Prommy Mach2 - pc not booting anymore ?

[eva2000]

I'm using P4C800-E with my Prometia Mach2

I had it running for the past week straight testing and stuff 2.4C@3616mhz with no probs, yesterday was testing memory at 275mhz 1:1 priming in windows.

Left it priming over night, this morning I checked on the pc and the screen was blank with monitor green light blinking and the Prommy was still running - evap temp was @ -56C to -53C. The pc's case fans were still running as well etc.

So i thought maybe prime failed or pc went into power saver standby mode. Unfortunately not, i shutdown pc and prommy. Clear CMOS.

Turned pc and prommy back on. The Prommy powered up as normal saw temps drop to start temps which i set in windows as -38C instead of -33C eventually went to -56C evap temps. But the pc itself didn't boot, all i got was the same blank screen and green monitor light blinking ?

The P4C800-E green LED power was on and all and case fans were running, just nothing on the screen ? :(

Any ideas of what to look for and check ???


system is

2.4C
P4C800-E Deluxe rev 1.02 with 1011 final bios
2x 512MB OCZ PC4000 Gold DC
128MB Gigacube 9600PRO
120GB WD 1200JB
550W Antec TrueControl PSU
Prometia Mach2 with original firmware
Prometia Lian Li Kit
APC BackUPS RS 1500VA UPS
Aten Masterview 2 port KVM Switch

[sandman]

sounds like a dead mobo or cpu to me.

[Major]

Hopefully its just a case of condensation, pull your cooling head off and take the chip out and use a blow dryer to dry out the socket area.

What vcore where you running ??

[isp]

That seems really familiar...

It used to happen to me a lot, basically it was condensation I think...

You are running the heater pads right?

[eva2000]

yeah heater pad was on all the time... was running 2.4C@3616mhz at 1.775v in bios for P4C800-E for a week, and 2.4C@3300mhz at 1.725v for past 2 days

[Major]

I doubt its your mb, I'd say either the chip died form Vcore or its condensation.

I've got my fingers crossed for you that is just moisture in the socket. I had a 2.8c die on me on Saturday from running too much vcore through it 1.75v for the last couple of months.

[eva2000]

well swapped my 9600PRO with my 9600PRO VIVO card still the same problem so that rules out the video card

also changed to different memory, same problem

when the pc boots up the keyboard NUM lock key doesn't flash or register any power from the motherboard - so possible the motherboard being the problem ?

gonna have to take apart the system i guess :(

[Major]

1st thing you need to check is the socket area for condensation !!!! If you don't find any moisture then the cpu would be my guess.

[Creative]

IMO and my experience, im sad to say but your cpu george is dead :(

If the evap gets to the coldest temp it can, when the pc is on and stuff, then there is no power going to the cpu...cos there is no need to....cos its dead :(

This was the case with my 2.8 a few months ago. The vapo would go straight to the idle temp and nothing would happen with pc. Now when the cpu is alive, and the pc wont post, the cpu should still provice some power and the evap get warmer as the cpu is warmer etc.

I could be wrong, and I hope that I am :)

[eva2000]

Unfortunately busy with work and doing my tax return right now :o Really bad timing for this to happen :(

when the pc worked and booted fine, the evap temp always went and reached -59C to -53C

worse case would be both cpu and board are dead :eek:

[isp]

Yeah but why did they die, I could never figure that out either... shrug

[Marci]

Condensation... simple as.... 90% of the time u can survive it, but the odd 10% of the time it forms between the wrong two pins and pop goes the chip...

The evap temps sound a touch TOO low if anything, so I'd guess a combination of not-quite-there contact and a small gap to the top left of the socket somewhere, near the mosfet area, in the sealing string...

[WxChaser]

Marci, can you expound upon that? How can you tell other than the chip not booting up? When this happens can you see burn marks on the pins?

The reason I ask, is I have a bad 3.0 chip (retail boxed version - going back to Intel), that has been flaky since the get go. It did the same stuff under air the way it behaved as it did on phase change. I see no burn marks, first thought was it was a mobo, it would boot, then not boot...weirdest chip I've ever had in my life.

Are you using dialectric grease in socket and on pins with the prommies you assemble/sell there? Especially Mach II's with the rear heater and evap head heaters...Nventiv says do nothing like that.

This has been bugging me for the past 30 days now...so any help appreciated. I first suspected condensation on the chip too, but no way my hermetic cell was bad, and also the chip looks fine under microscope/magnifying glass, pins are straight, looks good to me.

How often have you seen this happening? Pretty sure eva2000 is just as careful or more so than I am...so just seems very odd to me.

I need Major Slaughter to toughen these babies up for me!

[eva2000]

well after a bloody amount of effort, I took it apart and not a drop of condensation in sight on the board ..

both top and back side of boards' pins are perfectly fine

from the evap head and P4 IHS it looks like it made contact with each other

Gonna let the board air for a while, and test it on air cooling

fingers crossed :)

[Marci]

I just remember on most P4 boards the pins that can do the most damage are up towards that area of the socket... so if it's a dead chip then that's the first place to look for suspect bad condensation seal... the short can be either within the socket pins, underside of the board, or underside of pins. It only needs to be a tiny droplet for a fraction of a second and the heat caused by the short could quite as easily vanish that shred of evidence...

Someone more technical would be best to check on whether I'm right about the rough area... I'm an AMD man meself...

I ALWAYS use dielectric on the back, on the socket pins and within the socket usually... prefer to be safe than sorry. Look at it this way... what harm can it do?

[eva2000]

dielectric grease didn't use any as i was worried as i read how to clean it off, but can't find the stuff to clean it off in OZ... (not looking that hard i guess :o )

now if nVentiv/Chip-con would of created a see-through clear micro freezer/evap head that would be useful - you'd see if there was any condensation straight away

[Marci]

Nail varnish remover works wonders... or isopropyl alcohol...

[WxChaser]

You can use electrical contact cleaner to clean up dielectric grease.

I use some from radio shack part # 64-4315 - Contact/Control Cleaner and Lubricant. I bought a soft brush attachment that will help work the grease loose to clean (this stuff works great and props to bowman who first suggested it to me).

I did use dialectric grease in socket, on back of mobo and around socket as well as pins on chip (light coating).
My luck sucks as of late...has to change soon though.

[eva2000]

so something like Electrolube Ultrasolve at http://www.computronics.com.au/electrolube/solclean/



http://www.computronics.com.au/electrolube/solclean/images/uls200.jpg

ULS - Ultrasolve
Ultrasolve Cleaning Solvent is a fast-drying solvent specially formulated for the quick and efficient cleaning of electrical equipment.

It replaces CFC solvents such as 113 trichloroethane due to rapid cleaning and fast evaporation rates.

Ultrasolve is 100% Ozone Friendly.

Excellent removal of greases, oils, flux residues and acrylic conformal coatings from PCBs.

http://www.electrolube.com/product/techdata/eldata/uls.doc

[WxChaser]

Yep, that should do it.

To Intel's credit they already emailed me back within 2 hours with a return # and processor is boxed ready to ship back tomorrow. I'll be glad to get a good CPU back, don't even care this time whether it's Costa Rican, Malaysian, etc. As long as the chip performs I'd be ecstatic.

[eva2000]

hmm there seems to be two products which do the same thing

Electrolube Ultrasolve
Specific Gravity @ 20°C: 0.79
Inhalation Toxicity: 300 ppm
Flash Point: 0°C
Residue on Evaporation: <1ppm
Evaporation Rate: 16 (with ether as 1)
================

Electrolube Electronic Cleaning Plus
Specific Gravity @ 20°C: 0.79
Inhalation Toxicity: 500 ppm
Flash Point: -48°C
Residue on Evaporation: <1ppm
Evaporation Rate: 1.5 (ether = 1)
Boiling Point: 36°C
================

inhalation toxicity, flash point ?

[eva2000]

Originally posted by WxChaser
Yep, that should do it.

To Intel's credit they already emailed me back within 2 hours with a return # and processor is boxed ready to ship back tomorrow. I'll be glad to get a good CPU back, don't even care this time whether it's Costa Rican, Malaysian, etc. As long as the chip performs I'd be ecstatic. i thought RMA would be through the retailer you got the cpu from ? or was yours a OEM cpu ?

[WxChaser]

I think the policy is 30 days to retailer, then 3 year bulk of warranty falls on Intel. First time I've had to ever use one of their warranties...but one reason I do buy the retail boxed CPU's from them.

We'll see how it goes...they said 3 to 5 biz days to ship the replacement out.

[eva2000]

well swapped this Prommy's 2.4C cpu into my 4PCA3+ on air with SP-94 heatsink and it runs fine and is priming nicely :)

so next is to test P4C800-E on air

[Major]

Thats great news !! I still say you've got some condensation in the socket !!!! get out your blow dryer !

[eva2000]

will do Major Slaughter :)

this experience kinda leaves a sour taste for a first time prommy or non-air user like me :o

kind of tempting to try A64/Asus K8V combo when i was thinking my cpu was the problem heh

[eva2000]

Well the P4C800-E, it looks like it's partially dead now - on air with a different 2.4C from the one i used in my prommy, the P4C800-E booted up the first time and i got into the bios and set everything to default speeds etc and exited and loaded into memtest86 @2.4C @ 2400mhz and exited and loaded into memtest86... was running so went out of the room

came back and the monitor's green power light was blinking and the monitor screen was blank again but there's power to the keyboard as the NUM lock key is lit

hit reset button, but pc won't boot now

So looks like my P4C800-E is gone :(

[Creative]

Im very sad to hear this George :(

I wonder what it could have been? Maybe it was condensation, or maybe it just was something that shorted without any help from the prommy?

If its not working on air and there is no obvious marks or you feel you didnt contribute to this mishap yourself, then for sure RMA it. It went from working to not working and I know you dont perform any mods ;) so Im sure you should be able to get a nice no questions asked RMA :thumbsup:

Stick with what you have and wait till the 15th Nov and switch to AMD with me :banana:

[eva2000]

yeah it's a stock unmodded board and Michael said i can RMA the board with no probs

back on my Albatron PX865PE PRO2 for now with 1.6v vcore max options heh so no prommy action for a while until P4C800-E replacement comes back (tax + HEC bill + medicare levy - will wipe my savings clean for this year :( )

what's happening on Nov 15 ?

[Ragnarok]

AMD Price cut..

[eva2000]

Ah i see :)

i read A64 3400+ is coming a week or 2 after Nov 15 too ? :)

[Creative]

Add my P4C800-e to the pile George :(

Turned pc on today, got the blinking monitor screen and nothing else. So I tried 3 cpus, 4 sticks of ram and nada, nothing, no go....:(:(

Was the same as you. No condensation and nothing else out of the ordinary. Completely 100% stock board no mods done at all to it.

Going to quickly put the IS7 back in. Will let you know how it goes...

[isp]

What is this sudden death syndrome :confused:

[Creative]

Cant really say...:(

I did some research this morning on the net and we are not alone...it seems others have this problem to after having pc turned off for few hours.

Ive seen apart from the 2 cases here, about another 5 on ABXZone forums and other forums too thru a google search :(

[Vatt]

Did you have your speakers turned on?
My P4C800-E didn't want to boot dozens of times and everytime the voice diagnostic said " System failed CPU test".

The only thing that helped me, was taking out the battery for 30 minutes. The CMOS clear jumper didn't do anything.
After 30 minutes, the board would start up and work just as it did the day I bought it. So no harm was done.

[Creative]

Interesting vatt, I didnt know about this :)

But then again, I dont buy a ferarri and then expect to charge the battery every time I want to start her up ;)

I just want some reliable hardware dammit :D
hehehehehe

[eva2000]

i know i didn't have any speakers connected at all...

P4C800-E is with supplier in the RMA process so see how that goes... if/when they do replace it, do they tell me what was wrong with the other board ?

[prommy_fan]

hey all! I also own P4C800-E MoBo. Sometimes due overclock it would not POST and says something about CPU Overclock. But I don't remove battery. I simply get off power cord when system is turned on and wait a few minuts - after plug it into and turn it - PC boots normally but with CPU clock reseted and ask u - F1 to get into bios and manually change settings or F2 to reset all defaults (do NOt do this - to much setting to change ;) IMHO)

but even If I get into CPU setting and don't change anything PC boots perfectly - it's a bug with P4C800-E but I can still live with it ;)

I read about this function somewhere in Manual but I just quickly look at all pages - but didn't found anything :(