making the i7 920 naked

[Aerou]

Hey!
Long have I been thinking about this, long has this cpu been sweatin under AIR cooling while crunching and the time has finally come :

This wonderfull i7 920 C0 that does 3800MHz at 1.2V Linpack stable is going to be sanded down to its bare core.

While I want to post some shots in this thread,

I also want to ask anyone :

ANY LAST WORDS?

[FabricioGS]

Just do it :)

[Mr_Slinky]

Best of luck and don't let it slip!

[Josecitox]

Do it! do it!!! I´ll go pray for that cpu in the meantime :p

[Aerou]

Hmm ... Suppose I sand the whole IHS down, how do I clean the stuff that bonds the IHS and the core?

[K404]

ground down or clean IHS removal?

hope ya dont slip up. Not a bad chip you have there!

Have any of the QPI/VTT death CPUs been used as guinea pigs for this do you know?

[Aerou]

no spares
I am sanding it down - IHS is going to turn to dust
If a mess it up ... Don't want to even think about it

[TheGanG]

Shoot it neck or let it live :cool:

[NaMcO]

Ooooohhhh subscribed :up:

Good luck with it!

[Aerou]

main reasons being:
the chip is one of the hotter i7 + it's a C0
I can't seems to cool it down on AIR
I expect big improvements

[Aerou]

last shot before I say goodbye to it ;) j/k I hope

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5953/dsc2934copy.jpg

OK, so I'm preping the table and the cpu for wet sanding the bigger part of the IHS using 220 grit sandpaper

[scottc19]

good luck! We will be cheering for you

[Aerou]

thanks for the support guys :up:

I am starting to have mixed feelings, since I don't see myself being able to get a new i7 if this goes south, but heck, this is XS :toast:

I made a little sanding adapter on the cpu and prepared it for wet sanding:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5969/dsc2935copy.jpg

Boy, here we go ...

[tet5uo]

dude... good luck!

[YukonTrooper]

I'd go for a clean removal, but I guess that's just me. :shrug:

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

Extra good luck! I am really looking forward to the results!

[I34z1k]

Oh nice! Much excite!

[mike]

good luck with the sanding - make sure the cpu stays nice and cool and not burn it up from excessive heat!

[Aerou]

Progress is slow and painful ... but that is excpected when sanding such a chunk of copper.
But your replies keep me going. It's 4:20 here :D

[sbinh]

Aerosupra;3766044']Progress is slow and painful ... but that is excpected when sanding such a chunk of copper.
But your replies keep me going. It's 4:20 here :D

It's ok .. it's only 10:30 here .. I can wait .. :D:D

[dinos22]

thats gonna take forever dude

use really rough sandpaper at first i reckon
got with an 80 or a 100 :D

[Aerou]

thats gonna take forever dude

use really rough sandpaper at first i reckon
got with an 80 or a 100 :D

Close to forever probably :ROTF: My arm is biting the dust :D

My battery is really depleted now, so I'm gonna hit the sack for some time and continue later on.

For those watching, here's a progress shot after 2 sheets:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3378/dsc2945copy.jpg

[clo007]

Looking pretty damn good man!!!!

[chuxle]

Very anxious to see the final product, but looking good so far.

[dexster]

good luck...it will be interesting to see the difference it will make in temps , clock speed etc

[fallwind]

That's going to take forever + a day dude! I think most people who have used the sanding method have employed a power tool of some sort, like a belt sander.

Seriously though, just pop the IHS off. A pack of razors and a mini torch and you're in business. I just did my W3520 a couple days ago, easy as pie. I'm going to do some direct-IHS water cooling on it. Just waiting for my G1/4 tap to show up.

[posershadow]

Should have tried to mill it or something, take a few thousandths off on each pass and then when you feel you're close, sand the rest of the way.

[tomb18]

Have you guys not seen this?: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209279

[pcdoc1]

Have fun with this and enjoy the project. (Get ready to write the check) :D

Unfortunately success insures nothing more than "bragging rights" at the expense of $300.00... Of course this is XS, so that may be important to you, but ultimately the risk will only yield 2 or 3 degrees at best for your efforts!

Non the less, looking forward to your results. :)

Edit: tomb18 has it right. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209279

[Splave]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=222040

[FragMagnet]

I like the idea of sanding it off, the remaining edge should supply good support for the H/S and help prevent crushing the core should the H/S get tightened unevenly. In theory you should cut through the face of the IHS, and still have the solder on the die. Did you measure the thickness before starting ? It would be interesting to know the actual thickness, or if someone has removed the IHS and has access to a micrometer to measure please post. Don't for get to shim the H/S to make up for the lost material, if you knew how much you took off, you could get shims of the equivelent thickness and remove the guess work.

[Aerou]

the "Intel Core i7 - DO NOT REMOVE IHS!" thread is one of the reasons I am sanding it. Yes, the rest of the IHS that is left is going to provide protection while mounting or when uneven pressure is applied. Measured it, and the cpu with IHS had 4,95 mm (height of the cpu with PCB) , after 5 sheets of 220 grit I am only at 4,5 mm. I am going for some rough sheets, say 100 grit or similar like Dinos said, otherwise it's torture

[celemine1Gig]

Aerosupra;3766388']...I am going for some rough sheets, say 100 grit or similar like Dinos said, otherwise it's torture

Well, I don't know about you, but we sure enjoy reading about you torturing yourself. :ROTF:

Honestly: Trying to sand down an Intel IHS to the core, using 220 grit sandpaper was not a very smart idea, as some poeple already told you. But who cares. You learn from mistakes. At least I hope so. :up:
Good luck with the rest of the IHS and some proper sandpaper.

[r1rhyder]

Your'e not finished yet? More pics.

[vinister]

why bother doing it by hand either... there are tools for this kind of work. At least the first 3/4 of the thickness can be taken down in 5 minutes on a belt sander

[r1rhyder]

Maybe he's an apartment dweller like me and doesn't have a belt sander. But I would definitely run to work and use that one to take most of the meat off. Would save hours.

[Aerou]

Your'e not finished yet? More pics.

I would have to post pics with 0,03mm differences :rofl:
It is slow, in the meaning of "WHEN WILL THIS END?" I kept sanding 2 hours after breakfast and than had to do a lot of work in the garden.


why bother doing it by hand either... there are tools for this kind of work. At least the first 3/4 of the thickness can be taken down in 5 minutes on a belt sander

Tryed it with the one I have home and

doesn't seem to do the job much quicker
it has strong vibrations and I am afraid that might detach or loosen some SMD parts
just after a short period of sanding with it, the cpu got really hot

[FragMagnet]

why bother doing it by hand either... there are tools for this kind of work. At least the first 3/4 of the thickness can be taken down in 5 minutes on a belt sander

To each his own, but after being a machinist for 27 years, I feel his only error was in grit selection. The risks are too high with a belt sander when you think of holding onto the cpu. Even if you had a lot of experience with one, you would spend as much time trying to make the surface parallel with the pcb after the belt sander, as he would sanding it down with quality 80-100 grit. Doing it manualy your fingers may tire, but when you are complete they will be the same length as when you started :D. With hand sanding there is no chance of launching the cpu into the wall/floor at 250 mph ! If speed was a concern, I'd opt for the milling machine to get started, but by the time you figured out how to hold it securely in the vice, dialing it flat, etc, etc, the time frame would be similar.

I'm not trying to diss you Vinister, I just wouldn't want someone reading this thread attempting to use a belt sander on their cpu without knowing the risks. If you have the skills to pull it off with that method, kudos !

[Monstru]

Strip that sucker!

[s0lid]

One guy at here Finland have actually "lapped" his C2D cpu with CNC, yup custom made jig for that.
I bet it's damn fast to remove IHS with CNC :D

Such a shame that he isn't working anymore at at that cnc shop :(

[Aerou]

I have been used to lapping CPUs with 300 grit as a start. Never thought I would use under 150 grit, but after 5 sheets of 220, it was clear, that's not what Chuck Norris would use. So I went and grabbed 10 sheets of nice 100 grit SPOKAR sandpaper. My arm still hurts, but seems more that twice as fast.


Strip that sucker!

You brought some Czech beer with you home, didn't you? :ROTF: j/k
It is what I'm trying to do - strip it, but not tear it apart :D

[Monstru]

I tried to but the bastards took it from me at the airport =))

Fortunately, one of my coleagues managed to squeeze a 5L keg in the luggage :D

[r1rhyder]

While we're waiting, tell me about this Czech beer. What's up with it, is it that good?

[Jamesrt2004]

While we're waiting, tell me about this Czech beer. What's up with it, is it that good?

the best beer = czech!

[matsjuw]

Oh no no no, Belgian beer = king of all beers ...

[Monstru]

Well, I like beer from Austria most, but Czech beer was also fabulous :)

[r1rhyder]

I drink mostly Grolsch and Heineken, so is it alcohol content or taste or both that make the Czech beer so good? I'm in the states so most domestic and imports are ruined by the preservatives they put into them. No purity laws.

[Monstru]

I like the taste, that is allways what I am after. One of my favourite beers is the austrian weiis-bier Franziskaner for instance :)

[Aerou]

No that's the best kind of OT I can think of, honestly. :toast:
You can't say this or that beer is the best, but certainly Czech has one of the richest tastes. Also, it heavily depends on how you get it. My personal favourite is Pilsner Urquell, amazing beer. IMO One of the things a man should experience in his life is getting mesmerized by a pint of fresh, unprocessed Pilsner directly from the brewery. It is mindblowing and I am not exagerating. Believe, since I study there and it serves as my petrol in the hardest of study hours :D

[r1rhyder]

I'll have to find a distributor here, they even have pouring instructions on thier website. Too cool.

[r1rhyder]

Our best beer in the states IMO come's from the micro-breweries, fresh, untainted. There just aren't enough of them.

[FragMagnet]

Aerosupra;3767025']I have been used to lapping CPUs with 300 grit as a start. Never thought I would use under 150 grit, but after 5 sheets of 220, it was clear,
Yep, on this TRUE and W3520 I spent less than 2 mins each with 80 grit emery cloth on a granite surface table, with light pressure to get them "flat" then started working on the finish. It was the least tedious lapping that I have done !:up:

[r1rhyder]

[XC], aren't you supposed to be working on something? LOL :cord:

[celemine1Gig]

...
One of my favourite beers is the austrian weiis-bier Franziskaner for instance :)

Ooooohhhhhhh. :D Bad mistake! :shakes:

Franziskaner Weissbier is brewed near Munich and Munich is the capital of Bavaria, which is a federal state of Germany. Not Austria!
No offence, I like Austria. Actually my parents live right next to the border to Austria, but the best beer is and always was German. Sorry guys, I had to point that out. ;)

BTW, my avatar shows the Bavarian Royal Coat of Arms. ;)

[Monstru]

No problem, I usually buy it from Austria, that is why I said Austrian. I appologies for my mistake, and hope to wash this off with...more Franziskaner :D:D:D

[QuadDamage]

with all do respect sir, but i think this Franziskaner is the worst beer i've ever drunk dude. It's bitter and sour. Czech Pilsener is awesome no doubt but Franziskaner tastes like a cheap pisser IMO.

Good luck sanding. :yepp:

[celemine1Gig]

with all do respect sir, but i think this Franziskaner is the worst beer i've ever drunk dude. It's bitter and sour. Czech Pilsener is awesome no doubt but Franziskaner tastes like a cheap pisser IMO.

Good luck sanding. :yepp:

Although this is absolutely OT:

Comparing Pilsener to Weissbier (wheat beer) is :rofl: .
Sorry, but it's like saying that an apple does make a damn bad orange.

I'm not a beer connoisseur by any means, but even I know that comparisons like that show that you don't know what you are talking about.


Hope I won't get banned for too much OT. :D The initial questions in this thread were answered already, at least.

[Aerou]

[XC], aren't you supposed to be working on something? LOL :cord:

If you could find some spare arms and give them to me, then by all means :D
Seriously, hand-lapping the whole IHS is torture and today, sadly, my hands were full with other activities and needed to be fully functional ( assembling and repairing an old lawn mover for instance :ROTF: )
But don't worry, I'm progressing, you have my word

Let me point out some OT rules here:
there shall be only beer discussed
no one will offend any beer
no beer is the best in the world
small local breweries offer the best beer experience PERIOD (at least the one that I know personally)

... joking, lol

[Ozzfest05]

my god man invite someone over to help you I want to see this complete lol

[Monstru]

QuadDamage - it's just a matter of personal taste bro. I love Weissbier, even maybe many people might actually find it a little bit to....insert word here :D

But make no mistake, I DID enjoy the Czech beer while I was in Prague, actually, if I am not mistaking, for a short period of time was there not a little overall growth in sales in...let's say...16-19th of April? Because I sure as hell drank a lot of Pilsner Urquell :D

[DaMulta]

I has a beer reading this! Do you has a beer?

[YukonTrooper]

My superior Canadian beer looks at your puny American beer and laughs.

[celemine1Gig]

I think it might be time to finish this project today and show some pics of the naked CPU to stop (or start?) the beer craze. ;)

Hope your arm will survive this.

[Monstru]

Sorry for the late answer but I was having 4 beers while reading this and in the end I went to sleep :D

[QuadDamage]

Ooooohhhhhhh. :D Bad mistake! :shakes:

Franziskaner Weissbier is brewed near Munich and Munich is the capital of Bavaria, which is a federal state of Germany. Not Austria!
No offence, I like Austria. Actually my parents live right next to the border to Austria, but the best beer is and always was German. Sorry guys, I had to point that out. ;)

BTW, my avatar shows the Bavarian Royal Coat of Arms. ;)

Ugh i'm comparing beer to... another beer and as long as it's called a beer it is fair to compare it to another beer ain't it. My point still stands, Franziskaner tastes like a cheap pisser - i don't care who brews it and where it is brewed all i care it's the taste and TBFH, i don't like german beer at all. And yeah i drink a LOT of beer from all around the world - start a beer dedicated thread and i'll tell ya what's good. Burp. :rofl:

edit :

this is the one isn't it.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/205/beer.jpg

[Aerou]

start a beer dedicated thread
This became a beer dedicated thread :ROTF:

[corross]

The IHS is copper, 2mm thick. See Intels datasheet page #32:
http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/320834.pdf

Happy sanding:D

[Monstru]

Yes, that is one version of Franziskaner ( I know 2 of them, darker and lighter). Anyway, please keep this civilised, everybody has it's own taste, it's your right to like or dislike any beer you want, but DO NOT speak this kind of words just because YOU do not like something. Franziskaner is WEISSBIER, it is not for everybody's taste, if you don't like it...well, you just don't like it and that's that...it does not match your taste. But that does not mean it's cheap pisser, and that is not nice to say. After all, you don't hear me saying that Weissbier is real beer for real men, not lady's :banana::banana::banana::banana:tail like Heineken :)

[Aerou]

exactly

SMALL UPDATE

No, I'm not finished, sorry guys.
One issue I also encountered and forgot to mention is overheating. Even while handlapping the cpu, it gets hot after some time and I have to wait a minute or two for it to cool down.

Here are some shots for the one interested:

After first strokes. The outer layer came down quickly, can't say that about copper :brick:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3170/dsc2938copy.jpg

Notice the small lines a drew to keep track of how slowly I progress :D

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9443/dsc2954copy.jpg

[rge]

It will definitely be interesting to see the temps after IHS is off. Soldered ones that I have removed or seen proof of have had higher temps...but others may have different experiences.

The I7 STIM (solder thermal interface material) has a thermal conductance of ~87 W/M*K. The silicone die substrate around 120 W/M*K, and the copper IHS ~350 W/M*K. A quote from intel regarding purpose of IHS..."There are several technical and cost drivers to enable lidded thermal architecture such as minimizing the impact of local hot spots by improving heat spreading, increasing the power-dissipation capability of the thermal solutions, expanding the thermal envelopes of systems, developing thermal solutions that meet business-related cost constraints, as well as developing solutions that fit within form-factor considerations of the chassis. The primary role of the IHS is to spread the heat out evenly from the die and to provide a better bondline control of the interface material. This can be achieved by increasing the area of the IHS and by using a high thermal conductivity thermal interface material with low interfacial resistances."

The best thermal pastes have thermal conductance of 2-4 W/M*K, and inevitable microairbubbles in user application of non-solder paste result in piss poor heat conductance compared to intels stim.

Intels solution is a microthin stim that spreads the hot spots at a conductance of 87 W/M*K to a large surface area high conductance copper (IHS), prior to having to pass through the piss poor 20-40x less conductance user ptim (paste) application.

Removing the IHS, means you will now be trying to cool directly the hot spots over a very small surface area with 2 W/M*K, instead of first spreading the heat with 87 W/M*K solder tim to allow a large surface area to help make up for slow heat transfer of paste.

No question the older cpus that used crappy paste as the first joint would do better with deliding, because in that case you are simply replacing two crappy interfaces with one. But with solder, it is a different story.

Just wish someone who delids a soldered one, especially a hot i7, would make a video of computer running showing the delided cpu and screen with stress test and temps and vcore. Counterintuitive findings are simply harder to believe, especially when I have witnessed the contrary, not saying it is not possible, but would like to actually see it.

[ownage]

Aerosupra;3768939']exactly

SMALL UPDATE

No, I'm not finished, sorry guys.
One issue I also encountered and forgot to mention is overheating. Even while handlapping the cpu, it gets hot after some time and I have to wait a minute or two for it to cool down.

Here are some shots for the one interested:

After first strokes. The outer layer came down quickly, can't say that about copper :brick:


It will take 6 - 10 hours of lapping :D Hurry up man, we are waiting. ;)

[Aerou]

rge, damn, do I feel the temptation just to mirror-finish it and be happy, but that ain't much exploration, is it? More to say, it is a thrill for me, since I had to sell two and a half 775 systems to afford athis i7 system :D Damn you XS!
Besides, I need an excuse to keep my Storm waterblock. This waterblock loves to get in contact with dies and doesn't like to talk much with IHS anyway :D


It will take 6 - 10 hours of lapping :D Hurry up man, we are waiting. ;)

My left hand is K.O. because of the way you have to hold the cpu while lapping on rough surfaces. A nice comfortable holder would be nice :D Right arm, you're next ...
I am positive I lapped more of my thumb off than copper from the IHS :rofl:

[rge]

Definitely was not trying to dissuade, and very glad you are doing it...I am tempted myself just for learning, so I am very interested to see the results you get... just please post a screenie of load temps when your done.

Also, I think you are doing it the better way...by sanding you may preserve enough of edges to allow better mounting.

[Aerou]

I little change here. I decided to make a more complex comparison by testing out just IHS lapped to about 3/5 of its height, then IHSless later and compare the results.
Right now, I gave it a nice finish of 800grit and mounted the original Scythe Mugen 2. After I set it up and boot, I will post results.

I apologize, because I leave to college in 4 hours. I am out of sandpaper, slightly injured and dead-tired (1:40 AM here). I will leave the CPU crunching for the next four-five days, let the paste burn-in, buy couple of 80grit sheets and finish it on Friday.

[ghost_recon88]

Know what might be better idea. Take a dremel to it for a little bit (to take layers off faster), then use sandpaper once you get closer to the core.

Original thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189280)

http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64994&stc=1&d=1211601554

http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64995&stc=1&d=1211601560

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79463&stc=1&d=1211949725

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79706&stc=1&d=1212285601

[Aerou]

It BOOTs!!! (I am so grateful because I had to put the cpu in place and clamp it down using just the heatsink, since the original holder doesn't fit anymore)

[HuffPCair]

Aerosupra;3769320']It BOOTs!!! (I am so grateful because I had to put the cpu in place and clamp it down using just the heatsink, since the original holder doesn't fit anymore)

Did you try a washer mod?

[Aerou]

Did you try a washer mod?

Not needed with the Scythe Mugen 2. With its mounting, I just had to screw it tighter, no mods in that direction necessary;)

[rge]

and the old and new temps? also do you have your ambients

[Aerou]

and the old and new temps? also do you have your ambients

OLD
ambient 26°C
Coretemp 69/65/65/63

NOW so far
ambient (can't find the damn thermometer :( )
Coretemp 67/63/63/62

While crunching WCG 8 threads of Help Conquer Cancer :up:
I hope it improves about one degree after paste settles.
Using Scythe Mugen 2, Panaflo FBA12G12L 120mm*38mm fan at 1600rpm and AC MX-2 paste

[FragMagnet]

Aerosupra;3769372']OLD
ambient 26°C
Coretemp 69/65/65/63

NOW so far
ambient (can't find the damn thermometer :( )
Coretemp 67/63/63/62

While crunching WCG 8 threads of Help Conquer Cancer :up:
I hope it improves about one degree after paste settles.
Using Scythe Mugen 2, Panaflo FBA12G12L 120mm*38mm fan at 1600rpm and AC MX-2 paste

So that's just heavily sanded down, correct ? You haven't sanded through yet have you ?

Maybe the ambient is hotter now with all that sanding :shrug::)

[graham_h]

any more progress ?

[r1rhyder]

You must have gotten the stainless steel model. :rofl:

[Jamesrt2004]

updatesss =D

[etoo]

Who knows I7 920 D0 batch # 3850A796?

[The-Fox]

Should clock like hell :)
Those batches just arrived to Israel.
A friend of mine with 3850A795 is having great clocks, 1.28V for 4.2Ghz Rock Solid with just air cooling.

[Aerou]

Sorry, no updates till Friday, when I will finish it with some new sheets of sandpaper.
From the quick test with half-sanded-down, flattened and lapped IHS, the several hours of painful sanding yielded 2-4°C lower temps (will measure accurately on Friday) and suprisingly, a harsh sound of some chokes went away on the DFI X58

[Aerou]

Here we are then, another Friday, another ...
piece of sanding. Grabbed the 80grit paper this time. It IS much better than the 100 grit, much faster and you can see miniature pieces of copper fly away. Czech Carborundum Electrite sandpaper ... that's the stuff :up:

[Aerou]

Sorry guys it turned out this way. I went on a small expedition with a bunch of people, we were running down the river Ohře and two guys hit a rock and fell over canoe. While they were fighting against the stream, I tried to save their boat with their stuff and because I didn't have any protectors, shoes etc I got pretty dent. My arm wasn't able to continue sanding until recently. I apologize for the delay, but sh*t happens ....

[Aerou]

Ok, updatesss :D

Here's a teaser, but don't get too excited. The results aren't that good and some may be surprised.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9612/dsc3050copy.jpg

[Boogerlad]

wow! that's shiny. What grit did you use? Did you polish?

[radaja]

very very shiny.now lets see these results.:D

[KILLER_K]

Waiting for more pictures and ending results. And who let "QuadDamage" in here btw, lol......

Good Day

[p2501]

Wow, nice work! High res pictures please, because that teaser looks just :shocked:

And since this is an official beer OT thread, Czech beer +1 here! But I like Wernesgrüner and Flensburger also. :p:

[GNU]

wow! that's shiny. What grit did you use? Did you polish?

This is the only possible method to get the area clear. ;)

[Jamesrt2004]

Sorry guys it turned out this way. I went on a small expedition with a bunch of people, we were running down the river Ohře and two guys hit a rock and fell over canoe. While they were fighting against the stream, I tried to save their boat with their stuff and because I didn't have any protectors, shoes etc I got pretty dent. My wasn't able to continue sanding until recently. I apologize for the delay, but sh*t happens ....

as long as your ok mate thats more important. :up:


Nice pics looks great now need more tests etc :p:

[r1rhyder]

If you saved the beer, then you're da man :hump:

[Garrett]

any updates?

[BulldogPO]

Seems like he have forgotten or he is shamed of results.

[Gaul]

helo...helo...wait for OCing !!!!!!

[Kondik]

Come on my Local friend, I can support you with a lot of beer cans if you show us the result !

[Absolute_0]

Thread was a fun read, good luck finishing the job

[eligray]

buuuump don't leave us hanging!

[orig3n]

yes yes results please :) wouldnt mind poping the cap on mine so the heatkiller can kiss the cores directly :up: but id love to see some results first

[zalbard]

I'm waiting for the results as well. :yepp:

[labs23]

Hope he didn't end up killing the chip completely.:(

[orig3n]

sanding definately isnt how id do it id prefer the heating method but either way it would be great to know as it did good things for my old A64 chips.