Chiller/ac unit

[Gary Lloyd]

Well... we can try the cap tube pinch strategy, but keep in mind that it is difficult to unpinch the tube. I would want to use something that gives us a precision pinch. Maybe something like a small vise, so that we can pinch it very gradually.

The condenser is big enough to take the resulting liquid backing up into it (from the overcharge), so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Conflict]

I actually have a small vise and it is sitting next to the system in the basement for tommorrow!


From pinching it what kinda gain can be expected?


And can someone please explain to me exactly how that works? I understand it creates some sort of backup..but i don't understand how that can create "more" evaporation or colder temps from the evaporation.

I think i am gonna use Jamal's idea of putting something in there to take alot of room up so i can use less fluid..less coolant shoudl equal colder temps shouldn;t it..i mean then the evap has less to cool and can get what is there cooler.

Any other ideas?

[Gary Lloyd]

What dont you believe about the new thermometer? Do you think it is lower or higher then that?


Looking back at your post, I see that you said -4F (-20C), not -4C. Okay, I'll buy that. :D

And I recommend that you calibrate your old thermometer to match the new one.

[Conflict]

lol....yea...-30F is my goal now i guess

[Gary Lloyd]

From pinching it what kinda gain can be expected?


I try to avoid making predictions, as there is a crack in my crystal ball.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I try to avoid making predictions, as there is a crack in my crystal ball.

lol...well instead of a prediction..is there an educated guess that can be made?

[Gary Lloyd]

While we are pinching the cap tube, we need to monitor the coolant temp and the suction line temp a few inches from the compressor.

[Gary Lloyd]

My SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) is -40C.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
While we are pinching the cap tube, we need to monitor the coolant temp and the suction line temp a few inches from the compressor.

Sorry for my noobness, but what kinda monitoring should i do..is there anything in specific i should watch for?

[Conflict]

And one more question before I call it a night and let all this knowledge sink in...how should i go about pinching it...a VERY tiny bit at a time..montiro and then move on? How do i know when enough is enough...id like to have a general outlook as to what to look for before i go to far?

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Conflict


I think i am gonna use Jamal's idea of putting something in there to take alot of room up so i can use less fluid..less coolant shoudl equal colder temps shouldn;t it..i mean then the evap has less to cool and can get what is there cooler.

Any other ideas? Less coolant wont get you colder ,It will get you cold faster.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by jamaljaco
Less coolant wont get you colder ,It will get you cold faster.

well...considering i already get to my maximum(coldest) temps in just a few hours i don't think that is an issue for me then

[jamaljaco]

Mine will pull down to its lowest in 40 min

[Conflict]

Originally posted by jamaljaco
Mine will pull down to its lowest in 40 min


well i guess i am making a guess...i also have 2 1/2 times asmuch fluid as you!

[Gary Lloyd]

And one more question before I call it a night and let all this knowledge sink in...how should i go about pinching it...a VERY tiny bit at a time..montiro and then move on? How do i know when enough is enough...id like to have a general outlook as to what to look for before i go to far?


I have never pinched a cap tube, but yes, I would pinch it a very tiny bit at a time, and then wait for about 15 minutes to view the results. The coolant must be at its lowest temp before we start. And several pinches are better than one big pinch. I want the suction line temp to be about 10C higher than the coolant temp, and I want the bottom of the compressor to be warm.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I have never pinched a cap tube, but yes, I would pinch it a very tiny bit at a time, and then wait for about 15 minutes to view the results. The coolant must be at its lowest temp before we start. And several pinches are better than one big pinch. I want the suction line temp to be about 10C higher than the coolant temp.

So measuring the temp of the piping a few inches from the compressor...when i see the temps are about 10C warmer then the coolant...that is when it will be optimal?


Sorry for all the basic questions..i am just a person of detail..want to do it one time and do it right!

[Gary Lloyd]

So measuring the temp of the piping a few inches from the compressor...when i see the temps are about 10C warmer then the coolant...that is when it will be optimal?


No, optimal is when we do it right. The best we are going to get with the pinch method, overcharge, and no gauges, would be ballpark. Keep in mind that each pinch takes time to take effect.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
No, optimal is when we do it right. The best we are going to get with the pinch method, overcharge, and no gauges, would be ballpark. Keep in mind that each pinch takes time to take effect.

OVercharge? Do you still really think the system is overfull of refrigerant?


And yea it isn;t looking like i will be able to get any guages until I get back from florida.

I am just way into making due with what i have...so i want to tweak it with what i can for now....but i am gonna turn the system on in the morning...take temps of the coolant and the suction line after the system has been running for a hour or so...and then slightly pinch it..let it run for another hour or so and i will report the difference here.

TOmmorrow night here in northern mn gonna be -25F so I am gonna be overclocking a Pentium 4 system. Maybe i will have a great day and be able to fully clock a AMD and Intel...lol

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
More importantly, the compressor isn't safe from floodback. I'm thinking your system has an accumulator in the suction line. That is the device that is saving your compressor. I don't recall seeing one on conflicts's system. Nope ,no accumulator, I do have a nifty series of humps in my suction line from all the bending, My compressor runs 108f system loaded after pulldown,with the ambient at 72f, its around 12f degrees warmer during pulldown in the same conditions.

[Conflict]

Also, I see it says in your profile you authored a book....


I am extremely interested in learning ALL about refrigeration. I am a seriously fast leanrer and i am always taking up a new interest and since playing with this over the last week I believe along with computers I have foudn somethign that really truly sparks a GREAT interest in me. If you could help me out and point me towards the best data or info to get started in learning the basics and semi advanced basics of refrigeration...i would greatly appreciate it

[Gary Lloyd]

The lower the evaporator temp, the less refrigerant is needed. Your A/C is charged for above freezing evap temp. Yes, it is overcharged, and will be more so when you are finished pinching it.

Another thing to keep in mind: A pinch is a weak spot, which can snap if it is knocked around. When we are done, we want to strap the pinched area to the suction line, so that it doesn't get moved around and snapped.

[Gary Lloyd]

Also, I see it says in your profile you authored a book....


Actually, I have authored 4 books. They are written in plain english where possible. I would recommend first going to:

http://refrigerationbasics.com

By the time you read through the samples, you will be ready for my book(s). I am retired and if I sell a few books I get to eat, so please hurry. I am fading fast. :D

[Gary Lloyd]

My compressor runs 108f system loaded after pulldown,with the ambient at 72f, its around 12f degrees warmer during pulldown in the same conditions.

The temperature in compressor heaven is 140-160F/60-70C, but 108F is well out of the danger zone. :D

What is the temp on the bottom of the compressor at lowest coolant temp, while unloaded? This is where flooding is most likely.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd


What is the temp on the bottom of the compressor at lowest coolant temp, while unloaded? This is where flooding is most likely. ok just checked the compressor bottom was 93f with an ambient of 73f. The rest of the compressor is around 2f cooler than the bottom.

[jamaljaco]

Hey Gary, is it true that when you get old there is little need for sleep?

[GeekGoddess]

hey Gary, always remember
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi :D ;)

[Gary Lloyd]

Hey Gary, is it true that when you get old there is little need for sleep?


As a lifelong insomniac, I can truthfully say that I have no idea. How much sleep I need, and how much sleep I get have always been entirely separate questions.

hey Gary, always remember
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi


I don't actually understand latin. The little tidbit in my sig is just something I picked up along the way. It makes me sound smarter than I actually am.

docendo discimus = Learn by teaching

[Conflict]

Well my cousin was over today and told me that I need to set the condensor up better so that it is getting more of the air from the fan, i need to get the evap to at least a 30 degree angle, and that i need to restrict flow a tad bit, I told him that you guys had already told me to pinch the lines a bit and he said that should work and that with a 4/5 HP compressor that -45C shouldn;t be out of the question

[GeekGoddess]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
As a lifelong insomniac, I can truthfully say that I have no idea. How much sleep I need, and how much sleep I get have always been entirely separate questions.



I don't actually understand latin. The little tidbit in my sig is just something I picked up along the way. It makes me sound smarter than I actually am.

docendo discimus = Learn by teaching

Gary,,,,my phrase is something that I'm sure you heard often from your mother.....

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi = Always Where Under Where (literal translation!) lol ;):D lol

[Gary Lloyd]

Well my cousin was over today and told me that I need to set the condensor up better so that it is getting more of the air from the fan, i need to get the evap to at least a 30 degree angle, and that i need to restrict flow a tad bit, I told him that you guys had already told me to pinch the lines a bit and he said that should work and that with a 4/5 HP compressor that -45C shouldn;t be out of the question


Works for me. :D

Gary,,,,my phrase is something that I'm sure you heard often from your mother.....

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi = Always Where Under Where (literal translation!) lol lol

Sage advice, which I have always ignored at every opportunity... LOL

[Conflict]

Well i have some stuff to do this afternoon and then i am going to get on the ball and provide MANY tempertures for you...lol

[Gary Lloyd]

Cool. :D

[GeekGoddess]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Sage advice, which I have always ignored at every opportunity... LOL

LOL,,,TMI.....;)

[jamaljaco]

Well Conflict, hows it going?

[Conflict]

i got way behind today and haven;t even had a chance to take any temps....gonna have to wait till tommorrow

[jamaljaco]

darn ,see ya then.

[Conflict]

yea bad day all around man! Blew up my Nvidia 5600 and my connetoc thingy for using one monitor keyboard and mouse on teo computers

[kokoro_kara]

Originally posted by GeekGoddess
hey Gary, always remember
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi :D ;)

LOL!!! If you don't mind me jumping in on the conversation!

I had a t-shirt made with that slogan just to P'off my latin teacher. She was older than dirt and had those thick cat like frames with a large jewlery chain running down and around her neck! Oh God was she hell!
Semper = always like semper fi being always faithful
Ubi = Where (as in the interrogative of Where is the beef)
Sub = under and in submarine literally meaning under water

Anyway, that is a first I have ever heard anyone else mention that phrase so I had to jump in. And, well.... you must be a geek then ;)

Taking one to know one :toast:

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by kokoro_kara
She was older than dirt and had those thick cat like frames with a large jewlery chain running down and around her neck! Oh God was she hell! This sounds like our Geekgoddess.

***Ducking*** ***Running***

[GeekGoddess]

HEY!!!! I resemble that remark!!!:slap: :slapass: :p:

[TheDude]

Hey Jamal....nice sig man...just noticed it!

[kokoro_kara]

Originally posted by GeekGoddess
HEY!!!! I resemble that remark!!!:slap: :slapass: :p:

LOL.... I have seen your pic.... not even close, but maybe in a thousand years ;) :p:

By the way, Great thread everyone. I am watching closely, my AC is on the Way!!!!

One question:

Are any of you going to use tec/peltiers. I notice, jamall mentioned it. I'm just really confused on if one would help at these temps.... I did just order a separate psu and 226 watt peltier.. guess I am wanting to go that route.??

Just curious,

K:toast:

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by TheDude
Hey Jamal....nice sig man...just noticed it! thanks Dude, it took me some work ,I'm not all that familur with photoshop, Geek G helped with the fonts, had a hell of a time making them readable and not overpowering.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by kokoro_kara
LOL.... I have seen your pic.... not even close, but maybe in a thousand years ;) :p:

By the way, Great thread everyone. I am watching closely, my AC is on the Way!!!!

One question:

Are any of you going to use tec/peltiers. I notice, jamall mentioned it. I'm just really confused on if one would help at these temps.... I did just order a separate psu and 226 watt peltier.. guess I am wanting to go that route.??

Just curious,

K:toast: I think a 226w pelt would kick some serious butt with a chiller, I dont know the math though so all I can really say is try it . I thought about this myself. what psu by the way?

[Ssilencer]

I have an old ac,r22, 5000btu unit. I was unable to bend the evap, so I (well, an AC technician friend) Cut the evap, resolder and recharge for only U$S20.
Now, the compressor runs too hot to touch it, and the line that return to the compressor isn`t frosting at all. I think I need some more refrigerant,What do you think Gary?
My pump is a Danner mag drive 7 , it runs really hot, so I put it out of the tank.
I saw someone got a mag5, and put it in the tank, do you think this will not stress the temps in the tank?

Sorry for my bad english, and thanks all of you guys, this thread is really theaching me a lot.

[kokoro_kara]

Originally posted by jamaljaco
I think a 226w pelt would kick some serious butt with a chiller, I dont know the math though so all I can really say is try it . I thought about this myself. what psu by the way?

Hell If I Know, I'm just a NOOOOOOB :p: :shrug: :ROTF: And I'm having a blost :D

Here a pic of it. I just got it off ebay with the Pelt... Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3458871761&category=3673&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1)

we'll see if I jumped too deep to fast... but I'm having fun! I also got a PC Cooling & Power 510 deluxe on the way :bounces:

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by kokoro_kara
Hell If I Know, I'm just a NOOOOOOB :p: :shrug: :ROTF: And I'm having a blost :D

Here a pic of it. I just got it off ebay with the Pelt... Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3458871761&category=3673&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1)

we'll see if I jumped too deep to fast... but I'm having fun! I also got a PC Cooling & Power 510 deluxe on the way :bounces: Right on man! Nice rig , got AC ? lol. thats the rig I had in mind.

[kokoro_kara]

Cool jamaljaco, or better yet Damn Cool
:D

Hey, a note to Gary: Thanks for helping out, your knowledge is much appreciated and really rare (for the most part) for computer geeks!!

Thx

[Gary Lloyd]

I have an old ac,r22, 5000btu unit. I was unable to bend the evap, so I (well, an AC technician friend) Cut the evap, resolder and recharge for only U$S20.
Now, the compressor runs too hot to touch it, and the line that return to the compressor isn`t frosting at all. I think I need some more refrigerant,What do you think Gary?


How cold does the coolant get? The suction line isn't going to frost at all until the coolant is below 0C, and shouldn't frost back to the compressor until the coolant is at its lowest temperature.

[Gary Lloyd]

I think a 226w pelt would kick some serious butt with a chiller, I dont know the math though so all I can really say is try it . I thought about this myself.

There has been a great deal of discussion about this. Pelts have a couple very serious drawbacks. As I understand it, the heat output on the hot side would be more than double the input, so this puts a very heavy load on the chiller.

Also, I am told that it will not work below -50C on its cold side. If this were not the case, I think we would see pelts under every direct die block, despite their inefficiency.

It would make more sense to use an aircooled pelt to replace the condenser on a direct die system, thus making it the high stage for a cascade system, but then the problem is surface area. The small surface area on the cold side makes heat exchange extremely difficult. Possibly this could be done with many small pelts covering a large surface area.

[kommando]

Well i don't see the point of pelts if your getting temps to about -20...

[afireinside]

It would make more sense to use an aircooled pelt to replace the condenser on a direct die system, thus making it the high stage for a cascade system, but then the problem is surface area. The small surface area on the cold side makes heat exchange extremely difficult. Possibly this could be done with many small pelts covering a large surface area.

Does that mean you could build a single stage system but charge it with a high pressue cascade low stage refrigerent and put the condenser in a chiller res?

[Gary Lloyd]

Yes, but you better make damned sure the coolant in the res is very cold before the low stage compressor starts, and if that coolant warms up for any reason, the low stage compressor better shut off. This takes safety controls. You might want to take a look at DaBit's cascade. He has it covered every which way.

Also, there better be enough internal volume to hold down the static pressure.

If the pressure builds up too high: Best case scenario, the valves break inside your compressor. Worst case scenario, you find parts of your computer imbedded in the walls of your room, hopefully not soaked in blood.

[afireinside]

:lol: Could a cascade 5 feet away from me literaly blow me into bits?

I know its probley not the greatest idea but I was just curious. I wouldent be stupid enough to do it :p:

[Gary Lloyd]

Okay... I may be stretching it a little. Here is what I have actually seen: Compressor electrical terminal missing, little round hole through a block wall, with daylight peeking through. It sure looked like a bullet hole to me. I would not have wanted to be standing right there when it happened.

Can it actually explode? I have heard stories, but none that I could verify from personal experience. All of the cascade systems I have worked on had safety devices.

[kommando]

Well if you have every safety method in a cascade then it ain't gonna expload unless you do something really stupid.

[afireinside]

Originally posted by kommando
Well if you have every safety method in a cascade then it ain't gonna expload unless you do something really stupid.

I'd end up doing just that :stick:

[chilly1]

If you include enough internal volume in your cascade so that you keep the static charge at 250 lbs or less and have a highside mecanical relief device you will never have a problem. If it does not have enough gas add internal volume as you add gas. If the volume is added on th esuctionside the gas when off will fill the expansion tank and will be used when the system is running..

[kokoro_kara]

How about an update on how all these water chillers are working???

:D

Like...

What temps are you getting?

How often and how long are you running the chiller?

Has there been any unseen snags that have held you up?

How quiet are they and are there any methods of decreasing the noise?

What kind of mixtures for fluids are working the best?

And all the other questions answered that will help me write this book!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[afireinside]

What temps are you getting? -19C liquid -8C CPU idle at stock

How often and how long are you running the chiller? ran it all day before my mobo died

Has there been any unseen snags that have held you up? mobo died and 2 blocks leaked because of loose barbs before I got running :\

How quiet are they and are there any methods of decreasing the noise? there loud and I dont know how to quiet them

What kind of mixtures for fluids are working the best? I used windshield wiper fluid for mine but when I get my own built I'll use a 50/50 water/meth mixture.

[kokoro_kara]

Originally posted by afireinside
What temps are you getting? -19C liquid -8C CPU idle at stock

How often and how long are you running the chiller? ran it all day before my mobo died

Has there been any unseen snags that have held you up? mobo died and 2 blocks leaked because of loose barbs before I got running :\

How quiet are they and are there any methods of decreasing the noise? there loud and I dont know how to quiet them

What kind of mixtures for fluids are working the best? I used windshield wiper fluid for mine but when I get my own built I'll use a 50/50 water/meth mixture.

Too bad about the Board :(

Was their a reason behind the barbs leaking??? Just curious, if I should be concerned. One block is the danger den for the gpu with brass and the other is D'tek with plastic barbs for the cpu (this one I'm concerned about running chilled water).

[afireinside]

Get metal barbs for it.
Well I guess they didnt come all to tight and putting the tubes and insulation loosened them... I put alot of tethlon tape on them and tightened them with a pair of pliers :D

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by afireinside
What temps are you getting? -19C liquid -8C CPU idle at stock

How often and how long are you running the chiller? ran it all day before my mobo died

Has there been any unseen snags that have held you up? mobo died and 2 blocks leaked because of loose barbs before I got running :\

How quiet are they and are there any methods of decreasing the noise? there loud and I dont know how to quiet them

What kind of mixtures for fluids are working the best? I used windshield wiper fluid for mine but when I get my own built I'll use a 50/50 water/meth mixture.

Those are quite nice temps indeed, shame it busted before you got to see how hot it would go under load.

I've got some car antifreeze here that goes down to -60C but it seems far too viscous to use and meanders pityfully along the tubing. Is there a set minimum speed for liquid flow through a block for efficient cooling ? Also, I would imagine this liquid does not abosrb heat as well as normal water so is less efficient.

Could someone tell me the normal operating temperature of a home freezer , is it -18C ? I am thinking of using an entire freezer as the chiller, rather than dismantling an air con unit. I imagine this will be less cold than a chiller, but more convenient spacewise than air con and cooler box
..and easier as well.

Regards

Andy

[Russell_hq]

Household freezers are set to operate at -18ºC, but I dont know if they have the capacity to run a chiller. As they are so well insulated the heat load on them is quite small so they may only be rated for 150-200Watts, I think this may not be enough for your water chiller. I might be wrong, the worst that can happen is your fluid wont be as cold.

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by Russell_hq
Household freezers are set to operate at -18ºC, but I dont know if they have the capacity to run a chiller. As they are so well insulated the heat load on them is quite small so they may only be rated for 150-200Watts, I think this may not be enough for your water chiller. I might be wrong, the worst that can happen is your fluid wont be as cold.

That's my thoughts as well, though the trade off is it is a simple first step into refrigeration, I can't imagine anything much simpler.

I will still be able to use it for quick cooling of beer as well of course before the beer moves to my fridge.

Regards

Andy

[afireinside]

Meh there ok. Probley gona give it another go today. Than start building my -30C chiller :D

[Gary Lloyd]

Well i have some stuff to do this afternoon and then i am going to get on the ball and provide MANY tempertures for you...lol


Still waiting for many temps. :D

Pinching the cap tube, if done right, has a great deal of potential. It is a way of achieving much lower temps without breaking into the system.

Its going to be tricky, requiring patience. We need to walk someone through it.

[afireinside]

Lower temps without buying anything? Sign me up :D

[zakelwe]

My freezer turned up yesterday and is somewhat bigger than Ithought, not sure if it will fit in the shed very well once my other stuff is in there. Anyhow it's a very cheap freezer and so has very cheap parts but it does get cold ! :) It uses R600a which I think is butane, I assume this is one of the cheaper R gases.

It actually works quite well, at 3 out of 5 on the scale i was at -19C and on fast freeze option the compressor runs all the time ( according to the manual ?! ) and it went down to -23.8C.

Now I have to dremel out some tunnels in the lid for the tubes and purchase the interior reservoir container ( something high tech like a plastic bucket.)

With this seemingly low cooling capacity system I'm going to have to take particular care stopping excess environmental warming on my tubes and blocks, even worse, I have gpu and cpu blocks in series...

Regards

Andy

[Conflict]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Still waiting for many temps. :D

Pinching the cap tube, if done right, has a great deal of potential. It is a way of achieving much lower temps without breaking into the system.

Its going to be tricky, requiring patience. We need to walk someone through it.

I actually ended up breaking a line when i was moving everything....ive been to angry to post..lol....but i talked to chilly1 and i am gonna turn this into a direct die when i return from florida...so ill be back here in two months..you guys have a good one!

[zakelwe]

The new freezer arrives.

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/tempFeb2.jpg

I used the polystyrene foam that it was packed in to raise the lid so I could put channels in for the tubing ( see front left, also front right but hard to see. Foam is tapered front to back.

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/tempFeb4.jpg

I know I am doing a good job as there is plenty of Duct tape ;)

Located a nice container for the liquid that will be in the freezer

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/tempFeb3.jpg

It's a close fit as you can see below

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/tempFeb5.jpg

My easy peasy "Dummies Chiller " is coming on well, the only downside is no room for beer cooling at present :( however I do have a back up fridge.

Regards

Andy

[Russell_hq]

Put the beers in the chiller water, then give them a rinse when you take them out :D

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by Russell_hq
Put the beers in the chiller water, then give them a rinse when you take them out :D

1st beer

Wash off coolant and drink

2nd beer

wash off coolant and drink

3rd beer

wash off coolant and drink

4th beer

token effort at washing off coolant and drink

5th beer

drink

6th beer

start licking the can before drink

1st coolant

Put straw in coolant and suck the yummy cold blue liquid

2nd coolant

claim a break through for alcoholic science, go blind.

Regards

Thirsty

[kayl]

hey all with chillers
how long you have to run the chiller to get good temps
before you turn the pc.
iv seen lots of people running over night to get -20.
what are some expected temps to get for running a chiller running say 10mins before turning on, (starting off with room temp h20)

[Gary Lloyd]

how long you have to run the chiller to get good temps
before you turn the pc.


That's a much more difficult question than you might think. The fastest would be a chiller with a small reservoir, a big evaporator, a big condensing unit, and a TXV.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by kayl
hey all with chillers
how long you have to run the chiller to get good temps
before you turn the pc.
iv seen lots of people running over night to get -20.
what are some expected temps to get for running a chiller running say 10mins before turning on, (starting off with room temp h20) In about 20 minutes I can boot my xp 2500+ @ 2500 mhz with -17c coolant temps after about 20 more minutes I can get her up to max clocks @ -25c coolant temps.

[Gary Lloyd]

You wouldn't believe what a TXV would do for your chiller, Jamal. Like night and day.

[Conflict]

Originally posted by kayl
hey all with chillers
how long you have to run the chiller to get good temps
before you turn the pc.
iv seen lots of people running over night to get -20.
what are some expected temps to get for running a chiller running say 10mins before turning on, (starting off with room temp h20)


My chiller when running was chilling the liquid down to close to -20 within only an hour of use

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You wouldn't believe what a TXV would do for your chiller, Jamal. Like night and day. ok, I'll bite , describe "night and day".

[Gary Lloyd]

Well below -40C in a fraction of that time.

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Well below -40C in a fraction of that time. Geek Goddess and I have been busy building a shop in our basement so we will have a place to work on such things. I'm also looking to score another ac for her chiller and another for me so I don't have any downtime.
I will have two complete systems, one to use and play on while the other is being modded in the shop.

[jamaljaco]

Also, why TXV as opposed to cap tube?

[Gary Lloyd]

A cap tube meters a fixed flow of refrigerant, removing a fixed amount of heat. A TXV opens up and provides a heavy flow, removing a lot of heat when the heat load is high (during pulldown), then tapers off as the heat load drops.

Its like the transmission on a car. The cap tube is like having one gear. The TXV is like having an automatic transmission.

Your chiller is currently in low gear. This gives you fast pulldown, but temps are not as low as they could be.

We can make the cap tube more restrictive. This would be like high gear. Slower getting there, but eventually lower temps.

The TXV gives you both faster pulldown and lower temps.

[chilly1]

A TXV will respond to load and close as it gets colder maintaining superheat. This will allow it to get a lot colder than with a cap tube. Have you heard of the capacity / temperature trade off of a cap tube? Well with a cap tube you can have it colder but you lose capacity or you can have capacity and you lose temperature, With a TXV it will maintain a set superheat and a predesigned capacity through a sensing element(Bulb) connected to the discharge line of the evaporator.

[Russell_hq]

Why dont you install 2 cap tubes, with the second controlled by a valve. Open the valve on start-up to give you greater capacity and quicker cool down times, then close it off to get the lower temps. This way you can change the flowrate without using a TXV, something to think about.

[DaBit]

wouldn;t that be just as expensive as using a TEV?

[zakelwe]

Well after 20 odd pages of people bending tube and being far more adventurous than I could ever be, my own very easy to build and to be honest very heath robinson affair is taking form. Stop laughing at the back Gary, chilly1 and dabit.

You have to walk the walk not talk the talk ...... ;) OK, I am staggering :)

Now the disclaimers :D

1) My coolant sprung a leak tonight and covered the kitchen floor

2) I'm measuring all temps with a thermometer that is, although called Oregon Scientific, only as scientific as what NASA uses to measure the cooking food stuff in their cafe for lunchtime .

Right, here it is

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/phase4ant0.jpg

spot purpling mess under chair ..oops
spot 1 metre of plumbers insolating tube on 3 metres or tube :D


http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/phase4ant6.jpg

The spare block is looking frosty so me thinks room temp has been broken ..yippee

But not by much if the turkey thermometer is to be believed !


http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/phase4ant1.jpg

-20C into the block -2C out .. maybe I should buy a Fluke ? :D

Stick it on my 80w Peltier

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/phase4ant2.jpg

that's a bit better, have no idea what proper temps should be at this stage but obviously going in the right direction .

http://www.aocb77.dsl.pipex.com/phase4ant5.jpg

Double cascade will never beat that ;)



Regards

Andy

[Gary Lloyd]

Red Green, eat your heart out. :toast:

Thinking most will not get the reference here. Red Green is the star of one of my all time favorite comedy shows, "The Red Green Show". What he can do with duct tape is a wonder to behold. His motto is, "If you can't be handsome, at least be handy".

[afireinside]

Duct tape is amazing :O

[kommando]

Originally posted by afireinside
Duct tape is amazing :O

Yer its great it has many abilities including taping people up to poles and leaving them there.

[jamaljaco]

GeekGoddess turned me on to red green! Its one of her faves.

[jamaljaco]

Zakelwe , what you using for coolant? I'm also thinking a few bottles of vodka or higher prof alcohol might work better than the beer.

[jamaljaco]

Also thanks for the TXV explanations guys it helps.
However I do forsee some potential problems with reaching -40C. Pump and tubing concerns. I can't test gear for -40C till I get there ,lol.

[jamaljaco]

Cleaning out the paint shed at work the other day, I scored 10 gallons of straight ethyl alcohol denatured with Isopropyl, a lot less toxic than methyl alcohol, I also scored 5 gallons of pure methyl alcohol nasty stuff. Free is a very good price!

[kommando]

Damn i wonder what my idea will hit, hopefully -40 then the pump etc. problems.

[afireinside]

Tygon will be fine at -40C I'd think as long as you dont touch it...

Pump is another problem. -40C would probley crack my Eheim 1250 after a few weeks and slaughter the flow rate. Not to mention I'd need like a 75:25 meth/water mix :banana4: :flame:

[Gary Lloyd]

Well after 20 odd pages of people bending tube and being far more adventurous than I could ever be, my own very easy to build and to be honest very heath robinson affair is taking form. Stop laughing at the back Gary, chilly1 and dabit.


Nothing at all wrong with this strategy. There is a special place in my heart for ghetto systems. I love ingenuity.

Just a couple small drawbacks here. The compressor being small, it will take a while to get down to temp, and once the computer is running it will not be able to keep up, which means the temps will gradually rise. In the meantime, bypass the thermostat, and let's see how low it can go. :D

[aenigma]

In addition to what Gary has said, it looks as though your coolant is sitting in a reservoir and not touching the evaporator pipes.So your primary cooling is the cold air around the plastic container.

Way way back I used a chest freezer and it couldnt hold 5c it worked so poorly.It was alot bigger than yours so I didnt have the option to fill it all the way up(only filled the bottom) but later I ripped the sheet metal off the sides and then just tie straped some copper pipes to the evaporator pipes and hit -20c in no time.By then I wasnt using it but I was starting to get into refrigeration at that point and had to play with it!I think you should check and see if it is water tight and if it is, fill the whole thing with your coolant.

Congratulations on getting it working and good luck.

[zakelwe]

Well I have a hangover this morning :sick:

Thanks for the tips guys, yes it's certainly not optimised yet that's for sure. I run 3dmark benching so 1 to 2 hours is all I need out of it, however being in a plastic container not really touching the side meant the time to get down to -20C for the liquid was 24 hours, mainly down to surface cooling of the liquid I guess.


The freezer is not waterproof so it will have to be a container, metal ideally, I will keep my eyes peeled. Sitting under the tub is 15m of copper 10mm tubing so I might atach the plastic pipes to go through that to precool the hot returning liquid before it goes back into the lake. However this is 10mm and so will need another pump in series to keep speed up. I'm not an expert in thermodynamics but I have the logical thought that a lot of cold metal surface area in contact with the liquid will be the reverse effect of the hot copper on the block touching the cpu. I guess my think is right , no???

Nice idea to go by the evap pipes , I'd be a bit concerned I might break one.. I'm a bit hamfisted and maybe couldn't get duct tape on fast enough before all the gas escaped :)

Gary, how do I bypass the thermastat ? Can I have fun and use a hammer, or is it more technical than that ?

Regards

Andy

[Gary Lloyd]

There are two wires going to the thermostat. Put them together.

But unplug first. :D

[aenigma]

Originally posted by zakelwe
[B]The freezer is not waterproof so it will have to be a container, metal ideally, I will keep my eyes peeled.

Oh well that kind of throws a monkey wrench in the plan.Have you considered patching it?I am remembering someone who used a very large chest freezer and filled it completely full of antifreeze and it leaked as well, but he patched it.I dont think he had any problems after that.


Nice idea to go by the evap pipes , I'd be a bit concerned I might break one.. I'm a bit hamfisted and maybe couldn't get duct tape on fast enough before all the gas escaped :)

Just tie strapping the pipes to the evap pipes was a cheap solution that probably wouldnt have worked well with a heatload.I was just messing around with it, there are better solutions.And if the evap pipes are anything like the pipes in this freezer, they are made out of very strong metal(seemed like steel actually) and breaking it would be hard, and if you did thats all she wrote.The ideal solution would be getting the evaporator coils bent into your reservoir to cool the solution directly.But that may be harder than it sounds.

[zakelwe]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll definitely try both of those at a later date once I got it all up and running "standard" on an actual chip ( my AMD64 is out for the count at the moment ) . I don't want to mess it up by tweaking before I actually get some use out of it, that would be a shame ! Both ideas seem within my capabilities though, so that is good news.

I was thinking about my plastic container whilst at work and noticed my paper bin sitting there, which is metal. That would definitely be an improvement, but of course it is still round, really I need a square bin so two sides can touch the sides of the freezer. Rather than 24 hours I need to have 8 hours between start up and the liquid getting to coldest. This will let me bench morning and evening.

I have been looking at thermometers and to be honest Fluke etc are out of my price range for what I need it for , I saw this one

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/catalog/viewproductdetails.jsp;jsessionid=WUETYOSNDPKVFQFI AEXCFE4AVAAS2IV3?prodId=7105769


Any thoughts ? It goes down to -50C ( though at reduced accuracy ) which will be ample for my setup. I assume it is a thermister type , any disadvantages to that over a thermocouple ( thermocouples seem more expensive!)

Regards

Andy

[Peen]

Well I pretty much finished this post, and forgot I was stress testing this piece and of course it crashed. Well starting over. I want to make a chiller of course. First of all I have NOTHING at all to begin with (except the puter :p: ). Now for the water cooling system itself I was going to go all from one place, dangerden. I want to get RBX block chipset block and Maze 4 block for GPU . All this would be copper, not loctite. For a resorvoir, was thinking like something Jamal has, square and not to big. And of course Tygon tubing and lotsa insulation.
This is the AC http://www.maytagair.com/units/m3x05f2a.asp . Cost 98 bucks at homedepot. Would this do the trick? Thanks :toast:

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Peen
Well I pretty much finished this post, and forgot I was stress testing this piece and of course it crashed. Well starting over. I want to make a chiller of course. First of all I have NOTHING at all to begin with (except the puter :p: ). Now for the water cooling system itself I was going to go all from one place, dangerden. I want to get RBX block chipset block and Maze 4 block for GPU . All this would be copper, not loctite. For a resorvoir, was thinking like something Jamal has, square and not to big. And of course Tygon tubing and lotsa insulation.
This is the AC http://www.maytagair.com/units/m3x05f2a.asp . Cost 98 bucks at homedepot. Would this do the trick? Thanks :toast: it would probably do fine , the thing you can't tell is how the copper lines are running inside . They need to be long enough to get the evap into a res . Before buying one I would ask friend or family if they had an old unit laying around for cheap, or free. I have an old working unit you can have if you want it but its kinda a pig, its big, loud and draws 11 amps. if you can handle this its yours for haulin it off.:D

[Peen]

Originally posted by jamaljaco
it would probably do fine , the thing you can't tell is how the copper lines are running inside . They need to be long enough to get the evap into a res . Before buying one I would ask friend or family if they had an old unit laying around for cheap, or free. I have an old working unit you can have if you want it but its kinda a pig, its big, loud and draws 11 amps. if you can handle this its yours for haulin it off.:D thanks man, yhpm :D btw I still have to buy the other stuff, but gotta wait for my dirtbike to sell so i can get the money :toast: I think ill find another one first though thats somewhat compact. if not I know where I can find one :D

[Gary Lloyd]

You guys would be just amazed at what you can do with a tubing bender. :D

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You guys would be just amazed at what you can do with a tubing bender. :D Gary , glad you found us over here ! We all lost and :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:.:D I pinched my finger with a tube bender ,lol

[Gary Lloyd]

I pinched my finger with a tube bender ,lol

Don't do that. It hurts.

Ya gotta teach these kids everything... LOL

[Peen]

Originally posted by jamaljaco
it would probably do fine , the thing you can't tell is how the copper lines are running inside . They need to be long enough to get the evap into a res . Before buying one I would ask friend or family if they had an old unit laying around for cheap, or free. I have an old working unit you can have if you want it but its kinda a pig, its big, loud and draws 11 amps. if you can handle this its yours for haulin it off.:D Hey, I gotta couple questions about the AC unit. Whats the typical amperage it takes for one of these? you say that one you have takes 11 so im guessin a newer one would be alot lower? Loud doesnt really bother me, I sleep with 3 vantec tornados in my room lol :hehe: Is there a water block for the cpu , nb , gpu that anyone would recommend? and maybe also a pump thats recommended?
Thanks :toast:

[kommando]

ANY AUSSIE MEMBERS WANNA FIND ME AN AC UNIT!!!

[Peen]

Hey, I just saw a 24,000 BTU unit on ebay for 100 bucks and looks new, and its a window unit. Would that cool more then a 6000? or does that just do something else? I was thinking that it just cools down faster, but not really any colder?

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by Peen
Hey, I just saw a 24,000 BTU unit on ebay for 100 bucks and looks new, and its a window unit. Would that cool more then a 6000? or does that just do something else? I was thinking that it just cools down faster, but not really any colder?

I think you would be correct, it has greater capacity for cooling, but cools no colder.

Regards

Andy

[saratoga]

Originally posted by Peen
Hey, I just saw a 24,000 BTU unit on ebay for 100 bucks and looks new, and its a window unit. Would that cool more then a 6000? or does that just do something else? I was thinking that it just cools down faster, but not really any colder?

I got a 10k BTU unit free, and it came with a 1 HP compressor. I think thats really too big for a computer setup (750w running 24/7 in a closed room isn't too much fun for your room temp nor your electric bill). A 24k unit would probably have a 2+ hp unit (~1.5 kilowatts).

[vlad]

Originally posted by Peen
Hey, I just saw a 24,000 BTU unit on ebay for 100 bucks and looks new, and its a window unit. Would that cool more then a 6000? or does that just do something else? I was thinking that it just cools down faster, but not really any colder?

Being 24000btu its more then likely 220v, check the amp draw.
Basicly a 110v & 220v motor of the same hp the 220v will draw 1/2 the amps. It probablely would'nt get any colder but recovery
would be alot faster. :cool:

[Gary Lloyd]

A 6000 BTU compressor is 1/2 HP. That's more than enough for everything on your computer. If you want fast pulldown, put a TXV on it. The smallest TXV's are too big for a CPU direct die, but are just right for a chiller that is cooling everything in the computer. These A/C chillers rock. We haven't shown what these things are capable of doing yet. :D

[afireinside]

My AC has to have the worst design ever... Super small suction line and all :(

[Peen]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
A 6000 BTU compressor is 1/2 HP. That's more than enough for everything on your computer. If you want fast pulldown, put a TXV on it. The smallest TXV's are too big for a CPU direct die, but are just right for a chiller that is cooling everything in the computer. These A/C chillers rock. We haven't shown what these things are capable of doing yet. :D Jamal is seriously considering fine tuning the refigerant. Im going to join the chiller game also and im copying him :hehe:

[afireinside]

I'm gona make my own and keep my ears longer than you guys :lol:

[Gary Lloyd]

Direct die systems are more popular than chillers, because we haven't seen what a real chiller can do, yet. You lose a few degrees in the extra layer of heat exchange, but you gain a lot of advantages.

Multiple blocks, no problem. Upgrade blocks, hoses, pumps, no problem. Add more blocks, no problem. De-humidify and cool the case, no problem. Disconnect it, move it, and reconnect it, no problem.

And then there are cascade and autocascade chillers, not to mention full submersion.

Chillers rock. :D

[afireinside]

Chillers rock. :D
Yep because you dont have to you dont have to worry about an evap block :p:

What do you do for a pump bellow -40C tho?

[kommando]

There are such pumps, expensive though.

Im grabing an ac unit probally next weekend and getting mine done FOR SURE!

[jamaljaco]

Originally posted by afireinside
I'm gona make my own and keep my ears longer than you guys :lol: I just found a 5200 btu unit for peen this weekend 50 bucks at a pawnshop near new. This thing is great ,its less loud than high end fan cooling . last time I buy an ac for someone else, lol.:D

[afireinside]

Hah peen is a luckey man :D Well I want to do this as a learning expirence to. I got my compressor so when that gets here I'll finalise my plans and order the rest up from rparts :D

[kommando]

I found some smallish aircon at some shop on sale for 79 bucks, might grab it but gots to check it out first :D

[afireinside]

Cool :D I scored a 1/3 HP 5510 BUT R12 Copland comp off ebay for around 70 shipped earlier :banana:

[kommando]

You bastard, good find.

[Boyne7]

oooh, i happen to have that same compressor (i believe) in my 6000BTU a/c unit. now i just gotta get my parents permission to rip that thing apart. lol

[Boyne7]

when i said that compressor i meant the LG one from the very beginning of this thread

[kommando]

Whats this peircing valve or something everyones been talking about?

[vlad]

A peircing valve is a valve you can add to a line without cutting and rebrasing that gives you a threaded connection to add or remove frion.;)

[kommando]

Okay tommorow im getting an ac unti from fats for free so grats to him for his kidness. Will do alot of :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: on sunday aus time so thats when pics arrive.

Wish me luck. Might ask a few questions during the days progress too...

Decided to ditch me old project :)

[acumo]

Originally posted by vlad
If you go to homedepot look for this instead of auto antifreeze. its way better. and cheaper too!

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=276439



Where can I find Hercules Cryo-tek? I dropped by Home Depot and Lowes, and they don't seem to carry it. Someone please help! I'm in the Southern California area by the way.

[vlad]

Home depot does have it. that's where i get it, Look in the heating area near the display of boilers & furneses.Its easy to miss & sometimes theyre out. ask someone. Its around $9/gall. ;)

[acumo]

Originally posted by vlad
Home depot does have it. that's where i get it, Look in the heating area near the display of boilers & furneses.Its easy to miss & sometimes theyre out. ask someone. Its around $9/gall. ;)

Alright, I'll go back and look. I hate the people that work there -- I swear they don't know what they have and don't have. I'm usually better off looking for it myself!

[Calab]

Time for another person to jump into this madness of a thread. I have tossed around pelt/direct die/chiller for a couple weeks reading every bit I could on each subject. And so here I am.

Had a 6,000 btu A/C sitting on my back porch for almost 2 years. I tore into it to get to the goodies and left a small mess.
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/mess.jpg


Here is the unit:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/unit.jpg


The numbers:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/label.jpg


Compressor:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/compressor.jpg


Evap:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/width.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/height.jpg


Running to make sure it works: (evap fan still attached)
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/accum.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/evap.jpg


this is it for now (same old boring stuff). going to go grab some tools and toys. want to have the resevoir running by the afternoon.

[Calab]

round 1 of supply fetching:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/supplies.jpg


still have to go find myself a fitting cooler

[vlad]

Originally posted by acumo
Alright, I'll go back and look. I hate the people that work there -- I swear they don't know what they have and don't have. I'm usually better off looking for it myself!
You got that right. Most of dont know their as*es from their elbows. ;)

[vlad]

Originally posted by Calab
Time for another person to jump into this madness of a thread. I have tossed around pelt/direct die/chiller for a couple weeks reading every bit I could on each subject. And so here I am.

Had a 6,000 btu A/C sitting on my back porch for almost 2 years. I tore into it to get to the goodies and left a small mess.

The numbers:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/label.jpg




this is it for now (same old boring stuff). going to go grab some tools and toys. want to have the resevoir running by the afternoon.

Thats the same size i used here and it got me down to -43c. I used a 5gal egloo. Good luck it should be a good one.:toast:

[Calab]

thanks vlad, now I have something for comparison;) I'll be sticking mine in the same as pimpsho and mrnuke, it's a 3.25gal cooler. speaking of which.....

the cooler in all it's glory:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/cooler.jpg

todays excursion:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/receipts.jpg

[Calab]

i had a pipe bender on my shopping list, neither home depot or menard's carried them. instead of looking harder, i figured i could just bend it by hand. well, needless to say, i kinked it. there is 1 kink just before entering the evap (not a bad one) and one in the middle of the copper (this one doesn't look so good). what should i do? should i reinforce it somehow, or should i just be aware and more careful, and just try to finish getting the evap into the cooler, and the cooler in it's resting place?

i actually planned on buying a new ac unit to do this, and at the last minute i remembered this 6100 btu out on my back porch. if i end up having to purchase a new unit, it's not a big loss, i budgeted for it anyways, would be a bonus though if i didn't have to wait till monday to get a new unit.

kink entering evap:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/evap_kink.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/evap_kink_closeup.jpg


kink in middle of line:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/kink.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/kink_closeup.jpg

[Calab]

after waiting a while, i slowly gained bravery, so i took a second shot at it....


http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/bad_kink_1.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/bad_kink_2.jpg


looks like i'll be getting that new ac unit after all. going to widen my search for a 1/2 pipe bender.

also, is there any easy way to tackle those U loops with a bender? that's the only area that gave me trouble. trying to straighten 3 U loops is what caused the kinks.

the kink shown above is a result of the vap being turned clockwise about 60ish dergrees, then putting just a tad to much down pressure when it was in the cooler. it was unavoidable in the way i tackled the process.

[kommando]

Looks like a mad cooler if you can fix them kinks up so mysterious way.

[Pimpsho]

have you cranked her on yet to see how she is doing? looking good bro!

[Calab]

i'm sure it would be workable if i had the skill level. but this was kind of a sacrificial unit anyways, not to down about losing the unit. the only thing i'm down about is being at a stand still on this project :brick:

btw, i found vice grips and some of the padding i ripped out from the inside to suite really well in preventing further kinking in the middle of the line. to bad i didn't have a second et of grips, might have gotten away with it then.

[Calab]

Originally posted by Pimpsho
have you cranked her on yet to see how she is doing? looking good bro!


i guess i'll go crank her up, i'd imagine i'm going to impede performance with the kink being right there tho, plus it's still not completely seated in the cooler, will take some more finagling, but at this point i have nothing to loose.

[Calab]

and i'm left with this

http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/temp_evap.jpg


http://www.speakeasy.org/~obrienp/post/temp_comp.jpg

[Pimpsho]

thats same as mine bro looks like your ac unit is "A" okaay! and i also have the same thermomitor as you....mickey mouse said that these thermomitors start trippin out at about -25c....

[kommando]

Tweaking time :)

[Gary Lloyd]

Those kinks can be straightened out with a flaring block if not too severe.

[Calab]

pimpsho, good to hear i just over reacted, but today i couldn't even get the compressor to kick on. i played around with it for a bit and even gave it a kick out of frustration, but no luck. i am leaning towards picking up a new unit tommorrow. maybe build a insulated plexi glass reservoir and insulate it to no end so i can fit it all back in the original housing and mount it in the window. the thermometers lcd has it's quarks now since taking that -26 reading.

gary, i've used a flaring block a few times on a pipes end before installing them in a wall and running electrical wires thru them. i've never used it in other situations. is there a different tool for a setup like this? seems like it would difficult to get a flare tool in there with the tight radius bend.

[UnderWare1213]

Okay, just some questions for clarification.

I see people using methanol-based antifreeze with their chillers, correct? How much of that should one use for a solution with distilled water?

One more question. If the waterblocks are lucite-topped, does it run the risk of the top cracking? Or should it be fine?

Thanks for the responses. This is one kick-ass thread!

[Gary Lloyd]

gary, i've used a flaring block a few times on a pipes end before installing them in a wall and running electrical wires thru them. i've never used it in other situations. is there a different tool for a setup like this? seems like it would difficult to get a flare tool in there with the tight radius bend.


There is no easy way. The easy way is to not kink it to begin with.

[Pimpsho]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
There is no easy way. The easy way is to not kink it to begin with.
lol amen to that gary!! thats what happened to me...you warned me and said it would be worth gettin some pipe benders...but i got carried away and broke mine!:rolleyes:

[Calab]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
There is no easy way. The easy way is to not kink it to begin with.

then why suggest it?

[Gary Lloyd]

Because it works, but it ain't easy.

[nietsni3]

how much increasing in electric bill do you expect when you are running a phase change system 24/7? let say 1/2HP

[Gary Lloyd]

My chillers run 2.5-3.0amps @115V/60Hz. They are 1/2HP.

[ThunderTLW]

Hi I've been reading this forum and you all have answered many of my questions I had about cooling with an A/C unit. I'm plaining on building one soon just gathering parts to use.

The plan is to use and old table top pop machine's system for cooling and to have the mother board submerged in 3M's HFE-7100 that way the chipset and memory can be clocked up too.
And I had plained to put it in a portable cart for easy moving!
(I got and old EKG machine out of the trash at the hospital that should hold every thing and be quieter, the side panels are insulated). I'll post some pics when I get my cam back, soon.

[FaTs]

So hows the chiller coming Kommando :D

I got a tad side tracked from my project, I even thought of using my aircon unit as *gasp* an aircon unit. Thank god reason prevailed.


I've been busy upgrading my waterblocks, pumps, tubing ect. I'm planning to chill everything, cpu, nb, gpu. All Silverprop blocks.

I've bought a big ass chest type thingy to put the evap in, just got to cut it up and insulate it :)

I'll post some piccys when I get something worthwhile done :D

[gkiing]

26,000 views on this thread... wow!

[nuclear]

It seems i've been...cursed...with the same setup Pimpsho has as far as the tubes. Picked up a $75 5000BTU Goldstar from Lowes over the weekend and just took a peak inside.

I'm still gathering necessary supplies-ie tube bender, etc but so far it seems I'll be taking a similar approach as Pimpsho for bending the tubing.

One thing I'm noticing though is what appears to be the temp probe on the evap. It appears to be just a copper attached by a clip with a silver-coated tip? I wonder if that will cause problems since most people have a wired probe and cuts/splices to keep the compressor running?

Looks like this will be a time consuming project to say the least :toast:

(I already have some pics but saving posting any until I actually begin work...today was just a scouting mission to see how easy it would be to position the tubes)

[kayl]

its the thermostat, where the power goes into it just disconnect the two wires and join them together, this will disable it and it will run untill you turn it off

[JSU]

:with: if you dont understand ill see if I can post a pic

[Gary Lloyd]

Originally posted by nuclear
It seems i've been...cursed...with the same setup Pimpsho has as far as the tubes. Picked up a $75 5000BTU Goldstar from Lowes over the weekend and just took a peak inside.

I'm still gathering necessary supplies-ie tube bender, etc but so far it seems I'll be taking a similar approach as Pimpsho for bending the tubing.

One thing I'm noticing though is what appears to be the temp probe on the evap. It appears to be just a copper attached by a clip with a silver-coated tip? I wonder if that will cause problems since most people have a wired probe and cuts/splices to keep the compressor running?

Looks like this will be a time consuming project to say the least :toast:

(I already have some pics but saving posting any until I actually begin work...today was just a scouting mission to see how easy it would be to position the tubes)

I wouldn't recommend taking the same approach as pimpsho for obvious reasons. I would try to wrap the suction line around the back of the evap, so that both the evap and the lower portion of the suction line fits inside the cooler.

[JSU]

btw if i wanted to regass with r507 (let say there wasnt a problem with the oil incompatibility) would I have to change the cap tube?

[i_jester]

All this talk about A/C and cool cpu's has given me the BUG!

I scrounged around in the garage and happened to find an old Kenmore 6000 btu a/c unit. The evaporator and condensor are somewhat larger than many of the ones you guys are using, but what the hey. I turned it on and got pretty cold air coming out so I started dissasembling it today.

[i_jester]

Oops, pic a little on the large side. Next Pic -

[i_jester]

DOH! Like a total noob I post the same pic twice in full theatre size.

[chaser435]

This is the best thread ever on Ac/chiller ever, I have so many Ideas In my head now but Im going to do mine a little different but to post pictures on what I have now. 1 Koolance Cpu cooler 200w 2 Swiftech Mcw40 graphics card cooler and a Dolphin pond/tank master 4.5 gpm..One question here my cpu water block has yellow plastic on the top is that going to be a problem for the low temps like would it break...Next I want to build a small box clear plastic or uv over my cooling blocks and vacume tight them for condensation control I think this is going to look nice better than insulation its to bulky and I would like to see my cooling system not cover it up...I need help finding some sites that sell cheap plastic sheets or uv maybe 3/8 thick or 3/16 I want them to be strong under pressure because Im going to vacume pressure if I can for insulation if it works this will be sweet....

[chaser435]

Hey Gary Lloyd where you at I would like your help on this little mod I got going on here. Just seeing where u at .

[Redwolf]

paragraphs are you friend:)

The epoxy you'll have to use on the box. May or may not work under the pressures of a vacuum. Only one way to find out tho.

Do you know what the Injected molded top is made of? PVC, Vinyl, etc..
And what tempature are you going to be running at?
With those two bits of info.. its easy to look up.

[chaser435]

The plastic is acrylic see through 1/4 inch thick good stuff 18'' by 24'' plenty enough to do what I need and maybe a window for the side of the computer...one smaller piece for my video card 8'' by 10'' !/8 inch thick plenty enough. I bought some high strength epoxy adhesive it has a temp of -40c to 80c this is the lowest numbers I could find, hope it holds.. And a tube of silicone 2 100% sealent clear for a second sealent...all this for 26.17 not bad. A total so far 129.74 exspensive but not so bad for three cooling blocks and a pump and everytheng else... Ill post picture when boxes are done ...

[Juicy629]

well first of all bro..under any pressure or flexing that epoxy seal is going to bust..what you need is some platic weld..if you check my thread under chilled liquied - juicys chiller, i have a picture of it undertheir...now pressure..well epoxy should be good..the weakest stuff is rated 1000psi..you just need the seal to hold up..the plastic weld fuses the plastic..to be honest if theirs any amount of pressure beyond 10psi that silicone is pointless..id just take it off...ugly...and now i just saw your post..lol the orig one..all youll need is silicone..shouldnt be pressure. And if anything the temps in that box will be higher then anywhere else cuz their wont be any fresh circulating air.:D

[chaser435]

I dont think Im going to put that much of a vacume on it, just a little or maybe none at all because I cant find anything to use to suck the air out..But when I do its on, Im just going to put a little vacume on it just to get the air inside of the box out but in reality it will work both ways non vacume or vacume I just want to get the air out...
I found this very high strengh epoxy one is 1000 lbs per sq in and the other is 2500 lbs per sq in so that is plenty of holding power.. And Im going to run cross sections for support like side to side will make this very stable, no flexing allowed on this project. I havent cut any plastic today but I got it all laid out and ready to cut wendsday Ill post pictures later...

[chaser435]

Hey juicy629 seen your cooler nice but Im doing something different Im building small boxes around my cooling blocks on the mother board for condensation control but I did get an Idea from your plastic cooler box it was nice... one question here Im having some trouble with the epoxy did u have problems too ? did u put the glue mainly on insides and outsides like a weld or put glue one piece and stuck the other to it and put a huge bead all around the sides ?

[Juicy629]

bro i know what yer doing...ive been reading you posts...first...if you get the right stuff..just putting it on the flat edge and putting the peice together will suffice...i would recommend some silicone after the "Epoxy Platic Weld" just in case you miss a spot...to be honest im still trying to concieve your vacum concept...Periodically suck out the hot air?..or always on?...why not just throw some copper piping in their and have a fan blowing on it.?

[=[PULSAR]=]

How big are most of these chiller compressors everyone is using?

[TARZAN]

edit

[Skip]

so if i got that tiny little 70$ kenmore a/c unit basically in a nutshell i would have to

1. gut it
2. make or buy a res and place the evaporator in it
3. get some denatured alcohol and some antifreeze for corrosion
4. good tygon tubing
5. then bend the tubes and whatever and now i'm a little confused, you take a pierceing valve and drain the charge until you find the lowest temp, but then how do i patch that piercing up?

insulate and stuff and then finished.

so is that the essentials, probably in the wrong order, but is that the basics?

[Judaeus Apella]

28 pages is a little too much info for me to go through right now. What I dont understand is how that cold reaches the cpu. Is he using water.... or what? If he is, how is the water cooled. Can someone explain this whole thing to me? If what he's doing is a bit more advanced for a first timer, what do you guys recommend thats still effective? Keep in mind, I have never done anything like this, I have never worked on A/C units nor have I ever done any professional electrical/HVAC work or welding. I dont even own a blow torch nor know how to use one. Are there different methods for using an A/C unit?

[Onycho]

28 pages is a little too much info for me to go through right now.

I'm a n00b as well, but take the time to read. One thread I keep hearing over and over is that if you don't do this right it can be quite dangerous. And if you're not going to take the time now to just read up, then I doubt you're going to take the time to be careful if you do anything like this. Like all things, if it's worth doing, take the time to do it right {jumps off soapbox}

Now that that's over...I have a question as well. I think this summer I'll be doing an AC into a chiller. I'll have lots of help, my bro is an EC tech at Boeing and he's got friends that work the HVAC systems so I'll have lots of help.

System that will be cooled will be running a socket 939 AMD and dual 6800 Ultra video cards. Which of these AC units would be the better start?

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=APPL&pid=04274055000&subcat=Single+Room+Units

or

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=APPL&pid=04274900000&subcat=Single+Room+Units

?

[Judaeus Apella]

Well the thing is Im incredibly busy right now. Is there a guide or something I can look at?

[chaser435]

Wow what a trip that was , I had some problems on the way of building my chiller and most of it was bfg rma service. I had a problem with my computer it shut down with that wierd blue screen protecting the windows and never new why!!!! But when I got into building my chiller I seen on my video card It was missing a chip on the board and right then I knew that was why my computer was acting up... So I rma my card and getting tech to believe it had a missing chip was hard because they dont believe anything so anyways I got a card and it was missing the same chip that my first card was missing..So I call them back and to make this a short story it took 3 months of back and forth to get a good card what a nightmare !!!!!!

So here is my next problem I found a 12000 btu ac and it was free thanks mom but I cant get it to fire up .... I think it is the thermostat it had a long little tube connected to it and it cracked off in the build... can someone help me on getting this thing running thanks...

[unclean]

Hi, I've just read through all 28 pages, most useful information, however, i still have a couple of questions before i commence on my own system over the summer.

I currently have an Eheim 1250 pump, what kind of temperatures will this be suited down to? I'm hoping for final temps of around -40 degrees celcius. I also have a DangerDen TDX CPU block, this has a lucite top, are there any problems with using this kind of top? I've also got lots of Tagan R3603 tubing, would this be usable down to -40?

Thanks in advance!

[eBoy0]

Hi, I've just read through all 28 pages, most useful information, however, i still have a couple of questions before i commence on my own system over the summer.

I currently have an Eheim 1250 pump, what kind of temperatures will this be suited down to? I'm hoping for final temps of around -40 degrees celcius. I also have a DangerDen TDX CPU block, this has a lucite top, are there any problems with using this kind of top? I've also got lots of Tagan R3603 tubing, would this be usable down to -40?

Thanks in advance!

Yah, i also have the same question, on the plexi top and what kinda temps can most pumps handle? Like my Mag3, do plexi tops crack under such subtemps?

[Zenjirou]

Wow, very nIce Thread.

I know this is a n00b Question , but.



Can something be done with a Mini Fridge in the same manner AC units were used in this thread. I got a spare Mini Fridge, the compressor I peaked at and says 1PH, 80 watts.

Or are AC units cheap enough for it to be Worth it.

[Frozendeath]

A mini fridge is not capable of holding a constant heatload. You risk burning out the compressor, as well as getting high temps (the condensor is no where near rated for a PCs constant heat output).

Just try to pick up an AC unit. $80 at walmart come spring (may or so, before summer hits)

The smallest you can find is still overkill, so a 5000 btu unit will do a great job.

[liv2surf34]

Yah, i also have the same question, on the plexi top and what kinda temps can most pumps handle? Like my Mag3, do plexi tops crack under such subtemps?

I would suggest brass topped versions for those kind of temps. Also if you submerge a mag3 in your res it will most likely crack being that cold. My advice would be to get a little giant pump and run it in inline. Tygon R3603 should be fine, just insulate everything a lot. PM me if you have any other questions.

[Jonathan_S]

Well I have started on my chiller, I had taken the window AC unit out of the bedroom for the winter, it was in the garage just sitting there...... I broke a line trying to bend the copper lines. Dam well it looks like I am going to be taking it into a shop to get it fixed up after I get it all mounted up. I completely removed the 110 fan. I am using 120mm 12v computer case fans. I bought a 120v to 12v 3 amp transformer, a crossover and a 4700mf capacitor from radio shack. I cut the wiring harness off of the 110v fan and have it running to the transformer. I have room on the condenser for a total of six of the 120mm case fans. Right now I only have three but will be getting the rest soon enough. I could not find the small cooler that you guys are using so my reservoir is a bit bigger….. Probably too big, 34 quart, LOL. I think I may be putting a spacer in it to take up some room. I’ll post some pics when I get closer to getting it finished.

[Jonathan_S]

Hmmm I was at the auto part store today and found a 12v fan for a radiator I think it is about the right size but they want $54 but it has a fan shroud.... I am reconsidering my case fans and maybe will buy this fan..... My transformer has a middle line so I can run 6v and my AC unit has a regular and turbo speed (both are currently wired to my transformer so they do the same speed) I think I can figure out a solenoid circuit to do 6v and 12v (turbo)

[{.bLanK} GoD]

Great thread people!
I have caught the subzero addiction and am in the process of building a liquid chiller.
Any thoughts or advice on a ehiem 1250 (http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=38&cat=26&page=1) and a RBX cpu block (http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-230.html?id=HC5ieSy6) for down to -40c?

[afireinside]

1250 is a good chiller pump. RBX sucks. You want a simple block. MCW6002 works perfect.

[{.bLanK} GoD]

Hmmm i read somewhere that these are a lot easyer to insulate too.
Being all copper brazed together,i'd feel a lot better using this block with extremely cold temps. Not to mention it's performance.

[{.bLanK} GoD]

You haven't tuned it yet, so you don't know how low it can go.

Next you need to get a piercing valve and a set of gauges.

:slapass:

I'd just like to point out to all the noobs out there reading this thread, before you go dumping refridgerent into our lovely atmosphere, that in most countrys it is illegal and comes with a hefty fine if you are caught.And besides, i live directly below that hole in the ozone layer everybodys so worried about, so quit it! lol

[Jonathan_S]

:slapass:

I'd just like to point out to all the noobs out there reading this thread, before you go dumping refridgerent into our lovely atmosphere, that in most countrys it is illegal and comes with a hefty fine if you are caught.And besides, i live directly below that hole in the ozone layer everybodys so worried about, so quit it! lol

Well that is why propane is a good refregerant. !!!!

[{.bLanK} GoD]

Well that is why propane is a good refregerant. !!!!

And guess why propane can be a bad idea.:explode2: Haha

(if not used correctly that is)

[awesomebilly]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=13863&product%5Fid=13864

[Xeon th MG Pony]

:slapass:

I'd just like to point out to all the noobs out there reading this thread, before you go dumping refridgerent into our lovely atmosphere, that in most countrys it is illegal and comes with a hefty fine if you are caught.And besides, i live directly below that hole in the ozone layer everybodys so worried about, so quit it! lol

Dito we got that lovely hole in BC too, So Venting to atmospher is stupid, don't be stupid!

[andybg]

Wow what a trip that was , I had some problems on the way of building my chiller and most of it was bfg rma service. I had a problem with my computer it shut down with that wierd blue screen protecting the windows and never new why!!!! But when I got into building my chiller I seen on my video card It was missing a chip on the board and right then I knew that was why my computer was acting up... So I rma my card and getting tech to believe it had a missing chip was hard because they dont believe anything so anyways I got a card and it was missing the same chip that my first card was missing..So I call them back and to make this a short story it took 3 months of back and forth to get a good card what a nightmare !!!!!!

So here is my next problem I found a 12000 btu ac and it was free thanks mom but I cant get it to fire up .... I think it is the thermostat it had a long little tube connected to it and it cracked off in the build... can someone help me on getting this thing running thanks...

You'll have to replace that control with something else. When the tube snapped you lost your charge in the bulb/tube.

[wdrzal]

You'll have to replace that control with something else. When the tube snapped you lost your charge in the bulb/tube.


:lastweek: or january 31/05 is this case;)

:welcome: to Xs but you may want to check the date of the post ;)

[wdrzal]

it was 6:08am and have not slept for several days.

[godsgifttoearth]

what are the fins on the evaporator usually made out off on aircons? are they aluminium? if they are, is there ever any problem with mixing those with copper waterblocks? or does the use of alcohol prevent this?

[Starkiller42]

Alu, usually. But if you mix in lotsa antifreeze, you should be well protected (just like your car's cooling system ;) ).

I don't think that alcohol confers any corrosion benefits; in fact I think methanol at least exacerbates the issue.

[TopherTony]

reread and....nvm
wow this hasnt been touched in a while

[Unoid]

ever through of putting two rads in 1 cooler? That way you won't have to circulate alcohol whatever mix inside the cooler. Just put the computer loop radiate submerged inside the cooler. Warm coolant in the cooler will rise to top :) Not as efficient but close.

[HawaiianSupermn]

Been using my home brew setup for a bit now and using antifreeze has prevented any signs of corrosion on the blocks. The biggest draw back I've found is what appears to be cavitation on the pumps, 1 swiftech and 1 alphacool 24v @ about -30c .

submerging rads in a closed loop into the evap bath with a sharp temp change could cause contracting and expanding within the loop and I'd guess cause some fitting to break loose or blocks to crack. Just a noob shot at it.

[Axiomatic]

wow, great thread. i read the whole thing!

I am and have been interested in building a chiller system for a hobby computer for some time. I have built 2 water cooled (radiator) systems and feel it's time to move on to cooler :rofl: things. What i plan to do is take the evap on an A/C unit and submerge it in a liquid like what you guys are doing. However, I will be moving that coolant through a radiator that is submerged in a mineral oil bath that is shared by the computer.

current system:
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/2246/copyofp1173096ob2.th.jpg (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofp1173096ob2.jpg)http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6096/p1173081rx6.th.jpg (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1173081rx6.jpg)http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/139/p1173082lo9.th.jpg (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1173082lo9.jpg)

so evap chills coolant and then coolant chills oil bath. to alleviate the issue of hot spots in the oil i will be incorporating a full water-block system on the mobo of the computer (cpu-block, ram-block, north and southbridge-block, gpu/vram-block, etc) the pump in the oil bath will move oil through the block system to assure that oil is always moving over those components. the oil starts by being sucked through the grid of the radiator (chilled by coolant) into the block system and then when the oil has passed through it is ejected into the ambient oil bath, thereby keeping the non-blocked components cooled. the oil bath is to keep any and all condensation off any of the components. (no water present means no condensation! wewt!)


sound plausible? i think it may be a little overly complex BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE SO MUCH FUN! you guys seem to give good advice on these forums and so i sought you out for an opinion.

i have some crude drawings to follow.

[Axiomatic]

the promised drawings. lol these are not meant to convey specifics, just the general ideas of what i'm trying to accomplish.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7065/scangs2.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scangs2.jpg)http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8395/scan0001tv9.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0001tv9.jpg)

[Axiomatic]

BAH! you guys aren't any fun =(