Auzen Forte vs ASUS Xonar Essence STX

[RealTelstar]

As the subject says.

I want to replace my x-fi fatality gamer with something that sounds better and pci-express and get rid of creative drivers.
Looks like the two cards have similar components. The auzen is more versatile, but i use only headphones anyway.

Use: 40% gaming, 60% music listening while browsing/chatting/emailing.

The Forte is slightly cheaper (or so the preorder price says). Both are not available in europe, and I would have to order from usa/canada.

[Heretic]

I was under the impression that Auzentech used modified drivers from Creative, so going to the Forte wouldn't help in that regard.

[RealTelstar]

Dunno, when i tried to install auzen drivers, they didn't work. I also wonder if they use creative asio or their own.

Auzen forte:
+lower price
+EAX 5
+X-RAM

Asus xonar essence:
+possibly better SQ (not sure)
+better drivers
-EAX 3 (or 2 whatever) limited

[Helmore]

Auzentech gets its drivers from Creative, although Auzentech does dispose of most (if not all) of the bloat that the standard Creative drivers come with. So at the core you will have drivers that are made by Creative, but they are modified by Auzentech. (AFAIK, I'm no expert)

[flopper]

I would go essence stx.
but I preordered the card so I am biased.

[Monkey101]

Dunno, when i tried to install auzen drivers, they didn't work. I also wonder if they use creative asio or their own.

Auzen forte:
+lower price
+EAX 5
+X-RAM

Asus xonar essence:
+possibly better SQ (not sure)
+better drivers
-EAX 3 (or 2 whatever) limited

AFAIK, the X-Ram does nothing on most games, and not alot of newly released games use EAX 5 :shrug: but lower price is always good. What speakers/headphones will you be using with it?

[Bradan]

I see you have Hd 595.

You would very much appreciate the amp built into the Xonar Essence STX. :)

edit: the forte has a amp too :(

Important
The xonar stx has a 1/4" jack like your 595's (big headphone jack, no stupid connector) -->STX is better
The xonar has an adjustable output impedance, the forte has 330ohm out (hd595 = 50ohm) -->STX is better
The xonar has a 110db SNR vs 109b SNR (Very close) -->STX is better
The xonar has really weak EAX suppourt (I've heard its buggy) --> Forte is better


The EAX is what it comes down to. Name the games you play that suppourt EAX, and justify the loss of the other advantages.
You also have to use creatives downloadable app to regain EAX suppourt in vista, in addition to creative's drivers, and manually add games to gain suppourt.
http://xfi.blogspot.com/2007/06/alchemy-x-fi-edition.html

[RealTelstar]

I see you have Hd 595.

You would very much appreciate the amp built into the Xonar Essence STX. :)

edit: the forte has a amp too :(

Important
The xonar stx has a 1/4" jack like your 595's (big headphone jack, no stupid connector) -->STX is better
The xonar has an adjustable output impedance, the forte has 330ohm out (hd595 = 50ohm) -->STX is better
The xonar has a 110db SNR vs 109b SNR (Very close) -->STX is better
The xonar has really weak EAX suppourt (I've heard its buggy) --> Forte is better

The EAX is what it comes down to. Name the games you play that suppourt EAX, and justify the loss of the other advantages.
You also have to use creatives downloadable app to regain EAX suppourt in vista, in addition to creative's drivers, and manually add games to gain suppourt.
http://xfi.blogspot.com/2007/06/alchemy-x-fi-edition.html

Thank you for the very accurate and useful post.

From some pictures i saw, it seemed that they had the same headphone amp, but I must be wrong.

I dont play much, but i hate when there is stutter in audio in crowded areas. I play only MMOs, single person RPG and strategy games. I'm currently playing fallout 3.

Overall, the prioriry is 60% music while surfing/writing/etc and 40% gaming.
I'd like more feedback about the Asus Essence.

[Bradan]

Thank you for the very accurate and useful post.

From some pictures i saw, it seemed that they had the same headphone amp, but I must be wrong.

I dont play much, but i hate when there is stutter in audio in crowded areas. I play only MMOs, single person RPG and strategy games. I'm currently playing fallout 3.

Overall, the prioriry is 60% music while surfing/writing/etc and 40% gaming.
I'd like more feedback about the Asus Essence.

Asus just recently changed the info on the headphone-out SNR, and it's 117 db SNR, 109-117 is HUGE!

Remember that dB is a logorithmic scale, so its allot better.
Head-Fi'ers are raving about this card, and there is a digital out for an external decoder.

Go for it. Hands down winner.

[RealTelstar]

I wonder when will be available in europe. I'm not really in a hurry :)

[Bojamijams]

STX is the new king of the hill in terms of sound quality.

I have a prelude that I ditched as soon as I heard this. I also hated auzentech drivers.. had huge memory leak issues and DDL didn't always work.

Couldn't be happier with the STX.

[RealTelstar]

Looks like ETA in italy is the first week of february. I can wait :)

[Bradan]

STX is the new king of the hill in terms of sound quality.

I have a prelude that I ditched as soon as I heard this. I also hated auzentech drivers.. had huge memory leak issues and DDL didn't always work.

Couldn't be happier with the STX.

I just got my Denon AH-D2000 :D.

What sound card did you upgrade from?

[16floz470ml]

The Xonar has only one pro as I see it. It might possibly sound better with music if you go by the specs. If I just wanted to listen to music I might buy it.

My thinking is that if I am going to buy a sound card I want it to add performance to my system. It is a fact that the Xonar is software based and will take cycles away from your cpu and decrease performance in games. The Forte will add performance in games no matter what. It is hardware based and the game does not have to support x-ram for this to happen.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

The forte is incredible, I have heard of many problems people have with the Xonar, my forte has none :D

[Donnie27]

Looks like ETA in italy is the first week of february. I can wait :)

I'll start by saying I'm X-Fi Biased. I like the Forte Better and the Xonars isn't Bad except I'd never install it in a Gaming Fig. I love Music too and also like to analog record from time to time. If the Forte can record as well as the Prelude, it will be hard to beat.

I just have to correct one thing mentioned in this Thread. Many First Shooters Do in FACT support EAX 4 or higher. EAX only adds to OpenAL that most new games use. Last Halflife 2 add on, Brothers In Arms Hell's Highway, STALKER CS, Fear 2, Crysis Warhead, Call of Duty 4 and World at War and many more. No, that Xonar hack doesn't work with them:ROTF:

Most folks I know complaining about bloat, never even tried this so called bloat. Anyway, Creative's drivers gives a Performance install option that installs only those must have controllers and drivers.

Music Wise? I just put a Burr Brown Opamp on my sound card and it was my 4th swap. I don't think anything about very SLIGHT differences to YOUR taste any sound will make that much difference=P My Cans (DT-770 Pro 80)sounds like I might blow them at about 65% volume:up: Again, I'm X-Fi Biased. After Auzentech came up with a lower Price for the Forte, that makes it hard to pass up.

$129.99 ($109.99 after $20.00 Mail-In
Rebate )

The card I heard for Music and Games is well worth that price.

Off topic. If Creative doesn't improve its hardware, layout and yes drivers + apps, they'll not be around next year.

[Bradan]

I'm not sure about that. There's a large number of us completely sick of creatives bull. I bought a card less than 2 years ago, and the driver release for vista has only the console, no eq, no cal, no stereo surround, I need to use alchemy to get EAX aswell.

I'm fairly sure you've never heard EAX, because you have to have alchemy installed, and add games manually to use EAX in vista.

The xonar STX destroys the forte in terms of hardware, layout, components, DAC, amp section and overall sound quality from a good bit of reading I have done.

Go ask head-fi! (They might be a little crazy)

So EAX aside when considering the use of alchemy in vista, the forte doesn't have much going for it. It will be unsuppourted in a year or two, and that's a huge, lame dealbreaker to me.

[Blankeee]

Get the STX. Can't comment on Auzentech but have been using Creative cards including 2 X-fi's in the past. Noticed immediately a major improvement in sound quality with the STX. Simply put the sound sounds crisper, richer, and adds a whole new level of immersion in various multimedia. The campaign in Call of Duty 4 sounds insane! I've got Swans M10 speakers and they're finally reaching their potential.

Added to this the installation is no fuss no muss. No bullsh-t software, driver updates actually work, software has a very small profile; it really is a night and day comparison here. Also speaking for myself I always thought EAX was a little bit of a gimick and doesn't really add a whole bunch to the overall audio experience-but that's just me.

But to be fair this is Auzentech not Creative here. And from what I understand Auzentech really brings the X-fi chip to its full potential with cleaned up software and drivers among other things.

But if anything if price isn't a concern you could simply get the STX just based on the physical appearance of the card... It's a very classy and sophisticated looking piece of hardware.

Anyway this is my first ASUS card and I don't plan on going back to Creative any time soon.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

the Auzentech drivers are superb for vista....

also auzentech has the "What U Hear" unlike creative nowadays. its verynice (borat)

[Bradan]

the Auzentech drivers are superb for vista....

also auzentech has the "What U Hear" unlike creative nowadays. its verynice (borat)

leveling is nice for obnoxious apps I agree.

[Donnie27]

the Auzentech drivers are superb for vista....

also auzentech has the "What U Hear" unlike creative nowadays. its verynice (borat)

Maybe something didn't install right. I have Vista-MCE on my HTPC with X-Fi Platinum that has the "What You Hear" for Entertainment and Creation/Recording modes feature.

[Donnie27]

I'm not sure about that. There's a large number of us completely sick of creatives bull. I bought a card less than 2 years ago, and the driver release for vista has only the console, no eq, no cal, no stereo surround, I need to use alchemy to get EAX aswell.

I'm fairly sure you've never heard EAX, because you have to have alchemy installed, and add games manually to use EAX in vista.

The xonar STX destroys the forte in terms of hardware, layout, components, DAC, amp section and overall sound quality from a good bit of reading I have done.

Go ask head-fi! (They might be a little crazy)

So EAX aside when considering the use of alchemy in vista, the forte doesn't have much going for it. It will be unsuppourted in a year or two, and that's a huge, lame dealbreaker to me.

Just as there are large numbers who aren't having problems but who counting a few hundred quiet millions vs a few thousand nosey ones:rofl:

Xonar distroys the Forte:rofl::ROTF: Right;) Yes, Head-fi is full of head cases.

[Soulburner]

Get the STX. Can't comment on Auzentech but have been using Creative cards including 2 X-fi's in the past. Noticed immediately a major improvement in sound quality with the STX. Simply put the sound sounds crisper, richer, and adds a whole new level of immersion in various multimedia. The campaign in Call of Duty 4 sounds insane! I've got Swans M10 speakers and they're finally reaching their potential.

Added to this the installation is no fuss no muss. No bullsh-t software, driver updates actually work, software has a very small profile; it really is a night and day comparison here. Also speaking for myself I always thought EAX was a little bit of a gimick and doesn't really add a whole bunch to the overall audio experience-but that's just me.

But to be fair this is Auzentech not Creative here. And from what I understand Auzentech really brings the X-fi chip to its full potential with cleaned up software and drivers among other things.

But if anything if price isn't a concern you could simply get the STX just based on the physical appearance of the card... It's a very classy and sophisticated looking piece of hardware.

Anyway this is my first ASUS card and I don't plan on going back to Creative any time soon.
Completely different hardware.

Too many people relate Auzen to Creative, and I can kind of understand why, but its getting old. Completely different companies. Auzentech cards are top notch and there is no justification to not buy one just because you are tired of Creative. They use the X-Fi chip to build their own implementation of a superior sound card with different components.

If the Forte is anything like the Prelude (and I'll assume it is, can't be that different), it will rock. The software is light and stable, mine has been set-it-and-forget-it for a long time now, save turning off CMSS whenever I game (so proper 5.1 is used).

[Blankeee]

Completely different hardware.

Too many people relate Auzen to Creative, and I can kind of understand why, but its getting old. Completely different companies. Auzentech cards are top notch and there is no justification to not buy one just because you are tired of Creative. They use the X-Fi chip to build their own implementation of a superior sound card with different components.

If the Forte is anything like the Prelude (and I'll assume it is, can't be that different), it will rock. The software is light and stable, mine has been set-it-and-forget-it for a long time now, save turning off CMSS whenever I game (so proper 5.1 is used).

That's why I said I, "can't speak for Auzentech" and "this is Auzentech not Creative here". I was basing my opinion more on my personal satisfaction for my own STX; sorry if it came off like I was bashing the Forte. I'm sure Forte and the Prelude are excellent sound cards but so is the STX.

But I should have also mentioned that I really don't play games all that much (but in the ones I do the STX is sublime) and most of the sound coming from my STX is from music or an occasional movie. In this regard I don't really think you could get much better than an STX without spending quite a bit more.

[16floz470ml]

But if anything if price isn't a concern you could simply get the STX just based on the physical appearance of the card... It's a very classy and sophisticated looking piece of hardware.

WTF?

[ToTTenTranz]

View Post
But if anything if price isn't a concern you could simply get the STX just based on the physical appearance of the card... It's a very classy and sophisticated looking piece of hardware.
WTF?

:rofl:
Yep, the physical appearance of the soundcard I buy is also very important to me. Right next to the smell of the toilet paper I use, in my list of the most important things.




I'm not sure about that. There's a large number of us completely sick of creatives bull.
There's an equal ammount of people who are sick of creative bashers, who look like old ladies trying to convince their grandsons that having sex is bad for your health (because their priest said something like that 30 years ago).
And mainly because they all come up with the same arguments that show they have as much knowledge about soundcards as I have about cooking chinese food.

FWIW, I don't know a thing about cooking chinese food.




X-Fi cards: big processing brains with good or less-good analog components (depending on the model/price).
Any Asus soundcard: zero brains with good or less-good analog components.
The cards with good analog components only make a difference from the less-good components if we're using speakers that cost as much as a high-end gaming pc. This does not include logitech Z5500 and klipsch multimedia stuff or anything at that level/price point.
I wonder if this was simple enough to follow..

[Blankeee]

pssshhh.... glad you found the joke funny :)

anyway i'm not much of an audiophile; you could probably school me in the technicalities of the matter... but all I know is that from my layman's perspective compared to my last 2 creative x-fi's my overall experience thus far with the STX has been like a breath of fresh, wholesome, juicy, melt-in-your mouth air. Could an Auzentech X-fi have served me better? Hell if I know I didn't buy one so I guess I never will.

This thread is kinda old and the OP probably already came to a decision but if not judging from the arguments of both sides.... I don't think you could go wrong either way.

[Bradan]

I like how that guy gave no credit to the 117 SNR of the ciruit and AMP. That's a ton better than the 109 of the forte, dB is a log scale.

Theyre different cards, but I'd rather have nice music vs. the EAX. I've never been wowed by it, EAX4 that is, over top of standard OpenAL.

If you saw what I have for drivers for my audigy 4, you would change your mind.

[ToTTenTranz]

I like how that guy gave no credit to the 117 SNR of the ciruit and AMP. That's a ton better than the 109 of the forte, dB is a log scale.

1 - SNR values listed by the manufacturer usually don't mean real values.

2 - You would need a high-end sound system (by high-end I mean at least a $4000 sound system) or headphones (>$400) to ever begin to notice such an objective difference through an analog connection. That pretty much excludes 99.9% of the people in this forum.

[Bradan]

1 - SNR values listed by the manufacturer usually don't mean real values.

True, but hardwarecancucks actually tested it, and its 117db.



2 - You would need a high-end sound system (by high-end I mean at least a $4000 sound system) or headphones (>$400) to ever begin to notice such an objective difference through an analog connection. That pretty much excludes 99.9% of the people in this forum.

Very true. I always forget about everybody else.

[Donnie27]

1 - SNR values listed by the manufacturer usually don't mean real values.

2 - You would need a high-end sound system (by high-end I mean at least a $4000 sound system) or headphones (>$400) to ever begin to notice such an objective difference through an analog connection. That pretty much excludes 99.9% of the people in this forum.

QFT! But some are too busy bashing to understand.

[Donnie27]

I like how that guy gave no credit to the 117 SNR of the ciruit and AMP. That's a ton better than the 109 of the forte, dB is a log scale.

Theyre different cards, but I'd rather have nice music vs. the EAX. I've never been wowed by it, EAX4 that is, over top of standard OpenAL.

If you saw what I have for drivers for my audigy 4, you would change your mind.

The Forte doesn't ship with a 109db, that's the Xtreme Music they're talking about.


Sound: With a D/A converter of 120dB level, high end audio components, and an analog design tuned for peak performance, the X-Fi™ Forte is designed to provide the best audio possible for Music, Games and Movies. End-users can further tune the audio via the replaceable OPAMP for the front audio (L/R).

[ROBSCIX]

To note, The Forte will produce about 117db SNR. -Measured.

These are both great cards but they are meant for very different users types.

[Bradan]

To note, The Forte will produce about 117db SNR. -Measured.

These are both great cards but they are meant for very different users types.

* 115.0 dB A-weighted (1kHz @ -60dBFS, 24-bit/48kHz) for Stereo analog outputs
* 109.0 dB A-weighted (1kHz @ -60dBFS, 24-bit/48kHz) for Multi channel analog outputs

I didn't notice that the stereo outputs had 115db.

[ROBSCIX]

Actually, I just had a look at my results again and it is about ~115dB (act. 115.1 dB measr.) so those specs are fairly accurate. I mixed up the spec with another card.

Also your other post is a bit off about the STX, the STX has a SNR of about 124dB. If you measure the card you will get about a 117dB SNR which is why you quoted that # I suspect.

There are many reasons why that number would come up for the STX but mainly because if you do a loopback test with the STX you will hit the limits of the recording section which is 117 dB.

[Bradan]

Actually, I just had a look at my results again and it is about ~115dB (act. 115.1 dB measr.) so those specs are fairly accurate. I mixed up the spec with another card.

Also your other post is a bit off about the STX, the STX has a SNR of about 124dB. If you measure the card you will get about a 117dB SNR which is why you quoted that # I suspect.

There are many reasons why that number would come up for the STX but mainly because if you do a loopback test with the STX you will hit the limits of the recording section which is 117 dB.

The RCA speaker outputs are 124dB, and the 1/4" RTS headphone outs are 117, as per ASUS's statement. I didn't measure anything myself.

[Smiddi]

I ended up buying both of these cards and weighed them up against each other.

IMO: for music you simply cant beat the STX, it sounds AMAZING. But its crux is games. I tested about 7 games and id say the STX was average to good.

As for the Forte, it does music very good, but no where near as good as the STX.
For games; the Forte owns, every game game played perfect.

The Forte makes you want to play all your GAMES again to hear what you have been missing.
The STX makes you want to listen to all your MUSIC again to hear what you have been missing.
One downside to the STX is that you’ll want to rip all your music again at a higher bit rate (it’s that good, you CAN notice the difference).

Depends what you want the card for really?
- im a gamer, so i have kept the Forte and I sold the STX.

I posted my review here:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=766494
.

[Gilhooley]

The RCA speaker outputs are 124dB, and the 1/4" RTS headphone outs are 117, as per ASUS's statement. I didn't measure anything myself.

I'm surprised that ASUS haven't been sued over this yet.. But then again its only the fools that fall for it :rolleyes: or not.. They cheat by boosting the voltage output, which damages your equipment - and gives high readings in crappy programs like RightmarkAA :down: Feel free to compare SNR with +1000$ cards.

[Gilhooley]

I ended up buying both of these cards and weighed them up against each other.

As for the Forte, it does music very good, but no where near as good as the STX.
For games; the Forte owns, every game game played perfect.

.

Change to Audio Creation Mode with samplerate 96khz and used an ASIO player for best performance..

[Bradan]

I'm surprised that ASUS haven't been sued over this yet.. But then again its only the fools that fall for it :rolleyes: or not.. They cheat by boosting the voltage output, which damages your equipment - and gives high readings in crappy programs like RightmarkAA :down: Feel free to compare SNR with +1000$ cards.

1) The Forte has 115 dB SNR
2) The Xonar Essence has 117dB SNR
3) The 124dB SNR is on the coax outs, that have no amp attatched to them, so how the voltage is boosted is beyond me.
4) You're conspiracies make no sense :up:


Change to Audio Creation Mode with samplerate 96khz and used an ASIO player for best performance..

Oh, had I known upmixing the sample rate from 44.1khz to 96khz sounded better, I would have done it sooner. :up:

I can't tell when music is bitmatched and neither can you. It's for audio mixing. :up:

[Gilhooley]

1)
Oh, had I known upmixing the sample rate from 44.1khz to 96khz sounded better, I would have done it sooner. :up:

I can't tell when music is bitmatched and neither can you. It's for audio mixing. :up:

You clearly know a lot about analog bitrates :rolleyes:

[Bradan]

You clearly know a lot about analog bitrates :rolleyes:

did you just say "analog bitrate"?

[Godofwar424]

Can somebody give me some info on the Auzentech X-Fi Forte drivers. I installed them on build 7100 and they work but I cannot enable dolby digital live or DTS interactive!!!! Its really annoying because it stops me being able to use it as my main os for gaming and everything else.

[Godofwar424]

Hi

I had problems with my Auzentech X-Fi Forte and Windows 7. My problem was that I couldn't enable Dolby Digital Live or dts Neo:PC because the Creative Audio Service Wasn't running.

Here is how to solve this error.

You need to dl the latest driver from Auzentech's website then run the setup.exe in compatibility mode with Windows Vista Service Pack 1/2.

To do this.

Right click on setup.exe and select Properties--Compatibility

The image below is what your Compataibility area whould look like.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk216/Godofwar424/Help.jpg

After youve done this run the setup.exe and install as per usual

Enjoy!

[Donnie27]

1) The Forte has 115 dB SNR
2) The Xonar Essence has 117dB SNR

There are other reasons to say the XE sounds better, trying to say your Ears can tell the difference between 115 and 117 dB isn't on of them=P


3) The 124dB SNR is on the coax outs, that have no amp attatched to them, so how the voltage is boosted is beyond me.
4) You're conspiracies make no sense :up:

Sending out data via digital has NOTHING to do with Signal To Noise Ratios. Prior to sending data, a bad sound will be sent the same way as a good one=P Then the final output source will determine the final sound. You ought to be glad the other guy was being nice to you. You sound like one of those folks who went out and paid $75 for a 12ft RCA "Monster" Coaxial cable:rolleyes:



Oh, had I known upmixing the sample rate from 44.1khz to 96khz sounded better, I would have done it sooner. :up:

I can't tell when music is bitmatched and neither can you. It's for audio mixing. :up:

First of all, bit- matched is for recording! On playback, it will not have an affect unless like me, you use DVD-Audio and etc..... To do real tests for audio playback, they mean use the best SETTING meant for truer music playback. Not setting colored or tuned for Games or Movies! Surely you get that, right? I don't have a lot of respect for so called Audiophiles

You make a Recording Analog at 2ch 24bit/96KHz of something like an Analog source. Then you use a Lossless compression app like Flac or etc.. to compress it into something manageable. Try it and see? Also, can your sound card process data fast enough to "Time Shift"? X-Fi can do it flawlessly! By time shift I mean speed up or slow down the music without affecting the tone quality!

[TheCool]

I own the x-fi forte and while I actually prefer the xonar dx I had for movies and music, for games, I much prefer the forte.

[Bradan]

There are other reasons to say the XE sounds better, trying to say your Ears can tell the difference between 115 and 117 dB isn't on of them=P

It's funny how when I try to be objective about the comparison, you go on the subjective-defence to justify your purchase.



Sending out data via digital has NOTHING to do with Signal To Noise Ratios. Peior to sending data, a bad sound will be sent the same ways a good one+P Then the final output source will determine the final sound. You ought to be glad the other guy was being nice to you. You sound like one of those folks went out and paid $75 for a 12ft RCA "Monster" Coaxial cable:rolleyes:

When I said coax, I meant composite, and yes they are infact analogue, and they do in fact have a 124dB SNR. I didn't mention digital out at all, you just read what you wanted, and made a stupid reply. No, I don't buy overpriced digital carrying cables, but would try to stick to medium-high quality, shielded analogue cables.



First of all, bit- matched is for recording!


It can be used for recording! It's also for playback.



On playback, it will not have an affect unless like me, you use DVD-Audio and etc.....

Bit-Matching guarantees the information from the source to output are exactly the same. I can use bit matching on MP3, FLAC, WAV anything I feel like. It's pretty impressive you bought audio DVD's though :up:.



To do real tests for audio playback, they mean use the best SETTING meant for truer music playback. Not setting colored or tuned for Games or Movies! Surely you get that, right? I don't have a lot of respect for so called Audiophiles

I'm not sure what you're reffering to by they and tests, but your grammar confuses me. Bit-matching does not reduce colouring comapred to non-bit matched, it allows for 0 mistakes in the bitstream output. You can't argue that any errors would perceivably colours the sound.

EDIT: Wow, Mr. Beyer 770 is talking about colour. LOL.

I don't have a ton of respect for people who act like they know what they're talking about on these matters :/



You make a Recording Analog at 2ch 24bit/96KHz of something like an Analog source. Then you use a Lossless compression app like Flac or etc.. to compress it into something manageable. Try it and see?

I think you would be very hard-pressed to discern 320k-MP3 and CD/FLAC., let alone CD and DVD-A. It's pretty impossible I think. Download an ABX tester and try it using a FLAC file, and the same file converted to 320k MP3.



Also, can your sound card process data fast enough to "Time Shift"? X-Fi can do it flawlessly! By time shift I mean speed up or slow down the music without affecting the tone quality!

I don't have that feature on my sound card, and I'm not sure why you're boasting the processing power of a sound card, or do I recognize what such a feature would be used for. An application could easily do that on a CPU.

[RealTelstar]

I think you would be very hard-pressed to discern 320k-MP3 and CD/FLAC., let alone CD and DVD-A. It's pretty impossible I think. Download an ABX tester and try it using a FLAC file, and the same file converted to 320k MP3.

24/96 vs 16/44.1 is quite easy to recognize if the former is a master recording and not just an upsampling.

I agree between 320k mp3s and lossless/wav.

[MNX1024]

I was wondering, how is the drivers for the xonar essence stx in windows 7 RC?

[Donnie27]

It's funny how when I try to be objective about the comparison, you go on the subjective-defence to justify your purchase.

I never saw you post anything objective at all.


When I said coax, I meant composite, and yes they are infact analogue, and they do in fact have a 124dB SNR. I didn't mention digital out at all, you just read what you wanted, and made a stupid reply. No, I don't buy overpriced digital carrying cables, but would try to stick to medium-high quality, shielded analogue cables.

You mentioned COAX, to use it, you have to go digital. If you made a Mistake, that's fine just admit it and move on. I called an Opamp a DAC, Rob corrected me and corrected the mistake, I thanked him and moved on. You made the mistake so plase don't dig a deeper hole? NOTE, COAX or RCA used for digital out doesn't need to be thick, made by Monster and or shielded. It is pretty hard to mess up a digital signal BTW! I use think shielded RCA cables for my Analog out. I use them again to connect my New School Harmon Kardon Pre-Amp to the Old School Harman Kardon very Powerful Twin Power AMP on my 730!

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112218

The H-K receivers, including the 730, all sound excellent. It has separate power supplies for each channel.....very low IM distortion...a minimum of wiring....all means it will sound better than a comparable power and priced receiver.....tighter bass, more defined mids and highs...the ability to image and have depth. Definitely worth fixing!



It can be used for recording! It's also for playback.

Right! Please note, X-Fi's SRC is NOT the same as the Audigy's. You don't need bit-match unless you're using something with a HIGH BIT-RATE, like SACD, DVD Audio, or original master recording that were made and not compressed yet.


Bit-Matching guarantees the information from the source to output are exactly the same. I can use bit matching on MP3, FLAC, WAV anything I feel like. It's pretty impressive you bought audio DVD's though :up:.

Bit matching anything except high Bit-Rate material is a worth it! Yes 24bit 96KHz Smoke on the Water, Hotel California, Listen to the Music, Tubular Bells has to be heard to be believed. If you're using CD and MP3's, you're the missing out.


I'm not sure what you're reffering to by they and tests, but your grammar confuses me. Bit-matching does not reduce colouring comapred to non-bit matched, it allows for 0 mistakes in the bitstream output. You can't argue that any errors would perceivably colours the sound.

You grammar and spelling confuses me but I can decipher it OK:rofl: I know what you're referring to, it's just wrong most of the time! You don't use bit matching for something error correction designed for.


EDIT: Wow, Mr. Beyer 770 is talking about colour. LOL.

One of 4 sets I use! But most folks here know I love speakers and have a room dedicated for it and my computer.


[B]I don't have a ton of respect for people who act like they know what they're talking about on these matters :/

Please have just a little respect for yourself then!


[B]I think you would be very hard-pressed to discern 320k-MP3 and CD/FLAC., let alone CD and DVD-A. It's pretty impossible I think. Download an ABX tester and try it using a FLAC file, and the same file converted to 320k MP3.

:rofl::ROTF: Pretty much shows just how much you don't know. I don't think I know everything and love learning what and when I can. Show me a know it all and I'll show you a fool!


[B]I don't have that feature on my sound card, and I'm not sure why you're boasting the processing power of a sound card, or do I recognize what such a feature would be used for. An application could easily do that on a CPU.

Time shift is how you to speed up or slow down a Track/s without changing the tone! Not boasting at all, just pointing out something useful instead of something out of the human hearing range, like 124db LOL!

Then one thing you have right in your posted with any amount of truth. I in fact installed the Mobo's audio on my P45. Almost all of the features worked to my surprise. Anyone with an X-Fi of any kind can test this for themselves.
Just install both in either order.

Oh and Bradan, we do have PM if you misunderstood something?

[Bradan]

I never saw you post anything objective at all.
You mentioned COAX, to use it, you have to go digital. If you made a Mistake, that's fine just admit it and move on. I called an Opamp a DAC, Rob corrected me and corrected the mistake, I thanked him and moved on. You made the mistake so plase don't dig a deeper hole? NOTE, COAX or RCA used for digital out doesn't need to be thick, made by Monster and or shielded. It is pretty hard to mess up a digital signal BTW! I use think shielded RCA cables for my Analog out. I use them again to connect my New School Harmon Kardon Pre-Amp to the Old School Harman Kardon very Powerful Twin Power AMP on my 730!

COAX
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/941462/2/istockphoto_941462_coax_cable.jpg

COMPOSITE
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Leukotic/Composite.jpg?t=1241585764

ANALOGUE COMPOSITE OUTS
http://eprim.org/i/0810/asus-xonar-essence-stx.jpg

Analogue needs sufficient shielding depending on the cirumstances, digital does not, the Xonar has both a hybrid optical/coax digital out and a 124dB SNR analogue L-R composite(RCA) out.



[url]http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112218[/url

Right! Please note, X-Fi's SRC is NOT the same as the Audigy's. You don't need bit-match unless you're using something with a HIGH BIT-RATE, like SACD, DVD Audio, or original master recording that were made and not compressed yet.


Bit matching insures the source material is outputted untouched, bit-for-bit accurate, that's it. I can bit match anything.



Bit matching anything except high Bit-Rate material is a worth it! Yes 24bit 96KHz Smoke on the Water, Hotel California, Listen to the Music, Tubular Bells has to be heard to be believed. If you're using CD and MP3's, you're the missing out.

As much as I wish I had golden ears to hear 43kHz frequencies, and discern 16bit depths from 24bit, I don't, and humans DO NOT. Most SACD/DVDA are mastered very differently, and people assume it's the high bit-depth and sample rate. If one would convert the same DVDA to CD 16/44.1, one wouldn't succeed in an ABX test (discern whether random sample is A or B) (It's worth trying). Most audiophiles assume they have super human ears, I am not one of them, I have tested my abilities objectively.




You grammar and spelling confuses me but I can decipher it OK:rofl: I know what you're referring to, it's just wrong most of the time! You don't use bit matching for something error correction designed for.

:shrug: My grammar is proper, you might want to focus on attacking the arguement sir.



One of 4 sets I use! But most folks here know I love speakers and have a room dedicated for it and my computer.

Sorry, I assumed that was your main set of headphones for critical listening, and I still assume they are, since you'd have your best set in your sig, right?

I just thought it was strange when you started talking about colouration of the audio, while using one of the most notoriously coloured headphones on Head-Fi.



Please have just a little respect for yourself then!


I try.



:rofl::ROTF: Pretty much shows just how much you don't know. I don't think I know everything and love learning what and when I can. Show me a know it all and I'll show you a fool!

-I don't know anything
-You learn
-I'm a know it all and a fool

Really? Thanks.




Time shift is how you to speed up or slow down a Track/s without changing the tone! Not boasting at all, just pointing out something useful instead of something out of the human hearing range, like 124db LOL!

I wouldn't use such a feature.

DVD-A
24-bit (X 6) = 144db SNR
96khz = 43kHz (2 samples needed to construct sine wave)

I feel you might being a little hypocritical. the dB scale is a log scale, so you are saying that 10^(1/124) is rediculous, then saying 10^(1/144) is completely fine?

This is worth a read
http://www.atpm.com/6.03/digitalaudio.shtml



Then one thing you have right in your posted with any amount of truth. I in fact installed the Mobo's audio on my P45. Almost all of the features worked to my surprise. Anyone with an X-Fi of any kind can test this for themselves.
Just install both in either order.

Oh and Bradan, we do have PM if you misunderstood something?

I'm really glad I got atleast one reply up to your standards, I try my best.
I think we can clear stuff up well here.

[Donnie27]

COAX
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/941462/2/istockphoto_941462_coax_cable.jpg

COMPOSITE
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Leukotic/Composite.jpg?t=1241585764

ANALOGUE COMPOSITE OUTS
http://eprim.org/i/0810/asus-xonar-essence-stx.jpg

Analogue needs sufficient shielding depending on the cirumstances, digital does not, the Xonar has both a hybrid optical/coax digital out and a 124dB SNR analogue L-R composite(RCA) out.


Hey Bradan, let's start over? The last thing I need is another enemy, OK?:up:
I'm unilaterally dropping any kind of meanness from my posts to you.

Your first pic is of a Analog or Digital Video Coaxial Cable. It is has NOTHING to do with Audio at all. I see where the confusion comes from. The RCA Cable (Composite) can be used for;

A Sub's Analog Signal in,
Composite Video Signal in or out
and Analog sound In & Out.

For these uses Shielding is very good idea.

The RCA/Composite Cable serves as the COAX connection for Computer's Sound Cards Digital In and Out. For that purpose, Shielding is a rig off. So Monster selling Very think, reinforced shielded Digital Coaxial Cables are a 100% rip off. It is very hard to interfere with a Digital signal even with a Cheap $1.99 RCA cable.

ttp://www.hphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=492852&Q=&is=REG&A=details

SIIG SoundWave 7.1 PCI Sound Card with Coaxial S/PDIF OutputMfr# IC-710012 B&H# SIIC710012

Now I'm NOT about to flame you or make fun of you, hell I'd much rather try to help. Newer Motherboards Ship with RCA based S/PDIF as well Toshlink/Optical.

So Bradan, on your picture of that the Asus sound card, that bottom Grey "composite" as you called it is for the card's Digital Out. Like the other card Prelude has both as well COAX/Optical via RCA with an optical adapter. I'm sure that's (Grey) the universal color code for Digital Out just as the Orange, Lt Green, Black, Blue and Red/Pink are for the other connections.

[Bradan]

Hey Bradan, let's start over? The last thing I need is another enemy, OK?:up:
I'm unilaterally dropping any kind of meanness from my posts to you.

Your first pic is of a Analog or Digital Video Coaxial Cable. It is has NOTHING to do with Audio at all. I see where the confusion comes from. The RCA Cable (Composite) can be used for;

A Sub's Analog Signal in,
Composite Video Signal in or out
and Analog sound In & Out.

For these uses Shielding is very good idea.

The RCA/Composite Cable serves as the COAX connection for Computer's Sound Cards Digital In and Out. For that purpose, Shielding is a rig off. So Monster selling Very think, reinforced shielded Digital Coaxial Cables are a 100% rip off. It is very hard to interfere with a Digital signal even with a Cheap $1.99 RCA cable.

ttp://www.hphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=492852&Q=&is=REG&A=details

SIIG SoundWave 7.1 PCI Sound Card with Coaxial S/PDIF OutputMfr# IC-710012 B&H# SIIC710012

Now I'm NOT about to flame you or make fun of you, hell I'd much rather try to help. Newer Motherboards Ship with RCA based S/PDIF as well Toshlink/Optical.

So Bradan, on your picture of that the Asus sound card, that bottom Grey "composite" as you called it is for the card's Digital Out. Like the other card Prelude has both as well COAX/Optical via RCA with an optical adapter. I'm sure that's (Grey) the universal color code for Digital Out just as the Orange, Lt Green, Black, Blue and Red/Pink are for the other connections.

I was really tired when I posted that. Coax refers to the copper core and coppet jacket style cable. Composite is just the the style we use for audio/video, and the beefy one is for video transmissions running a long distance.

I have a full understanding of the composite analogue, composite digital, optical out, RTS 1/4", 1/8" jacks on my card.
This is no topic for arguement! :) We sound like crazies.

Though I kid you not, a guy on head-fi was arguing that a Monster Cable DIGITAL OPTICAL cable was necessary to stop EM radiation from interfering with the flow of the photons in the cable. He argued this would cause output errors, and colour the sound.

[Godofwar424]

Though I kid you not, a guy on head-fi was arguing that a Monster Cable DIGITAL OPTICAL cable was necessary to stop EM radiation from interfering with the flow of the photons in the cable. He argued this would cause output errors, and colour the sound.

Lmao there is always going to be someone who will argue his story to his death. (maybe he was over tired/drunk or high when he posted that :D)

[Gilhooley]

did you just say "analog bitrate"?

Ok - Bandwidth, if your going to anal about it.. I think you need to read up a bit on analog sound signals and think about what you do to it when you adjust your volume :yepp:

[Donnie27]

I was really tired when I posted that. Coax refers to the copper core and coppet jacket style cable. Composite is just the the style we use for audio/video, and the beefy one is for video transmissions running a long distance.

I have a full understanding of the composite analogue, composite digital, optical out, RTS 1/4", 1/8" jacks on my card.
This is no topic for arguement! :) We sound like crazies.

Though I kid you not, a guy on head-fi was arguing that a Monster Cable DIGITAL OPTICAL cable was necessary to stop EM radiation from interfering with the flow of the photons in the cable. He argued this would cause output errors, and colour the sound.

No biggie dewd! I just meant that when I said COAX on the sound card all folks in this part of the forum knows it meant RCA, that's all.

Yes, I use to go to Head-Fi and AVS but saw folks defending Shielding a Digital RCA cable. They flamed a sound engineer LOL! Some folks just went along to get along. Same thing went on in the HardOCP audio section. I'm glad to see you didn't fall for such sillness.:woot:

[Bradan]

Ok - Bandwidth, if your going to anal about it.. I think you need to read up a bit on analog sound signals and think about what you do to it when you adjust your volume :yepp:

I do understand that when the amplitude of a wave increases, the volume increases.

I'm not sure I know what you mean then, I think you were referring to either sample rate, bit depth or digital bandwidth. Uncompressed analogue signals don't have the bandwidth (information/time) and [I think] that is what you are referring to; like a bitrate of 320kbps. I'm fairly sure analogue signals have an infinite bandwidth in this respect? (Like a vinyl)

Bandwidth in respect to an analogue signal could refer to the width of an actual wave.

I do beleive analogue signals can transmit digital data (like cable and radio), but not in the context of this discussion.

I think you might be confusing digital information that is to be converted witha DAC (digital to analogue converter) to an analogue signal.