Kingston email concerning KHX3500 and BH5/CH5

[Hell-Fire]

I sent Tech Support an email asking whether they would confirm what almost all of us are saying about the 3500 sticks being CH5. This email I received could just have been answered by someone that just doenst truly know the answer or not to be honest, but we will see after he answers my reply. Here is the reply I received:

=============================================

Hello Ron,

Unfortunately I cannot guarantee which one will ship at any given time.
Since both are used.

Best regards,
Chris Bodda
Technical Support
Kingston Technology Company


|---------+---------------------------->
| | "Simple Nomad" |
| | <simple_nomad@hot|
| | mail.com> |
| | |
| | 11/17/2003 01:14 |
| | AM |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------->

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|
| To: tech_support@kingston.com
|
| cc:
|
| Subject: HyperX KHX3500 Question
|
| Categories: New Email

|


>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Can you tell me if the modules you are using in the HyperX KHX 3500 sticks
are BH-5 or CH-5 modules?

Curious so I can post my findings on web forums about your product.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Sincerely,
Ron Bradley


I of course replied saying that I was almost certain that all 3500 sticks were using the CH5 and could he confirm that some were using BH5 or not. I also asked him about the voltage rating as a marker for whether the sticks were CH5/BH5 or not...ie: 2.5v = CH5 and 2.6v = BH5.

We will see how they respond.

[saaya]

hehe they dont like to comment on what chips they use... they usually reply with some crap like "kingston only uses ics with the highest quality.... lowest interference...low voltage...low gheat output... bla bla bla bla" :D

they want to keep everybody believing that kingston memory uses kingstons own chips, and not ch5 wich can be bought a lot cheaper on other sticks...

[luihed]

He cant guarantee cos he doesnt know WTF youre talkin about..... When I RMA my 3500, I asked them to ship me some that came with BH-5 and after dealing with 3 tech support guy, none of them knew what I was talking about......

[drunkenmaster]

not everyone that works for a company knows everything about the products they sell, when you get a guy on the phone, or a rma guy, it could be someone who takes his job seriously, could be a new guy getting a little training, could be a guy that is paid jsut to pick up the phone and take messages.

I don't think any company would say anything diff in this situation, its very clear that khx3500 has a lotta ch-5 based sticks, but some don't always sell, get sold later, so theres always a slim chance of getting some older bh-5. They have no way of knowing, so say it could be either, what you want them to say?

[Tedinde]

arent the 3200 kingstons still BH-5???

Im still using BH5 kingstons i got when the HypX 3500's first came out.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally Posted by drunkenmaster
.......what you want them to say?


I want them so own up to whatever the hell they are selling us thats all. Maybe thats to much to ask I am afraid. Kinda like Honda selling me a 240hp Accord but telling me not to open the hood since for all they know it could be a 4cylinder.

[lalPOOO]

But its not like they really have anything to "own up to". They're suppling ram which meets the specs of pc3500, and runs at cas2 and probably costs less then the bh-5 sticks did. If anything they're doing everyone who doesn't overclock a favor, because they can sell the ram cheaper. (while that would probably also drive down ram prices overal, its not quite a direct relationship)

I don't like ch-5 anymore then you do, but not because it doesn't do what its supposed to, but because it doesn't do a lot more. As the people above said, its probably not that they're trying to hide the information from you, just that the low level tech support doesn't know because they don't need to. If you're patient, you probably will get a response that satisfies you, it'll just have to go through that 'cost effective' coporate ladder.
You already know what they're going to say though, ch-5 for everyone :D

[Hell-Fire]

Yeh, I agree with you there....I do prefer the BH5 obviously, and I am not saying that Kingston stuck the CH5 in their high end sticks just to spite the overclockers or anything, but I would prefer that someone from the Tech Support atleast know their product thats all I am asking.

Its not like I emailed the Sales Dept or the RMA Dept, I emailed the one group that I thought would have a handle on the situation. I do think that they do need to know the product from front to back....thats what Tech Support is all about, but thats just my $.02. Not to mention, is all Tech Support suppose to know is the timings, voltage, and...ummmm wait..guess thats it. Not that any of that stuff isnt on the box to begin with. Maybe they outsourced their Tech Support to Idiotville like everyone else did. But hey, screw customer service to begin with, its not like the customer buys the stuff......errrrrrrrrrr

Just be accountable to the product they are selling is all that I am inquiring about. HyperX is some gr8 ddr imho, but something as basic as what they use inside it isnt a tuff question. They list everything on the danged Data Sheets (http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500_512.pdf) except what most hardcore gamers and overclockers are concerned with right now. Isnt this stuff actually pushed toward us insane gamers to begin with. Asking whats "under the hood" isnt something thats to terrible to ask and is something that should be expected I would think.

Here let me sell you this Porsche....
How fast 0-60.....
Beats hell outta me......

Get the analogy I hope....thats a basic question that the seller better be able to answer.

[drunkenmaster]

point is that you seem to be missing, is that clearly its still POSSIBLE< that where you buy the ram from will have 3 sticks of bh-5 version left in the bottom of a box that got covered by newer sticks and so on, or one box got misplaced and got sent to shop recently. They sold teh bh-5 version, therefore its possible you get one, very unlikely, but possible. Maybe, they DO add some bh-5 to some sticks of which 99% get sent to newbs who wouldn't know. You don't like the answer cos you expect them to say No, we don't ship bh-5 anymore. If thats not correct, then they gave the right answer.

There is no way to track every single stick and tell you like, well if you order the 5th stick to be sold by newegg on the 20th of this month, you'll be getting a bh-5 stick \o/

Also, why do you expect a customer support person to know everything about EVERYTHING they sell. The khx3500 is probably the 3rd lowest selling item behind pc3700 and pc4000 ram. If i go to take a faulty t-shirt back to a shop i don't expect the sales guy, or the returns department to know anything about the t-shirt. I don't expect that anywhere, and most people don't, but a lotta people seem to expect computer tech supports too???

TBH a lotta people will know about a lotta what they sell, you can't be soo stupid as to not pick something up, but again, they could probo answer questions better on stuff they sell all the time, khx3500 is very much not a product like that.

[Hell-Fire]

You are one fiesty person arent ya drunkenmaster? :hehe:

I dont expect to track every single stick they make man, gimme a break, all I wanted to know from them is whether or not they could confirm that all the 3500 sticks that are being produced from now on are going to be CH5. Do you work for Kingston or something m8, cause it seems like a touched a nerve.

I dont expect a "Customer Support" person to know everything about everything they sell, but I would hope that a "Tech Support" person would have a database to look at so they could anser questions, or atleast know where to find the answer.

[st0nedpenguin]

Heh, reminds me of the last time I was in PC World, we watched a "Trained PC World Technician" spend nearly ten minutes trying to open the lid of a laptop, the owner even told him how to do it, still no luck.

PC World are still running their commercial advertising their well trained staff, makes me s:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: everytime I see it. :D

[BigDov]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë
[BI also asked him about the voltage rating as a marker for whether the sticks were CH5/BH5 or not...ie: 2.5v = CH5 and 2.6v = BH5.

We will see how they respond. [/B]

So is this really true?? I've just recently purchased some 3200, marked KHX3200A with the 2.6v on the sticker, and I read somewhere else, or here, that the A signified a new rev, and therefore CH5. I'm so confused!!! :confused:

[lalPOOO]

Here let me sell you this Porsche....
How fast 0-60.....
Beats hell outta me......



Well, in this case 0-60 is pc3500. I don't really agree with drunkenmaster as to how much they should know though. If they're technical support they should be able to answer questions about the sticks, installing them, and problems with them. I would imagine if you were to send them another email asking if they get lots of emails about the excat memory chip on their ram, it'd probably be less then 1 in 500. I think its pretty safe asumme that all the new pc3500 hyperx is ch-5 though, and the only possible way to get bh-5 is from the bottom of a box, like drunkenmaster said.

What a better thing to know would be, when did they stop making the hyperx with bh-5. Armed with that info you could probably go around shops asking when they got the hyperx.

Oh yea, have they responded yet?

[skate2snow]

Originally posted by BigDov
So is this really true?? I've just recently purchased some 3200, marked KHX3200A with the 2.6v on the sticker, and I read somewhere else, or here, that the A signified a new rev, and therefore CH5. I'm so confused!!! :confused: if you whantto no more about whats your memory go on my tread : HyperX or Mushkin???. Me, hell $ Fire and soulburner have talk alot of that.

oh and Hell $ Fire i dont post that becose i whant to stole your tread. Becose you we have talk alot about that;)

[skate2snow]

yeah man!!!! Kingston tech supports bull sh*t they dont no nothing about there RAMs

[Evil_Spork]

i have the exact opposite experience.

i called them, said my ram didnt work dual channel. they then overnight shipped me a new dual chanel pack free of charge. i then used their box to send my ram back. i think their tech support is great!

[Marci]

Kingston.... a company who employs a few hundred to a few thousand.

The only people who will know the full tech specs to that detail on their products will be the top engineers and technicians at the place. To them it isn't relevant to the customer what chips are on the ram, as long as it runs at it's rated speed. If you want to know this then it's clearly to overclock it (therefore voiding your warranty)... what do u expect them to do? Sometimes the way you lot §§§§§ and moan about manufacturers and suppliers is downright appalling...

There was a time when no manufacturer would give you tech info.... if u wanted to know, you went out and bought it and found out fer yerself... cut em some slack.

[skate2snow]

ok but i only have to contact them one time and its whas probably the guy whas so much §§§§!!!! but probably ive only pick an starter.

[CrashOv3r1De]

Well all engineers/techies are the same. You have to hope that a experienced overclocker/tech answers your e-mail and fills you in on the truth. Same when ordering CPU's and askign about steppings. 1/2 the techs don't know what your talking about but the ones that overclock WANT to help you.

[JAWS]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë I also asked him about the voltage rating as a marker for whether the sticks were CH5/BH5 or not...ie: 2.5v = CH5 and 2.6v = BH5.



I personally think it might be the other way around. I just received my second 256mb stick from newegg and it labeled A00 2.6v. I received anther stick months before A00 2.5v. One has to be CH5 and I've tested them both over 240+ FSB. :confused:

also running both 2,2,2,11. :confused:

[skate2snow]

Originally posted by JAWS
I personally think it might be the other way around. I just received my second 256mb stick from newegg and it labeled A00 2.6v. I received anther stick months before A00 2.5v. One has to be CH5 and I've tested them both over 240+ FSB. :confused:

also running both 2,2,2,11. :confused: no its CH5=2.5v and BH5=2.6. Go see HyperX or Mushkin???.

[Hell-Fire]

The CH5 modules require less voltage to hit high speeds than the BH5 did. Thats why I am thinking that the voltage reading on the stickers would be a good judge as to whether or not they are BH5/CH5 sticks.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by Marci
Kingston.... a company who employs a few hundred to a few thousand.

The only people who will know the full tech specs to that detail on their products will be the top engineers and technicians at the place. To them it isn't relevant to the customer what chips are on the ram, as long as it runs at it's rated speed. If you want to know this then it's clearly to overclock it (therefore voiding your warranty)... what do u expect them to do? Sometimes the way you lot §§§§§ and moan about manufacturers and suppliers is downright appalling...

There was a time when no manufacturer would give you tech info.... if u wanted to know, you went out and bought it and found out fer yerself... cut em some slack.

Marci **cough cough, lil edit here**, I have tons of respect for you knowledge and superior ability to overclock the hell outta a rig, so I will take what you said with a grain of salt and try to look at both sides of the cookie.

I am not trying to be extremely harsh towards Kingston at all, in fact they Fed Ex'd me 2 new sticks, which I received today, and told me to test em all out and keep the best 2 performing sticks. I think their customer service & RMA program are top notch, all I am saying is that maybe they go the extra mile for someone that spent 400 bones on their product to see if possibly I can find an answer for this guy or not. I dont think that asking details about an expensive product is to much to ask. Most of us want to know what stepping is that cpu, chat ics on the mem stick, whats this, whats that......and so forth. I am just trying to be an informed consumer, and maybe also provide back to a community (XtremeSystems) that has certainly expanded my knowledge of computer hardware and its capilities. I would think that if I got a definitive answer out of Kingston about a fairly "hot" product of theirs that some would be able to make a better, more informed, purchase. If I knew that a certain "make" of the 3500 line would give me BH5, bingo thats what I'm tracking down and finding..if not, then the 3200 line is the way to go seeing as that it is certainly BH5.

And to that I gladly say they actually came through with shining colors. I received today 2x512 KHX3500 that is indeed BH5 sticks. Also, I received an email from their Tech Dept giving me the run down on the 3500 line and above for the HyperX products as far as whether to expect BH5/CH5 modules. Here is the reply they sent me:

Hello Ron,

The KHX3200 are BH5. The KHX3500 are built with BH5 and CH5. I do not guarantee which one the KHX3500 will ship with at any given time. The older the revision of the product (ie: A00, A02, etc), the better the chance of receiving memory with the BH5 ic's. We, as many of our competitors have already done, have begun to move most of the high speed memory products to the CH5 "standard". This makes it cheaper to produce, as well as making certain that most, if not all, motherboards will have the ability to provide the needed voltage for the product to function at it's rated speed and timings.


Best regards,
Technical Support
Kingston Technology Company


Thats all I was asking for, and they delivered a strike. Well done Kingston. :toast:

Sorry if for what ever reason I rubbed a few of you the wrong way by voicing my opinion, and maybe I could have thought a few statements out better before saying them, but I am pretty tenacious when I want to know something....I want an answer if its plausible to get one.

Hey Company "X", I want to spend $400 on your product, whats in it?
I dont know, but give me your cash and Ill give you this and youll take it and like it.
Thats not how I do my purchasing.

They answered my question as I hoped and thought they would, the guy that I contacted first didnt know, so he kinda made a best guest and then went to someone that would have a better knowledge of the product and had them get in touch with me to make sure a loyal customer got an answer.

GOD, my fingers hurt.......lol:D

[Soulburner]

Hell Fire, I think you are mixing up Marci and macci :D.

[Hell-Fire]

:doh::doh::doh:

Oh well, what you want an over-amped overclocker to do when he feels like he got bent over and ruffed up. LMAO!

Thx SoulB, I needed to laff at myself. I need to step back and realize we all gotz our own opinions on matters and leave it at that....but hey, alteast I got my damn answer from Kingston...they have one hell of a Tech Support and RMA service.

My old HyperX3500 wouldnt even do their rated speeds at any voltage. All the old sticks would give me on a 24/7 use was 200fsb....yuck. The best they would cough up was 215 at 3.45v, and that was only good for a few loops of 3dmark before ye ole BSOD reared its ugly head. The ones they sent me are doing 225 at the moment, and went 25 full 21 test loops on 3dmark before I got tired of looking at it. I am betting with a good couple day burn in they will do 230+.

[hatemi]

The 2.5V sticks can have BH-5 or Samsung? but the 2.6V sticks are most deffinantly CH. I have HyperX3500 with BH and they are 2.5V

[Hell-Fire]

Are you positive that the sticks you have are BH5 and rated 2.5v? Did you take off the spreaders to check the actual modules?

If ya did, how the hell did you get those spreaders off..lol. Those clips are on there pretty good.

[hatemi]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë
Are you positive that the sticks you have are BH5 and rated 2.5v? Did you take off the spreaders to check the actual modules?

If ya did, how the hell did you get those spreaders off..lol. Those clips are on there pretty good.

Here they are. Labeled Kingston...

[hatemi]

And heres a pic of the spredder. The clips come of easily if you use some sharp object( Iused a blade in lethermann) and put the tip under the top of the clip and spredder. Then all you need to do is use it as a lever? and it comes of relatively easy.

[skate2snow]

its like impossible thats some BH5 becose BH5 are more demanding of power so it have to be some CH5

[skate2snow]

ive just find that : I have pair of Kingston HyperX PC3000 256Mb modules too and compared to them these PC3500 modules are a little bit higher. Label at the Heat-Spreader tells us memory type (KHX3500); it's capacity (256) and operating voltage (2.5V). One interesting thing is that Kingston has changed operating voltage recommendation few months ago from 2.5V to 2.6V. I have theory to this and it is that Kingston had to change memory chip type since Winbond stopped to manufacture BH-5 chips, which were originally used and started to produce CH-5 chips. Newer CH-5 chips seems to need a little bit higher voltage than older BH-5 chips.

sorry hatemi

[skate2snow]

oh and if you whant the article http://www.metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=0&path=reviews/hyperx_pc3500/index_eng

[hatemi]

The gyu who did that rewiew also checked the legs of the ICs in these sticks when I was buying this mobo from him, and said they sure look like his BH-5 PC3000 ram. This is the exact mobo he reviewed at www.metku.net :D

[skate2snow]

hey hell $ fire you dident have a reaspoond yet????

[Hell-Fire]

LOL...response from whom about what....I am confused now. :hehe:

hatemi, I dont see anything on those chips that would tell me whether they were BH5 or CH5..so I dont think you have your proof yet.

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Not posted on here for a long time but as most of you will know I work for www.overclockers.co.uk and recently upgraded my system to something a little faster.

I got myself an P4 3.2c, IC7-MAX3 and tried several different memory types such as Corsair XMS3500, TwinMos PC3200 and Kingston HyperX PC3200 and PC3500 parts for my new rig to see which ones gave the best results.
After testing all 4 different kits I had the Kingston HyperX PC3200 was superior to any of the other kits and hence I have got some good results. :)

For those interested you can see my results in this THREAD (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146417) on the OcUK Forums (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/)

I am very impressed with the results I have got and a couple of other member who got the same 512MB Kits have used upto 3.2v and managed 245FSB on 2-5-2-2 timings, I am limited to 2.8v max due to IC7-MAX3 issue but can still hit upto 234FSB at the same timings with PAT enabled in street fighter mode, so I am happy especially with 3500/3500 unbuffered sandra score I got on my 24/7 gaming rig. :)

The packs do say Winbond on them and suggest a default voltage of 2.6v, I personally think they are BH-5's to attain such good speeds with good timings.

[Hell-Fire]

I would be shocked if they werent BH5 chips as well.

I dont know if you read the entire thread or not, but I reccently got an RMA from Kingston because the sticks I had wouldnt even do the rated speeds at any timings or voltage. I think I got lucky and they sent me BH5 sticks cause they did 225 right outta the box @ 2-2-2-6 with no burn in. I am hoping for more after a few days of burn in, but I may have to do the Vdd mod. I can muster upwards of 4.25 Vdimm, not that I would use all that juice...LOL. The max I have gone up to is 3.3v and I will hang there for a bit.

On my last run of the night I got 230fsb @ 2-2-2-6 timings and 3500 bandwidth for an unbuffered run in Sandra. I'll takt that anyday over the crap I had before.

Thanks for your input Gibbo.

[Stinger]

Whats the 5.4ns thing isnt the chip 5ns?

[skate2snow]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë


hatemi, I dont see anything on those chips that would tell me whether they were BH5 or CH5..so I dont think you have your proof yet. but go see the article ive post and read it start to end you will see;)

[hatemi]

Does this look like CH-5?

Sorry for the crappy quality....Just hope I could post the whole screenie cos it shows 1M SuperPi has passed also...

[skate2snow]

im sure its some BH5 becose the 2.5 volt

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by hatemi
Does this look like CH-5?

Sorry for the crappy quality....Just hope I could post the whole screenie cos it shows 1M SuperPi has passed also...

But thats on an Intel board which runs higher fsb than most AMD boards to begin with.

I just read a review of your motherboard that did 250+ fsb very easily, so I am not sure I can take your screenie as definitive that those are BH5 chips man.

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by skate2snow
im sure its some BH5 becose the 2.5 volt

But most people are of the opinion that the lower voltage would make it CH5 because it traditionally needs lower voltages to hit high fsb, at the expense of timings.

The BH5 takes the higher voltage, but it can also handle the high volts.

[Tedinde]

But thats on an Intel board which runs higher fsb than most AMD boards to begin with

it's BH, CH wont run those tight timings @ that speed, I have the bh5 kingstons, with the same markings as the pics posted above.

[hatemi]

Originally posted by Hëll ‡ Fîrë
But most people are of the opinion that the lower voltage would make it CH5 because it traditionally needs lower voltages to hit high fsb, at the expense of timings.

The BH5 takes the higher voltage, but it can also handle the high volts.

No you got that wrong. The older HyperXs that have BH have deffault voltage of 2.5. After finding there was some problems with CH they upped the volts hoping it would help.

And CH-5wont most certainly work on Intel at these speeds, Most time not even at SPD timings and speeds! Actually I believe Ch works much better on nForce2...

[kromosto]

yes there are bh-5 rated 2.5 (old ones do that)

[enzoR]

my pc3500 hyperx CH5 is labled 2.5v. you cannot tell by the voltage!

[skate2snow]

ok but so how do we differencing the two????

[kromosto]

somebody was saying about if it is "a" then ch5 else bh5 but dont know is this true or not volt cant be used to identify them because both ch5 and bh5 can do 434 mhz 2-3-3-7 @ 2.5 volts best way is to go and get mushkin black level 2 i think so you can know what you exactly get

[skate2snow]

no mushin /\/\II is way too much $$$$$$

[hatemi]

Forget the Pc 3500 and try to find some PC3200 or 3000 without the A. My guess is youll have much better odds in getting BH that way. Try to find ram with older revision cos they uesually have BH. But anyway its just a mater of luck and if you want guarranteed BH then you have to pay the prices OCZ and mushkin are asking for them:(

[skate2snow]

kingston return to BH5 too

[nutcase]

I just looked at my 2 sticks of Kingston HyperX PC3500 and these are the Numbers off it:

stick 1:

KHX3500/256
9905200-012.A00
1212889-2.5V

Chips are Marked D328DW-45 (so it has 4.5ns chips) and kingston name on them.

Stick 2:

KHX3500/256
9905200-020.A00
1122192-2.5V

Chips marked D328DW-50 (5ns) and Kingston Name on them.


So How do you tell what Chip Maker is on Them ?

[skate2snow]

its probably some BH5

[nutcase]

if it is, then this is the oddest memory I have ever owned :rolleyes:

On My Nf7 2.0, It is barely stable at210Mhz at 2-3-3-7 timings and 3.25V Vdimm

But on my P4C800-E it ran up to 235Mhz at 2-2-2-8 timings and 3.3V Vdimm...

Guess I will leave my OCZ Pc3200 in the NF7 as that stuff does 2-2-2-11 timings up to 235 FSB..

[skate2snow]

ya its the good choice P4 is better than AMD

[Stinger]

info khx3500/256
9905193-024.A01
1317778-2.6v
Ch5

[skate2snow]

whit your athlon its good to have CH5