A few newb questions about phase building!

[Snowman89]

Ive done some reading now on phase for several reasons. I think its really interesting and i would also (someday) like to build one myself. So i will start with some questions now and i will probably fill it ut as time goes and i learn more.

1. My main question is now. If i use cap tube length for we say 200w load. I brazz everything up and vaccum pulls it and puts we say r404 into it. Then i notices that when the cpu idles all liquid aint vaporizing in the evap. How do you correct this afterwards? How do you get the "perfect" blend so its fully vaporized after the evap at idle but still it can handle a decent load? There must be a way to calculate it, how?

2. Ive understood that a TXV would be the ideal for a SS but how much does it cost? Ofc its not the same but is it between 10-50dollars or 100-500?

3. How do i know if a compressor is good enough? Ive read the read about compressor conversions ( http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98771 ). There it says "The rating for motor power and power with respect to heat moved by the system are very different things." So basicly what does it mean?

4. How do you achive vaccum in the process? Where would the vacum be, after the cap tube or after the evap? (Looking in this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67232&d=1195069973)

Sorry if these are very dumb questions but im a real beginner at this subject but im willing to learn :) and its getting very late here to :P

This is kinda wrong forum but how much heat does a Phenom II 955 produce at around 5ghz?

[trance565]

this is based off of what i remember from a couple years ago, when i was this "| |" close to finishing my own unit.

i think alot of ppl go with 1/4-1/2 hp compressors, with something like an i7, im sure a 1/2hp compressor would be recomended, it's been a while since i looked into this after getting nearly done with my unit only to have a failure of getting a couple key parts.
i had a 1/4 hp tecumseh for my pd805 originally

you pull a vacuum to get all the oxygen out, and then fill the system with a gas such as nitrogen, and you do this 3-4 times before putting in the refrigerant. once charged, the low side should be around 0-10psi, last i remembered.
also, you pull the vacuum from the shrader valves, one on the compressor, one on the filter dryer usually. the high pressure side would be the compressor->condesner->f/d->captube->evap. low side would be from evap->compressor.

i've never really done heat production calculations, but i would think you should shoot for something around 200-220 watts.

and im also pretty sure you need a license for r404

hope that helps

[apt403]

Under The Ice has a Danfoss TEV for $75:

http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=150

[Snowman89]

this is based off of what i remember from a couple years ago, when i was this "| |" close to finishing my own unit.

i think alot of ppl go with 1/4-1/2 hp compressors, with something like an i7, im sure a 1/2hp compressor would be recomended, it's been a while since i looked into this after getting nearly done with my unit only to have a failure of getting a couple key parts.
i had a 1/4 hp tecumseh for my pd805 originally

you pull a vacuum to get all the oxygen out, and then fill the system with a gas such as nitrogen, and you do this 3-4 times before putting in the refrigerant. once charged, the low side should be around 0-10psi, last i remembered.
also, you pull the vacuum from the shrader valves, one on the compressor, one on the filter dryer usually. the high pressure side would be the compressor->condesner->f/d->captube->evap. low side would be from evap->compressor.

i've never really done heat production calculations, but i would think you should shoot for something around 200-220 watts.

and im also pretty sure you need a license for r404

hope that helps

Okey thanks. But can you sort out the captube length for me that i wrote about in the first post?

Also the vaccum i was talking about should be when the compressor is working thats what got me a bit confused.. For a couple of years ago i followed a guy who worked as a AC-repair/installation guy and he will have the honor to do the vaccum, nitrogen, r404 filling since i dont have the things for it.

What would be a realistic temperature to aim for with 200-250w of load?

[[XC] gomeler]

Depends on the compressor. With i7 you really can run well around -20 celsius. Grab one of the 1/2 hp rotaries on eBay. Cheap and powerful, good for an initial build.

[Snowman89]

gomeler;3943655']Depends on the compressor. With i7 you really can run well around -20 celsius. Grab one of the 1/2 hp rotaries on eBay. Cheap and powerful, good for an initial build.

Okey thx. Maybe you can answer my biggest question?

1.My main question is now. If i use cap tube length for we say 200w load. I brazz everything up and vaccum pulls it and puts we say r404 into it. Then i notices that when the cpu idles all liquid aint vaporizing in the evap. How do you correct this afterwards? How do you get the "perfect" blend so its fully vaporized after the evap at idle but still it can handle a decent load? There must be a way to calculate it, how?

2. Correct me if im wrong but could i basicly ignore all about pressures and start the compressor with very low level of refrigerant in it and then load up the evap with we say 200w load and then start filling the system with r404 again untill i find the perfect amount of r404. Or how do you do it ? :P

Could you please link a unit from ebay.. cant seem to find one :/

[[XC] gomeler]

I'm currently driving 80mph down I81 so no links atm. For cap sizing download Danfoss' DanCap to get a general idea for the length. Grab the spec sheet for whatever compressor you use and match projected heatlosd to the spec evap temp and it will do the computation.

You more or less described crude tuning. Add gas till it holds the load that the cap is cut for. Foe the jump between idle and load you can use a suction accumulator or suction line heat exchanger to keep from liquid slugging the compressor at idle.

[Snowman89]

gomeler;3943694']I'm currently driving 80mph down I81 so no links atm. For cap sizing download Danfoss' DanCap to get a general idea for the length. Grab the spec sheet for whatever compressor you use and match projected heatlosd to the spec evap temp and it will do the computation.

You more or less described crude tuning. Add gas till it holds the load that the cap is cut for. Foe the jump between idle and load you can use a suction accumulator or suction line heat exchanger to keep from liquid slugging the compressor at idle.

Ah lol okey :D Well do it when you got time :P

Well im trying to do some calculating now but it seems like i forgot the most of it:rofl: What pressures is to expect on the high/low side?



edit again:O I moving forward slowly! (atleast thats what i think.. -.-) If i charge the unit with 400g R404 and have a comp that can deliver 400g/minute (That would be the same as saying it has a cooling capacity of 240w at -40 but how do i know that? :P ) then all the liquid would have been transformed into vapor when it passed the evap. Am i right about that? How about the pressures now, what pressures would i have on the low/high side?

And then to have a evap temp of -40 im gonna need the low side to have a pressure of 4.5 PSIG. What temperature would i have on the returning gas and what pressure?


edit:
As stated above about the 400g load. I could load it with 100g r404 and have a comp that could deliver 400g/minute and it could still hold 240w but then the amount of load determine the pressure inside the system so i wouldnt get a low temp on the 240w load. Is that right?

If that is right, you would like to have as low pressure as possble in the system so as low charge as possible then i guess.

Another edit: if i wan 240w load its the same as a 1/3hp compressor.

All of my above statements are what ive came up to, much/all of it may be wrong so please correct me if you see that ive done something wrong.

[trance565]

when i was doing my 805, i was shooting fort a 200-220w heatload, i was going to use 8-10ft of .031 cap tube i believe

when initially filling the system, i believe the lowside should be around 0-10psi, afterthat, you start the fine tuning for the load your expecting.

[Snowman89]

when i was doing my 805, i was shooting fort a 200-220w heatload, i was going to use 8-10ft of .031 cap tube i believe

Link please :)

Can anyone link a rotary compressor? Ive searched ebay but couldnt find anyone so im way off :S

[trance565]

lol i dont have any links, this was 2 years ago. im just starting to think about trying to get my build going again.

the captube length was what a few people recommended for me.

[Snowman89]

lol i dont have any links, this was 2 years ago. im just starting to think about trying to get my build going again.

Ah okey :P

Another question is it possible to oversize the condersor unit? How do i know how big i need? :P

[trance565]

http://cgi.ebay.com/TECUMSEH-3-4hp-COMPRESSOR-HGA9468ZXA-with-electrics_W0QQitemZ380114294746QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item588093d7da&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

this would be a good compressor for sure, but i dunno if your on 115, or 220 being in sweden. if you need a 220v look for the zxd instead of zxa

condensor, the one i have is about 6inx7inx2.5in

[Snowman89]

http://cgi.ebay.com/TECUMSEH-3-4hp-COMPRESSOR-HGA9468ZXA-with-electrics_W0QQitemZ380114294746QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item588093d7da&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

this would be a good compressor for sure, but i dunno if your on 115, or 220 being in sweden. if you need a 220v look for the zxd instead of zxa

condensor, the one i have is about 6inx7inx2.5in

I need 220v her in sweden:)

What temperatures could i expect with that comp with 200w load?

Is R404 the best refrigerant to use or what should i use?

The build would be comp->conden-filter-cap tube-evap-suction accumulator->comp . Does that seem right?

About the condensor, what happends if i pick a "to big" condenser unit? How big would be sufficent?

Can anyone link to a place in europe that sells pretty cheap compressors? There are tons of them in USA but none over here..

[trance565]

ebay.co.uk?

condensor, im not sure if you can go too big, for refrigerant, unless you have an hvac license, im pretty sure you are restricted to r134a, or propane, the latter of which can be a bad idea.

your loop sounds right, im not sure if an accumulator will be needed, i didnt have on planned on my build. for temps, i would expect negatives.... :)
oh, if you get the compressor i linked in the 220v version, it's got the accumulator built in.

[Snowman89]

ebay.co.uk?

condensor, im not sure if you can go too big, for refrigerant, unless you have an hvac license, im pretty sure you are restricted to r134a, or propane, the latter of which can be a bad idea.

your loop sounds right, im not sure if an accumulator will be needed, i didnt have on planned on my build. for temps, i would expect negatives.... :)
oh, if you get the compressor i linked in the 220v version, it's got the accumulator built in.

Well ive looked there but havent found any :down:

Well im not going to do the loading myself since i dont have a hvac license. A real hvac engineer will do it for me :)

Okey, well see what parts i get :)

[Postal Dude]

With your condensor mate. You cant go too big. But its best not to go massive. Get one that can handle whatever you can throw at it with a little bit of head room. If you go really massive, your just creating more internal area for refrigerant. So you will need more gas to get it up to pressure.

404 is pretty good, but 507 is better. You'd better get a refrigeration license if you wanna buy them tho

[Snowman89]

With your condensor mate. You cant go too big. But its best not to go massive. Get one that can handle whatever you can throw at it with a little bit of head room. If you go really massive, your just creating more internal area for refrigerant. So you will need more gas to get it up to pressure.

404 is pretty good, but 507 is better. You'd better get a refrigeration license if you wanna buy them tho

Yeah okey.

Well about the refrigerant. The company that the hvac-engieer works for has R404 and he will get it for me. So your saying i must have a license for owning a SS, thats the same as saying you need a license for owning a fridge?

Do you have ideas about where in Europe i can get a decent compressor unit for a decent price?

[Postal Dude]

Not for owning the SS. But so long as you just use the SS, not try to recover gas, charge or tune the system.

For a half decent compressor, try to buy a used air con unit. i bought 3 for less than £100 all with pretty good rotaries in them.

[Snowman89]

Not for owning the SS. But so long as you just use the SS, not try to recover gas, charge or tune the system.

For a half decent compressor, try to buy a used air con unit. i bought 3 for less than £100 all with pretty good rotaries in them.

Well he will tune it with me as supervisor :p: Well i will do the brazing and so but he will do the vaccum and pressure testing and the loading since i dont have the stuff to do it or the knowledge :)

Did you use the condensors that was inside the air con units to?

[Postal Dude]

AC condensors are fairly inefficient in design, but they work. I have seen the evaporator from ac units make quite good condensors. If you use the fan included in the AC unit, you have pretty much everything you need in one, except for your line set

[Snowman89]

AC condensors are fairly inefficient in design, but they work. I have seen the evaporator from ac units make quite good condensors. If you use the fan included in the AC unit, you have pretty much everything you need in one, except for your line set

Okey thanks for the help. Will look around some but its bad that even the smallest ac-units costs a fortune over here in sweden.... The smallest portabel USED unit costs around 100euro on our "ebay"

[Postal Dude]

Search for local ish ones that are pick up only. delivery will murder you, if you get a local pick up only one, there will be alot less ppl willing to buy. I got one unit for £4!!! Just because thats what the opening bid was

[MeltedDuron]

Drop me a PM with a list of what ya after. I'll go on the hunt through ebay for you.

Ebay UK is good sometimes, latley has been amazing

Ebay DE has everything but i can't read a word of it sadly (almost as good as the USA)