promie leak

[vince999]

ok i got my promie 1 apart last night, to fit a nice 2.8c, had the cpu to just over 4 ghz but wasn't happy with the temps. not a good connection, took the head off the mobo, put it back on and i could hear a leak, it only leaked when the promie was on,
i tried it as chipcon say, run it alone, and the temps stay about ambient, 14c, or so..
so, how can i get the head apart to find the leak, and fix it, any guides?
may as well mod the promie to 404a at the same time now..
thanks..

was looking for a nice new 03 score, getting upto 7.7-7.8k. not now though, just as well i didn't put my v-mods on, probably have blown the board as well.

[JCviggen]

You probably damaged the hose by taking it off or twisting it too much. The Mach 1 proms are very sensitive to that. It must have developed the leak when you took it off. The leak will be in the thermal bus and it hard to repair. Unless you have a lot of suitable equipment around the only way you are going to get a working prom is go to a fridge shop to have it repaired, or RMA it to nVENTIV

[Pimpsho]

Originally posted by JCviggen
You probably damaged the hose by taking it off or twisting it too much. The Mach 1 proms are very sensitive to that. It must have developed the leak when you took it off. The leak will be in the thermal bus and it hard to repair. Unless you have a lot of suitable equipment around the only way you are going to get a working prom is go to a fridge shop to have it repaired, or RMA it to nVENTIV
or just see if bowman has ne spare room in his shot;) hes kickin out prommis like candi! i think he fixed jcviggen's right? or wait was it oppainter?

[vince999]

thanks, i was thinking about taking it to a fridge shop, but i'm not sure if they will know how to do the head..
i think the rma is out as well, had it to long

[bowman1964]

well sure sounds like the thermobus cracked,

remove all the insulation maybe you will see it.may help the refrigeration guy in finding it.do all you can yorself and it will save you some money.

as far as someone reconmended me...well i am taking a break for a few months.working on some today,but i need play time myself.finishing up what i have and it's a break for me.

[Pimpsho]

ah thats sad to hear but i would agree that u would get burned out after a while

[vince999]

ok, thanks,, just hope its around one of the pies rather than in the head, shame i've only had it 13 months.....i thought it would have lasted a bit longer than that..

[Marci]

Gimme a week or two and we'll be able to fix it in the UK for ya... but it'll cost a bit if it's gonna be needin a new evap...

[vince999]

ok thanks marci, i'll have a look round here 1st, see what i can get sorted, if i possibly can,
but i'll get back to you..

[Walrusbonzo]

I found out that the problem with my Prommie is a crack in the evap hose also. It's about where the hose appears from the main unit, there is a bad bend there and I can feel that it is very weak. :(

It's under warranty though so I should beable to RMA it.

Otherwise, Marci how much to fix the Evap hose and top it up with R404a? Send me a PM if you don't like to discuss costs here.
Thanks.

Vince - Does yours make a really bad smell when you turn it off? Mine releases a bad smell from where the crack is on my Prommie.

[vince999]

didn't smell anything.. just heard a hissing noise...
unlucky for me i've had mine just 13 months,, i thought they were supposed to last years.. high quality and all that,

[Pimpsho]

ya they will last years and years if handled propperly...not sayin u man handled yours allot but there pretty fragile right at the head so any wrong move and u could be in for a long ride...

[vince999]

had the head off a few times, never tried stretching it or anything,, don't think i put any strain on it, maybe it was just a weak pipe.. waiting for chip con, or their new name to get back to me about it..

[Ewok]

Originally posted by JCviggen
You probably damaged the hose by taking it off or twisting it too much. The Mach 1 proms are very sensitive to that. It must have developed the leak when you took it off. The leak will be in the thermal bus and it hard to repair. Unless you have a lot of suitable equipment around the only way you are going to get a working prom is go to a fridge shop to have it repaired, or RMA it to nVENTIV

he cant RMA it, as they have said before to several people on here, they wont take back a mach1 thats had a leak along the tube or near the evap head because they said its down to user error.

[Marci]

Yep... damage in that area can only be caused by user negligence basically... no matter how slight that negligence was. If I remember rightly, warranty covers compressor faults, controller faults and electronics damage. Any damage to hosing is usually caused either by user or courier in shipping... and if it's at the case join then they'll just say that the case has been manhandled.

Don't have mod prices yet... like I said.... gimme a week or two.

Can't just top up with 404a. It ain't that simple.... read up on the regas more on these forums to find out all the other stuff involved. Only person I know of with a Promi on 404a unmodded is TooFast with a MkII on 404a without mods.... but never seen any proof other than a pic of the evap at -70, which mine displays with 134a... (dodgy Chip-Con probe calibrations *tsk*)

[vince999]

maybe thats why toofast sold it, lol,
i got his vapo for my raddy, and his 2.8c, which i havn't had much chance to use yet.. had it to 4.1ghz b4 the leak happened..
is there a link to the regassing bit, couldn't find it on here..
thanks..
ok something about changing the length of the capillary tube. but why, does it need to be longer cause of the new gas?

don't suppose i could put the head in a bucket of water to try and see where the leak is, may help later..

[Walrusbonzo]

Marci... You are top of my list for people to ask to fix my prommie. I'll be in touch.

Thanks

[vince999]

so can i put the head in some water, to try and find the leak, would give me a better idea as to where the leak is..

[Walrusbonzo]

I guess so.

I think I might take off the insulation and find the fault myself, then get a refridgeratin expert in to have a look at, want the damn thing running this week TBH.

[vince999]

i feel the same,
pain without the promie going, i've got to use the kids pc 4 now..

[Gary Lloyd]

ok something about changing the length of the capillary tube. but why, does it need to be longer cause of the new gas?


The ideal is to feed just enough refrigerant through the cap tube to handle the heat load. When you switch to a higher pressure refrigerant, the high side pressure is higher, thus pushing more refrigerant through the cap tube than is needed. By lengthening the cap tube it is more restrictive, bringing the refrigerant flow back down to what is needed.

[Walrusbonzo]

Just had a guy come round... The Evap hose has broke where the solid copper pipe and the flexi hose meet. Totally snapped!!!

He said it'd be £50 to fix that and top it back up with gas.

He said he'd probably use 413a(known as 49 in the industry he said), he said 413a is better to use than R134a, any truth in this?

[vince999]

ok, thanks,
i can just about understand that lol

would have thought with the numbers it would have been the same gas, don't know..

just tried the head in some water, no bubbles, so maybe mines a leak in the pipes rather than the head, which would be easier and cheaper i assume..

[Walrusbonzo]

Take off the braid and insulation. It was so easy to see the brake on mine with it off....

Mine was broke at about 4 inches above where the evap hose appears from the main unit.

[vince999]

got it, just above the main rigid pipe. about 1inch onto the flexi hose..
hope mine won't cost too much either..

[Walrusbonzo]

LOL, that's EXACTLY where mine is broke! I just phoned another place, they said £45-50 +VAT. So I guess most places would be £50 to £70 inc. VAT for something like this.

[vince999]

must be a design fault then, poor materials maybe...:D

[Marci]

is there a link to the regassing bit, couldn't find it on here..
thanks..
ok something about changing the length of the capillary tube. but why, does it need to be longer cause of the new gas?


Sticky posts at the top of this section of the forum. The ones that are about 20 pages long... there are LOADS of posts in this section of XS on the matter.

He said he'd probably use 413a(known as 49 in the industry he said), he said 413a is better to use than R134a, any truth in this?

I wouldn't.... not without checking with someone who knows Prommi's inside out (ie: Bowman) first... Fridges and Prommi's may be the same essential technology, but the two are far apart in many respects...

Gas specifications: http://www.acca.org/news/presentations/ref_summary.pdf

See page 5.

[Walrusbonzo]

Thanks Marci.

The guy did say he could get me if r134a or r404a if nessecary

[vince999]

just spoken to someone, says they can do it about £60, but only r134a, so may have to go 4 that again.. i'll keep looking.

[Walrusbonzo]

R413 does appear to be very similar to R134a going by that table.

Infact, looks like it's a mixture of R134a, Butane and Propane? Is that right?

Temps are better with R413, will it make much difference though? I just don't want my compressor packing up, as long as I get near r134a performance I'll be ok I think.

[vince999]

just had a claim form from nvintiv or what ever, got my pipe stripped down now, insulation off,
don't think they will help.
some people i've spoken too think i may need a new pipe, re gassing is easy they say, only r134a though.

[Walrusbonzo]

Right, if I go down the R404a route I'll need the Capillary tube extending. Is 36" a good length?

Sorry to steal your post vince999, but I guess this could help you too.

EDIT: Just read someone saying 62/63 inches is best.... hmmmm

[vince999]

n.p.
i think i read somewhere else on here that 36in was ok, another post..

[]JR[]

1.5m was the going length i though... whats that in inches 59"

]JR[

[vince999]

yeah, about that, seems a bit long to me,,
just read in here, pops says 1.5mtrs as well

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20646

if the crack is just in the outer bit of the pipe, should it effect the inner pipe, i.e break that as well?
as that would be easier to fix..

[Walrusbonzo]

Right.... He can get R404a, but at a cost of £150, as he doesn't have a container of it he'd have to buy a new one. So I'll give this a miss.

R413a is slightly better than R134a and he's coming on Wednesday to fix it, he said he's happy to do it at mine for me to watch as well :D

Can't wait :)

[vince999]

ok, is the cpillary tube inside the suction tube,(i.e 2 in 1) or is the cappilary tube the copper bit wound round the main steel tube?

[Walrusbonzo]

Capillary is the thin tube wrapped around the other thicker tube.

[vince999]

so theres nothing else in the steel tube then, no plastic or anything, should just need welding, brazing to fix it..

[Walrusbonzo]

Exactly, the guy said mine needed brazing.

[vince999]

that will make life easier then, couple of people i was talking 2 said the pipe might need to be replaced, if it's just brazing and filling,.. thats easy...and cheaper..

[Marci]

But you'll end up with a permanent weak-spot on the pipe... it's SAFEST in the long term to get the entire section replaced... remember, last thing you want is this thing repairing on the cheap (altho your 404a quote is EXTORTIONATE.... s'only £100 for a 10 kilo bottle, and at 60 - 70g per unit, that works out at around 60p's worth of gas) and then a month down the line it goes AGAIN, cos then you'll have another repair and regas bill to deal with... and depending in what way it goes, a CPU & Mobo to replace.

It cost us £75 to get our Vapo PE modded up to 404a by a local guy outta the phone book.

[Walrusbonzo]

I think the guy has a warranty on repairs, I'll check.

As for r404a topup, the guy has none, so he'd have to buy a whole new container, which is why he said it'd be near to £150 to do the lot.

[Popcicle]

Building a Prommy "clone" from scratch and
using 404a needs 10ft (120in) of .028 cap tube.

.028 ID is the closest thing we have here to the
actual cap tube used by Chip-Con. And it is very
close.

Tom Holck was the one who actually figured out
an additional 1.5M of cap tube is needed for 404a.
And I give credit to him.

[vince999]

give me a pm marci, when you have time, if you can re-fit my promie with 404a and a new pipe, and cost etc,
thanks.
vince

[vince999]

ah, chip con want me to send it back, not sure if they are going to repair it or send me a new 1, i'll keep you posted..