New to OC'ing, please critique my plans, all thoughts are apprecaited :-)

[Chipzfriar]

Ok, here's the scoop. I've been lurking for a month or so now, and decided it was time to ask the N00b questions before I put down the hard earned cash. I started all this by deciding I wanted to start playing the game Empire of Istaria by Horizons, as I have been watching it in development for over 4 years now, and even with reading the *mixed* reviews since it was released 4 months ago, I still want to give it a shot, as I realize it is experiencing growing pains and I've MMORPG'ed it for a while and know how these things go.

Anywho, back on topic, I started this new comp project in a pretty backwards way, and have a question if I have may have wasted my money. I Love Kingston memory, they have great support and their warranty is 1st rate, have used it for years and years. I was on their website, and, knowing that I needed (wanted ?) to make a new system for this game, and have been wanting to try my hand at O/C'ing it (my first dive into this realm).

I saw they were showing off their "top of the line" HyperX Unbuffered Dual Channel Kits, so I decided to buy the DDR 533MHz (PC4300) 512MB 533MHz DDR Non-ECC CL3 DIMM (Kit of 2 - 256MB). I did notice that it is CL3, as opposed to CL 2.x, and that the timings are 3-4-4-8-1 at +2.7V. I am confused as to the CL and timing spec's, is one inhearantly better than another, especially for overclocking? And, at $220 for 512 meg of RAM, was this a waste, could I have done better for the money, etc?

Those are the only parts I have purchased so far, and by doing ( a bunch of ) reading, here is what I am thinking on putting together for my system:

Case: Koolance PC2-901BW (planning on going whole hog, cooling the CPU, Vid, chipset, HD's) (anyone make a watercooled PSU? hehehe)
PSU: Up in the air still, see below
MB: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe ( I have heard about mods for MB's, are there any for this one I should look into? )
CPU: Prob end up with a P-4 3.4, but seeing recent posts, ppl seem dissapointed with the latest batch of them and their OCability? Not to mention the fact that they are a buck and a half more expensive that the 3.2's? Thoughts?
HD's: Prob Seagates, I think I want to use the SATA connectors on the MB (RAID-0), but they seem kinda pricey as of yet...
Vid: Prob end up with an ATI Radeon 9700 or 9800, found a 9700 Pro new for about $260, seems a lot better than the $400+ they are getting for the 9800XT's, and perf is supposedly not _that_ significantly better? Of course, been hearing about the new (forthcoming?) R420 cored Radeon, but if they are only available in PCI Express, that won't help me now, or with this board...
DVD burner: LG Electronics DVD+/-RW Mulitformat Drive, Model GSA-4081B Tom's Hardware reviewed them, and the model this one replaces was rated one of the best at many things, especially ripping DVD's, and the price is right as well

One other thing which has, as of late, become more of a priority for me, is the noise level of the system. I have been to a site called www.endpcnoise.com, and they have some interesting low noise parts. Of course, I sometimes get the feeling that low noise and overclocking are diametricly opposed, for the obvious reason of heat.

Does anyone have this particular Koolance case, is it noisier than a normal, what with the water cooling, and being a Full Tower style (I love full towers, always have, lotsa room)? And what PSU would be a good choice for OC'ing a system, what size and brand? Noise is important to me, and so is Money, believe it or not. Any thoughts on any of these points (you would want to do this because this, or, you may want to watch out for that because of that, kind of thing) would be Most Appreciated.

BTW, I am planning on buying most of my parts at Newegg, and although they list some Koolance parts, I didn't see that case, and some of their cooler part #'s don't match Koolance's website, IE the CPU cooler (CHC-A09 on Koolances' site, Newegg lists as CPU-200G) looks the same, same spec's but diff part #'s?? Will prob end up calling Newegg to get the straight scoop and availability of parts.

Last thing. (Promise!) I know the Socket 775 is coming out, soon, but I have also learned, the hard way, (was like the 8th person in the country to install Novell Netware 4.0.0... OMG... Nightmare...) so I am wary of being on the Bleeding Edge when it comes to new MB's and the like... Can anyone think of a good reason to hold off for a month or 2 and wait for all these new things (Socket 775, PCI Express video, etc)? Not sure if it would be worth the perf gains, if any, for the hassles (bugs?) and, almost certainly, higher prices?

Thanks for any responses, and sorry it's so verbose.

[enzoR]

:welcome: to the :sick: ness!!!

[Kanavit]

Welcome Chipzfriar to XS, glad to have you aboard.

I really don't think BTX is worth waiting for, especially if you are a self-system builder. socket 775, DDRII, and PCI express will be available in ATX form factor also.

Your ram is rated 533mhz @ CL 3 -4 -4 -8 timings. If you adjust Ram to 400mhz, I'm sure the Kingston can easily run @ lower CAS timings.

We've been fighting PC noise for years, and cooling technology has revolutionized. There are PSUs that come with speed variable fans, the P4 Zalman silent cooler with 80mm fan , and Stealth 80mm low rpm case fans. You can also add foam insulation to help quiet the noise.

Koolance watercooling is also very good, since only Radiator has fans, so it's very quiet. This water cooling kit isn't recommended for Overclocking, however it will work great on just stock performance.

[hatemi]

There is no advantage of buying pc4200 ram with those latencies. Too bad there isnt that much of good BH-5 ram around anymore at an afordable price that is. Mushkin and OCZ still has some but the prices are sky high.
Cpu: My recomendation 3.0c
Mobo: P4C800E if you can afford one
PSU: Fortron makes very good PSUs that have very low noise levels and very good quality
Case: Both Chieftech and Antec make some damn good cases that have enough room for watercooling if you want to get in to that someday. From what I have heard you should stay away of Koolace cos you can get better preformance and lower noise even with good aircooling.
Cooling: Zalman 7000-cu seems to be one of the best heatsinks and the fan is adjustable. With low noise settings it is very silent. Then put some Papst or Panaflow fans there also. Preferably 12cm ones and get a rheostat to adjust their speeds.
Video card: Best bang for a buck at the moment would be R9800Pro. you can find them at a very tempting prices these days:D
These parts should get you started and if you hang long enough here at XS you will most deffinantly get the sicness and then nothing is fast enough;) Believe me it will happen!

[Chipzfriar]

Everyone, thanks for the welcome, and your thoughts. I am still a little, (well, a lot) shakey on the whole CL and CAS timings issue for RAM. (any place to go to learn more of the basics on how these work?) From the sounds of it, I may have made a mistake in what I purchased? Will it be OCable? Has anyone ran it or another brand at those timings sucessfully, overclocked? They have a good return policy, if I want to, but I have had it for a few weeks so I should probably decide sooner rather than later if I want to ship it back.

Kanavit, with the Koolance case/cooling system, it doesn't have the gusto to go very far with OC'ing, if at all? Wow, I would have thought that any water cooling would be better than air cooling, but that's why I am here, plan on learning something new every day, and haven't been disappointed. ;)

Hatemi, the P4C800-E Deluxe is what I am planning on getting, ppl seem to love it, unless they happen to get a lemon, but from all the posts I've read, that seems relatively rare, and if you have bought if from a good reseller, you should be in pretty good shape, RMA wise. Do you not think that water cooling is the way to go, as opposed to air, or is it just that the word on the street is to avoid Koolance themselves? There are so many variables, it's hard to know which way is the right way to go... **edit** Forgot to ask, why the 3.0 as opposed to 3.2 or 3.4? Better built chips, OC better, run cooler? *sigh, so much to learn...*

I'll keep coming back here often, there seems to be a lot of very helpful, knowledgeable people hanging around here, and (especially) at this point in my OC'ing career, I can use all the friends I can get. (not that it's ever bad to have smart, helpful friends, mind you... ;) )

[Sir Random]

You could always get a P4 2.8c M0 and crank it up to 250fsb. That would give you 3.5Ghz and run your ram 1:1 at 500Mhz.

Edit: gettin' carried away...

[Soulburner]

Where are you located?

$260 sounds really high? Canadian?

Brand new 9800 Pros are $210 or so US...

[Chipzfriar]

I'm in the US, and did a search for a brand new 9700 pro, I found only one place that had one for sale. I thought I heard they were fairly comparable to the top end 9800's, other than having 1/2 the memory, but their design was better than the 9800 Pro (something about pipelines, if I remember correctly?), just not as good memory, and a heckuva lot cheaper than the XT version?
*edit spelling*

[Soulburner]

No, the R9800 is definetely superior to the 9700. They are faster at the same clock, and clock higher as well....

I see no reason to buy a R9700 when the R9800s are so cheap now.

[Super strokey]

I like the choice of koolance, the cases look great. Of course it wont cool crazy high but it will help you more than air for sure.

[mustang9621]

Koolance has a decent set up for your first watercooling rig. Easy to set up and very Quiet at stock speeds. If you plan on overclocking the koolance case can handle the job but it will get noisy. I would recommend buying the koolance compoents from thier website and for your cpu go with the 300g water block it has better heat transfer. (the prices at the Koolance site are about the same as the other sites)

If you want to take full advantage of the memory you might want to buy a 3.0c or a 2.8c (MO steppings) the 3.2 and 3.4 tend to hit a wall at 225 FSB

[Chipzfriar]

Okies, from what I think I am getting out of this (so far ;) ) is that the memory I bought is "ok" (though I get the feeling I spent too much for it *sigh*), should work out alright, isn't the best out there, but will be good enough, even for _some_ OC'ing. The CPU that would prob work best for this memory (and motherboard?) would be the 3.0C version as opposed to the 3.2 or 3.4? The current vid card bang for $ leader is the 9800 Pro, and thought I read in some thread somewhere around here that the Pro is the same as the XT with a diff BIOS? Is that moddable? (prob. not, who'd buy the XT if it was? ;) )

Overall, the Koolance case is a decent choice, but from all the discussion, it will be adequate, though not going to be able to keep up with _too much_ OC'ing, but a better start than just air, and, unless I got nutz with the heat, prob quieter as well. As for the MB, looks like my ASUS choice is a good one. PSU, Fortran seems the suggestion atm, but does anyone know of a good, decently high powered (450+W) watercooled one? If you are going water, especially for noise abatement, I would think that would be one of the first places to start?

In summary, looks like I am on the right track, but still have to learn more about the CPU/OC'ing thing to make sure I get one that will work for my setup, since I can't go too nuts with the heat, with this watercooling setup. Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions/comments, and feel free to add anything anytime, this is a great place to learn from a lot of experienced people! :D

[Techmasta]

Watercooled psu's are rare. There is no need for them. The Fortron psu's are very quiet.

[Chipzfriar]

OK, it's now just about time to lay out the money, enuf reseaching, well, almost. I have one last question, again about the CPU. I have been reading about the 3.2C and 3.0C's and now also about the 3.4C's. It seems, from reading a few threads, plus what was said by mustang9621, I guess I am confused. The latest threads I read said the the 3.4 will go well over 4Ghz, but then I heard that the 3.2 and 3.4's hit the wall at 225 FSB. I really don't want to make a $200 mistake, but also, I plan on having this be my "Uber Computer" for the forseeable future. With the memory I have now, would it make sense to get the 3.4? I just don't know enough to make an intelligent decision yet. Thoughs, everyone? And Thanks, too, this whole forum has provided quite an education.

Oh, one last thing, decided to go with a PC Power & Cooling PSU Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/reviews/xt_overclocking/index.html

I am going to order it with the 3 external potentiometers, so I can adjust the voltages without having to open the case. This thing's the Rolls Royce of PSU's (for the price, it had better be) ;) But the good thing about those, just like with good monitors, is that you keep em for years, they'll (hopefully) work with the next few MB's you buy.

Thanks again! :D

[Chipzfriar]

Well, I've jsut about got all the parts together, expecting my new 128 meg Sapphire ATI Radeon 9800 Pro video card today, so all I need to do now is decide on the processor. I am still not sure of the best way to go, I have been watching for a month and a half the talk of the advantages of the new 30 cap design of the 3.0C etc P-4's, but am trying to nail down if the 3.0 is best, or if it would be better to spend an extra hundred or so to go for the 3.2 or even the 3.4.

Since they have now been out for a month or 2, is there any general agreement as to which is 'better'? One thread I read about the 3.0C's said that it was at this point pretty much a crapshoot as to the odds of getting one that will OC very well or not, even the newer designs. Is this a fair statement?

Thanks for any advice on this one, I can't wait to get this thing up and running, and start tweeking on it a bit. :)

[All Kill3r]

i had a 2.8c and now a 3.0c, both were 30 caps. I wish i had a 3.2 or 3.4c now :D Get the fastest you can is my recommendation. Run your mem 5:4 and tighten the timings.