Another SS

[sdumper]

Well I have just cleared my bench so im starting the planning of another SS.

Parts list:
Compressor: SC18CLX.2
Condenser: http://cgi.ebay.com/Condenser-for-Re...2.m153.l 1262
Evap: Chilly1 Spiral edition
Dryer: Spun copper from under-the-ice
Accumulator: 1 diameter 8.5 inch long copper tubing capped at the ends with holes drilled for suction line. Captube will run through...
Starter: Goemler Express
Cap tube: 10 feet .042 cap tube 10 feet
Suction line: 3 feet braided suction line
Flexline insulation:
Braided Sleeving: Black
Gas: R507
Enclosure: Reinforced metal frame with sheet metal siding and painted gloss black
Fan shroud : Custom built by me



Trying something a little new see below:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/Caprouting.jpg

[Kepons]

Man, thats nothing new :D . It's nothing more than a poor SLHX

[[XC] Oj101]

I'm not sure what's different about it? :shrug:

[sdumper]

Man, thats nothing new :D . It's nothing more than a poor SLHX


Its never been tried by me before :--)


I'm not sure what's different about it? :shrug:

Instead of wrapping the captube around the accumulator and suction im running inside of the accumulator and suction ...

And any advice on an easy way to do this without kinking the cap would be greatly appreciated ;)

[[XC] Oj101]

*fails to see the point*

Please enlighten me :D

[[XC] gomeler]

Rather than dealing with the thermal barrier between capillary tube and walls of the accumulator, he will be inserting the capillary directly into the gas stream, making it more effective at boiling off any residual liquid refrigerant.

[[XC] Oj101]

Thanks for the explanation :up:

[Buckeye]

Thats just how my unit is made, except the cap tube comes up from the center of the evap and directly into the suction line. It does not go outside the evap then into the suction line.

[sdumper]

Thats just how my unit is made, except the cap tube comes up from the center of the evap and directly into the suction line. It does not go outside the evap then into the suction line.

After chatting with Chris he was telling me the same thing but I still dont see how I can make this work.

If I ran it all the way to the bottom of the suction and sprayed my liquid all over the base of the evap from inside of the suction I cant see how it will have time to cool anything....

Also the Spiral has the cap spraying at the top of the evap and then getting pulled down to the base where the suction is.

[[XC] gomeler]

With a Chilly1 evap, you can feed the capillary line through the suction line, into the evap, and up the spiral. It takes a little bit of extra effort but it is worth it. I used to do this but I stopped for some reason, I think it might have been when I had to butcher an evap to swap the capillary line.

[sdumper]

gomeler;3681638'] I think it might have been when I had to butcher an evap to swap the capillary line.

LoL yep I can see that as being a major PITA :)

[EvoCarlos]

i like the idea of putting the cap tube up the suction line not sure on the gain of putting in on the inside of the acc tho
it works for vapo ls's so i cant see why it wont work here :)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k262/evocarlos/water%20cooled/vapo/Image006-2.jpg

but center feed thru the evap is best if you going to put it in side the scution line saves going in then out again at the evap

[[XC] gomeler]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k262/evocarlos/water%20cooled/vapo/Image006-2.jpg


Now that is a familiar image.. can't tell how many Vapos/Machs I've seen like this. Hell, even one of my builds had this happen. Think you pack it well and poof :(

[NCspecV81]

OOOOooo Can I haz? What kinda load is this gonna be able to do? please say 300w+

[sdumper]

It should do the same as my last one:

-32/-33 on evap at 300+ watts....
CPU die will remain frozen but im not sure of cpu die temps probably -5c because that is a very high load.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00315.jpg

[ultralo1]

And any advice on an easy way to do this without kinking the cap would be greatly appreciated ;)

Find a piece of round bar stock (5/8 or smaller). Start wrapping.
The easiest way i have found is to striaghten out the cap tube. lay it flat on a table. Put the mandrel on one end and start rolling/wrapping. Kinda like rolling a string onto a dowel.

[Buckeye]

After chatting with Chris he was telling me the same thing but I still dont see how I can make this work.

If I ran it all the way to the bottom of the suction and sprayed my liquid all over the base of the evap from inside of the suction I cant see how it will have time to cool anything....

Also the Spiral has the cap spraying at the top of the evap and then getting pulled down to the base where the suction is.

Yeah mine are not Chilly1's and are designed to have the cap tube come in from the top center and then go into a bottom chamber. It's a 2 chamber desgin.

[sdumper]

Find a piece of round bar stock (5/8 or smaller). Start wrapping.
The easiest way i have found is to striaghten out the cap tube. lay it flat on a table. Put the mandrel on one end and start rolling/wrapping. Kinda like rolling a string onto a dowel.

Thank you sir!!!!

[sdumper]

Ok some of the parts have arrived and im back at this.

Cap will run through the suction into the evap and wrap around the Chilly1 spiral evap to the top.
Cap will also be coiled inside the accumulator and then the accumulator will have copper padding inserted down the center of the cap coil.
Accumulator itself is a 8.5 inch long copper pipe with a diameter of 1 inch and capped at both ends. The far end will have a second hole drilled in it to feed the cap tube out.

[Buckeye]

Ok some of the parts have arrived and im back at this.

Cap will run through the suction into the evap and wrap around the Chilly1 spiral evap to the top.
Cap will also be coiled inside the accumulator and then the accumulator will have copper padding inserted down the center of the cap coil.
Accumulator itself is a 8.5 inch long copper pipe with a diameter of 1 inch and capped at both ends. The far end will have a second hole drilled in it to feed the cap tube out.

Bingo, sounds like you got planned out well :up:

[sdumper]

What a pain to snake the cap through and wrap around the evap....

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00320.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00319.jpg

[Buckeye]

Looks great tho !

I wonder how much it will restrict the flow in there tho... seems that cap tube pretty much fills up those grooves. Know what I mean ?

[sdumper]

Looks great tho !

I wonder how much it will restrict the flow in there tho... seems that cap tube pretty much fills up those grooves. Know what I mean ?

I was wondering the same thing but hoping folks have done this successfully before and would chime in before I braze it.

[sdumper]

Well i wrapped it tighter and feel like I have enough room now...

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00324.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00323.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00322.jpg

[EvoCarlos]

it does look better :)
but i dont like it :( but i spose it dont relly matter which end it comes in goes out :)

[sdumper]

it does look better :)
but i dont like it :( but i spose it dont relly matter which end it comes in goes out :)

You mean because the chilly1 spiral has a suction hole at the base and the cap feeds at the top?

[runmc]

If you wanting to run it through the suction line, just have it exit the suction right before the evaporator. :shrug:

[EvoCarlos]

You mean because the chilly1 spiral has a suction hole at the base and the cap feeds at the top?

:) i mean i dont like the cap tube wapped in the evap i think it would be better feed in like ron said :) feed from the top then sution from the bottom no-cap-wrap:rofl:
but then it may make no diffrece at all
i do no its a pain in the ass if you have to remove the cap tube from a chilly1 like that once its brazed up took me 20mins on a stove with plyers and many tools to get it all out of the spirals :(
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k262/evocarlos/water%20cooled/airwell%20ac/Image134.jpg

[runmc]

EvoCarlos -

I love your shop - it makes me feel :yepp: "at home" :welcome:

[sdumper]

gomeler;3681638']With a Chilly1 evap, you can feed the capillary line through the suction line, into the evap, and up the spiral. It takes a little bit of extra effort but it is worth it. I used to do this but I stopped for some reason, I think it might have been when I had to butcher an evap to swap the capillary line.

Ive actually gone round and round with how to do this (no pun intended :) ) and eventually decided to try wrapping up the spiral after reading the post above.

I have a back up evap and captube is cheap so I think ill give it a try the way I have it and if it doesn't perform well then I'll try it the other way with a different evap.

Unless you guys are pretty sure this is a bad idea...

[Jor3lBR]

Wow dumper that's amazing, in a market that we read everyday that people can't deliver their promised goods you keep popping one after the other like it's kids play!

[runmc]

I don't know if it's a good idea or bad idea. Your blowing me away with the 300w load so I'm going to keep my mouth shut and listen.

Do you 300w heater cartridge inside a block of copper? or two 150w or what?

[sdumper]

Two 150 watt cartridges from DetroitAC in parallel.
Its this setup:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3593816&postcount=36

[runmc]

nice one - I think that's how ruffus does his :up:

[sdumper]

sdumper here's the info on copeland compressors also found it uses split condensor run/start
there is tons of info for setting setup refridgeration on the emmerson site (https://literature.emersonclimate.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LitrProdDispView)

Thanks If I am reading this correctly I just wasted 700.00 plus dollars on compressors.

Does HT mean high boiling point and LT mean low boiling point?

[Jor3lBR]

HT= high temp, non freezing evap
LT= low temp, a freezing evap

10800 BTUH

1390 Watts

So you need a LT for single stages and cascades right?

[sdumper]

Thats just great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sdumper]

Never mind I Just talked with Goemler and these compressors will be perfect for cascades.

My first prototype 2 stage simple cascade will use 2 of these as a proof of concept but that is still 4 weeks away because I have two more build to complete first..

[teyber]

People often run high temp compressors into vacuums for great temps- look at every european cascade :p:

Not good for the compressors but feel free to use $800 copeland cascade compressors :/ lol not down

[supercoolin]

People often run high temp compressors into vacuums for great temps- look at every european cascade :p:

Not good for the compressors but feel free to use $800 copeland cascade compressors :/ lol not down


Many many years ago I read a design paper on the use of rotary vane compressors in extreme vacuum applications and what they talked about is that as the suction side goes into vacuum the oil volume through the compressor is seriously reduced. By putting a good oil seperator into the system and piping the oil return back into the suction port instead of the crankcase, you maintain your oil flow through the compression camber allowing long periods of vacuum operation. LT model compressors are designed to keep pulling oil into the liquid system even in low vacuum, where HT model compressors have limited oil injection. I might be a little off, but that is the jist of what I read many years ago.

[sdumper]

Mod please remove the copeland compressor posts from this thread :)

Back on topic.
Ran out of Acetylene and had to use Mapp to finish my brazing. I had a horrible time finding and repairing links in the accumulator because of bad brazing.
As soon as Airgas opens monday I am filling up my Acetylene tank and hope to never ever ever use Mapp again because it takes for ever to get hot enough for my rods to flow smoothly.

Anyway I am pressure testing at 200psi right now and will need to borrow the starter from my first i7 build but luckilly the cable is long so all I need to do is unplug from the first and plug into the second while I tune. The intended starter for this build arrives I believe Monday but I need to double check with Chris. Also note I spaced the components far appart because I will be using some rather larger fans on the Condenser shroud Im making and this build will be put into a rectangular steel case.

Anyway a few picts (note I will clean up the accumulator with a wire brush latter today once im sure its leak free):

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0833.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0831.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0830.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0829.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0828.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0827.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0826.jpg

[[XC] gomeler]

Never mind I Just talked with Goemler and these compressors will be perfect for cascades.

I never said the compressors were perfect for cascades but that they will suffice. Builders have been using compressors in unhealthy applications for years and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Supercoolin has the concept down correctly, oil is used to seal the compression and insure minimal compression leakage, permitting low temp (and high pressure ratio) operation. As always this is only information I've gathered from books but it makes sense when comparing that knowledge to my knowledge of rotary and reciprocating automotive engines.

I think these compressors would be even better used in an autocascading application, the inherent low operating pressure ratio of an autocascade would suit them better.

[sdumper]

Can a mod please cleanup this thread so that it covers just my SS build the compressor im using is a Danfoss and not a Copeland ;)

:--)

We can always open a second thread and debate the use of copeland compressors in SS, Cascade and Autocascade use ... lol

Back on topic:
Im using .042 cap and it is running inside the accumulator in a coil all the way down the suction and wrapped around the evap so that I am feeding from the top of the evap and sucking at the base of the evap.

I found another leak and repaired it and then increased pressure to 250psi where I will leave it sitting for a few hours before I pull a vacuum.

[Moc]

People often run high temp compressors into vacuums for great temps- look at every european cascade :p:

Have you see anybody using LBP rotarys? :D If you use an oilsep and have a proper design (good compressor and discharge temps) it is okay.

[sdumper]

Have you see anybody using LBP rotarys? :D If you use an oilsep and have a proper design (good compressor and discharge temps) it is okay.

Thanks MOC

[teyber]

Can a mod please cleanup this thread so that it covers just my SS build the compressor im using is a Danfoss and not a Copeland ;)

:--)

We can always open a second thread and debate the use of copeland compressors in SS, Cascade and Autocascade use ... lol

Back on topic:
Im using .042 cap and it is running inside the accumulator in a coil all the way down the suction and wrapped around the evap so that I am feeding from the top of the evap and sucking at the base of the evap.

I found another leak and repaired it and then increased pressure to 250psi where I will leave it sitting for a few hours before I pull a vacuum.
A few hours?

Just to be safe you could try to pressure test for a couple days, im currently pressure testing somethign that stayed at 300psig for 2 days on the third it dropped to 298/299... and now its at 297. Those tiny leaks will kill you especially once its out to customer

[sdumper]

yes sir thanks :)

[sdumper]

Ok no one mentioned it so it looks like I might as well :)

My accumulator is almost vertical and it also has the cap coiled inside of it adding residence and collision surface area. The oil is obviously heaver than vapor refrigerant so it will tend to sink towards the base of the accumulator. So is this going to be a problem?

[sdumper]

Well this is a new twist...look at the suction line its not frozen all the way through....maybe pressure issues?
Wonder what will happen under the load tester...right now I have it charged at static 100psi and 145psi high while running no load.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00326.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00327.jpg

[teyber]

Keep in mind, if your using a slhx your going to be raising your suction pressures and temperatures.

[sdumper]

I agree but still shouldnt see the suction line acting like that...

I may have too much oil in the compressor. I wish I had a way to accurately check how much was in the lines and the compressor so I could remove some and feel comfortable.

[tiborrr]

People often run high temp compressors into vacuums for great temps- look at every european cascade :p:

I see what you did there! :D

[sdumper]

Well this build is not performing like it should so im cutting it up, replacing the compressor and using carefully measured POE instead of mineral oil, replacing filter/drier and flushing the suction line with alcohol.

Then I will try it again. If still not satisfied i will go back to externally wrapped cap tube.

The good news is that I have my Acetylene and Oxygen tanks refilled so I dont have to use MAPP...

[sdumper]

Now that I have chopped this up to swap out compressors and such I have a question.
Please take a look at the angle of my accumulator and let me know if it would work better angled the opposite direction.
Also my copper pad has finally arrived should I unbraze the ends and stuff the interior with copper pad? I already have coiled cap tube inside which provides some collision surface area for the return gas.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0826.jpg


Im also thinking about swapping out the condenser with another I have which is about twice as large.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00333.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00332.jpg

[Buckeye]

Well I havent built a Phase yet but that condenser looks huge. Would it take a lot more refridgerant with a condenser that size ?

[sdumper]

it would take more yes but it would also provide for a lower condensing temp under heavy load. Thats where the accumulator changes come in so that I avoid the annoying popping/pinging of floodback.

[SexyMF]

Slow down and troubleshoot one thing at a time. Why did you not remove 100ml of oil when you thought you had to much? Did you put a load tester on this?

[sdumper]

Slow down and troubleshoot one thing at a time. Why did you not remove 100ml of oil when you thought you had to much? Did you put a load tester on this?


Yes I put a load tester on this and it crashed at 150 watts and at 100 watts it dipped down to -10c on the evap :(.
Increased pressure still no good. Anyway, I drained oil last night and am going to replace the filter drier and flush the radiator with denatured alcohol. I am also going to flush the suction line because I am going to reuse because I dont think its my issue.

Not too concerned about trouble shooting slowly because im not under time line pressure but I am curious about the angle of my accumulator.

Anyway in case anyone is interested here is the order of what I am going to try after I flush the condenser/suction of oil..

1) Replace the compressor with another and use POE this time instead of Mineral.
2) If that doesn't help then I will re-angle the Accumulator the opposite orientation.
3) If that doesn't help I will swap out the cap and evap and wrap the cap instead of going through the suction. I really don't think this is whats causing my issue but if all else fails...

One of those should solve the issue but im leaning towards the compressor oil being the culprit.

On another note I'm still itching to try one of those 1hp copelands and that huge condenser :--)

[Moc]

Before all this, measure your superheat and most important subcooling.
What should be wrong with the compressor oil??

[tiborrr]

Does superheat theory even apply to the capilarity tube metering systems? :shrug:

[sdumper]

Before all this, measure your superheat and most important subcooling.
What should be wrong with the compressor oil??

It was shipped with the caps over suction and service open and so I drained the POE and add Mineral oil 150...

[Moc]

Does superheat theory even apply to the capilarity tube metering systems? :shrug:

Of cours is important to measure it. I give you an example:
ALL VALUES ARE DEVISED!
Unit A:

Loaded with 250W
Evaporation Temp: -40°C
End of evaporator: -39°C
Superheat: 1K
Subcooling: 0-1K

Subcooling seams to be okay (should get not higher than 3K, if it does, cut) but superheat is to low (normally I have 3-5K).

-> Massive floodback without load. Even with load, the accumulator evaporates liquid refrigerant.
-> Captube is too long. Now you add 40cm.

Loaded with 250W
Evaporation Temp: -47°C
End of evaporator: -43°C
Superheat: 4K
Subcooling: 1-2K
-> Perfect.
In idle, the accumulator evaporates liquid refrigerant like he should.
With load, there is only gas returning and the acc. is only heating the gas a bit.


_________________________________

A accumulator should just evaporates refrigerant during idle!

Now Unit "Uneffective" :

Loaded with 250W
Evaporation Temp: -38°C
End of evaporator: -34°C
Superheat: 4K


Condesor outlet: 25°C
The high side manometer says we have a condensing temp of 55°C / 22bar.
Subcooling: 30K

Superheat is okay, but subcooling is way to high. The unit just works, because the builder filled to much refrigerant and the HSP rised so more refrigerant goes through the capillary tube.
But now the compressor has a high power consumption (eg. 450W).


Cut captube and you'll measure this:


Loaded with 250W
Evaporation Temp: -38°C
End of evaporator: -34°C
Superheat: 4K


Condesor outlet: 35°C
The high side manometer says we have a condensing temp of 37°C / 15bar.
Subcooling: 2K

Now the unit is accuratly tuned. Now, the compressor draws just 300W.

[ruffus]

well i can say that the 2 times i tried this (putting the cap tube inside the suction line) i had some how messed it up and the cap tube was blocked some what and it gave me the same resolts that u are getting once i changed the cap tube the system ran like it was intended to.and since it is one of the cheapest things to replace i know my self this is where i would start at. but before u do this i would check superheat and subcooling as it can help u work out what is wrong

[sdumper]

Worth a try :)

[teyber]

just $.02 most likely worthless. it seems like the only difference between this build and the last KILLER build is the internal cap tube. Rather then replace expensive components what about trying to emulate the previous build? like ruffus said.

haha reading back a couple posts so many things for you to try. just an idea.

cheers

[sdumper]

Well the evap is different too because this Teyber dude keeps dragging his feet on making more of his evaps:p:

[sdumper]

--Kept same compressor but drained the mineral and replaced with POE, also shortened cap tube slightly and replaced filter drier.
Currently pressure testing at 300psi (12 hours so far). I am expecting some Robinar oil today so wont be able to vacuum until it arrives but with any luck Ill start tuning on Sunday.

[sdumper]

-EDIT- I know I need to set the date/time on my camera :) The date is today 3.15.2009

Frustrating my vacuum pump died after 2 hours and the vacuum was 10000 microns so not at all what it should have been. Well I tried a charge just because I was curious and really couldnt do much else.

Heres what happened and hoping a reclamation deep deep vacuum and recharge will cure this but here goes:

Start -44/-45c:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0834.jpg

-45/-46c
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0835.jpg

-47/-48c and start of water vapor freeze up or air maybe not sure ?????
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0840.jpg

Starts to defrost in the middle of suction and continues from that point...
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0842.jpg

I'm really hoping that all I need is a reclamation, deep vacuum and recharge with fresh r507 to solve this problem. I haven't had water in my lines so am not sure what the tell tale signs are but considering all the rain we had recently coupled with warmer weather and my lack of ability to pull a deep vacuum im hoping that's what I'm seeing.

[runmc]

Did you happen to notice what low and high side pressures were doing?

[sdumper]

Low side gauge isnt working accurately but high side was at 170psi I think I really didnt look after it started to drop but I gues it would go up right?

[ruffus]

do u think that it could just be the cap tube heating up the suction line enough to melt the frost on that spot on the suction line. now not sure if this is right but it makes me think u might have a small obstruction in the cap tube and is making it heat up in that one spot nere the end of the cap tube. i could be way off on this one but it looks like something that had happened on one of the systems i made with the cap tube inside of the suction line.

[sdumper]

Could be..dont know for sure but I am going to give it a deep vacuum and see if that clears it up.
Question: because im using POE and have charged my system with refrigerant do i need to drain the oil or should I be able to extend the vacuum time to say 24 hours or so and still boil out the moisture?

[Buckeye]

Mine is inside the suction line, but its fully insulated with 2 layers. I would like to see if mine does that also but in no hurry to take off all that insulation.

With that problem aside what is the performance like of this unit ?

I think your setup is very close to mine, build wise that is. Could be wrong.
My Accumulator is horizontal tho.

I have my unit torn apart now, I will try and throw up some pic's so you can compare.

Unloaded mine is -53c.
With a Core I7 965XE sitting at idle stock settings it's -46c
With a Core I7 965XE sitting at idle with a 4.5ghz OC it's -38c
Lowest I have seen this unit, same as above but with 4.6ghz OC and 3DMark06 CPU Test #1, -29c
My QX9770 at 4.9ghz 24/7 OC ran normally at -34c

[sdumper]

With that problem aside what is the performance like of this unit ?





Buckeye unfortunately this doesnt mean much until I resolve the problem because by the time it hits -54c the suction is mostly thawed ...

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0843.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0844.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0845.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0846.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/173_0847.jpg

[SexyMF]

First port of call is leak testing. Second is to slap a light load on it (50W) and see if you get the same behaviour.
I would also whip out the hair dryer and heat portions up to clear any frozen water obstructions (if any).
Can you hear the refrigerant being pumped into the block?
Does the unit frost up completely (after it goes whacky) if you leave it for an hour or so?

My suspicions are that you have a leak.

[sdumper]

My suspicions are that you have a leak.

I had it under 300psi of nitrogen for 35 hours and it held pressure also soaped all joints and no bubbles.

Regarding water in system how do I get water out of the system after its been on and has cycled through the cap and suction. According to this I am going to have a hard time boiling the water away.


"All POE oils are highly hygroscopic. That is, they absorb moisture quickly and hold the moisture they absorb. Once absorbed, the moisture cannot be removed through system evacuation even at vacuum pressures of 500 microns. Therefore, it is important to prevent moisture from getting in the oil in the first place. The general recommendations for handling POE oil is to keep it in a metal container, transfer it with an oil pump and keep the container sealed except when absolutely necessary. POE oils are also irritating to the skin and a real medical concern if it comes in contact with your eyes. Gloves and safety glasses are essential items when working with this oil."

[sdumper]

New vacuum pump arrived today. Is it a waste of time to dry and deep vacuum this thing to get any water out considering I used POE and dumped refrigerant on top of that?
I was also thinking of draining the POE out the service port while add a flow of nitrogen through the high side to help flush the condenser, evap, cap, accumulator ect..


Hmm It sounds like my POE my actually vaporize if I go to low....

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15384

Also couldnt help noticing the last post had the name ultral01 :--)

[sdumper]

Ok after deep vacuum and repair of a leak which didnt show up until 350psi :(
I have my issues resolved and am starting the tuning process. Its good to see that its not having those weird instability problems now. Target is -35c at 300 watts so I have a good deal of tuning still but patience will win out.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00349.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00350.jpg

[Unseen]

one question:
Why do you keep the evap in lower position than the compressor?

[SexyMF]

k after deep vacuum and repair of a leak which didnt show up until 350psi

There is a point where you really need to use leak detectors over snoop/bubbles.

I have not had water freezing issues, even in test rigs which were built with no filter and vacuumed with twin freezer compressors.


What side was the leak on??

[eligray]

Sry to bring back something from back in the thread's early days, but I know that Drewmeister over on EOCF isn't a big fan of subcooling. The arguement for it makes sense to me, but the argument is that subcooling increases low side pressure. It makes my head hurt to think about whether you'd want as much as possible, so I'll let you work that out for yourselves. Just something to think about :)

[sdumper]

one question:
Why do you keep the evap in lower position than the compressor?

No reason just a long suction and it happened to hang that way.


There is a point where you really need to use leak detectors over snoop/bubbles.

I have not had water freezing issues, even in test rigs which were built with no filter and vacuumed with twin freezer compressors.


What side was the leak on??


Leak was in my accumulator I could have sworn it was leak free but dagumit it wasnt :(

[sdumper]

idles nicely ...
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00355.jpg

[eligray]

very nice man!

Exact same unloaded temps as my SS :D

[sdumper]

very nice man!

Exact same unloaded temps as my SS :D

uncanny what cap size, compressor, gas, evap accum size ect did you use when you built it?

[eligray]

Well I guess I can't really call it "my" SS. :)

I bought it from Ruffus here at XS. The unit is using r507, the evap is custom made from an LGA775 HSF, and the suction accumulator is just a 15" long, 6" tall U-shaped length of pipe. Sorry, I do not know the compressor or capillary specs.

Your unit is lookin' great man :)

[SexyMF]

eligray, you really have to use a mollier chart to determine whether subcooling is beneficial or not.

Glad things are working for you now sdumper

[sdumper]

eligray, you really have to use a mollier chart to determine whether subcooling is beneficial or not.

Glad things are working for you now sdumper

Thanks mate :)

[tiborrr]

But now... it's really a prime time you do something about aesthetics of the units. Pipe bender for 20-30USD should do the trick, as well as bolting down the components prior piping.

This is now your... like 5th unit already? You have become quite a busy builder :up:

[sdumper]

Tiborrr I use a pipe bender, have not painted or insulated

Send me a link of some examples in a PM please that you would like me to look at for comparison?

[tiborrr]

For example, straighten out your desuperheater so it will be paralel to your condenser, do the same with SLHX. There is a lot of fine jobs that can be done to make unit look more professional, it doesn't need much to gain effect you want.

[teyber]

I think his pipe work has improved a lot :D

tiborr everything you mention could be fixed by hand in about 30 seconds

[tiborrr]

tiborr everything you mention could be fixed by hand in about 30 seconds
That's my whole point, teyber! So little work for such a noticable effect!

P.S.: Keep up the good work Scott!

[sdumper]

Tuning is done and moving on to building the case and insulation.

[[XC] gomeler]

Wasn't this a recovered build though, some of his original pipework? He's improving nicely, give him a few more builds and it'll look proper. Great to hear the system is working correctly, a damn shame about that minuscule leak, those are always a bummer.

[sdumper]

gomeler;3741133']Wasn't this a recovered build though, some of his original pipework? He's improving nicely, give him a few more builds and it'll look proper. Great to hear the system is working correctly, a damn shame about that minuscule leak, those are always a bummer.

Nope

Guys I still think my pipe bending is fine ;)
I straightened the desuper coil but was going to anyway ... :--)

So many critics here :ROTF:

[sdumper]

Ok just mounted the fans and they are working good but one fan is not as strong as the other so I will pick up a matching fan at Frys tomorrow.

Note I haven't cleaned the pipes and painted yet so please excuse the mess :(


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00358.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00360.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00362.jpg

[eligray]

maybe replace the wood with some sheet metal next time :)

No worries though, it looks great :)

[SexyMF]

Bah.....results over looks any day.

[sdumper]

Wow looks like some content was lost....

These were the final picts in case anyone was curious:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00396.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00399.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00400.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z294/sdumper/IMG00401.jpg