How good do single stagers get?

[One_Hertz]

The evap temp of my current unit is at about -35C (CPU temp -19) when gaming on a 4.6ghz qx9650 @ 1.51 volts. Idle is around -62C (CPU temp -52) so it is a big drop. Is it possible to turn that -35 to a -45 or colder with some $ or would I need a completely new dual stager for that? Noise is of no concern as my computer is on one side of the wall and my monitor and mouse is on another :)

I want to run 5ghz @ 1.63volts for 24/7 but this stresses my unit too much and temps get crappy.

[MeltedDuron]

More info of what the unit currently is would help. Condenser, compressor, gases, builder.

[One_Hertz]

Ooops this is what I currently have:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213187

[Postal Dude]

The big delta with temps could mean its slightly under charged, has poor cpu contact, or just an evap that isnt upto holding that load

[SexyMF]

The big delta with temps could mean its slightly under charged, has poor cpu contact, or just an evap that isnt upto holding that load

Postal Dude's covered it all. Reseat the evap first, then if that doesn't help source some more gas.

[MeltedDuron]

I just saw the temps you got, sounds undercharged as the temps say a vacume when running

[One_Hertz]

How much colder can it get with that kind of a high load though?

[ruffus]

ok guys i am the builder i yes he could maybe get some better temps out of it with a gas change. as i am sure it is not under charged as it has a superheat of around 12c if i remember right. now i think if we cut down the cap tube and re-charged it with r507 instead of the r22a that is in it we could see some better temps but with a higher discharge temp and perssures. now i will look to see if i have any pics of the system left on my computer so i can post them. and it has a danfoss NF11fx for a compressor and it has a home made 8 row condensor in it and the pipe size in it is 3/8

[SexyMF]

At this point I have to ask why do you want lower temps? Do you think you are hitting an overclocking barrier because of the core temperature? Because if you are just seeking bling, then it's a waste of time - and a risk of messing up what appears to be a decent single stage unit.

[gosmeyer]

At this point I have to ask why do you want lower temps? Do you think you are hitting an overclocking barrier because of the core temperature? Because if you are just seeking bling, then it's a waste of time - and a risk of messing up what appears to be a decent single stage unit.

^ +1 ^

[One_Hertz]

At this point I have to ask why do you want lower temps? Do you think you are hitting an overclocking barrier because of the core temperature? Because if you are just seeking bling, then it's a waste of time - and a risk of messing up what appears to be a decent single stage unit.

As I stated in my OP my main issue is "I want to run 5ghz @ 1.63volts for 24/7 but this stresses my unit too much and temps get crappy." As in, -20C or even warmer. This is not too good, so i want an upgrade. Every 10C is roughly 80mhz for my chip in this temp range. It currently isn't stable enough @ 5ghz and I really want max mhz since almost everything in my rig is CPU bottlenecked.

[sdumper]

ok guys i am the builder i yes he could maybe get some better temps out of it with a gas change. as i am sure it is not under charged as it has a superheat of around 12c if i remember right. now i think if we cut down the cap tube and re-charged it with r507 instead of the r22a that is in it we could see some better temps but with a higher discharge temp and perssures. now i will look to see if i have any pics of the system left on my computer so i can post them. and it has a danfoss NF11fx for a compressor and it has a home made 8 row condensor in it and the pipe size in it is 3/8

I was just about to post that the build in question was one of yours and is a very sweet build.

Also note a new unit is a complete an utter waste of money. If you want to recharge with r507 you might get closer to -40c under load but seriously why do you care. 5ghz wont game any better than 4ghz and if your benching most runs dont go long enough to make a difference. If you want to upgrade for benching then get a cascade.

[[XC] gomeler]

As I stated in my OP my main issue is "I want to run 5ghz @ 1.63volts for 24/7 but this stresses my unit too much and temps get crappy." As in, -20C or even warmer. This is not too good, so i want an upgrade. Every 10C is roughly 80mhz for my chip in this temp range. It currently isn't stable enough @ 5ghz and I really want max mhz since almost everything in my rig is CPU bottlenecked.

Then I'd say you are going to need a better QX9650 and a bigger compressor. Are you frequency bottlenecked or core bottlenecked? If it is frequency bottlenecked then you can either fuss with building a second, larger single-stage or you can "upgrade" to an E8600 and run it at 5.2GHz to 5.5GHz. If you are core limited then it might be time to jump on the Core i7 train with a 920 at 4.2GHz or so on air.

[lesstutrey]

Yeah, as gomeler said either a new unit or a new chip. The i7's blow the qx9650 out the water sad to say. A 5ghz run on a qx9650 gets you into a 9s spi 1m range, depending on how well you can tweak the bench, 5ghz on a i7 and you're in the 7 second range. Also the i7s seem to OC on less voltage. Can't compare i7 to Yorkfield clock for clock as my i7 rig is still a dream in progress, probably being built within a week or two though :)

[Buckeye]

I was just about to post that the build in question was one of yours and is a very sweet build.

Also note a new unit is a complete an utter waste of money. If you want to recharge with r507 you might get closer to -40c under load but seriously why do you care. 5ghz wont game any better than 4ghz and if your benching most runs dont go long enough to make a difference. If you want to upgrade for benching then get a cascade.

I have to agree with SDumper here. Going for a little bit colder and a few mhz faster will really make no dif for a gaming rig.

SS Phase units are like a gateway drug, when you finally get one up and running the bug hits you and allways want to get colder and colder LOL. Next thing you know you will be looking at LN2 setups because Cascades are cool, but LN2 is cooler HAHA :)

Then you really won't be happy until you can do any kind of cooling :rofl:

[ruffus]

well guys i have offered to see what i can do and if i can not get it any better that there would be no charge he would just have to pay for the shipping. so does anyone have any ideas on what i could do. like i know that it has a small evap on it so i have told him changing the evap might hold a better load as well as shorting the cap tube and re-chargeing with r507 instead of the r22a now it has a real big condensor so i add in some pics of the system so u guys can see what it looks like

[gosmeyer]

What were the hi and low pressures @ load and no load? Remember any of the superheat or subcooling numbers?

[ruffus]

ya i really don't remember what the pressures were but i do beleave it had a superheat of 12c but not 100% sure on this but will know more once the system gets here

[[XC] gomeler]

Get yourself a notebook and record all the numbers/components/prices of all your builds. Makes planning future builds immensely easier when you can sort of pick and choose from a catalog of known working designs :)

[One_Hertz]

Looking forward! Shipping it out on Monday and Ruffus is close by so he will have it Tuesday or Wednesday.

[ruffus]

@gosmeyer that is a really good idea i do have all the parts and stuff like that in a book but just never did write down pressures and stuff like that but i guess i should start doing so
so i ask u guys what is the best evap on the market right now as i think by changeing out the evap will help as well as it is one that was not made to hold 300 watts
all the evaps that i have used that are this small i could only get them to hold around 200 to 250 watts just as it is kinda small but was made very well but just not made for this type of heat load
and if i was to go as far as changeing out the compressor what would do better then a nf11fx that would still fit in the case and not be much louder then the nf11fx

[[XC] gomeler]

@gosmeyer that is a really good idea i do have all the parts and stuff like that in a book but just never did write down pressures and stuff like that but i guess i should start doing so
so i ask u guys what is the best evap on the market right now as i think by changeing out the evap will help as well as it is one that was not made to hold 300 watts
all the evaps that i have used that are this small i could only get them to hold around 200 to 250 watts just as it is kinda small but was made very well but just not made for this type of heat load
and if i was to go as far as changeing out the compressor what would do better then a nf11fx that would still fit in the case and not be much louder then the nf11fx

You are going to have to deal with an increase in noise if you go to a larger compressor. The NF series from Danfos is so quiet it spoils people.. maybe something like an SC18CLX.2(cheap and available on ebay) but then you are talking major power consumption, noise, and heat rejection. Rotary is out if you are trying to minimize noise unless you can secure it to the chassis and remove all vibration. Problem is neither of these solutions will fit in that chassis.

If you really want to proceed with this I think it is time to start looking at a larger case..

[One_Hertz]

up to 60db for the whole unit is perfectly fine.

[gosmeyer]

so i ask u guys what is the best evap on the market right now as i think by changeing out the evap will help as well as it is one that was not made to hold 300 watts

:shrug: IMO not many SS evaps will roll with the 300ish watts at the moment. I've been out of the game for awhile so as I said, just my 2 cents.

You could always make one :up:

[[XC] gomeler]

Yup, time to have someone go back to the drawing board and develop a new evap and mass produce them. The Chilly1 spiral I think has run its course.

I would implore that you don't tear apart a perfectly working single-stage in an attempt to modify it for colder temperatures and a greater load. Better off selling it and building a new case so you aren't space constrained for compressor/condenser components. Just a thought.. I know I hate tearing apart my own work for incremental improvements.

[clear cmos]

maybe LN2 Pot design give better performance (in hold load) for evap

[sdumper]

never mind not important

never mind

[One_Hertz]

gomeler;4031770']Better off selling it and building a new case so you aren't space constrained for compressor/condenser components. Just a thought.. I know I hate tearing apart my own work for incremental improvements.

Might be a good idea...

[Moc]

How good do single stagers get?
http://www.extremecooling.de/forum/attachments/singlestage/6683d1252347192-mocs-ss-sammelthread-rotary-ss-089-large-.jpg
-47°C @ 320W :) ... evap is way to small for such a unit.

[fatguy1992]

Nice, whats the specs of that unit?

[[XC] gomeler]

Nice, whats the specs of that unit?

Just look at the size of the accumulator in that picture.. that is a massive rotary :D

[sdumper]

gomeler;4032989']Just look at the size of the accumulator in that picture.. that is a massive rotary :D

Thinking the same thing :)

[clear cmos]

looks like 2hp rotary :D

[Stelios]

I have an SS here i'm building for a friend . It's powered by a 30cc rotary compressor (That's a 16000btu R407). This unit can hold -45C with 270W heat load (cartridge) with R410a . The suction line temp is -52C measured 1cm after the evaporator) . Idle temp is around -60C .

[lesstutrey]

you'd have to ask ron to get more details but my unit holds what i estimate to be well over 300w at -34 or colder (5.2ghz+1.7v qx9650, what 420w tdp?) but this is just a SC18CLX r507a unit, nothing too fancy, and that wattage is not actually what is being dumped onto it.. just TDP of CPU.

[FUGGER]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151730

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155801

I have many threads with my Vapo results, lots of different CPU's.

The Vapo is a champ, still runs like new.

[piotres]

9700 BTU, LG 164PAB rotary plus R507

-58C - unloaded

-47C@260W dummyload