View Full Version : aircooled cpu pelt :)
chris4521
10-21-2003, 02:14 PM
im looking to get into this..
I had a chilled water setup, but got fed up with the mess.
Had a regular water setup, but got fed up with the mess.
I want to have a relatively quiet aircooled pelt. Im not looking to get temps like 10c or less, anything close to ambient and i'll be happy (ambient in my computer room is like 18c). What would be the route to take? and which tec would be best for an athlon xp?. I was thinking something like a 172w. Would 226w be too much for aircooling?
thanks!
It is possible and some peeps done it with great success.
I dropped an email to one of them and if he's around he'll surely help yousince his overclocks are quite respectable and he's got some considerable experience with air-cooled TECs. :)
Prometheus1
10-22-2003, 01:25 PM
Hi Jabo, got your email.
Chris, air cooled TEC's are great, but sometimes noisy. It takes a large CFM fan to cool these things so the best approach is to get as high a CFM fan as possible, and have a variable speed control on it, so you can quieten it down when its not under a load.
I use the MCX4000-T with a 92mm Vantec Tornado (119CFM at full speed) so I can keep it relatively quiet when I want to. I use a 3 speed controller, and never have to go to top speed under a load to maintain acceptable temps (load temps never get past 48C at medium fan speed).
At idle, I use the lowest speed, and still get ambient temps as long as its not under a load.
To give you an idea of what I'm cooling, I use the P4 2.8C, overclocked to 3.5gigs, 1.625vcore. I use GeIL thermal compound, and I have removed the IHS on the chip, which seems to help about 2C under a load, however, I wouldnt recommend removing the IHS to anyone as it will viod the warrantee of the chip.
The hardest part of using an air cooled TEC, is keeping the moisture down. I have found that by insulating the coldplate itself, I have far less chance for moisture to form, hence, no shut downs from moisture. I did this by using the thin foam pad that came with the MCX4000-T. I first placed it on the coldplate, and taped it on two sides just to hold it in place. After that, I set the heatsink in place, and let an imprint form on the foam from the CPU, then removed it again, and cut out the center of the foam pad, just outside where the imprint was left, so as to make sure the IHS would have perfect contact with the coldplate, but still have the greater portion of the foam pad left to seal off the coldplater.
I then removed the sticky backing on the foam pad, replaced it on the coldplate, and then sealed the edgesm where it meets the outer foam ring of the heatsink, with a clear silicone so that no air could come in contact with any portion of the coldplate that might in turn form moisture.
This works really well for me, and I have had no problems other than to have to take the heatsink off occassionally to blow the dust out.
I plan on getting the new Delta 120mm, 190+CFM asap and having even less noise. :-)
IC7
2.8C @ 3.5
GeIL PC4000 x 512 megs
ATI 9700 Pro Level 2 - OC System w/Zalman+80mm Tt Smartfan
Vantec Stealth 520A
Meanwell S320-12 PSU for MCX4000-T
Maxtor 30gig ATA/133/7200RPM
ASUS 50X CDROM
chris4521
10-22-2003, 02:21 PM
hey guys,
thanks for the replies and feedback.
you read my mind, i was thinking of the swiftech TEC HSF for AMD.
prometheus-- i have no problem in getting a large CFM fan, even if it is quite noisy. I have a rheobus with which i can control the noise level. As for the condensation, i was thinking just use what came with the hsf, and load everything but the core with dielectric grease. this is what i did with my chiller, and it worked quite well. never had any shutdowns after i did it properly, although i did have a mess up at the start, but let's not talk about that ;).
my question now is, how the heck would i mount a 120mm fan onto this beast? reason i ask this as i use an A-open full tower case with an nf7-s. As it is, there isn't much clearance from the HSF to the bottom of the PSU. i was thinking some kind of jury rig with zipties :).
Another thing, what should i power it with? I've read in a review of the swiftec mcx4000-t that the guy used a Thermaltake 420w PSU to power his (although he did note that it had ~20 amps on the 12v.) I've got an evotec 400w aluminum PSU with 25a(max) on the 12v. However, i've heard that having the 12v line loaded but no load on others could pose a serious problem. I was thinking to use this PSU dedicated to the pelt (since i only paid 70CAD for it, instead of a meanwell which i can get for about 150CAD.) so how could i wire this up and keep it from "blowing up"? or would it just be worth it to buy a meanwell pelt PSU and avoid all the problems.
once again, thanks for the help!
sandman
10-22-2003, 03:06 PM
I think you would burn out the psu...FAST.
http://www.phjrw.34sp.com/ac172a.jpg
http://www.phjrw.34sp.com/ac172b.jpg
http://www.phjrw.34sp.com/ac172c.jpg
Its a 172watt tec @ full power with 2x380cfm fans on an 8045. And no i wasnt stupid enough to put it on my cpu, it was just to prove a point ;)
]JR[
Hi Prom, good to see ya in good form :)
Welcome to xtreme m8! Great place to be indeed!
Back to the chase now ;)
I cannot agre with sandman. If you make connections the right way (if they are made poorly it additionally oads PSU beyond any control and may cause it to burn..) and you're not loading it excessively (more than 105-110% of rated amperage/wattage - you can draw more amps from 12v if it's the only line which is loaded).
I've been running my setup (see my sig) from a single ENermax 465 431watt rated PSU for quite a while (MCW50-T and ~10amps of fans are powered from separate Chieftec 300watt weakling), been overvoltig RDRAM and CPU heavil and as far as now everything is fine (12v line voltage is slightly below 12 volts).
I mentioned connections since the one provided by Swiftech just burned...
About fan placement. Imho using sth lke Zalman's bracket is the best you can, especially with 120mm fans (weight and vibrations the produce).
Don't forget about dcting/shrouding - it'll allow you to use all the cfms your 120 bruiser can produce.
Condensation proofing - you know your stff since you used chilled water setup before ;)
]JR[ - it looks like my dream TEC setup for my GPU!
chris4521
10-23-2003, 02:34 PM
hey JR. thats pretty damn cool.
did you measure the temp of the coldplate?
Prometheus1
11-07-2003, 03:47 PM
Thats the way the bottom of my MCX4000-T looks when I test it with the 92mm Tornado. The only difference being I use the 226 watt pelt in the MCX4000-T.
I tried to use my Vantec Stealth 520A to power the puter and the MCX4000-T and blew up not only the PSU, but the mobo as well. I strongly recommend getting a secondary PSU for a pelt thats going to pull no less than 24 amps (226 watt which is standard in the TEC coolers from Swiftech). If you think about it, that only leaves 4 amps even on my Vantec Stealth 520A to power other devices. Thats a bit risky in my book, and worked out poorly for me as I mentioned.
As far as how you could mod the heatsink to use a 120mm fan with it, you could make a duct to fit the 120mm fan at one end, and have it reduced on the other to 80mm. You'll have to work out the particulars on your own though. There are so many different ways to attatch it and designs you could use I wouldnt attempt to delve into that.
Note to Jabo,
Fried my chip finally. I guess pushing the 2.8C to 275fsb too many times took its toll, but its being replaced free as it was under warrantee.
Was thinking about going to a water cooled pelt setup soon. Dont know if thats the route I want to take yet though.
Stay in touch Jabo,
Prom
sandman
11-07-2003, 03:53 PM
Watercooled pelt are the way to go IMO. I mean no other way of cooling pelts can really handle the amount of heat.
Prometheus1
11-08-2003, 05:17 PM
I think he was looking more for something that would give him ambient temps though and not sub-zero. Air cooling is more noisy than water cooled, but as long as theres plenty of CFM on the heatsink he'll be ok.
You can never let your heatsink do without the right amount of air with one of these. Too much heat "could" burn the peltier out prematurely. If he follows the recommendations of the manufacturer to the letter he wont have any problems to speak of other than possibly some moisture, which is easaly avoided.
Wow, that's sweet fsb Prom, mate!
It's a pitty it burned tough...
I hope the replacement will be a 'better' ocer :)
Yeah, join the club on delve deep into sub zero temps with water cooled TECs !
Take care mate:)
Prometheus1
11-10-2003, 08:27 AM
I'll have to do some saving before I get a good water cooling rig. I just had to order a new MCX4000-T because mine bit the dust. I think its from moving those stiff wires on the peltier unit.
Its as though they are too delicate to move or something. This is the second unit thats died imediatly after a cleanup and re-grease (thermal compound renewal) so I have to believe its something I caused during break down or re-assembly.
I'll be on the phone with OC System today to see about a replacement. Next step is getting the Swiftech water cooled pelt unit maybe, and see how it works out.
jagare
11-12-2003, 05:41 AM
I read a review on the Swiftech aircooled pelt, the temps werent that much lower then regular aircooling. It just doesnt do a sufficient job cooling the TEC.
Prometheus1
11-13-2003, 12:17 AM
Having the right CFM and air pressure is the trick. Without it, yes, you will have temps close to what an average heatsink can obtain. Lets not forget that this is a performance heatsink, and needs a performance fan to achieve its "advertised" potential.
Because the aluminun pins are so tightly placed, a large amount of air "pressure" is needed to get the air where it needs to be, namely, the bottom center of the heatsink. Nothing a strong fan and a little enginuity cant fix.
I've been using one for the last 5-6 months and my temps with a low fan speed on a Vantec 92mm Tornado at idle are ambient. Temps under a load at low fan speed dont get past 48C. With the fan on high, temps at idle are 17C, 34C under full load.
I expect lower temps when I re-assemble the machine because I built a funnel shaped duct (finally got to it Jabo...hehe) to focus the air flow to the center of the heatsink. This wiil improve the pressure level as well, and hopefully ram more air into the lower area of the heatsinks center.
I havent heard of anyone overclocking a 2.8C to 260fsb/1.675vcore getting those temps out of a standard MCX4000, which is the best air cooled on the market, much less out of anything else air cooled.
I'm revamping my puter right now, but when I get it back up and running I'll try to remember to get some screenies in here for you to see if you like.
The real problem with the MCX4000-T is that it doesnt take much to make the wires short out, killing the pelt. The trick is not to take the damn thing off once its on, so as not to have to move those solid wires around any more than need be. The connection at the pelt is easaly broken.
If you do have to take it off, dont wiggle the wires in any way, and dont take the coldplate off to check the compound on the pelt. If it gets bad, you'll know it by rising temps. If temps start to rise unreasonably, ship it back and let the dealer or Swiftech fix it.
Those pelts are delicate and easaly trashed. I've been through 3 now for that very reason so I strongly advise leaving it in place after its installed, and never messing with the pelt, even to freshen the thermal paste.
I'd do a bench test on it (WITH the fan on it of course) one time to make sure it frosts the coldplate, install it, and leave it alone other than to take the fan off at times to dust it if need be.
The best plan is to filter your air flow in the case so you dont accummulate dust inside. If you can do that, theoretically, you shouldnt have to take it off again until its a must.
Be sure to use the Meanwell or whatever PSU you get for it runs the fan on it too. This takes the load off the PSU on the puter itself, and leaves the door open to connect more fans to the master PSU for circualation inside the case itself.
Prometheus1
11-15-2003, 03:02 AM
New 2.8C installed running at 250mhz fsb/vcore 1.625 temps at idle are 15C at full fan speed, 22C on low speed.
Full load at low speed 43C, 34C at full speed.
Room temp (ambient) is 74-78F.
I'd say it cools pretty good on air. What do you think? :D