Nehalem Overclocking @ XS

[FUGGER]

Intel I7 965 @ 5.247Ghz
Gigabyte X58 UD5
3 Stage cascade -100c
Corsair 2133 Dominator DDR3

Voltages

vcore ~1.5v, this is a "leaky" high IDV chip, scaling up with higher voltage is possible at a cost of runaway amp phenomena.
vmem ~2.2v for benching 2v on Vapo, compensate voltage with cooling to be safe.
vqpi ~1.35v depending on the board/bclock, upwards of 1.55v if I am pushing bclock, I run a low bclock so I usually leave it on stock.
vmem is the secret to uclk, 2.2v gets you 4.7Ghz ulck. uclk is also known as uncore.

general ratios

Stock QPI on i7 965 is x48 @ 133 bclock, if you raise the bclock to 160ish you would need to drop qpi ratio to X44 to continue raising the bclock to 180ish, drop qpi again to X36 again and that will get you out the theoretic max bclock of 220. That is not set in stone, some chips/board combos have exceeded these numbers but this rule is pretty close to what you will see on C stepping.

The uclk ratio I prefer to use is (the lowest possible) 1:2 of my ram speed (uclk runs at twice the speed of memory) and at lower speeds there are plenty more ratios to scale higher without running the sick memory speeds that I do, this is a huge gain in performance but for me it requires a lot of vmem and high end memory to run upwards of 2300Mhz (4700Mhz uclk) the memory controller has exceptional is its stability at this speed, I have not reached top speed and it will take even faster ram and more vmem to achieve that.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89283&stc=1&d=1227077408

Runaway amp phenomena, I hook an amp meter to the four yellow wires on eight pin power cable that connects near the CPU. Watching this you will see that yes you can keep scaling up with more voltage but your chip has a limit with all cores loaded that it will runaway on amps till it crashes. I know exactly what range to stay in with cores loaded to know not to hit this runaway threshold. Keeping vcore down and disabling HT lets me run at the chips max speed, HT has an added power load on the CPU, disabling it helps gain critical Mhz.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/cpu.JPG

Max Uncore and QPI, memory speed is correct, SPD 9-9-9-24
http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/7.JPG

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/8.JPG

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/9.JPG

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/22.JPG

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/19.JPG

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/10.JPG

[sirheck]

Damn. you dont waste any time do you.:)

[gonx_me]

all i can say is: Wooooo!!!

[over@locker886]

Thanks for sharing! :up:

[sirheck]

No signs of a coldbug i guess.?

[Ozzfest05]

great job Fugger isnt that ram voltage high for a Nehalem based board? Good to see some results I do hope it can be pushed a little futher but maybe with a release of a newer stepping will show more potential That CPU voltage is really good for that clock wow this is a great job indeed, now lets hit 6ghz like the Qx9650

[marcolecorse]

nice clock

[imapwnu]

nice man

noticed you werent using too high of a bus freq, how far up were you able to get it before raising multi?

[FUGGER]

My ram voltage is fine for the temps, I can go up to 2.3v but not needed on the Samsung Rev E

Bus frequency (bclock) is maxed for top qpi speed, 162 I need to ratio down the qpi speed.

[HDCHOPPER]

36 multi :hrhr:

this is looken good :D
kill it FUGGER :D

[knopflerbruce]

Nice stuff (FINALLY some numbers. thanks!), but do these CPUs hate voltage? I'm used to see 2v++ from the Intel benchers around:D

[SeLecT]

Nice stuff Fugger! :)

Are the latencys right at the cpu-z validation?

Do you have a 32M-Run with 5Ghz or more? :D

[Leeghoofd]

Boohaaa and we enter a new area of overclocking... jeez those bandwith numbers make me drool , would triple channel even be faster ?

[jcool]

Way over 5Ghz and such a low Vcore.. damn nice. Makes me think around 4,8Ghz should be attainable 24/7 stable on phase. *goes away to check his credit cards*

[ak_47_boy]

Nice!

[ZoLKoRn]

:eek: WooooooT amazing clock Fugger :up:

love max Uncore clk 4.45GHz :eek:

[imPurpleHaze]

Damn this crappy :banana::banana::banana::banana: runs like hell!!!!!
How about more FSB for the lower ones, like i940?
Haven't u been able to get a higher one?

[Gautam]

Nice stuff, short and to the point with pure big numbers, the way it's meant to be done. :p:

You've been a busy guy Charles. :toast:

[FUGGER]

Ive had time on the cascade to dial in and rerun stuff, anxiously waiting for others to post tonight and tomorrow with killer results.

Taking pics off the camera and Ill show insulation on three boards.

[SeLecT]

and tomorrow with killer results.


:up:

I'll be waiting! :D

[philbrown23]

sweet

[Marvin_The_Martian]

Omg and everyone was saying they would not oc close to 6ghz.. I'm pretty sure they will when you guys get the hang of it completetly :up:

Why did you run 4 cores for sp1m? Wouldn't it go higher with fewer cores enabeld?

[Nosfer@tu]

EVIL CPU !

Thats just SOOOOO FAST

[phobosq]

Ive had time on the cascade to dial in and rerun stuff, anxiously waiting for others to post tonight and tomorrow with killer results.

Taking pics off the camera and Ill show insulation on three boards.

I hope you've got some serious stuff coming :P

[FUGGER]

More images added.

[[XC] gomeler]

Would you say a cascade tuned around -110C is sufficient for Nehalem or is there anything to be gained going colder?

[FUGGER]

very little gain going colder, maybe 100Mhz
the cascade is near perfect, I am yet to have a bold but or boot issue.

[Movieman]

very little gain going colder, maybe 100Mhz
the cascade is near perfect, I am yet to have a bold but or boot issue.

Very,Very nice Charles!:up:

[nut311]

too fast .........and WOW is big big bandwidth , waiting 25-26k everest :up:

[EmineM]

Looking forward to your RE II Results :)

[ZoLKoRn]

What i saw! that only cpu put on the socket and not have a clip lock :eek:

[Slovnaft]

so what's your preference, gigabyte or R2E?
I've been struggling with that decision; i love my ep45-ud3p so much, but RE kicked so much ass for x48.
also, is there any difference in ex58-ud5 and ex58 extreme besides one fet and an outrageous nb cooler?

[bachus_anonym]

Hehe, not too shabby, Charles :D

:up:

[[XC] gomeler]

very little gain going colder, maybe 100Mhz
the cascade is near perfect, I am yet to have a bold but or boot issue.

great to hear, guess it's time to break out the cascade again and store the F1EE. Cheap electricity > LN2 any day :up:

[Gendo]

Wow:shocked: I wasn't expecting nehalem would go that high. With that efficiency the WR superpi will be broken without ever making it to 6Ghz:eek: Very nice work! Looking forward to your wprime results;)

[TheKarmakazi]

wow awesome! is that a cherry picked cpu though? Or is 5.4 an average extreme OC? have u tested more than 1 i965?

[[XC] gomeler]

I believe Fugger has tested through a few chips, would make the most sense given his connections :up: I hope retail silicon is better than the ES silicon.

[Movieman]

gomeler;3401313']I believe Fugger has tested through a few chips, would make the most sense given his connections :up: I hope retail silicon is better than the ES silicon.

These aren't bad my friend and although I don't play in "Fugger's league" it showed me some nice numbers on air.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206572

[warlockza]

Fugger goes Supersonic..... :shocked:

Check out Fugger's sub 8 second Super Pi bench.

The man is a legend!!! :clap:

Nehalem & Core i7 on Gigabyte mobo.... Sub-8 Second Super Pi (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AnbMomZiCws)

[dinos22]

holy crap
very nice charles
magic chip too:up::up:

[overcrash]

Intel I7 965 @ 5.247Ghz
Gigabyte X58 UD5
3 Stage cascade -100c
Corsair 2133 Dominator DDR3

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/9.JPG



Is that the real vCore there ?

[dinos22]

i was wondering the same

that CPU is CRAZY good if it is :shocked:

bring on Wazza tweaking :D >> look at the puny L2 cache :D:D:D

[dinos22]

the BIG question that needs answers now is obviously if it can compete with E8600s in AM3/3DMARK01/03/05 :D

any 3D benchmarks at 5.3GHz charles? :D

[Hazzan]

Intel I7 965 @ 5.247Ghz
Gigabyte X58 UD5
3 Stage cascade -100c
Corsair 2133 Dominator DDR3

more images inbound!

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/cpu.JPG


2 weeks ago you told me 5Ghz.......but now 5.4Ghz amazing Charles..:up::up: we want to see Vantage 3dmark Score...:D:D

[EmineM]

most of the 3d records will fall fairly quick, super pi probably only with a very good chip :)

[stangracin2]

2 weeks ago you told me 5Ghz.......but now 5.4Ghz amazing Charles..:up::up: we want to see Vantage 3dmark Score...:D:D

he had backups lol

[T_M]

Really good numbers as said before mate :)

Us Aussies have been playing with similar hardware and have struggled against coldbug on two 965's on UD5 and P6T :(
One chip was -85C, the other -65C!
Need to work on it more as we've not had much time yet, but working on some tips that Fugger gave.

Max clock we've seen so far was a measley 4.75GHz at 1.6V and -65C. Obviously this is crappy but we need to find out if it very early BIOS or temp or what.

[Glow9]

such a nice board

[FUGGER]

Yes, the vcore is correct.

The AM3 is huge, not sure where I put the screen shot and I am working on 2K1, my nature is quite low on .43 driver.

[imPurpleHaze]

Is it possible to overclock like this with the lower ones like Q940 and Q920?

[Ozzfest05]

I would like to see some max FSB clocks on this cpu it would help us determine what to expect of the non extremes and how they will clock

[NBF]

Awesome work FUGGER!!! :up:

[[XC] gomeler]

Max bclk of ~220, expect way lower though for most chips.

[chispy]

Great numbers Fugger , I see WRs falling quickly :D

[T_M]

yeah around 200+ for baseclock.

[metro.cl]

Impresive chip i didn't expèct such high MHz right on launch.

Fugger is there a limiting factor? vcore is pretty low the chip doesnt like more volts? multiplier limited?

[FUGGER]

The chips have a max frequency and it seems to be the same on all boards, going colder or adding more volts does not help.

[dinos22]

AM3 loves bandwidth and extra cores
should be a nice figure
cant wait to see it

reviews are about to hit the web in 15 minutes woot :D

[dinos22]

The chips have a max frequency and it seems to be the same on all boards, going colder or adding more volts does not help.

that's like AMD used to be
when you reach a limit just forget about it lol....eeeek

[mXpS]

Great work Fugger!!

Keep the info coming!

[Solid Snake]

Nice Man

very very Amazing !!!!!

:shocked:

[Benny Lodewijk]

Nice Charles ! Keep them coming :D

[miahallen]

so what's your preference, gigabyte or R2E?
I've been struggling with that decision; i love my ep45-ud3p so much, but RE kicked so much ass for x48.
also, is there any difference in ex58-ud5 and ex58 extreme besides one fet and an outrageous nb cooler?

I'm also interested in your opinions of the boards you've played with Charles...what do you think of the R2E?:shrug:

[V3NOM]

lol people don't get your hopes up - you can't up the voltage on the two non- extreme versions of i7... not very overclockable :(

nice vcore lol fugger!
keep it up man :D

[Kondik]

Simply amazing Fugger :clap: Thanks for those results, eXtreme as usuall

[flegg]

Grats very sexy.

I wanna hear about how useful turbo mode is. And how the wattage cap affects the non-extreme overclocks. Not complaining just anxious pouting.

[[XC] Oj101]

very little gain going colder, maybe 100Mhz
the cascade is near perfect, I am yet to have a bold but or boot issue.

OMG man, this is a family forum:rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF::rofl:

[BenchZowner]

lol people don't get your hopes up - you can't up the voltage on the two non- extreme versions of i7... not very overclockable :(

Of course you can adjust the voltage on the non-extreme's as well.

[InsaneOne]

Nice results.. core i7 seems to run damn god :)

[massman]

AM3 loves extra cores

No it does not.

[dinos22]

No it does not.
pretty sure during my comparisons with a qx9650 vs dual core i found quads slightly edge out dual cores at some frequencies for some odd reason :confused:

[Johnny Bravo]

pretty sure during my comparisons with a qx9650 vs dual core i found quads slightly edge out dual cores at some frequencies for some odd reason :confused:

Really? I thought AM3 was a bandwidth hog really. I've seen it gain far more in terms of memory bandwidth as opposed to cpu speed or cores :shrug:

[massman]

Probably due to bandwidth and latencies, Dino. Were the tests ran in identical test environments?

AM3 is not a multithreaded application and can therefor not benefit from multi-core processors. It's the bandwidth that plays a role here, not the addition of two cores.

[BenchZowner]

pretty sure during my comparisons with a qx9650 vs dual core i found quads slightly edge out dual cores at some frequencies for some odd reason :confused:

I can confirm this.
I've noticed it when I was reviewing the QX9650 and the E8400.
Both on the same platform, same settings ( exactly the same BIOS settings ), fresh Windows XP SP2 installations, drives, drivers, etc.
Linkie (http://www.benchzone.com/page.php?al=intel_qx9650_review&pg=12)

Pics:

http://www.benchzone.com/datas/users/0-core_2_series_review_3600mhz_specifications_table. png
http://i35.tinypic.com/2qbri47.jpg

[dinos22]

thanks Bill

[massman]

Ehrm ... you're kidding me, right?

E8400 3.6G: 225021
QX9650 3.6G: 226854

Difference: 1833 points, which makes the quadcore exactly 0,8145% faster, not even ONE whole percent. Seriously, re-run Aquamark and you'll be losing more than that due to the variance in the score.

[massman]

You'd better switch motherboards then, the gain is much bigger:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s261/Massman-/MSI-P45-8D-Memory-Lover-review-mass.png

[BenchZowner]

Ehrm ... you're kidding me, right?

E8400 3.6G: 225021
QX9650 3.6G: 226854

Difference: 1833 points, which makes the quadcore exactly 0,8145% faster, not even ONE whole percent. Seriously, re-run Aquamark and you'll be losing more than that due to the variance in the score.

Those were the averages of 5 runs m8.
I know it's weird, and I've tried it again and again and again, with the same results.

[massman]

Ever heard of the law of large numbers?

"The law of large numbers (LLN) is a theorem in probability that describes the long-term stability of the mean of a random variable. Given a random variable with a finite expected value, if its values are repeatedly sampled, as the number of these observations increases, their mean will tend to approach and stay close to the expected value."

Basicly: the lower the number of tests you run, the more likely your results are flawed. 5 runs and an average gain of 0,8145% does not prove anything. Come back if you've done 5000 runs and still have a 1% gain, then you can (maybe) call this an anomality.

[BenchZowner]

Pieter, I can't remember AquaMark 3 giving me a 1500+ pts difference between any runs at the same settings.
The average variation is around 300pts, and the max I've seen in my testing is about 800-900pts.

Once I get done with the P5Q3 Deluxe review I'll set up the system again and have it run AQ3 50 times with the QX9650 and 50 times with a E8600 at the same settings and tabulate the data.
TBH though, I don't think that the E8600 will get a higher score than the QX9650 at all.

[massman]

Please run the Lavalys Everest benchmark as well, just to exclude the bandwidth/latency theory.

[Johnny Bravo]

we we can all accept that AM3 is a single threaded app right?

So therefore the cores themselves aren't making the difference so maybe its more to do with how the cores access the memory? Perhaps bandwidht is better shared between the two. I'm a bit excited as it means there is something new to discover ;)

[Oliver]

thx for posting Charles

keep pushing it

[BenchZowner]

Please run the Lavalys Everest benchmark as well, just to exclude the bandwidth/latency theory.

Will do mate :)


we we can all accept that AM3 is a single threaded app right?

Of course we can accept that, because it is true :)


So therefore the cores themselves aren't making the difference so maybe its more to do with how the cores access the memory? Perhaps bandwidht is better shared between the two. I'm a bit excited as it means there is something new to discover ;)

If AQ3 could take advantage of two cores and use them wisely when there are more than 2 available, we could've an explanation ( using Core 0 and Core 3 to give each core the whole L2 cache of the die )... but it's not.

But since AQ3 is single-threaded... well... we'll have to find out :D

[massman]

I'm with Johnny on this one. The actual number of cores doesn't matter, it's probably the bandwidth balance over the cores. Maybe because a quadcore requires more resources, it uses more memory actively and creates a minimal extra on bandwidth?

Just to make it complete, you should run the E8400 at 1 core and the QX9650 at 2 cores and 1 core :p

//EDIT: Just to be clear: I expect to see less difference when you ran the benchmark 50 times, this theory is only when the the conclusion of the tests show that the QX9650 is >= 0,8145% faster than the E8400.

[SoF]

guys keep on-topic and pm yourself about that am3 thing...

charles that's a great show-off that new chip, seems like you are one step further with nehalem oc than everybody else :D can't wait for some 3D results - numbers are looking way better than I expected so far. Thanks for sharing and keep going :cheer: interesting to see about the voltages, hope it can take 2V on ram under cold for a longer time...
:toast:

[[XC] Oj101]

If AQ3 could take advantage of two cores and use them wisely when there are more than 2 available, we could've an explanation ( using Core 0 and Core 3 to give each core the whole L2 cache of the die )... but it's not.

But since AQ3 is single-threaded... well... we'll have to find out :D

You may be onto something there. Windows might use one core from a pair and AM3 a core from the other pair.

[Gautam]

I agree with Bill and Dino regarding AM3. It is simply faster clock for clock with 4 cores. I didn't believe it for a sec when some people started hinting at it, but I found it to be true...

No idea why.

[Fr3ak]

gomeler;3401629']Max bclk of ~220, expect way lower though for most chips.

Ye, expect around 180 MHz for stable results on air.


I agree with Bill and Dino regarding AM3. It is simply faster clock for clock with 4 cores. I didn't believe it for a sec when some people started hinting at it, but I found it to be true...

No idea why.

That might be true, but for now dual cores overclock much higher than quads, so even if there is a 1% difference lock for clock, who cares when dual cores can be clocked 8 % higher (Wolfdale/Yorkfield wise)?

[Pt1t]

Ye, expect around 180 MHz for stable results on air.


Yes , what i can with i7 920 and EX58-Extreme on aircooling. That can prime to ~190mhz Bclk and bench to 200.

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/divers/000000078330.png

[c1rcu1tburn3r]

Mmm are you happy about those i7 guys? I'm not so enthusiast atm...we'll see :shrug:

[RoyaL]

wtf ..not even 300fsb? :down:

ok,i'll wait for the next step :D

[PytonOrm]

:D Get some Ln2 nitrogen on it ? =)

[Gautam]

wtf ..not even 300fsb? :down:

ok,i'll wait for the next step :D

The base clock is NOT a datapath. It's just a clock which the QPI bus, CPU and other clocks are derived off of. What the base clock is at has no direct bearing on performance.

[wagih]

Great Numbers :)
Just with the lunch

[Fitseries3]

Yes , what i can with i7 920 and EX58-Extreme on aircooling. That can prime to ~190mhz Bclk and bench to 200.

http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/divers/000000078330.png

i thought the i7 chips have 2 multis up from what they run stock?

cant you run 22x with the 920?

on TEC would i be able to get 4.2ghz benchable? higher?

[dinos22]

That might be true, but for now dual cores overclock much higher than quads, so even if there is a 1% difference lock for clock, who cares when dual cores can be clocked 8 % higher (Wolfdale/Yorkfield wise)?

Oli you are right that's why all current records are on dual core

my point wasnt to argue that
i simply said that we'll see some nice AM3 scores because of monster bandwidth and extra cores........i know it sounds weird and i didnt believe it at first but it just seemed to score better clock for clock so all i am saying is that these new chips should make AM3 look good...just a general comment

massman i total get what you are saying and i dont know if its the extra cores or whatever but that is the main difference between dual core and quad core CPUs which is why i assumed that it may be those extra cores that boost it somehow....NFI how it works with AM3 lol

half to one percent on 350K score is a pretty big figure :p:

[G H Z]

Nice results FUGGER, looks like we'll be seeing some big gains in Vantage and 3DMark06. Have you tested wPrime yet?

[Pt1t]

i thought the i7 chips have 2 multis up from what they run stock?

cant you run 22x with the 920?

on TEC would i be able to get 4.2ghz benchable? higher?

yes off course you can run @ 22X in idle or sometimes with pi 1M but when you launch multithread aplication the multiplier goes down to 20X.

[pxhx]

Nice results FUGGER, looks like we'll be seeing some big gains in Vantage and 3DMark06. Have you tested wPrime yet?
congrats FUGGER.
yeah... i'm curious too.
Run wPrime, please.

[FUGGER]

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/10.JPG

Wprime.

Not sure what happened when I changed ram and uclk/uncore was too low. I will redo at 5ghz and correct bandwidth.

[pxhx]

http://fugger.netfirms.com/nhm/10.JPG

Wprime.

Not sure what happened when I changed ram and uclk/uncore was too low. I will redo at 5ghz and correct bandwidth.

Thank you! :up:

[s e t h]

here's my wprime and single card 06 for comparisons.
for some wierd reason i had two gpu-z's open...i think that was habit from fighting vista and dual 4870X2's :D

[Pt1t]

here's my wprime and single card 06 for comparisons.
for some wierd reason i had two gpu-z's open...i think that was habit from fighting vista and dual 4870X2's :D

Hello s e t h !

Any comparaison with my wprime @ 4.2ghz with retail i7 965xe

I dont know if it s caused by wprime version but your time will be beter @ +4.6ghz.

http://www.pt1t.eu/public/X58/R2E/Wprime-32M-4200.PNG

[Fitseries3]

yes off course you can run @ 22X in idle or sometimes with pi 1M but when you launch multithread aplication the multiplier goes down to 20X.

so basically the 21x and 22x are pointless? i mean, whats the deal. will i be dissapointed if i get a 920? im hoping to get 4.5ghz and i have good cooling.

[Ghigo]

Hello s e t h !

Any comparaison with my wprime @ 4.2ghz with retail i7 965xe

I dont know if it s caused by wprime version but your time will be beter @ +4.6ghz.

http://www.pt1t.eu/public/X58/R2E/Wprime-32M-4200.PNG

Hmm need so much volts for a 4.2 for a retail 965 ?

[s e t h]

funny...my cpu-z's say 'single channel'...but i'm in xp and you're in vista

[Gautam]

It's vista...better for wprime. Both of you could do with some memory optimization though, lol. :sofa:

[Pt1t]

funny...my cpu-z's say 'single channel'...but i'm in xp and you're in vista

no :) it s xp too !

[Pt1t]

It's vista...better for wprime. Both of you could do with some memory optimization though, lol. :sofa:

off course :) but it was my first boot on this board.

[s e t h]

It's vista...better for wprime. Both of you could do with some memory optimization though, lol. :sofa:
hahaha...very funny :ROTF:
true though...i just got tthe board running and then it was straight under ln2 :D

'06 efficiency seems better with i7 than with qx9650 going by the bot...even unoptomised.

[S1mon-]

What kind of voltage can be used with these new chips for 24/7?

[Ket]

Yawn, just numbers. Lets see something that has some backbone to it like Crysis benchmarks, WinRAR, etc.

[BenchZowner]

Yawn, just numbers. Lets see something that has some backbone to it like Crysis benchmarks, WinRAR, etc.

You are in the Xtreme Overclocking section.
Do you really expect to see anything but 3D Marks, SuperPi, and wPrime ?

[Brandybuck]

woww:shocked:

I need Corei7:)

[Rickpatbrown]

AMD could beat that any day!

I'm a little upset that the lower end ones won't overclock.

Good work on the clocks. It's impressive technology in the hands of an able person.

[revogamer]

i940 fun :up:

im only on the extreme stock cooler hahahahah, TRUE results early next week..

the intel board aint bad btw.

[xVeinx]

Um, huh? Beat what? And, yes they do overclock.

[PeterPeterson1]

I can't understand those 2 different values. Could someone help me here? or is everything messured by detection programs like CPUz not trustworthy until a new certified version comes?

[flesheatinvirus]

Excellent results here.:D

[TheKarmakazi]

AMD could beat that any day!

I'm a little upset that the lower end ones won't overclock.

Good work on the clocks. It's impressive technology in the hands of an able person.

Not to start a flamewar, but aMD couldnt beat that in their wildest dreams...

The lower end ones DO overclock... lots of 940's hit 4-4.2Ghz on air.

[Leeghoofd]

I can't understand those 2 different values. Could someone help me here? or is everything messured by detection programs like CPUz not trustworthy until a new certified version comes?

Everest doesn't seem to detect the 33 multi set and takes default 24X...

Stop me Bill from buying it , I need your support badly !!!!!!

[BenchZowner]

Stop me Bill from buying it , I need your support badly !!!!!!

Resist you must :p:
May the 32nm force be with you :p:

[FlanK3r]

hm..more than 1.5V is to much i think, for 45nm Intel (or LN2?)

[FUGGER]

Lapped and polished, gained about 100Mhz

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88767&stc=1&d=1226267087

[T_Flight]

AMD could beat that any day!

I'm a little upset that the lower end ones won't overclock.

Good work on the clocks. It's impressive technology in the hands of an able person.

:rofl: You're kidding right? Please do some more reading...alot more reading.

AMD doesn't even have a paper tiger that come close to that, nor will they for the foreseeable future.

Not only are these things gonna take the desktop market over, Intel's server Team is well poised to take over the server market again too with this technology.

I've never in my life seen a CPU that was capable of doing everything extremely well like this one does.

920's and 940's clock very well. I think you need to take a look at the 920 clocked to 4.3Ghz on the EVGA board down one forum. That is on air, and it's also 24/7 stable.

AMD has nothing that will come close to that. I've seen the paper tigers on the Internet and those are neither here nor there. When they can post some screenshots then they might make me a believer, but making wild claims on paper does not make it reality.

[dinos22]

Lapped and polished, gained about 100Mhz

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88767&stc=1&d=1226267087

100MHz is a pretty big deal

was it concave or convex
looks like these CPUs must really get hot too in full load

what are your max 3D CPU MHz clocks for '06 from your best chip

[dinos22]

920's and 940's clock very well. I think you need to take a look at the 920 clocked to 4.3Ghz on the EVGA board down one forum. That is on air, and it's also 24/7 stable.

i think jakup showed a short 4.2GHz prime

i seriously DOUBT that retail chips will be able to get stability past 4GHz that easily unless evga board is doing something special plus they get extremely hot when fully loaded

[t_russell]

Very nice results my man. But I too would like to see some more real world stuff off of these.

[SuperFly03]

You know... this just makes me feel inadequate.

Great job. Sickness keeps raining down from Intel.

I almost feel bad for AMD... then I realize they did it to themselves.

[Astennu]

sorry double post.

[Astennu]

You know... this just makes me feel inadequate.

Great job. Sickness keeps raining down from Intel.

I almost feel bad for AMD... then I realize they did it to themselves.

AMD never had a chance. Intel always had the name. + Intel is 8-10x bigger if you look at fabs and development teams. And they have way more money.

So i'm not surprised they make technology like this. I think they could do a lot better if they would really do there best and use more money to do it.

But we need AMD. If AMD is gone Intel will have free play. And we will only gain 200 Mhz per year. And need to do 2-3 Years with 32nm tech instead of 1.

So i really hope AMD can keep some pressure on the market. If they had not done that with K8 we would still have those Crappy P4's with netburst tech.

[HDCHOPPER]

Lapped and polished, gained about 100Mhz

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88767&stc=1&d=1226267087


sweet ! thats gotta be a recoard itself :D

[WaterFlex]

Killer chip!

[plokko]

Can you overvolt the memory without overvolt the cpu with this mobo(possible only if integrate a "memory voltage controller" like dfi who let you overvolt memory without burn the cpu)?

The ud5 is cool,less extreme than the "extreme" version but with a lot of cool features and a great price!

P.S.:Great score fugger!:up:

[Rickpatbrown]

:rofl: You're kidding right? Please do some more reading...alot more reading.

AMD doesn't even have a paper tiger that come close to that, nor will they for the foreseeable future.

Not only are these things gonna take the desktop market over, Intel's server Team is well poised to take over the server market again too with this technology.

I've never in my life seen a CPU that was capable of doing everything extremely well like this one does.

920's and 940's clock very well. I think you need to take a look at the 920 clocked to 4.3Ghz on the EVGA board down one forum. That is on air, and it's also 24/7 stable.

AMD has nothing that will come close to that. I've seen the paper tigers on the Internet and those are neither here nor there. When they can post some screenshots then they might make me a believer, but making wild claims on paper does not make it reality.

:( Of course I was kidding. Look at my signature.

Overclocking is pretty much the only reason I really got into this hobby of building computers. I can't see myself buying 500 dollar chips to overclock it. I wish AMD hadn't executed so poorly. We should be seeing the launch of the next generation AMD chip right next to this one. Instead, we have Core2 owning the next closest offering by AMD. i7 is showing up to %25 more efficiency than C2. Poor AMD . . . Poor consumer . . . Rich Intel.

[Dr.Paneas]

Has anynone test the Turbo Mode ?

I saw (from TomsHardware screenshot) that even locked models (such as Core i7 920 / 940 ) do unclock automatically and they raise up the multiplier and they low down the bclock. Is this possible ?

Check this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclocking-core-i7,2063.html to see what I mean.

[plokko]

Has anynone test the Turbo Mode ?

I saw (from TomsHardware screenshot) that even locked models (such as Core i7 920 / 940 ) do unclock automatically and they raise up the multiplier and they low down the bclock. Is this possible ?

Check this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclocking-core-i7,2063.html to see what I mean.
even tomshardware say that the block can be disabled even in the 920/940 processors,see the last article on processors:up:!

P.S.:plz if you can answer my last post plz do!

[slash777]

3400mhz @ 1.120V ( air, Intel boxed cooler )

http://www.abload.de/thumb/3400kkgj.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=3400kkgj.jpg)

[Rickpatbrown]

even tomshardware say that the block can be disabled even in the 920/940 processors,see the last article on processors:up:!

P.S.:plz if you can answer my last post plz do!

Thanks for the clarification !
That's good news
:up:

[T_Flight]

:( Of course I was kidding. Look at my signature.

Overclocking is pretty much the only reason I really got into this hobby of building computers. I can't see myself buying 500 dollar chips to overclock it. I wish AMD hadn't executed so poorly. We should be seeing the launch of the next generation AMD chip right next to this one. Instead, we have Core2 owning the next closest offering by AMD. i7 is showing up to %25 more efficiency than C2. Poor AMD . . . Poor consumer . . . Rich Intel.

I'm not seeing it. I'm actually seeing cheaper prices on the stuff I've bought so far. The i7965 I bought was 500 dollars cheaper than the QX9650. I am buying a RIIE today that is cheaper than a Rampage I lists for. Ram is slightly higher but is to be expected and will come down alot.

From where I am sitting as a consumer I'm getting more for less, and that's very unusual when it comes to cutting edge stuff. Intel will always be rich, and as long as they don;t get out of hand with prices, they deserve to be. They are making great stuff. They really are.

AMD is just not there yet, but they're working on it, and they will be again. I really hope they turn it around. We all want them there. They've been down before and have came out with great performers and they will again. I sincerely hope that nothing bad happens to AMD. It was looking very bleak for their future there for awhile, and I was worried, but now things are looking much brighter. Everybody need to get through this world recession and US recession too. They'll both pull through. :)

[T_M]

Charles, do you suffer with cold boot bugs and is your also at -60C?
Ive tested a number of CPU's on a number of gigabyte boards and all are -60C....

[VictorWang]

wow.......that's really a gem chip.
we are still fighting for 4.9Ghz.
so many chips can't go over 1.5v
and coldbug at about -80c
lower the temp or more volts helps nth :(

congratz on the great results !

[FUGGER]

No cold boot issues at all, I found out with the vapo head it was putting too much pressure on the caps and would prevent it from booting sub zero. Once I figured that out I never saw a boot problem again. I think you are putting too much pressure on the caps and that is preventing it from booting too.

Thanks, lapping the chip definitely helped.

[T_M]

I'm running 1.7V with no problems and definately see clock gains from doing so.
Lapping helped under subzero?

[AndreYang]

cold boot and cold bug depend on cpu. my chip can do -125 no problem.

[T_M]

Then every 965 I have tested just unluckily had cold boot at exactly the same temperature.
Ive tested 6.....

[dinos22]

sounds like your boards

[eva2000]

cold boot and cold bug depend on cpu. my chip can do -125 no problem.
Andre i'm sure you tested a few 965EEs, so many were capable of such cold temps and how many didn't make the grade ? :)

[AndreYang]

Andre i'm sure you tested a few 965EEs, so many were capable of such cold temps and how many didn't make the grade ? :)


you will find a good temp chip when you try 30+ pcs chips.:D



sounds like your boards



NO......

My chip done -125 on EX58-Extreme, too. 6 chips is nothing. Try 60 pcs.

[T_M]

Im not saying there arent gem chips out there mate, but 0 out of 6 suggests a poor strike rate

[dinos22]

Im not saying there arent gem chips out there mate, but 0 out of 6 suggests a poor strike rate

you are not wrong Tim :down:

[AndreYang]

Im not saying there arent gem chips out there mate, but 0 out of 6 suggests a poor strike rate


0 of 6 is normal........


Retail and ES are the same. The same batch has -60 and -120 chips. Maybe your chips already tested by someone before you got.

[eva2000]

you will find a good temp chip when you try 30+ pcs chips.:D






NO......

My chip done -125 on EX58-Extreme, too. 6 chips is nothing. Try 60 pcs.
60 pcs.. that's like AUD$132,000-168,000 bucks! :eek:

[AndreYang]

60 pcs.. that's like AUD$132,000-168,000 bucks! :eek:



so what? that's cheaper than QX9770. lol

[dinos22]

lol talk about this being a wallet sport

it's getting there pretty quick isnt it :p:

[George_o/c]

lol talk about this being a wallet sport

it's getting there pretty quick isnt it :p:

Unfortunately :(

[AndreYang]

lol talk about this being a wallet sport

it's getting there pretty quick isnt it :p:


no..RMA bad chips everyday.:ROTF:

[BenchZowner]

no..RMA bad chips everyday.:ROTF:

Yeah, lol.
Until the shop gets suspicious and refuse to RMA your stuff any more :D

[Harshal]

No good cards for 3D... which makes me 2D guy for sometime now :p:
ASUS P6T-Dlx numbers.... as EX58-UD5P was acting shady with me and made me waste 15 liter LN2.:mad:
http://www.imgx.org/files/26395_esqtf/ASUS_wPrime1024M.jpg
3rd with 32M and 1024M on HWBOT and its was first day of playing with 965EE so no GFX is allowed. Planning to push it high 2moro.
Thanks to A-Data, ASUS and Intel for the hardware :up:

[R.MnTnA]

Just wondering has anybody done an overclock with 1:1 ratio yet? What's the best you can get?

[zlojack]

Just wondering has anybody done an overclock with 1:1 ratio yet? What's the best you can get?

I don't think it's going to work like that.

1:1 ratio would put the RAM at a ridiculously low speed.

[dinos22]

no..RMA bad chips everyday.:ROTF:


Yeah, lol.
Until the shop gets suspicious and refuse to RMA your stuff any more :D

ROFL what if you ARE the shop ;) :D :rofl:

[BenchZowner]

ROFL what if you ARE the shop ;) :D :rofl:

Good idea! ROFL :D

A customer comes in and says: "Sir, I'd like to RMA this E8600, it's a bad clocker, no matter what I do it won't get past 6GHz :p:"

[[XC] gomeler]

0 of 6 is normal........


Retail and ES are the same. The same batch has -60 and -120 chips. Maybe your chips already tested by someone before you got.

Christ.. *jealous*

[George_o/c]

Good idea! ROFL :D

A customer comes in and says: "Sir, I'd like to RMA this E8600, it's a bad clocker, no matter what I do it won't get past 6GHz :p:"

Yeah, but imagine if the seller goes like: "Yeah, tell me about it ... I have tested all the E8600s I got here - which by the way are like 40, one by one on LN2, and none of them was able to pull of an AM3 @ 6.4GHz ... You think is my REX, or what ?"

:D

[mstp2009]

Anyone found a way to change the QPI Multiplier on the P6T?

I'm working w/ a lower-end Gainstown and the QPI bus is limiting the OC.

[T_M]

Harshal, i got the exact same score in 32M last night on EX58-UD5 at just a slightly higher clock (4669MHz).
Interesting to see that efficiency is the same between the two competitors in wPrime at least.

[Movieman]

I got lucky then. I got one chip and it did 4226 on air..
Now if someone can tell me how to get to 4500+ on air or water I'm listening!:D

[T_M]

4226 on air is not uncommon, even my bad chip is doing that :)
The big difference with these chips is under cold

[Movieman]

4226 on air is not uncommon, even my bad chip is doing that :)
The big difference with these chips is under cold

Ahh, thats news to me. I've just seen one higher than that on air so far..Pedro's..
But I'm not a bencher so what do I know..;)

[T_M]

At what volts did you achieve that clock btw?

[Movieman]

At what volts did you achieve that clock btw?

If you mean me, 1.4825v on the cpu, 1.62v on the memory.
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=441673

[T_M]

Ewww, smackover board :P
Was it benchable at that speed or just a screenshot?

[Movieman]

Ewww, smackover board :P
Was it benchable at that speed or just a screenshot?

ran SP1M at that speed

[Movieman]

If I want to sell brand new chips, I just need to send to Intel for replacement.:ROTF:

I'm waiting to hear that they are building a warehouse next door to you to cut down on shipping costs!:rofl:

[AndreYang]

I'm waiting to hear that they are building a warehouse next door to you to cut down on shipping costs!:rofl:


I forgot to say Intel send you DHL return label.:ROTF:

[boblemagnifique]

Andre : I have kill my 965XE ES , you think Intel replace me because I so unsatisfied it doesn't hot ? :D

[npk]

Andre you shouldn´t say those things out loud ;)

[AndreYang]

Andre : I have kill my 965XE ES , you think Intel replace me because I so unsatisfied it doesn't hot ? :D



oh..yeah...change IHS to retail IHS and RMA it.:D

[boblemagnifique]

oh..yeah...change IHS to retail IHS and RMA it.:D

Good Idea :ROTF:

[ol'norton]

I got lucky then. I got one chip and it did 4226 on air..
Now if someone can tell me how to get to 4500+ on air or water I'm listening!:D

I can show you how to get 4400 on stock Intel cooler.
Probably didn't need that sort of VTT, but I just wanted to see what it would do.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3913/9390qm3.jpg

[T_M]

Nice vdimm ;)

[dinos22]

nice OC as well

[Movieman]

I can show you how to get 4400 on stock Intel cooler.


Yes, but thats the Gigabyte board, I'm on the Intel..

[T_M]

Now run 1024M wPrime or PCMark05 please :)

[George_o/c]

Has anyone reported yet, improvements in PCMark05 ?

[T_M]

Note sure if you can say its improvement, but here's my result from last night with only an Intel SSD (no iRams etc):

http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=792285

[Sampsa]

Has anyone reported yet, improvements in PCMark05 ?

Here is mine with 965 @ 4,4 GHz and Intel X25-M 80 GB SSD:

http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=791569

[Harshal]

Congrats on that number Tim :up:
Will give it a try now that I have a decent GPU!

[s e r e n i t y]

Nice work T_M!

[George_o/c]

Thank you guys (Tim and Sampsa) for the replies :)
18167 is pretty much the same score, that somebody can get with an E8xxx @ ~4.5 - 4.7GHz and 2xIRams in Raid=0 ;) Now, when it comes to a Yorkie, things aren't so encouraging ... With about 3.8GHz, 2xRaptors in Raid=0 and some proper tweaking, they can outrun a nelly @ 4.6GHz ...
So, not so sure that there is an improvement, depends on the tweaking of course ... We will see :)

[ol'norton]

Now run 1024M wPrime or PCMark05 please :)

I don't have PCMark 05 installed yet, here's Vantage.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1148/v13423fo8.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=v13423fo8.jpg)

1024M wPrime just isn't going to happen at that speed with the stock cooler :horse: Well not before winter at any rate. :D
This was the best I could do. I got 40% through @ 4380MHz :p:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3867/wp233082hs0.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wp233082hs0.jpg)

But I did get through 1meg @ 4500+ Stock Air :woot:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2878/9156qk0.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9156qk0.jpg)

Oh, and Nice PCMark score Tim :)

[dinos22]

really :banana::banana::banana::banana: CPU man
let me know if you want to sell it :ROTF:
j/k

[Rol-Co]

I don't have PCMark 05 installed yet, here's Vantage.

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=v13423fo8.jpg

1024M wPrime just isn't going to happen at that speed with the stock cooler :horse: Well not before winter at any rate. :D
This was the best I could do. I got 40% through @ 4380MHz :p:

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wp233082hs0.jpg

But I did get through 1meg @ 4500+ Stock Air :woot:

=http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9156qk0.jpg

Oh, and Nice PCMark score Tim :)

Don't know what happend here but the score for the clocks are waaaaaaay to low m8
Last two screens running with a true getting 70-80 degrees load so don't think boxed cooler can do this @ 4400 8 cores load. ;)


air thermalright ultra extreme with proper fan :)

4533 1m
http://www.rol-co.nl/xs/4533-8.891.jpg

4200 vantage
http://www.rol-co.nl/xs/4200-vantage-oc.jpg

4200 wprime 32 and 1024
http://www.rol-co.nl/xs/wprime-4200all-1.39v.jpg

[PytonOrm]

Here is mine with 965 @ 4,4 GHz and Intel X25-M 80 GB SSD:

http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=791569

On Ln2 in hwbot :rolleyes:? hmm not air

[ol'norton]

Don't know what happend here but the score for the clocks are waaaaaaay to low m8

I was really just trying to get through the test @ that speed & have done no tweaking.

:( I don't know what happened there either, at first I put it down to not having triple channel memory, but I see you only have 2GB.
It must have just got too hot. Although the 1meg score is poor too, so :shrug:
I always get the warped one. :mad:

[Rol-Co]

no offence but its not only the 1m who is slow, cpu score vantage is lower and wprime the same.
1 thing is you're running without Ht so basicly you are using only 4 cores, put them all on and you will see the difference. ;)

at my prospective its not possible to run multicore benchmarks at 4400 with a boxed cooler normal temp, they simply can't transport the heat.

try the same with 8 enabled .we'll see.

[T_M]

Yeah HT enabled should reduce your clocks ;)

[ol'norton]

no offence but its not only the 1m who is slow, cpu score vantage is lower and wprime the same.
1 thing is you're running without Ht so basicly you are using only 4 cores, put them all on and you will see the difference. ;)

at my prospective its not possible to run multicore benchmarks at 4400 with a boxed cooler normal temp, they simply can't transport the heat.

try the same with 8 enabled .we'll see.

Thanks mate, :up:
I enabled Hiperthreading & took 1.5 seconds off my 32M WPrime.
Unfortuately I could only get 80% through 1024M because of the extra heat.
I'll get a bracket for my waterblock before I do any more benching.

[FUGGER]

Update


Voltages

vcore ~1.5v, this is a "leaky" high IDV chip, scaling up with higher voltage is possible at a cost of runaway amp phenomena.
vmem ~2.2v for benching 2v on Vapo, compensate voltage with cooling to be safe.
vqpi ~1.35v depending on the board/bclock, upwards of 1.55v if I am pushing bclock, I run a low bclock so I usually leave it on stock.
vmem is the secret to uclk, 2.2v gets you 4.7Ghz ulck. uclk is also known as uncore.

general ratios

Stock QPI on i7 965 is x48 @ 133 bclock, if you raise the bclock to 160ish you would need to drop qpi ratio to X44 to continue raising the bclock to 180ish, drop qpi again to X36 again and that will get you out the theoretic max bclock of 220. That is not set in stone, some chips/board combos have exceeded these numbers but this rule is pretty close to what you will see on C stepping.

The uclk ratio I prefer to use is (the lowest possible) 1:2 of my ram speed (uclk runs at twice the speed of memory) and at lower speeds there are plenty more ratios to scale higher without running the sick memory speeds that I do, this is a huge gain in performance but for me it requires a lot of vmem and high end memory to run upwards of 2300Mhz (4700Mhz uclk) the memory controller has exceptional is its stability at this speed, I have not reached top speed and it will take even faster ram and more vmem to achieve that.

Runaway amp phenomena, I hook an amp meter to the four yellow wires on eight pin power cable that connects near the CPU. Watching this you will see that yes you can keep scaling up with more voltage but your chip has a limit with all cores loaded that it will runaway on amps till it crashes. I know exactly what range to stay in with cores loaded to know not to hit this runaway threshold. Keeping vcore down and disabling HT lets me run at the chips max speed, HT has an added power load on the CPU, disabling it helps gain critical Mhz.

[dinos22]

good info charles

let us know when Intel figures out what causes runaway amps
this is something that needs to be metered it seems

will have to get a meter
if you could link to the one you use it would be handy for members here

good insight into OCing in general
i'll make sure to go over it when i finally start my testing soon :up:

[T_M]

without having measured it i know exactly what you mean about vcore being too much
im still working with my better chip to find the right volts to get highest clock without crashing when i high load hits.

uncore is really handy for PI efficiency ;)

[[XC] gomeler]

Note sure if you can say its improvement, but here's my result from last night with only an Intel SSD (no iRams etc):

http://www.hwbot.org/result.do?resultId=792285

Would be helpful if I had a compare URL so I could see where exactly Core i7 is showing improvements. I suspect though the only improvement you will see will be in the last multi-threaded test with a large storage array. The memory access at 19.x MA/s is impressive and the extra available CPU threads for the actual HDD accessing will help the virus scan score. PCM05 only scales to 4 threads I believe so those 4 HT cores will sit idle or help with background stuff like accessing the HDD array.

[Sampsa]

Runaway amp phenomena, I hook an amp meter to the four yellow wires on eight pin power cable that connects near the CPU. Watching this you will see that yes you can keep scaling up with more voltage but your chip has a limit with all cores loaded that it will runaway on amps till it crashes. I know exactly what range to stay in with cores loaded to know not to hit this runaway threshold. Keeping vcore down and disabling HT lets me run at the chips max speed, HT has an added power load on the CPU, disabling it helps gain critical Mhz.

Hmm, what method are you using to measure the current? Cutting the wires and adding multimeter in series or clip-on ammeter like this http://www.hotektech.com/GMCMetraclip70.htm from one of the yellow wires or from all the yellow wires? What kind of values you see? And what value is the limit (runaway threshold) when cores are loaded? Is it some Intel spec or experimentally figured value? Thanks :)

edit: looks like you can use LTS 25-NP current sensor:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article313-page4.html

Product page: http://www.lemusa.com/hq/en/component/option,com_catalog/task,displaymodel/id,90.37.19.000.0/

[slash777]

My i7 920, VID : 0.975 ;)

http://www.abload.de/thumb/0.944vsue6.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=0.944vsue6.jpg)

[dinos22]

Hmm, what method are you using to measure the current? Cutting the wires and adding multimeter in series or clip-on ammeter like this http://www.hotektech.com/GMCMetraclip70.htm from one of the yellow wires or from all the yellow wires? What kind of values you see? And what value is the limit (runaway threshold) when cores are loaded? Is it some Intel spec or experimentally figured value? Thanks :)

edit: looks like you can use LTS 25-NP current sensor:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article313-page4.html

Product page: http://www.lemusa.com/hq/en/component/option,com_catalog/task,displaymodel/id,90.37.19.000.0/
he doesnt do any modding/cutting

just a cheap clip on meter

[[XC] gomeler]

Are we positive the CPU pulls all it's power only from the 12v line? No power is drawn from the 24 pin ATX connector or is it "negligible"?

edit: we know the CPU pulls power from the 24-pin connector, these boards will run without the 12v line plugged in :)



My i7 920, VID : 0.975 ;)

Something special there? My E8600 will run with similar vcore and it's been abused to no end :confused:

[T_Flight]

Thanks Fugger for the post on "Runaway Amp Phenomena". I learned something new today. :up:

[makaka]

huh ............ 24 k of memory bandwidth are u kidding ???????.
Congrats on those results , i hope that core i7 will be available here soon , i need to do some benchies , i am tired from LGA 775:-)

[FUGGER]

Here is a pic of the amp meter attached to the 12v lines.

This is an example of where to attach, do not purchase model shown.

[eva2000]

Fugger was runaway amps only on Gigabyte board or other brands ? could it be related to Gigabyte X58's voltage controller/load line calibration not working and needing Gigabyte to revise the board ??

[freshy]

Fugger was runaway amps only on Gigabyte board or other brands ? could it be related to Gigabyte X58's voltage controller/load line calibration not working and needing Gigabyte to revise the board ??


i hope the ud5 is a good board ? i just bought one :shrug:

[pinto]

New toy, watercooled on P6T deluxe:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7865/pi1453ghz9078ua9.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pi1453ghz9078ua9.jpg)http://img74.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7687/3d0544ghz36803of2.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3d0544ghz36803of2.jpg)http://img153.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4337/3d0643ghz27919ao1.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3d0643ghz27919ao1.jpg)http://img359.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1760/aquamark44ghz318276fp7.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aquamark44ghz318276fp7.jpg)http://img74.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[FUGGER]

All boards, first seen on Smackover day one.

More feedback from people, we will probably see the F1 pot being able to run into higher amps than cascade.

It would be good to know what others are peaking at.

[T_M]

Unfortunately i dont have one of those puppies, so anyone else?

[Sampsa]

Unfortunately i dont have one of those puppies, so anyone else?

I'll go check local stores today if I can find clamp-on current meter, should get new 965 chip to play with tomorrow and LN2 on friday :up:

[Sampsa]

My local shop had this for 100 euros:

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/clamp/MS2108A.jpg

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/MS2108.htm

They need to order it so it will take couple of days. Should do the job right?

[blossa]

It should be ok. 0.1A intervall should be good enough atleast to see how the trend is.

Nice function that "clamp on frequency function". I have never seen that before. :) Another good function is capacitance measuring. However, i am not sure if it has that as it is not mentioned in the detailed specification... Peak function might get usefull aswell.

[LardArse]

My local shop had this for 100 euros:

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/clamp/MS2108A.jpg

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/MS2108.htm

They need to order it so it will take couple of days. Should do the job right?

woahhh I think I can get one for 10 euros with lesser bling :D

[Slovnaft]

ahaha, the other day I accidentally bought an hvac clamp meter, now i find out it'll come in handy!

might this 'runaway amp' phenomenon be related to the new power shifting algorithims?

[Praz]

Runaway amp phenomena, I hook an amp meter to the four yellow wires on eight pin power cable that connects near the CPU. Watching this you will see that yes you can keep scaling up with more voltage but your chip has a limit with all cores loaded that it will runaway on amps till it crashes.
What average amperage are you seeing before runaway happens?

[TiN_]

Aren't that clamp meters only AC? AFAIK they able to measure only AC currents, not DC +12V.

[FUGGER]

"AC/DC Clamp Meter"

[Sampsa]

Aren't that clamp meters only AC? AFAIK they able to measure only AC currents, not DC +12V.

There are models which support only AC, but also models supporting both AC/DC.

[dinos22]

woahhh I think I can get one for 10 euros with lesser bling :D

damn you guys
everything is cheap there :p:
bloody LN2 is almost free, not to mention all the other stuff....if it wasnt so humid maybe it would be a nice place to move to hahahah

[EmineM]

I got mine from http://www.conrad.com/ for 30 Euros.
they ship to several European countries, im not sure if they ship out of the EU.

[oktay76]

good early bloomfield oc-results fugger, good work. finite u will get such results with an amd deneb too with ln2 of course....;)

[LardArse]

Why doesn't anyone admit that there is a high voltage cold bug with these cpus? Anyone who's benched them cold should know.

[HDCHOPPER]

ok sham eye believe ya .... but it's going to take a while for me to try lol

[Movieman]

Why doesn't anyone admit that there is a high voltage cold bug with these cpus? Anyone who's benched them cold should know.

Hey, it was cold in my office when I benched..
I took the room down to 68F from 72F..:rofl:

[BenchZowner]

Hey, it was cold in my office when I benched..
I took the room down to 68F from 72F..:rofl:

ROFL :rofl:
That's still hot m8 :D

p.s. Glad to see you're back Dave ;)

[Fr3ak]

Either I am blind or the information about this runaway amp thing is not in this thread. How does it show practically?

I just finished my X58 roundup. I tested for max BCLK and measured CPU and memory voltage idle and load. Didnt notice anything suspicious, but when I used the 965 for WCG, it didnt produce a single wrong calculation for 16 hours then suddenly restarted, which is pretty odd as temps were even lower than the day before.

Surprisingly the MSI and Biostar board git the highest BCLK. Biostar up to 222 MHz for 1M, 218 MHz Prime 95. MSI hit 220 MHz Prime stable and 1M stable at the same speed. Asus boards were close. 215 MHz stable, 218 MHz 1M, Rampage II Extreme being slightly worse than P6T. Intel board sucked big time: 185 MHz 1M and 180 MHz Prime. The Gigabyte board refused to boot after making any changes in the BIOS with the 965, while it ran fine on 920. Bad sample I guess, didnt do any further testing.

I cant remember the performance numbers, but P6T was fastest on 32M. 1M was close on all boards. The Biostar was pretty fast for 3D, so was the RIIE.

[woffen]

What about the Evga X58, was that part of your tests?

[Fr3ak]

No, the EVGA is not ready yet, afaik.

[Sampsa]

Either I am blind or the information about this runaway amp thing is not in this thread. How does it show practically?


No you are not blind, I'm also hoping for some more information regarding this subject. In my tests I have measured 17,8A from ATX +12V yellow wires when CPU-test ran ok @ 4,644 GHz. Sometimes system crashed @ 16,3A. How can we benefit in overclocking observing the amps?

Seems like 3DMark Vantage's GT1 and GT2 are drawing very little power from PSU (4,5 GHz run):

http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/965_2_02.jpg

12,14V * 3,8A = 46,132W

Then CPU-test 1:

http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/965_2_03.jpg
12,07V * 16,8A = 202,776A

There is no time to react with ESC key and stop the CPU-test when system freezes and amps drop from ~17A to 6,8A or something.

FUGGER? Dr Who?

[The-Fox]

Update:

The uclk ratio I prefer to use is (the lowest possible) 1:2 of my ram speed (uclk runs at twice the speed of memory) and at lower speeds there are plenty more ratios to scale higher without running the sick memory speeds that I do, this is a huge gain in performance but for me it requires a lot of vmem and high end memory to run upwards of 2300Mhz (4700Mhz uclk) the memory controller has exceptional is its stability at this speed, I have not reached top speed and it will take even faster ram and more vmem to achieve that.


Fugger, is there any real world/synthetic improvements running the memory/uncore in higher speeds ?
Moreover, how does lower/higher timings affect performance, e.g., 7-7-7 vs 9-9-9 ? I wonder if the performance scale with better timing.

[Micutzu]

"Runaway" is generally en engineering term that describes a abnormal functioning of a part, running in a cause-generates-effect-generates-cause loop. For example, when current passes trough an electronic part some power is dissipated in the form of heat, equal to the part's electrical resistance times the square of the passing current. But the heat is increasing the part's resistance, so the power dissipated on it will increase, wich will make the part even hotter and making it dissipate even more power and so on, usually until either the part self-destructs or a protection system shuts it down. This is called "Thermal Runaway".

I am assuming Fugger noticed a point over wich the current drawn by the CPU increases rapidly because some transistors / junctions enter some kind of loop. There is one chance that it could be simple leakage (unwanted current flow trough theoretically-closed transistors), but i wouldn't bet on it since Intel's 45nm high-k process showed no such problems and the subzero temps should cancel them anyway pretty easy. The second guess, and my money is on this one, is that Nehalem's design is somewhat unfit for high voltages and over a certain value it just starts letting current pass trough it like there's no tomorrow. I have also noticed myself that over about 1.5V things stop scaling, from +50C all the way down to -80C, and this can only be happening due to electronic design.

[Jor3lBR]

"Runaway" is generally en engineering term that describes a abnormal functioning of a part, running in a cause-generates-effect-generates-cause loop. For example, when current passes trough an electronic part some power is dissipated in the form of heat, equal to the part's electrical resistance times the square of the passing current. But the heat is increasing the part's resistance, so the power dissipated on it will increase, wich will make the part even hotter and making it dissipate even more power and so on, usually until either the part self-destructs or a protection system shuts it down. This is called "Thermal Runaway".

I am assuming Fugger noticed a point over wich the current drawn by the CPU increases rapidly because some transistors / junctions enter some kind of loop. There is one chance that it could be simple leakage (unwanted current flow trough theoretically-closed transistors), but i wouldn't bet on it since Intel's 45nm high-k process showed no such problems and the subzero temps should cancel them anyway pretty easy. The second guess, and my money is on this one, is that Nehalem's design is somewhat unfit for high voltages and over a certain value it just starts letting current pass trough it like there's no tomorrow. I have also noticed myself that over about 1.5V things stop scaling, from +50C all the way down to -80C, and this can only be happening due to electronic design.

If confirmed and not 'solved' that's a big set back for OC.

[eva2000]

"Runaway" is generally en engineering term that describes a abnormal functioning of a part, running in a cause-generates-effect-generates-cause loop. For example, when current passes trough an electronic part some power is dissipated in the form of heat, equal to the part's electrical resistance times the square of the passing current. But the heat is increasing the part's resistance, so the power dissipated on it will increase, wich will make the part even hotter and making it dissipate even more power and so on, usually until either the part self-destructs or a protection system shuts it down. This is called "Thermal Runaway".

I am assuming Fugger noticed a point over wich the current drawn by the CPU increases rapidly because some transistors / junctions enter some kind of loop. There is one chance that it could be simple leakage (unwanted current flow trough theoretically-closed transistors), but i wouldn't bet on it since Intel's 45nm high-k process showed no such problems and the subzero temps should cancel them anyway pretty easy. The second guess, and my money is on this one, is that Nehalem's design is somewhat unfit for high voltages and over a certain value it just starts letting current pass trough it like there's no tomorrow. I have also noticed myself that over about 1.5V things stop scaling, from +50C all the way down to -80C, and this can only be happening due to electronic design.
If that's the case maybe the issue is specific to FUGGER's cpu and a select few, considering his cpus are on average clocking higher than most folks ??

[Gautam]

Why doesn't anyone admit that there is a high voltage cold bug with these cpus? Anyone who's benched them cold should know.

:yepp:

[Fr3ak]

Sounds more like a high voltage bug to me.

Does the (totally stupip, my opinion) Turbo-mode have something to do with the high voltage issues?

[Viss]

High volt when cold it seems.

[Micutzu]

If that's the case maybe the issue is specific to FUGGER's cpu and a select few, considering his cpus are on average clocking higher than most folks ??

Until more guys measure the current somehow we can't know but i am assuming all the chips have the same problem. Mine for example barely did 4.6Ghz @ 1.47V / -50C and the rig was pulling almost 400W in full 8-threaded load from the wall with only 3GB RAM, one HDD and one 8400GS VGA. Pretty high in my opinion considering the low core voltage, too bad at the time i tested i was unaware of the problem and didn't keep my eyes on the wattmeter all the time.

[Sampsa]

Hmm, maybe this whole thing is only affecting FUGGER's chip because the text he posted earlier looks like someone is describing the CPU for him (Fracois from Intel)?

"vcore ~1.5v, this is a "leaky" high IDV chip, scaling up with higher voltage is possible at a cost of runaway amp phenomena."

"your chip has a limit with all cores loaded that it will runaway on amps till it crashes." FUGGER's post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3437173&postcount=201)

Francois explains here that there are Core i7 CPUs like the one he and FUGGER are going to use to do similar demo than AMD did with Phenom II:

"freak of statistic, this part is not in the middle distribution of the curve, it actually leak some serious current ... but it does OC, really, like hell." DrWho?'s post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3446282&postcount=307)

If this is the case, we won't see runaway amp phenomena on "normal" ES and retail CPUs because those are not high leaking chips.

+ we also can't compare our results to FUGGER's chip since they aren't "leaky" high IDV chips picked by Intel :)

[Micutzu]

What i understand from Fugger's post is that there's a Vcore limit after wich the current just goes insane; the fact of the matter is that all the Core i7 results i've seen so far stop scaling around 1.5V, just like Fugger's chip.

Usual current leakage is a different matter though, I also noticed that high-leak parts (hotter chips) usually do well under subzero but it doesn't have anything to do with the 1.5V limit. Low temperature cancels transistor leaks and under LN2 the 1.5V limit, if it would be caused by regular leakage, would be moved much higher or even disappear completely. But instead it remains at the same value, wich proves it is NOT caused by electrons / voids jumping trough the transistor's insulating layer.

[Sampsa]

We will get video of this topic next week so stay tuned :)

[brolloks]

I'm new around here and thought I would post some of my experiences here. This is all on water cooling.

My thread over at OCF :)

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=583975

[JPQY]

Great results you have brolloks:up:

JP.

[Drwho?]

Yes, I am flying to Fugger's Light city this week, and I am taking some serious Kung Fu with me, from the crazy parts, to the super Kung Fu unlocking reserved for Manufacturers ...
The point I was to make is not the max frequency, it is more about fact that a Manufacturer demo is kind of pointless, out of the 100 000 Core i7 we already shipped the day of launch, it is obvious that some of them are just awesome crazy chips.
A manufacturer demo of extreme Overclocking is rarely representative to what the CPUs are on the market.
Since Conroe, I am very carefull not to use Picked processors (When I start controling the perf demos) ... I am going to show you what happen when you actually use picked parts.
The process technology people are actually able to understand what limit a CPU, so, if you look for it, you find a part that will be out of the distribution, but will still quality to sell. Those usually end up into the extreme edition and finish running at high frequency aircool into an OEM build machine, or in a Boxed Extreme Edition. Now, we of course sort them, and we got some extreme extreme parts.
Manufacturer of processors should stick to demonstrate what they are selling, not something that they cannot quaranty to its customer.
when I showed Skulltrail at 4.0Ghz, I knew that thermal cooling was the limits, and the QX9775 were all able to run at 4.0Ghz, if properly installed. (we did not want to quaranty it, for obvious reasons, but it was possible, the only impact was to decrease the life of the CPU)
If a processor does not always archive a frequency, I refuse to show it publically, it avoid to set up expectation that you can not follow up with a real product. Those are my guide lines, and I think everybody is fairly happy of it. I ll break the rule this week , but I want all of you guys to understand that it is not what a CPU maker should be showing. It is about setting expectation.

This baby is running at 4.8Ghz aircooled, without pushing voltage much:
http://www.v12extreme.com/post/IMG_6158.JPG
I know that this baby will fly, because mathematically speaking, it shows the right caracteristic.

I am waiting 5 mores like this Monday, directly from the men who sort them.

(Notice that I go super honnest on the disclosure side)