Component advice greatly appreciated!

[Mastakilla]

Hi all,

I'm going to assemble a desktop for my brother.
This means the requirements are a bit different then the usual "Die Hard XtremeSystems" desktop ;)

Since I don't want go fix or problem solve all the time, the first priority is stability and BIOS / Driver maturity...
After that comes offcourse "getting the most bang out of the buck" (aka a nice overclock :))
And finally also consider the PC will be in his bedroom, so it doesnt need to break any noise records ;)

He will mainly use it for the internet and he'll attach it to his CRT TV to play some movies... Not for gaming... at least that's what he sais now (he has an XBOX 360 for that)

His budget was 700-800 euro and I'm currently around the 830 euro-ish

Many components I figured out already, but for some I could use some advice from you guys :)

This is already "decided" (unless someone has some really good arguments not to ;) )

* BenQ 22" E2200HD (177,25 euro)
--> got a nice review at anandtech and is a really nice price for full HD resolution
* Antec Gamersgear Three Hundred (53,25 euro)
--> also adviced by anandtech... didn't really do too much research on this, but I guess it should do just fine
* Samsung SpinPoint F1 Desktop Class HD642 (58,31 euro)
--> cheapest 640GB HD, should be fine...
* AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition (141,67 euro)
--> bit too expensive for the budget perhaps, but he'll forget all that after I overclock the hell out of it ;)
* Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S (19,24 euro)
--> crap like all dvd writers nowadays, but less crap then the samsungs atm according to most people at cdfreaks.com... and cheap offcourse...
* OCZ Reaper HPC Edition Dual Channel - Geheugen - 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - DIMM 240-pins - DDR2 - 800 MHz / PC2-6400 (52,36 euro)
--> CAS4 PC6400 RAM should do the job just fine... and OCZ...
* Sapphire RADEON HD 4830 (94,69 euro)
--> possibly a bit overkill for non gaming, but combine it with Hybrid Crossfire and it is hard to ignore the bang for the buck here (was considering the 15 euro cheaper 9600GSO before this one)
--> The HIS RADEAON HD 4830 also is priced similarly, but I guess Sapphire is a safer bet?

The hardware below however still is a huge question mark:

Mobo

After some questions the previous days, I already figured out I need to go for a 970GX Chipset, but I don't really know which one... These are the options:
* MSI KA790GX (91 euro)
--> havent read much about this one yet
* Foxconn A7DA-S (98 euro)
--> havent read much about this one yet
* Asrock AOD790GX/128M (100 euro)
--> supposed to be quite good for the money, but I don't really know how it compares to the others in the list (I'm considering this one)
* Asus M4A78-E (117 euro)
--> a bit above budget actually, but if it is REALLY worth the difference...

Please keep in mind that stability / mature BIOS are more important then that "100mhz extra"-screenshot to post here ;)

Powersupply:

This is probably the hardest one I still need to decide about. I know that in the cheaper range you cant look at the Wattage they are rated for. I also know that a good brand is important here, but does not always guarantee the quality I'm looking for. Although he probably won't upgrade much, it should be able to handle an extra HD and a decent overclock. These are the options I found:
* Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 460W 460W 80 Plus (46,5 euro)
--> seems like a nice deal, but is it any good?
* Corsair CX400W 400W 80 Plus (47,5 euro)
--> praised by Anandtech, but I'm too sure that 400W will be enough after overclocking it...
* Asus A-45GA 450W (49,5 euro)
--> hmm? dunno
* OCZ ModXStream Pro 400W 400W 80 Plus Modulair (50 euro)
--> once more doubts about the 400W part... (also I'm not so sure how "OCZ-quality" the cheaper OCZs are)
* Antec TruePower Trio 430 430W (53,5 euro)
--> I have an ancient Antec Truepower 430W in my Duron 700Mhz PC lol... is this really up to the task?
* Antec Basiq BP500U 500W (56 euro)
--> Basiq doesnt sound very good? or is it?
* Antec NeoPower 430 430W Modulair (56 euro)
--> am i paying for the modular part here or the quality?
* OCZ StealthXStream 500W 500W (57 euro)
--> Isnt StealthXStream the budget stuff of OCZ? Is it any good?
Below is actually a bit over budget... but if it is REALLY necessary...
* Antec Earthwatts EA 430 430W 80 Plus (60 euro)
--> over budget, but necesarry?
* Asus P-50GA 500W (61,5 euro)
--> over budget, but necesarry?
* OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W 500W 80 Plus Modulair (62 euro)
--> didnt do very well in Anandtechs latest review (price / quality)
* Antec NeoPower 500 500W Modulair (62,5 euro)
--> over budget, but necesarry?
* PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470 ATX, 470W (ATX12V 2.1) 470W (63 euro)
--> the name alone means it certainly is up for the task, but is it really necesarry to pay this much?

Ow yeah, the winners of the anandtech mega PowerSupply review are not available for a reasonable price in my area (Artic Cooling Fusion from Germany to NL is 68 euro)

CPU Cooling

And finally there is offcourse also the big question mark about CPU cooling. I'm not going to post the options of those, since it are just too many... I'm looking for something around 30-40 euro including fan (so no TRUE)...
So far the Scytes look interesting:
* Scythe Mugen 2 (34 euro)
* Scythe Kama Angle (30 euro)

But if you have a better idea for this, please let me know!

Thanks in advance for all advice!! And if you have any question, just shoot :)

[Mastakilla]

come one guys...

someone must have a good or bad experience with one of those motherboards or powersupplies?
with the cooling i have no problem taking a guess with one of those Skythes, but for the mobo and PSU I'de love to hear some feedback...

[nate39]

I would suggest considering Gigabyte motherboards. Can't beat the quality even with their budget boards. I am using one and have never had any issues as far as stability goes.

I would like to know the answer to the quality of the OCZ stealthxstream also. I just ordered one for a build I am going and asked that question here and was ignored also. But on my personal computer I am using Corsair and you can't go wrong with them.

[Mastakilla]

Thanks for the tip!

but the cheapest Gigabyte I could find is way above my budget:
Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H for 136 euro :(

[B.E.E.F.]

come one guys...

Come on you. All I see is a wall of text.

[LightSpeed]

Id say go for the foxconn, the PCP&C PSU and if you can, THIS (http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-hdts1283.php) xigmatek (should be within 35 euro)

Since youre buying from europe, xigmatek might be hard to find. in that case, im not so sure.

[Mastakilla]

Come on you. All I see is a wall of text.
ok, you got a point there :rolleyes:

I always try to make my questions as complete as possible, and often that involves a lot of text :shrug:

I'll try to make a summary here for those who don't like reading :)


What?

I'm building a new system for my brother

1st priority is stability and driver / bios maturity
2nd priority is sticking to the budget
3th priority is a nice overclock to make everything worth its money :)

already decided

1) Motherboard with a 970GX chipset of around 100 euro
2) AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition
3) OCZ Reaper HPC Edition Dual Channel - Memory- 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - DIMM 240-pins - DDR2 - 800 MHz / PC2-6400
4) The rest (less relevant for my questions)

to be decided

1) What motherboard?
* MSI KA790GX (91 euro)
* Foxconn A7DA-S (98 euro)
* Asrock AOD790GX/128M (100 euro)
* Asus M4A78-E (117 euro) --> only if it is REALLY worth the extra cost

2) What PSU?
* Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 460W 460W 80 Plus (46,5 euro)
* Corsair CX400W 400W 80 Plus (47,5 euro)
* Asus A-45GA 450W (49,5 euro)
* OCZ ModXStream Pro 400W 400W 80 Plus Modulair (50 euro)
* Antec TruePower Trio 430 430W (53,5 euro)
* Antec Basiq BP500U 500W (56 euro)
* Antec NeoPower 430 430W Modulair (56 euro)
* OCZ StealthXStream 500W 500W (57 euro) --> Isnt StealthXStream the budget stuff of OCZ? Is it any good?
Below is actually a bit over budget... but if it is REALLY necessary...
* Antec Earthwatts EA 430 430W 80 Plus (60 euro)
* Asus P-50GA 500W (61,5 euro)
* OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W 500W 80 Plus Modulair (62 euro)
* Antec NeoPower 500 500W Modulair (62,5 euro)
* PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470 ATX, 470W (ATX12V 2.1) 470W (63 euro)

4) Videocard
* HIS RADEAON HD 4830 (95 euro)
* Sapphire RADEAON HD 4830 (95 euro)

5) CPU Cooler
* Skythe Mugen 2, Skythe Kama Angle or something else in the same price range?
I hope this is better ;)

[LightSpeed]

seriously, i dunno what youl finally be getting or if you go by my suggestions but really go for the PCP&C PSU, even though the OCZ units u listed are decent enough, this is only 8 pounds or so more exp and will certainly be worth it

[Mastakilla]

Id say go for the foxconn, the PCP&C PSU and if you can, THIS (http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-hdts1283.php) xigmatek (should be within 35 euro)

Since youre buying from europe, xigmatek might be hard to find. in that case, im not so sure.
any special reason for the Foxconn?
so far I was thinking of going for Asrock, or, if it is really worth it / needed, go for the Asus.... But I must admit I havent really investigated that Foxconn very much

I found the Xigmatek at a shop I am going to buy from (37 euro) :) I also checked some reviews and the performance seems really good indeed! I did read some complaints about the mounting system... Is it "ok enough"?

That the PC&P is up to the job, I have no doubt about... but isn't a bit overkill? I know it is only a few euro more expensive, but i'm already over budget, so every euro counts ;) if no other powersupplies are recommended i will offcourse consider the PC&P

thanks for the tips!

[Halk]

In case you didn't notice, someone has posted modified BIOS files for Asus boards that can unlock the 4th core on Phenom II X3s. I didn't read it in detail but I think it required a SB750. Tri cores come about when either a quad core has a core that isn't up to the job, or when there's demand for tri cores and they just rebrand a quad core. However you could clock each core individually, so even if it's a bad core you could probably still get something out of it.

Having said all that though, the CPU with three cores is likely to be beefy enough.

[cbjaust]

Go with the foxconn.

also be aware that many tower coolers will interfere with the first or second DIMM slot on most AMD boards especially if you are using tall ram such as the Reaper HPC you have chosen. My solustion for a cooler and RAM was initially going to be Reaper HPC and a TRUE but that was no go if i wanted dual channel functionality so I got some G.skill PI whose heatspreaders are taller that standard but not as tall as the Reaper HPC spreaders and a Thermalright SI-128 SE which just fits over the G.Skill PI spreaders.

and it's best to go with a better power supply. have a look at jonnyguru for comprehensive psu reviews.

where are you getting your prices from? it's difficult to recommend stuff without local price and availability info.

cheers

[G0ldBr1ck]

I would have to say go for the AsRock board, I have tested it completely and it is a great stable board. Can even clock a locked CPU high using the HT bus (see 920 validation in sig.)

[nanohead]

In reality, most of those components will work fine. Keep in mind, that Asrock has a peculiar twist on all their motherboards (they do these things to lower cost reduce components). Their 790GX has a weird paddle card....

The Foxconn is a terrific design, however in their case, it is unclear whether they will remain in the branded motherboard business at all. They manufacture boards for Asus, Dell, and many others, but their own brand may be discontinued shortly. I happen to love the Foxconn design, but their BIOS work has been weak at best...

MSI and Asus, while not always the most exciting, have both been pretty good performers where it counts, with BIOS updates on a regular basis. With these new platforms, BIOS updates are imperative, otherwise, all the incompatibilities and bugs fester (like Gigabyte did with the MA790GP-DS4H, which still has bugs all over the place)

You also listed a ton of power supplies. Here too, most of these are quite good, and will give trouble free performance. On a basic machine, any of these PSUs will be fine. Its easy to drive yourself crazy with choices here, but just pick one that has a decent price, and buy it. The chances of getting a bad unit are probably equally low with all those brands..... so just pick one.

And what cbjaust said is important as well, about the height of the RAM coolers interfering with the coolers. Another funny thing, is that RAM coolers do absolutely NOTHING in most cases (for real...., its all fashion). This is even MORE true for DDR3, as voltage is down another 20% from DDR2. You could buy just about anything and it will work fine. Its definitely not worth getting Reapers if you are worried about clearance. I have 2 sets of 4GB, only because they are so cheap, but I would have bought just about anything.

[Mastakilla]

thanks once more for the tips!

I didnt really think of the height of those RAM modules myself! you are probably right... I'll get me some others... do you think it is ok to go for CAS5 PC6400 RAM? or will that limit my OC of the CPU too?

I'm currently seeing following alternatives:
Patriot PDC24G6400ELK CAS4 (55 euro)
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ2F8004GK CAS5 (53 euro)
G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ 4GB (2x 2GB) DDR2 CAS5 (51 euro)

so far I am planning to buy components from the following 2 shops:
www.azerty.nl
www.pcmegastore.nl
I check my prices @ http://tweakers.net/pricewatch

If the mounting system is "do-able" according to you guys, I will also go for that xigmatek CPU cooler.

I'll check out that jonnyguru site for the powersupplies

And about the mobos.... I'm not so sure yet...
That Foxconn might stop (supporting) soon aint really what I'm looking for, despite the nice design
1 postitive and 1 negative reply about the Asrock also is not yet too convincing :p
and yeah... the Asus should be fine, but a bit expensive...

[Mastakilla]

small extra question:
The Sapphire Radeon 4830 has 2x DVI-I out
The Benq E2200HD has a DVI-D in

in the shop i see DVI kabels for both DVI-D and DVI-I, but not from DVI-I to DVI-D

do I just need a simple DVI-I cable (is it all downwards compatible?)

[B.E.E.F.]

In case you didn't notice, someone has posted modified BIOS files for Asus boards that can unlock the 4th core on Phenom II X3s.

The cores are disabled for a reason. Otherwise it would be a PhenomII X4.

Better leave the X3 to be an X3.

[lorze_knight]

pay attention to the cpu number 0851 can run the 4 cores!


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219594

[BeepBeep2]

No, that's a date code.
Year 2008, Week 51
4/5 CPU's even for one date won't run 4 cores.

[cbjaust]

thanks once more for the tips!

I didnt really think of the height of those RAM modules myself! you are probably right... I'll get me some others... do you think it is ok to go for CAS5 PC6400 RAM? or will that limit my OC of the CPU too?

I'm currently seeing following alternatives:
Patriot PDC24G6400ELK CAS4 (55 euro)
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ2F8004GK CAS5 (53 euro)
G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ 4GB (2x 2GB) DDR2 CAS5 (51 euro)

so far I am planning to buy components from the following 2 shops:
www.azerty.nl
www.pcmegastore.nl
I check my prices @ http://tweakers.net/pricewatch

If the mounting system is "do-able" according to you guys, I will also go for that xigmatek CPU cooler.

I'll check out that jonnyguru site for the powersupplies

And about the mobos.... I'm not so sure yet...
That Foxconn might stop (supporting) soon aint really what I'm looking for, despite the nice design
1 postitive and 1 negative reply about the Asrock also is not yet too convincing :p
and yeah... the Asus should be fine, but a bit expensive...

Since you are getting a Phenom II with its support for PC8500, I would NOT get any CAS5 PC6400. If you're going to go with PC6400 stick with CAS4; so the Patriot or G.Skill you mention are advisable over the CAS5 OCZ.

CAS4 PC6400 is more likely to overclock to PC8500 at CAS5 than the CAS5 PC6400.

That said, I would suggest you look at the OCZ 4GB DDR2 1066Mhz Platinum Matched Pair (http://www.pcmegastore.nl/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_16_174_460&products_id=92506816) which is listed at www.pcmegastore.nl since the K10 architecture supports PC8500 with it ratio RAM setting scheme.

Regards to the Foxconn, I had a look and they have an updated BIOS (http://www.foxconnchannel.com/support/downloads.aspx?ProductModel=A7DA-S&TypeID=en-us0000003) which says it has updated code to support AM3 processors.

Cheers

[Mastakilla]

about the 4 cores enabling: i knew that this is a matter of luck and i'm not putting my hope to high for this :)
who knows i might get lucky, i'll certainly let you know... ;)

about the PC8500 RAM: although the K10 supports PC8500, is it really needed? does it result in a higher overclock? (does CAS5 PC6400 limit my overclock? or can I go around it with a divider?) or a faster overall system performance of more then 2%?
cause although I might post some memory benchmarks here, those are not my primary goal ;)

btw: the gskill i posted is also CAS5...

[nanohead]

about the 4 cores enabling: i knew that this is a matter of luck and i'm not putting my hope to high for this :)
who knows i might get lucky, i'll certainly let you know... ;)

about the PC8500 RAM: although the K10 supports PC8500, is it really needed? does it result in a higher overclock? (does CAS5 PC6400 limit my overclock? or can I go around it with a divider?) or a faster overall system performance of more then 2%?
cause although I might post some memory benchmarks here, those are not my primary goal ;)

btw: the gskill i posted is also CAS5...

Actually, most memory timings have little effect on overclocking if you use dividers to manage net memory speed. The point jaust was making was that higher speed tend to have looser timings. In reality, memory timings yield nearly zero usable system speed improvements, other than obscure benchmarks. Real system performance tends to be dictated by CPU clock and disk speeds more than anything else (and GPUs in games)

I did move my memory to PC8500 for the phenom systems I have, and its hard to say if its materially better. Everest memory benchmarks are much faster, sometimes nearly 20% faster (especially with ganged operation). So I have to believe that overall system performance is better.

Its probably worth if for PII as they are designed to work with faster memory in the first place. The cost differential is usually minimal, so you might find that you have a more flexible environment to play around, if you get memory that can go 1066