What is this bh-5 ram?

[berries]

I am going to be buying ram in the next few days (1gb), and seems to me there is a lot of threads about this bh-5 ram. Bh-5 is supposed to be good, and ch-5 is bad. What exactly is bh-5 ram, and why is it good?

[Hell-Fire]

BH5 is the better overclocker versus CH5 ... and BH5 can handle alot of voltage.

CH5 isn't exactlly poor ram mind you. On my A7N8X, HyperX 3500 BH5 wouldn't do a thing for me....when I moved to HyperX CH5 things improved nicely.

If you are looking to get ram for overclocking, certainly grab up some BH5 before supplies totally dwindle away, or they raise the price to something ludacris because production of BH5 has ceased.

Keep in mind that the typical configuration for overclocking ram is 2x256, not 2x512. You are going to have a ruff go of it with a gig of ram when it comes to overclocking..unless you are very lucky with your sticks. That doesnt mean you wont get some extra mhz out of them, just not likely they will go no where near as high as the 256 sticks will. The more ic's on the pcb, the harder it is to get a high overclock. Simply put, the more of something you have, the more possible weak links in the chain.

Unless you want a gig due to programs you run being very memory demanding, I would go with 2x256 and BH5....they will serve you well. If you are not worried about real highh fsb, then by all means grab the 2x512 as your load times on games, programs, windows, etc will certainly be faster.

Cheers and let us know what you plan on doing.

:toast:

[berries]

I looked around and it seems like this bh-5 ram is only for 3500 ram. I was planning to get 3700 ram. I thought 3700 or 4000 or 4400 was what was recomended for overclocking. Or am I wrong?

[Nookie420]

well, if your not going to be overclocking to or past say, 217fsb(PC3500) then you wount need PC3700. My Bh-5 is actually PC3200, but of course will go much faster if my mobo would let me.

Mtl_hed has PC4200 and it is bh-5 i do believe. to bad he didnt buy some pc3200 bh-5 as i'm sure it would have saved him money. he's running 240fsb right now with his at crappy timings for his ram voltage wount go past 2.9v

[Tedinde]

Originally posted by Nookie420
well, if your not going to be overclocking to or past say, 217fsb(PC3500) then you wount need PC3700. My Bh-5 is actually PC3200, but of course will go much faster if my mobo would let me.

Mtl_hed has PC4200 and it is bh-5 i do believe. to bad he didnt buy some pc3200 bh-5 as i'm sure it would have saved him money. he's running 240fsb right now with his at crappy timings for his ram voltage wount go past 2.9v


What brand is this BH5- 4200??

[Grace]

Originally posted by berries
I looked around and it seems like this bh-5 ram is only for 3500 ram. I was planning to get 3700 ram. I thought 3700 or 4000 or 4400 was what was recomended for overclocking. Or am I wrong?

Actually BH-5/BH-6 chips are used in many modules from Pc2700 to Pc3700. Most were used on Pc3200 modules.

And no, you aren't wrong, merely misinformed.

BH-5/BH-6 are the best not because they will reach the highest frequencies but because they will eat all the voltage you'll throw at them and will work at the lowest possible timings (2/5/2/2). Timings affect memory performance a lot more than raw MHz. The higher rated modules carry other chips which will go high on MHz, but no matter what you'll do they won't work at timings anywhere close to 2/5/2/2. Depending on the system, using a divider and running at lower MHz but with better timings will usually give better results.

For a mere example, you'll get better results when you run a P4 CPU at 290 FSB and the memory at 233MHz (5:4 divider) with the tightest timings that running the memory 1:1 at 290MHz with 3/8/4/4 timings.


edit:

What brand is this BH5- 4200??

I'm wondering that myself....
I never saw any BH-5 on RAM rated higher than Pc3500 actually, save the buffalo Pc3700 which are rated for severely high timings. And certainly no PC4200 I've ever tested had BH-5 on it, I checked all the brands one by one.

[berries]

I am going to be buying ram tomorow, and I need to know how to figure out if its bh-5 or not. I was originally planning to buy the 1gb package of 3700 corsair, is that ram bh-5? Or should I look for 3500 corsair, which one is better? Or should I get some other brand than corsair? Also there is some ram apparently that is bh-6.... is that ram any good or what?

[buff]

Good explanation grace..... anyways, BH-5 tends to hit higher FSB also compared to CH-5

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by buff
BH-5 tends to hit higher FSB also compared to CH-5

Ummm...I think not. CH5 runs loose timings at high fsb speeds. BH5 runs slower, but with tight timings, and can catch and beat CH5 in overall performance. But, generally speaking, CH5 with loose timings will burry BH5 in sheer FSB.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by Tedinde
What brand is this BH5- 4200??

A friend of mine bought KXH3700 that is BH5.

Originally posted by mdzcpa
Ummm...I think not. CH5 runs loose timings at high fsb speeds. BH5 runs slower, but with tight timings, and can catch and beat CH5 in overall performance. But, generally speaking, CH5 with loose timings will burry BH5 in sheer FSB.

It would have to be quite alot of mhz for the CH5 to make up the difference in performance versus slower running BH5 correct...?

[texuspete00]

... but with a lot of volts. Hence no PC3700 etc that I know of. Could be wrong though.

So basically if you want bh5, try some mushkin black level 2, or hyperx 3200 non A. You want BH5 for tight timings but it would be nice to have a fair amount of vdimm for high fsb and 2-2-2-5.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by texuspete2k2
... but with a lot of volts. Hence no PC3700 etc that I know of.

Not sure what voltage he is running....but he isnt a heavy overclocker, so no vmods or anything like that....he is using a DFI i believe.

He said he took off the spreaders and sure enough BH5...so I will take his word for it since he has no reason to lie about it.

Its rated at 3-4-4-8....but thats at 233fsb....so can run tighter timings at slower speeds I am wagering. But like I said,,,not my ram so I dont know for sure.

[texuspete00]

I mentioned more for explaining thread topic's question. By clarifying why BH5 is the apparent shizzle but it's not usually in PC3700. They continue to scale MHz with volts and retain tight timings.

My DFI Infinity has 3.3vdim. I just think it's nice to have 3.0vdimm or so, and if spending the extra scratch on BH5 its especially nice.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë
It would have to be quite alot of mhz for the CH5 to make up the difference in performance versus slower running BH5 correct...?

Yes. Most users find going with BH5 to be the better answer.

For AMD rigs, running BH5 in 1:1 works great, allowing many NF2 boards to run 200 to 225 with tight timings easily. No need for CH5 on AMD systems at all.

For Intel, even though high FSB speeds can be acheived with the P4, most find that running BH5 with tight timings at 5:4 is just as good, if not better, than running CH5 at 1:1 with looser timings. This ability is due primarily to the Canterwood/Sprindale chipsets which do not result in big latency penalties when running asynchronously (unlike the Nvidia and VIA chipsets).

That said, there is indeed a small window to use CH5 on Intel rigs. If you're running in the 240 to 260 range, I've consistently found that CH5 can run at CAS 2.5 7,3,3 and beat BH5 with tight tmings running 5:4. Above 160 or so, the need to drop the CH5 to CAS 3 is a killer. Below that, you might just as well run BH5 1:1 with plenty of voltage.

[berries]

so which ram is better 3700 or 3500 bh-5?

[Grace]

Originally posted by berries
I am going to be buying ram tomorow, and I need to know how to figure out if its bh-5 or not. I was originally planning to buy the 1gb package of 3700 corsair, is that ram bh-5? Or should I look for 3500 corsair, which one is better? Or should I get some other brand than corsair? Also there is some ram apparently that is bh-6.... is that ram any good or what?


You can only figure it out really by looking at the chips.

Corsair Pc3700 is 100% not BH-5
Corsair Pc3500 first shipments were BH-5, they are extinct now.

The only granted BH-5 are the Mushkin Pc3200/Pc3500 Level 2 and the OCZ Pc3500EL Limited Edition around those ratings.

A friend of mine bought KXH3700 that is BH5.

As far as I know, there is only 1 version of KHX3700 out and its carrying Samsung CCC chips.
You can pretty well test it without even taking the heatspreader off. Run 3v+ through the memory and try to run 2/6/2/2. BH-5 will do that, Samsung CCC won't ever. And HyperX Pc3700 won't ever.


Good explanation grace..... anyways, BH-5 tends to hit higher FSB also compared to CH-5


Ummm...I think not. CH5 runs loose timings at high fsb speeds.

Thank you Buff.

However, why don't you both agree that since overclocking is pure gambling, both those situations are very much possible? There are many CH-5 modules around that won't overclock well at all and BH-5 will surpass them even by MHz, there are many bad BH-5 around that some CH-5 will overclock way further that them.

[berries]

Originally posted by berries
so which ram is better 3700 or 3500 bh-5?

[Grace]

Originally posted by berries
so which ram is better 3700 or 3500 bh-5?

As far as I know the only Pc3700 carrying BH-5 are the buffalo modules. So Pc3500 modules of other companies will be better.

And all BH-5 are BH-5, they just have a slightly better chance on higher rated modules. My Pc2700 carries BH-6 and still it pretty much better than most Pc3500 modules.

[Dajo]

the 2700 models of corsair is often BH5.... Just throw some volts at them and they will fly

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Grace
why don't you both agree that since overclocking is pure gambling, both those situations are very much possible? There are many CH-5 modules around that won't overclock well at all and BH-5 will surpass them even by MHz

Sorry, but I can not agree with this at all:). I quote myself:

But, generally speaking, CH5 with loose timings will burry BH5 in sheer FSB.

This is a fact. Although we can always point to examples that differ from the norm, I like to deal with the most likely outcomes when it comes to performance expectations.

I'm not referring to which chips overclock the best (overclock as defined by how much over spec). When it comes down to sheer mhz, ch5 chip sticks run higher....generally speaking. This is obviously why CH5 is found on all of the PC4000 and 4400 sticks. I've yet to see a single brand of BH5 sticks run consistently higher than any PC4000 or 4400 on the market. This, of course, does not include system incompatabilities or user error.


Originally posted by berries
so which ram is better 3700 or 3500 bh-5?

I think I gave you everything you need to know above. Like most hardware, your intended use dictates what you should get. If you're running an AMD system...go BH5 definitely. If you're running Intel, most likely BH5 is what you want. Only if you fall into the range I noted above would you even want to consider CH5 sticks...and they need to be PC4000 or 4400.

Get the Mushkin Lvl 2 BH5 and be done with it.

[Grace]

Originally posted by mdzcpa
Sorry, but I can not agree with this at all:). I quote myself:

But, generally speaking, CH5 with loose timings will burry BH5 in sheer FSB.

This is a fact. Although we can always point to examples that differ from the norm, I like to deal with the most likely outcomes when it comes to performance expectations.

I'm not referring to which chips overclock the best (overclock as defined by how much over spec). When it comes down to sheer mhz, ch5 chip sticks run higher....generally speaking. This is obviously why CH5 is found on all of the PC4000 and 4400 sticks. I've yet to see a single brand of BH5 sticks run consistently higher than any PC4000 or 4400 on the market. This, of course, does not include system incompatabilities or user error.


Well, generally speaking CH-5 and BH-5 average overclock is about the same MHz under the 'stock' conditions. CH-5 goes further because it accepts the higher timings better and needs less power due to its design (0.13m) when it comes to overclocking. That is, a raise of 0.3Vdimm will affect the CH-5 more than the BH-5 plus since it accepts and runs at higher timings they will go further.

CH-5 chips aren't used in anything over Pc3700 and that's a very few select modules as well. CH-5 are still rated as 5ns chips and are used on Pc3200/Pc3500 modules. And PC4000/PC4200/PC4400 never had CH-5 on them, all of these use Hynix (the vast majority) or Samsung chips.

Edit : Plus, you DO agree with it. You say 'generally speaking', hence you DO accept that the opposite can happen. There are CH-5 modules that even with the most loose timings will not surpass some BH-5 modules.

[skate2snow]

CH5 will do higher MHz w/ lower volts, but BH5 can go at the same w/ higher volts, so not for 24/7. CH5 and BH5 clock for clock the BH5 wins, but by not that much(ive tested that, so dont say im wrong!) my CH5@3.3V and 2-3-3-7 did around 275(4:5) and it was stable!!!!!!! sorry i cant show you a screenie, ive blow my mobo, my only one:(.

[Grace]

Originally posted by skate2snow
CH5 will do higher MHz w/ lower volts, but BH5 can go at the same w/ higher volts, so not for 24/7. CH5 and BH5 clock for clock the BH5 wins, but by not that much(ive tested that, so dont say im wrong!)

Well, given the fact that BH-5 can take all the volts and with no problems where CH-5 will not even work or severely degrade, I'd say that BH-5 can run 24/7 pretty easily at high voltages. I run mine with over 3.1-3.2v for over a year.

Now, -clock per clock- if you mean at the same timings, they actually perform exactly the same. If you mean the BH-5 at 2/6/2/2 and the CH-5 at 2.5/6/3/3 or so, you are wrong, there is a very big difference. If you tested it using synthetic benchmarks, you just didn't see it because those benchmarks don't reflect it.

And 275 at 2/7/3/3 is nothing....running 270 and at 2/5/2/2 with all motherboard accelerations enabled with BH-6 Pc2700 ValueRAM modules, THAT is something...:p:
Broke your heart?

[bocage]

mine bh-5 are doing just fine! 3.3V
need to vmod psu for more voltage!

[skate2snow]

Fock GRACE!!!!!!!! I was thinking i was doing great whit my RAMs but ive not;). But5 im limited at 3.3V and i cant find a mod. What volts are you at??

And when ive said CH5 and BH5 BH5 wins clock by clock, it was at 2-2-3-7 and ive not even win by 50-100@ sandra unbuffered

[Grace]

Originally posted by skate2snow
Fock GRACE!!!!!!!! I was thinking i was doing great whit my RAMs but ive not;). But5 im limited at 3.3V and i cant find a mod. What volts are you at??

And when ive said CH5 and BH5 BH5 wins clock by clock, it was at 2-2-3-7 and ive not even win by 50-100@ sandra unbuffered

3.42v real, if my memory serves. It's been a while since I did that screenshot.

Sisoft Sandra can't show the real benefit of the lower timings, it is a synthetic benchmark. Running real-world benchmarks will make the difference pretty obvious.

Want to try something? Run at 2/6/3/2 and then at 2.5/6/3/2. You'll get about the same results. If RtC won't go to 2, CAS at 2 is next to useless. That little 3 there is a very vast difference, it is the most important timing of all.

[berries]

what if you are not going to overclock at all? or at least not too much? Then its about the same?

[Grace]

Originally posted by berries
what if you are not going to overclock at all? or at least not too much? Then its about the same?

Then the RAM that can handle the lowest timings wins.

But if you aren't going to overclock at all or not much, you aren't a 'speed freak'. If you aren't a speed freak, you should just get cheap modules with good warranty, nothing else.

[Soulburner]

If you aren't overclocking just buy anything with low latency (2-3-2-6 is fine).

You will never tell the difference unless you do a lot of benchmarking.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by Grace
Well, given the fact that BH-5 can take all the volts and with no problems where CH-5 will not even work or severely degrade, I'd say that BH-5 can run 24/7 pretty easily at high voltages. I run mine with over 3.1-3.2v for over a year.

Now, -clock per clock- if you mean at the same timings, they actually perform exactly the same. If you mean the BH-5 at 2/6/2/2 and the CH-5 at 2.5/6/3/3 or so, you are wrong, there is a very big difference. If you tested it using synthetic benchmarks, you just didn't see it because those benchmarks don't reflect it.

And 275 at 2/7/3/3 is nothing....running 270 and at 2/5/2/2 with all motherboard accelerations enabled with BH-6 Pc2700 ValueRAM modules, THAT is something...:p:
Broke your heart?

OMG....thats nice action there Grace.

Sorry, didnt know much about the HyperX 3700 modules....espec the use of the Sammy ICs. I will go to my friends place and take a closer look at his sticks as I am now interestetd to see whats what.