.

I cannot or will not try to predict the failure rate of the NL11F compressor used with R404a. All I can say is, that there is a reason why Danfoss do not release it for use with R404a. That reason is, that a NL11F compressor with R404a will not last. Maybe it will will for 5 years, maybe not...

Fine lets stay away from the guessing. We have good reasons to believe CPUs to reach 200W within a recent amount of time, and we have optimized our cooling systems accordingly. You dont trust this, which is fine with me. We have different views on this - no problem.

I have beers in the fridge :toast:

[ricjax99]

If CPU's will be hitting 200W within a recent amount of time then those are going to be some rather oversize retail boxes ;)

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.

I have beers in the fridge :toast:

See you could have just said that :D :)

my PM box is open for suggestions on when to consume some danish brewings :)

[Hawk]

petervandamned,

Here are my results on the Vapochill LS w/ the Intel 3.4C also. I am running much cooler then you though.

I can use this chip w/ HT are 245 and w/o HT at 250FSB.

[ricjax99]

Is that under load? :confused:

[saaya]

thx a lot! great review vandamned!

[macci]

Hawk, I dont see Prime95 running there :D

edit: a difference of only 7C between evap and CPU die temp would suggest a non-loaded temp too..

[Hawk]

Originally posted by ricjax99
Is that under load? :confused:



Yes, also, why on you LS status page are your Fans showing 12Vdc? Mine is showing me 3.6Vdc. Are you running a 220V unit?

[`schr0et]

He is in Europe so yes he is running 220V

`s

[petervandamned]

Originally posted by Hawk
petervandamned,

Here are my results on the Vapochill LS w/ the Intel 3.4C also. I am running much cooler then you though.

I can use this chip w/ HT are 245 and w/o HT at 250FSB.

At my test i used the same main board and the same cpu.
Ofcourse there will be other results. On my home made cooling unit I get also better results ;) Thats why i will place part 2 ASAP this will be done by a special test bank.

Hopefully i will have some more PhCh units to compare.

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by macci
Hawk, I dont see Prime95 running there :D


Thats what i was getting at, hawk you say yes it is but what kind of load? run small fft's :stick:

[Hawk]

Here is Prime running continous. . .

[ricjax99]

The smaller FFT's he was running (8K/10K) stress the CPU more the 1024k's stress the memory/fsb more. Like i said try running small FFT's :rolleyes:

[macci]

You saying there is only 4C difference between CPU Die temp and evap temp (the difference between Heatspreader temp and die temp is more than that..)?
Either one of those readings is totally way off. I'm guessing CPU temp reading - or then the CPU was not properly loaded :D

[Hawk]

Give me a few minutes. I'll run the smaller FFT's. . .

[petervandamned]

Originally posted by Hawk
Give me a few minutes. I'll run the smaller FFT's. . .

I like your spirit

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by Hawk
Give me a few minutes. I'll run the smaller FFT's. . .

Like macci said they still look out but small FFT's woulkd be better as that was what petervandamned was running for 10mins.

[shidokanjohn]

Originally posted by Hawk
Here is Prime running continous. . .

Also cpu-z says 1.568vcore and mbm 1.65 vcore
Also cpu usage 0%???

Also ASUS mainboards shows 7-9c lower temps:)

[Shane5578]

cool, at least i now know the LS is better than the stock mach2

i always thought the GT would be better and it is.

hey petervandammed, you should disable the LCD on the LS, it'll reach lowever evaps that way.

[Hawk]

Here is w/ small FFT's.

[EmineM]

damn my prediction was right, I knew the GT was going to be around -10°C better than the LS :)

[asetek Inc.]

Originally posted by charlie

1) Get the engineer back in the office, in front of the workstation.
2) Use a big MAC DADDY compressor filled with r507.
3) Keep everything else the same because the LS is much more refined than Nventiv product.
4) Price this NEW LS-XL the same as Nventiv GT...
5) Beat their temps... with today's hardware. 150mHz difference is HUGE! The enthusiast is just going to buy a "old" Mach 2 and charge with 507... or an ST for that matter! For Asetek to prosper they need a top-end model that is TRULY the best. Now don't take this the wrong way... I think Nventiv products look a bit rough, even garage-built. The LS is quite well put together, but doesn't offer the same "ooommpphhh". I believe the LS was an outstanding "first salvo" into this battle, but it's time to bring out the big guns, Asetek.

C


2) Both the FR8.5CLX (230V) and the NF5.5CLX (115V) has bigger brothers. However we think the LS has plenty of power. If lower temperatures is wanted, simply reduce the charge of refrigerant, and optimize for 200W.


4) We dont see the market for 1400$ cooling solutions big enough to pursue.

5) Let us await more reviews. Our experience do not show a 150MHz difference. There are huge differences between the LS and the ST, both with regard to performance and features. We will await the situation. Nothing indicates a need for even bigger compressors. If we release a bigger compressor, what do you think the next move will be from the competition? End of the day we end up in a dual scroll compressor setup, affordable for 10 people in here :)

[charlie]

Since Asetek claims the LS functions better with higher heatloads, let me make a suggestion:
When I ran my Prescott 3.0E to 4609, the Dry Ice was sublimating as fast as I could add it to the tube. At 1.9V, the Prescott is a veritable inferno. SOOO, replace cool running 3.4C with a Pressie and see what happens :D Now THAT'S a torture test!!!!!!!

C

[interman]

well from someone who's never used phase changing i'm leaning towards the ls. the nicer looking cabinet and lcd is more important to me than slightly lower temps. and of course, the much lower price helps a lot too. that's why im saving up to get it.

if the slightly lower temps mattered that much to me i'd rather have built a custom cooler insteading of coughing up a fortune for the gt, but that's just me.

[charlie]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
2) Both the FR8.5CLX (230V) and the NF5.5CLX (115V) has bigger brothers. However we think the LS has plenty of power. If lower temperatures is wanted, simply reduce the charge of refrigerant, and optimize for 200W.


4) We dont see the market for 1400$ cooling solutions big enough to pursue.

5) Let us await more reviews. Our experience do not show a 150MHz difference. There are huge differences between the LS and the ST, both with regard to performance and features. We will await the situation. Nothing indicates a need for even bigger compressors. If we release a bigger compressor, what do you think the next move will be from the competition? End of the day we end up in a dual scroll compressor setup, affordable for 10 people in here :)

Mmmmmm....dual scrolls, mmmmmmmm.
I do like your idea about degassing to tune for 200w, though.


C

[Marquzz]

Stille little confused about the price. vandamned claimed the price is €799 for LS and €849 for GT but the asetek dude said it was $877 for LS and $1400 for GT?

[AndrOvr]

Originally posted by Hawk
Here is w/ small FFT's.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=424350




HOw much heat load is that? I guess not 240w, and the evap is almost at -25c ..

Didnt Asetek tunned the LS for -25c @ 240w ... ???? :stick: :confused:



:rolleyes:

[pkrew]

The best price I found on the LS was $828. They're usually $878. The GT is selling for $1250 at kit-tronics w/o the AL kit. The AL kit is $150. I suppose thats how he got $1400. The LS comes stock in AL. The other issue I suppose would be the cpu kit which the LS has both and only one with the GT. The extra kit cost about $100

[ant1]

http://www.asetek.com/filarkiv/Products/LightSpeed/Cooling-performance.gif
Looks quite accurate. The 4ghz P4 should have around 100-150w.
If you look at
petervandamned´s screenshot you´ll see the evap temp is -28 and the cpu temp is -16. That´s about the same temps the chart shows.

[Marquzz]

Originally posted by AndrOvr
HOw much heat load is that? I guess not 240w, and the evap is almost at -25c ..

Didnt Asetek tunned the LS for -25c @ 240w ... ???? :stick: :confused:



:rolleyes:

mm, but the temps is going to stay at -25 all the way to 240W :p:

[Marquzz]

Originally posted by pkrew
The best price I found on the LS was $828. They're usually $878. The GT is selling for $1250 at kit-tronics w/o the AL kit. The AL kit is $150. I suppose thats how he got $1400. The LS comes stock in AL. The other issue I suppose would be the cpu kit which the LS has both and only one with the GT. The extra kit cost about $100

Guess that nventive is much more cheaper here in Europe then, lucky us :)

[pkrew]

Looks that way. Lucky you guys. Pretty big price diffierence here. Hard for me to justify the cost of an LS let alone what would amount to $1500 for the GT.

[comment]

I've also run some test on my Vapo LS in this thread (http://forum.vapochill.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6262) over at Asetek's fourm.

What I find amazing is that my results show that the LS is very good at holding the evap temp going from idle to load, the difference being only about 3°C! That's simply impressive.

But I must say that I'm impressed also with the cooling capacity of the Mach II GT, as shown here. Looking forward to be seeing Part Two petervandamned :thumbsup:

Btw: Plz include som evap temps in Part Two (for the LS don't use the WinCC readings as it shows temps 4°C too high).

[Gamer]

nice one Peter.

[twilius_basic]

Originally posted by charlie
Since Asetek claims the LS functions better with higher heatloads, let me make a suggestion:
When I ran my Prescott 3.0E to 4609, the Dry Ice was sublimating as fast as I could add it to the tube. At 1.9V, the Prescott is a veritable inferno. SOOO, replace cool running 3.4C with a Pressie and see what happens :D Now THAT'S a torture test!!!!!!!

C

OMG 1.9v on Prescott! What mobo was that under? It had to have been about ready to explode and screaming for mercy! :explode: :devil:

[SAE]

Looking good, peter :D

I am saving up for a GT and I think I won't regret it... :)

Hope I get my mach1 repaired by nventiv soon (maybe I get it to work on a graphics card ;) ) as I only wait for instructions from their support :)

They're nice and already 've got my claim report (confirmed that) :D

[megahurtz-oc]

man i have to call bs on that -16 temp with the ls ive ran two differnt cpus on my ls 3.0c and a3.2ee full loaded after 2 hours my temp from a calibrated fluke was never warmer than -25c your test sounds alittle biased............

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
man i have to call bs on that -16 temp with the ls ive ran two differnt cpus on my ls 3.0c and a3.2ee full loaded after 2 hours my temp from a calibrated fluke was never warmer than -25c your test sounds alittle biased............
He is using the motherboard sensor though, there can be a big difference.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
man i have to call bs on that -16 temp with the ls ive ran two differnt cpus on my ls 3.0c and a3.2ee full loaded after 2 hours my temp from a calibrated fluke was never warmer than -25c your test sounds alittle biased............


Send me your Fluke and I'll check my temps. ;) I'm using the MB sensor right now.

[comment]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
man i have to call bs on that -16 temp with the ls ive ran two differnt cpus on my ls 3.0c and a3.2ee full loaded after 2 hours my temp from a calibrated fluke was never warmer than -25c your test sounds alittle biased............ Could you fill us in on the detailes of your testing megahurtz-oc?

[Soulburner]

Besides it can't be "biased" if he was using the same board for both tests. The only variable that changed was the cooler, so it doesn't even matter if the temps are wrong or not.

[Hawk]

Comment,

You are DeCay, Right?

If you have the Fluke setup, what is the temp your motherboard is reporting on the CPU?

I also ran the Prime95 Test as above with the Small FFT's and my load's are similar to the reviewers results. I wish I had a GT to test along side mine also.

[Assasin-uk]

Some interesting findings here....


Look out for the Official xtreme systems review on the front page coming soooon, an old pro will be doing the review.....;)

[Marquzz]

Coming soon? Hasn't it been out for a while now? Read it several hour ago...

[megahurtz-oc]

Originally posted by comment
Could you fill us in on the detailes of your testing megahurtz-oc?


i could fill you in but i hardley think anyone would take me serious in fact im pretty sure there would be some people that would try and discredit me and im not up for getting flamed today.

[tombman]

Hi guys..

Different question for nventiv (viggen?): has the cap tube been changed for the GT or is it just a refill with r404a?

And this one is for the guys that knows about danfoss compressors: is the SC18CL better or the SC18CLX?

Please help, because soon i will have a Mach I with one of those compressors modded into ;)

[megahurtz-oc]

as for the temp on my mobo sensor it ranges between -32 and
-22 under same load thats why i setup the fluke sensor directly under the cpu. who is decay? i have always gone by my current name.

[xsky]

Originally posted by comment
Btw: Plz include som evap temps in Part Two (for the LS don't use the WinCC readings as it shows temps 4°C too high). [/B]

Sure? I thought the value with WinCC running would be the accurate one.
I can't believe my Eva is currently -49c cold with a 1,45V Prescott in

[megahurtz-oc]

i dont use wincc as i have my usb ports all disabled.

[Lithan]

Originally posted by Marquzz
Guess that nventive is much more cheaper here in Europe then, lucky us :)

It's cause our dollar is a piece of crap right now. Makes me feel like a canadian. Four more years of Bush and I'll start speaking spanish and wearing a sombrero. Ole!

[OPPAINTER]

Nice comparison.

I like the Overclocking comparison.

That GT looks to be a much better overclocker in this Review, and judgeing by his temps it looks better then my 404a MachI.

Also, interesting that the LS can't overclock any higher then the ST.,, Bummer.

OPP

[megahurtz-oc]

man i feel sorry for the people that are going to save up money and buy a gt based off this reveiw. i smell somthing fishy. i could be wrong but, i smell a rat........ in the screenie of the 3.4 clocked @260fsb how come that super pi is so low...

[Shane5578]

i already see people who have mach2 ST's saying it has better performance compared to the vapo LS :p:

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Shane5578
i already see people who have mach2 ST's saying it has better performance compared to the vapo LS :p:

Is ST the same as Basic MachII as far as performance?

OPP

[`schr0et]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Is ST the same as Basic MachII as far as performance?

OPP

Yeah I recall someone posting here when they got their Mach II ST (the person lived in denmark)

He said same compressor, same evap, same everything just no LCD or USB.

`s

[Shane5578]

yes it should be- same compressor- same refrigerant, except without the evap temp sensors, LCD and fancontroller.

[megahurtz-oc]

Originally posted by Shane5578
i already see people who have mach2 ST's saying it has better performance compared to the vapo LS :p:

seriously? maybe the gt is better. i just find it hard to believe that a 3.4c running at a little over 4.g would get as warm -16c i would have beleived it if he said around -25. i just want honest and un biased reveiws.

[Shane5578]

we'll just have to wait for some proper reviews. preferably with the vapochill software disabled.:)

[Johnny Knoxvill]

looking forward to more reviews :banana:

[comment]

Originally posted by Hawk
Comment,

You are DeCay, Right?

If you have the Fluke setup, what is the temp your motherboard is reporting on the CPU?

I also ran the Prime95 Test as above with the Small FFT's and my load's are similar to the reviewers results. I wish I had a GT to test along side mine also. Yes I'm DeCay, and no I haven't got the Fluke setup - sorry.

[comment]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
i could fill you in but i hardley think anyone would take me serious in fact im pretty sure there would be some people that would try and discredit me and im not up for getting flamed today. You have some very nice temps, and I would really appreciate it if you'd share your info on the setup and conditions with us all. Plz :)

Btw: I don't think you'll get flamed.

[SimGuy]

Couple of questions for the Vapo LS owner:

1) As a guess, how noisy is the compressor of the LS? AFAIK, the cooling fans run at 35 dBa, but in general, how noisy is the compressor when running?

2) Is the Vapochill LS available with a "black" aluminum kit, or are they only available in silver?

Definately looking forward to part II of this review :)

[comment]

Originally posted by xsky
Sure? I thought the value with WinCC running would be the accurate one.
I can't believe my Eva is currently -49c cold with a 1,45V Prescott in Nope, not sure (Asetek hasn't responded on which temp is the most reliable) but the WinCC on my system is very buggy, so I expected it to be imprecise on the evap temp also.

But I have to admit that your evap temp is very low and in all probability isn't that good :( :D

[comment]

Originally posted by SimGuy
Couple of questions for the Vapo LS owner:

1) As a guess, how noisy is the compressor of the LS? AFAIK, the cooling fans run at 35 dBa, but in general, how noisy is the compressor when running?

2) Is the Vapochill LS available with a "black" aluminum kit, or are they only available in silver?

Definately looking forward to part II of this review :) The compressor is as noisy as a heavy duty fridge at the local supermart.

It's loud, and I'm considering how to silence the unit somewhat.

The LS doesn't come with a black alu kit as yet.

[petervandamned]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
man i feel sorry for the people that are going to save up money and buy a gt based off this reveiw. i smell somthing fishy. i could be wrong but, i smell a rat........ in the screenie of the 3.4 clocked @260fsb how come that super pi is so low...

simple Just used only one memory :)

so in part 2 i will use my Mach II @ 507 and maybe my Mach I @ 507.

As a tester for a dutch magazine we have some rulez about this kind of work. Normaly i am used to write in Dutch. But i hope i can do some more of this kind of review in the future to let you people see how things are done in The Netherlands :)

Lets hope my new Nikon D70 will arrive soon so i can make nice pics for U. But delivery times are a :soap:

[SAE]

That's gonna be very interesting :D

Hmm... in Dutch-only the article would be withheld from all English speaking/reading/understanding users and that means a lot ;)

And of course we wanna know how it's ending :D

[xsky]

what was your ambient tmeperature in the test?
i'm pretty sure in a room with more than ~25c the ST with R134A would beat the R507 Compressor.
I'm running a LS here. the difference between 23c and 26c in the room will cause more than 10c on the cpu.

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by xsky
what was your ambient tmeperature in the test?
i'm pretty sure in a room with more than ~25c the ST with R134A would beat the R507 Compressor.
I'm running a LS here. the difference between 23c and 26c in the room will cause more than 10c on the cpu.

Ouch, 3 deg C diff in ambient makes that much diference.

My R404a modded Mach I hardly changes temps from summer (30+ deg C ambient, to winter 16 deg C ambient)

[xsky]

forget what I said. I've some trouble with my vapo house. I pushed it a little inside the case, there was a little click (which made me more than nervous :D ) But it seems to have corrected something:

[EmineM]

I was the first or one of the first with a mach II ST ;)

It is the same refrigerant, same compressor. One thing I noticed is that the boot up sequence was shortened so the system did not need so long to reach -40°C like the original Mach II.

The ST is optimal for people who cannot afford a GT or so, the only thing you dont really have is a LCD :) I dont miss anything else.

sold it a week ago, preparing for my GT on tuesday ^^

[brwmogazos]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
man i feel sorry for the people that are going to save up money and buy a gt based off this reveiw. i smell somthing fishy. i could be wrong but, i smell a rat........ in the screenie of the 3.4 clocked @260fsb how come that super pi is so low...

well personally i feel sorry for the people that bought the LS right away and started to notice now that the GT wipes the floor off the LS...

When spending £550 for a phase change unit it doesnt make a difference spending an extra £90 to get the best performer cos you WANT THE BEST.

the GT was able overclock WAY higher than the LS and thats a HUGE difference for 2 units which i was hoping that would battle side by side for pos no 1...

Yes we should wait for bowmans review etc to see exactly what their performance difference is but i cant see why everyone who bought(or not) the LS started moaning about the GTs price etc.If everyone was so concerned about the prices they wouldnt have gone with the LS but with the mach 2 ST which is £200 cheaper...

Personally i dont care about the alu kit of the LS.It doesnt come in black so it wouldnt go nicely with my atcs 201 black widow...so i would have had to get a new case(£££) and cut it again...
On the other hand the mach 2 comes in black which has the same width than my atcs and i dont think it looks bad, but thats just me so no i aint spending £80 for the black alu kit myself.

+ the LS is so noisy that i wouldnt be able to leave it 30 cm away from my ears on top of my desk as i did with my mach 2 and will do with my GT next week.Perhaps everyone with the LS has moved their pc in the room next door ?

Oh and something last, i really wanna see how accurate the temps and the LS performance really is compared to their published charts-graphs etc...cos they were the ones complaining about the nventivs temps...and if they are not accurate then what can i say...

:stick:

[megahurtz-oc]

ls compressor isnt loud and yes mine is within 3 feet of me. all i have to say is im very happy with my ls. but to each his own. im sure all the units will get the job done at the end of the day.

[brwmogazos]

Indeed, i just wouldnt be able to cope with a noisy unit 30cm or even 2 meters away from my ears...

weve all been there with noisy aircooled rigs...i believe everyone likes "silence" though better.

[Ragnarok]

I also want to know why there's such a huge discrepancy between the GT and LS.. it shouldnt exist if the specifications of the LS are accurate... if u ask me, Asetek are up to their old tricks of bs... just like the waterchill...

[Jeff]

Originally posted by megahurtz-oc
ls compressor isnt loud and yes mine is within 3 feet of me. all i have to say is im very happy with my ls. but to each his own. im sure all the units will get the job done at the end of the day.

It's funny... in accusing the original reviewer of being biased and then continuing to post your pro-LS views... you appear to be the biased one. :lol:

Not a flame... just an observation. :toast:

I'm curious to see how the R507'd Mach1 stacks up with this lot. :up:

[megahurtz-oc]

not biased just my own experience. i think that if you dont have an ls,st,gt....... you should go post in the air cooled room. my compressor is not that loud at 3 feet from me. if you want ill go get some test equipment from the lab and give you an precise decibal reading.......? man i could care less whats better ls or gt i just hate misinformation. i have clearly posted with my own exp. this is exactly why i dont post more of my own results i guess if you truly want to know which product is better go buy them both. peace and im out of this thread no good can come of it now.

[Jeff]

Chill out a little. :toast: Just go play with your LS and don't worry about all this. :lol:

I think the fact you're missing is that he did all these pseudo-tests on the same motherboard with the same processor and the same everything else. The only thing he changed was the cooling methods. Even if the LS temperature is off by +10c... that means every other cooler is off by +10c so the comparisons are still valid. You see? :confused:

It's a Saturday... you have a great cooler... now just go have a :toast: and enjoy it. :up:

[pkrew]

I looked at the ST and thought about picking it up. The bare kit was $710 in the US. Not a bad price really for proven performance. I picked up the LS for several reasons. One I figured it would be on par or slightly better then the mach II/ST. Second I plan on picking up an A64 and along with my Intel cpus I would have had to buy an extra cpu kit for the ST. That brought the price within $30 of each other. For the $30 I get the LCD, USB, and AL kit. The LS, frankly, is still a better deal. Second, this being my first phase change, it seemed that the mounting system of the LS was a little more user friendly. Third, I wasn't sure if I was going to feel at the end that it was worth even the money for the LS for the extra cpu speed.

Do I regret not waiting for the GT. Hardly, I already knew it would be better and frankly, considering this is my first experiment into phase change, wasn't remotely interested in spending the extra $500.

Do I care that that GT is better. No. It doesn't bother me a bit. If I really get into phase change and want to ge the best, I can buy one later and use the LS to cool my gpu or pick up a mach I or mach II and mod it. Which may be a better deal anyway.

Am I concerned about the noise. Sure and I'll find out just how bad it is when my back gets better and I can hook this monster up. But from what I've read the 35db with be a blessing compaired to the twin tornados I have runnig now.

[xsky]

I have to agree with megahurtz that all LS results so far I've seen (including my own) are better than the reviewers.
It took me some days to make it cool as I wanted (maybe you saw my pic few posts before) and now i'm satisfied.

Of course: It's Asetek's fault when the LS doesn't work properly instantly. No doubt about that. I'm still not sure why my results are so depent on the hose's position.
My rear fan is running at 100% so I don't hear the compressor. As it's getting warmer I'm afraid the comp might overheat as it's very hot

I'm not interested in convincing anyone the LS is the best choice at all (why should I?). But a loaded Prescott @-37c on the same MoBo the reviewer uses and high ambient temps (~27c) is something I wanted to let you know.

I really wonder why these discussions about Asetek/Nventiv, Ati/Nvidia and Intel/AMD are often so emotional. Most of are not payed by these companies.
It's alway like talking about sports :D

And as Jeff said I'll go and have some :toast: now ;)

[The Stilt]

Originally posted by xsky
I'm not interested in convincing anyone the LS is the best choice at all (why should I?). But a loaded Prescott @-37c on the same MoBo the reviewer uses and high ambient temps (~27c) is something I wanted to let you know.


Loaded prescott at -37 my ass :rolleyes:
Charlie ran his prescott at 4.6GHz with dryice and temps were -15c under load. So your Vapo LS can remove over twice as much heat as dryice can?

[pkrew]

That does seem to be a bit off. Maybe the oc was lower with lower vcore.

[Soulburner]

4600+mhz at 1.9v on a Prescott is getting pretty damn hot. I doubt the one under the LS was running at the same specs.

[SAE]

Originally posted by Soulburner
4600+mhz at 1.9v on a Prescott is getting pretty damn hot. I doubt the one under the LS was running at the same specs.

Yeah. I second that. I doubt his prescott is even able to run 4,6G with this cooling ;)

[zabomb4163]

Originally posted by JCviggen
Absolutely :toast:

Well, it is extremely unlikely if not impossible that mainstream desktop processors will ever disspate 200W, because such heat cannot possible be removed by conventional means. High performance ICs are a vague discription, too.




http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040111115528.html

There are indications over AnandTech saying that 10 of Intel’s close partners in Taiwan have already received engineering samples of Intel Tejas microprocessors. Apparently, the chips function at only 2.80GHz and dissipate around 150W of heat

150watts @ 2.8ghz
(4ghz/2.8ghz)*150 = 214watts of heat

thats assuming no voltage increases. so yes i do believe we will have processors dissipating 200watts of heat.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Sep/bch20030926021949.htm

According to The Inquirer, the CPU will be called the Pentium 5, will operate at between 5 and 7GHz, and will have 2 MB of L2 cache

[pkrew]

Originally posted by SAE
Yeah. I second that. I doubt his prescott is even able to run 4,6G with this cooling ;)

Seems unlikely considering FUGGER had to use a cascade to bench at 4.7G. But you never know he could have a better clocking chip.

[xsky]

Originally posted by The Stilt
Loaded prescott at -37 my ass :rolleyes:
Charlie ran his prescott at 4.6GHz with dryice and temps were -15c under load. So your Vapo LS can remove over twice as much heat as dryice can?

Lol no it was a Prescott at default Speed and Voltage (due to droopmod something like 1,42V)
The prescott is able to run ~4,4ghz@1,65V for SuperPi only. I'll try to load this voltage later

[Nico]

Originally posted by xsky
Lol no it was a Prescott at default Speed and Voltage (due to droopmod something like 1,42V)
The prescott is able to run ~4,4ghz@1,65V for SuperPi only. I'll try to load this voltage later

Give us a comparative reading at 4.016/1.65v

Also I don't believe even Teja's processors will be release until the work heat output is down considerably. If we see 150w released I'll be very suprised, maybe in two or three years, but they will have better coolers then too!

[SAE]

Originally posted by pkrew
Seems unlikely considering FUGGER had to use a cascade to bench at 4.7G. But you never know he could have a better clocking chip.

No. Definately not. FUGGER always gets the best chips from intel ;) :D

[Nico]

Originally posted by xsky
.
I'm still not sure why my results are so depent on the hose's position.


How have you changed the hose position to improve results?

[comment]

Originally posted by Nico
How have you changed the hose position to improve results? I'm listening:exclamati :)

[xsky]

I installed everything in the PC60 on the LS case. The hose is a bit to long and so it doesn't really fit inside the case.
yesterday i tried to install the sidepanel and therefore the hose was pressed inside the case. and that made a huge temp difference. now I get ~-51c
At the moment I'm testing how to make it hold high heat loads.

[Master_G]

Originally posted by The Stilt
Charlie ran his prescott at 4.6GHz with dryice and temps were -15c under load. So your Vapo LS can remove over twice as much heat as dryice can?
Umm, am i the only one that cant see where xsky said anything about 4.6GHz? Didnt he say "loaded Prescott" by not name a speed? Jumping to conclusions here?:confused:

G

[Hawk]

I swapped my 3.4C to the 2.8 Prescott and here are my results. I cannot get this chip any faster then 275FSB. Here are the temps and Prime95 running as in the previous tests for comparision.

[pkrew]

Very nice, have you tried increasing the vcore to get a higher oc?

[Hawk]

Originally posted by pkrew
Very nice, have you tried increasing the vcore to get a higher oc?



Yep,

I can boot to 292FSB, but I cannot get windows to load. I tried every value in the BIOS for the VCORE.:confused: Maybe that is all the chip has? ? ?

[SAE]

Originally posted by Hawk
Yep,

I can boot to 292FSB, but I cannot get windows to load. I tried every value in the BIOS for the VCORE.:confused: Maybe that is all the chip has? ? ?

Maybe it's APIC???

[Ragnarok]

P4 tends to go beserk if u turn off APIC

[pkrew]

Originally posted by Hawk
Yep,

I can boot to 292FSB, but I cannot get windows to load. I tried every value in the BIOS for the VCORE.:confused: Maybe that is all the chip has? ? ?

Never tried a presscott, but it does seem like you have maxed out that particular chip.

[phobix]

Will the LS work with a K7? Right now I am leaning towards the MachII ST, but the mounting kits can get rather expensive.

[ant1]

Could you run that Prescott @3.8 with 1.55 vcore for one Prime session? I am curious about the temps @ 150W heat dissipation.

[xsky]

here are some results with higher loads.
prescott really kills the mobo. the voltage is getting lower and lower. nevertheless 1,58V is still enough for the 90nm core.

do not look to much at the evap temps of LS. i guess my fluctuations came due to pressure on the temp sensor. might be something different as well.

[ant1]

sweet -15°C @ 150-160W.

E: why does cpu-z say 3.9ghz and mbm 4ghz?

[SAE]

Originally posted by ant1
E: why does cpu-z say 3.9ghz and mbm 4ghz?

MBM is not very accurate reading out cpu speed, esp. under load... :D

[xsky]

I bootet at 4,15GHz; noticed this was not prime stable and went down to 3,99ghz.
MBM always shows the cpu speed at the program's start and doesn't change it while cpu-z shows the current speed correct

[OPPAINTER]

I ran alittle test on my MachII with Fx-53 yesterday.

I ran Prime with the CPU at 3Gigs with 1.85V on Asus SK8V.

My mbm CPU temps read 10c, I was measureing the Evap at the CPU and it went from -40 idle to -24c load, the Promy LED evap reading under load was -43c.

I'm supose to get one these LSs, it's hard to believe that it can't do better then that, but we'll see.

OPP

[EnJoY]

I think with a slightly lower ambient temp to cool that R507 compressor, you would get much lower temps. Also, I think nVentiv's evap temps are actually much closer to the Vapo's than they seem.

[Shane5578]

Originally posted by EnJoY
I think with a slightly lower ambient temp to cool that R507 compressor, you would get much lower temps. Also, I think nVentiv's evap temps are actually much closer to the Vapo's than they seem.

roomtemp hardly affects the vapo LS. my room temp goes up to +35c

i've also tested very low fan speeds, hardly any difference.

however when i tried some delta fans, i got better temps about -2c lower with no fluctations on the evap.

i find it hard to believe the mach2 ST is better.

from what i've seen from others the LS should better by about -7c on the mobo sensors. from a p4 with 1.75vcore.

i should also say that it vapo LS works better with alot of vcore.

i actually get worse evap temps at stock!!

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Shane5578


i should also say that it vapo LS works better with alot of vcore.



Yea I think it's tuned for a higher heat load which may change petervandamneds results.

OPP

[Ragnarok]

but i've never heard of a system turned for high load not being able to work with a low load...

u might get problems like liquid return , but that's kinda irrelevant in the case of the LS..

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
but i've never heard of a system turned for high load not being able to work with a low load...

u might get problems like liquid return , but that's kinda irrelevant in the case of the LS..

Well I do know you can under charge a system and get great temps at a low load, but if you apply a tougher load it will bury the thing.
You then add refidgerent to optimize it for the heavy load.
And next thing you know, the low load temps are not as good anymore.

OPP

[ant1]

Just ordered a LS. Let the benching begin :p

[charlie]

:thumbsup:

[SAE]

Originally posted by ant1
Just ordered a LS. Let the benching begin :p

Good luck. :)

[daos]

i would really love to see a 200+W load on the LS just for Asetek saying that they specifically tuned the LS for a higher heatload. as far as right here and now, my CPU only reaches 115W, so the GT looks alot more promising.

[isp]

Originally posted by brwmogazos
well personally i feel sorry for the people that bought the LS right away and started to notice now that the GT wipes the floor off the LS...

They're not meant to compete with each other, totally different pricetags...

[Naughtyboy]

Guys...how on earth do you change FFT in Prime95..??

I´m running v 22.12.1 ...and can´t find any option for it in the settings.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by Naughtyboy
Guys...how on earth do you change FFT in Prime95..??

I´m running v 22.12.1 ...and can´t find any option for it in the settings.



Download the latest version and when you select Torture Test, it's on the next screen. ;)

[Johnny Knoxvill]

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[ant1]

Originally posted by SAE
Good luck. :)
Thanks. All I need now is a new videocard cause my 9700pro is dying...giving me artifacts and polygon errors even at stock speed. :(

[SAE]

Originally posted by ant1
Thanks. All I need now is a new videocard cause my 9700pro is dying...giving me artifacts and polygon errors even at stock speed. :(

Yeah. I noticed a decrease in artifact-free overclocks too :(

My 9800p could once do 500 artifact free with 1,86V... now it's never free from snow there. But I can still do 474/374Mhz stock with Swiftech 80W tec block and warm water free from display corruption ;)

Hope that LS rocks for you :D

[phobix]

So help me out peeps... Based on your opinion here are my options:

MachII ST + Enlight case US$ 749.98 + Front LCD US$ 89.70 Total USD $838

Or

Vapochill LS USD $1,049.98

Which one should I take? I am leaning towards the Mach II cooling performance between the 2 based upon this thread seems very similar.

[Frank E. BoNeS]

Originally posted by phobix
Vapochill LS USD $1,049.98


Where are you getting that price??...Its USD $876.75 at Kit-Tronics (http://www.kit-tronics.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=3079&cat=&page=&xid=0827dc6fa362939574f563da0a33503b).

[Ragnarok]

what sort of load difference are we talking about here Opp? prob something around 50Ws?

I still dont think the load itself will make much difference, rather the unit itself..

[phobix]

Originally posted by Frank E. BoNeS
Where are you getting that price??...Its USD $876.75 at Kit-Tronics (http://www.kit-tronics.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=3079&cat=&page=&xid=0827dc6fa362939574f563da0a33503b).

Actually it was at kittronics but including the case. I guess it is probably better if I take it without the case hey... Just don't want a frankenstein looking rig...

[pkrew]

epowerhousepc.com is selling the LS for $828. Not sure thay have any more in stock, but that was the lowest price that I found. Fast shiping as well.

Finally have mine up and running with a 2.8C at 295 fsb. Haven't been able to get the control panel loaded atm, but working on it. vcore is 1.85 in the bios and the evaphead is showing -47 degrees at idle.

loaded window fine at 300 fsb, but when I rebooted the bios went to default. Strange. The nb was getting pretty hot and may have been part of the problem. I replaced the stock nb with a swifty and the bios problem seems to have gotten better. I'll try using clock gen. that might help as well. New territory for me being at that high of fsb

[EmineM]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Well I do know you can under charge a system and get great temps at a low load, but if you apply a tougher load it will bury the thing.
You then add refidgerent to optimize it for the heavy load.
And next thing you know, the low load temps are not as good anymore.

OPP

Hmm so basically you are saying the LS would perform better if the CPU gets hotter?
current cpu's dont have alot of heat load, a A64 3400+ at 1.9v and 3 ghz gives out around 172 watt. I wonder why asetek was thinking. Not everyone has a EE that would give off around 200 watt at 4,2 ghz with 1.83v

If so , for what heatload is the LS tuned for?

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by EmineM
Hmm so basically you are saying the LS would perform better if the CPU gets hotter?


I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying that if it's optimised for a heavier load then there is a chance it will handle it better then the MachII.

OPP

[comment]

Originally posted by pkrew
Finally have mine up and running with a 2.8C at 295 fsb. Haven't been able to get the control panel loaded atm, but working on it. vcore is 1.85 in the bios and the evaphead is showing -47 degrees at idle. At what ambient temp and fan speeds did you get -47°? And do you have any seething coming from the compressor accompanied by a rise in evap temp?

To give you a picture of what I mean, take a look at this idle screenshot. I ran the idle test for app. 2 hours, at 100% fan speeds and at an ambient temp 14°C dropping to 10°C over the test period.

[EmineM]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying that if it's optimised for a heavier load then there is a chance it will handle it better then the MachII.

OPP

k, but which mach II, the original or the gt

[pkrew]

Originally posted by comment
At what ambient temp and fan speeds did you get -47°? And do you have any seething coming from the compressor accompanied by a rise in evap temp?



The ambient is probably around 60-65 F. I'm not hooked up the control center so I'm not sure about the fan speed, but I suspect its at default or 75%. The evap temp stays pretty constant varying about 1-2 C. I don't hear anything I'd call seething. I hear what I'd call gurgling or like water dripping. Other than that all I hear are the fans. When I hook up to the usb I'll look and see what I'm getting.

[Formann]

Originally posted by EmineM
Hmm so basically you are saying the LS would perform better if the CPU gets hotter?
If so , for what heatload is the LS tuned for?

If the unit is tweaked for 240-250w of heatload, the evap may be flooded with coolant with only 130-150w heatload applied. If its too flooded the coolant wont have time to evaporate which again leeds to worse performance/higher temps.
Doing this sounds a little risky, cause unevaporated coolant might return to the compressor and shorten the lifetime of it.

Im far from an expert on the subject, but from what I have understood this is how it is. Right or wrong.. it sounds reasonable to me.

[Merenfreak]

Here are mine Temps on an P4 3,4 EE @ high load/idle with high voltage...

Well, i have running Prime AND CPUBurn at the same time. This gives you the maximum heat on a P4 and i am pretty impressed with the Load Temps of the LS.

[Ragnarok]

i think asetek is smart enough to put in an accumulator...

[Merenfreak]

Idle :

[Merenfreak]

Load :

[Shane5578]

well when the vapo is suddenly loaded, temps also increase suddenly. but it will RECOVER quickly with lower stable temps.

[ricjax99]

Merenfreak, like i pointed out earlier in this thread, the 1024K Prime FFT's do NOT generate as much heat as smaller 8-10K FFT's due to the fact 1024K's are done by memory whereas the smaller ones fit in the chips level 2 cache and gererate more stress and therefore heat.

:rolleyes:

[Merenfreak]

Merenfreak, like i pointed out earlier in this thread, the 1024K Prime FFT's do NOT generate as much heat as smaller 8-10K FFT's due to the fact 1024K's are done by memory whereas the smaller ones fit in the chips level 2 cache and gererate more stress and therefore heat.

Yeah, but CPU Burn does ;)
Try it out, it will give you more heat then the 8-10 FT .

cya

[Nico]

I think some tests with an A64 would be the next step, hopefully nearer 3ghz/2.00v. At some point the LS will or shouldgap the MachII/MachII ST, and likely approach the MachII GT.
It may only come into it's own with the very best processors reaching the highest clocks on big voltage. It has to break the MachII's capacity as Opp suggested. It might be quite hard to do an require a rare processor to achieve.

[comment]

Originally posted by Formann
If the unit is tweaked for 240-250w of heatload, the evap may be flooded with coolant with only 130-150w heatload applied. If its too flooded the coolant wont have time to evaporate which again leeds to worse performance/higher temps.
Doing this sounds a little risky, cause unevaporated coolant might return to the compressor and shorten the lifetime of it.

Im far from an expert on the subject, but from what I have understood this is how it is. Right or wrong.. it sounds reasonable to me. The coolant returning to the compressor, could that result in the seething I'm hearing? And the rise in evap temp?

[EDIT]: What's your ambient temp?

[Nico]

Originally posted by comment
The coolant returning to the compressor, could that result in the seething I'm hearing? And the rise in evap temp?

Possibly some off those weird noises could be :confused:. If you have had the sides off, is the compressor freezing up at the return line ?

[xsky]

Originally posted by Nico
Possibly some off those weird noises could be :confused:. If you have had the sides off, is the compressor freezing up at the return line ?

That remindsme of the most most annoying thing about my LS so far:

Remove the sides and your warranty is lost :mad: :mad:

[Ragnarok]

u r kidding me.....

wtf?!

[`schr0et]

thats kind of interesting..

[pkrew]

Unfortunately true, you can remove the front panel, but not the side panels.

[Ragnarok]

honestly, that's just stupid...

Its like Corsair and OCZ selling ram to overclockers, but requiring a professional technican to install them.. .

Is there some sort of seal on the panels?

[asetek Inc.]

There is no reason to open the box unless you want to alter something. If you alter or mod something - for instance the charge of refrigerant the warranty will be voided anyway. Just like all other compressor based systems on the market.

We have placed all relevant electronics and cabling inside the PC case instead of the inside cooling unit. Because of this, there is really no reason to open the unit. The unit is clearly marked not to open it, and there are stickers inside the unit as well.

Not really different from other hardware - for instance a HDD. The primary reason for this is, that we KNOW you like to tweak - no problem :) You just have to take responsibility as we also KNOW from epxerience, that people like to mess around with wires etc. As there is 115/230VAC inside the unit, it is extrelemely dangerous for people that do not know what they are messing with.

Therefore - from a legal point of view, we have done it this way. In other words - if a person gets killed or damaged due to electrical shock form our unit, we know that the box was opened, and it is out of our hands.

As stated previously - recharging the unit, changing electronics etc. will void the warranty anyway. And as we are sure you are aware of (and can see through the holes in the panels) there is really no black magic in there ;) A compressor, two fans, a radiator and some electronics.

[Ragnarok]

what about maintance of the unit overtime? cleaning out dust which can collect on the condensor and degrade performance?..

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
what about maintance of the unit overtime? cleaning out dust which can collect on the condensor and degrade performance?..

Yep id like to here an offical answer to that even though i dont own one. Ragnarok has a prefectly valid point ;)

[Anarki]

I have to agree, dust is a major pain in the a$$ and surely if you wanted to keep the unit clean and optimal you would have to take off the sides.

Or would you have to send it back for the "professionals" to do it?

Anarki.

[Nico]

Personally I would like to be able to take the side panels off with warranty intact, but I don't think Nventiv's intentions are much different. The following is a quote from the Lian Li Alu-kit instructions,

"Caution! This instruction guide is for authorised personal only, inorder to guide through the installation process of the Lian-Li kit.
Private individuals may under no circumstances take off the side panels; the cooling unit contains main circuitries which are accessible when the side panels are removed"



may under no circumstances take off the side panels sounds to me like any evidence could support a voided warranty if you don't have a Lian Li kit installed, and it was done by an Authorised person :2cents: ;)

[The Stilt]

Just cut the Vapo LS case open with one of these (http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalog/SSE_1000_SQ_MILW.JPG). Asetek guys just said that warranty is voided if case is opened, nothing about cutting it all open :D

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by The Stilt
Just cut the Vapo LS case open with one of these (http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalog/SSE_1000_SQ_MILW.JPG). Asetek guys just said that warranty is voided if case is opened, nothing about cutting it all open :D

:ROTF: Own3d :D

[Anarki]

http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalog/SSE_1000_SQ_MILW.JPG

Looks like it could work :wierd:

[asetek Inc.]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
what about maintance of the unit overtime? cleaning out dust which can collect on the condensor and degrade performance?..

Good point - and that is why you can remove the front panel and get access to the condensor for cleaning purposes WITHOUT loosing warranty :D

[Formann]

Originally posted by The Stilt
Just cut the Vapo LS case open with one of these (http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalog/SSE_1000_SQ_MILW.JPG). Asetek guys just said that warranty is voided if case is opened, nothing about cutting it all open :D


Yeah.. i say we make those holes a "little" bigger. :D


Asetek: What is your response to this?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33797

-11c @ 100w is worse than Vapochill PE .. or classic for that matter. Wrong numbers i hope..

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Formann


-11c @ 100w is worse than Vapochill PE .. or classic for that matter. Wrong numbers i hope..


A Vapochill PE would never get -11C on the CPU, it would be positive core temps at 100W.
From what I can see the "dummy CPU temp" is -11, the evap surface is much colder.

[Formann]

Originally posted by JCviggen
A Vapochill PE would never get -11C on the CPU, it would be positive core temps at 100W.
From what I can see the "dummy CPU temp" is -11, the evap surface is much colder.

Of course.. somehow i tought the "Test Vehicle" was the measured evap surface temp.


LS with 190w heatload. Evap -26c .. cpu +5.3c ... Difference is 31c ..

Mk2 GT 190w heatload. Evap -36c .. cpu -14.7c ... Difference is 21c


Poor contact between evap and dummy on the LS, or just bad evap?

[asetek Inc.]

Originally posted by Formann
Yeah.. i say we make those holes a "little" bigger. :D


Asetek: What is your response to this?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33797

-11c @ 100w is worse than Vapochill PE .. or classic for that matter. Wrong numbers i hope..

This guy has to drop the crack pipe. We have no review action going on with them, why we of course not would ever try to comment on it either. If he states that we have, he should be able to post the reply from us I guess?!?

They made a WaterChill review, where they used results "borrowed" from another site. We told them to drop that.

without saying too much, these results seems a "bit" strange.... With regard to the scheme they made, it does not seem to include figures from any of our products ?!?

There have never been any reason to doubt the performance graphs and temperatures we claim. This is no different with the LS.

[phobix]

FYI peeps,

I just sent the reviewer an email asking him to explain in further detail his testing methodology. I'll keep you posted on the response.

[xsky]

From what I can tell my VapoLS follows the performance chart (+-2c because of room temp) if my estimations are correct:
prescott 3,4ghz 1,4V -> 103W
prescott 4,0ghz 1,62V -> 155W
The first days I had problems with the unit but now it works very decently.

I've got a P4E 3ghz, P4C800-E and things like superPi and Prime here + a vdroop mod.
if you want to see some specific results from my rig tell me and I'll try. maybe a machII+P4E user shows up so we can compare (my room is 23-26c warm)
P.S. my max Voltage is ~1,65V and from what I feel the Mobo won't last to long with this voltage. So choose short tests (10min)

[pkrew]

I wouldn't put much stock in that review. The numbers are pretty far off for the LS for the entire test. I suspect that this guy has an ax to grind.

[pkrew]

One thing that I have noticed that interesting is that the evap temp decreases by 6-8 degrees if you turn on the usb connection. It also seems to affect cpu temp. I ran small FFT's on prime at 290 fsb on a 2.8mo at 1.85v in the bios, 1.88v in mbm, and with the CC on the temp was -15C. With it off it was -18C. Sandra estimates this as 177 watts. I'm not sure how accurate that is. How do you calculate the wattage.

[asetek Inc.]

It should not really affect the CPU temperature, as there is no built in stress test :D

However the reason for the difference on the display, is that with the software / USB connection disabled the temperature is calculated by the processor on the ChillControl. With everything enabled, the temperature is calculated by the VapoChill Control Panel, which is more accurate (as described in the manual).

Pleas confirm if it really does affect the CPU temperature, and if so please return a feedback in our USB control panel forum, and we will have a SW engineer to look at it.

[pkrew]

makes sense, but it did seem to make a difference. I'll check and run more tests

[phobix]

@pkrew

Use the following tool to calculate overclocked watttage

http://www.benchtest.com/calc.html

[pkrew]

Thanks, according to that page it was 190 watts. Seems a little high, but not bad, -15 to -18, at 190w loaded with small FFT's. I've put in my 3.0 atm and have it running at about 280fsb. Looks like its time for a new cpu. I hate this 5/4 stuff.

[SAE]

Originally posted by phobix
@pkrew

Use the following tool to calculate overclocked watttage

http://www.benchtest.com/calc.html

Whoohoooo. When using a barton at 2.2V and 3Gig you'll have a max heat of 200W :D

My config with 2,87Gig and 1,97V has 152Watts ;) (mach1 must have been at it's max ;) )

[phobix]

Originally posted by pkrew
Thanks, according to that page it was 190 watts. Seems a little high, but not bad, -15 to -18, at 190w loaded with small FFT's. I've put in my 3.0 atm and have it running at about 280fsb. Looks like its time for a new cpu. I hate this 5/4 stuff.

Don't forget that P4's have TCC (thermal throtling control) which means you will never probably reach the full 190w. Some people have noted peculiar reaction with TCC under sub-ambient cooling situations with P4'S... May want to check the forums over at asetek for more info if you are interested..

[pkrew]

I'll check it out. Thanks phobix

[pkrew]

Originally posted by SAE
Whoohoooo. When using a barton at 2.2V and 3Gig you'll have a max heat of 200W :D

My config with 2,87Gig and 1,97V has 152Watts ;) (mach1 must have been at it's max ;) )

Interesting. Dont know much about this, but if that's accurate then Asetek may have been closer than stated earlier.

[SAE]

Yeah. The Bartons are getting really hot :D

It's art ocing them so high and stable with high fsb clocks ;)

[PMM]

erm can someone explain how these figure are obtained :confused:

its breaking my normal knowledge of physics here

i.e. if my processor is 68.3w @ 1.65vcore
then i have a load resistance of about 0.04ohms

on this basis that resistance is constant when scaled up
to 2.1v we are using 110watts

surly the frequency cannot change the underlaying basic
properties of a transistor circuit?

is the power rating of a chip classed as 100% on or rated as
pulsed ? seems strange if its pulsed considering that the chip
takes serverel approches to design and power requirements.

/edit and think if it were pulse what's the diff in 1000mhz or
2000mhz if the on and off pulse are the same duruation on
ultimate time a slower speed will have a longer pulse a faster
speed a shorter pulse but if its all 01010101 then the chip is
surley using the same 50/50 consumption.

anyone care to correct me / show me the light because its confused me now.

[phobix]

I am far from a physics major... But thermal dissipation does not scale linearly, this is where Sandra's calc is flawed. If we were to increase voltage and stay at the same clockspeed then yes. But too my limited knowledge clockspeed plays a major role, perhaps someone here can elaborate more.

[CodeRed]

In the simplest possible terms a CMOS chips has two main components to the power dissipation
1. Static power dissipation due to leakage currents (mainly via the substrate). This is like a resistor, it scales with voltage.

2. Dynamic power dissipation due to the capacitance of lines, etc etc. This scales with frequency and voltage.

Since we dont know the breakdown the between dynamic and static power dissipation of these chips its hard to get a a true figure when scaled up. You could run the CPU with the clock disabled (so long as it doesnt use dynamic logic) and measure the power, this will approximate the static power consumption.


Anyway

P = (Ps + Pd * Fclock / Fclockref) * (Vcore / Vcoreref) ^ 2

where
Ps = static power consumption at reference core voltage Vcoreref
Pd = Dynamic power consumption at reference core voltage Vcoreref and reference CPU clock Fclockref.

Of course then there is significant power drawn for the I/O pins which will scale with teh I/O speed (FSB) and I/O voltages.


Just use the following for a rough approximation
P = (P0 * Fclock / Fclockref) * (Vcore / Vcoreref) ^ 2

where P0 = total power consumption at stocks speed and voltage

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by phobix
@pkrew

Use the following tool to calculate overclocked watttage

http://www.benchtest.com/calc.html



One thing to keep in mind though, generally speaking you never get even close to the theoretical wattages, as I noticed. Maybe 70% of that....

If the wattage calculator says 200W maybe you will reach 140-150 actual when doing prime and CPU burn in ACTUAL output.

Its often much less heat being put out that you think :)

[eva2000]

when sandra burnin cpu runs it shows a cpu wattage... how close/accurate would that be ?

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by eva2000
when sandra burnin cpu runs it shows a cpu wattage... how close/accurate would that be ?

not close at all. it just takes a guess based on speed, voltage and the core type. Its probably about the same as when you calculate it on the above formula. Its a theoretical maximum.

[Formann]

Heres a calc that diplays normal output aswell max teroretical output.

http://www.ocshoot.no/cpuheat.htm

Its in norwegian, but im sure you´ll understand. Just choose CPU on the top, then fill inn overclocked cpu-speed and voltage. Then press "Kalkuler"

It hasn´t been updated for a while, but I´ll se what I can do. It lacks the A64´s and the preshots.

IE.
Barton - 2870Mhz @ 1.97v - Normal output 134.4w - Max Teoretical output 152.7w

P4 2.5 - 4150Mhz @ 1.9v - Normal output 183.1 - Max Teoretical output 208w :stick: Damn.. then imagine the prescott @ 4.5Ghz.

[SAE]

Originally posted by Formann
IE.
Barton - 2870Mhz @ 1.97v - Normal output 134.4w - Max Teoretical output 152.7w

P4 2.5 - 4150Mhz @ 1.9v - Normal output 183.1 - Max Teoretical output 208w :stick: Damn.. then imagine the prescott @ 4.5Ghz.

That's more realistic :)

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by Formann
Heres a calc that diplays normal output aswell max teroretical output.

http://www.ocshoot.no/cpuheat.htm

Its in norwegian, but im sure you´ll understand. Just choose CPU on the top, then fill inn overclocked cpu-speed and voltage. Then press "Kalkuler"

It hasn´t been updated for a while, but I´ll se what I can do. It lacks the A64´s and the preshots.

IE.
Barton - 2870Mhz @ 1.97v - Normal output 134.4w - Max Teoretical output 152.7w

P4 2.5 - 4150Mhz @ 1.9v - Normal output 183.1 - Max Teoretical output 208w :stick: Damn.. then imagine the prescott @ 4.5Ghz.

On that site select 2800+ instead of 2500+ and the wattage same overclock becomes lower :confused:

[Ragnarok]

coz the calculation also takes into account the default speed..

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
coz the calculation also takes into account the default speed..

Eh, so if it follows true:

A Barton 2500+ running at 2400 MHz has a higher wattage than.....

A Barton 2800+ running at 2400 MHz. :confused:

So does it take into account the FSB increase it would take to get a 2500+/2800+ to 2400 MHz with its default multiplier?

As 2500+ would need 218x11 and the 2800+ would need only 192x12.5 hmm :confused:

Seems a bit odd thats all.

[Bridgeboy]

Originally posted by ricjax99
Eh, so if it follows true:

A Barton 2500+ running at 2400 MHz has a higher wattage than.....

A Barton 2800+ running at 2400 MHz. :confused:



I'm certainly no expert, but I have read that different versions of the same core architecture of a particular processor type are possible simply because the same processor rated at the higher speed architecture was fabricated either to higher tolerances, or, just came out of the fabrication process (with same tolerances used for 2500+ models) with better quality and is capable of higher clock speeds while still remaining stable. Therefore, being that the Barton 2800+ is rated higher than the 2500+ yet has the same core architecture, it probably means that the 2800+ can run cooler than the 2500+ at any given clock speed because it is simply a higher quality fabrication of the same chip.

This is just my own logic based on things I have read, however it may not be completely true in actuality. But it makes sense to me.

[zabomb4163]

Originally posted by JCviggen
not close at all. it just takes a guess based on speed, voltage and the core type. Its probably about the same as when you calculate it on the above formula. Its a theoretical maximum.

No offence JC, but i believe you may have confused the intel thermal guideline with the amd thermal guideline.

they are not equal. AMD list the theoretical maximum heat output of their processors whereas intel list the normal heatload of the processor and refuses to list the theoretical max heat output #'s.


http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/20092.pdf
Pmax is the maximum power consumption (in watts) of the


ftp://download.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/27371601.pdf

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by zabomb4163
No offence JC, but i believe you may have confused the intel thermal guideline with the amd thermal guideline.


Not at all :)

It is my experience that the actual output of the CPUs tends to be below what you would expect, wether its Intel or AMD. The numbers are always based on worse case scenarios it seems. And then some.

And as said earlier, some of these formulas dont add up. A 2500+ or 2800+ Barton have the same output at the same settings, because they are the same core (at least now they are) unlike what some formulas suggest.

Going by math, you could get a current CPU to deliver 200W. Well, from what i have seen, you realistically cant.

[Formann]

The thermal output should indeed be the same on a XP2500+ and a XP2800+ when running the same speed and vcore.

I cant remember where we got the formulas, but i will look in to it. The whole ting is a beta, but the calculations are reasonable, and shouldn´t be very far off.

[phobix]

Originally posted by JCviggen
[B
you could get a current CPU to deliver 200W. Well, from what i have seen, you realistically cant. [/B]

Ah but wait... Introducing Prescott, your all purpose furnace :D

[zabomb4163]

Originally posted by JCviggen
Not at all :)

A 2500+ or 2800+ Barton have the same output at the same settings, because they are the same core (at least now they are) unlike what some formulas suggest.



http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/26237.PDF

For 2500+ @ 3200+ (2200/1833) * 53.7 W = 64 W typical
* 68.3 W = 81.97490453

according to amd tech docs

3200+ Typical heat = 60.4 W
3200+ thermal max = 76.8 W

so 4 watts off on the typical and 6 on the max.

[CrashOv3r1De]

Great results! Thanks a lot for sharing. Im not in the boat for a new phase change cooler yet (still using my new mk2) but these results are really great for users who are planning on purchasing their 1st phase change unit. Looks like the noise/price will be thew biggest factor in the decisions.

JC the mk2 was estimated for $980usd why are people selling it for $1200+?

[aoc007]

So the Vapo LS is the noisiest of the three?

[`schr0et]

Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the noisiest of them all?

I dunno but if the LS can hold decent temps @ 200W+ (if thats even possible) then it seems like a decent investment for the future CPUs.

But for me at this moment... nah

`s

[petervandamned]

in part 2 i will add some avi's with sound

[interman]

any idea on the eta?

[petervandamned]

just waiting on a few parts for the testbank

[Çhrist0ph]

ok, i almost started a thread for my question, but why not ask it here?

if the vapochill lightspeed is charged/tuned/optimized for lower temps @ 240+ watt heatload, wouldnt pinching its cap tube help it getter better temps under todays loads(100-150watt,etc?)

if i know anything about refridgeration, isnt a system tuned for a high heatload have a lot of liquid refridgerant flooding the evap, waiting to be heated up/evapoarated by a huge heatload, but only finds a small heat load so most of the liquid refirdgerant just goes back barely evaporated? therefore, temps arent as good as they should be ?

[Ragnarok]

look, asetek/nventiv are smart enough to take care of the liquid return issue..

otherwise under CPU idle, u r gonna get heaps of liquid return..

the vapo LS is tuned for a higher load thing hence imo is a load of bull..

[comment]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
look, asetek/nventiv are smart enough to take care of the liquid return issue..

otherwise under CPU idle, u r gonna get heaps of liquid return.. If the liquid did return, would the result be seething coming from the compressor?

[Ragnarok]

well try compressing a liquid, all u gonna get is a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ed compressor :D

[comment]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
well try compressing a liquid, all u gonna get is a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ed compressor :D All right then. But what would seething from the compressor indicate?