shuttle AN50r or Gigabyte K8N?

[Stinger]

What do you guys think? Any1 tested both? Wich one shall I buy?
And I'm not talking about lan or sound Just pure overclocking? I know there is Agp lock but what about Pci-lock?

[Donebalp]

Originally posted by Stinger
What do you guys think? Any1 tested both? Wich one shall I buy?
And I'm not talking about lan or sound Just pure overclocking? I know there is Agp lock but what about Pci-lock?

Don't get the K8N pro from Gigabyte. The bios does not have timing adjustments for the ram.

At least the one I have does not or I am the dumb one and cannot find them. :smileysex

[Donebalp]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
lmfao don on bios main screen press and hold alt+F1 :):):):):)

hehe asl me anythingAMD and i ussaly have an answer

Damn..When I get home tonight I will have to try that. I was about to give this thing to my wife and upgrade her system and wait for the P4EE's to be available..LOL

Again this is the 150.00 dollar model and it does not mention this in the manual sir. :D

Your 100% sure about that Jay?

[LardArse]

Originally posted by Stinger
What do you guys think? Any1 tested both? Wich one shall I buy?
And I'm not talking about lan or sound Just pure overclocking? I know there is Agp lock but what about Pci-lock?

The Shuttle's pretty good for 1:1 high FSB action.
Here are some benches of 277 x 9.5 1:1 fastest timings.

Aquamark with R9800P @ 567/427:
60711
http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?runID=1951266997

8625 CPU 11565 Memory
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm=1586136

And I'm trying to stabilize it for 3D mark at 277 x 9.5, here's 175FPS Lobby high

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/goodlh.JPG

The CPU's the limit here, on chilled liquid, she wont do more without more voltage or cooling.

[macci]

Looking good there lardy! :D

out of curiosity.. how do you excatly set it to 9.5 x 277? obviously you cant load to windows at 10x277 and then lower it down to 9.5x and also there is no tool to increase FSB above 250 in windows for nf3? or is there? :)

or does this work:
boot up => set multi to 9.5 w/ clockgen => restart => multi remains at 9.5 => up to 277 from the bios => load OS at 9.5x277

[[XC]thewildblue]

I thought that ctrl F1 did the Advanced BIOS settings on Gigabyte boards.

[Donebalp]

Originally posted by thewildblue
I thought that ctrl F1 did the Advanced BIOS settings on Gigabyte boards.

Yes it is ctrl F- my friend....I beat alt-f1 to death and then went crazy hitting keys finally found it....

:stick:

[Donebalp]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
lmfao don on bios main screen press and hold alt+F1 :):):):):)

hehe asl me anythingAMD and i ussaly have an answer

Hey jay please send me some BIOS info on this giga smack. I found the advanced settings but still not sure which is the FSB to CPU ratio changer my friend. any changes in the advanced mem area and I get notta but beeps.....

I need to change from the 1:1 setting if possible.

I feel like an idiot with this thing. :mad:

[LardArse]

Originally posted by macci
Looking good there lardy! :D

out of curiosity.. how do you excatly set it to 9.5 x 277? obviously you cant load to windows at 10x277 and then lower it down to 9.5x and also there is no tool to increase FSB above 250 in windows for nf3? or is there? :)

or does this work:
boot up => set multi to 9.5 w/ clockgen => restart => multi remains at 9.5 => up to 277 from the bios => load OS at 9.5x277

Heheh thx macci. Its as simple as you've said, lower FSB first, then a multi change, then a reboot with a higher fsb set in bios. I just need to remember to switch back to a lower fsb when I turn it off :D
For the Shuttle board, the NV util is capped at 250 even if I set my rig to 9 x 280. And even though I can see my timings, changing it gives me an error. Though it would be nice to see if I could do 2.0,2,2,3 like I could on the Nforce2 :)

[LardArse]

Ok, 277 x 9.5 3D Mark is done. My new high, 27375 points with 175.5 FPS for Lobby high
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7187708

Just below Oppainter :D
That is until you guys start benching again ;)

[macci]

Most excellent benching again :toast:

I'll try to get this Gigabyte board near that soon :)

btw, have you tried this with NVutil:
load nvutil, save the .ini file at some speed,close nvutil, edit the FSBMHZ value in the .ini file to say 260MHZ, load nvutil and load the ini file you just edited, it should then adjust the FSB to that speed.

I found that the other .ini file in the nvutil folder has some settings for MAX MIN values but it was only for voltage settings, maybe you could add some max min value for the FSB and AGP there too.. just need to know what values to add :P

its looks like this:
[NVK8-CRB]
agp_min = 1.5
agp_max = 1.8
agp_increment_step=0.1
core_min = 1.5
core_max = 1.7
core_increment_step=0.1
cpu_min = 0.8
cpu_max = 1.75
cpu_increment_step=0.025
mem_min = 1.6
mem_max = 2.0
mem_increment_step=0.1
aux_min = 1.4
aux_max = 1.8
aux_increment_step=0.1

there is also some registry settings for the util but nothing much there:
NVSysUtildbgFSB = 0

[LardArse]

macci, I've tried playing with ini file and registry changing the zeros to ones but no go for now, can't even switch FSBs without error message.
Right now I'm testing out 280 x 9.5, here's the sisoft unbuffered.

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/280siunb.JPG

CPU seems to be burned in a little after these 3D Mark runs, now at least I can do a Lobby High run at 280 x 9.5. 176.7 for Lobby high.

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/176lh.JPG

I'm gonna off the PC and let the chiller go bottom low and then shoot for a 280 x 9.5 3D Mark run.
macci, I'm sure you'll pass that when your Gigabyte is set up.

[macci]

Getting better and better all the time...I think that with say 2.8GHz CPU speed and that FSB/RAM it would get awfully close to FUGGERS P4EE ;)
*cough* put some dryice on it and do a 280x10 1:1 run *cough* :D

[Donebalp]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
ok there should be a setting or there was on the chaintech for

mem freq.
200=1:1
166=5:4
133=3:2
100 2:1

as for the rest I always had auto detect on as mushkins auto's are 2-2-2-6-11-16

some of the others you need to change possibly are.

3x LDT change to 2.5x up to about 240mhz depending on 3.3v line and ddr voltage..

next what ram are you tring to use ATM?? these boards are the worst ever for ddr compatibilty :( if your running ran thats not fullt JEDEC spec'd to run at ddr400 and this even means alot of pc3200/pc3500 corsair and other pc3200/3500 brands..

this could be a casue of your isseus..

try one stick first untill you get a max fsb/cpu 1 256meg stick if ya can..

BTW SORRY IT WAS CTRL+F1 :( my bad, lol

NP that helped. I was using Kingson PC4000 ram at cas 3. I took it out and put my 3500 HyperX in and it is working much better now. How high should 1:1 FSB go with this ram sir?

at 10x230 now :rolleyes:

[LardArse]

Managed to wring 177 FPS Lobby high from her but that run crashed during Car chase

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/177lh.JPG

Did a run at 279 x 9.5 and upped score to 27390 to take back #3 spot, but had a bad Lobby high run with that and wasted a maximum Nature run

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7188698

Heheh thx Mickey, won't be possible without your constant "Win2K reminder" :D

[macci]

Damnit looks like I really got 'the wrong' gigabyte board - the non-pro K8N. It seems to be impossible to boot up at lower multi cos it will always set it back to 10x in the boot up.
also the "940 bios trick" doesn't work on this since the BIOS file is only 256k version, the K8N Pro uses 512kB. That 940 bios would have given CPU multi options in the BIOS and also more RAM settings.
Anyone got the original K8N non-pro bios which still had all the RAM settings? I got the F5 (says its first release) from there site and flashed it in but still can't get all the RAM setting that were available with the shipping BIOS.

With the current BIOS and settings this board is some 4-6FPS slower than K8V in Lobby hi at stock speed :P

[LaserEdge]

Its interesting reading about how the other nForce 3 boards are doing. My Chaintech board is driving me nuts. I just can't seem to get 250Mhz FSB stable. 3dmarkloops just keep crashing to the desktop. I have tried a million and one things. I can Prime 95 the CPU at The ZNF30a13 bios finally lets me adjust DDR timings. It also has an interesting clock buffer skewing feature for DIMM slots 2 & 3. It still doesn't fix the problem.

Thinking about giving another nForce3 board a try for change while I RMA the Chaintech. Maybe the Leadtek K8N since no one has tried that board.

[Henry]

Originally posted by macci
Anyone got the original K8N non-pro bios which still had all the RAM settings? I got the F5 (says its first release) from there site and flashed it in but still can't get all the RAM setting that were available with the shipping BIOS.
[/B]

I have that bios (F4 bios) Macci, i can mail it to you, what's your email ?

BTW i use K8N Non Pro too, with OCZ PC4000 i can bench 3DMark2001 / SuperPi etc at 250 FSB 1:1, the problem is the bios "read" SPD timing of memory. If you run at 200+ FSB you can't changet the timing too much. My Twinmos PC3200 BH-5 (SPD 8-3-3-cl2.5) can stable at 243 FSB 6-3-2-cl2.5, 2.85v, but if i change to cl2 or trcd 2 it CAN'T DO 3dmark even at 210 FSB :( this memory CAN do 230 FSB 5-2-2-cl2 2.83v on 8RDA+. I think this mobo need Corsair LLPT or Mushkin PC3500 Level II to run at high fsb and agressive timing.

[LardArse]

Macci, then can you down multiplier in windows and then use the Giga's utility to up the FSB for your benches?

[Henry]

Gigabyte Easy Tune max out at 250 FSB only :(

[macci]

henry => macci@akiba.fi
thnx :)

[Henry]

Originally posted by macci
henry => macci@akiba.fi
thnx :)

Email sent :)

[LaserEdge]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
this is a board I want to see macci try :) not easy at all IMO ;)


The stability problem with 3d graphics on the chaintech at high FSB is definitely releated to memory timings. Even if the memory is passing goldmem the system can still crash to the desktop with 3dmark loops. Figuring out the right memory timings for stability takes a great deal of paitence. I discovered this when I finally got 240 Mhz FSB stable. So I figure 250 Mhz FSB might work with the same timings. Of course it didn't. I will try playing with it more tonight. Yes, the Chaintech is quite challenging to overclock.

Oh, if anyone needs the latest Chaintech BIOS just shot me a PM.

[LaserEdge]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
its not that hard I ran my chaintec nf3 at 257-260 1:1 thus 3 weeks of benching at super high VC clock "560/400+"

Atleast that was the experience with the board you had. Perhaps the board I have just has something strange. I'd be willing to ship my Chaintech to you or Bowman if you want to see how it works out. It might atleast help my sanity. :)

[charlie]

good stuff, guys...

C

[LaserEdge]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
na the boards do have issues, but its alot of users error as these boards are such a mess to get to work right it will and in your case drive any normal persom mad, lol

I am definietely not a normal user. I don't think many people here can tell you about the exact in workings of all the DRR timings and how they interact with each other. In the past I have written a C++ model of DDR module. I think that by itself is way more that any overclocking I have ever met can claim.

In this particular case I would say it has nothing to do with ones knowledge of DDR timings. If you can offer a detailed explanation of why lossening tRAS by 1 cycle would make 3d mark loops go from being stable to unstable while keeping everything else constant then I would be impressed. Just saying you got one board to run at 260Mhz doesn't really help me or anyone else here interested in high FSB overclocking. I need details!!! What was it that exactly made you think the Chaintech was challenging? How did you come to that conclusion? What did you do to get around the problem?

Don't take offense at my reply please. I am a computer engineer and I live off concrete facts. I have to know the underlying cause to the problem I am experiencing or it drives me nuts. Having the breakthrough momments of understanding what was exactly going on is the stuff I love about overclocking. So yes solving some problems can drive ya nuts at times. But, finally solving/understanding them just makes you that much more skilled and knowledgable the next time around.

[LaserEdge]

No offense taken Jason. I'll keep reading and plugging away it. I am sure eventually I will make a breakthrough.

[DoGMaN]

Anyone know what the voltage options are like on the shuttle? I ahve 2 Via boards here and I'm less than impressed.

[LardArse]

Without volt mods, here are the voltage options:
Up to
1.7v vcore
2.8v vdimm
1.9v chipset
1.5v LDT

[macci]

the gigabyte isnt the overclockers choice IMO for high 1:1 clocks...
I dunno about that, I've seen aircooled SuperPi 1M run at 272x9.5 1:1 2-2-2-5-8 (32sec) on this board :)

[Henry]

Originally posted by macci
I dunno about that, I've seen aircooled SuperPi 1M run at 272x9.5 1:1 2-2-2-5-8 (32sec) on this board :)

What memory are u use ?? Vdimm ?
And how to set it to 9.5x272, via windows or bios ??

Thanks :)

[xDUCK]

Originally posted by LardArse
macci, I've tried playing with ini file and registry changing the zeros to ones but no go for now, can't even switch FSBs without error message.
Right now I'm testing out 280 x 9.5, here's the sisoft unbuffered.

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/280siunb.JPG

CPU seems to be burned in a little after these 3D Mark runs, now at least I can do a Lobby High run at 280 x 9.5. 176.7 for Lobby high.

http://bravo.ausgamers.com/lardarse/lard/176lh.JPG

I'm gonna off the PC and let the chiller go bottom low and then shoot for a 280 x 9.5 3D Mark run.
macci, I'm sure you'll pass that when your Gigabyte is set up.

Is it just me or is that memory bandwidth horribly screwed up?! :confused:

[macci]

its not horribly bad (I think it should be in the 2600MB/s range as I get 2500 at 265 1:1 or so on K8V), its single channel unbuffered bench and sandra hasn't detected the correct FSB speed and because of that it doesn't give quite correct score.

[xDUCK]

Originally posted by macci
its not horribly bad (I think it should be in the 2600MB/s range as I get 2500 at 265 1:1 or so on K8V), its single channel unbuffered bench and sandra hasn't detected the correct FSB speed and because of that it doesn't give quite correct score.

Ahh, I didn't take into account that it was single channel. I'm still thinking in terms of nForce2. :) :smileysex