New Vapochill LS...Mach 2 clone

[brwmogazos]

now what on earth is that?

took the pics from another forum a mate of mine posted just in case you havent seen it...well i havent...

Now tell me...do you feel sick once again asetek has copied the mach 2 concept like the did with the LRWW waterblock?
http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/MGTDSTRA/18793/228048/0/P1_LightSpeed.gif

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/MGTDSTRA/18793/228050/0/P2_LightSpeed.gifif

[Dajo]

Actually i dont care who makes it as long as it performs good, But the fact that the design is taken from the Mach 2 makes me wanna puke, but hey! i just want whats best!

//DAJO

[Try-this]

I hope for some cheaper coolers, now that there can be some price-competition on two "alomost the same" coolers :D

[Ragnarok]

are u sure this is not a joke? blatant rip off otherwise... those asetek guys are sure getting desperate...

having said that, there's probably no point upgrading to it anyway...

[Pandrone]

Nice they've taken the step to 115/230v :).

This may be the datasheet to the compressor: http://www.danfoss.com/compressors/pdf/datasheets/r404a_220v_50_60hz/f-series/FR85CL_R404A-R507_220V_50Hz_09-02_Cf53b202.pdf

Wonder if they charged it with R404a or with R134a. Probably R404a.

[Master_G]

I want to see how it performs, and how much its gonna cost.
To be honest im not surprised that it looks like that, cos everyone has said that the only way forward for Asetek is to use a larger compressor, and the only possible place to feasible place to put it is under the computer itself.
To my mind Asetek is just doing what everyone said they would be doing what everyone said they would have to do, they still have a different chillcontrol, a different evaporator.
The lian-li case is just cos they can then steal the exclusivity that the prommy has with lian-li cases.
Considering the ruckus Asetek has made over temps recently, they had better stick to the "best temps on the market claim" IMO.
Interesting product, even if the casing does look very similar, I want to see how it actually performs (and the cost)

G

[WxChaser]

Both Asetek and Nventiv are monitoring these forums and most likely using Xtreme as a source of R&D. When you see the rounded evap head, the 360 degree mounting system, etc, you can see ideas that were first formulated here by our members.

Other changes by both manufacturer's will be coming down the pike for certain.

[brwmogazos]

the casing+concept is identicall.

What makes me sick is all that noise they started about taking nventiv to the court about copyrighting and stuff like that.


THAT IS WHAT MAKES ME SICK COS THEY ARE DOING IT THEMSELVES

[Ragnarok]

hahah to Asetek employees reading XS

you are a bunch of :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:s, get some creativity and stop copying others..

taking Nventiv to court over their own design? good luck... I suggest a mass boycott..

[TheDude]

LOL....looks exactly like a MachII. I see they have Bowman and Bakers swivel block. It even says MachII compatible!
Where did he get this? Is it a joke? I mean would even asetek do something this blatant? It sure looks real enough. There's nothing on their site about it. I would think they should be able to sell it dirt cheap as they don't seem to have invested much in R&D! Do they really think they can build a better MachII than nVENTIV?
Well.....if you can't beat them.....copy them I guess.:rolleyes:

[brwmogazos]

if its a joke its a real good one :p

I doubt it is though.Mate of mine posted these pics in another computer forum :)

[Pandrone]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
hahah to Asetek employees reading XS

you are a bunch of :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:s, get some creativity and stop copying others..

taking Nventiv to court over their own design? good luck... I suggest a mass boycott..

Sounds to me that you don't want any competition between the companies.. That would hopefully make the units a bit cheaper.

[Ragnarok]

Plagiarism in my dictionary isnt exactly a part of ethical corporate behaviour, I am more than happy to see competition.. but not this sort of crap...

Sounds to me u r employed by Asetek :D

[RootX]

AND THEY SAY IT'S HOT. Well, of course it is, but with proper cooling the INQUIRER team of boffins (me) was able to cool this baby down to sub-zero temperatures in a Vapochill system using Abit's IC7 MAX3 motherboard, Abit 9800XT PRO INQ edition, powered by Asetek and Corsair DDR 550 PC 4400 memory.

We had this machine stable in all tests and Prescott sure showed us some potential. (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14343)

It doesn't say LightSpeed, like the bold red letters at the right top of the photo...

ps.. Brwmogazos, I'll never forgive you mate, not only I had to visit "INQUIRER" but I've run a search, also, :p:

[brwmogazos]

Íôñïðç RootX
Been told its gonna cost arround £450 and also that its official their new product...

[WxChaser]

I see they have Bowman and Bakers swivel block Dale, pretty much exactly copied as I mentioned earlier.
I'll still take bowman's & baker's work over a competitor's any day.

[Kamerat]

Nice system, hope it's real... and I think Asetek know what they are doing.

BTW: VapoChill's CPU-kit has been 360° rotatable since their first S370 kit.

[isp]

This looks all too real !!! :rotf:

You have to admit, it looks better than the old vapo case ;) ...

[xsky]

-48,3c would be fine...but what is it doing to a 180w cpu?
is this thing really as good as prom?

[paul007]

yeah it will be r404 why not they know the compressors that they use now 12v can hold up why not just go directly thur danfoss and use the same condensing units and take the lead as ebst stock cooling. :) I wonder if they finally went wiht a better evap also?? Humm

looks nice and I agree who cares who they copied from yes its a bit unmoral, but we as consumers at the end of the day buy whats bets plain and simple so if they used all that we have talked about or have done to redesign there units into a mach II killer well then I guess Im all for it..

we all know however that anytime that chip-con wants to gas r404 and tweak there current mach II who will be on top again. :)

[QuadDamage]

i don't care if it looks like Prommie as long as it's as good or even better. I played with my friend's Vapo XE two days ago and must admit it was a pleasure to install it. The hose can be bent in every direction unlike Prommie, no need for crappy seal string that you can take a few caps/resistors out with it and no condensation issues like water leaking from evaps housing and such.
I hope this Vapo uses some bigger compressor charged with r404a though. If it is then it might be better than nVidia err, i mean nVentiv:)

[TheDude]

anyone notice how all of a sudden the poll went from 8-2 to 10-8? LOL....a little bit fishy?
BTW QuadDamage.....the MachII has a new more flexible hose than the MachI did.

[saaya]

where are the pics?

[QuadDamage]

i forgot to vote. So it's 10-9 now:)

[paul007]

the compressor is an r404/r507 unit

http://www.danfoss.com/compressors/pdf/datasheets/r404a_220v_50_60hz/f-series/FR85CL_R404A-R507_220V_50Hz_09-02_Cf53b202.pdf

looks to be able to hold a -30c load at 200w+

[brwmogazos]

pics are back on again :)

[dpa]

-30 with 200w+ is good.. mach II (404) with 200w+ will hold?

[brwmogazos]

Originally posted by QuadDamage
i don't care if it looks like Prommie as long as it's as good or even better. I played with my friend's Vapo XE two days ago and must admit it was a pleasure to install it. The hose can be bent in every direction unlike Prommie, no need for crappy seal string that you can take a few caps/resistors out with it and no condensation issues like water leaking from evaps housing and such.
I hope this Vapo uses some bigger compressor charged with r404a though. If it is then it might be better than nVidia err, i mean nVentiv:)

yeah the hose can be bent...you sh*t your pants off though till you get it to the desired shape cos its so hard to bend+u cant be sure for ever you have the evap head 100% horizontal with the cpu heatspreader...

No crappy seal string?

What about ALL THAT INSULATION PASTE that MESSES all over the cpu AND the motherboard AND is a pain to remove with alcohol and a toothbrush and STILL cant take it all off?

No condensation?There is condensation sometimes thus getting some green staff on top of you cpu socket coming from the cpu pins.

The new head looks a lot better i dont know in detail though the installation proceidure of it.

Thats only my personal experience back in the days ihad my Vapo PE though...and no i aint flaming you mate :)...u just have another point of view on my old Vapo

[QuadDamage]

Originally posted by TheDude
anyone notice how all of a sudden the poll went from 8-2 to 10-8? LOL....a little bit fishy?
BTW QuadDamage.....the MachII has a new more flexible hose than the MachI did.

yeah but still there's a lot to desire in quality department. seal string is a joke, screws break easily if you keep swapping mobo's/cpu's especially when there cold, metal screws+plastic threads hmm, evap temps reading etc.
I prefer Mach units of course because i prefer performance but it's not really that hard to improve fittings etc quality.


So it's r404a/r507? sounds nice, me likes!:D

[`schr0et]

wow... care to steal more ideas "ASSTEK"? I like how you guys play a "fair game" lol...

I don't know but does anyone else seem to think the actions of asetek seem to be that of a dying business?

[dpa]

I hate the hose on my Mach II, it really sucks.. i dont have the guts to bend it.

[Ragnarok]

If u have already regased ur Mach II, then I guess there's not much point upgrading to the new Vapo.. but certainly nicely for first time phase change users..

DIY cascades are still king of the hill... :D

[Kamerat]

Originally posted by brwmogazos
Now tell me...do you feel sick once again asetek has copied the mach 2 concept like the did with the LRWW waterblock?
Copied what Mach II concept?

[QuadDamage]

Originally posted by brwmogazos
yeah the hose can be bent...you sh*t your pants off though till you get it to the desired shape cos its so hard to bend+u cant be sure for ever you have the evap head 100% horizontal with the cpu heatspreader...

No crappy seal string?

What about ALL THAT INSULATION PASTE that MESSES all over the cpu AND the motherboard AND is a pain to remove with alcohol and a toothbrush and STILL cant take it all off?

No condensation?There is condensation sometimes thus getting some green staff on top of you cpu socket coming from the cpu pins.

The new head looks a lot better i dont know in detail though the installation proceidure of it.

Thats only my personal experience back in the days ihad my Vapo PE though...and no i aint flaming you mate :)...u just have another point of view on my old Vapo

no offense taken. Let's just say you lack experience:) Try XE first and we'll talk again i promise.

What about ALL THAT INSULATION PASTE that MESSES all over the cpu AND the motherboard AND is a pain to remove with alcohol and a toothbrush and STILL cant take it all off?

you don't have to use it if you don't want to. On the other hand when i had my mighty 1700+ prommie cooled running for three months when i rip the system apart for maintenance i discovered my cpu lost a few pins do to corrosion and such. So next time i will definately use that "crappy" Vapo style dialectric grease.

[Ragnarok]

occurance of corrosion with Vapo is much higher than Prom in general, but prom isnt totally fool proof.. U can still get condensation if u dont take extra precautions and double up on seal string..

Personally I will probably never buy a vapo or prommy again, now that I've discovered the wonderful world of DIY phase change..

[TheDude]

You have to admit it's pretty funny that the new Vapo looks exactly like a MachII with some extra holes drilled in the side panel. Before they looked nothing alike at all.
It looks to me like they just copied the MachII and regassed it with 404? Not sure about which gas they used?
Competition is good, but lets have some NEW products and NEW ideas.
Before I am accused of being biased.....I would feel the same way if nVENTIV rolled out a "New" product that looked just like a Vapochill. Who wouldn't? :rolleyes:

[brwmogazos]

Originally posted by QuadDamage
no offense taken. Let's just say you lack experience:) Try XE first and we'll talk again i promise.



you don't have to use it if you don't want to. On the other hand when i had my mighty 1700+ prommie cooled running for three months when i rip the system apart for maintenance i discovered my cpu lost a few pins do to corrosion and such. So next time i will definately use that "crappy" Vapo style dialectric grease.

Heh..didnt say i used the XE ;) only owned a PE and i would like to see in detail the new head :)

Personally i lost a mobo due to my mach 2 condensation...never lost a component all that time i had the PE...double seal etc were always used...this time i got neoprene and pcb laquer used to prevent any more dead boards :p

[Pandrone]

Originally posted by TheDude
You have to admit it's pretty funny that the new Vapo looks exactly like a MachII with some extra holes drilled in the side panel. Before they looked nothing alike at all.
It looks to me like they just copied the MachII and regassed it with 404? Not sure about which gas they used?
Competition is good, but lets have some NEW products and NEW ideas.
Before I am accused of being biased.....I would feel the same way if nVENTIV rolled out a "New" product that looked just like a Vapochill. Who wouldn't? :rolleyes:


It's a r404a compressor so most likely they use R404a. The case looks good but it could have been more unlike the prommy :).

Ps. Wouldn't it be quite unnecessary to use a r404 comp and charge it with r134a ?

[Gary Lloyd]

You either put the unit above or below. If you use a heavier compressor, you put it below, so the whole thing won't be top heavy. If you put it below, there isn't much choice on where the hose comes up to go to the CPU. Does that make it a clone? I don't think so.

Better performance at a lower price.

Good job, Asetek. :toast:

[Ragnarok]

the issue wasnt really the placement of the compressor, but rather the finish makes it look exactly like a prom. Someone might claim the design is 'generic', but obviously Asetek doesnt think so and as we've heard there's rumour of Asetek going to court...

in my mind they could have come up with a lot more creative design to differentiate themselves from Nventiv...

btw Gary, what sort of performance gains are we looking? any guestimates?

[Kamerat]

...or should LianLi take nVENTIV and asetek court for using their design. I saw costom LianLi-modded Prommys long before nVENTIV/ChipCon came with the kit.

[Ragnarok]

well u r a ****, the nventiv lian li kit is made in Taiwan by Lian li.. and none of the Vapo Li were ever commercial...

Do I need to remind you of the rules against flaming?TheDude

BTW I agree with your post #10;)

[TheDude]

Ps. Wouldn't it be quite unnecessary to use a r404 comp and charge it with r134a ?

Yes it would, but they could have used 507 or any number of others. ;) Kind of a condencending remark don't you think?

[Gary Lloyd]

btw Gary, what sort of performance gains are we looking? any guestimates?


I would expect performance similar to an R404A modded prommie. But unlike the prommie, and in light of recent events, I tend to believe their advertised temps. They certainly aren't going to go in for false advertising after all the complaining they did about nVENTIV. :D

[Ragnarok]

well Asetek hasnt exactly sorted out their waterchill fiasco yet... so dont put ur faith in their LCD temps either :D..

but then it's the same deal with motherboard manufacturer as well, the bios reported temps are open to as much manipulation as anything..

Just go by the overclocks, screw the temps!

[charlie]

The Vapo stuff has always felt more "factory" and the Prom more "homebuilt". Before that was OK becasue the Prom was colder, but now if the LE is colder/cheaper/more advanced/cleaner and neater.... it's a win! BTW, though 4300 for a Prescott isn't very impressive, though.

C

[Gary Lloyd]

I have never even seen a vapo or a prommie, but I know that -48C is very doable with R404A, and -51C with R134a is not doable. nVENTIV says that it represents their evaporating temp, but that isn't doable, either. That's beyond the usual marketing stretch. It's a blatantly false and ridiculous claim.

BTW, does anyone think the wording of the poll is just a tad biased?

[QuadDamage]

well i like the fact that they used r404a compressor. It can be safely recharged with r507 and still run cool. I have to r404a modded prommie's but these compressors do run really hot. I have 120mm Delta screamers installed but i wonder if these units could run 24/7? Delta's help big time but the noise is unbearable for long run hehe.

I'm happy and hopng nVentiv strikes back with some killer r404a/r507 unit. Competition is good folks it's just like Intel vs AMD/nVidia vs ATI:)

[phil stanbridge]

If they use an old compressor then it will be noisy - it will be like running your Mach II fans on turbo, all the time. No thanks. 4300mhz isnt all that impressive is it, hell, I can get that now with my stock Mach II.

[PTK]

Looks great to me. So what that the case looks exactly like the Mach II with the oh so expensive [ and what i have heard pain in the ass install } lian-li kit.

If its reasonable priced and you can forget a prommy + lian-li kit install + r404a hassle ... then i would just take that LS and slap that used Vapo PE i just bought a while back to my radeon or just sell it.

So what if they check out what people are looking for and then deliver ? Personally i dont give a crap if they stole the ideas if the product is what people want and had to before mod current products to get there.

We just got the needed competition to the HIGH end... thats allways good.

PTK

[TheDude]

Gary,

They changed that temp info on their website. They claim -38c to-40c evaporating temp now.

[Gary Lloyd]

I'm glad to hear that, Dude. :D

[TheDude]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I'm glad to hear that, Dude. :D

Yep.....me too:thumbsup: :D

[QuadDamage]

Originally posted by charlie
The Vapo stuff has always felt more "factory" and the Prom more "homebuilt". Before that was OK becasue the Prom was colder, but now if the LE is colder/cheaper/more advanced/cleaner and neater.... it's a win! BTW, though 4300 for a Prescott isn't very impressive, though.

C

they should've tested it on another chip either AMD or P4C. Some Prescotts won't do 4Ghz even LN2 cooled. Of course we'll never know until someone from here puts his hands on it.

[Kamerat]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
well u r a ****, the nventiv lian li kit is made in Taiwan by Lian li.. and none of the Vapo Li were ever commercial...
Calm down... If that's true, LianLi will of course not bring Asetek to court for making them sell more cases. ;)

Edit: BTW. I never said anything about VapoLi.

[CCW]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
BTW, does anyone think the wording of the poll is just a tad biased?

Well, I do think what asetek are now doing is wrong. They are copying the Mach II basically despite their "hatred" towards a competitior. The company (asetek) is a shambles. They keep going from one low to another.

[paul007]

How do company's become big and sucsessful though?? They follow and do what others have done before them and fix any mistakes in the design's and make it better and sometimes cheaper to steal the market..

This to us as consumers brings better products at cheaper prices..

Vapochill has done good here IMO if they copied one million designs or not.. They didn's steal patents right? ;)

[TheDude]

Can you imagine the crying that would be going on if it was the other way around? :D

[Peen]

I voted, and also voted this for most popular thread of the week;) ..., more then likely

[paul007]

Can you imagine the crying that would be going on if it was the other way around?

yeah true :)

[phobos]

I don't know what I should think about it.....well at the one hand it really looks like a mach II but .......argh....I need more details!!

And paul007 mentioned: Competition is always good for us customers :) (although it's not always fair)

[Master_G]

More info is need to convince me one way or the other, but it looks to me that it has a different mounting system, different evap, different compressor, different gas, the only thing that is really the same is the Lian-li kit (and to my mind thats just going after the popularity of those cases, and it means that the new vapochill unit can fit under any case currently sitting on a prommy)
I really hope it has a low price, and gives more competition in the market.
CCW, how are they copying the machII apart from the case design (which Nventiv copied off people who made their own vapo- and prommy-li's)?
I agree that there probably would be a load of whining if it was the other way around, but if it gives me the performance the Gary Lloyd says it could do then i would be happy.

G

[Marci]

OK... here goes nuthin...

1 - It ain't a copy. The AESTHETICS are a copy of the OPTIONAL LianLi Kit for the MkII. The fact that Asetek may have chosen to install a similar kit by default rather than it being an optional extra obviously works in both their's and LianLi's favor in terms of sales as there isn't the extra £100 to add on top of yer unit to make it match yer LianLi...

2 - You CAN'T copyright the guts. It is a refrigeration system with a compressor, evaporator, and heat exchanger. No matter how you did it you wouldn't be able to copyright it as the copyright holder is ultimately the guy that came up with the refrigeration concept in the first place.

Now, I'm not taking sides, but... Asetek should be shot for not coming up with their own AESTHETIC finish to the unit. That's just a blatant cop-out and an attempt to cash on in on another companies hard-earned established and almost traditional model. Altho, really, nVentiv would have benefitted from making the LianLi wrapper a stock option rather than an optional extra long ago. Don't care what legal crap has gone on between nVentiv and Asetek in the past, this is just getting petty and childish from Asetek's end to produce a clone that is clone enough to the point of raising this thread in the first place. They could have easily styled it on the original VapoChill styling or whatever without losing anything in terms of sales etc, and done the decent thing and made the Ali wrapper an optional extra.

I'm not prepared to speak on a performance level until I've owned one of these units, but purely from looking at it I'm not overly impressed with the tactics being employed.

This is my personal opinion, but is currently reflected by the lack of Asetek's products on our site anymore. I'm sure nVentiv has summat up it's sleeve to combat this release so we shall see what they're next move is... probably within the next few weeks...

Comments regarding Baker / Bowman's mounting concept etc are probably all valid, but it's all down to how baker/bowman feel about it. Some could see it as a tribute to them... especially if Asetek gave credit to them for the concept somewhere within the documentation for the unit, but at the end of the day no hold down device can ever be a revolutionary concept worth copyrighting or patenting. Copyrighting a circular peg in a square bracket is like copyrighting the wheel.

The only thing Asetek have done wrong here is there choice on how to present the unit to the public in terms of visual appearance... but for that alone, a line has been crossed in my book.

[Soulburner]

Looks good to me but the name "LS", or "Lightspeed" doesn't sound right.

They need something that sounds cold...Frostbite, Blizzard, Hailstorm...I dunno, use your imagination...

[phobos]

@Marci: Full ack to your post!

They would have done themselves a favor if they had made the unit look more different than the Mach II.

Btw: The asetek unit seems to be a little bit lowere than the Mach II.

[TheDude]

Originally posted by Marci
OK... here goes nuthin...

1 - It ain't a copy. The AESTHETICS are a copy of the OPTIONAL LianLi Kit for the MkII. The fact that Asetek may have chosen to install a similar kit by default rather than it being an optional extra obviously works in both their's and LianLi's favor in terms of sales as there isn't the extra £100 to add on top of yer unit to make it match yer LianLi...

2 - You CAN'T copyright the guts. It is a refrigeration system with a compressor, evaporator, and heat exchanger. No matter how you did it you wouldn't be able to copyright it as the copyright holder is ultimately the guy that came up with the refrigeration concept in the first place.

Now, I'm not taking sides, but... Asetek should be shot for not coming up with their own AESTHETIC finish to the unit. That's just a blatant cop-out and an attempt to cash on in on another companies hard-earned established and almost traditional model. Altho, really, nVentiv would have benefitted from making the LianLi wrapper a stock option rather than an optional extra long ago. Don't care what legal crap has gone on between nVentiv and Asetek in the past, this is just getting petty and childish from Asetek's end to produce a clone that is clone enough to the point of raising this thread in the first place. They could have easily styled it on the original VapoChill styling or whatever without losing anything in terms of sales etc, and done the decent thing and made the Ali wrapper an optional extra.

I'm not prepared to speak on a performance level until I've owned one of these units, but purely from looking at it I'm not overly impressed with the tactics being employed.

This is my personal opinion, but is currently reflected by the lack of Asetek's products on our site anymore. I'm sure nVentiv has summat up it's sleeve to combat this release so we shall see what they're next move is... probably within the next few weeks...

Comments regarding Baker / Bowman's mounting concept etc are probably all valid, but it's all down to how baker/bowman feel about it. Some could see it as a tribute to them... especially if Asetek gave credit to them for the concept somewhere within the documentation for the unit, but at the end of the day no hold down device can ever be a revolutionary concept worth copyrighting or patenting. Copyrighting a circular peg in a square bracket is like copyrighting the wheel.

The only thing Asetek have done wrong here is there choice on how to present the unit to the public in terms of visual appearance... but for that alone, a line has been crossed in my book.


I have to say Marci has expressed my own feelings on this matter much better than I did....I couldn't agree more with every word he said! Thanks! :thumbsup:

[gkiing]

If it's cheaper than a MachII and comes with the aluminum case standard, Im getting one!

The old vapochills sucked though

[Master_G]

I thought that one of the main problems with the existing vapochill was that about 50% of people thought that the case looks awful and bulbous, and cited it as a reason for not goin for a vapochill. Therefore going for the aluminium option makes the case appeal to a greater range of people, and the lian-li design can be manufactured relatively easily (with the square plan holes on the front and side) and still give good ventilation to the compressor and rad.
Asetek is tryin to sell its units to as many people as possible, surely if the aluminium design is the most popular then they should make that. Then to fit in with the lian-li cases they have to look the same if they are going to provide sufficient ventilation to the rad etc.
If a company chooses to make a bottom cabinet in a lian-li style then there is only one way it can look from the front.

G

[Gary Lloyd]

1 - It ain't a copy. The AESTHETICS are a copy of the OPTIONAL LianLi Kit for the MkII. The fact that Asetek may have chosen to install a similar kit by default rather than it being an optional extra obviously works in both their's and LianLi's favor in terms of sales as there isn't the extra £100 to add on top of yer unit to make it match yer LianLi...


So, they both copied the LianLi styling. So what? What I think is petty is this thread.

What should happen next is Kryotech should jump into the game, too. Then there would be the big 3 instead of the big 2. Competition is a good thing.

[Gary Lloyd]

And here's a prediction: We will think up amazing mods for the new Vapo. :D

[phobos]

I also think that's petty .

Well Asetek could have done a new custom case for the "Lightspeed" model but I'm sure that would dramatically increase the price, especially if it would be an aluminium case.

[Peen]

Damn, this thread got to big way to fast. I missed parts probly , like is it official that it uses R404? Isnt it a Mach II with R404A? Whats the cost? Looks like it will be this much...


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[neyoung]

I have mixed feelings about this. I don't like the fact that the looks of the new vapo coppied the addon kit for the prommie. But, the fact is that alot of us do use lianli cases. There isn't much you can do to differentiate yourself from the prommie addon and still have it look good sitting under your lian li case. So while I don't like the fact that it is copied, I like that it would match my lian li case.

The main thing here I guess is performance and craftmanship. I have yet to own a phase chance system due to their price. But if the performance is good then hopefulyl the price of the machs whill go down.

I would like to see a mach III come out because of this, with stock lian li addon, and charged with the better gas. We'll just have to see what happens in the next few weeks.

[Techmasta]

Its looks to me that Asetek is trying to win Nventiv users over by stating in the product description that it is compatible with the mach II's holes. Does anyone else find it interesting that they announce this product shortly after the whole temp dispute? Like it was planned, first to make Nventiv's products look bad then to release a new product.

[Master_G]

Correct me is im wrong but wouldnt Nventiv have to change their compressor if the switch to a different gas, cos those R404 and R507 modded prommies do run quite hot.
At least this should liven up the market for a bit
One question interests me, if Nventiv change to an R404 compressor because of this, will it merit a thread saying "Mach III . . . Vapochill LS clone"?
Another question is price, and Asetek havent even said a work about this new vapochill on their homepage yet.:(

G

[Umgawa]

The plain fact is if its better than the mach2 and cheaper 99.9% of you that are disgruntled will buy one. Nventiv is robbing people with those prices thay charge. There is not a 400$ differance between a mach1 and 2 and that alone pisses me off.

Mach2 999.00
Lian li kit 160.00
r404 upgrade 200.00
1359.00

New VapoLS 600.00(example) same as all above. Well you do the Math. Price alone will change your mind.

If its cheaper and better I sure will buy one.:toast:

[brwmogazos]

Originally posted by Peen
Damn, this thread got to big way to fast. I missed parts probly , like is it official that it uses R404? Isnt it a Mach II with R404A? Whats the cost? Looks like it will be this much...


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

About £450...compared to arround £550 to the Mach 2

[QuadDamage]

the thing is MachII design is almost optimal if not then pretty close. So actually they did the right thing by "copying" there design. I can't think of any better guts placement... sideways, on top? nah.
But they prolly did better job with evap, housing, hose flexibilty and whats most important r404a compressor which can easily be upgraded to r507 or a r404a/r507 mixture and its compressor will still run cool without extra fans.
But as i said before we have to wait for someone to test this baby before we put our final stamp of approval. Maybe OPP could get one of these for a review.

[skate2snow]

PERSONNALY! I dont care about the compagnie wars, i just whant something that performs better then the other and have a more affordable price.

I will not buy a Phase Change coze my setup should work better then a Phase Change. But, IMO.

[Reactivator11]

Well... I dont think they are really copying nventiv...firtst of all they used the outer aluminium body based on the fact that most people prefer that type of housing nowadays, and about the cooling design, well its the most basic method which cant really be bettered so why change it !?

I only care about performance and price....these cooling systems are way too high priced to be reasonable...maybe now that the competition is fairer we will se lower prices.

Hopefully.. :rolleyes:

[texuspete00]

Why do people guess it will be $600?.... explain. Judging by "About £450...compared to arround £550 to the Mach 2"... now I just know how much the mach2 is in the states, makes it look like it will be more than $600.

We definitely need more competitors. A/c units are $100 and mini-fridges... evrything... cheap. MachII price is ludicrous. Though different I know, I could get a sweet ass fridge for 1k. Nevemind the example, Im just talking the principal of the price and the science, not that the fridge is better suited or a better deal for this.

[paul007]

I only care about performance and price....these cooling systems are way too high priced to be reasonable...maybe now that the competition is fairer we will se lower prices.

LOL your so far in left field with that comment :)

Look at the top of the line AMD/INTEL CPU's ATM and think in your head what they would cost if you where to buy one at the clocks you could on one for these cooling units.. Now take a low end Cpu from AMD/INTEL and overclock it for free to these levels and your not spending money, but in return gaining insentive..

You are guaranteed. 6months ahead of the Cpu market with these cooling solutions and soon if they get good enough 1year..

SO for $700-$800 of the price At the time for the top of the line CPU you can have a cheap CPU that runs 20-40% faster than the expensive top of the line chip and this cooling is something you don't have to change in 6 months when a better faster Cpu comes out..
:)

[Reactivator11]

Yes sure but I sure that you havnt read the comments by other more experienced users, Quad Damage mentioned that once after running a cpu (Tbred 1700+) for a few months in his prommy, due to condensation there was so much corrosion that some pins fell off !!:confused:

What the hell do you call that...cutomer friendly...even though supposedly professionally made...reatail coolers are very ghetto... most cutoms blocks and housings made by users here are much better @ preventing condensation.

Ask yourself this...do you want to buy a 250 dollar cpu (Eg. 3400 A64) so that in a few months use its no longer useful !


Of course they are way high priced

[Danne980]

I think that is a bit entusiastic calculated, now you are comparing a max clocked prom cooled cpu against a stock cpu. If you are unlucky you just gaines 100mhz (thinking on amd) and that against a good air cooled cpu. And btw in on year it could be more advances then just the mhz (COULD!).

[majormav]

cloning of products is something we see on a daily basis ... is a television a television , a dvd player a dvd player ... the tactics employed to sell more products than your competition are totally debatable ... as far as more competition = lower prices i agree ... dont suppose theres any marketing product directors from any of the major japanese "white goods" manufacturers on these forums would like assistance from our gurus to design a excellent off the shelf unit ,then we would see a massive price drop in unit costs :2cents:

[isp]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
BTW, does anyone think the wording of the poll is just a tad biased?

Yeah that and, the fact that it's one extreme or the other. I think the poll responses should of been thought about a little more.

[QuadDamage]

Reactivator11,

yeah but if i used dialectric grease my cpu would be still in one piece. I wasn't carefull tthat's all. i mentioned that since someone here in this very thread said something about how bad that white stuff is... see if you use non conductive paster on the socket/pins theres no way this would ever happen.

and paul's right. With one of these units you're way ahead of the market. see you can get one of those cheap ass 2500+ mobile chips which are less than $100 and clock it to 2700-2800mhz with ease, now thats what i call bang for the back. so basically you're paying less for cooling than FX-51/P4EE alone without a mobo/memory even. Trust me within a few years 75%+ of o/cers at least will be on Phase Change.

[lalPOOO]

Originally posted by TheDude
You have to admit it's pretty funny that the new Vapo looks exactly like a MachII with some extra holes drilled in the side panel. Before they looked nothing alike at all.
It looks to me like they just copied the MachII and regassed it with 404? Not sure about which gas they used?
Competition is good, but lets have some NEW products and NEW ideas.
Before I am accused of being biased.....I would feel the same way if nVENTIV rolled out a "New" product that looked just like a Vapochill. Who wouldn't? :rolleyes:

Anybody who calls you biased in this case is off their rocker. What you just said, about a regassed prommie is the first that that came to me.

I guess this is competition though, in some ways its nice though, because both products are so close in design the competition will be tigher. I'd say that while this seems pretty amoral of astek, the descion before was that morals weren't an issue... :stick:

light speed... what a good name.. they could have also named it Richard Simmons, for a similar effect. They should seriously consider renaming it to something decent like Deepfreeze1 or just plain deepfreeze.

[brwmogazos]

few days back reading the big thread between the Nventiv and asetek wars about courts and all that staff made me a bit concerned about what i have bought (mach 2)as well as what asetek plans are etc...

I just felt really annoyed by the fact asetek came up with a unit that looks identicall to my mach 2.
I dont know if that was all they could come up with but it looks identicall to me.

So what was all that noise asetek made about nventiv taking them to small courts etc etc...That seemed to be a bit wrong.

+ all their advertisment campaigns including the best watercooling block in the planet the LRWW copied by cathar made me sick...

I have owned a Vapo PE in the past as well as the waterchill which i still got.Had to deal with asetek support twice and it was excellent.I have nothing against asetek and i will still continue buying their staff if they suit my needs.

It just felt totally wrong though in my eyes for them to come up with such a product a few days after the whole story about the wars between them and nVentiv.

If their unit though is a great performer and is a lot cheaper than the competition then we have a clear winner i suppose as soon as this unit is launched and nVentiv doesnt come up with an improved unit.

[Minnyboy]

All I can say is it's about time they produce something to compete directly with the Mach II.

Even better if it if it was cheaper.

I don't care if it's a clone, if it performs as good then yeah, I'll buy it if it's cheaper....

[phobos]

I wanna know when Asetek will offically announce it!

And of course it's time that Asetek comes with a new, competitive product.

[Iridium192_217]

As long as its good, I don't really care what it looks like.

[charlie]

a car is a car, 4 wheels, steering wheel... all neccessary for the purpose. What did you all want? A VAPO XXXE with 30 lB compressor on the top of a jumbo sized Asetek case?? LOL...
it is what it is, and it looks like they improved on Nventiv's basic design...
Let the competitive wars begin!!! For what the cooler is, it should be 1/2 the price...

c

[Ragnarok]

I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III :D

[WxChaser]

For what the cooler is, it should be 1/2 the price... Totally agree with Charlie on that point. If you bought the compressor, evap, drier, condensor & fans, etc, it would be a hell of a lot less money than currently being charged. I'm glad there is going to be competition on many fronts, not only Nventiv and Asetek, but probably OCZ and other companies getting involved also. The more the merrier because product competition produces cheaper prices for the consumers along with better product design.

[WxChaser]

I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III Sure they will, for about 5 grand! Lol good one though mate. That made me crack up here :D

[isp]

Originally posted by charlie
a car is a car, 4 wheels, steering wheel... all neccessary for the purpose. What did you all want? A VAPO XXXE with 30 lB compressor on the top of a jumbo sized Asetek case?? LOL...
it is what it is, and it looks like they improved on Nventiv's basic design...
Let the competitive wars begin!!! For what the cooler is, it should be 1/2 the price...

c

Ah yes... the voice of reason... :toast:

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by WxChaser
Sure they will, for about 5 grand! Lol good one though mate. That made me crack up here :D

just wishful thinking hehe..

though I am still dissappointed there still isnt a out of the box phase change GPU cooler from either Asetek and Nventiv...

[Anarki]

I think it looks smart but the name is absolute rubbish.

I once heard a very clever comment that went:

"Why try to re-invent the wheel, why not just improve it?"

[Phyrox]

Well guys I dont really think this unit is going to be cheap at all. Keep in mind the current VapoChill XE prices -- Asetek is not known for big price drops. With the release of the Vapochill XE asetek was still selling the PE's for 550 euros on their webshop! My guess is that this unit is going to sell for at least $1000!

Well I do not really care if they copied nventiv or not. Of course this is a very low thing to do and asetek does not strike me as a copmany with a big imagination. I doubt that the vapochill line was their own idea i remember hearing that the vapochill srtarted out as a unit that danfoss designed for asetek! Will need more proof on that of course but its something to keep in mind..

If this unit will give better performance than a r134 mach1/2 then im going to buy it. Also I like the evap and the mounting system...intresting :)

now just a question when are these going to be released publically and for how much. i emaileda couple of resellers but no responses yet.

[hallowen]

I JUST got done spending almost $900 on a Vapo XE, and NOW I See they are coming out with THIS!

Sometimes you Win::D

and Somtimes you Lose::dammit:

Unfortunately (For Me) , even though I Never Used the XE Yet, the place I Bought it from (www.frozencpu.com) DOES NOT make RMA's on this product.

Guess I'll Use parts of it for a GPU cooler, and buy a MARKII like I SHOULD have in the first place!

[Gary Lloyd]

I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III


Not with a R134a compressor. Cascade more likely. Now a R404A compressor has autocascade potential. :D

[TheDude]

I've been trying very hard to refrain from posting this, but I simply cannot.
It's nothing new, lots of companies have done it and still do.
It you have a superior top quality product, you try to make it as distinctive and recognizable as possible. You give it it's own look different from the rest so consumers can easily spot it. asetek and nVENTIV were both fighting for that position in the market and nVENTIV continued to hold it from the begining.
If your product is not number one, you try to make it look as much like the number one product as possible. If a consumer sees the two products sitting side by side, a certain number will buy the lesser one out of simple confusion while others will see that they look identical, but one is cheaper, therefore must be a better deal....usually not true.
This has been going on forever with watches, jeans, handbags, perfumes, etc. It's nothing new and only illegal if it actually poses as the other product (Knockoffs carrying the same name...etc).
For those of you who say that there was no other way for asetek to build the new unit...get real....they could have easily kept the same look or made it entirely different from the Prommie. This was no accident, just a marketing gimmick to try to ride on nVENTIVs success.
Illegal? no....immoral....your call.....It's typical of their way of doing business. They were getting their asses kicked and their solution was to copy the competition and undercut their price. I don't know what the price will be, but it will be cheaper than the current nVENTIV prices, you can count on that.
Of course in the end the consumer will win, because this won't work for long. It will just cause nVENTIV to come out with an even better product at lower prices. The company that takes the high road will win in the end. Looking at the history of both companies, who do you think that will be?;)

[Gary Lloyd]

The company that takes the high road will win in the end.


What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.

Looking at the history of both companies, who do you think that will be?

I choose door #3.

The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.

[`schr0et]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.



I choose door #3.

The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.

I choose #4 there are no good guys :D

Everyone's a good guy until they realize being a good guy requires too much work and rewards are few and far between.

[dim3z]

well to be honest im 17 years old, i havent got very much money, i have a job and all but prommies were just to expensive for me, nether the less, i always had the plan to eventually dish out the cash for a mach2 because i consider them a great product and an awesome investment.. however if i can get pretty much the same thing only at a much lower price.. I WILL

[hatemi]

The automotive industry does this sort of things all the time too. When some company designs a new car that looks apealing to customers and preforms well anothers will copy their ideas and use them in their own products. Anyone seen a Toyota(or any other car for that matter)with similar details as MB or BMW?? ;)

[Gary Lloyd]

There are a few custom builders in these forums who can give you much more for much less. They have put their customers in the top ranks. Yet I see forum members still pissing away their money on vapos and prommies. That's why I haven't jumped into the custom build business.

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.



I choose door #3.

The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.

Thats why you guys should market your products be4 you give the details out so companys don't have a chance :)

[Merenfreak]

Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?

I personally has all systems - mach I , now mach II - vapochill classic, se, pe and now xe. - Well, mach II is the strongest unit so far BUT realy poor in quality !!!

If this news are true, i will insta sell my prommy on ebay and buy this new asetek cooling unit, because it has both - the power and quality.

I hope this unit is becoming true.

We will see next week at CeBit`04 for sure !

Cyas

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by Merenfreak
Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?

I personally has all systems - mach I , now mach II - vapochill classic, se, pe and now xe. - Well, mach II is the strongest unit so far BUT realy poor in quality !!!

If this news are true, i will insta sell my prommy on ebay and buy this new asetek cooling unit, because it has both - the power and quality.

I hope this unit is becoming true.

We will see next week at CeBit`04 for sure !

Cyas


Thats some good info.

Hopefully these will eb affordable also.. 500-800 would be good :)

[kommando]

Don't care looks great, good to vapochill back in action.

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Merenfreak
Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?

lol...where did you get that from?

Nobody who has ever been a part of nVENTIV has ever had ANYTHING to do with Asetek inc. That is official and anyone can verify that.

Furthermore, there is a patent on the way for the Mach 1, if Asetek invented it, why is nVENTIV getting the patent? There is no indication whatsoever that anyone ever made something close to a Mach 1/2 design wise. The first one into this market was actually Kryotech, who deserve the most credit for the concept.

Please do not post non-factual nonsense in threads like this

[G H Z]

nVentiv offers as an option the Lian Li kit. It is not their "stock" case/look. So what if Astek decided to use a Lian Li as well. I'm sure Lian Li is happy about the arrangement. And nventiv is very much shagging anyone who buys the Lian Li kit anyway. The price is ridiculous. I can buy an entire Lian Li case for 2/3 their kit cost:rolleyes:

And since when do competitors play by gentlemens rules anyway. The will all do just about anything to gain market share, including stealing other peoples ideas.

Ultimately, it is up to nVentiv to prove that they are the top dog, and have no intention of relenquishing that position. If you already believe that then why worry about what Astek does?

[kommando]

Oh yer if this is cheaper then the mach 2 im defiently buying one :):)

[avos]

First of all, I do not belong to any religions like Nventiv or Asetek, I just want the best value for my hard earned money.

What strikes me is that in the Jpeg's added as first post, shows in the text of "The Inquirer": "Vapochill Lightspeed system" Whereas the article on the internet site of "The Inquirer" speaks of "Vapochill system".

Also, when I read the article on the Asetek site of "The Inquirer", it only say's "Vapochill system".

As Asetek does not mention a new system on their site, they thus provide (via the Inquirer) the message that a Prescott proc has been over clocked at a stable 4.3 GHz.

Now is this at all possible with a existing Vapochill unit? Or is this misleading?

[Master_G]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
though I am still dissappointed there still isnt a out of the box phase change GPU cooler from either Asetek and Nventiv...

Are you serious? Do you really think there is enough of a market to make it commerically viable to do this? I think it would be very hard to make a mounting system where every Joe Sixpack would be able to mount it 100% trouble free without killing his card, and i really dont see enough margins in it.

G

[Ragnarok]

Well did u expect phase change CPU cooling to be commericially viable as well? Personally I didnt think so...

Just wishful thinking with the GPU cooler, but then there's already enough crazy people out there who are willing to shell out big bux for phase change cpu setups..so who knows what the demand will be like..

[bigdawginva]

Originally posted by JCviggen
lol...where did you get that from?

Nobody who has ever been a part of nVENTIV has ever had ANYTHING to do with Asetek inc. That is official and anyone can verify that.

Furthermore, there is a patent on the way for the Mach 1, if Asetek invented it, why is nVENTIV getting the patent? There is no indication whatsoever that anyone ever made something close to a Mach 1/2 design wise. The first one into this market was actually Kryotech, who deserve the most credit for the concept.

Please do not post non-factual nonsense in threads like this
I agree what Merenfreak posted was total BS but are you posting this as personal or professional input? Associated with nVENTIV A/S, though any input i provide in these forums are my personal views and do not represent any company

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by bigdawginva
I agree what Merenfreak posted was total BS but are you posting this as personal or professional input?

I stated that some things are verifyably untrue, and this information i received officially.

The first and last line were my own input ;)

[kommando]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Well did u expect phase change CPU cooling to be commericially viable as well? Personally I didnt think so...

Just wishful thinking with the GPU cooler, but then there's already enough crazy people out there who are willing to shell out big bux for phase change cpu setups..so who knows what the demand will be like..

True. gpu phase change units would be awesome!

[Gary Lloyd]

Chillers are more versatile, in that they will cool whatever you want. Just add a water block.

[kommando]

Yer i agree with that gary but they get to a point where they can't be used anymore (well temeprture wise).

[mackanz]

The new Vapo LS just showed up on a Swedish vendor with an ETA of march 19.
Converted to $ from SKR it will land at approx. $920
That price isn't going to cut it i'm afraid unless they have done something very special with it which i doubt.

Peeps modded their Vapo's to look Lian long before even Chip-Con started in the business.

[phobos]

Could you post a link?

EDIT:

found it at kylning.com

[TheDude]

Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him?

[OcShoot]

Our site ( OcShoot.no - Norwegian only - we got tired of writing "english" and killed OcShoot.com ) have had a long and very good relation

with Asetek - but we have quarreled a lot and disagreed on a lot of things : so me and the CEO have agreed that there are only women

that are sour for more than 1 hour :)
Yes - I know André Sloth Eriksen - Asetek CEO - from years back - I was one of the first (the first ? ) who reviewed slot VapoChill - and

therafter we have been reviewing the "rest"...and giving our yes and no's.
I have always been open and said that we get much information from Asetek ; and Asetek has always told me what was going on in their

end.
Simply as that - and we have spanked Asetek hard - very hard in things they didn't do 100% - and they listen.

As a reviewer I rejected and returned the first Prometeia model ; it didn't have sufficient insulation - (later models are suspicous too - I don't

want them.. I'm no millionaire....)
From there we were "banned" by nVENTIV / ChipCon - newerthless we were the ones that recommended our sponsor ( 3DfxCool.no ) to

start selling MachII - we have one thing in mind ; we want the best / hardest / safest products (not safe = sour readers) for our readers - if

our sponsors give a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: we are known to import them ourselves and sell them with 0 margin. Then present the salesnumbers for "whoever"

might be interested - we did so with VapoChill and got out of business with 0 earnings.
We were ready to do the same with MachII - but would do that first after we have have told people about how to do adequate 24/7

insulation - nVENTIV have "adopted" some of Aseteks way regarding insulation ; but not enough - they need to adopt 100% - yes even

the very unpopular grease in the socket ! I say - cooperate and let the us overclockers do what we wanna do safe ! You are two danish

producers - what with a cooperation ? Or are Asetek gonna push their luck so far that even Steen Hansen is coming back in business - the one that sent JcViggen to Diskuter.no... jepp you are stretching you'r crediblity JcViggen.. very far - XS got a moderator that is employed by nVENTIV which were sent to our forum to brag of Prometeia ? Webmaster ?= time to do some cleaning here ? Credibility to have a person employed by a vendor ?
Asetek is earning their money in watercooling - phase ? probably close to nada ! So what with nVENTIV ? propably close to nada either....

well nVENTIV have done one thing for us - prices=down. Not bad for a couple of garagemechanics that uses a fridge producer to assemble their product (Elcold).
No I am not trying to "backwash" them - a big and very litte economic compressor did the trick - together with "false" temperatures and "false" powerconsumption ....
nVENTIV have stated that their values are incorrect - but still they don't give us correct values ? I belive some here know why - I belive I do.....


History ?
1:Kryotech was the first with phasecooling
2: Asetek developed their first system - in 1997 with a 230V /110V compressor
3: Asetek was the first with a phase system that allowed the user to change the CPU - in "ease"
4: We - OcShoot.no - were the first to "move" a compressor to another cabinet
5: A dutch guy shows his VapoLi at Cebit - way before nVENTIV/ CHIPCON was born
6: MAXXPERT was the first with a standalone compressor cabinet
7: I'm not gonna rip up in "EU controversy" - and why ChipCon changed name to nVENTIV...

If LianLi have accepted that Asetek uses their LianLi/phase conversion that first were exposed at CeBit way before nVENTIV "was here" - well so what ?

Have nice day - and remember the #1 rule to yer alll ; stop and think.... it's still allowed... ;)

[majormav]

Originally posted by TheDude
Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him? looks like baker will be getting one too
according to a post by support2 asetek on there forum

[OcShoot]

Originally posted by TheDude
Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him?

Do I have to like you anyway :D
We have tested alle "high end" watercooling blocks and our concern was that Cathar didn't get credit for his work.

Maybe you are not to bad TheDude :banana:

Later...

[TheDude]

:D
BTW I was very sad to hear that OcShoot.com is no more as I can't understand the other site. :(

I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.

JC is very careful to always say who he is speaking for and even has it in his sig. He was a valuable staff member here long before he started at nVENTIV. He does not try to hide his employment....like I said it's in every post he makes.;)

[Gary Lloyd]

Whatever happened to Kryotech? I don't hear much about them.

[phobos]

You'll find the informations about what happened to Kryotech here (http://www.kryotech.com/menu/product/product1.asp)

[OcShoot]

Originally posted by TheDude
:D
BTW I was very sad to hear that OcShoot.com is no more as I can't understand the other site. :(

I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.

JC is very careful to always say who he is speaking for and even has it in his sig. He was a valuable staff member here long before he started at nVENTIV. He does not try to hide his employment....like I said it's in every post he makes.;)

Ok - regarding JC ( well JC ? ) - and the two guys that started ChipCon : if nothing else they HAVE been helping our "community" pricewise ;)
They have done their job very well for "us" !

Some numbers ?

Yes LS will come according Asetek CEO André and Morten from Asetek - chew on it - like it - dislike it - whatever.. this is what I got so far ;

Numbers from the new VapoChill vs. MachII - ( from the Astek Inquirer test ) ;

135W
VapoChill -32.5 on the evaporator and -18.5 in the CPU-dummy
MACHII -15 on the evaporator and +4 in the CPU-dummy (Their software shows -30)

200W
VapoChill -30 on the evaporator and -13 in the CPU-dummy
MACHII -10.5 on the evaporator and +16 in the CPU-dummy (Their software shows -24)

I am not sure if I am allowed to publish these numbers - but I have told André Sloth Eriksen that I did publish them at our own forum earlier today and after that I have recieved a couple of mails from him.
No "no no" hehe ...

And yes I know about the "new Mach" rumours - and have som inside about that too.. but it is only loose numbers - the numbers from Asetek is truthworthy.

No you didn't "pump" me dude - these numbers have been available at Diskuter.no hours ago :D - yet again - only in Norwegian....

Sorry 'bout that..


I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.

Maybe you don't know their background as I do ....

Jeah its a small world - I happen to work for a Danish company which have sent me to a lot of courses in Svendborg - Denmark....

But there are no Einstein tech ? - big compressor does the trick... but they surely missed in giving us the right specs ? And still they dont have stated correct specs - just "estimates" - no wonder - a Danish fridge producer (Elcold) is assembling MachII....

In other words - they have no R'n D department - they had Steen Hansen ; now ? And they rent a office....
Yet - they have don a "good" job for our community - and stirred up Asetek ! The days of wonder is still not finished :D

[TheDude]

OcShoot,

Thanks for the info., very interesting numbers. I will see if I get the same with the same loads on the MachII. Of course I have no way of testing the new Vapo LS and I doubt they would send me one because they don't seem to trust me to be truthful about the results.:shrug:

[OcShoot]

Originally posted by TheDude
OcShoot,

Thanks for the info., very interesting numbers. I will see if I get the same with the same loads on the MachII. Of course I have no way of testing the new Vapo LS and I doubt they would send me one because they don't seem to trust me to be truthful about the results.:shrug:

Ok friend - I edited my post so please F5 !
CU :toast:

[phobos]

Ladies and Gentlemen....finally it is official (http://www.asetek.com/)

[Marci]

£440 exc VAT... landing it at the same price as the MkII Bundle Price for those buying in the UK.

[Soulburner]

Hmm......

"240W @ -25,5° C / 0W @ -48° C"

$829 USD

[phobos]

The Mach II is about 770€ with Enlight case, CPU kit and no LCD here in germany.

So the Vapo LS is in the same price region, 799€ for Vapo LS wich includes "Lian-Li look", the CPU-Kit but no Case.

For the prommy the Lian-Li kit costst about 130€ :rolleyes:

And I like that their CPU-Kit is compatible to K8 and P4!

[baker18]

I guess , Im getting something out of this...........

quote from the vapochill forums:

"Our new evaporator design is a hybrid between different ideas, and one of the designs we got inspired from was Bakers. We acknowledge that, and he will get a VapoChill LS for free at his doorstep. It's not a copy of his design, as we improved it, but we would like to credit him for his ideas."

My next generation cpu evap will handle 200 watts of heat. This evap will only be available if you buy one of my custom units. There are alot of stuff coming so stay tune.......

baker18

[Marci]

Consider me tuned d00d...!

[st0nedpenguin]

It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...

[macci]

Does the asetek website work for you guys??

http://www.akiba-pc.com/asetek.gif

[phobos]

It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...

I don't think that it looks cheaper! And I'm sure that it's more stable because the Prommies Lian Li kit is only sticked to the original prommy housing.

Does the asetek website work for you guys??
Unluckily the website does no correctly load with "real" browsers ;) until you set the browser identification to "Internet Explorer 6 blah". I have no Firebird / Firefox here but I had the same problem in my Konqueror and Mozilla (well ok, it's the firebirds engine ;) ) until I changed the browser identification.

I posted that issue (and some other users also did that after me) in the vapochill support forums and mailed Asetek 'bout that issue but they did not care about it.

EDIT:

The site always correctly loads on Internet Explorer.

[Pandrone]

Aseteks site works here.(using IE 6.0).

[brwmogazos]

works here as well macci mate...

[texuspete00]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
There are a few custom builders in these forums who can give you much more for much less. They have put their customers in the top ranks. Yet I see forum members still pissing away their money on vapos and prommies. That's why I haven't jumped into the custom build business.

Do it. Do it! I was looking at captain cascades as were many others until he went big business. I like how you acknowledge that they dont cost enough to make to warrant these prices on prefab units. While custom work is always deserving of extra money we need a forum guru to do this that acknowledges a thousand bucks for a mach II and this vapo is absurd. We can OC some on air etc. so its hard to quantify when we would get that investment back through cheap cpus but definitely quite a while at 1 frigging k!

If someone can perfect dual evap units... we probably will be saying Nventive who and vapo what? I'm sorry but I just dont see all these customs available for sale. I've only seen chilly1 openly look for work, and captain before he went company.

[phobos]

Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!

[Master_G]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...
What are you basing that upon?
Has anyone actually seen this thing in the flesh?
I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.

G

[phobos]

I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.

Absolutely true! Full ack!

[Crankster]

i disagree, bashing is our way of showing that their behaviour is unacceptable, totally.... I don't care if you can get .1 K with this thing... A clone is a clone is clone (u get the point) I bet asetek has replaced thier full R&D with ppl reading the phasechage-forums here. Despiccable (sp?) is what it is... Thinking of taking them to t3h law when they to seden, seeing as our laws are quite strict against plagiarizing ( for example, u can't sell lindows in sweden)

Scumbags



(PS. I don't own a prommy... nor am i in any way affiliated with Nventive)

[_zZz_]

http://www.asetek.com/main/page.asp?sideid=465

guess what....it has r507 :P


The NEW VapoChill LightSpeed [AC]™ represents not only the most powerful CPU cooling system commercially available – its superiority extends to control features, upgrade flexibility, CPU-mounting mechanism, CPU support, emergency shut down features and, especially, LOWEST TEMPERATURES & MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK!

The VapoChill LightSpeed [AC]™ has been optimised for the most extreme performance by using a different coolant; R507, which is the most powerful and effective coolant for CPU heat removal. You will not only achieve the lowest possible CPU core temperatures but also an extreme overclocking potential. Unlike the rest of the VapoChill family the LightSpeed [AC]™ is based on 115/230V why it supports all motherboards.

_zZz_

[TheDude]

There is very little performance difference between 507 and 404a. Fine tuning makes more of a difference.

[phobos]

Crankster:

Why can you say it's just a clone? Only because it looks like a lian-li-prommy?

If you build a unit that fits under an existing PC case it will always look a little bit like a prommy. And if you give it a lian li - finish it'll of course look like a prommy with lian li kit.
Everybody knows that the lian li cases are very popular so why shouldn't they produce a compatible phase change unit? only because a competitor did that before?

Well, they could have located the display anywhere else, maybe at the bottom, to let it look a little bit different but anybody would always say it would look like a clone.

[coldfusion71]

well i will be selling my mach1 as soon as this comes out if it performs well.

[hollywood]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III :D

I was just thinking this:

If nVENTIV manages to produce a unit that does the same thing as the MachII/Vapo LS at a cost of less than $350.00 US Dollars...the phasechange war will be won.

If you get prices that low...market saturation will go from around 3% of OCers worldwide to prolly about 40% if not more.

[st0nedpenguin]

Originally posted by Master_G
What are you basing that upon?
Has anyone actually seen this thing in the flesh?
I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.

G

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/MGTDSTRA/18793/228050/0/P2_LightSpeed.gifif

I don't need to see it in the flesh, the Prommi Lian Li kit manages to match up the position and numbering of its grille holes with the Lian Li case, according to pictures from Asetek themselves, this doesn't...

[Turbo]

Originally posted by baker18
I guess , Im getting something out of this...........

quote from the vapochill forums:

"Our new evaporator design is a hybrid between different ideas, and one of the designs we got inspired from was Bakers. We acknowledge that, and he will get a VapoChill LS for free at his doorstep. It's not a copy of his design, as we improved it, but we would like to credit him for his ideas."

My next generation cpu evap will handle 200 watts of heat. This evap will only be available if you buy one of my custom units. There are alot of stuff coming so stay tune.......

baker18

asetek should put *Designed/Inspired by Baker18 from XtremeSystems.org* on every box that utlizes your evap design. :D

[CCW]

Originally posted by Turbo
asetek should put *Designed/Inspired by Baker18 from XtremeSystems.org* on every box that utlizes your evap design. :D

:toast:

[Crankster]

Phobos, evidently i see something you don't see or the other way around... Considering the market asetek is aming for, (IE overclockers) and may of them hang aroun here, this is extremely close to a facial slap IMHO..

[Gleep]

Ok, only one question. How accurate is the displayed temp? After the big stink raised by asetek about the mach displays being so inaccurate (and they are inaccurate) lets see if they were willing to build an accurate unit instead of an inaccurate unit that displays low temps just to sell units. The first person to hookup a fluke (or other themometer with better than +/-.3% accuracy) to a vapochill LS can prove or disprove this.

[phobos]

Here is the official reply by Asetek regarding the Prommy-Li like look:

3. Since the first entrance of Lian Li cases on the market, people have been building in their VapoChill unit. Furthermore the original idea of building a compressor into a Lian Li styled box under the PC was done by a case modder from Holland, for a system for CeBIT. When nVENTIV saw that, they "adopted" his idea. So there is really nothing new into this either.

you can find the full text here (http://forum.vapochill.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=39620#post39620).

[Crankster]

Didn't know about that one i must confess... Now i will scour the web for counterweapons

[phobos]

Now i will scour the web for counterweapons
...against Asetek? :confused:

[texuspete00]

Originally posted by phobos
Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!

Um no... maybe reread my post? I didnt say that either. I said one must keep in mind that they cost too much already. This was a statement I was essentially agreeing with and reiterating from one of our guru's. Lets say custom work should cost DOUBLE or triple. Ok fair enough. Anyone going to pay 2 grand?

The person I was directing my comment towards, Gary Lloyd, seem to be implying that forum members could make better customs that were more worth the money at least. All those guys are great - I'm sure they can. He might have even implied it could be price competitive but my only comment was this.... I dont see our refridgeration gurus going at this. I was very intersted in a custom captain cascade made unit and so were others. I'd be happy to take a look at XS'ers unit.

So basically to summarize, it was asked why people are buying up prommies and vapos when there are reasonable alternatives. Being in the market for a mach I.... show me! An honest request from someone who doesnt want to be in the category of the so-called silly guys who should have gotten a custom from XS. I dont see my choice in the matter and I dont feel comfortable asking around. "Hey will you make me..."

[bowman1964]

Well i guess i have stayed out long enought..:)

ok guys for one i am glad the new vapo is comming out and am happy to see it.competiton is great for everyone...:D

as far as who coppied who...well i am not getting into that one.but vapos were out a long time ago.

as fas as the baker blocks we have been working on..well i think asetek giving baker one was a nice thing..
you know they didnt have to do a thing.but instead they are shipping him a new light speed as soon as they have a 115v available to the states.that was a pretty nice thing to do.baker and i both know its real easy to change one small thing and copy it legally so thats no big deal...and was sorta exspected..
but them stepping up to the plate and giving him a new unit was nice...

as far as how much heat they can handle..

well the proms and the vapos new or old can give be measured in so many differant ways it isnt funny...
i can take one 150 watt heat load and kill a mach II but take that same 150 watts of heat and hold at -20 or so..it is all in how they are applied..so lets not worry about how much heat they advertise they can remove...

in the new month..april i will hopefully be doing a excate test on the new unit...i will be using a old mach II and a old vapo xe and hope fully a new unit or 2 ...(lightspeed maybe and new mach II)i am hoping.as far as i know i have a new mach II coming and hopefully have a new lightspeed)

i will showing excate heat loads and how i can munipulate the heat loads to show what i want...but i will show the loads applied and how they fair also on a real cpu.

but i will show how i do it and what each is really doing.then i hope to place each with the same cpu/motherboard,and do a windows test..
by using the same hardwear to test ..i eliminate any diffeances between cpus and motherboards...so i will be testing apples to apples..and we will see..

so if you guys want a real test....i hope to be doing one soon..


as far as i know this would be the first test ever between the 2 giants in the cooling arena...plus i have the tools to measure real heat applied.so we will see...

i would like to say more but untill i know for sure the hardwear is on the way..i better not..

but i am a unbiased person..i only care about facts and cooling...i am not going to say any bad words about either product.as i am just going to give my results and let the results speak for themself...i personally like both companys

so how many want a real test done on the units....?

[Master_G]

I for one do, a test by you Bowman would be the definitive review of phase change cooling on the web IMO.

G

[phobos]

Bowman, I can't wait to read your test :D

but i am a unbiased person..i only care about facts and cooling...i am not going to say any bad words about either product.as i am just going to give my results and let the results speak for themself...i personally like both companys


Exactly my opinion bowman.
But I don't like people b1tching companies like it was done above.

I owned two classic vapos and a PE and now I own a Mach I.

All of these were great products and support was great at both companies.

I'll always buy the system with the best bang for the buck, no matter wich company produces it ;)

[texuspete00]

Ditto. edit: in reference to Master_G post.

Yep, that way I wouldn't have to read any other reviews of the units or separate forum fact and fiction.

[Slickthellama]

who gives a rat's ass how it looks? We all know that current vapochill units look like pregnant penguins, and now you are complaining? Gimme a break. If it costs less than the Mach II especially with the Lian Li case then I dont see what is wrong, especially if it performs better. Competition is good, what encouragement would nVentive have to make a better product if there was no competition??? None, they can sit around and never improve and people will continue to buy their product. No updates, competition is good for progression, end of story.

[phobos]

Slickthellama:

That's exactly how it is ;)

Btw: I love that movie...... :D

[Friar Tuck]

Looking forward to the test, Bowman.. :)


The sooner, the better.. :)



FT.

[brwmogazos]

well

I dont think all that noise about whos copying who would have ever started if all that big thread about asetek blaming nventiv etc was never started...

I personally dont think EITHER that asetek would have shipped an LS unit to baker if this thread was never started either...i may be wrong though.

Its all that background that seems a bit wrong with their new product launch that has made people a bit upset etc...

For me it all started with the new antartica...or LRWW block...

then the thread in XS about asetek vs nVENTIV...

now with their new product launch...

One followed by the other...

[Phyrox]

I just want to point one thing out....nVentiv will have a good comeback up their sleeeve for sure. So I suggest you wait. Now im going to give you guys a clue. There is a cebit show ocmming up and nventiv is going to participate. now this show features new products -- so do you really think nventiv will be showcasing their mach2 again? NO! so ther you have it. from here on in just use common sense..

also itsn ot very easy for nventiv to make a r404a cooling unit. the problem is that nventiv is ISO certified and they need approval before they begin manafacturing a r404a cooling system and it takes about 6months to get this approval. asetek is not iso certified and that way they do whatever they want..nventiv does things right.....

atm seems asetek is looking appealing. the "Stoc" LS will feature a lianli bottom case whicb saves you about $180 (if you decided to buy a mk2 + lianli mod). those who already have the pc65 just snap it right on and your good to go. sure those who are using r404a/r502/r507 modded mk1/2's should hold on to their units because they will perform on par with the LS however the LS will make a good first phase change system for someone. asetek has to be accurate with their temps after all of the flaming they did about nventivs temps.

well as always i talked to my reseller friends and this unit is going to be CHEAP! going to be approx 850~870 shipped from my pals. will post the link once its up. dont want to make any empty promises. :toast:

im going to be completely honest here...i know no one really cares but my mk2 is going. thing is still sealed in the box so im going to get rid of it asap and pick a LS up! w00t! going to get 2x..one for cpu and the other for gpu -- looks like that it will be vry easy to mount this on my 9800xt :toast:

[TheDude]

I will be happy to see Bowman test both units also. No one is more qualified or more unbiased.

BTW I should mention that I may have made a mistake in an earlier post when I stated that asetek said they were sending Cathar an LS. I went back looking for that post and all I found was the one about Baker, so I'm sorry if I got them confused. I really thought I saw posts about them both....my apologies to Cathar and asetek for my mistake.:shrug:

[The Mofo]

Im so all over that Lightspeed unit.

I just ordered a Lian Li PC-75. It will house the watercooling unit for my system until i can get one of the Lightspeeds. Ill just watercool the Radeon from there on out after the Lightspeed is in my hands.

Question.. How much power do these phase change units suck up? How big of a dent did it place on your electricity bill? I leave my computer on for days at a time.

[OPPAINTER]

I for one want one of these new rigs, utilizing the baker block should allow the unit to hold an overclock pretty nicely, wise choice on asetek's part, can't wait to try one:D

OPP

[Gary Lloyd]

Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!

Custom builders buy their components from wholesale distributors. Given volume, they could buy direct from the manufacturers. But even without the volume, I think they can beat those prices. Hopefully one of them will show up, and speak for himself.

Personally, if I were going to jump into it, I would build a cheap chiller. I like chillers, they are more versatile, and I think there is more of a market for them. Frozen methanol, anyone?

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Phyrox
IThere is a cebit show ocmming up and nventiv is going to participate. now this show features new products...


Anybody heard anything else about CeBIT (http://www.cebit.de/homepage_e?x=1)? I heard a few things last week that just SCREAM this is going to happen. I also heard something about Tom's "record" being challenged but that was more of a rumor-rumor. ;)

At any rate, it should be a great few months coming up for both camps.

[cpulloverclock]

yeah ^^^soon a great fight between Nventiv & Asetek

MACH II ST VS VAPOCHILL LS

three, two, one

goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[texuspete00]

Need even more competition. I'd like a US firm to come up. Imagine, if something went wrong I could actually have it repaired by the manufacturer. :eek: Not to mention pretty much anything around here with compressor based cooling is downright cheap. Dont see how with enough volume they could cost much to get the components. Bring on the $300 units! Not that only the states could do this, i'm just daydreaming now of how easy that would make things for me ;)

Plus these companies, stories I've read, they dont seem so freindly with flaky busted stuff even if you do pack it up and ship it around the globe. i.e. Broken cap tube - Prom. Whats up with that? Better give people some flexible hoses if you are going to grow your customer base. If sales of equipment like this start to grow, has there been a simultaneous raised level of overclocking know-how and skill ? Obviously not.

[Phyrox]

LoL toms "record"....anyone with a basic knowledge of overclocking and money can EASILY beet him at anything besides photochopping and altering benchmark scores :)

Nice to see that Opp is intrested in the LS as well...Well as for me I do not need to wait for bowman or anyone elese to get this first. Im diving in!

[G H Z]

I wonder how big the evap die is on this thing. The Mach I's only covers about 70% on the A64 heatspreader and is offset as well. Hmm, is the Mach II/ST's any bigger?

[Minnyboy]

They're about 100 euros cheaper than the Vapo XE...

/me thinks about going "LIGHT SPEED"
/looks over at both Classic & PE

Nah, not yet me thinks, gotta mod the Classic first, wait for some results before splurging again.....:( :( :( :(

[captaincascade]

One way or another, I will be in this battle as well.

I honestly believe that i make the best coolers in existance, and i have the results to prove this. That is why it is very strange to me that niether of the two major manufacturers (vapochill, promy) have made any atempt to contact me. I don't know who their chief designer is, but i think he could use a little help.

From seeing both units in action, i can say i am less than impressed. Niether company has made any effort what so ever to develop better technology. If you are reading this, I have something to say to you: There are better ways of doing this! They are just busy counting thier money.(edit; honestly i think that the promy and the vapochill are very reasonably priced)


When i build a system, my primary concern is the system. Not the profit. I'd say the only reason either company is lowwering the prices is in hopes of crippleing the competition so they can raise the prices.

I will find a way to offer you, the ocing comunity,the best cooling that money can buy and at reasonable prices.

I have alot of work to do.
As was my concern in the buisness of ultra low temperature freezer service and design.
My concern shall remain in the buisness of computer cooling.
Reputation as being one of the best in the world.

oh, and i wouldn't buy either of them :D

[isp]

Look forward to having the choice of a CC cooling system... :D

[JBELL]

Originally posted by TheDude
You have to admit it's pretty funny that the new Vapo looks exactly like a MachII with some extra holes drilled in the side panel. Before they looked nothing alike at all.
It looks to me like they just copied the MachII and regassed it with 404? Not sure about which gas they used?
Competition is good, but lets have some NEW products and NEW ideas.
Before I am accused of being biased.....I would feel the same way if nVENTIV rolled out a "New" product that looked just like a Vapochill. Who wouldn't? :rolleyes:

#1 nVentiv doesn't need to copy asetek

#2 anyone inteligent enough would not copy so blantly..

#3 your the least bias person I know..

#4 all fair when the equipment looks 100% the same right?

[JBELL]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You either put the unit above or below. If you use a heavier compressor, you put it below, so the whole thing won't be top heavy. If you put it below, there isn't much choice on where the hose comes up to go to the CPU. Does that make it a clone? I don't think so.

Better performance at a lower price.

Good job, Asetek. :toast:


explain the looks then and all the similarities to the baker block.....

good job asetek - you CAN color in the lines....

[captaincascade]

Does this look like a copy?

[`schr0et]

Originally posted by captaincascade
Does this look like a copy?

No... that looks like a whole lot of sexy :slobber:

[Peen]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Custom builders buy their components from wholesale distributors. Given volume, they could buy direct from the manufacturers. But even without the volume, I think they can beat those prices. Hopefully one of them will show up, and speak for himself.

Personally, if I were going to jump into it, I would build a cheap chiller. I like chillers, they are more versatile, and I think there is more of a market for them. Frozen methanol, anyone?

EXCATLY! -40C on y our CPU, NB and GPU! thats why ima build one

[chilly1]

Couple of things ,a properly modded r134A system changed to R507/404 will run at the same compressor temperatures or close. If it is running hot enough to trip the internal overload then it is not modded properly.

And second, I am working on a cascade system for around 1200 that will get you 200W at -95C under (200W) load. With a 1 year warrentee on the compressors. It will be built with 2- fractional hoursepower compressors and will be capable of 24 hour operation. Of course this will be the nonadjustable version on and off no temp guages. I will have a dual head system (cascade for around 1500 based on the same design only scaled up. I am also working on a complete moisture condensation system.

[G H Z]

This is a Mach II
http://www.chip-con.com/log/146.JPG

Sorry, but I don't see the similarities. Yes nVentiv also offer's the Lian Li kit, and apparently the full case now, but the Lian Li is not nVentiv's design, simply a case maker that they chose to partner with. If nVentiv wanted to exclude any other supercooling manufacturer from using that case then maybe they should have arranged that with Lian Li before hand, or simply chose someone else.

[captaincascade]

Originally posted by chilly1
Couple of things ,a properly modded r134A system changed to R507/404 will run at the same compressor temperatures or close. If it is running hot enough to trip the internal overload then it is not modded properly.

And second, I am working on a cascade system for around 1200 that will get you 200W at -95C under (200W) load. With a 1 year warrentee on the compressors. It will be built with 2- fractional hoursepower compressors and will be capable of 24 hour operation. Of course this will be the nonadjustable version on and off no temp guages. I will have a dual head system (cascade for around 1500 based on the same design only scaled up. I am also working on a complete moisture condensation system.

Be very careful chilly, 600 outa that 1200 better be spent on safety devices. Only reason i sold 1 of mine was because the guy lives so close, and if there was a problem i could take care of it easily.

second i think we are getting a little off subject

[kommando]

Commerical phase change are great for people who just cant be bothered but people who want the the challenge on building there own can it do it for cheaper. Its basically to build your own you kinnda need to be experianced and have access to vacum pumps and refrigant.

I think waterchillers are preety good for what they can do and that is why i am building one :)

[captaincascade]

The only trade that requires more tools than a refrigeration tech is a car mechanic.

Refigeration techs are: electricians, metal workers, plummers, carpenters, thermal dynamic engineers, general construction workers, and a whole lot of other things. I alone have 10,000$ worth of tools, so i can do my job right.

This is som