View Full Version : now they want me to send the mach2 back to denmark
after the problems noticed in http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18753
and recently noticing that
1: every time i boot, evap temps drop to about -40 (but it does vary from about -37 to -42) then after a few seconds suddenly drop like a rock down to about -30 and stays around -30 (all at idle). And this is when temps were -52 idle before.
2: if i re-upload the latest 700 firmware, the split second it has finished uploading, it reads -51 to -52 for about half a second before once again dropping like a rock and ending up back on -30. So it !!DOES!! know what the correct temp is because -51 to -52 was my old correctly working idle evap temp, its just reading it completely wrongly for some reason. So looks to me like some sort of firmware problem if its doing this.
And its started doing this without the unit being moved or remounted at all.
After telling them all this they have now said:
"> We have evaluated your claim report and would like you to send back your
> Mach unit. It is very important that the unit is shipped in its original
> package otherwise the warranty will be voided. Send your product to the
> following address:
>
> nVENTIV A/S
> Lupinvej 11
> 9500 Hobro
> Denmark
> Att. Per Krogh
>
> Regards
> nVENTIV support department"
(thats the entire email, Id like to know how they think they are going to know its MY unit they have received, and what the problems with it are, theres no RMA number no nothing, they didnt even tell me to mark the package in any way. Whats even funnier is they try to say it voids my warranty if i dont use the original box, well excuse me but im afraid it doesnt, ive got a faulty piece of hardware which by european law is guaranteed for a minimum of 1 year, regardless of whether I keep the original box or not.
This unit was purchased 4 months ago from one of their UK resellers, but now they expect me to pay to send the thing back to denmark, wait god knows how long for it to arrive there and then wait god knows how long for them to send me a replacement??
Does anyone know the legallity of this? I mean am I legally entitled to return it to the UK shop and get a replacement from them (MUCH cheaper and quicker) since it was bought from a UK shop in the first place, and is seemingly known to be faulty (or they wouldnt be asking me to send it back to them), and its only 4 months old? Or are they able to make me send it to denmark, considering I did not buy it from denmark. Personally I think I am probably legally entitled to send it back to the shop I bought it from in the UK, but Id like to make sure before I start telling them im not sending it to them.
I mean the unit still works perfectly, it just likes to display a temp thats about 22c lower than the ACTUAL evap temp so its a hell of a lot of hassle sending the thing to denmark, especially when I have a suspicion that it may be firmware related and so should be easily fixed (it happend some point close to when I uploaded their new firmware) even if it doesnt seem to have happened to anyone else.
p.s. if anyone has any firmware OTHER than the 700 firmware, can you send me it so I can try this.
This company is a joke.
Marci
10-16-2003, 04:57 PM
This unit was purchased 4 months ago from one of their UK resellers, but now they expect me to pay to send the thing back to denmark, wait god knows how long for it to arrive there and then wait god knows how long for them to send me a replacement??
On retail boxed products, which the Promi does fall under as it comes in a box, then if the manufacturer provides warranty then the UK Supplier is under no obligation to offer support after the initial stat rights period of 28 days I think. They can if they want... it's at their discretion. If Chip-Con authorises them to, they can provide an advance-replacement, but this is at the discretion of them and Chip-Con. Basically, no-one is forced to give you any help other than Chip-Con. Main thing to look for on the UK Supplier's site is their Terms & Conditions... have a good read thru them, and check that there isn't anything along the lines of "All Warranty on this product is dealt with exclusively by the manufacturer, use at your own risk" etc...
eg: "TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMISSIBLE BY APPLICABLE LAW, xxxxxxxxx DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE"
From one of the UK Resellers.... the other doesn't show any public t&c's without signing up, and the remaining reseller shows:
"All products supplied are covered by the terms and conditions of the Original Manufacturers Guarantee for a period of 12 months or longer if relevant"
So basically... if u got it from Tekheads u may stand a chance of getting it sorted thru them. If it was either of the other two their t&c's give em a get-out clause if they decide they'd rather leave it to chip-con.
It's the risk you take owning a Promi outside of mainland Europe... that's why we're trying to sort out repairs in the UK at the mo, as fixing it is usually cheaper than returning it... but when it comes to the MkII controller there's nothing anyone can do but ChipCon.
Would've thought ChipCon would be able to send you an older firmware... bear with me and I'll see if I can find the previous ver firmware as I'm sure I have it somewhere....
I gotit from cpu city, which ive always found to provide very good service so if i cant solve the problem by swapping the firmwares around or re-mounting it then ill see if they will rma it for me.
I did ask them to send me an older firmware, instead i got a reply saying fill in this form so we can evaluate ur claim, filled it in now they want me to send it all the way to denmark. If no other firmware sorts it and re-mounting it and shaking it about a bit doesnt fix it, and cpucity wont take it back then the last resort will be send it to denmark but im not sure whether i would rather just leave it as it is than pay all that money to send it back and be without one for god knows how long.
afaik the only firmware version before this 700 was the one the original mach2's shipped with. anyway ill try ANY other firmware i can get just to make sure.
JCviggen
10-16-2003, 11:54 PM
As to knowing whose unit it is, that will be obvious from the shipping address and then the claim report is just added to the box when it gets here.
So basically... your readout is -30C but it used to be -52...but is your actual CPU temp/OC different? That because i could personally care less about what the temp reading is ;) I definately wouldnt want to be without a prom for a while to get a different temp reading
Walrusbonzo
10-17-2003, 03:58 AM
My Prommie Mach 1 is second hand, but the guy I bought it from bought it from CPUCITY. AFAIK they WILL accept back faulty ones even after several months, 7 months in my case.
I couldn't be arsed waiting around though so got it fixed locally.
Goodluck.
Originally posted by JCviggen
So basically... your readout is -30C but it used to be -52...but is your actual CPU temp/OC different?
nope, cpu temps and overclock are the same, thats why i dont really wanna go to all the hassle of sending the thing back to denmark. i MIGHT consider sending it back to cpucity in the uk if i cant sort it, not sure yet. The problem with not returning it is if it decides to take another jump downwards, its going to fail to boot because itll be getting below its max safe temps. Thats why I havent already re-mounted and want to try firmwares first, incase something really is loose and after the remount it fails to work again, but if the firmwares dont fix it then ill try that anyway as theres nothing else i can try.
So first i need to find some firmwares other than the 700 to test. I just find it VERY strange that it does know the correct temp for a split second after firmware has finished uploading so it would seem the sensor is working along with everything else, and its maybe some sort of firmware issue.
cir108
10-17-2003, 05:51 AM
Ewok,
In the UK and perhaps EU, when you purchase an item, be it a 1 penny sweet or a jet aircraft, the contract is between you and the seller. No if's and but's.
That means, unless the seller SPECIFICALLY ALERTS YOU otherwise at the time of sale, the seller is 100% responsible for all warranties, expressed or implied. They cannot nudge, nudge, wink, wink you to the manufacturer in Mars or Jupiter.
Hope this clarifies the matter. Of course, the seller can begrudge the fact that you are sticking them to their resposnsiblity and delays the warranty procedure, say 3 months of criss-crossed phone calls.
JCviggen
10-17-2003, 06:58 AM
i dont think the sensor is the problem but rather the calibration of the controller... i believe there is something like it has the ability to correct itself against some kind of reference value... it sounds like your unit might be correcting something creating the huge difference,,, if the unit is not about to lose its warranty soon i would wait and see what happens, maybe some point in the near future youre on holiday for a few weeks, might as well RMA something when you dont need it !
well I didnt buy it until june 4th so ive got over 6 months to see what happens, if its not sorted by around may then ill get onto cpucity and send it back to them, with any luck ill then get a new unit maybe wiht some minor improvements as well :D
Im not hugely bothered about it because it seems to still work fine, but its very irritating spending over £500 on a piece of hardware which gives me a useless temp reading thats even more useless than the motherboard one now.
We did have a power cut the day before i noticed the screwed temps, which was also a couple of days after attempting to upload new firmware with their crappy broken version of the software, so it took me about 20 attemps to get the upload to complete without getting a usb error. So im thinking either that, or the power cut did something to it. either way, re-uploading the latest firmware with their new, working, software didnt fix it. Ive emailed them asking them to send me a couple of older versions of the firmware but they havent replied.
tonytiger
10-17-2003, 10:08 AM
My Mach2 was faulty also and i got it from the same place as you.After weeks of waiting for a replacement (i sent the faulty one back to CPU CITY) I demanded i refund which i promptly got.I got another one which works 100%.
Send it back and get a replacment afterall they are a authorized reseller!!!
Holst
10-17-2003, 10:44 AM
I think id try hard to send it back to where you got it, sending stuff back to chipcon yourself isnt ideal.
Mine is second hand and came from OCS so im pretty much screwed if it breaks down... I threw away the original box (nowhere to keep it)
If mine breaks ill just get it 404'd and fixed as warusbonzo just did to his.
quite cold today. and it gets even more wierd.
dispay today is saying -45 (instead of the usual -28 or so). coincidentally the real evap temp today (discovered by re-uploading the firmware and reading the display in the split second it finishes uploading) today says -54 instead of the usual -51 to -52. so a 2c difference in evap temps has created a roughly 16c temp drop in the reading.
basically there seems to be no correlation between what the actual evap temps are, and what its displaying.
still no reply from CON (big surprise) about getting another firmware.
Originally posted by Ewok
strangely when under load it drops from -45 (real of -54) to -32. yet when the real evamp temp read -51, the idle evap temp was -28 to -30. But when the real evap temp started at -54 and must have dropped past -51 under load, it didnt jump down to -28 like you would expect (because -51 = -28 on a normal day so you would expect when the evap goes from -54 to -51 today, when it hits -51 it would be on -28). i.e. -51 is normally reading as -28 to -30, but today when the evap temp starts at -54, it doesnt read -28 to -30 at all even under load when the temp must have dropped below -51. So it isnt even consistant in its wrong calculations for each temp.
That has to be the most confusing sentence ive ever read :confused:
When your saying 'real' evap temp i presume u r measuring using a thermocouple or other external probe?
tbh it sounds like theyres nothing wrong with the actual hardware only the controller and software...
]JR[
stergiopilus
10-20-2003, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by ]JR[
That has to be the most confusing sentence ive ever read :confused:
Your not the only one who's confused :confused:
gabbax
10-20-2003, 05:20 AM
ive got the same probbs (allmost) just sent my Mach2 to CC, and i had it for just a 2-3 weeks, first it was aprox -44 in pisp, -15 o nCPU, just over a night, dropp -10 deg on CPU and Disp, and it wont OC any more, same with my Mach1
Originally posted by gabbax
ive got the same probbs (allmost) just sent my Mach2 to CC, and i had it for just a 2-3 weeks, first it was aprox -44 in pisp, -15 o nCPU, just over a night, dropp -10 deg on CPU and Disp, and it wont OC any more, same with my Mach1
well thats a completely different problem because my temps arent changing at all, ur mach2 is obviously broken, mine is simply :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing up the temp display
charlie
10-20-2003, 10:59 AM
Sounds like it's fair to say the Mach II is a POS... what's the problem-rate on this forum? About 15%??
I, for one think that if Vapochill had 220W capacity noone would bother with Nventiv.
C
JCviggen
10-20-2003, 11:11 AM
220W at +15C ?? lol ;)
It is far less than 15 percent that i can see...but thats not really the issue I guess.
Marci
10-21-2003, 07:46 AM
I'd say it's more in the region of 2 to 3%... the ppl with working MachII's just don't talk about em so you don't know who has em and who doesn't. Never any probs with my MkI or MkII here... or the Vapo PE w/404 or XE...
Never had any of either returned to us so far... 0% failure rate on all units that have left this shop within the past 12 months.
Gary Lloyd
10-21-2003, 08:41 AM
There are always problems with systems that are to be installed by the end user. The problem is most likely to be the end user.
Holst
10-21-2003, 10:07 AM
A friend of mine bought one and it didnt work (just dosent get cold) he is havingto RMA it to NL :(
I think there is a pretty goor percentag with a problem, just as some people with them working dont post others who have problems dont either.
I think theres a hell of a lot of problems with them just looking at the sheer number of people on this forum alone that have had problems with either mach1 or mach2. They arent exactly sold in their thousands are they so this many people with problems is not good, and whats worse is chipCON have always been totally unhelpful in fixing them.
Now how many people on here do you see complaining about a vapochill? and there must have been more people with one of those in the past because they were a lot older and had basically 100% market share before now, yet Ive seen no complaints about them for stuff like leaks, temps, etc take one look down this forum and all i see is mach problems one after another and virtually all of them arent even down to user error, its just down to bluddy poor quality and bad design.
JCviggen
10-22-2003, 03:58 AM
if you want colder temps you need a bigger compressor, which makes it a pretty big heavy unit. The biggest percentage of failures is shipping related. Then there's a few sensor problems and an occasional mishandled or faulty thermal bus.
As marci said, the returns are pretty low. Of course the vapochill is an easier product, it only cools half as well...make your pick..this is xtremesystems after all not [S]
well i just got a wonderfully helpful reply from them after asking for another firmware to try in response to them telling me to send it back to denmark. they replied
"You problem is not firmware related ! You should ship the unit.
Regards
nVENTIV support department"
Helpful as ever.
By amazing coincidence I unplugged the mach2 earlier and went out for a couple of hours. come back, plugged it back in, and its now sitting at -55c idle.
*edit* thought it might do this, pc crashing earlier (not sure why yet) but its now back at -39 idle
RIGHT I emailed cpucity the reseller I bought my fauty mach2 from and this is the reply i got
We have contacted Chip Con as all warranty for the product is handled by
them, they have told us that they have asked you to return the product to
them therefore this is the procedure that they require.
Regards
Sales
www.cpucity.co.uk
I have asked around and the situation appears to be (in the UK at least) that the contract for the purchase is between me and the shop I purchased it from and NOT me and the manufacturer and that I am legally entitled to return it to the shop and NOT the manufacturer.
So I will be emailing cpucity again informing them of their legal obligation to take the item back and if they still refuse then im quite sure VISA and/or trading standards will sort it for me instead.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.