S.S. Destroyer (The mothership sets sail!)

[n00b 0f l337]

Let's get a change of pace going here people.
We need improvement! We need to find something new other then the same ol' single stage and cascade. For a long time we've done the same thing; maybe changed gases along the way, but the same systems again and again.
Now alot of us have pushed autocascades, and not many have shown a working proof, so I've been trying for a long time to push that even farther. A working proof in a size we can use, a single stage destroyer so to speak, the hydrogen bomb of the phase change community.

Settings out in this goal offers a bit of challenge.
I went with;

Less then 20% physically bigger in any "measurement" (B W H) then a normal setup. (For a long time I've had cases that are 20 by 9 by 10 for instance).
A 1/2hp compressor (or less!)
A decent noise level, but set this aside for the moment
And buildable at a repeatable scale.

So while I've been out for a long time, I already assembled a setup that matches this. The specifications so far are;
A 7cc 1/2hp Rotary
140mm Unseen Condenser
172mm Fan
Heat exchangers
Phase separator(s)
36" braided flex
Teyber Evap (Original revision)
A few valves and controls and safety thing-a-ma-jigs

So while I am still in tuning this thing (Richard is working on finding a pesky leak in the first stage of the mini cascade), I have run into some very fun things. First off, a 1/2hp 7cc rotary is NOT alot to work with. I built a single stage around these alot of times, you don't get more then -30C out of them at 250W. And that's running a high discharge temp. So the goal to beat I feel is around -50C. Certainly something like a SC18CLX.2 (wink wink to all those out there with them and who know where to get them) should surely allow a great time.

So although I am using a phone camera right now (will get the other one out soon) I will give you all some current state photos of the system before I give it the load tester!

Onto the show!
Oh and still need to insulate that suction line, it ices up rather easily. So hope the simple and nice pipework is at least a bit impressive ;)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5496/0114092242zf0.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4833/downsized0114092244ak7.jpg

Temperatures right now;
Evap : -74C
HX : -62C
Phase Sep 1: -24C
Suction Return : -4C

Running pressure unloaded: 105/8.

[INJViper]

What gases are you running?

[jcool]

Nice.. I wouldn't exactly call the noise level of a 1/2hp rotary "decent" though :p:
As for improvements, right now I'd settle for a bigger evap. The chilly1 just ain't cutting it, I am guessing it is too small for i7's monstrous die. Getting +25C after a few hours full load here, lol. Evap at -25 :rolleyes: :shakes:

[n00b 0f l337]

This ones even smaller, it's certainly going to play a huge factor I know. It's a small Teyber evap, very thin. I'll make this thing hold 250W hopefully, but I think its best suited for C2D/Dual core. And actually, this is VERY quiet at these pressures, even at higher pressures the high suction keeps her quiet. Oh and shes not even on rubbers yet ;)



What gases are you running?
These ;)
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8164/0114092303vs3.jpg

[jcool]

I know your folks definition of "quiet" all right :rofl:
Anyway nice work NoL, keep it up :clap:

[rjlewis86]

*subscribed*

[n00b 0f l337]

Oh and dimensions right now are.... 21" (including fan at front, so might get smaller if I worm that in!) by 9" by 9"!
Talk about compact!

[ultralo1]

Let's get a change of pace going here people.
We need improvement! We need to find something new other then the same ol' single stage and cascade. For a long time we've done the same thing; maybe changed gases along the way, but the same systems again and again.



How about a user tunable SS?
I have some ideas but no time to play.

[n00b 0f l337]

How about a user tunable SS?
I have some ideas but no time to play.
Cpev's easy enough, user tunable means user screwable though. So you really just want a single with a CPEV, a big accumulator, and a high pressure cut off :P

[teyber]

nice pipe work there adam :)

hope that evap holds up fine, that was originally made for a gpu but oh well :) when i get a new bandsaw blade ill cut you a peice of new pipe


the hydrogen bomb of the phase change community.

You should post load temps b4 saying this -_-

[ultralo1]

Buffer tank, TX, accumulator.
CPEV are pain and does not allow for a wide load IMHO.

[n00b 0f l337]

You should post load temps b4 saying this -_-
I've seen what it does uninsulated ;) But it is the H-Bomb, it's the ultimate end all be all, and it certainly scares most people.
I hope seeing one that works, runs low pressures, (seriously! condensing ethylene at 105psi right now with a 1/2hp roto people!), and nice pipe work, plus this will be cased nicely hopefully. Though I might end up adding an expansion tank, I do have some room still will motivate more people to try them, and maybe even buy em!

Buffer tank, TX, accumulator.
CPEV are pain and does not allow for a wide load IMHO.
Certainly, however it's the cheap way :P

[teyber]

what case will you use?

[n00b 0f l337]

Custom, going to be made out of a nice easy cleanable bright white plastic. Black highlights.

[teyber]

Custom, going to be made out of a nice easy cleanable bright white plastic. Black highlights.

cutting board won't make a nice case... polyethylene gets dirty and you need to sand it out. Good luck;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Clearly you haven't tried windex ;) It's called cutting board because its easily washed my friend.

[aenigma]

Looks good, NoL! I've been in the market for some ethylene for my old autocascade so I can really see what she can do, but i'm thinking the prices are going to kill me. I should hopefully find out tomorrow.

The nice thing about the autocascade is even with a small compressor they should still be quite a bit better than a single stage, and with a similar noise level; like a single stage+, you might say. I've added you on MSN since I am always looking to talk to somebody about the elusive autocascade. :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Different MSN ;) Prob should change that. Added you instead!
I've got it holding 150W, infact holding isn't the problem, though I want better temperatures. My HX is showing better temperatures then my evap, uh oh evap trouble ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Other then what appears to be evap trouble; the units holding 200W @ -42C, 190psi high side, 25psi low. Unloaded is still 100ish high side, 5-8low, with evap at -72C. Which means I've got r290 in my evap, which means my phase sep is flooded. I dumped r290 into this thing earlier, now time to get it out.
Tomorrow I'm going to dump the charge to a recovery tank, and try and find how pure I can get r1150 to my evap!

Have a good night guys

[SexyMF]

I think that holding a much higher and wider load range at a moderate temperature of say -30C would be more pratical than relatively low loads (for todays OC'd CPUS) at lower temperatures than is required to get very high overclocks.

[[XC] gomeler]

Not true for Phenom II sadly :( It seems to scale much better with cold compared to Core i7. Core i7 will hit 95% of it's maximum frequency on a single-stage at -30C but Phenom II will only scale to ~75% of it's maximum frequency on a single-stage. If you could hold 250w @ -70C then you'd have a simple replacement for dry ice :up:

[aenigma]

gomeler;3580347']Not true for Phenom II sadly :( It seems to scale much better with cold compared to Core i7. Core i7 will hit 95% of it's maximum frequency on a single-stage at -30C but Phenom II will only scale to ~75% of it's maximum frequency on a single-stage. If you could hold 250w @ -70C then you'd have a simple replacement for dry ice :up:

Simple replacement, or complicated replacement? ;)

I'd say it's a long-term efficient replacement, but I wouldn't call an autocascade simple, especially when compared with dry ice! These autocascades are a big pain to get holding a load. But I am sure you didn't mean simple in that way, but rather that you're not having to constantly fill a container with dry ice. Just turn it on and forget it!

NoL:
I noticed your highside increased considerably with a load. Seems to be corresponding with the lowside pressure increase and the HX temp increase caused by this. Must be time to use a couple 1.5hp compressors... :D

[[XC] gomeler]

Simple replacement for the end-user :) Just hooking up an evap to the CPU and flicking a switch, instant dry ice temps just add electricity. Building it however, slightly different story if you have no experience :p:

Adam's pressure increases are actually rather nice for an autocascade with R1150, R290, and unknown HBP refrigerant (R123 or R124a in that orange cylinder?). I've been wanting to try an R600/R290/R1150 autocascade for months, just never get around to actually buying the parts :down:

[n00b 0f l337]

The orange one is the magic one ;) Let's just say its a very OLD refrigerant.
Small changes in the HX temp govern the high side pressure. At unloaded the evap is flooding back dropping the HX temps, so pressures go way down. Adding load lowers that return gas thats helping, so you can expect pressures to go up, as to how much; thats tuning.

Ideally I think alot could be gained from another phase sep and HX here. Certainly I don't think I'm compressor limited yet; especially seeing what Mytek can do with a 9cc.

The jump from R170 to R1150 isn't really that big, ethylene really isn't that hard to condense in this system, certainly easier then in a cascade, and the added subcooling is rather amazing...

Comments on the evap; I think because it is so light it is easily one of the most reactive and efficient evaps I have seen, my load tester has NEVER been icier! However, it still cannot handle a load well, simply isn't long enough internally to handle higher loads. I think it will limit me to 200W for sure.

[tiborrr]

Orange one = R-11 or R-125?

Why all the secrecy? Mytek has shown the design of a -140°C autocascade to everyone :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Because certain people don't approve of the orange cylinder ;)
"Environmental" issues and all that.

[aenigma]

The orange one is the magic one ;) Let's just say its a very OLD refrigerant.
Small changes in the HX temp govern the high side pressure. At unloaded the evap is flooding back dropping the HX temps, so pressures go way down. Adding load lowers that return gas thats helping, so you can expect pressures to go up, as to how much; thats tuning.


gomeler;3580464']
Adam's pressure increases are actually rather nice for an autocascade with R1150, R290, and unknown HBP refrigerant (R123 or R124a in that orange cylinder?). I've been wanting to try an R600/R290/R1150 autocascade for months, just never get around to actually buying the parts :down:

Yeah, that was what I meant. Just saying the increased low side was making the high side respond just like you would imagine it would. I'm wanting to try mine with that same combination too (r290/r600/r1150) it's just the ethylene that I need to find. That super secret HBP refrigerant is definitely magic!

[n00b 0f l337]

Indeed it is, it lowers overall pressures rather heavily, and certainly creates temperatures lower then you can imagine. I'm definitly seeing r1150 saturation in it and the R290.

[Polizei]

I think I know what's in the orange tank... ;)

[[XC] gomeler]

It's canned flatulence :p:

[n00b 0f l337]

Shhh!!! It's my magic flatulence, the trick was getting it in the can through the access valve... O.o

[tiborrr]

So it's #CENSORED# :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Hey you said it not me.

[mytekcontrols]

I know what's in the orange tank; "n00bon". It's Adam's trademarked highly condensed super magic autocascade liquid goo.

Looking good :up: Although if you do add extra stages, you'll probably find that 7cc is not enough to drive it for 200+ watt evaporator loads. There are sacrifices in capacity for a given pump size when trying to add additional phase separation points. Of course you probably already knew that.

Note: Each additional stage requires yet another captube to feed it, hence either increase in combined flow rates (requires bump up in the driving force -- larger displacement compressor in order to maintain same system differential pressure), or downsizing of other captubes to keep the flow rate within the compressor's parameters (but with a sacrifice in overall heat load capacity).

[teyber]

Different MSN ;) Prob should change that. Added you instead!
I've got it holding 150W, infact holding isn't the problem, though I want better temperatures. My HX is showing better temperatures then my evap, uh oh evap trouble ;)



Comments on the evap; I think because it is so light it is easily one of the most reactive and efficient evaps I have seen, my load tester has NEVER been icier! However, it still cannot handle a load well, simply isn't long enough internally to handle higher loads. I think it will limit me to 200W for sure.

Why are you using a evaporator that has never been tested on an experimental build? Nobody has built a successful autocascade for a cpu that held a load, so now that this one isn't holding a load looks like its the one part of the build that wasn't done by you?

Buy a chilly1 and swap in on there, im sure your build will then be the "hydrogen bomb" to the community.

Also, thanks for saying this is a teyber evap, you pm'd me one day saying i need a evap shipped out today what have you got premade. i was fooling around with a little gpu evap that was tiny, i send it to you because its all i had premade and you accepted this and said nah its problably fine. you put it on an experimental auto cascade meant for a cpu, a system design nobody around here except ultrlalo1, and mytek has gotten to work then you blame it entirely on the evaporator... And now im getting pm's saying why does "My evaporator only hold 200w?" thanks...

I want to make it clear this is not my cpu evaporator but something i made on a boring summer day and never intended to sell.

[SexyMF]

So were there mass-flow calculations done for this build? Such a large condensor will impede flow.


//

I only ask because I believe the next step up for phase-change systems is calculations rather than the copying and hoping which is the majority of systems.

[ultralo1]

a system design nobody around here except ultrlalo1, and mytek has gotten to work

Just a little clarification, I only repair Autocascades, I have never designed one. (Yet)

Mytech is my HERO!!!!!

His knowledge is much more vast than mine. He is the master and I am the grasshopper.

I want the credit to go where it belongs, to Mytechcontrols.

Hijack over, back to our normally scheduled program

[aenigma]

Just a little clarification, I only repair Autocascades, I have never designed one. (Yet)

Mytech is my HERO!!!!!

His knowledge is much more vast than mine. He is the master and I am the grasshopper.

I want the credit to go where it belongs, to Mytechcontrols.

Hijack over, back to our normally scheduled program

Yeah, three cheers for mytekcontrols, that guy rocks! :up:

[V2-V3]

Any new pix?

Love the work n00B :)

[MeltedDuron]

Did this die or is it still going?

[lesstutrey]

knowing NOL it is dead, this is what he seems to do.