2 Pelts and 1 Heatercore

[BoomStick]

Should I consider adding maybe another heatercore to my loop as I am running a dual 120mm heatercore with 2 135cfm screamers on it?

I run a 226 watt pelted cpu block, a chipset block, and the 80watt pelted vid block.

Maybe a single 80/120mm heatercore would help...not sure what that would do to my flow rates though.

[mdzcpa]

A single high quality twin 120mm rad with high cfm fams should handle things just fine.

On another note, though, I wouldn't recommend cooling you NB in the same loop as the TEC blocks. Unless you're using a chiller, the water will be too warm.

[sandman]

If you do cool the NB too, I'd put it right after the rad.

[BoomStick]

How about the idea of splitting the output line from the heatercore into 3 lines going into the inlets of the blocks, then the outlets all going to the res?

I was thinking that would get the coldest water to all the blocks at the same time and without passing any hot water to the next block since they are sending the water to the res versus going cpu>nb>gpu.

Wonder what that would do to the flow rate? It shouldnt affect it much as the lines would be short to being with. I would have a single hose come from the outlet of the heatercore, then use splitters to seperate that line into lines heading into all 3 blocks.

Would that work, or should I possibly grab a small rad/heatercore (maybe single 80mm) and place it after the cpu so that the water gets a little cooler before hitting the nb? Are you thinking that maybe send the water to the cpu>gpu>res>nb>pump>rad>cpu..?

[mdzcpa]

Your moving into deeper waters here....no pun intended:)

Splitting the lines can be done effectively, but it is not as easy as it sounds. Often times there are problems with equal flow rates (or close to equal). Sometimes and entire parallel line can be alomost "dead" with little to no flow. The risk of this happening grows with the number of parallel loops you run. Valves and reducers can help prevent this, but its not easy.

The other very important characteristic about water cooling is that the water temps are almost exactly the same at any point in the system. The water exiting the rad is only slightly cooler than the water entering.

Think of your system as just one unit. Heat is added to the unit by the CPU/GPU/NB and TECs. Heat is removed by the fans/rad. Water temps result from the difference between the two. Another important factor is that the rad becomes more effective as the difference between water temps and ambient temps grow. (IE the warmer the water, the more that will be removed).

The system finds its balance between heat input, and heat output with the output being variable as temps rise and fall.

Whew...the bottom line is that unless you provide serious cooling of the water (huge rad and big pump...or chiller), no matter where you put the NB block in the loop, or in parallel, it will still be too warm. Your best bet is to get an old MCW40+T and TEC cool the NB too.

Sorry about the long post:)

[BoomStick]

No worries about the long post, it helped me think more about it before making possibly a poor design decision.

Hows this then since I do not want to TEC cool the NB as well:

Put a 80mm heatercore in the loop just for the NB and run the VID/CPU off my big heatercore. I would have the NB rad dumping straight into the res as well as the other blocks since it has 2 inputs and 2 outputs.

Worst comes to worst I will grab a MCW40-T is I have to. Are you sure htey mount to the NB without a hassle?

[mdzcpa]

The MCW40 is a bit of a hassle. Most folks epoxy it to the NB.

If you do not go that route, adding the second rad will help as it will increase your overall heat dissapation capability.

I would suggest:

Res>pump>*split*>CPU>GPU>heatercore>Res

*split*>80mm rad>NB>Res

This way the NB flow has an extra shot at more cooling before it goes to the NB block. The NB will add very little heat, so going straight to the Res after will not matter.

The gain would be minimal as to cooling the water the NB sees, but it will help a little.

An easier way might be just to run a single loop and place the large rad before the res and the small rad before the NB.

Res>small rad>NB>CPU>GPU>large rad>Res

Again, the concept is that the water temps anywhere in the system will be the almost same. Adding the second rad anywhere in the system will help.

[sandman]

If you haven't bought the NB block yet, may I suggest a very good aircooler though. Should work almost as well, and probably as well if the water is warm.

[mdzcpa]

^^^^^ This is really the best bet IMOHO. Swiftech offers one awesome NB heatsink.

This will keep your flow rates higher, and you won't have all the hassle.

[Slickthellama]

oh I am so sick of people watercooling the northbridge. gimme a break, the most you are going to get is maybe 2 extra mhz on the HIGH fsb. Unless you are significantly increasing your AGP voltage there is no reason watercool the chipset. YEAH the big guys do it on their phase change systems... but they need the extra 2 mhz just to know they have them. TRUST ME, it isnt worth the extra mhz to watercool your northbridge, much less TEC cool it. The heat that would add offsets any benefit from cooling it. Get a TT tiger and never look back. I just saved you alot of trouble. Personally, when my NB got hot, IT GOT HOT! The heatsink burned my finger. All I did was epoxy an ATI fan I got off my dead 9700 onto the stock HS and the temps are now 30C and never go higher, even when I use 1.9 volts on the AGP.

[BoomStick]

Ok then, how about if I am running 2.0v or maybe little higher (max 2.2v) through the NB, will a decent active cooler handle that without the heat causing issues at high fsb?

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
oh I am so sick of people watercooling the northbridge. gimme a break, the most you are going to get is maybe 2 extra mhz on the HIGH fsb. Unless you are significantly increasing your AGP voltage there is no reason watercool the chipset. YEAH the big guys do it on their phase change systems... but they need the extra 2 mhz just to know they have them. TRUST ME, it isnt worth the extra mhz to watercool your northbridge, much less TEC cool it. The heat that would add offsets any benefit from cooling it. Get a TT tiger and never look back. I just saved you alot of trouble. Personally, when my NB got hot, IT GOT HOT! The heatsink burned my finger. All I did was epoxy an ATI fan I got off my dead 9700 onto the stock HS and the temps are now 30C and never go higher, even when I use 1.9 volts on the AGP.

Ok man, no offense to you...BUT, this is XtremeSystems as far as I am aware.

That means I am looking for the extra 2mhz as you put it. I want everything I can squeeze out of my system period. If that means water cooling over active cooling will get me those extra few mhz, then so be it.

On another note, if the water cooling isnt gonna help versus the hassle of setting up the extra rad and what not, then I wont bother. Besides, I am going crazy waiting on the NB water block as it was sold out.....

Thanks to everyone for their help.

[Slickthellama]

ok... but if you're feeding more than 1.9 volts to the AGP bus you're going to ruin the card and or the motherboard. But do what you like. Not only that, but it will add heat to your system, therefore you might actually lower your overclock. But you know what, do what you like. Im done trying to convince people watercooling the northbridge is pointless. Make your own mistakes.

[sandman]

whare are you getting the AGP at?

Watercooling the northbridge would cost me the same as getting a high end aircooler for it.

[Slickthellama]

If the NB has a fan on it that's all you need.

[sandman]

No, it isn't.

Not if you have an Nforce 2 with 2V going through it......

[Slickthellama]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

2V!!?!?!?!? to where?

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
:eek: :eek: :eek:

2V!!?!?!?!? to where?
+
Just to make sure we are all talking about the same thing here:

We are saying pushing 1.85-2.2v+ into the NB/Chipset....some people call that also AGP voltage because the NB sits near the AGP slot, which is wrong as AGP voltage is something entirely different.

Most people are talking about NB/Chipset voltage when they are saying AGP voltage.

I am hoping the MCX159-A from Swifty will suffice versus water cooling the NB. Its a very nice product.

I dont want to have to start setting up seperate loops, or parallel loops, or pelting the NB as I dont have the cash to do that. Although the water block is same price as the air cooled (cheaper actually), I would have to consider spending the extra cash for another heatercore, plus fans, etc etc.

I almost went with another pump and a single 120mm heatercore for the NB but figured that was excessive.

[mdzcpa]

We're talking about VDD, not AGP voltage.

VDD is the voltage supplied to the chipset. AGP voltage is the voltage supplied to the AGP slot.

Raising AGP voltage does little to effect NB temps.

Raising VDD effects NB temps ALOT.

Slickthellama: You should be a little easier on your comments. And be a little more correct before you come slamming down on someone. Although serious cooling on the NB isn't usually effective for most boards out today, the NF2 is definitely an exception. Have you owned an NF2 board?

I've successfully complete a number of VDD mods on NF7 v1.2 boards. The in BIOS choice max of 1.7v was not enough. By doing the VDD mod, and pushing 2.1 to the chipset, I gained a totally stable 15-20mhz. This kind of mod (or a BIOS that offers higher VDD) requires robust cooling of the northbridge....more than the Tiger can handle.

Get your facts straight before you slam:)

All that said, a good active NB HSF unit would be enough to handle up to 2v VDD. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to water cool the NB, but it will allow VDD in the 2.2v range safely. I'd get the Swifty and call it a day.

[sandman]

^^well said :)

[Slickthellama]

Originally posted by mdzcpa
We're talking about VDD, not AGP voltage.

VDD is the voltage supplied to the chipset. AGP voltage is the voltage supplied to the AGP slot.

Raising AGP voltage does little to effect NB temps.

Raising VDD effects NB temps ALOT.

Slickthellama: You should be a little easier on your comments. And be a little more correct before you come slamming down on someone. Although serious cooling on the NB isn't usually effective for most boards out today, the NF2 is definitely an exception. Have you owned an NF2 board?

I've successfully complete a number of VDD mods on NF7 v1.2 boards. The in BIOS choice max of 1.7v was not enough. By doing the VDD mod, and pushing 2.1 to the chipset, I gained a totally stable 15-20mhz. This kind of mod (or a BIOS that offers higher VDD) requires robust cooling of the northbridge....more than the Tiger can handle.

Get your facts straight before you slam:)

All that said, a good active NB HSF unit would be enough to handle up to 2v VDD. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to water cool the NB, but it will allow VDD in the 2.2v range safely. I'd get the Swifty and call it a day.

ive never owned an NF7, but I know a guy who hits 2670mhz on a barton and has no more than a TT tiger on the the northbridge. In fact he has tried waterblocks and found them less effective than the TT tiger. Im just making the point that many people make a big deal of NB cooling. Slap a TT tiger or swiffy cooler on it and be done. Dont drag this out.

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
ive never owned an NF7, but I know a guy who hits 2670mhz on a barton and has no more than a TT tiger on the the northbridge. In fact he has tried waterblocks and found them less effective than the TT tiger. Im just making the point that many people make a big deal of NB cooling. Slap a TT tiger or swiffy cooler on it and be done. Dont drag this out.

Not trying to drag anything out bud, just trying to make an informed decision based on the experience from the members of this Forum. ;)

Look at it this way, I want to setup the best water rig I can based on the components I have purchased....also, wanted to know whether active or water was best for NB. Got all my concerns answered and can now move forward and finish this thing.

If by dragging it out you mean taking the time to plan accordingly and get otehr people input, then I will drag drag drag until the cows come home. It sucks to get something together, just to realize that you have to redo things because you didnt plan properly or get the experience of people that have been down the road you are traveling.

That being said, thanks to everyone for their help, and for hte time being I am going with the MCX159 active block versus water. If my temps arent gr8 on the NB I will move to water/pelts as I plan on 2v+.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
ive never owned an NF7, but I know a guy who hits 2670mhz on a barton and has no more than a TT tiger on the the northbridge. In fact he has tried waterblocks and found them less effective than the TT tiger.

Total CPU mhz has little to do with NB cooling. You can get plenty of XPs to OC that high by just changing the multipier (and providing adequate cooling of course).

On the other hand, NB voltage (and heat ) have much to do with the ability to hit high FSB speeds on NF2 boards. Maximizing the FSB is always a goal for any overclock, especially with the latest boards that have locking AGP/PCI buses.

I would strongly doubt the capabilities of anyone who found that air cooling was more effective then water cooling on an NF2. That's just plain ludicrous. I could see there being no gain by going with water if the FSB and VDD were kept lower. But to be less effective...that's just scary.

If you think watercooling or TEC cooling the NB of NF2 boards is a waste of time, hey, thats your opinion...great we're all entitled to one. But, make no mistake, most serious overclockers who has been through the NF2 boards in search of the best clocks have added serious cooling to the NB. Just search the forums and see.

Sorry for the long post, I just don't want misinformation about the NF2 NB topic out there.


Originally posted by BoomStick
That being said, thanks to everyone for their help, and for hte time being I am going with the MCX159 active block versus water. If my temps arent gr8 on the NB I will move to water/pelts as I plan on 2v+.

Sounds like a very solid plan. Keep us posted:)

[Slickthellama]

Originally posted by BoomStick
That being said, thanks to everyone for their help, and for hte time being I am going with the MCX159 active block versus water. If my temps arent gr8 on the NB I will move to water/pelts as I plan on 2v+.

good choice. My work is done here

[mdzcpa]

Thank God ...you've done quite a "job" here already:rolleyes:

Glad he didn't listen and get the TT Tiger and went instead with the much better Swiftech NB HSF. The TT couldn't have handled the higher end of the VDD scale.

[Slickthellama]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
Slap a TT tiger or swiffy cooler on it and be done.

i clearly said "OR SWIFFY COOLER"

btw

what is your problem?

[sandman]

If he would have listened to you in the first place he would have wasted money on the TT tiger.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
what is your problem?

My problem is that I strongly dislike the spread of misinformation from those with bad attitudes that clearly don't know what the hell they are talking about.

You entered this thread belittling BoomStick for even considering pelt or watercooling the northbridge of his NF2. That comment alone pretty much summed up what you knew about the topic LOL. And, quite frankly, its not so much your ignorance (as we all have a lot to learn in life), but your crappy attitude.


Originally posted by Slickthellama
oh I am so sick of people watercooling the northbridge. gimme a break

Yeah, nice friendly way to enter a thread. :rolleyes:

Then, after being a complete jacka$$, you go on, continuing to argue that cooling the NB of an NF2 board with water is a waste even after the facts were presented to you. All the while, the argument comes from a guy who hasn't owned an NF2 board, and doesn't even know the basic difference between VDD and AGP voltage, LOL....jeezuz give me the break:rolleyes:

You may be surprised to know that there are actually a few folks here who know thier stuff. If might benefit you to argue a little less and listen a little more. There's already a thread here at XS about just this topic....."new members with poor attitudes and a lot to learn." Ignorance and bad attitude do not mix well.

Here's the thread for your reference. I recommend you take the time to read it.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25216

So that's my problem. Clear enough:)

BTW, sandman suggested the Swifty way before you, and I agreed with him, before you even mentioned it;)

[Slickthellama]

Originally posted by mdzcpa
Then, after being a complete jacka$$,

im glad we cant argue without name calling.:(

how nice of you.

[Slickthellama]

actually, increasing AGP voltage does heat up the NB.

[sandman]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
actually, increasing AGP voltage does heat up the NB.

It does, but only marginally, so it isn't really of much concern here.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Slickthellama
im glad we cant argue without name calling.:(

how nice of you.

My apologies. I have no right to break the forum rules, and you didn't deserve that either. My only excuse is that I am highly sensitive to our members maintaining the very freindly atmosphere we've had here from the beginning. Although I was over the top, I still hope you understand the point I was trying to make. Friendly, tolerant, and open minded is always the way to enter any thread.

No disrespect:toast:

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by mdzcpa
My apologies. I have no right to break the forum rules, and you didn't deserve that either. My only excuse is that I am highly sensitive to our members maintaining the very freindly atmosphere we've had here from the beginning. Although I was over the top, I still hope you understand the point I was trying to make. Friendly, tolerant, and open minded is always the way to enter any thread.

No disrespect:toast:

Nicely done mdzcpa.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.