Where are the *really* sturdy pc cases?

[jc99]

I'm talking about the ones that don't bend/flex/rattle all over the place like today's 'high-end' aluminum ones. :down:

My silverstone TJ09 when fully loaded with two watercooling loops gets to be pretty flimsy and flexes when you try to push it. That plus it rattles like a tin can when you tap on it. :eek:

Apple might be shunned by pc enthusiasts, but next to my TJ09, my mac pro's case is rock solid. It's even got a rubber gasket on the sidepanel to keep it from vibrating. Plus the mac pro sidepanel alone is probably 4mm+ thick and weighs as much if not more than both the front and back sidepanels on my TJ09 combined. It's got a clever latching system too. Small things when you think about them, but they add up.

Are we due for some sort of case revolution sometime soon? When can we finally say bye to 1mm thick stamped and brushed aluminum sheets and start seeing thicker, sturdier, anodized cases that don't look like alien motherships and dwarf them in size as well?

Am I alone on this? :shrug:

[Hidetaka]

Zalman case is probably pretty solid too. ~$350 @ newegg >.>

I really doubt we'll get any solid and affordable cases any time soon cause aluminium is nowhere near cheap...



Oh, and VooDoo Omen :D

[Tile]

You're not alone. Some of them are really flimsy. I worked on a fulltower case that har 1,2 mm thick steel and the top panel was 0,8 mm thick and I had a lot of work modding it. Some case manufacturers decided to cut corners in some of their cases. To obtain a strong aluminium enclosure extruding is the way forward because extruded aluminium is way stronger than aluminium sheet for the frame and some of the internal elements. For the sidepanels 3 mm thick aluminium is up to the task.

[reberto]

I've yet to see a case that is stronger than my P180B except for other P18x cases :D But since you have 2 loops it might not be the best case for you

[Mad1723]

I'd say check for HAF932... Nice Watercooling and real solid apparently...

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Lian-Li.... I have one in my room here that I can stand a jump on and it wouldn't even flinch. I just did it ;) it even has a triple rad hole cut in the roof detracting from strength


Edit: I also just did the same thing with permafrost (PC-P80) and it only has a slight bend in the top supports when I stand on it because I dont have the top and side panels on....

[jc99]

I thought the lian-li's used similar aluminum sheets to the silverstone/cooler master cases. In any case (haha look a pun), if a case makes rattling noises when I tap on it, chances are it's probably not very rigid.

I can put hand pressure (while standing) on my TJ09 and I can feel the top flexing ever so slightly. It's supposedly 2mm thick aluminum as well.

Don't even get me started on the overabundance of "modder's mesh" I've been seeing on cases. Even the TJ09 has too much imo. They put so much on the bottom I can't even pick it up without thorough planning because it will bend/dent just by looking at the stuff. The mac pro's 'mesh' is cut out of what looks like 2-3mm thick aluminum and nothing short of a sharp blow will dent it.

*sigh*

I cringe when people say Apple products are all about looks. PCs look like crap. period. :rofl: I mean, you wouldn't exactly love driving a fast car if it looked like a turd. When are case designers finally going to evolve in their designs? :confused:

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

well if I weigh 165 pounds and if I can stand and literally jump up and down on a case with 80% of the top removed by modding without it even bending in the slightest. its sturdy enough for me.


that said i have worked with silverstone cases and the tj 07 has a nice design but it certainly isnt built strongly as the Lian-Li's (by desgin). never used an 09 but it doesnt seem as good to me....

[jc99]

Wow, the lian-li's being sturdier than the TJ07? I thought the selling point of the TJ07 was that it was mostly a one-piece extruded aluminum sheet being ~4mm thick so it was extra stiff.

Which lian-li are you talking about?

[JayG30]

I thought the lian-li's used similar aluminum sheets to the silverstone/cooler master cases. In any case (haha look a pun), if a case makes rattling noises when I tap on it, chances are it's probably not very rigid.

Not true at all. The frame of the case could be very thick and strong while the panels are rather thin which would result can cause flex in certain areas which does not mean the case overall isn't strong and sturdy, just that there is indeed flex. Aluminum, like all metal, has the ability to flex and return to normal state so this is really not a problem nor an issue of strength. Also tapping on a case or rattle noises can be completely the fault of how panels line up or quality constraint issues. It's like leaving a side panel unbolted and hanging off the case, it will rattle but this doesn't mean the case, nor the panel, is not rigid.

The reason they make cases from thinner material is because it cuts weight and price. That $400 Silverstone would be $800 if they used thicker material and honestly people wouldn't buy it. There are simpler, cheaper, and better solutions to the problem anyway. All it requires is some structural engineering background and you will know that simply throwing more material at something doesn't always mean stronger or better. In fact if the case is poorly designed from a structural standpoint it could simply make it worse.

If they wanted to do anything I rather them not make cases MORE expensive and heavier. I rather them invest in some structural engineering to make the most from what they already have. Furthermore I'd like to see them put more emphasis on quality control in manufacturing so that the tolerance levels for panel gaps and such are better. This is the primary reason for vibration which you hear from tapping the panel. Incorporating dampening and rubber in certain areas would also do wonders for this.



Don't even get me started on the overabundance of "modder's mesh" I've been seeing on cases. Even the TJ09 has too much imo. They put so much on the bottom I can't even pick it up without thorough planning because it will bend/dent just by looking at the stuff. The mac pro's 'mesh' is cut out of what looks like 2-3mm thick aluminum and nothing short of a sharp blow will dent it.


Again, Lian Li as others have said. I was just asking about this stuff and pointed out this "modders mesh" looked rather thin, like I could bent it in my hands. You just want the same thing in a thicker gauge aluminum, which than will require proper tools to conform which is most likely why the modders don't use thicker material. Lian Li uses a thicker gauge that is just like the front of those Apple G5's. Modders mesh (aka perforated metal) is not a bad idea, in fact it is a pretty smart idea since it allows great airflow, but some companies do need to use thicker material for it considering the holes already cut down on it's strength.

As far as PC's looking like crap...I don't agree at all. I think 90% of Apple products look horrible and their style gets dated so fast, not to mention you pay a premium for less performance. What you have a problem with is not the "PC", you have a problem with HP, Toshiba, Acer, etc. who design a lot of ugly cases. I personally think Dell is getting better with design. The aftermarket cases are there though, which allows you to make it look however you want.


Wow, the lian-li's being sturdier than the TJ07? I thought the selling point of the TJ07 was that it was mostly a one-piece extruded aluminum sheet being ~4mm thick so it was extra stiff.


Again you seem to not understand that pure material does NOT make a case strong. Structural engineering, do some reading on the subject and it will clear up a lot of your misconceptions.

Regards.

PS: If you are concerned about rigidity/strength/etc. than why on earth would you purchase an aluminum case? Steel is a good 3 times stiffer than aluminum.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Wow, the lian-li's being sturdier than the TJ07? I thought the selling point of the TJ07 was that it was mostly a one-piece extruded aluminum sheet being ~4mm thick so it was extra stiff.

Which lian-li are you talking about?

the one I am referring to here is the PC-101-A, its a v1000 spinoff. all lian li cases have solid aluminum support bars that are held together very well, the tj07 has no support bars just the bent aluminum and it doesn't end up beign as study as Lian-Li construction.

[Movieman]

My supermicro cube cases. I'd bet you could park a car on them.
Built like a 56 Buick:yepp:

[lowfat]

Lian Li's are nice, but no god send. Both the PC-V1000 and PC-V2000 vibrated like mad from the bar that latches the doors on. Very annoying.

[jc99]

you pay a premium for less performance.

That's been debunked many times before. But that's for another thread. :yepp:



Again you seem to not understand that pure material does NOT make a case strong.

I was just stating what was on silverstone's site. It's how they advertise the TJ07.

Thicker material won't necessarily make it strong, but at the end of the day a 4mm thick sheet of metal won't bend as easily as one 1mm thick. You can FEA a structure all day and get something to be lighter/cheaper and still within performance spec, but I'm willing to bet of two properly designed structures of the same material, the one that uses beefier material hold up better.



PS: If you are concerned about rigidity/strength/etc. than why on earth would you purchase an aluminum case? Steel is a good 3 times stiffer than aluminum.
Because they look better. :cool: You can anodize aluminum and it will look nice as is. Steel you'll have to paint or cover up with tacky plastic.

[jcool]

My Yeon Yang B0420 weights close to 25 kg when completely empty - 'nuff said (thankfully it has wheels) :cool:

Oh yeah, and you could park a car on the TJ07. The frame thickness varies between 6 and 8mm, more than enough for even the heaviest of gear. I once managed to do a TJ07 build that weighted 56 kg :rofl:

My LianLi PC201 isn't much lighter either. 13kg empty case + 14kg phase unit in the bottom + 10kg watercooling gear + hardware makes for some real carrying fun :p:

[JayG30]

That's been debunked many times before. But that's for another thread. :yepp:


Say it is debunked all you want, it doesn't change how I feel or what I have personally experiences ever since Apple first started making computers. I will not pay a premium to Apple. It's their whole business model. Just like iTunes.



but I'm willing to bet of two properly designed structures of the same material, the one that uses beefier material hold up better.


I'm not arguing that two PROPERLY designed structures, one with thicker material and one with thinner material, that the thinner one would perform better. What I am arguing is that IF constructed properly the thinner material one would indeed perform exactly the same as the thicker one or within such a close range that it would be negligible. Did you never have to do those toothpick bridge or egg drop projects when you were young high school student? You know the ones that demonstrate how important proper design is? How you can build a bridge from toothpicks that can hold tons of weight or how paper can prevent an egg from breaking even when dropped from over 50ft.

More importantly what I was trying to get you to think about is that "perhaps", even though that Silverstone case uses nice thick aluminum, it just isn't design very well from a structural standpoint. Doesn't mean other cases that use similar thickness aluminum will suffer the same fate.

[firebane]

Lian Li's are nice, but no god send. Both the PC-V1000 and PC-V2000 vibrated like mad from the bar that latches the doors on. Very annoying.

And my pc-a70 resonates like the grand canyon.

Oh and what about MM cases? They seem pretty sturdy.

[Eddie3dfx]

Mountain mods.

If you feel silverstone is flimsy, then drill out the rivets, tap, and put in nice bolts.

Don't forget about rubber pc feet.

[Serpentarius]

TJ07

it's very rigid ...

[Bobsama]

My supermicro cube cases. I'd bet you could park a car on them.
Built like a 56 Buick:yepp:

How does that compare to a 56 Cadillac?:shocked:

[Navig]

You could always build your own.



Here's 220 lbs of me jumping on top of one of my cases. (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v363/navig/Console%20Project/Final%20pics1/?action=view&current=Standdemo.flv) Well, its 3/4" MDF with dido joints and a cross brace, so it better be sturdy.



Here's me stability testing my latest case. (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v363/navig/Framer%20Project/?action=view&current=Stabilitytest.flv) Light n sturdy (notice I even accidentally bang it against the table).




I think unfortunately--for stability sake--metal stamping manufacturing is just too cost-effective. Face it, how sturdy do you really need your case to be? However, when you are hitting the ridiculously heavy range, stamped metal paneling is probably not strong enough. Now the stronger cases are combinations of metal frames and beaded metal panels. Not sure there are any pre-manufactured cases out there with a full tubular frame.



navig

[jc99]

I think unfortunately--for stability sake--metal stamping manufacturing is just too cost-effective. Face it, how sturdy do you really need your case to be? However, when you are hitting the ridiculously heavy range, stamped metal paneling is probably not strong enough. Now the stronger cases are combinations of metal frames and beaded metal panels. Not sure there are any pre-manufactured cases out there with a full tubular frame.

Oh yeah. MDF is real strong stuff. I've built all my speaker cabinets out of braced 3/4" MDF. Nothing short of a sledgehammer will break one of those.

I'm not too concerned if a case can hold up 200+ pounds of weight, I'm more concerned about whether or not it looks and/or feels "cheap." I should probably have reworded the title to something like, "where are the non-flimsy/rattly cases?" That's certainly something case manufacturers can work on without increasing the cost by much if at all.

[clokker]

The original Coolermaster Stacker (STC-T01) was one of the most over-engineered, sturdy enclosures I've ever worked with.
It had about three times the rivets/mating flange area of the average case.

Every iteration since then has been a step backwards IMO, I wish they would bring it back.

All the Lian-li cases I've worked with (about 10) struck me as flimsy and poorly engineered, but I realize that's a minority opinion on most enthusiast sites.
Personally, I'd never own one but customers seem to love 'em.

The Silverstone TJ-07 is an interesting concept but both the ones I've had suffered from sidepanel binding which I attribute to the springy nature of the main body u-channel.

Most aluminum chassis suffer from poor engineering in my experience.
Take a design which originally was built from steel, duplicate it in identically specced alloy and you have a much weaker final product- but this seems to be the way most manufacturers do it.

To successfully exploit aluminum's properties, all the joinery- mating flange size/area and rivet placement- should be completely redesigned from the ground up instead of duplicated from the all steel parent design.
An excellent example of a properly done alloy case is the Mac G5...no rattles or movement in that baby.

[jc99]

Mac G5/Pro cases are probably the only well engineered aluminum cases period. People may or may not like the looks, but as far as design and quality, they have no peers.

[Power5]

Cosmos is a nice case. Has cool latches as well. Well build, and has sound dampening on the side panel.

[Anavel0]

Mac G5/Pro cases are probably the only well engineered aluminum cases period. People may or may not like the looks, but as far as design and quality, they have no peers.

True, too bad nothing will fit in one without way more mod time than I want to put in to it.

[moiraesfate]

The Antec twelve hundred is made of steel. It doesn't bend.

[EsaT]

Real Coolermaster Stackers STC-T01 and RC-810 (not small 83x Bling stackers) and Chieftec BA-01 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811160008) would be good bets.
Chieftec has also steel side panels, front-rear support in mid case and lacks removable motherboard/card slot tray so it's probably easily stronger. (have used older smaller in depth Chieftec DA-01 and Stacker T01)




I can put hand pressure (while standing) on my TJ09 and I can feel the top flexing ever so slightly. It's supposedly 2mm thick aluminum as well.What else can you expect from flat sheet?
Main part of these "uni body" Silverstone cases is still basically flat sheet (just thicker than standard) simply bent to form bottom, front and top of the case.
Even if its couple times as thick as normal 1mm sheet it isn't strong against force perpendicular to big faces because resisting that requires lot of thickness or additional support.
Just look how big load bearing structures like bridges are built: They can be made from rather thin metal panels but those are arranged to multiple directions with cross supports making whole very three dimensional and thick in every direction. Solid piece design for same strength would be insane heavy... assuming its own weight (compared to thickness) didn't eat away load bearing capacity.
Also cars are built similarly from thin sheets.

Thicker material gives automatically higher total strength only if design is similar. You can't compare apples to coconuts!



I thought the lian-li's used similar aluminum sheets to the silverstone/cooler master cases. In any case (haha look a pun), if a case makes rattling noises when I tap on it, chances are it's probably not very rigid.Overall strength and two slightly loose light parts are entirely different things.
Lian Li A71 kept such loose rattling when I lifted it out from packet (or when tapped by finger) and I thought I would have to fix that loose attaching system in top edges of side panels.
But along the way of lining case using BeQuiet's combination mat (has ~2mm bitumen layer) that rattling disappeared.
Sure it isn't as strong as exactly similarly contructed steel case would be but it's probably also something like 35-40% lighter and entirely strong enough (also seen less rigid steel cases) to do its job when assembled:
Frame of dismantled case is always lot less rigid than complete case, even CM Stacker looses lot of its rigidity if you remove motherboard tray!

[jc99]

http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=188

I just saw the zalman GT1000 (2nd generation of their gaming cases) in person and they're built like rocks. Easily stronger/stiffer/whatever compared to the mac g5/pro cases. Even the drive bay covers are all 5mm thick. Couldn't get them to bend/rattle at all.

If it weren't for the styling, I'd be all over it.

Plus it's not *that* expensive. You can find them for less than $400 online and at microcenter it was even on sale for $207.