new parts for water cooling

[monohouse]

User Name: monohouse


System:
CPU: E6750
Motherboard: Abit IP35-E
CPU Overclock Speed: 3360 - 3880 Mhz
Video Card & Quantity: HD3870 x1
Videocard Overclock: 837 - 1000/1100 mhz


Watercooling:
CPU Block: Bigwater 745
NorthBridge Block: none
SouthBridgeBlock: none
Mosfet Block: none
Videocard WB/WBs: thermaltake W2
Radiator & Quantity: 1x120 + 1x240 (Bigwater 745)
Radiator Fans & Quantity: 3x120mm
Radiator Location: outside case
Radiator Fan Direction: blowing into the rads
Reservoir: ~400 cc, only half are used
Tubing & Size: 3/8" OD
Barb/Fitting Size: 3/8" OD compression
Pump & Quantity: not anymore, need a new one
Pumps-Series/Parallel:

pump > pipes split to two branchs: CPU > 240mm rad, GPU > 120mm rad, both go back to res

I removed the NB waterblock per recommendation of the water cooling guide

recently better watercooling components became available, however, their prices are extreme: MCP350/355 for 150$, and the MCW60 for 100$
I decided I wont buy for that price, and I heard those alternative components could be suitable, I tested the cpu block, it does not seem to be very restrictive so I decided that it does not need to be changed

[faster3200]

Ok, first off ditch everything that is made by Thermaltake. Their watercooling products are awful and will cause you more problems than they are worth.

Where are you from? The MCP355 (DDC 3.2) shouldn't cost nearly that much.

[monohouse]

it would seem that the TT parts ditched themselves, the pump burned, and the block is about to be replaced, I am from Israel, and there is nothing but crap available here, and that is only if you can find it

I read here:
http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=swiftechh20-120-maze45
it would seem like that gpu block can handle such a hot card, the chances are good it can handle as well the HD3870 (which may be colder), and this: http://www.rbmods.com/content/1076/conclusion.aspx
would seem to indicate that this block has more headroom than a X700

[NaeKuh]

it would seem that the TT parts ditched themselves, the pump burned, and the block is about to be replaced, I am from Israel, and there is nothing but crap available here, and that is only if you can find it


Jab-tech ships internationally. <--- talk to john
SidewindersComputers does as well <---- talk to gary
Shop-Pts aka petras ships internationally <--- talk to alex or quoc
Koolance ships internationally <--- ask dean and Tim
DangerDen also does <---- ask DarthBeavis
Performance-pcs has EVERYTHING and as well ships internationally. <--- talk to Hank
Frozen-cpu i know you can get EVERYTHING and they ship internationally. <---- Meh, there so big i dont know who the owner is in that company.

Unless you live in a serious 3rd world country which has trade embargos, i dont consider israel one of them, you can get anything you need, the cost is price and time. :up:

[Waterlogged]

Jab-tech ships internationally. <--- talk to john
SidewindersComputers does as well <---- talk to gary
Shop-Pts aka petras ships internationally <--- talk to alex or quoc
Koolance ships internationally <--- ask dean and Tim
DangerDen also does <---- ask DarthBeavis
Performance-pcs has EVERYTHING and as well ships internationally. <--- talk to Hank
Frozen-cpu i know you can get EVERYTHING and they ship internationally. <---- Meh, there so big i dont know who the owner is in that company.

Unless you live in a serious 3rd world country which has trade embargos, i dont consider israel one of them, you can get anything you need, the cost is price and time. :up:

Mark Friga jr. is the owner of FCPU but they have an email addy for international pricing and shipping, it's "international@frozencpu.com".

[monohouse]

but what kind of payment ? I checked with danger den, they do ship internationally, but only if you for example buy online, for that you need a worldwide credit card, same with paypal

shipping itself was never a problem, it's the creditcard, makes it impossible to buy anything anywhere, and nobody would allow buying using manual bank transfer, maybe not even me because manual transfers cost too much

[LOUISSSSS]

use your CC, just call your CC company first and tell them that you're about to make a purchase excess of $200 USD on it from out of your country. it should be fine.

[LOUISSSSS]

oh yea, and drop ALL of your tt equipment.

[CedricFP]

Jab-tech ships internationally. <--- talk to john
SidewindersComputers does as well <---- talk to gary
Shop-Pts aka petras ships internationally <--- talk to alex or quoc
Koolance ships internationally <--- ask dean and Tim
DangerDen also does <---- ask DarthBeavis
Performance-pcs has EVERYTHING and as well ships internationally. <--- talk to Hank
Frozen-cpu i know you can get EVERYTHING and they ship internationally. <---- Meh, there so big i dont know who the owner is in that company.

Unless you live in a serious 3rd world country which has trade embargos, i dont consider israel one of them, you can get anything you need, the cost is price and time. :up:
I thought Jab-Tech's "international" shipping meant Canada only.

[NaeKuh]

I thought Jab-Tech's "international" shipping meant Canada only.

nah google checkout accepts everything.

I think performance-pcs's does bank transfers.

email and ask hank.

[monohouse]

it may take a while to mail all those shops, louis I don't even have a CC yet at all, but when I do I will try that, hopefully it won't be necessary, for a large order the money payed for manual transfer to the bank while considerable, shouldn't be too much if done only once, but for every item from a different place every time could be a major problem

mark mentioned Western Union in his mail, I checked on that, it appears to be a cash transfer service, this may yet work, and the prices in his shop seem to be accurate

... except for:

USPS Priority Mail International $72.50
USPS Express Mail International $86.00
FedEx Priority (1-3 days) $145.21
FedEx Economy (2-10 days) $138.07

cheese's chrisp....the price of the shipping is higher than the items, that is just for the MCW60 and the mcp355.

well I guess I won't be able to get rid of all the thermaltake stuff after all, too bad, it's unlikely I will find a shop with any lower shipping prices since thy are probably the same country (US).

I guess back to maze4gpu and DD12V-5, thanks for all the info, now I know the real reason that what is available here is as expensive as it is (actually it may be cheeper)

unless....there are any shops in europe, which may improve shipping price

[CedricFP]

nah google checkout accepts everything.

I think performance-pcs's does bank transfers.

email and ask hank.
I meant more JT's policy.

I do remember asking them a while back if they would ship to HK and they said that international meant Canada only.

That may have changed since then, though.

[monohouse]

sayin what are Acrylic topped blocks ?

[faster3200]

sayin what are Acrylic topped blocks ?

Blocks that have an acrylic top. Like this (http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/images/EK-Supreme-775-Plexi.jpg).

[NaeKuh]

i dont think u should use TT parts.

it wont result in a happy ending.

staying on air is a better solution then going on TT water.

[monohouse]

you mean the plastic part ontop ?
I don't know the results I got at the beginning were pretty good (or were they ?), at 20C room temp (DMM) managed 1.5250V 3880 mhz < 60C with the "UV water", I looked in many places for air temps and still do, all air temps I've seen so far never get anywhere near that, including big typhoon, i was (and still am) quite impressed with water performance, but also from the low noise and the considerably decreased dust in the system.

but even if you are right, if im gonna buy more (air) cooling parts, the total money spent on cooling will be too high, but I know the moto of XS, "no limits", "no excuses", "only the best", it's just too bad I am not in the US, maybe I would think that way too.

btw, I have just seen a few performance results of the Apogee GT (and GTZ), and so far I haven't found any results with conroe at 1.5250V, alote of things I see everywhere, lead me to believe that there isn't as much a difference between the different water cooling parts, recent graphs I've seen show less than 2.5C difference between ~30 different CPU blocks, that maybe because the background was also very good, and I won't argue that fact (primo rad, primo pump etc...), it's obvious that if I got all crap and getting something good won't make that much a difference, but that is today, eventually I hope to replace everything, based on your advice. that is if you are sure that it makes such a big difference, personally I don't consider 2.5C a big difference, a difference between 12 and 13 PM could be more significant, but right now there are bigger concerns: maintenance, I have recently discovered that I got things living in the tubes and the blocks, the conditions of the (already bad) components was so bad that I was surprised there was any water flow at all, let alone cooling, and the recent discovery of the fact that the purchase of the NB block and it's mounting was not only a total waste of money (on another crappy part), but it also reduces the flow and total performance of the cooling system, so I decided to remove that, maybe if I make one more change with the purchase of the components mentioned, the improvement will be much more considerable that getting primo cooling parts for insane prices.

and then, once I know how to work with all that, I (and you) will be able to see the performance of the loop after all the recent modifications, and THEN see if upgrades of that extent are necessary, that is, if you could, for a short while, not consider 2.5C a difference worth spending 150$ on.

to flatten it all out, I would mention that it's just like overclocking, if you overclock the part that is not the primary jammer in the system, you wouldn't gain anything, no matter how much faster it is going (like overclocking a videocard to get more cpu speed), and it's possible that the same is happening here, there gotta be components of the TT system that are (much?) worse than others, and isn't it reasonable to assume that it is better to replace those components first ?

now that I know what acrylic topped blocks are, I realize why my cpu block sucks, but so far I only found the GTX as a replacement, but aside from the fact that it is a corrosive block it is also a very highly priced, so now I know the importance of it's replacement, eventually I will be able to replace everything, I don't want to risk my system due to cracking any more than anyone else.

but air ?, it's really the first time I heard such a thing proposed, I never seen a water system being better that air, not even the worst of the worst of them (gigabyte kits?), in fact not even the big typhoon is better than water (and I seen in many places it being mentioned as one of the best, like the tower 120)

I am still open for any suggestions, but because we live in totally different places, it is a different reality.
overhaul of the entire system with primo parts at 2x the price may as well be > buying a whole new computer which with stock cooling (and stock speeds) will perform better.

besides we don't even know yet what these added parts will do to the whole system, they might surprise you (and me).

[NaeKuh]

the problem is future compatiability and actually usefulness.

TT has horrible failure rates, and thats what were trying to save you from.

If your system is setup, just play with it, but dont dare upgrade it. That would be like playing with fire near a gas station.

But as for suggestions, no one on this forum can give ya any advice on a TT kit, because by definition on any forum, TT water products are toys. :\

Also a few of us have been in your shoes. Im guilty of using TT back when they first came out... wasnt too happy with it, but yet im still guilty.

[monohouse]

well, what do you know, my pump burned up (the one from the bigwater kit) so I ordered a replacement (TT P500) I plugged it in turned it on (manually, without system) and it didn't work, I guess now I know what you meen by "horrible failure rates", I removed the NB block, and I am going to order a GTX CU, MCP355 and a MCW60-R2 if it's available, I wonder if the last part is going to get corrosive, im not sure if the housing is made of some kind of metal, it looks like plastic.

since you mentioned earlier that it is dangerous to upgrade TT-based systems, I think this should prevent any damage inside the case due to leaks because of too high pressure from the pump, maybe at first the cooling performance won't be quite as good because of the 10-pass TT radiators (or maybe it will be because of the non-impingement blocks? - pressure used in the rad instead of the blocks), but it should be a matter of time before that part gets replaced as well, at least, that's the last one, im thiking to replace the rads with two 240mm (one for cpu the other for gpu) from swiftech as well, they seem to be designed for low noise, maybe if something else becomes available I could take a loot at it, for the moment however it seems only 2 options are available danger den and swiftech, I couldn't find any good blocks on danger den, but maybe I didn't look too far yet.

still your opinions count, if you have them, in any case the budget we are talking about at the moment is ~ 309.406 USD, those 3 parts cost 379.022 USD but I got the refund from the P500 pump which is 45.63738 USD, so it's possible

hmm, ok that's strange, I just checked on frozencpu it seems if I oreder:
Danger Den Black Ice GT Stealth 240 Radiator 48.95
Swiftech MCW60 VGA Water Block - Rev 2 - 44.60
Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ Universal CPU Waterblock - 69.95
USPS Priority Mail International $51.00
with a Total of 215 USD, and the pump I could buy here for 145.936 it turns out to be 360 USD, and with the refund 315...didn't think I could add a radiator into the budget, too bad they don't have the GTX CU, im still looking for a all-copper cpu block

it's strange that all the best and highest end CPU/GPU water blocks are not all-copper (housing is always made of other material), what are recommended all-copper block for cpu and gpu ?

I guess I will go with the GTZ and MCW60-R2 in terms of blocks, but im not sure about the rad, because it is a split loop, I will need 2 rads, ordering 2 rads is most certainly outside the budget, what kind of rad is needed for a 1.5V conroe at full speed (4000) ? and are the DD black ice gt stealth any good ? I've read the comparison of the XSPC, swiftech and thermochill rads, but those other models are both, very expensive and not available, not sure I like radiator pressure drops much considering I am going for a impingement cpu block

[Boyu]

Jab-tech ships internationally. <--- talk to john
SidewindersComputers does as well <---- talk to gary
Shop-Pts aka petras ships internationally <--- talk to alex or quoc
Koolance ships internationally <--- ask dean and Tim
DangerDen also does <---- ask DarthBeavis
Performance-pcs has EVERYTHING and as well ships internationally. <--- talk to Hank
Frozen-cpu i know you can get EVERYTHING and they ship internationally. <---- Meh, there so big i dont know who the owner is in that company.

Unless you live in a serious 3rd world country which has trade embargos, i dont consider israel one of them, you can get anything you need, the cost is price and time. :up:

i usualy order from performance-pcs, sidewinder and petra,
To bad jab tech don't do order to my country.

[monohouse]

what you think about the DD black ice gt stealth ? are they restrictive like the swiftech ? and what size do I need for my system configuration ? I plan to use the new rad for the cpu and the TT 240 rad for the gpu, so I want the best rad for the hottest part

[RoadconeTuning]

Swiftech is the best bang for the buck untill you get to the TC from what ive seen if you want to keep it quiet... the black ice GT's are better with higher speed fans IIRC so your system would be louder with that.

along with everyone else on here im going to suggest you stick to high end air cooling over that crap that is thermaltake watercooling... i used their Volcano coolers back in the early K7 days and i admit to wanting a Blue Orb because i was a tard and i still have a Copper TT upgraded fan on a GF4 Ti4200 laying around but by comparison... TT is about as close to fisher price and mattel as you can get without it coming w/ the dollhouse that your niece uses...

make sure you get all of your stuff from one shop, see if you can work with the owner on shipping and go ahead and bite the bullet... i think ive got something like 450 in my setup now and its nothing impressive ... so another 50-100 to make sure you get the good stuff would be worth it.

[monohouse]

I meant *only* the 240 rad is going to be the only thermaltake part used in the loop, as the gpu rad.

yhe I was abit afraid the noise, but they seem to have packed 30 fins per inch into it (!), i guess it takes some effort to get through all that density, but i am also abit concerned about corrosion, and wonder which of the rads has non-copper pipes.

I looked into thermochill, it seems to be the best, but because of it it exceeds the budget, so I have to compromise either a normal 360 rad like the swiftech (pressure drop) or the stealth (noise), or the thermochill / XSPC 120 (not enough performance), which I am guessing won't be a good idea for my configuration ? because i haven't really calculated anything, I know it's possible though.

the problem with most highest end rads is the need for additional components (except for their price) like the barb and fittings, for example the MCW60-R2 and the GTZ have all these parts packaged inside, no need for separate buying, which makes the price itself (a couple 3/8" compression fittings costs 15$ without shipping) and it's shipping too high.

im guessing that you didn't comment on the blocks because they are best.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I think you should talk to eddy @ EKwaterblocks as he is in slovenia and has everything you need for a great system - why buy from the US when your in isreal??? doesnt make sense.

[Waterlogged]

The pressure drop on the GT Stealth is much worse than the MCR. Honestly, go with the MCR, your not sacrificing that much performance from a Thermochill and you can use quieter fans too.

[monohouse]

that's what I thought Waterlogged, when the rest of your equipment is primo, the difference impact from one replaced better component is not going to make the major difference worthy of investment.

SNiiPE_DoGG thanks for that im gonna check that out, US is really far away but I can't find any of that equipment anywhere, but it looks so far that the calculated shipping price is higher for the equivalent components (2 blocks+rad)

hahaha "friends don't let friends use Thermaltake"

[monohouse]

there is, however, one more thing I may need help with, is the pump, some people say flow and others say pressure, but since now we know exactly what components the water will flow through this should be better known the answer to the question, so what pump do I need considering the components I will be using ? the 655 or the 355 ? the good news is the price difference between them is not significant, and I wonder if the added flow rate is useful instead of the pressure

[Boyu]

I go for 355, it had more head pressure and compact size, but you have to change the stock top

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

as you can see below the 355 beats the D5 (655) in all possible cases:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9066/355wins.jpg

[ILikeCosmosS]

Sniipe is that with or without the 655 + top?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Sniipe is that with or without the 655 + top?

base 655 because I couldnt find a P/Q graph for the pump with a top.... if anybody can link me I will add it to the chart.

[Waterlogged]

base 655 because I couldnt find a P/Q graph for the pump with a top.... if anybody can link me I will add it to the chart.

SNiiPE, 1 word....skinneelabs ;)

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

doh :doh: I was at martin.skineelabs.com :p:

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

EDIT: Fixed chart, now shows the stock fuzionv2 - this situation with no additional pressure drop the d5 with top outperforms the 355+XSPC although only a slightly great pressure drop and the 355 takes the cake.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8919/pumpsv21.jpg

[monohouse]

this is a very detailed answer, and thanks for all that information, the restriction on the blocks is HUGE, but the reason I asked was because I thought the 355 has a top limit of 450 LPH, and the 655 has about 1200 LPH, if im reading this right, not only that I was wrong (and both can get to 1200 LPH) but it's also realistically impossible to reach such flow rates regardless of pump ? unless something totally extreme hardcore overpowered like the iwaki, which are probably used under the worst possible conditions...?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

yep, thats a legitimate assessment - the 355 with a top just gives you so many more options regarding what blocks you can have and how many of them while still maintaining the 1-1.5gpm required for great cooling ;)