FX5900XT Vmod, anyone?

[TodB]

Is there somebody with a FX5900XT that knows the Vmods?

In particular those with the Intersil ISL6522..... I got one Gigabyte FX5900XT, using two ISL6522.... I think for both memory and GPU...

Any info? at least what pot range? 200k, 100k, 50k? :rolleyes: :)

[TodB]

Not a single person with a Vmodded 5900XT?!? :confused:

[Garrett]

http://www.ocforums.com/archive/thread/267604-1.html
This is an interesting thread of a guy who obviously vmodded his 5900XT and he did even manage to fry his card in the process :D

The vmod on the GPU is on the ISL chip. Pin 5 to ground. At 15K Ohms the voltage increases from the stock setting of 1.45 to 1.5v. Ran it up to 7.54K Ohms and got 1.55v. This allowed me to bench at 525/976 on 2001 and 520/976 on 2003. Cooling has still not been modded as of yet so I did not take it any farther. Ran the mod on the 6012 chip however got heavy artifacting even though it would run up to 525/1009. This indicates to me (at least as of this time) that the ram is not up to the task of running at those speeds. Without the vmod with the card at 525/990 it would kick down to the slower speeds seen in 2D. For now 976 will have to suffice and I will not leave the 6012 mod in place. Now for the results.

Ran the voltage up to 1.65v on the GPU. This achieved 535/976. Not bad for the 5900XT. Brought up 2003 and started running it. Scores where looking really good however I was somewhat alarmed when about half way through the artifact free run, there was a spectacular ball of flame and sparks that came from the vid card. We are talking a rather large ball of fire. Really brightened up the room it did. One of the benefits of testing at night is the spectacular fire works show. For those unaware, this really is not a desired effect. I now have a very burned, eight leg chip (id unknown due to the numbers being burned off), located next to the ram, towards the end of the card on the front side. Seems that though the GPU can handle the voltage, there appears to be a circuit that can not on the 5900xt. Too bad as the in the first test, when the fighter is firing, the fps got up to 1,000. Would have been a good run however it needed to complete it without frying the card.

At any rate no further damage done to the computer and presently have a backup 4200 in it.
I hope this helps you, and me too, because yes, I'm looking for a GPU Vmod too for my Club3D 5900XT ;)

[Snot aap]

Here it is:
http://www.ocforums.com/vb/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224400&highlight=volt
Have fun

[Garrett]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2495997#post2495997 is the "original" thread on the pieces I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong

[TodB]

Well that info is something, but...... not enough... that guy says some, but I need more info.... measuring points, etc...

Send him a PM, we'll see...

[Hud stromar]

I'm looking for that Volt mod too.

Here are some pictures of the card, how it looks
Front:
http://epsilon.sloweb.net/150pr8_5900XT-1-1.jpg

Back:
http://epsilon.sloweb.net/1nfi9s_5900XT-2-1.jpg

I think that all the important IC's are marked with red numbers.

IIRC the nuber 1 and 2 on the back of the card are Intersil's ISL6522

If anybody knows more than I do, the help would be more than welcome

:cool:

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Im getting one this thursday so Ill check it out ;)

[XanderF]

Awesome, let us know what you find!

I have some ramsinks on order and another radiator for my WC setup. I figure I'll probably be taking the whole thing apart for 'upgrades' again this weekend, and a workable vMod on the graphics card would be awesome!

(I had to pull the work I did to date - didn't seem to offer any additional speed on the little resistence I dropped, and no way to read the voltage, so I didn't want to push it)

That auto-slowdown thing is really pissing me off, though. No way to know what the real, running, clock is!

Is there any program that, while running complicated 3d tests, could display the current core clock in some corner of the screen or something?

nVidia's Coolbits overclock control SEEMS to know when it is 'too far' on memory. But, it's allowing core clocks that, in use, it decides it needs to reduce. That's kinda annoying, I want to know what my card's limits REALLY are!

(Right now I'm running 485/780 on it. 800 was possible on the mem before removing the stock HSF to put on a waterblock, I imagine it will be again when I add some ramsinks and a card cooler blowing at it. Still, sometimes the core clock seems to drop.)

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Dont you think that forcing older dets to work on the card would fix the auto-slowdown thingie ?

[XanderF]

Perhaps, but the reason I sold my 9800 for this card was that I prefer nVidia's drivers a lot.

Especially since I've tried the 56.56, I've been hooked. I LOVE that application profile application through auto-detection. I'm sure ATI will copy this - at least, I hope, lest my next upgrade be a very one-sided decision.

I think I used the 45.23 before with good effect. That, at least, had FSAA that worked in 'Raven Shield' - the 56.56 breaks that. The official 53.03s (current WHQL) just break WAY too many games for me to use.

What drivers would you recommend? I could certainly try them!

(As an aside, I have no way of knowing....for sure....that this is what is happening. It just seems during very intense 3d scenes that my video card just stops for a while - say, 30 seconds or so - and when it starts up again the framerate is much lower. From what I understand, that's a symptom of the card auto-downclocking. During cool periods of the day, it doesn't seem to happen - and, if I run it at 475 instead of 485, it seems okay as well.)

[OperativeSix]

Originally posted by XanderF

(As an aside, I have no way of knowing....for sure....that this is what is happening. It just seems during very intense 3d scenes that my video card just stops for a while - say, 30 seconds or so - and when it starts up again the framerate is much lower. From what I understand, that's a symptom of the card auto-downclocking. During cool periods of the day, it doesn't seem to happen - and, if I run it at 475 instead of 485, it seems okay as well.)

Textbook description of the 5900 cards throttling back the core speeds. I'm curious as to how it determines the scale-back speed, though. I know it doesn't default back to 300mhz (like in 2D mode), as when I clock the core at 500mhz with poor cooling, it will throttle to ~370mhz. Seeing as it clocks from 400mhz to 300mhz default, it could very well just be 75% of the default speed. Perhaps this could be another way around the throttle, by just setting the clock speed 33% above what you want it to be?

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Originally posted by OperativeSix
Textbook description of the 5900 cards throttling back the core speeds. I'm curious as to how it determines the scale-back speed, though. I know it doesn't default back to 300mhz (like in 2D mode), as when I clock the core at 500mhz with poor cooling, it will throttle to ~370mhz. Seeing as it clocks from 400mhz to 300mhz default, it could very well just be 75% of the default speed. Perhaps this could be another way around the throttle, by just setting the clock speed 33% above what you want it to be?

Hmmm that might be it ! until now my card havent throttled back yet and im running my 5900XT at 480mhz and 781mhz

[TodB]

Weird..... I checked all the capacitors on my GB FX5900XT and the close ones showed around 2.5V..... I got 2 side by side capacitors, both measuring 2.53V.... ain't that quite low for a Vmem?!?

The Vcore showed 1.43V...

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Can you take some pics as where to measure the voltages ?

[TodB]

Well... no problems.... I'm sure about the Vcore, but the Vdimm is on hold.... I'm going to snap it now, so we can discuss about....

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Allright Im looking forward to seeing it :)

[TodB]

OK, here's the GPU Voltage reading point.... will check the DDR reading point tomorrow :)

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Thx d00d! btw have you vmodded it yet ?

[TodB]

Well... yeah..... the 3D Vgpu jumped from 1.43V to 1.59V and the GPU freq jumped from 480MHz to 535MHz... that with the present cooling, of course :)

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Nice I need details right now! mine does 500mhz stock gpu cooling...and I have a Volcano 12 right here that just needs to be mounted

[TodB]

Well the second ISL6522 chip on my card seems to control the Vddq voltage.... I'm not 100% sure, but I think there's no way that 2.8ns memory will run 800MHz/2.5V....

I'm left with one last chip on the back of the card, will test it later..... if I find an info about....

[XanderF]

Excellant, and be sure to post pics of where to mod and what you did!

I think I had made some headware, but it was a false start. I'll be pulling my card out again next week to add ramsinks, and I'd like to vMod it while out.

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

TodB cant you post the vgpu mod so far ?

[macci]

Anyone got problems flashing 5950 bios on these 5900xt cards??
I've got the albatron 5900xt model (runs 3dmark03 at 525/803 with stock cooler 1.59V Vgpu) and flashed the leadtek 5950 bios in there. It boots up fine and reads 5950 in the bootup but WinXP is all phucked. 4bit colors etc :D at some point it gave some 'no enough resources' error. Anyone seen this? how to fix it??

[macci]

Vgpu mod for 5900XT:

http://www.akiba-pc.com/e107_images/articles/alba5900xt/vgpu_5900xt.jpg
Connect that pin to GND via VR. 3.76kOhm gives 1.6V on my card.

[macci]

I tried the Vmem mod too from 2.86V to 3.3V and it didn't help anything at all btw (its the second ISL pin 5 to GND).

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Hmmmm I havent tried that yet....but thats mainly because my mem only runs at 770 but my core is good for 500mhz stock vgpu n' stock cooler.....Macci I was wondering If you couldnt post a pic of the vmem mod? I would greatly appreciate it...I think that you problem is caused by the mem speed on the 5950 cards, because the run at 850mhz dont they ? have you tried clocking the mem down ?

[macci]

5950s run at 950 mem IIRC the 5900ultra runs 850. Ive tried both of those BIOSes and neither of em works. I just get some 'device cannot find resources' error in winxp control panel and the desktop screen is useing 4bit colors :D Flash back to albatron 5900XT and it works normally.
Rivatuner wont see the card at all so no way to lower the clockspeeds.
I've read that people w/ LEadtek 5900XT (it has 2.8ns hynix just like this card) have succesfully flashed to 5950 and are able to run the RAM at way above 900MHz.

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

My card has 2.8NS sammy mem...maybe the leadtek cards have more relaxed timings ? btw could you be so kind and post a pic of the mem vmod ?

[TodB]

Originally posted by macci
I tried the Vmem mod too from 2.86V to 3.3V and it didn't help anything at all btw (its the second ISL pin 5 to GND).

Man, I was almost certain that there's something foooking wrong with that... got the mod too, but almost no improvement at all....

But then again, where do you measure the Vdimm? Cuz the closest I can get with that Gigabyte is around 2.53V... with the mod I'm getting it up to 2.81V.... and that helps for around 20MHz or so... :rolleyes:

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Wanna give me some info on that mod ? :P

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Btw I have completely forget how to measure the capacitators...should I measure on both legs or should I measure the + pin and ground ?

[HaLDoL]

I have 2 Point of View cards, one with a red pcb does 530/777 on stock cooling (it has samsung 2.8ns memory) and the other one has a black pcb and it does 530/945 stock (it has 2.2ns Hynix memory).

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

I also have the one with a red pcb...which unfortunately seems to be sucky :P

[XanderF]

I've read that people w/ LEadtek 5900XT (it has 2.8ns hynix just like this card) have succesfully flashed to 5950 and are able to run the RAM at way above 900MHz.

That's the "lazy man's vmod". Over on the ocforums, IIRC, someone tested the voltage before and after BIOS flashes.

Apparently, the 5950 BIOS does provide about .2v more to core and mem. (Harder to test, but evident by initial lower scores at the same clock and higher possible clocks, is that the 5950 BIOS *also* reduces timings on the memory. Both things that lead to much-higher-than-anticipated memory clocks.)

The thing about these cards is that the voltage is 'software' controlled. For 'safe', '2d', and '3d' modes, it offers 3 different voltage levels - and, as noted - a BIOS flash can change them.

It seems pretty obvious someone could write a program to access that directly from Windows, if they were so inclined.
Connect that pin to GND via VR. 3.76kOhm gives 1.6V on my card.
Pin 7 on that chip is ground, right?

[XanderF]

I tried the Vmem mod too from 2.86V to 3.3V and it didn't help anything at all btw (its the second ISL pin 5 to GND).

What resistance did you use for this? And what voltage is 'stock'?

These are the pins I tried to use! According to this document (http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn9030.pdf), for the ISL chip, pin 5 is feedback (as you are proving) and pin 7 is ground.

Yet, stock (unmodded), I measured .73 kOhm resistance between these two points! Shouldn't the FB pin to ground pin be 0.0 resistance?

[OperativeSix]

Have you tried editing the BIOS's at all to change vendor ID's, or other such info macci? Hardclocking the card back down to XT speeds might fix something.

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

I was thinking....doesnt the 5950 have 256mb of mem ? and the FX5900Xt only have 128mb couldnt this be the problem ? because when ppl with the 9800pros flash to an 9800XT bios they get alot of problems because of that ?

[XanderF]

doesnt the 5950 have 256mb of mem ? and the FX5900Xt only have 128mb couldnt this be the problem

No, the BIOS on the FX cards doesn't control how much memory the card is looking for. It's almost PC-like: on bootup, it detects how much ram is 'installed' and uses that for the card.

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Oh allright....btw when measuring the Vgpu on the card...should i only hook one of the wires on my multimeter up to the capacitator and one to ground ?

[macci]

I tried bios editing but the only tool Ive got (NV BIOS editor) cannot mod the clocks speeds on FX5900 series. Anyone got links to better bios editing tools/modded FX5900 bios files?

XanderF, Yes pin 7 is GND there. My card was at 2.86V stock for Vmem. I used a 15kOhm VR for starters and lowered the value until it was at 3.3V Vmem - which didn't help the RAM oc at all.
The original resistance from pin 5 to GND is around 0.7kOhm and once we solder a VR in parallel w/ that the resistance gets lower and voltage goes up.

[TodB]

Originally posted by macci
My card was at 2.86V stock for Vmem.

Man, you didn't say anything about the Vdimm reading point?? :confused:

[macci]

Basically any SMD cap near the memchips

[TodB]

Didn't think of it that way... hmmmmm...

Just for the record - those two are showing some voltage change when I'm lowerin' the resistance on the second ISL chip.... can you check them too? Just for an opinion....
I'll check the SMDs right away....

[TodB]

Damn, I forgot the pic:

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Oh allright....btw when measuring the Vgpu on the card...should i only hook one of the wires on my multimeter up to the capacitator and one to ground ?

[TodB]

Yes... one of the to ground (black cable on the MOLEX conectors) and the other in the desired spot...

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Alright thx....could you post a pic of the vmem mod ?

[XanderF]

XanderF, Yes pin 7 is GND there. My card was at 2.86V stock for Vmem. I used a 15kOhm VR for starters and lowered the value until it was at 3.3V Vmem - which didn't help the RAM oc at all.
The original resistance from pin 5 to GND is around 0.7kOhm and once we solder a VR in parallel w/ that the resistance gets lower and voltage goes up.

Right, so I was doing the right thing.

Probably my resistor was too high, though. I'm use to ATI cards that seem to take 13kOhm and up, so I 'made' a 20kOhm pots by soldering together a 10kOhm pots and a 10kOhm resistor.

Downside, of course, is that I can't do less than 10kOhm that way.

What resistance are you using on it now? If less than 10, I'll just use the 10kOhm pots on its own for both vMods. Easy enough to do.

[Garrett]

Originally posted by XanderF
Yet, stock (unmodded), I measured .73 kOhm resistance between these two points! Shouldn't the FB pin to ground pin be 0.0 resistance? I don't hope so... it would fry the card... it would be the same as to CONNECT these 2 pins :D

Anyway... what VR should I get for the VGPU mod? 10K? 5K?
I'm about to tear off the HS and watercool this sucka so if I can vmod it at the same time it would just be as easy, eh? ;)

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Damn I cant wait to vmod this sucker :P

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Hey Macci how much do you think that this card can score in 3dmark01 ?

[Garrett]

I'm not Macci but why don't you try the Futuremark Project Search & Compare option ;)

By the way guys, if I choose to voltmod the GPU, will there be another chip like a voltregulator or something that will get hotter too?
I can put a small heatsink on about any chip so IF that's necessary please tell me which one it is... :stick:

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

I tried Vmodding mine yesterday and it died....first I added a molex connecter from an old broken psu to check the vgpu...booted up and it worked fine reported 1.23 while in 2d mode and 1.43 in 3d mode....I turned of my pc and added the vr to the pin on the isl chip and grounded it on the black wire from the molex connector on the card, the exact same grounding point as the vgpu monitor and I plugged the card back in...making sure that all connections was OK, turned on the pc....the card was making some weird noises and the fan wasnt running and my multimeter was going nuts! and I double checked that my VR was at 0ohm.....just died! well its rma time, luckily I did the mod really clean...so Ill try again as soon as I get a new card...btw would you mind posting some pics of your cards modded ? , so that I have the possibility to check what I did wrong

[Garrett]

Originally posted by Bra!nFreeZe^
I tried Vmodding mine yesterday and it died....first I added a molex connecter from an old broken psu to check the vgpu...booted up and it worked fine reported 1.23 while in 2d mode and 1.43 in 3d mode....I turned of my pc and added the vr to the pin on the isl chip and grounded it on the black wire from the molex connector on the card, the exact same grounding point as the vgpu monitor and I plugged the card back in...making sure that all connections was OK, turned on the pc....the card was making some weird noises and the fan wasnt running and my multimeter was going nuts! and I double checked that my VR was at 0ohm.....just died! well its rma time, luckily I did the mod really clean...so Ill try again as soon as I get a new card...btw would you mind posting some pics of your cards modded ? , so that I have the possibility to check what I did wrong
You tried to voltmod your card with a VR set to 0 ohm? OMG!!! :eek: :eek:
If that's what you did it's no surprise it died, you need to set the VR to its maximum and SLOWLY reduce the resistance, thus upping the voltage... NEVER start at 0 ohm!!

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

Damn I misunderstood! :( some vmods you have to raise the resistance so the vreg thinks that it doesnt supply enough voltage!! well Ill remember that the next time :P

[Garrett]

Well I voltmodded it too... 3.68Kohm and a nice 1.63v in 3D mode... :)
Hmmm a pretty big increase in core speed if you ask me...
478 before the mod, and 542 after!! :eek: :eek:

[TodB]

Originally posted by Bra!nFreeZe^
Damn I misunderstood! :( some vmods you have to raise the resistance so the vreg thinks that it doesnt supply enough voltage!! well Ill remember that the next time :P

Well it's always from MAX to MIN and never the other way around.... like that you gave your GPU like... u-u-uhm.....around 3V....

[Bra!nFreeZe^]

No wonder it died then :) well Im getting a new one next week and if Im lucky...it comes along with a shuttle SN45G :)

[HaLDoL]

A 5k VR set to 4.03 gave me a 0.1V increase. I could reach easily 600Mhz on the core in 3D. Didn't test it higher, breaking the 600Mhz barrier is enough for now. :)

[TodB]

Well I don't think, that you'll reach 600MHz GPU with a 5900XT.... that's kindda on the unbelievable side.... :rolleyes:

Not without supercooling...

[HaLDoL]

Yeah I know it's unbelievable, but it's true. And with plain aircooling.
http://kaine.studentenweb.org/PoV/PoV9.jpg

Here's a 3dmark run @ 600/900
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2218827 (edit: link not valid anymore)

I could reach 543 without vmod. So it's a good core, maybe a fx5950 ultra one

[macci]

Are you getting linear improvement when going from stock clocks to those 600/900 clocks (test after every 10MHz jump on GPU and make sure the score goes up)? it seems to me your card might be "throttling" there.

Your card at 600/900 = GT4 of 41.8FPS
Mine at 526/803 = GT4 of 44FPS
And that is a very GPU dependant test.

I did have the D3D settings set to 'high performance' but still it shouldn't make such a huge difference..

[HaLDoL]

so you're saying that I might get a better score if I downclock it a bit?

I raised the voltage with 0.2V and the best I could do is 606Mhz on the core. I got 7246 3dmarks but still only 43.9 on GT4

[Contra]

cool guys, but can't you up your voltage in the mobo's BIOS ?

i am prob. wrong

[macci]

the best I could do is 606Mhz on the core. I got 7246 3dmarks but still only 43.9 on GT4
I guess thats about right for the system you are running :)
Nice clock and score.

I got my Albatron mem from 803MHz (minor artifacts) to 911MHz (100% clean, will bench at 936 easily) by removing the small ramsinks and flashing Leadtek 5900XT BIOS in. ;)
Now I need to try if the vmod and improved ram cooling will help...

[Garrett]

Hmmm... if the card in your photo is actually yours Macci, the blue one, then I have the same one as you, only sold by another vendor called Club3D...
I got the XFX 5900XT bios in it now, since the memory will go higher then, 820mhz artifactfree, 840 rains artifacts :D and I'm curious if the Leadtek XT bios works for me...

Some bioses appear to work, but if your computer has been powered down and you power up again, just when you would reach the windows desktop the screen would stay black...

The XFX bios didn't have that problem, maybe I should try the Leadtek... so Macci could you please mail that bios to me?

Also... do you think a mem vmod would make difference?
I've heard rumours of the mem crapping out on peeps and/or not helping much anyway

Mine's vmodded with the 5K set to 3.68 and gives me 1.63v in 3dmode :)
542 core that's what it will do with app. 6900 3dmark03 points :)

[Beastlock]

Originally posted by macci
Are you getting linear improvement when going from stock clocks to those 600/900 clocks (test after every 10MHz jump on GPU and make sure the score goes up)? it seems to me your card might be "throttling" there.

Your card at 600/900 = GT4 of 41.8FPS
Mine at 526/803 = GT4 of 44FPS
And that is a very GPU dependant test.

I did have the D3D settings set to 'high performance' but still it shouldn't make such a huge difference..
That is becouse the Point of view 5900xt has loose timings on the mem that is also the reason that the mem clock high :)

I have my Point of View 5900XT@520mhz core ant 1ghz mem whitout vmods :toast:

By the way sorry for my poor englisch

[Garrett]

No problem Beastie :D

Now go vmod that card and don't come back before you hit 600 core ;)

[HaLDoL]

Originally posted by Garrett
No problem Beastie :D

Now go vmod that card and don't come back before you hit 600 core ;)

According to some, that is impossible ...
Catch my drift? ;)

[Garrett]

Yes HaLDoL... rofl... ik snap het hoor :P (that was Dutch, for the non-Dutch here :D)

Looks like I'm going to have to up the voltage a bit more to beat you...

But still we don't have 20k :(

[Beastlock]

Originally posted by HaLDoL
According to some, that is impossible ...
Catch my drift? ;)

You need a A64 setup:cool:

By the way my PoV5900XT is sunday also voltmodded :toast:

oops that was for garrett

[HaLDoL]

Originally posted by Garrett
Yes HaLDoL... rofl... ik snap het hoor :P (that was Dutch, for the non-Dutch here :D)

Looks like I'm going to have to up the voltage a bit more to beat you...

But still we don't have 20k :(

dutch: hehe, ik was gewoon een beetje verbaasd dat sommigen me niet geloofden. Maar m'n 3dm03 score bewijst genoeg denk ik.

I'll beat 20k easily, once I have some proper cooling on my cpu. Did the benches with only a 120mm papst fan on the cpu. I also did all 3dm01 tests in one run without any tweaking between them. And I should certainly gain some points when I change the LOD.

Also the memory on the gpu has no heatsinks on them. Don't know if that will help. I won't try the vmem mod as it has almost no effect according to Macci.

Still the heatspreader on the core has to go :) I'll try to reach 620+ on the core and a 7500+ score on 3dm03.

Shame it's getting warmer around here :D

[Garrett]

can ANYONE send me that Leadtek 5900XT bios PLZ???
-edit- I already have it... if someone needs it, mail me :)

[XanderF]

So, hey, anyone get pics of the vMem mod yet?

And, making sure I've got this, I can read the voltages at the following points:
http://xanderf.dyndns.org/images/pc/5900xt.jpg

Right? Can I just measure from the cap itself to ground, or do I have to match through one of the pins going through the PCB to measure from?

(As you can see, I did get the heatspreader off without major catastrophe. That thing is a pain to get off - much harder than a Radeon shim.)

4bit colors etc at some point it gave some 'no enough resources' error.

That's exactly what I've seen every time when using a 5950 BIOS on my 5900XT - and I've tried nearly *all* the BIOSes available. Including the BIOSes for the MSI 5950 VIVO. You'd think, if any of them where to work on my MSI 5900XT VIVO, it would be that one.

In any case, reading about a couple of the other 5900XT BIOSes here - Leadtek? Point-of-View? - has me wondering about using one of them. Lower timings for higher ram clocks? Sounds interesting!

Where could I find a PoV BIOS?

[Garrett]

Here you can find lots of bios files :)
http://www.mvktech.net/download.php

[XanderF]

Right, found that site.

But they don't list a 5900XT BIOS for Leadtek - just the LX (not the same thing, according to Leadtek's site) and the regular 5900 non-Ultra (3 BIOSes for that!)

[XanderF]

As to the caps, I'm guessing I measure from the pin sticking through the PCB for the '+' side. Only thing is....how can I tell which is the '+' pin?

If I'm looking at the board side-on (it's mounted in my mobo right now), which pin do I measure from? The left one, or the right one?

[XanderF]

Hmmmm....further research would seem to indicate that the 5900LX is near-identical to the 5900XT, but with a 10mhz higher *core* clock - ram is the same!

Is this the BIOS Macci was using to get such higher memory clocks?

I got my Albatron mem from 803MHz (minor artifacts) to 911MHz (100% clean, will bench at 936 easily) by removing the small ramsinks and flashing Leadtek 5900XT BIOS in.

Or, when he said 'XT BIOS', he *really meant* the XT BIOS, not the LX. In which case, I'm still searching. I'm about the same right now, no vMod (well, I have them on, just haven't adjusted them yet until I figure out how to read the voltage), improved the ramsinks, but hitting a brick wall at just over 800mhz ram.

[Garrett]

Here's the XT bios from Leadtek that I got from an acquaintance:
http://home.planet.nl/~dikke332/NV35332.ROM

[XanderF]

Hmmm....did that BIOS help you with your clocks any?

I did it, card booted into Windows okay - driver actually worked this time - but no improvement at all. Wasn't any *worse*, just didn't improve any.

Dunno.

Also tried flashing to the 5950 again (I had heard on some forums people who couldn't go directly from their brand of 5900XT->5950 had luck flashing to another type of 5900XT, THEN to a 5950). Didn't have any luck with that, either. Still got that 4-bit color display and 'could not allocate enough resources' or whatever in device manager.

Trying the Point-Of-View BIOS now.

[HaLDoL]

Does changing the VR affect your vcore much? I mean between 4.8 and 4 Kohm my vcore barely changes (+0.2V).

[XanderF]

Still haven't quite figured out where *exactly* I'm supposed to measure the vCore *from*.

Left pin from the cap, or right pin?

In any case, the P-o-V BIOS didn't help at all. I'm quite stuck at 465/800 until I turn up my vMods.

Odd that my max core overclock dropped 10mhz by removing the heatspreader. Not sure what's going on there. Wish there was some way I could get a thermal reading of the core. It seems stable and artifact-free, it's just thermal throttling lower now.

[HaLDoL]

That's what happened to me too, I removed the heatspreader and performance was worse.
Before I could do decent benches with 606 on the core, but now that the heatspreader is removed I can only do 580 without the core kicking back to lower frequencies.

Still the max overclock has increased with the heatspreader removed, it can pass the test at 630 core, but at this speed it immediatly throttles back to lower frequencies in 3dmark.

The thermal throttling thing is really annoying, benches run without artifacts and still it throttles back. Is there a way to avoid them? Other drivers didn't work.

The voltage reading point is here:
http://members.chello.nl/~h.prijt/5900xt-voltagereadingpoint.jpg

[XanderF]

I got that that's the cap to read, I just don't know how to read it. Which pin from it going through the PCB do I read? Left one or right one (looking down on card when installed in PC)? Does it matter?

I would think the '+' side....but which one is that?

Or, do you mean measure from the tiny pad visible from under the cap? That'd be damn hard to get at while running.....

[Garrett]

Ok, look at the cap above the one the arrows points to...
See the small metal square at the left of the cap?

http://home.planet.nl/~dikke332/5900xt-voltagereadingpoint.jpg
Look at the small white arrow, that's the measuring point :)

In my case I could measure all 3 little squares near all 3 caps, didn't matter which one I chose :)

[HaLDoL]

it's pad where the code (c189 on mine) is next to. It's not under the cap it's next to it. Like in the picture.

[XanderF]

Cool, thanks.

As to the removed-heatspreader....

Was playing around with it more, and, sure enough, it does let me test higher in the control panel now. I can test up to 525mhz. I can even run at 500mhz with thermal throttling not really kicking in.

Previously, I had been testing with my memory at 800mhz - one test failed, moved setting down. My memory is not *quite* stable at 800mhz. Works fine in-game with no artifacts, but it won't test okay all the time. Taking it down to 780 for testing allows me to really play with the core speed a lot, then I can always use RivaTuner to kick the mem back up to 800.

It's too damn bad we can't disable thermal throttling altogether - that's a VERY annoying function.

Looking at Futuremark's ORB....it seems *all* the high scores on 5900XTs are using the Point-of-View cards. Maybe that card's BIOS has more lax thermal throttling? Supposedly, it also has more lax memory timings, but trying both PoV 5900XT BIOSes from this site (http://home.planet.nl/~dikke332/NV35332.ROM) yielded no memory increase at all.

Will have to try this evening RE: thermal throttling with other BIOSes. Looks like I have an opening from 4-7pm PST where my PC won't be recording anything, so I'll try then.

If anyone else wanted to experiment some and report back....

[XanderF]

Okay, got the vCore, thanks.

Still need to find the vMem location. The cap previously identified as the vMem obviously isn't:
http://xanderf.dyndns.org/images/pc/5900xt_b.jpg

I can't probe around on the card in my PC (too tight a fit), and soldering onto those pads is a total :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:. Any assistance in finding the vMem read point would be appreciated!

[HaLDoL]

Weird stuff ...
I can bench without artifacts with 575-6xx Mhz on the core. If i try 570 or below, i get artifacts.
A possible explanation is that 570 is the real limit of the card and if you set it to something above it, it can pass the test but due to thermal throttling it probably goes below 570.

[ALT-F13]

HaLDoL
no, your theory of card limit is wrong. LaikrodiZ benches on his Sparkle @ 605/965 without problems... Vgpu = 1.8, no Vmem mod still - can't find any CLEAR guide...
Clocks are "real", without thermal throttling - he got 23200 yesterday on it. He didn't upload because that was still on watercooled CPU @ 3700... Just need to put it back to Mach II GT, that's ll be 4.3GHz :)

[HaLDoL]

Sure he can bench at 605, I can bench at 615 but I got the best scores at lower frequencies, 606 (3dmark03) and 580 (3dmark 2001).

I read somewhere that due to thermal throttling, the core frequency falls back to 2D speeds. A possible fix would be setting your 2D speeds as high as your 3D speeds but as your 2D setting uses 0.2V less than in 3D, that would be very hard to accomplish.

[ALT-F13]

Well... Now he can bench @ 610 with 1.9V. And scores go up until test freezes.
That's 137.3 nature and 23522 overall - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7692483, current #1 with FX5900XT.

Thermal throttling could ber nicely monitored on-the-fly by voltmeter.

[XanderF]

Dunno how useful this will be, as I'm the only one who didn't seem to get it, but...

Some voltage points on a 5900XT:
http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/5900xt_c.jpg

The 3.00v is controlled by the second ISL chip, the 1.30v is controlled by the first. IE., 3.00v is vMem, 1.30v is vCore. These are the '2d' voltages. vMem is not changed going from 'safe' mode to '2d' mode to '3d' mode. vCore is -0.10v in 'safe' mode and +0.20v in '3d' mode.

[HaLDoL]

2.92 ohm gives me 2.73 vcore in 3D, it helps getting more consistent benchmarks and less (thermal) throttling.

XanderF: nice pic, you're gonna try a vmem mod?

ALT-F13: how about 174.2 in nature @ 580 core?

[TodB]

Originally posted by HaLDoL
2.92 ohm gives me 2.73 vcore in 3D,

uuummmm... WHAT?!? :confused:

I really hope, that you ment 1.73V...

[XanderF]

Tried vMem mod. Running it up to 3.2 didn't help me 1mhz on mem. Leaving it at 3.1. I suppose it did help a little - now my memory *always* tests okay at 800mhz, whereas at stock it would sometimes fail the test.

No artifacts in either case, so...dunno.

Card as it looks now:
http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/xt_mod_top.jpg

http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/xt_mod_bottom.jpg

[Garrett]

Hmmm... after vmodding my GPU I put a small Tweakmonster heatsink on the voltage regulator chip just to be sure... the chip you use to solder the GPU vmod on that is... :)
It normally runs quite hot you see, can't cool that sucker enough ;)

[XanderF]

It's doing okay with a 1U HSF I put on it now:

http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/s_xt_mod_done_top.jpg

Dropped the OC a *little* from a waterblock. Stable at 530/800, 3dMark03 score of 6809.

I'm done playing with it now, though - better things to do. I'd *like* to post a sale of it on these forums, but I don't have a 100-post-count, and I don't feel like spamming the forums up some, so....feh.

[ALT-F13]

HaLDoL
Say hello to 44.03... I didn't use that cheater's friend... With 53.03 137.3 is enough:)
Well, 590/950 + P4EE@4.27 (not maxed out, but that was enough) = 25075 points. Probably that's the best demonstration that there is no performance drop at that clocks... :)

[Eleazar]

I did a voltmod on my eVGA 5900XT. What temps should I stay under?

I have a Vantec Iceberq4 copper hsf with shin etsu G751. At 1.67v it hit about 80c only running just the game1 and nature test once in 3dmark2k1. I'm assuming thats too high. Right now it's 1.5v and hits about 72c while stress testing. I'm just wondering what other ppl are seeing as max temps?

-Ben

[Garrett]

Well, I have an Innovatek waterblock on it, and when I try to stress the card @ 1.65v with a windowed UT2004, I display the temps too in the display properties panel, it doesn't get above 45c :)
Still I wouldn't like any temp above 60c.

It's supposed to throttle down @ 140c according to the display properties, but I think that's a load of crap... come on 140c

[XanderF]

How are you reading the temperature on them?

I daren't put a thermal probe anywhere near the core (it's very thin, and I don't want to get in the way of the waterblock), and a thermal probe on the back of the card. over the core, reads WAY too low.

The 5900XTs don't have thermal sensors on them, do they?

[XanderF]

BTW, for those interested....

I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!

Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!

I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.

And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....

Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.

As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!

So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2426035). A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.

Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So....

[Eleazar]

I monitor the temps using Rivatuner (http://www.guru3d.com/rivatuner) It plots a line graph so I can see how high it gets. It uses the temp sensors on the card, ambient and core. I'm probably not going to go over 1.55v I don't think. The GPU gets pretty hot and it's not direct die-heatsink contact so I don't want it too hot. On the other hand, the throttling that is built in works pretty well. I just wonder how if it compensates enough when vgpu is raised.

XanderF: have you flashed your card witha different bios? I remember hearing someone say that their bios modded card didn't change voltages. You're saying that your volts stays the same no matter what? Doesn't your gpu clock speed raise to the "3D" setting

I think the driver knows it's entering 3D mode and adjusts voltage and clock speed.

[XanderF]

I think the driver knows it's entering 3D mode and adjusts voltage and clock speed.

Normally, it should.

But, what I'm saying is, it never does.

I have a volt-meter attached to my card, and I spent a whole day at different clocks and voltages, just watching it.

It goes from 'safe mode' to '2d' just fine, but it doesn't go to 3d if the CPU is over 40C (haven't figured out how to measure the GPU yet). It just never does....period. If I let my computer cool down, and boot it up with no overclock, it will go into 3d mode okay, but with the heat the CPU generates now, it won't. It just stays in 2d mode the entire time windows is loaded.

So, I just adjusted the voltage there!

have you flashed your card witha different bios? I remember hearing someone say that their bios modded card didn't change voltages.

Tried, didn't work. No effect using any different BIOS.

I monitor the temps using Rivatuner It plots a line graph so I can see how high it gets. It uses the temp sensors on the card, ambient and core.

Ah, then this card must really not have one. Rivatuner doesn't show anything for the temperatures.

Wonder how it works clock throttling, then, given that it is obivously temperature related?

[Garrett]

Originally posted by XanderF
How are you reading the temperature on them?
The 5900XTs don't have thermal sensors on them, do they? Most of the cards do :) :toast:
Originally posted by XanderF
BTW, for those interested....

I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!

Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!

I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.

And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....

Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.

As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!

So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2426035). A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.

Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So.... You're really putting your card in danger, you realize that?
But that's what I like though, this is XTREMESYSTEMS.ORG :thumbsup: :toast:

[jimmor]

Originally posted by HaLDoL
Sure he can bench at 605, I can bench at 615 but I got the best scores at lower frequencies, 606 (3dmark03) and 580 (3dmark 2001).

I read somewhere that due to thermal throttling, the core frequency falls back to 2D speeds. A possible fix would be setting your 2D speeds as high as your 3D speeds but as your 2D setting uses 0.2V less than in 3D, that would be very hard to accomplish.


The thermal throttling mode runs at VGPU of 1.3v and speed of 376.7MHz, and has nothing to do with 2D mode.

[jimmor]

Originally posted by XanderF
BTW, for those interested....

I'm now running 1.65 vCore....in 2d mode!

Now, I know what y'all are thinking right now. "My god, he's mad! He's going to kill us all!" But, not so!

I've found that the safe/2d/3d mode switch is based EXCLUSIVELY on temperature. Nothing else. Increasing voltage has no effect, increasing or decrease clock has no effect - nothing. The ONLY thing that changes it is the temperature.

And, it seems to do the 2d/3d switch at 40C. Wonder if that '140C' was just a typo? Hmmm....

Anyway, I have the card on my water loop to my CPU...which basically idles at 40C, so the GPU never drops below that.

As a result....my card NEVER goes into 3d mode!

So, I just cranked the voltage while in 2d mode, cranked the clocks, and here ya go (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2426035). A 3dMark03 score of over 7000 with a 5900XT.

Of course, if 3d mode ever DOES somehow turn on....my cards toast. So....

if your card never goes into 3D mode then the performance must be extremely poor as 2D runs only at 300MHz ? And problem must be exclusive to you as never heard of anybody's card refusing to go into 3D ?

[XanderF]

My tests prove otherwise.

And, in any case, there are several steps of 'thermally throttled' speeds.

if your card never goes into 3D mode then the performance must be extremely poor as 2D runs only at 300MHz ?

No, as noted, I overclocked my 2D mode.

See my 3dMark03 score of 7012 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2426035). Not bad, eh?

[jimmor]

Originally posted by XanderF
My tests prove otherwise.

And, in any case, there are several steps of 'thermally throttled' speeds.



No, as noted, I overclocked my 2D mode.

See my 3dMark03 score of 7012 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2426035). Not bad, eh?

The normal throttling down mode is mean't as a 3D function, and if your card has sensors, and you look at core and memory speeds using rivatuner, you will see that thermal throttling drops speed down from whatever overclocked speed you set to an interim mode of 376.7MHz, which lasts for approx 20 seconds. Most easily viewed by overclocking with rivatuner, which does a stress test where it prematurely triggers the throttling mode and thus shows the dropdown from 3D to interim throttling mode for 20 secs and then on to 2d mode. Another important thing this tells you is, if overclocking with rivatuner then you must reboot to clear the prematurely triggered throttling mode. Because once triggered, it won't go away untill you do !

the only card and hence bios I know that doesn't suffer from any throttling problem is the ASUS5950u, as it always operates in 3D and doesn't have any throttling modes !

EDIT:

and by the way, for overclocked 2D, your score is excellent !

[XanderF]

and by the way, for overclocked 2D, your score is excellent !

That's putting it mildly - I'm #9 on the ORB with a 5900XT paired with ANY CPU. Just do a search on '5900XT' as the graphics chipset, and specify no other criteria. There I am, #9.

[Garrett]

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2209672
542/833 1.63v GPU
Troll's Lair is the only test my card doesn't like most of the time.
All games run fine but Troll's Lair gives fullscreen blockies after the troll throws the chair at the girl.
Most likely this is due to the fact that my Club3D card has the XFX bios... so it's 99.9% correct.
I'm keeping the XFX bios though, since all games run well and I can run 800 memory artifact free, something that's not possible with the Club3D bios...

[jimmor]

Originally posted by XanderF
That's putting it mildly - I'm #9 on the ORB with a 5900XT paired with ANY CPU. Just do a search on '5900XT' as the graphics chipset, and specify no other criteria. There I am, #9.

I agree with you, thats why I said your XT scores were excellent !

not sure how meaningful high scores are when achieved through voltmods and overclocking. ? My argument being that sticking your card in liquid nitrogen will probably enable a massive increase in scores. In fact stick your whole computer in the same liquid nitrogen and overclock everything and you will very quickly take first place for a XT based setup.

Don't get me wrong, I like to read about these extreme activities, and therefore I'm glad there are people like you bending all the rules, but for the moment am happy with my 5900 flashed to a 5950u score of 6.5K ! As it has got to last me for some time to come !

[jimmor]

Originally posted by Garrett
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2209672
542/833 1.63v GPU
Troll's Lair is the only test my card doesn't like most of the time.
All games run fine but Troll's Lair gives fullscreen blockies after the troll throws the chair at the girl.
Most likely this is due to the fact that my Club3D card has the XFX bios... so it's 99.9% correct.
I'm keeping the XFX bios though, since all games run well and I can run 800 memory artifact free, something that's not possible with the Club3D bios...

have you tried flashing your card with a higher level bios, like the 5950u.

Only reason I ask, is because the early club3D XT cards actually used a modified 5900nu bios and therefore are more able to take a 5950 bios flash than a true more recent XT cards.

[Garrett]

Originally posted by jimmor
have you tried flashing your card with a higher level bios, like the 5950u.

Only reason I ask, is because the early club3D XT cards actually used a modified 5900nu bios and therefore are more able to take a 5950 bios flash than a true more recent XT cards.
I've tried various BIOSes, none of them work(ed) correctly.
To be honest... flashing a 5950u BIOS isn't a very good idea IMO (please DO correct me if I'm wrong) because it would set the memory to 950 Mhz right?
It's simply not able to go that high so I won't dare to kill it immediately :eek:
I could be wrong though, but the 5900 non ultra BIOSes I've tried don't work well here :(

[jimmor]

Originally posted by Garrett
I've tried various BIOSes, none of them work(ed) correctly.
To be honest... flashing a 5950u BIOS isn't a very good idea IMO (please DO correct me if I'm wrong) because it would set the memory to 950 Mhz right?
It's simply not able to go that high so I won't dare to kill it immediately :eek:
I could be wrong though, but the 5900 non ultra BIOSes I've tried don't work well here :(

you are not wrong, a standard 5950u bios will set stock memory speed at 950MHz. And this level is way beyond the capabilities of normal XT 2.8ns memory. That is why I modified some at lower stock memory speed of 300/450/800 and made them available for XT users to try. But with no guarantees of success as some XT type cards just can't deal with 5950u bios's.


the 5900nu, 5900u and 5950u all share same original card and bios design, and therefore it is easy and successful to flash one to another's performance level, when we ignore the fact that some use 128Mb and others 256Mb memory.

early XT bios's were based on standard 5900nu bios's, and as such were also more able to flash to a 5950u. Unfortunately newer XT type cards use more unique bios's, which are no longer enough compatible to ensure success with 5950u flash.

It may be that Nvidia, when designing the newer XT's deliberately made them unique in order to specifically stop people flashing them to a higher spec, like has happened with many 5900nu owners. In fact I'm sure they are well aware that people are scouring the internet as we speak to find any old stock of 5900nu cards. Right now, they are the best bang per buck version you can get, and totally because you can flash it at no extra cost to a 5950u performance level, and beyond if wanted!

[Garrett]

Originally posted by jimmor
you are not wrong, a standard 5950u bios will set stock memory speed at 950MHz. And this level is way beyond the capabilities of normal XT 2.8ns memory. That is why I modified some at lower stock memory speed of 300/450/800 and made them available for XT users to try. But with no guarantees of success as some XT type cards just can't deal with 5950u bios's.


the 5900nu, 5900u and 5950u all share same original card and bios design, and therefore it is easy and successful to flash one to another's performance level, when we ignore the fact that some use 128Mb and others 256Mb memory.

early XT bios's were based on standard 5900nu bios's, and as such were also more able to flash to a 5950u. Unfortunately newer XT type cards use more unique bios's, which are no longer enough compatible to ensure success with 5950u flash.

It may be that Nvidia, when designing the newer XT's deliberately made them unique in order to specifically stop people flashing them to a higher spec, like has happened with many 5900nu owners. In fact I'm sure they are well aware that people are scouring the internet as we speak to find any old stock of 5900nu cards. Right now, they are the best bang per buck version you can get, and totally because you can flash it at no extra cost to a 5950u performance level, and beyond if wanted! Hmmm very interesting stuff you mention here...
If I do remember correctly, I think I was one of the first here in The Netherlands to buy the 5900XT card...

And you modify BIOSes?
Now it gets attractive... let's hear more about that :thumbsup:

[XanderF]

Originally posted by jimmor
not sure how meaningful high scores are when achieved through voltmods and overclocking. ?

Not sure I follow why they wouldn't be?

This IS exactly how I play may games - my 3dMark03 run was completely artifact-free. This is the core and memory clock, and voltages, I run ALL my programs in.

So...yeah, it's meaningful. Allows me to run 4x anti-aliasing in games where 2x was only possible before. Allows me to run games at my LCD's native 1280x1024 resolution instead of having to drop down to the disproportioned 1024x768.

It's all good by me!

(As to the bios flash question - I know it wasn't directed at me - but I've tried it, as well. No good. I actually got the same results Macci did earlier in this thread. It would POST looking just fine, but windows could not initialize the display adapter, so I got a really fun looking 320x240 4-bit color logon screen and desktop. Flashing it back to my old bios - BE SURE TO BACK IT UP! - fixed the problem, though. Too bad, as I have 2.5ns ram. With the right voltage and timings, 950 SHOULD have been achievable. As it is, the timings on my ram are WAY too tight, and I can't get it over 820 without some artifacts, even at 3.4v.)
AMD Athlon XP-M Mobile 2400+ @ 11x241=2651Mhz @ 2.15v

:eek:

Wow. What kind of cooling and temps do you get?!?

[jimmor]

Originally posted by XanderF
Not sure I follow why they wouldn't be?

This IS exactly how I play may games - my 3dMark03 run was completely artifact-free. This is the core and memory clock, and voltages, I run ALL my programs in.

So...yeah, it's meaningful. Allows me to run 4x anti-aliasing in games where 2x was only possible before. Allows me to run games at my LCD's native 1280x1024 resolution instead of having to drop down to the disproportioned 1024x768.

It's all good by me!

(As to the bios flash question - I know it wasn't directed at me - but I've tried it, as well. No good. I actually got the same results Macci did earlier in this thread. It would POST looking just fine, but windows could not initialize the display adapter, so I got a really fun looking 320x240 4-bit color logon screen and desktop. Flashing it back to my old bios - BE SURE TO BACK IT UP! - fixed the problem, though. Too bad, as I have 2.5ns ram. With the right voltage and timings, 950 SHOULD have been achievable. As it is, the timings on my ram are WAY too tight, and I can't get it over 820 without some artifacts, even at 3.4v.)


:eek:

Wow. What kind of cooling and temps do you get?!?

my point on the whether scores were meaningful or not when derived by shall we say cheating, is as I said; the final winner will be the person who is the first to put his computer in liquid nitrogen and then overclock and voltmod the hell out of it. !

your point in doing it to give much better usable performance, rather than just for scores battling, I totally agree with.

In my much smaller and more careful way, I am always trying to improve my setups performance at as little cost as possible. which is why, although I generally don't agree with scores battling, I applaude anybody who keeps pushing the bounderies on what is possible. ?

On bios flashing; If you have a genuine, lets call it second generation, XT type card, then the only bios you can flash your card with is another XT type bios. And this has actually proven to be a sensible move for some. Just look at what is happening at the guru forum. Some manufacturers make bios's that give better performance sometimes just depending on type and ns rating of memory chips fitted. with your existing cards bios, even if you only mod it with the latency values used by a 5950u, you will probably be able to overclock higher. Whether more performance or just more stability is achieved can only be determined if you do it and test it. Also one of the biggest problems under investigation with the 5900 type card is with throttling down, when under "stress". Even overclocking with rivatuner causes premature triggering of the throttling down mode. Which means you must reboot after overclocking with riva in order to reset throttling mode to off. The main point however is that the throttling mode kills performance instantly as it drops the core speed down to approx 376MHz for approx 20 secs when triggered.

[jimmor]

Originally posted by Garrett
Hmmm very interesting stuff you mention here...
If I do remember correctly, I think I was one of the first here in The Netherlands to buy the 5900XT card...

And you modify BIOSes?
Now it gets attractive... let's hear more about that :thumbsup:

people, myself included, have been modifying bios's for a long time using whatever appropriate bios editors were available. For Nvidia bios's, and least up to the GF4Ti series, a program called X-Bios allows speed and other changes to be entered in special menu's or by using the in-built hex editor. Unfortunately FX bios's are not properly supported by the X-bios program. Its development ceased too early. Nowadays therefore you can modify the Nvidia bios's by using a hex editor only, using bits and pieces gained from peoples experiences. Known changes include changing stock speeds, volts and memory latencies and more recently looking at disabling the throttling down mode. But it is just bits and pieces. Nobody to my knowledge has yet produced any documentation detailing all that is possible. most of this is ongoing in the guru forum.

[Garrett]

Hehe... well it's more the overclock I CAN obtain, I don't run it all the time you see.
I have a Maze4 waterblock and it climbs up to 50C after 10 minutes stressing :D
So for 24/7 use I take 12x200=2400Mhz @ 1.8v :)
I don't think it's very healthy for the cpu to run 2.15v all the time... :eek: :eek:

PS I'm thinking of buying a Point of View GF4 XP that will do 310/660 with standard cooling and throw the voltmods on... I can get it fairly cheap and then try to get nice benchmark scores :D

I can sell the 5900XT as well and then I'll get myself the Ati Radeon 9800Pro and vmod that as well :D

It simply has a lot more potential than the 5900XT....

[HaLDoL]

Originally posted by jimmor
The thermal throttling mode runs at VGPU of 1.3v and speed of 376.7MHz, and has nothing to do with 2D mode.

But what is triggering it? I think it's like XanderF says temperature related.

[dadash]

Well I have used one of Jimmor's no throttle moded bios and it really works. Absolutely no more throtteling even under extreme stress and heat.

[jimmor]

Originally posted by HaLDoL
But what is triggering it? I think it's like XanderF says temperature related.

thats one of the big questions still being looked at ?? It seems to happen randomly, and has happened without observable heat issues, and with different card types and drivers ???

if you want to see a demonstration of it in action, use rivatuner, select to use the hardware monitor (shows core and memory speeds/temps in real time), and overclock your core 3D speed by a few MHz, run the test and apply. You will note that the core has gone to 3D speed during the overclock test phase. After about 30 secs it will drop from the 3D speed to the throttling speed of 376.7MHz, which it will hold for about 25 secs, and then drop to 2D speed of 300MHz. If you were monitoring the core volts, you would have seen approx 1.2v in 2D, 1.5v in 3d and 1.3v during throttling mode.

Once triggered, in this case by rivatuner, it appears to always drop core speeds to throttling speed whenever a 3D to 2D switching condition/selection occurs. To reset the triggered condition you must reboot ??

[jimmor]

Originally posted by Garrett


PS I'm thinking of buying a Point of View GF4 XP that will do 310/660 with standard cooling and throw the voltmods on... I can get it fairly cheap and then try to get nice benchmark scores :D

I can sell the 5900XT as well and then I'll get myself the Ati Radeon 9800Pro and vmod that as well :D

It simply has a lot more potential than the 5900XT....

the GF4 will probably run fine at 310/660 on standard cooling, but it will run very hot. And any overclocking beyound this will require much better than standard, if you want it to last for some time that is.??

A 9800pro serves a different market than a 5900XT and therefore they can't be directly compared. Just as the XT can't be properly compared with the higher up versions of the 59xx cards.

In the quagmire of ATI and Nvidia cards, any of the higher versions will overclock and perform well, but only to similar levels

If you really want much better performance then wait and choose one of the next gen ATI or NVidia cards, which will leave any current versions well behind.

[jimmor]

Originally posted by XanderF
Ah, then this card must really not have one. Rivatuner doesn't show anything for the temperatures.

Wonder how it works clock throttling, then, given that it is obivously temperature related?

Some XT type cards do have temp sensors. And for those that don't show temps, its not actually that the core doesn't have a temp sensor, its more that it isn't available to be monitored. Not linked through the new XT PCB for some reason only known to Nvidia since they designed it. Maybe they just didn't think a XT level of card warranted the use of temp sensors, who knows ??

They probably just underestimated their market and therefore some customers overwhelming need to turn a XT into a firebreather by overclocking the hell out of it. ??

[XanderF]

Known changes include changing stock speeds, volts and memory latencies and more recently looking at disabling the throttling down mode.

I would really, REALLY be interested in:
* Changing memory latencies
* Disabling throttling modes

If you could point me in the right direction, I'd much appreciate it!

If it's all the same to you, I'd just as soon mod my own BIOS. I'm a software engineer and have been playing around with hex editors and BIOS files since...oh, a LONG time now.

Anyway, I happen to like the VIVO capability of this card, and, near as I can tell, flashing this to ANY other BIOS loses me that ability. But I'm very unhappy with my 2.5ns memory stuck at 800mhz even up to 3.4volts! With looser timings, I'm SURE I could hit 900 or 950 with the voltage and cooling I have!

And, of course, thermal throttling is the bane of any GeForceFX user. Gods, I hope they kill that feature for the GeForce '6'-series. Probably won't, but you can always hope.

(Oh, if you'd prefer not to explain how to tweak it - too complicated, or you'd prefer to keep it a 'trade secret' for your BIOS mods...would it be possible for you to at least take a look at my BIOS if I export it? It's an MSI 5900XT with VIVO - pretty cool card, IMHO)

[dadash]

For the no thermal throttle mods and memory mods look here (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=728256#post728256)

Here at 3DGuru forum Jimmor has been moding some great bios for us, disabling the throttle functÃ:banana:on among others.

[XanderF]

Wow, Guru3d forums have changed a LOT since I was last there.

In any case, didn't see the MSI BIOS posted I'd be looking for. Or, instructions on how to do it.

But, then, that's a 45 page thread. I may well have missed something. I'll try reading through it more completely tomorrow.

[EmineM]

on my AOpen 5900 XT I read 1.25v as gpu default? is that correct? I used the measuring point from TodB... where do I measuree vdimm?

when I check the two caps of TodB's picture i get readings above 5v

[Garrett]

I think your reading of 1.25 is correct :)
I assume this is when the card is 'doing nothing' at the desktop?

In 3d it will jump to 1.45

My card was reading 1.23 in 2d and 1.43 in 3d until I vmodded it to 1.45 in 2d and 1.65 in 3d

Unfortunately I cannot tell you the vdimm measuring point :(

[XanderF]

Try the points I've indicated with the '3.0v' on this pic:
http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/5900xt_c.jpg

[Eleazar]

The GPU voltage points is the cap that say "1.30v". I'm running mine at 1.50v in 3D. before it was 1.42v. I'm probly going to go to 1.55 with my air cooling (Iceberq 4 copper HSF) but over that I'm wary..

I think the 3.00v on that picture is the vdimm. Have fun!

[XanderF]

*sigh*

Killed my card.

After all the volt-mods, watercooling, etc - you'd think one of those would kill it! But, alas, no.

Stupid BIOS flash did it. I backed up my current BIOS, and set the memory to relaxed timings (replaced all 8 instances of 07 03 0F 03 with 07 03 0F 43), and flashed it. Flash went fine, rebooted....nothing.

Computer won't even POST now. PLUS, it's a damn stupid nForce2 board, so even if I *tell* it to init PCI first with a PCI graphics card in it, it will not POST at ALL if there is an AGP card in the AGP slot (unless that card works fine). So, I can't even flash it back to the old BIOS.

Crappola.

$200 paperweight.

Ah, well, it was an awesome performer while it lasted. First card I've killed I actually miss (and this 64-bit, no-DVI-port, FX 5200is NOT helping any!).

R.I.P. my friend.

http://xanderf.dyndns.org:8080/images/pc/rip.jpg

[Eleazar]

I feel your pain Xander.. did a ramsink mod on my friends GF4 4200 and something went wrong (ESD, short, cap broke off - pick one). We plugged it in, prayed, and no POST :( The first thing I ever toasted was a 250mb HD, with a screwdriver dropped on it while powered on :)

Atleast you know it's not a hardware problem so if you can ever get it in a dual vga system that'll recognize it you can flash it... right?

Anyway, I like your tombstone pic! Are you in graphics design?

[Garrett]

You may kill the board, but can't you hotplug a videocard? :D

[XanderF]

That's the second time I've seen that suggestion.

I HAVE thought about it....but I'm worried it may damage my motherboard. Don't want to lose EVERYTHING on this system, it is a work system. I NEED it to stay up overall or I'm in big trouble.

[TodB]

Originally posted by XanderF
*sigh*


Stupid BIOS flash did it. I backed up my current BIOS, and set the memory to relaxed timings (replaced all 8 instances of 07 03 0F 03 with 07 03 0F 43), and flashed it. Flash went fine, rebooted....nothing.



Huh.... can't you just flash it back to the "current BIOS" blindfolded?

I mean eventhough you can't see the POST is the card actually working "underneath"??
If it's working then why don't ya just blindfolded do the flash procedure and smack on the working BIOS? :cool:

[XanderF]

No, it's not getting anywhere. Drives are being read, keyboard not activated. It just doesn't POST at all - it's not simply a matter of not seeing it - it's not DOING it.

[TodB]

Blah..... too bad..... RIP :(

[Hell-Fire]

Is that the AN7 you are speaking of that you killed.

Should try a hotflash with either a NF7 bios or DFI bios chip.

[Sidewinder]

Some questions for the mod...
I got a 5900, but it must be similar to the 5900XT huh?

First: im new to this, dont expect too much :D; I've NEVER modded any gfx board.

Ive readed the whole thread, but i think i didnt understod anythin :D
Ive located all measuring point on the board and soldert already 2 wires on the board like blabla did it... For the rest i donno where to place the wires :rolleyes

My questions are where to connect the wires and what to do with them...

Pics can be found here (very big):
http://www.side-radio.de/side/vmods/5900

[Garrett]

NO NO NO!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
A 5900XT has a VERY different PCB!!!
Don't even think about choosing the same soldering points :eek:
Just search around the web a little and preferably look at (detailed) photos of both the 5900 and the 5900XT cards!

[Sidewinder]

I saw a few differences... But the measuring Points are the same, so i thought the rest would be too :o
as i said... never vmoded any gfx :/
Any links for a 5900 vmod?

[HKPolice]

Can someone PLEASE post pics for the vMem mod?? Thanks

[XanderF]

Not sure I understand the question.

There are two ISL chips on the back of the card - one is for memory, the other is the core. It's a pretty standard mod. Pin 5 to pin 7 (ground) with a variable resistor between.

On my MSI card, using a 10K potentiometer seems to give me the right range of values for voltage control on each.

[Jethro]

Voltage, default speeds and latency here::


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=29230

[HKPolice]

Originally posted by Jethro
Voltage, default speeds and latency here::


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=29230

But what about the VDD and VDDQ? :(

[Jethro]

Heres what xbit had to do to get ram clocks higher with Evga 5950 ultra (vdd and vddq mods):



http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-5950ultra_4.html


These guys IMO are one of the best for info concerning vmoddin cards. Xtreme makes top of list to of course :D

[HKPolice]

Originally posted by Jethro
Heres what xbit had to do to get ram clocks higher with Evga 5950 ultra (vdd and vddq mods):



http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-5950ultra_4.html


These guys IMO are one of the best for info concerning vmoddin cards. Xtreme makes top of list to of course :D

These don't work on the XT because they're different PCBs....

[Jethro]

sorry man!, u can always find relative ICS's and mod them.

[HaLDoL]

Originally posted by HKPolice
These don't work on the XT because they're different PCBs....

HK, nice results on the 3dm2k1 benches but could you please publish only one result instead of every run?. You're kinda polluting the ORB.

[endo]

was not here for a few days
Now i have found my error about mod on ddr
so , use TP 29 for DDR & TP 28 -same as gpu mod - for GND
value following :

stock : 2.83 volts
150 k :2.95
120 k :2.98
100 k :3.01
82 k :3.05
68 k :3.12
56 k :3.17
47 k :3.24 test 3dmark 2003 with already 733 mhz DDR !!!
39 k :3.31

i stopped here ; i saw some guys supplying more voltage , till 3.50 , but isn ' t it dangerous for DDR 3.3 ns even with Tweakmonster ramsinks on them ?
in next post i will give more results for gpu & mem .
For gpu , i will build a Danger Den Maze 4 with TEC - perhaps 400 mhz for gpu ?
PS : u can see all TP number on the front of the card