Note for those running heavy oc'ed Quadfire 4890

[LardArse]

Whem making the Classified I did take precaution to increase trace thickness for the 4 PCIE slots for the 3 groups of power. As before when overclocking quad fire 3870 I found they eat a lot through pcie slots.

This way the trace does not burn up, or restrain cards oc in quad fire.
However as there are only 2 +12v yellow wires, the connectors thus get hot at the 24pin ATX.

I myself have melted the 24 pin ATX connector when running 4 x 4890 oc. I dunno why these cards draw so much from slots, the nvidia cards dont seem to :D

Anyways if you are one of those quad fire guys this may help you.

http://f.imagehost.org/0096/Image001_10.jpg (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0096/Image001_10)


http://f.imagehost.org/0043/Image002.jpg (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0043/Image002)

This should fix you up.

[Kabauterman]

Was that the reason why Kevins Board burned?

[LardArse]

Yes, the 2 yellow wires of the 24pin only power the slots and just one or tow low current linear power regs

[dinos22]

nice one
kev could have used that advice heh
his 24pin burnt just as you describe :yepp:

[K404]

Thanks for the idea Peter :)

I knew that with PCI-E2.0 power distriution and Q-SLI/ CF-X, that kind of current draw would distress boards eventually.

[dpa]

blah, I really dont want to solder on my board....

working as a charm at 1000Mhz * 4 and 1.45 * 4.. :D

[[XC] gomeler]

Thanks for the heads up Shamino, would hate to burn out my $400 beauty :)

[Patch]

Pardon my inexperience, but I'm gonna give this a go and have 2 questions:

1) That is a regular molex connection you're soldering on there, correct?

2) Do you need to remove the 2 yellow 12V wires from your PSU 24 pin ATX connector when doing this? Or plug it in as is and have both the 24 pin and your mod supplying power to the trace?

[LardArse]

no just solder , yes molex connectors, dont do nothing to the origianl Power supply, but other than 24pin plug in the molex of your psu too.

[Patch]

Thank you.

[carpo93]

this mod can work on other mobos?

[LardArse]

this mod can work on other mobos?

yes though i dont know how thick the trace for +12v to pcies on other boards are so its best to solder behind the slots themselves.

[carpo93]

tried on m4a79-t deluxe, but the mobo seem died:shrug:

i think there is a sort of protection

[Vivi]

the dangers of modding :?

[hipro5]

tried on m4a79-t deluxe, but the mobo seem died:shrug:

i think there is a sort of protection

You must have done something wrong then... ;)
The 24 pin connector is UNIVERSAL for ALL platforms and it uses the EXACT SAME PINOUTS.... :)

[carpo93]

You must have done something wrong then... ;)
The 24 pin connector is UNIVERSAL for ALL platforms and it uses the EXACT SAME PINOUTS.... :)

you can be right

but i think the mobo has an overload protection, so istantly swich off:)

[LardArse]

you can be right

but i think the mobo has an overload protection, so istantly swich off:)

its your psu, some psu diffrent +12v rails connect together it protects, find the same +12v rail as the atx (by using continuity check on the yellow pin and of the atx) or a different psu

[carpo93]

ok but the mobo now is death

i tried with other psu, but it gave me a black screen and all the fan on

[LardArse]

uhmm, did your ATX connector on your MB happen to face the other direction for the locking clip? :D

[carpo93]

yes, but i do the rigth mod for my direction

[G H Z]

I myself have melted the 24 pin ATX connector when running 4 x 4890 oc.

Were the cards on air?

[carpo93]

someone has the pci-e electric scheme?

[LardArse]

only air man

http://h.imagehost.org/0986/peg.jpg (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0986/peg)

[runmc]

Lardy - :D

Would this mod be of any benefit if you were only using 2-3 4890?

[carpo93]

only air man

http://h.imagehost.org/0986/peg.jpg (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0986/peg)

thx

i'll do my own mod:D

[carpo93]

Lardy - :D

Would this mod be of any benefit if you were only using 2-3 4890?

2 i don't know

3 yes

[LardArse]

Lardy - :D

Would this mod be of any benefit if you were only using 2-3 4890?

Runny, just use fingers and touch the yellow wires close to the atx if they get hot during 3d loads, then it may pay off.

[Riska]

My Amd Phenom II setup with 4x4670 gfx heavly oced melted the 2 atx 12v pins in the atx socket so it is not only for the big ati cards

[STEvil]

I'm surprised the motherboard designers are so inept as to think you could pull 250w @ 12v through only two wires... let alone the poor connection they have inside the connector.

They should start adding a PCI-E 6 or 8 pin connector near the PCI-E slots.

[LardArse]

I'm surprised the motherboard designers are so inept as to think you could pull 250w @ 12v through only two wires... let alone the poor connection they have inside the connector.

They should start adding a PCI-E 6 or 8 pin connector near the PCI-E slots.

its tricky for PSUs from a particular but big OEM where its pcies are a different rail from the ATX and protects if they are in connection. Unless the atx 12v is not routed and then you will need to plug in an extra pcie con and its not optional anymore. molexes may be more compatibile, makes the board look old though

[K404]

Iv known for a while that increasing GPU loads was eventually gonna become a problem for mobo makers. I was hoping there was going to be an ATX revision to deal with this before now.

OR.... bodged solution.. as mentioned above a PCI-E power plug on the mobo

[STEvil]

its tricky for PSUs from a particular but big OEM where its pcies are a different rail from the ATX and protects if they are in connection. Unless the atx 12v is not routed and then you will need to plug in an extra pcie con and its not optional anymore. molexes may be more compatibile, makes the board look old though

Molexes will still be on the same "rail" as a PCI-E connector internally unless the particular PSU manufacturer is only putting that protect circuit on two or three of the virtual rails..

[LardArse]

Iv known for a while that increasing GPU loads was eventually gonna become a problem for mobo makers. I was hoping there was going to be an ATX revision to deal with this before now.

OR.... bodged solution.. as mentioned above a PCI-E power plug on the mobo

or cards can just draw their input for gpu memory power from the pcie connector which means 2 may not be enough. 1000+mhz, 2+v, 4GBs etcetc,

[LardArse]

Molexes will still be on the same "rail" as a PCI-E connector internally unless the particular PSU manufacturer is only putting that protect circuit on two or three of the virtual rails..

well the big powers usually have 2 rails and each one 2 virtual rails by ocp

[FatAlbert]

Dear Lard ;)

I wanna make a post earlier but ??

When your thread up I thought about mod what you made couple years ago. PCI Express Current Booster Mod (Click! Photos down (http://vr-zone.com/articles/-vr-zone-s-pci-express-current-booster-mod/3101.html?doc=3101) ) It's work with PCIE 2.0 ? Maybe it's another "Note for those running heavy oc'ed Quadfire 4890" :D

and second. Maybe atx mod work with only with couple psu's ?

[Kabauterman]

here are my pictures of the Mod:

http://www.abload.de/img/classified-quadcfx-mod96xr.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/classified-quadcfx-modd1kw.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/classified-quadcfx-modn68v.jpg

works fine! thanks Sham

[STEvil]

It would probably be better to do the mod using a PCI-E power connector from a dead GPU because technically you are only adding a single +12v supply line by using a 4-pin molex connector.

[Kabauterman]

If u uses a PCIe Connector you add also only one 12V line, or do you think that every wire of that PCIe Connector has ists own 12V Lane :)

[STEvil]

If u uses a PCIe Connector you add also only one 12V line, or do you think that every wire of that PCIe Connector has ists own 12V Lane :)

I want you to look closely at the picture posted and this picture and tell me the difference:

http://static.erodov.com/reviews/guide/pci-e-connector/pci-e-power-connector-2.jpg

[LardArse]

Stevil is right but not all power supplies can power up with the +12v of both rails joined

[carpo93]

here's my own mod to the pci-ex

it's the same of shamino mod, put is without soldering point, and it works fine on m4a79-t:p:

http://forum.hwproject.net/imagehosting/21084a6dcaa802ae4.jpg

[Riska]

about the Pci-e layout ?
Can i just trace the 12v pins out and solder wires to them?

[Gunslinger]

Completed this mod today, only now am wondering if I should have used heavier guage wires. :confused:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/mgorius/002-4.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/mgorius/003-3.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/mgorius/001-6.jpg

[BaRaN]

can we mode on the 24pin socket of power?

http://www.motherboards.org/images/articles/guides/24-pin.jpg

if the power have cable management we can use it to mode or not it should be fix on the board

[railmeat]

I'm surprised the motherboard designers are so inept as to think you could pull 250w @ 12v through only two wires... let alone the poor connection they have inside the connector.

They should start adding a PCI-E 6 or 8 pin connector near the PCI-E slots.

the old soket 939 dfi ultra d had a molex and a floppy power connectors solderd to there boards,is this why they did that...for sli power reasons?:shrug:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/dfi_nf4ultra-d.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/dfi_nf4ultra-d.jpg

good thread!

[Riska]

Jep thats why to stablelise
the pci-e

[Neuromancer]

can we mode on the 24pin socket of power?

http://www.motherboards.org/images/articles/guides/24-pin.jpg

if the power have cable management we can use it to mode or not it should be fix on the board

I would not mod on the PSU 24 pin because you are still sending all that current through just the 2 pins of the port. (Which is where it burns up if I understand correctly).

Make sure your traces can handle the load as mentioned earlier in the thread. Do not want to just move the damage further along the line...

[Splave]

Apparently im retard
so do you plug the molex connector into your psu then or just leave it as it is ?

[Riska]

Yes you plug the molex into the psu the mod is made så the 2 single 12v wires get more kobber to handle the more power to feed the 4 gfx cards

[Theorw]

the old soket 939 dfi ultra d had a molex and a floppy power connectors solderd to there boards,is this why they did that...for sli power reasons?:shrug:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/dfi_nf4ultra-d.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/bf2nut/dfi_nf4ultra-d.jpg

good thread!

YEP!!
They put these floppy connectors for added current and added stability when 2 power hungry cards are installed.
These connectors were also put in my previous lp dk p45 t2rs plus and also to my current LP DK X48 T2RS! just next to each PCIE slot!
I made a a custom dual floppy connector and plugged it in and i have 2 rock stable 4850s @1,4 volts each!:)

But i dont think well be seing floppys anymore...:(

I also recall my P35 DS4 having a 4 pin molex for crossfire stability...
But high end mobos today ignore these ways of extra power...

[jcool]

But high end mobos today ignore these ways of extra power...

Well, not all of them ;)

See http://nx.i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/dfi/UT_X58_T3EH8/resized/dfix58_v1.jpg

What do you see? ;)

[BaRaN]

I would not mod on the PSU 24 pin because you are still sending all that current through just the 2 pins of the port. (Which is where it burns up if I understand correctly).

Make sure your traces can handle the load as mentioned earlier in the thread. Do not want to just move the damage further along the line...


there is no different between plug on the 24 socket or main board


if u plug on the main board the it connect to 24 pin power

if u plug on the power 24 it connect to main board to!!

can u say what is different between this?!?

[Theorw]

Well, not all of them ;)

See http://nx.i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/dfi/UT_X58_T3EH8/resized/dfix58_v1.jpg

What do you see? ;)

Well u are right about this board...
But its the exception on the rule...
And of course its DFI AGAIN!:)

[jcool]

Yeah.. it's also my favourite of all X58's TBH. The classified may OC higher, but what you get for your money with the DFI UT is awesome.

[Splave]

^ people running quadfire want to clock higher as they are either benching to the tits or are stupid for thinking it would be good for gaming.

[STEvil]

there is no different between plug on the 24 socket or main board


if u plug on the main board the it connect to 24 pin power

if u plug on the power 24 it connect to main board to!!

can u say what is different between this?!?

The proper way to do the mod is to add it to the board (either to the PCI-E slots directly or the backside of the 24pin ATX connector). Adding the current capacity to the 24pin connector of the PSU will limit you to the electrical efficiency of the pins which connect the PSU to the motherboard.

Ever seen a burned molex connector?

[davidm71]

I have a 759 Classified and I'm planning on getting a few nv300s when they come out. But I was wondering if I don't do this mod will my board melt down? I thought this board could handle three to four way sli? I mean why the F did I pay 5 bills for this board? Feel kind of let down by Evga here if this is true?

Not only that I'm hearing reports on the Evga forums that the latest 191.07 drivers and win 7 is burning out the pci-e lanes for some people. Maybe Evga should come out with a 24 pin adapter that goes in between the plug and the psu with supplemented grounding and power without having to solder your board? I'm not good with soldering.

This news bites it hard!

[AndreYang]

this issue should be only for ATI multi cards. NV multi cards doesn't need to mod.

[davidm71]

this issue should be only for ATI multi cards. NV multi cards doesn't need to mod.

Seems like the issue is with the motherboard not the videocards! Anyhow can someone please explain what the issue is specifically?

Thank you.

[TheKarmakazi]

Seems like the issue is with the motherboard not the videocards! Anyhow can someone please explain what the issue is specifically?

Thank you.

Just read the thread.... its all explained

[road-runner]

Seems like when designing it they would have put molex connectors on the board next to the PCIE slots for the slots... :shrug:

[davidm71]

Just read the thread.... its all explained

I read the thread and from what I can gather the problem is that the Classified 759 has a power problem with more than 2 cards. You say doesn't affect nvidia cards but from what I've read on the Evga forums that isn't necesarily true. What's going to happen when nv300 comes out? I just would like someone to say don't worry not a real issue. It's kind of upsetting news.

[Riska]

It is because when you run with 4 ait cards they draw to much amp tru the atx connector så the 12v wires vil get warm an maybe short circut

[davidm71]

It is because when you run with 4 ait cards they draw to much amp tru the atx connector så the 12v wires vil get warm an maybe short circut

What about three way SLI and a physX card? What I would really like to know what is the max wattage the Classified 759 can handle? Anyhow since the release of the Ati 5870 line, nVidia cards now draw more power than ATI cards especially in Windows 7...

Thanks.

[Gunslinger]

What about three way SLI and a physX card? What I would really like to know what is the max wattage the Classified 759 can handle? Anyhow since the release of the Ati 5870 line, nVidia cards now draw more power than ATI cards especially in Windows 7...

Thanks.

It's already been said a couple of times, this only applies to 3 and 4 card ATI set ups, it does not apply to Nvidia no matter the configurations SLI, Tri SLI, Tri SLI w/physx card

[davidm71]

It's already been said a couple of times, this only applies to 3 and 4 card ATI set ups, it does not apply to Nvidia no matter the configurations SLI, Tri SLI, Tri SLI w/physx card

I'm sorry but I don't believe it. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't eventually. I've studied the power consumption of both nVidia and Ati cards and most of the time nVidia cards suck more juice though I'm not sure about through the pci-e slot. What I do know is that there have been reports about Win 7 cranking up the power consumption through the video cards more than before and that some people with the 759 Classified and the latest 191.07 WHQL nvidia drivers have done near permanent damage to their motherboards. Though I'm only speculating and have no concrete evidence of what is going nor has it happened to me, I just would like to have all the facts before I plug away three - four video cards. Hopefully the next generation of 40nm nv300 cards will be more power efficient. Until then I'm going to play it safe.

Thanks.

[Thraxz]

I'm sorry but I don't believe it. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't eventually. I've studied the power consumption of both nVidia and Ati cards and most of the time nVidia cards suck more juice though I'm not sure about through the pci-e slot. What I do know is that there have been reports about Win 7 cranking up the power consumption through the video cards more than before and that some people with the 759 Classified and the latest 191.07 WHQL nvidia drivers have done near permanent damage to their motherboards. Though I'm only speculating and have no concrete evidence of what is going nor has it happened to me, I just would like to have all the facts before I plug away three - four video cards. Hopefully the next generation of 40nm nv300 cards will be more power efficient. Until then I'm going to play it safe.

Thanks.

You're absolutely right about this. I've just burned up two pins of my PSU's 24 pin connector in my e760 with SLI GTX480's.... stock. This happened on two different PSU's now a, 1200w Silverstone and a 800W Tagan. I'll be doing this mod shortly. /gravedigger

[STEvil]

Burned pins is an issue with the connector, not the board.

Thats not to say adding the mod wont help the board of course.

[Thraxz]

That doesn't make sense really. Because I've been running this board and PSU combination for MONTHS with no issue. Suddenly when two high power draw GPUs get attached, pins start melting... I don't think it's a 'connector issue'. If it were, then I'd have had melting pins long ago, either with the two 5870s or with the 5870/5970 combination it handled before.

The power draw is way out of the connector spec, which is a power management issue between the mobo and GPU (where are the two pulling their power from).

[STEvil]

You added more power draw through the pins by adding the high power GPU's. The pins have an effective contact area and pressure. If you draw too much power through the (rather poor) connection then heat builds up due to resistance and poor contact area/pressure.

If you had that problem in the board (which is what this thread is about) it would be catching fire or burning traces rather than pins.


You know what I wish PC's (motherboards, video cards, PSU's) had? Screw type terminals like this, or like you find on a lot of car audio amplifiers: http://www.robotroom.com/DualFan/FanDrivers.jpg

[Rippthrough]

You know what I wish PC's (motherboards, video cards, PSU's) had? Screw type terminals like this, or like you find on a lot of car audio amplifiers: http://www.robotroom.com/DualFan/FanDrivers.jpg


I actually did something similar years back when they'd just started adding external power supplies to some agp boards - my card at the time didn't have one and would occasionally fall over due to burning a pin or two in the AGP slot - I drilled in from the side behind the problem contacts using an endmill in a dremel (flat end to help prevent drilling through the contact itself), and then tapped them all for allen headed grub screws - seemed to prevent the burning problem, and you can add more power by bringing a feed from a molex down over the grubscrew with a ring terminal and securing with a nut. (or just use a normal bolt/cap head instead of a grubscrew, but I didn't have one handy).

If it's only a couple of traces like mine was then thumbscrews/old mobo standoffs would be faster for fitting/removing the card.
Those with better soldering kit than my clunky old 30w soldering iron with an end the size of your thumb could probably solder straight to the pin?

[eclypse]

So this is not from the same problem?? http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=536713 The man was using 3 480s i believe.

[STEvil]

no, its a poor connection at the 24pin connector. It is not a problem of the PSU not able to provide enough power or the board not able to transport the power through its power plane to the PCI-E slots.

[Biffa]

So basically you are saying that the 24 pin connector was never designed to handle this amount of power draw on the 12v lines?

Is that why more modern tri and quad gpu (7+ slots) boards have now come out with extra molex connectors and specifically saying in the product description that the reason they have added extra molex connections is for high end multi gpu setups.

I know for sure that problem isn't restricted to EVGA products, Asus products like the P6T7 have the same problem with melting 24pin connectors.

[STEvil]

basically

[Biffa]

New P6T7 rev2 has an extra molex now.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/BiffaZ/weebeastie/P1100085.jpg

[Panther_Seraphi]

Considering the cards have their own power supply from the PSU im surprised they have to pull so much from the board.

I wonder if PCI-SIG are taking notice of this and may do something about it?

[STEvil]

doubt it.

If they had any clue about how to make a standard we wouldnt have ~8 different power connectors to do one thing: deliver power. Realistically we only need about 3.

[Rock&Roll]

My classified just burned my 24-pin connection. Was working fine yesterday. Go to boot up today, no go. Funny thing is, I'm only using a single GTX480. Nothing compared to the power draw that quadfire would pull. Ran fine for months. Then I added a X-FI HD card to my system last week. Maybe that extra 1A was enough to put it over the edge???

In any case, I'm RMAing. Talking to EVGA tech support, I got word that they expect to be releasing a PCI-E card that essentially does what this mod does. Within a month or two they said.

[STEvil]

pci-e power board is a good idea

[SBB]

In any case, I'm RMAing. Talking to EVGA tech support, I got word that they expect to be releasing a PCI-E card that essentially does what this mod does. Within a month or two they said.

Anyone else reminded of the OCZ ram booster? ;)

[hitek420]

Anyone else reminded of the OCZ ram booster? ;)

A local PC chain shop here has one that has been on the shelf for years, I took it up to the counter once to check the price on it and it's not even in their system anymore.

I am tempted to go make an offer on it just to have, :rofl: