Join me Luke, join the dark side.

[st0nedpenguin]

Yup, as you may have guessed from the title, I'm seriously considering moving over to the dark side.

This AMD rig has served me well, and given me a nice introduction to overclocking, but I think it's time for a change, and so it's also time for some advice. :D

I'm planning on getting a 2.4C and either an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe or an ABIT IC7-Max3, I'm leaning towards the ASUS at the moment, as I'm not too sure whether I want to take the chance of getting a really crappy Max3, but any suggestions are welcome.

Now that I have finally got me some BH-5, I would imagine that 5:4 is the way to go, so it's really just a CPU and motherboard that I need.

OK, now onto the questions.

1. Is there anything to look out for when picking up a 2.4C that I should be aware of, any steppings or product codes to look out for in particular?

2. What sort of overclock should I be looking at from an average 2.4c, on air with an SLK-947-U/80mm Tornado combination? (A terrible question I know, but I still have to ask)

3. What is the P4 motherboard situation like with regards to motherboard quality, is it anything like the lottery that is the NF7-S? Or do most of the boards perform similarly?

Also, any suggestions from fellow Britlanders as to where I can pick up a 2.4C would be muchly appreciated.

So come on fella's, get advising. :p:

[Dajo]

dunno m8 but maybe a 2,6 would fit you better. if you reach 300 fsb with the 2,4 wich isnt unlikely you 5:4 would be 480MHZ DDR and if you were to get a 2,6 and got it to 3,6 like the 2,4 you would have a memory speed of 440+ and it since your considering the ASUS which only has 2,85 vdimm if you not gonna mod it :D i doubt that you would get your OCZ to 480.... Just my 2 cents

GL with the setup

//DAJO

[st0nedpenguin]

The board will definitely be modded, whatever is needed basically, and the droop mod too, so voltages shouldn't be a problem, the only problem is cost basically, I can hopefully just scrape together the cash for a 2.4C by selling off chunks of this RIG, but a 2.6C would be pushing it. :(

[Dajo]

yea but the price diffrence is only £9,52 :D just pick a cheaper shipping

//DAJO

[st0nedpenguin]

I'm shooting for FSB primarily though, it's a kickback against my FSB quest on nForce2 I think. :D

Anyway, with enough voltage 240 should be do-able with this RAM, Liquid3D hit 240/2.85v with his. :eek:

[Ewok]

intel boards are far superior in quality to the amd/nvidia crap which is one of the main reasons i switched from amd.

id go for the asus as its a simple vdimm mod just like the nf7 one actually and thats all is needed.

i think 2.4c's are going higher because of the demand meaning a lot of higher end chips that just arent in demand have to be relabeled as 2.4's.

if you can you probly wanna find an SL6Z3 as these are 3.2EE's that failed some test and were relabeled as 2.4's and seem to be going very high at default voltage. stick to malay chips, these have a code starting with L and usually overclock the best i think.

[st0nedpenguin]

Yeah, it's the board quality that's annoying me right now, and the fact that a decent FSB is nigh on impossible on nForce2.

Thanks for the chip advice too mate, do you have any idea where I could pick up a decent chip?

[zakelwe]

I don't think I've seen a bad report on the Asus motherboard so they must be pretty consistent. I have had three and only the last has had poor voltage values ( relatively ), still overclocks well though.

I'd get the P4 from Komplett personally but they may not be the cheapest.

Regards

Andy

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by Ewok
if you can you probly wanna find an SL6Z3 as these are 3.2EE's that failed some test and were relabeled as 2.4's and seem to be going very high at default voltage. stick to malay chips, these have a code starting with L and usually overclock the best i think.
I think you are kind of misleading.....since all the SL6Z3s I have seen are from Costa Rica.

[st0nedpenguin]

So what's all the fuss about these M0 chips I keep hearing, are they really capable of 3.6GHz at stock voltage? And how would I identify one of them, is the M0 just in the product code somewhere?

[JNav89GT]

i'd go with the 2.6c
try to get the MO stepping and shoot for 3.6ghz+
with my 2.4C I think board limits my oc. With a 2.6C I don't think you'll max your board and will be closer to a sweet spot for your cpu and ram. Remember w/the intel you need to match your highest ram speed to the divider used vs fsb to get max performance. If you can run 300fsb but have to go to 3:2 to do it you would probably be faster running 285 at 5:4 and therein lies the benefit of the 2.6 ;)

[CSOFT]

If you really want to be on the darkside get a celeron :D

I got one until I get get a P4 in a couple days and its the darkside alright, the darkside of a used peace of asswhip :D 3Ghz and I almost broke 13,000 3Dmarks :D My new board goes up to 2.3V CPU and 3.3V ram so I might be testing that out :D

[st0nedpenguin]

I have my heart set on the 2.4C, I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm pretty damn persistent. :D

All I need now is to raise the cash. :(

[hatemi]

Welcome to the dark side:D And good luck eith your new system. I have been pretty damn satisfied with my decission to cahnge to Intel. Even tough my CPU could clock a bit better but its 3D Mark stable @3500 with 1.6V. Maeby need to flash in the older bios to get my Vcore mod working...

[st0nedpenguin]

My sights aren't set too high, about 3.6GHz will do. :D

But seriously, 3.2GHz or above and I'll be a very happy penguin, I just need something new to play with until the A-64 prices come down.

Another quick question though, driver related.

Would I be better off using the driver downloads direct from the mobo manufacturer, eg ASUS, or just getting them direct from Intel?

The last Intel board I had my hands on needed about 574 different driver downloads to get it up and running. :D

And will I need to be spending as long messing about with different BIOS', or can I just slap the latest one on there and fire it up?

Anything but the BIOS fiddling from the NF7-S...

[Soulburner]

The only driver you need for the board is the Chipset Software (unless you are running RAID then you need a driver for that obviously). I would get it from www.intel.com as the one on the CD is always outdated. Install that first thing after you get into the OS. Then you can continue with display etc. Otherwise without it the AGP sometimes won't function normally (4x vs 8x or not at all).

[st0nedpenguin]

Cheers Soul, sounds easy enough for me to manage I reckon. :D

[st0nedpenguin]

Ah, another quick Q, are there a whole load of revisions of the P4C800-E Deluxe, and if so, which is the best to aim for?

[hollywood]

Man...Get the 2.6C

I've got one heck of a cherry 2.6

She does 3.5 - 3.7 on air all the live long day. With good BH-5 like I've got, I'm running a 275 FSB on a 5:4 divider. It's THE sweet spot bro. Check the sig ;)

The 2.4 has been WAY overhyped in my humble opinion, as I've known MANY of my friends who've been lucky to break 3.2 Ghz on them. Remember...this is XtrmSystems...you only hear the success stories.

BTW...flying in the face of the popular dogma here, my 2.6C is a Phillipino, not a Costa OR a Malay.

Stepping is: SL6WS
Pack Date: 07/15/03

[st0nedpenguin]

Okay, you guys are on the way to persuading me, I'll just have to see how the prices work out when it comes to purchase time. :D

I did find one place selling the 2.8C for less than most 2.4C's though. :eek:

[Soulburner]

The 2.8 is a chip you do not want to run on air. Its multi of 14 leaves you with no good FSB/RAM combinations.

The 2.6 is the way to go if you have low vdimm options and not willing to do a volt mod.

The 2.4 is the way to go if you have some good BH5 and some juice to give them. It will always be better than the 2.6 if you can meet these criteria.

[luihed]

Get a 2.4c with the M0 stepping, P4c800, smd grabber and a 50k( ithink)vr...... tahts gonna be one fast rig especially if have BH-5 chip rams....... its not guaranteed but most of those m0 chips are hitting 3.6gs on air........ a 2.6c is great for people who doesnt wanna mod and use 3v on the vdimm, looks like your willing to do those so go with the 2.4c........ and did I mention they have crazy bandwidth?

[Nebulous]

Ahhh pengy, i feel the seduction of the dark side persuading me :hehe:

At least i have several things in my favor:
Twinmos BH-5's
TTGI520w psu

coupled with the P4 2.6 and depending if i need a vmod for the P4C800 Deluxe, i'm sure my ideal clock will be easily attainable :D

Let us embrace the darkness :toast:

:lol:

Soon young penguin, the circle will be complete.

[hatemi]

My mobo has been able to run 310FSB with 5/4 divider and 2.4C. And that was with 1.55V I think. A goog chip and BH-5@~3.3v can do wonders! Too bad mine isnt as good as the former owner had:(

[s e t h]

dudes listen up. the athlon64 at only 2.2ghz will match any p4 @ 3.6ghz for almost any task. the albatron board is cheap enough to make it only a bit more expensive than a p4 combo. if you hit 2.5 (almost possible on air) with the athlon64 or thereabouts you will kill just about any overclocked p4. not to mention that your rig will have some value in the years to come.

...wheeze...wheeze... save yourselves from the dark side...wheeze

[Soulburner]

Yes but that's a $400-450 processor vs a $170-180 processor. The Intel system will be a LOT cheaper.

[s e t h]

i dont know the dollar prices but the difference between a p4c800-dlx and an albatron kt800 will make up about half that difference if i'm not mistaken

[Soulburner]

4PCA3+ is only $135 or so and the IC7 is only $120. I still say the Intel system will be a lot cheaper even if you got the most expensive board.

[Tedinde]

if you hit 2.5 (almost possible on air) with the athlon64 or thereabouts you will kill just about any overclocked p4

Man just when i thought mine was fast, i gotta get a A64 now!!!!!

Isnt any fun anymore with intel. You just Crank the FSB up, i miss my amd OCing days.

This stable 24/7 with no hastles is just boaring!!!!! I miss the Via chipsets, HD corruption, Trying to cool the chip.

Just kidding. I've got 8 AMD F@H rigs in the basement OC'd to within an inch of their life!!!!

Been thinking about selling my setup and going the A64 route and MACH II.

[mdzcpa]

The real trouble with AMD64 right now is mobos. They all pretty much suck. They are too thin on features by today's standards, and far to finicky. For a bansi benching rig, I'd go AMD64. But, for a well rounded day to day system, AMD64 is a bit too unpolished for m tastes.

Next round of boards should help.

In the meantime, you can get a real screaming P4 system. It may no longer be the fastest, but a lot of performance can be had for the money. I like the 2.6 right now.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ewok]

ok it might be that al the SL6Z3's are costa rica so dont look for a malay one of them :P

as for this M0 stepping, im not sure where to look for the stepping on these boxes, and does anyone know if 3.0c's come with an M0 stepping as im looking at upgrading my 2.6 to a 3.0 for when my mach2 comes back, and where to find M0 on the box? i know the usual fpu/batch like L149A463-0726 shows the country and week but it doesnt show stepping (if it starts with L its a malay btw cos i dont think they print the country on the box anymore).

for the mb, you either want a P4C800-e or a p4c800-e deluxe depending if u want the extra deluxe features like raid and sound.

for the chip, ive found cpucity good because you can phone them and ask for the stepping/country etc that you want and if they have it then you can place an order on the webiste and the guy will send u the one u wanted and i dont know of any other shops in uk where you can get a specific chip. thats where im looking at getting my 3.0 from anyway. its also about the cheapest u can get in uk for cpu prices too (the 3.0 is £10 cheaper than at ocuk).

[cowpuppy]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
All I need now is to raise the cash. :(

You could always sell your (_]_) on the street corner to help raise some extra cash :D

Your not the only one thinking about intell these days with thier recent price drops. 2.8's@184.00 and a motherboard for anouther 106.00 and it would beat the crap out of my tired NF7-S.

It sounds like a good bang for the buck.

[st0nedpenguin]

Thanks for all the advice guys, and it's all been duly noted. :D

As long as everything follows through, no pun intended, my motherboard, CPU and older RAM are now sold, so the money should be sorted pretty soon, just leaving me with the ordering to get done, thanks for mentioning CPU City as well Ewok, I'll definitely give them a call.

As the board will be modded, and I finally have some BH-5 RAM, I think I'll go with the 2.4C, partnered with the modded P4C800-E Deluxe, crazy bandwidth is what is predicted, and that's just what I'm hoping for. :D

I had considered going down the A-64 route, but over here it would cost me more to buy an A-64 3200+ than it would cost me to buy the P4C/motherboard, and as it's going to be an everyday rig, I need something that has most of the wrinkles ironed out, so to speak, the P4 seems to be my best bet, and then I'll most likely put together an A-64 rig once the prices have dropped and the chipsets have matured a little.

And the best thing is, I don't even have to pimp myself to buy...

Hopefully...

:rotf:

[saaya]

a few weeks ago i would have said go for it, get a P4C or IC7, but now.... id say why not get an a64? cheaper and faster... and it has the kharma bonus ;) :D

[st0nedpenguin]

Quick Q again.

What sort of 3DMark2001 score should I expect from, say, a 3.2GHz 2.4C, with stock GPU clocks?

I get about 17.5k at the moment, just hoping it's around the same...

[hatemi]

I`ve gotten over 1400 with my 9600PRO slightly clocked and at @3400 so I wery much believe you can get at least what you used to:D And with canterwood you can use PAT with 5/4 divider so it scores even better;)

[st0nedpenguin]

Great, cheers bud, I just wanted to make sure that BF1942 runs nicely after the upgrade basically. :D

And don't even mention PAT to me, I'm gonna have some real fun figuring all that out. :p:

[st0nedpenguin]

Hokay, after a quick read around, it looks like 1.7v is about the safe limit for 24/7 operation on the P4, with good aricooling, am I right on this one?

Also, would it be worth picking up some SMA grabbers for the mod, instead of going the solder route? And if so, what sort of price am I looking at?

In a sick kind of way, I'm actually quite enjoying my P4 n00bness. :D

[cowpuppy]

Originally posted by hatemi
I`ve gotten over 1400 with my 9600PRO slightly clocked and at @3400 so I wery much believe you can get at least what you used to:D And with canterwood you can use PAT with 5/4 divider so it scores even better;)

Well maybe I better stay with what I got. No use going to the dark side if I would be going backwords. Guess I'll keep running this amd set up till she pukes for good and then get a A64.
curantly I get mid 19000 in 01 with no OC on the vid card on a 225x11 bus. Now if someone would tell me I would rip about 22,500 with all the same equipment and just a MB/cpu change., I might be preswaded to the dark side

[JeffPH]

this is why i love this forum nothing but pro's and con's of each side :)

Xtremesystems ROCKS!!!!

:banana:

[hatemi]

Originally posted by cowpuppy
Well maybe I better stay with what I got. No use going to the dark side if I would be going backwords. Guess I'll keep running this amd set up till she pukes for good and then get a A64.
curantly I get mid 19000 in 01 with no OC on the vid card on a 225x11 bus. Now if someone would tell me I would rip about 22,500 with all the same equipment and just a MB/cpu change., I might be preswaded to the dark side

Give me a 9800PRO and I`ll show you how much it scores. That 14000 was done with the dirtiest OS(had GF2MX, TNT2,9000pro and this 9600pro with the same install) and with some progs still running on the background...I still havent gotten to the point of realy testing what my sytem can realy do with W2000 sp2 and older Cats.

[CSOFT]

I thought about going with the A64 myself, but that don't leave a lot of upgrade path that I can see, and if I brake the CPU im going to cry, If I broke a P4 big deal, there way cheap now. My board only cost $109 (but I don't have much faith in an MSI :D )

All I got to do now is sit around and wait on my new credit card to get here in the mail then its prometia and p4 time :D

[Tedinde]

And don't even mention PAT to me, I'm gonna have some real fun figuring all that out.

I still got better mem scores with my IS7 over my IC7, I still cant figure it out after 6 months.

I should've kept my IS7.

All I got to do now is sit around and wait on my new credit card to get here in the mail then its prometia and p4 time

[Ewok]

u can get grabbers from rswww.com. search for smd test clip and they are £4.01 for 2

i think maplins do thembut cant find em on the site

[st0nedpenguin]

Cheers mate, I e-mailed cpucity, as long as I call before ordering, they'll guarantee stepping, here's hoping they have some tasty 2.4C's in over the weekend. :D

I was trying to see if Maplin had any 2.4C's in stock earlier, every time I hit the Processors link, the damn thing took down it's own copy of IE and whatever else it fancied, so I think I'll give them a miss CPU wise.

[cowpuppy]

Originally posted by hatemi
Give me a 9800PRO and I`ll show you how much it scores. That 14000 was done with the dirtiest OS(had GF2MX, TNT2,9000pro and this 9600pro with the same install) and with some progs still running on the background...I still havent gotten to the point of realy testing what my sytem can realy do with W2000 sp2 and older Cats.

Ok so what kinda scores would I be looking at then?
Can someone enlighten me about these devider ratios lets say I run a 300 fsb with a 5/4 devider whats that put my memory at? and a 5/3 also?
I have some KHX3500 sticks that ran at 240fsb with CL2-2-2-6 and I have some Corsair 3200 sticks that are rated CL2-2-2-6 also but I'm not sure what kind of fsb they will take. So wich processor would be best with a 5/4 ratio? 5/3?

[st0nedpenguin]

A 2.4C @ 300MHz FSB 5:4 would be 240MHz RAM, netting you a 3.6GHz CPU.

Guess what I'm hoping for. :D

[saaya]

300fsb /5 x4 = memory speed (240mhz)

other than 5/4 theres only 3/2 afaik. the 3.0 and 3.2s are good for 1:1 action , the 2.4 2.6 are good for 5:4 i think and the 2.8 for 3:2? sorry, dont know that much about P4s. all depends on what cooling u use!

[cowpuppy]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
A 2.4C @ 300MHz FSB 5:4 would be 240MHz RAM, netting you a 3.6GHz CPU.

2.4@3.6/300fsb Would that be doable with my Exos/DangerDen cooling system? And I was thinking about the P4P800 Asus as it peformes as well as the 875 chipset? I dont need all the extras except USB 2.0

What stepings are reaching 300fsb 2.4's?

[Ewok]

yes maplins website is probably THE worst store website ive ever used in my life, and thats now, u should have seen it a few months ago.

still undecided what to do with mine, i want 4ghz because that was the entire reason behind me buying a mach2.

my bh5 does 225fsb at 3.15v and so if i got a 3.0 to 4125 stable for everyday use i would then be at 220mem which is ok bu still 5 below my max.

this is why i originally got a 2.8 so that i could reach 4ghz and max out the memory as well (which at the time did more like 230-235fsb). the problem is a 2.8c is quite likely not to go to 4ghz, i had 2 of em and the most i mustered was 3.8. so a 3.0 should get me to 4ghz but unless it gets me closer to 4.2ghz im gonna be stuck on lower mem speed and its memory speed i need more than cpu speed. so its nice and awkward all round really.

[hatemi]

Originally posted by cowpuppy
2.4@3.6/300fsb Would that be doable with my Exos/DangerDen cooling system? And I was thinking about the P4P800 Asus as it peformes as well as the 875 chipset? I dont need all the extras except USB 2.0

What stepings are reaching 300fsb 2.4's?

I think its doable if you get a good chip basically. But still for 2.4 I would get a canterwood mobo cos they can use PAT with 5/4 divider. With springdale you can get it to work only at 1/1 ratio.

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
Hokay, after a quick read around, it looks like 1.7v is about the safe limit for 24/7 operation on the P4, with good aricooling, am I right on this one?

Also, would it be worth picking up some SMA grabbers for the mod, instead of going the solder route? And if so, what sort of price am I looking at?

In a sick kind of way, I'm actually quite enjoying my P4 n00bness. :D
I would not run over 1.6v daily on air cooling. PAT is simple = its always on, and it makes your system faster.

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by cowpuppy
Ok so what kinda scores would I be looking at then?
Can someone enlighten me about these devider ratios lets say I run a 300 fsb with a 5/4 devider whats that put my memory at? and a 5/3 also?
I have some KHX3500 sticks that ran at 240fsb with CL2-2-2-6 and I have some Corsair 3200 sticks that are rated CL2-2-2-6 also but I'm not sure what kind of fsb they will take. So wich processor would be best with a 5/4 ratio? 5/3?
Just do some simple math. 300x.8=240.

And there is no 5:3.

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
Quick Q again.

What sort of 3DMark2001 score should I expect from, say, a 3.2GHz 2.4C, with stock GPU clocks?

I get about 17.5k at the moment, just hoping it's around the same...
At 3.2Ghz and a good 9800Pro I say 21k. At 300 5:4 2-2-2-5 23k.

[SoulEdge]

Originally posted by Soulburner
At 3.2Ghz and a good 9800Pro I say 21k. At 300 5:4 2-2-2-5 23k.

That sounds a little optimistic. The score in my sig was a 2.4c@300 5:4 2-5-2-2. The radeon was a bit on the weak side though. I guess you could pull 23k if the 9800 were better than average but you can't really bet on that.

[st0nedpenguin]

Thanks again for teh advice peoples, the hunt for a nice 2.4C is now officially on.

[Firelord-OCHW]

Originally posted by Soulburner
At 3.2Ghz and a good 9800Pro I say 21k. At 300 5:4 2-2-2-5 23k.

Thats not far off but if you check my sig it will give you a rough idea of what to expect with a kinda of but not as extreme as most people here type rig :D

[st0nedpenguin]

Just what I was after Firelord. :D

What sort of scores do you get with default GPU clocks?

[tc_overclocker]

I've got a friend who has a 2.4C at 3.6GHz using only 1.6v on his ABIT IC7- Max3.... still trying to prize it outta his lil' fingers

[st0nedpenguin]

Originally posted by tc_overclocker
I've got a friend who has a 2.4C at 3.6GHz using only 1.6v on his ABIT IC7- Max3.... still trying to prize it outta his lil' fingers

Join me tc, join the dark side.

[Firelord-OCHW]

Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
Just what I was after Firelord. :D

What sort of scores do you get with default GPU clocks?

This is the best I did card stock recently (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7039414)

Will do some more when I get watercooled :)

[st0nedpenguin]

Lubberly, looks like as long as I can hit 3.2GHz, my gaming won't be affected.

Time to pray for a good chip then...:D

[Firelord-OCHW]

3.2GHz for a P4 2.4C should be p!55 :D

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by SoulEdge
That sounds a little optimistic. The score in my sig was a 2.4c@300 5:4 2-5-2-2. The radeon was a bit on the weak side though. I guess you could pull 23k if the 9800 were better than average but you can't really bet on that.
At 300 5:4 2-2-2-5 it takes about 480-490ish core clock on the Radeon for a 23k run. I've seen it done before. :cool:

[cowpuppy]

"Luke, Luke I see the light and I'm sticking with my AMD"

Back on the bus 230x11

[st0nedpenguin]

The 2.4C arrived yesterday, which was a surprise, at 7:30, which didn't please my mother too much. :D

Just waiting on the mobo and cooler now, tomorrow seems so far away...

[hatemi]

Time seems slow down when your waiting...Hope its a good chip:D

[st0nedpenguin]

Being at work isn't helping matters much, at least if I was at home I could knock off a few hours by having a nap. :D

[althes]

Cant wait to see the results

[climbski]

Originally posted by Soulburner
At 300 5:4 2-2-2-5 it takes about 480-490ish core clock on the Radeon for a 23k run. I've seen it done before. :cool:

Yep:D