ASUS Rampage II Extreme VS EVGA E759 CLASSIFIED LIMITED EDITION

[Tuxmask75]

Hi, Ive been running an asus Rampage II extreme for awhile now,, i love this board! i wont go deep into overclock details but it runs nicely.
I7 965 EE 4.02 GHZ and 12 GB kingston ram at 2009MHZ 8 8 8 24 1T

Anyways Ive just ordered an EVGA E759 CLASSIFIED LIMITED EDITION
and i feel i may regret it,,
main reason for the upgrade was to fit 3 XFX GTX 285 Black editions into the Cosmos S case,,

The RE and other boards that ive looked at, they're PCI express slots are just positioned to low causing the 3ed card to not fit properly in most towers,, ( card hangs over the bottom)
which sucks. really didn't care to upgrade the motherboard or change the case, but changing the case is out of the question, it just looks great!

correct me if im wrong,,,
but Ive been reading on multiple sites that the NF200 chip introduces latency with the communication of the CPU to the GPUs causing frame rate drops,
by adding an extra step in the communication process. is this the case for the E759?

i'm not sure but current graphic cards do not support true 16 x 16 x 16 transfer rates yet anyways..
hnmmmm but thinking that the E759 may run later cards better than what the RE or other motherboards without the NF200 chip will be able to do later,,
kinda a bit of future proofing huh?
probibly by the time we get some new cards, im sure they'll have some better motherboards as well.

I'm wondering if anyone owns or owned both boards and would share there experience with benchmarks or even frame rate differences noticed when switching boards.

P.S... still have time to cancel the order,,,

[jcniest5]

There's already a thread on this forum regarding both versions of the Classified. The extra latency introduces with the NF200 chipset isn't that big of a deal. It's only 1-3% of hit, so no one can really tell with the naked eyes.

[Tuxmask75]

There's already a thread on this forum regarding both versions of the Classified. The extra latency introduces with the NF200 chipset isn't that big of a deal. It's only 1-3% of hit, so no one can really tell with the naked eyes.

really? thanks alot.
couldnt locate it in the search. however i did find the unofficial thread for the CLASSIFIED.

[kpablo]

The extra latency that add with the NF200 is compensated with the true 16x on all 3 PCI Express slots.

[Leeghoofd]

I thought the nf200 version was better with triple SLI setups ?

[Tuxmask75]

Hey can the nf200 chip be bypassed perhaps with a jumper?

[Alchemy1]

No.

[Tuxmask75]

I have yet another few questions,,
i know ill be getting a small hit in the frame rate department, i dont mind this.
but id like to know from some of you who use this motherboard,,
have you noticed any lag with gameplay?
Maybe like a slower response time type effect?
you know similar to what you get with monitor response times?

How about CPU and ram performance? is this effected by the NF200 chip?

[jcniest5]

I have yet another few questions,,
i know ill be getting a small hit in the frame rate department, i dont mind this.
but id like to know from some of you who use this motherboard,,
have you noticed any lag with gameplay?
Maybe like a slower response time type effect?
you know similar to what you get with monitor response times?

How about CPU and ram performance? is this effected by the NF200 chip?

The NF200 should not affect how the CPU computes...video-wise, if anything at all, the extra latency wouldn't even be noticeable by naked eyes.

[Tuxmask75]

http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/146-Foxconn-Blood-RAGE-X58-Page-9.aspx
just found this here review,, not sure what to think at the moment,
don't know if its due to the NF200 chip or something else. like less memory slots on the bloodrage.
i know the bloodrage is one hell of a board though... i guess all that extra gold in the CLASSIFIED didnt help much huh?,,,, lol

id still really like to see a comparison to the rampage 2 xtreme,
been searching half the night and all of this morning.

[bluehaze]

In my experience the Classified scores 1000 less in Vantage runs clock for clock with other boards. I don't know why this is, it's not just the NF200 chip because I have the 760 version without the NF200. It's kind of disappointing, with my UD5 I score 24k with 260's Sli and i7 920@ 3.8ghz Ram at 1600mhz. On Classified I score 24k with 4.2ghz and 2000mhz Ram everything else the same. There is something mucking up the VGA performance for sure, just don't know what it is...

[Tuxmask75]

Hey Bluehaze thanks for the info, seems everywhere i go for reviews and such has pretty much the same resalts.

Decided to keep the Rampage 2 after all... seems to have more features and overclocks enough for what i need.

Just finished modding the Cosmos S case by drilling new holes to move the motherboard mounting screws up about half an inch. (1 PCIE slot worth)
Worked out nicely...
Probably gana have to send the EVGA back when it gets here,
A shame really. looks like a nice board, but 450 dollars isn't worth it offers for the average user.

On the otherhand i could build a new rig and do some comparasons,,,than ebay it or something just for laughs.
I take this board as a teaser for when we will have true 3 way SLI board without the help of some chip that splits lanes.

also i plan to get 3 SSDs to run in raid 0 and from the EVGA specs it seems the board only has 300 MB/s transfer rates.
maybe thats per SATA connection? can anyone confirm this?
hnmm ahh well, it was fun researching this board while it lasted lol

p.s. came across some other sites that showed people having trouble with different PSU units and this EVGA

[dejanh]

In my experience the Classified scores 1000 less in Vantage runs clock for clock with other boards. I don't know why this is, it's not just the NF200 chip because I have the 760 version without the NF200. It's kind of disappointing, with my UD5 I score 24k with 260's Sli and i7 920@ 3.8ghz Ram at 1600mhz. On Classified I score 24k with 4.2ghz and 2000mhz Ram everything else the same. There is something mucking up the VGA performance for sure, just don't know what it is...

#1 - The CPU score barely affects the overall Vantage score, especially extra 400MHz of CPU speed per core. The DRAM speed makes zero difference. You could be running 1067MHz DRAM for all intents and purposes to the same effect.

#2 - Classified is not optimized for performance right out of the box. It is a tweaker's board and it is meant to be treated as such. You will need to tweak a lot of settings before you will match (and indeed surpass) the performance coming from pretty much any other board. Trust me, I've owned both boards for a while though eventually sold the R2E. Now I own the Classified and R2G.

#3 - For an XE processor Classified will be better.

#4 - The PSU problems are prevalent with pretty much every X58 board. It is rare that people get this problem but it does exist. R2E to this day is plagued by the same problem (cold boot/no start).

[Tuxmask75]

#4 -this is so true,
no longer having the cold start issues via bios update for RE.
but i really dread waiting for these valuable bios updates with each new technology leap.
im sure the CLASSIFIED is nice and stable about now. but still its annoying to think about the waiting for an update.
hey how much you get for your RE2 anyways? did you ebay it?
guess ill mess around with the CLASSIFIED to see if i can get it to surpass the RE,,,
if so than its a keeper. but an expensive one at that, lol
for me benchmarks aren't to important, its more the real world applications like 3D studio and mudbox.

[bluehaze]

#2 - Classified is not optimized for performance right out of the box. It is a tweaker's board and it is meant to be treated as such. You will need to tweak a lot of settings before you will match (and indeed surpass) the performance coming from pretty much any other board. Trust me, I've owned both boards for a while though eventually sold the R2E. Now I own the Classified and R2G.



I used to think the same thing but i've tweaked and tweaked and can't close the gap in Vantage between UD5 and Classified which now leads me to believe it is something else.

I'm open to suggestions though...have tweaked all mem timings as tight as they can go, strap as low as it can go, highest Uncore I can run, Highest qpi speed. What am I missing?

[Tuxmask75]

Hey Dejanh, this may be a bit much to ask but you have any bench test screens laying around for the 2 boards,
if not, how far were you able to push the RE and the EC?

[bluehaze]

#4 -this is so true,
no longer having the cold start issues via bios update for RE.
but i really dread waiting for these valuable bios updates with each new technology leap.
im sure the CLASSIFIED is nice and stable about now. but still its annoying to think about the waiting for an update.
hey how much you get for your RE2 anyways? did you ebay it?
guess ill mess around with the CLASSIFIED to see if i can get it to surpass the RE,,,
if so than its a keeper. but an expensive one at that, lol
for me benchmarks aren't to important, its more the real world applications like 3D studio and mudbox.


Don't let me dissuade you from buying the board, it is a very nice board and undeniably the best as far as overclocking and stability are concerned and in real world you'll never notice the difference in VGA I mean it only equates to 2-3 fps at best it's just a nitpick of mine and a few others. For the money I would like the board to be perfect which to me means best performance in both VGA and CPU/Memory.

Perhaps there has to be a compromise with VGA to achieve the overclockability of the board. I know PCIE ties in with high bclk but I don't know enough about it to understand it all. Regardless it is still undeniably the best overclocking board currently available.

I do however think if your not big into benching that the board is kind of a waste because the overclocking is the biggest selling point and even at that the board won't boot over 222 bclk just like all the rest, it only achieves the high bclks via overclocking after already having booted into Windows via Eleet set FSB or whatever you choose. So for a 24/7 board there is really not much advantage to the Classified.

[Tuxmask75]

Don't worry Bluehaze your not dissuading me from the board,
The Cosmos S quick case mod only cost me 4 washers to even out the low spots of where some of the new holes were drilled
and couple of nuts for the backs of the mounting screws to keep them from spinning,
much better than spending 450 on something just a little more powerfull just to do tripple SLI for where it fits in the case.

just wish the RE had EVGA's PCI express layout. even with that the regular PCI slot gets coverd when doing tripple SLI.
seems all the X85 boards layouts are pretty bad,especially since they dont have a PCI slot thats not coverd up if u have tripple sli.
i have a Creative Xfi Fatality pro or whatever the name is and i find it better than the newer versions that fit in the Express 1x slot.
i wont be able to use it pretty soon, really loved its front pannel.

Its still up in the air on weather or not i should get the money back without opening the box on the Classified.
Or just build it anyways just to see whats up,,, man the choices!

My bain is telling me to use $ $ $ $ on something else! like the 3 OCZ 120GB Summit SSD's
Seems the urge to build the beast is overpowering the brain with thems OCZs ! i think they run around 389.00 a piece
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227450
i think the Asus RE is limited at 600 something MBs for hard disk transfer. and 3 of the OCZs will fit the bill perfect with there
Read 220MB/s and Write 200MB/s ,,, man im drooling just thinking about them in Raid 0,

[bluehaze]

Yea, I bought an Intel x25-m 160gb for this new build and it's insane! SSD is a far bigger upgrade than anything else i've upgraded in the last 5 years LOL You won't regret going SSD just make sure you do your research before buying, alot of them are more trouble than they are worth.

As far as PCIE layout I think EVGA just released an x58 LE which replaces thier old x58 sli board and I believe it has the same pci layout as the classified. Don't kow much about the board though as i think it's only a couple days old, was thinking about picking one up to try out though as the price is very reasonable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049&Tpk=evga%20x58%20le

[Tuxmask75]

sweet SSD you gots there! and thx for the info!

That LE's layout looks great ! when i first saw the layout i was very impressed.
but i had to do a double take..

Further inspection for triple SLI usage
seems the PCI-E 1x will be coverd by a single 2 slot sized graphics card .
than the big hurt for me is the PCI-E will still be covered even in 2 way SLI.
dosnt seem we can skip that second PCI-E slot acording to the EVGA forums.
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=100707377

Slot layout( taken from page 30 of the manual)
http://www.evga.com/support/manuals/files/141-BL-E757.pdf
1. PCI-E 2.0 x16
2. PCI-E 1X
3. PCI-E 2.0 x8
4. PCI- Slot 1
5. PCI-E 2.0 x4
6. PCI-E 2.0 x8

The only way i can see the PCI slot free is if we can use 1 and 5 or 6.
but from the info on the forums just PCI-E 1 and 2 for 2 way SLI
apparently we can only use a single graphics card config, if we want that normal PCI slot.
gana go run off and hide in some corner somewhere, man that's real depressing.

The only real way of fixing these layout limitations is by making the board longer up and down to give the slots some real breathing space.
, which would require a bigger case with 10 PCI cut out slots on the back. instead of the normal 6.
check out this Lian Li http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112159

personally i feel the true high end motherboards should be built biger just to alow full slot usage! that cramped crap is anoying.
i remember there were some older motherboards designed this way back in the day.
but than again it may be on purpouse to cover up slots to make something like the IRQ avalable.
may cause some comflicts.

anyways thanks alot for showing me the LE board!

[bluehaze]

sweet SSD you gots there! and thx for the info!

That LE's layout looks great ! when i first saw the layout i was very impressed.
but i had to do a double take..

Further inspection for triple SLI usage
seems the PCI-E 1x will be coverd by a single 2 slot sized graphics card .
than the big hurt for me is the PCI-E will still be covered even in 2 way SLI.
dosnt seem we can skip that second PCI-E slot acording to the EVGA forums.
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=100707377

Slot layout( taken from page 30 of the manual)
http://www.evga.com/support/manuals/files/141-BL-E757.pdf
1. PCI-E 2.0 x16
2. PCI-E 1X
3. PCI-E 2.0 x8
4. PCI- Slot 1
5. PCI-E 2.0 x4
6. PCI-E 2.0 x8

The only way i can see the PCI slot free is if we can use 1 and 5 or 6.
but from the info on the forums just PCI-E 1 and 2 for 2 way SLI
apparently we can only use a single graphics card config, if we want that normal PCI slot.
gana go run off and hide in some corner somewhere, man that's real depressing.

The only real way of fixing these layout limitations is by making the board longer up and down to give the slots some real breathing space.
, which would require a bigger case with 10 PCI cut out slots on the back. instead of the normal 6.
check out this Lian Li http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112159

personally i feel the true high end motherboards should be built biger just to alow full slot usage! that cramped crap is anoying.
i remember there were some older motherboards designed this way back in the day.
but than again it may be on purpouse to cover up slots to make something like the IRQ avalable.
may cause some comflicts.

anyways thanks alot for showing me the LE board!

Yep I did the same thing last night LOL, I was going to order one to play with but did some searching around and they hardwired the 3rd slot x4...makes no sense why they didn't keep it the way it is on the 760 Classified...I guess they felt it would hurt sales so they had to limit it... I am just as disappointed as you, was really looking forward to trying out that board :(

[Migi06]

I thought the nf200 version was better with triple SLI setups ?

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1231268597VdOL4b1qrP_1_1_l.gif

Nvidia chip in intel board (same goes to Nvidia motherboards) :down::down::down:

There was good test somewhere but cant find it..

[02wrxgt30r]

This is a good thread iv been trying to choose between RIIE and classified and this tread has a tun of info

[NaeKuh]

Nvidia chip in intel board (same goes to Nvidia motherboards) :down::down::down:

There was good test somewhere but cant find it..

WOW

you honestly must have super eyes to dipict a difference of a few FPS.

BTW the naked eye is typically only able to see 60fps. :P

The classified is a benchers / extremist board. Theres options on it that no other boards have, and if those options fit you, then its a great board.

The R2E and Classified IS NOT a newbie board. Meaning buying one automatically gives you an overclock over 4ghz.

[Migi06]

WOW

you honestly must have super eyes to dipict a difference of a few FPS.

BTW the naked eye is typically only able to see 60fps. :P

True, but why pay more to get NF200 chip(this was extra cost for X58 boards) wich run hotter and get worse performance?

And for that fps, yeah usually. Its more related game engine, motion blur and monitor "real" hz. Just try HL 1 engine games with fps/hz 60 vs 100fps/hz, there is really big difference. But games like crysis look way softer in low fps..

[Tuxmask75]

@Migi06
Ya that's one of the performance tests i was looking at that helped me decide against getting the NF200 chip boards..
I'll probably end up running some of my own tests when i receive the Classified. this next Wednesday (June 10th 2009)
Check this one out as well...
Foxconn Blood Rage VS Classified 759 ( Foxconn makes alot of parts for EVGA and other companies, including apple's ipod)
http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/146-Foxconn-Blood-RAGE-X58-Page-9.aspx

Now check out where the bloodrage fits in with some other boards over at toms including the REII
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/x58-motherboard-i7,2164-17.html ( read the conclusion as well)
anyways if the bloodrage out-preforms the EVGA boards and the RE2 out-preforms Bloodrage in most tests than what does that tell you?
Tells me that even though the EVGA board is nice for overclocking it still dont hold up when running it at regular clocks or even low overclocks to similer boards.
(this includes to be what seems to be ram and CPU comunacation slowdown or something not just GPU performence hits)
my analogy is very un-scientific, so these hypothesis may be totally incorrect, I'm just taking info that's available and trying to fit it al together,
anyways all the boards do look like there neck and neck huh?

@NaeKuh some good points there!
I don't mind the framerate loss of a few frames when comparing between boards,
what im worried about next to the high cost is if there is a chance of some lag in the framerates drawn on screen of a few M/S or even N/S lag due to the NF200 chip, (im not really worried about N/S)
most people probably wouldn't run any tests on response times of motherboard hardware if such a thing exists, ( sorry this is just pure speculation on my end)
I wonder what tool would be used to measure this if any??
as for the 60 FPSi have the Samsung LN752 which has a feature which upscales an input sourc's frame rate to 120 FPS, you can clearly tell the difference from standard 60FPS.
Samsung also has a TV that does 240 FPS upscaling and wow blew my mind over at bestbuy.

p.s. like your Avatar!
Which reminds me its time to upload the metal sonic i made last year in 3d studio (big sonic fan :P)..
Usually I'm just a reader hear, but i really wanted to join in on the overclocking fun.

@Bluehaze
Thumbs up bro! lol if you come across any more canadates for nice X85 layouts let me know!

[Tuxmask75]

Anyone here use 12 GB ram in there RE2 or Classified?
wondering what speeds people are getting if using 12 GB,
seems i cant clock 12GB ram to 2000 MHZ,
(best i can do is 1940 or some :banana::banana::banana::banana:, forgot the exact clock)
(even thats not stable while rendering in 3D studio)
6 GB + 2000MHZ= piece of cake! lol
I'm wondering if the Classified handles high numbers of ram better than RE2..

oops!!! Seems i forgot to mention im using 2000 MHZ 8-8-8-24-1N rated
Kingston HyperX 6 GB kit KHX16000D3ULT1k3/6GB

[bluehaze]

Anyone here use 12 GB ram in there RE2 or Classified?
wondering what speeds people are getting if using 12 GB,
seems i cant clock 12GB ram to 2000 MHZ,
(best i can do is 1940 or some :banana::banana::banana::banana:, forgot the exact clock)
(even thats not stable while rendering in 3D studio)
6 GB + 2000MHZ= piece of cake! lol
I'm wondering if the Classified handles high numbers of ram better than RE2..

oops!!! Seems i forgot to mention im using 2000 MHZ 8-8-8-24-1N rated
Kingston HyperX 6 GB kit KHX16000D3ULT1k3/6GB

I think it's more a limitation of the IMC of the processor rather than the motherboard. I notice with 1 stick of ram you can get like an extra 200mhz or more overclock but as soon as you add more sticks you start having to bump up the voltage.

[Tuxmask75]

Ahh! i see, hnmmm i'll look into it a bit more, thanks for the lead on my investagation !