ONLY YOU CAN HELP! P4 question [Archive]

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 11:58 AM

I got a 2.8Ghz yesterday and am not happy with the overclock so the sales person at frys said to return it and get another one but shouldn't I return it to another Frys Electronic's location?
I was thinking they stepping might be different at another store location. Or should I just return it to the same location and get a 3Ghz.

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 12:03 PM

Should i get a new board, I was eyeing the P4C800 Deluxe or something like that, I likes the MSI b/c i didnt think it would need voltage mods but Its CPU voltages are way unstable and its hurting my OC IMO

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 12:10 PM

you should buy a new board before change your CPU

lalPOOO

12-02-2003, 01:29 PM

Why?
I think i'd make more sense to get a new cpu first, because as long as he gets another 2.8c, he can compare the results directly between the two chips. If hes got the same limits, then he'll know for sure that its the board.

(unless the msi neo2 really sucks... )

xDUCK

12-02-2003, 01:38 PM

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 02:04 PM

As others will agree, P4 processors are a total Crap Shoot, I builld quite a few systems, I've had P4C's that would barely do 100 mhz over rated speed, and a rare 1.5 ghz over rated...

I would suggest trying another processor if your power supply is healthy. Not sure why so many Crap on the MSI boards, the ones I've had have typically pulled a better OC then the Abit/Asus boards.

I know most peepz that flame MSI haven't tried one. I do prefer Abit/Asus boards, but only because they have better bios support, although MSI' latest bios for the 865/875 boards solves quite a few issues..

If MSI ever gets the bios 100% the P4 boards would be quite nice. I haven't had any voltage fluctuation issues on the MSI boards I've tried.

Since you've only got 10 days on the processor make sure to get it back before then, I'm betting another board isn't going to help, unless you happen to have a bad board, which I doubt..

saaya

12-02-2003, 02:09 PM

i tried 2 msi boards and a card and they were really crappy... but that was over a year ago, i heard msi changed a lot in the last months...

back then they practically had NO support, just a support forum wich took 5 min to load the front page and only 1 moderator to answered questions! :eek:

what do you mean with bad oc? bad oc like below average or bad oc like below 4ghz? :D

if you oc is below average get a new one, if its below 4ghz you dont really have a high chance getting a better one...

well are you happy with the cpu you got? if you definately want a higher oc ask for a new chip, and if that one doesnt do it either ask for another one... :D

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 02:18 PM

Thanks for the replies, keep them comming please. :banana:

Originally posted by Karnivore
As others will agree, P4 processors are a total Crap Shoot, I builld quite a few systems, I've had P4C's that would barely do 100 mhz over rated speed, and a rare 1.5 ghz over rated...

I would suggest trying another processor if your power supply is healthy. Not sure why so many Crap on the MSI boards, the ones I've had have typically pulled a better OC then the Abit/Asus boards.

I know most peepz that flame MSI haven't tried one. I do prefer Abit/Asus boards, but only because they have better bios support, although MSI' latest bios for the 865/875 boards solves quite a few issues..

If MSI ever gets the bios 100% the P4 boards would be quite nice. I haven't had any voltage fluctuation issues on the MSI boards I've tried.

Since you've only got 10 days on the processor make sure to get it back before then, I'm betting another board isn't going to help, unless you happen to have a bad board, which I doubt..

Whats about normal for the CPU voltage? It jumps from 1.6 to as low as 1.52 under load. I got my Antec True 380 thats fully modded and has more powerful fans in it but I will give my modded Enermax EG-651FMA a shot and see if its better.

The thing I hate about returneding my CPU is I'm worried about getting one that is worse, I might go buy another and take back the worse one. Would getting an OEM chip be the same as a box minus the warrenty, P4 sticker and HSF. I fell like an a'hole returning box version CPU's.

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by lalPOOO
Why?
I think i'd make more sense to get a new cpu first, because as long as he gets another 2.8c, he can compare the results directly between the two chips. If hes got the same limits, then he'll know for sure that its the board.

(unless the msi neo2 really sucks... ) he should take a new mobo first coze MSI is not the best companie...lol. and coze 2.8 not sucks like the MSI

BTW. ive just take an MSI coze its was very cheap and when ive purchased i wasent know much on comp

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by saaya

what do you mean with bad oc? bad oc like below average or bad oc like below 4ghz? :D

if you oc is below average get a new one, if its below 4ghz you dont really have a high chance getting a better one...

well are you happy with the cpu you got? if you definately want a higher oc ask for a new chip, and if that one doesnt do it either ask for another one... :D

I was looking to hit 3.5 or 3.6Ghz, something thats going to look good under a prometia mach1 :D

saaya

12-02-2003, 02:49 PM

not even 3.5ghz? thats really below average afaik.

i think you should try a new board first though, if its the cpu then you can still ask for a new one later and i dont think the asus or abit boards will be worse than the msi board so even if its the cpu and the msi board was fine you dont really lose anything :D

you can only win, better mainboard or better mainboard AND better cpu :D

wespwnzu

12-02-2003, 02:49 PM

thats wierd, cuz my 2.8 can bench @ 3.4 stock cooling and stock volts.. And i can run stable at 3.2 24/7 with everything working. sound gets fuzzy at 3.4 with stock volts tho.

saaya

12-02-2003, 02:55 PM

3.35ghz is a joke for a 2.8c! theres either something really wrong with the board/memory or you have a really crappy cpu! very old stepping maybe?

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 03:07 PM

The 865 Neo 2 I have, is running a 2.8C right now @ 3.5ghz cooled with an SLK 900, voltage variance with a 350 watt Antec supply is less than .01, The supply is dead stable though, I've modded it with additional Electrolytic Caps to help keep voltages stable.

Barring any memory problems if your MSI board can't take the 2.8C to 3.5 it is most likely CPU issues, given a good processor MSI boards don't have a problem in the 300 FSB ballpark... and since your goal is 250ish FSB I don't think it warrants the additional cost of a new board, however if you can return the board and try a different one @ no cost, give it a shot...

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by saaya
3.35ghz is a joke for a 2.8c! theres either something really wrong with the board/memory or you have a really crappy cpu! very old stepping maybe?

LOL, my worst clocking P4C out of 40 some processors was a 2.8C which barely made 3.0 stable, Of all the P4C processors I've had the worst luck with 2.8C Costa's, 8 out of 10 times the 2.4 would out clock the 2.8 i've had...

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 03:14 PM

CSOFT, try different memory timings and try SPD too. And whats your NB temps????you too karnivore

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by saaya
not even 3.5ghz? thats really below average afaik.

i think you should try a new board first though, if its the cpu then you can still ask for a new one later and i dont think the asus or abit boards will be worse than the msi board so even if its the cpu and the msi board was fine you dont really lose anything :D

you can only win, better mainboard or better mainboard AND better cpu :D

I was just trying to 3.5 - 3.6 b/c I figured that was about the minimun I wanted to stick under a prometia to even be worth it.

__________________________________________________

I running 1.7V to try max it out on good (IMO :D ) water cooling. I can't turn the voltage any higher b/c the next option up is 1.8V and so on.... that must be for celeron use :D

____
I'm at work, but its a maley or something date is around 10/2003 so its not that old.
____
I'm running 1:1 now with 3.2V and weak timings, but when overclcoking I tryed 5:4 and 3:2 with crappy timings and hit voltage. NB feels pretty cool, I read on MSI's site theres no monitor for it so the temps MSI's monitor software reports are bogus. My AGP is always at 1.6V

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 04:00 PM

ya but put your finger on it you will no what i meen...LOL

saaya

12-02-2003, 04:18 PM

engrish?

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by CSOFT
I read on MSI's site theres no monitor for it so the temps MSI's monitor software reports are bogus. My AGP is always at 1.6V

Wow, strange, seems relatively accurate for no sensor???? The reading in corecell is within .1 of my sensor on the compunurse...

Skate, here is a screenie of my temps as read by corecell, and verified within 1c by compunurse, this is completely air cooled, in a low airflow quiet case...

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 04:28 PM

A shot of the MSI with a 2.4C on air...

kromosto

12-02-2003, 04:30 PM

i build lots of p4 systems for my friends with 3.0 2.8 2.6 and 2.4 and found that finding a good ocer 2.8 is really very very difficult compared to others at least in turkey its like that

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 04:34 PM

but why 2.8C is so poor???

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by skate2snow
but why 2.8C is so poor???

Just my opinion, but logic would seem that the high priced 2.8C has less demand then 2.4C and since the demand is not high they have time to speed bin the 2.8C, so 2.8C=failed 3.0C.. High demand for 2.4C makes speed binning not economical so potential 3.2C+ end up in the 2.4C pile....

faruquehabib

12-02-2003, 04:42 PM

i reached 3.5 ghz w/ a 2.4c costa rica and an IS7 on air...

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 04:43 PM

Karnivore, I see that your voltage is at 1.63V on one and 1.65 on another, is that what you get using the 1.7V setting I'm guessing?

kromosto, good to know I'm going to get a 3.0C and see what I can do.

Its like saaya said, I can only win (I hope :D ). I'm going to play around with it for a few then pull it out to take it back. If I dont get a killer oc on this board at least I can use the board to give me an idea of what the chip can do.

If I could hook my computer up in my car id take it to frys and buy oem chips and take them back until I got a good one :D

Thanks again for EVERYONES comments/post, you guys are great :banana:

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by CSOFT
Karnivore, I see that your voltage is at 1.63V on one and 1.65 on another, is that what you get using the 1.7V setting I'm guessing?

Yeah, thats set @ 1.7 in Bios, CPUZ seems to always read different voltages then other monitoring software.
That is probably the biggest gripe I have with the MSI boards is the Vcore voltage settings, they should keep selection same all the way to the top, 1.7,1.8, etc, although I think my 1.8 in bios is about 1.75 actual, which is about as high as I care to take the P4C.

skate2snow

12-02-2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by CSOFT

Its like saaya said, I can only win (I hope :D ). I'm going to play around with it for a few then pull it out to take it back. If I dont get a killer oc on this board at least I can use the board to give me an idea of what the chip can do. saaya said you can lose nothing by buying an ASUS P4P800-e DELUXE( irecommend rev2.0) becose if the problem is the board you have it and if not you have the best board and change your CPU

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 07:56 PM

I gatta 2.6C, Frys was out of boxed and OEM 3C's.

Karnivore

12-02-2003, 08:02 PM

GL, let us no how it works out for ya..

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 11:43 PM

Its maxing out around 3.4Ghz at 1.7V

It locks at 263FSB with the ram at 3:2. I redid my northbrigde heatsink with AS5, I hooked up my enermax and pointed a Tornado fan at the board and nothing.

I'm thinking maybe I should replace the board with the P4C800 Deluxe, is that the best one for overclocking?

The CPU says...

SL6WS Costa Rica
3340A074

CSOFT

12-02-2003, 11:49 PM

One thing I thought was strange is when the CPU was under load (running sisoft sandra benchmarks) CoreCenter would say the CPU was at over 4Ghz then jump back down, its happened a couple times, it dont lockup so its not really going that high.

Karnivore

12-03-2003, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by CSOFT
One thing I thought was strange is when the CPU was under load (running sisoft sandra benchmarks) CoreCenter would say the CPU was at over 4Ghz then jump back down, its happened a couple times, it dont lockup so its not really going that high.

You have the DOC enabled yet?

CSOFT

12-03-2003, 12:49 AM

no, the first time I saw it I was thinking I disabled it for sure, went back and checked and it was disabled. I've reset the BIOS but it didnt help

1.8V CPU seems to be its most solid voltage setting out of the ones I've tried, but I dont want to run 1.8V all the time.

Karnivore

12-03-2003, 02:57 AM

Only time I've seen core center jump around like that is when DOC was enabled, I think it was bios 1.8 that gave me issues with not being able to turn off DOC, you running the latest bios release, thing 1.9, released a few days ago...

skate2snow

12-03-2003, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by CSOFT
Its maxing out around 3.4Ghz at 1.7V

It locks at 263FSB with the ram at 3:2. I redid my northbrigde heatsink with AS5, I hooked up my enermax and pointed a Tornado fan at the board and nothing.

I'm thinking maybe I should replace the board with the P4C800 Deluxe, is that the best one for overclocking?

The CPU says...

SL6WS Costa Rica
3340A074 P4P800-E DELUXE is the best but ABIT IC7 MAX-3 seems to be good too

CSOFT

12-03-2003, 08:47 AM

Yah I got the 1.9 BIOS

Karnivore

12-03-2003, 12:11 PM

If I were you I wouldn't bother with those in-between processors, go with a 2.4 (although you mentioned phase change so probly not best choice) or a 3.0 plus.. Try for a Malay, I know it is debateable if that actually matters but all the Malay's I've had are much better clockers than the Costa's... I know you said it was out of stock, but just keep trying a new processor every 9 days or so till you get one you like.. :p:

Give a new board a shot, I doubt it will make much, if any difference, but wth, buying it from Fry's it won't cost to try it..:p:

CSOFT

12-03-2003, 02:20 PM

Trust me, if I wans't looking for a CPU for a prometia I would get a 2.4C (or two) but I'm just looking for 3.5-3.6 on watercooling hooking to hit 3.7-3.8 or higher under a MachI.

I've heard malay's are better, but the last one was a malay.

I'm going to keep the MSI and only take it back if the P4C800 proves the MSI to be a dud. If I dont get a better OC why would I want to keep the board that cost more, is brown, and dont have disco lights comming of the northbrigde fan.

skate2snow

12-03-2003, 02:32 PM

its not the apperance is the performance and the perfomance is incredible

Karnivore

12-03-2003, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by skate2snow
its not the apperance is the performance and the perfomance is incredible

Strange, my Asus is on average roughly 5% faster then my 865 neo 2, won't even notice it unless your looking at benchmark numbers, hardly incredible.... but if benching is your game, then the 5% is pretty fair...

skate2snow

12-03-2003, 03:39 PM

is it an deluxe???

CSOFT

12-03-2003, 08:33 PM

ok I got a P4C800-D Rev2, I gatta figure out what I want to do for cooling, when I cut the hose I wasnt planing on the CPU socket being sideways....

http://s88708673.onlinehome.us/pics/my_comp_pics/new2/IMAG007.jpg

skate2snow

12-04-2003, 04:25 AM

its just an idea, but you could replace the radiator and the reservoire by an kind of very powerfull refrigirator and put some alcool and some anti-freeze in the water. thats like i whant to do when im saying i gonna have an chiller.

kromosto

12-04-2003, 04:35 AM

take a costa rica 2.6c they are really good

CSOFT

12-04-2003, 08:59 AM

I was going to hook my chiller up to test it, but I dont have enough hose I dont think, I got smaller hose, but the hose clamps I got are too big to fit around it.

I got the board hooked up and just stuck a GF2 MX in to test it. It gets better performance then the MSI but It hasn't clocked any higher yet.