I've had it with my X-Fi extreme gamer ...

[M31]

And I've had it with Creative Labs once and for all as well.

I've been through several of their cards and over the weekend This current X-Fi Extreme gamer developed crackling and hissing and the sound was suddenly tinny in quality, I did un-install the drivers and download latest fresh ones but no improvement, also tried switching modes back and forth.

Any recommendations for a decent replacement sound card? maybe a PCI-E one this time? or should I try the on-board sound (add on card) for my Asus Rampage Formula motherboard... anyone tried it?

I like a sound card mainly for Games and MP3 listening through headphones.

Thanks in advance.

[Jamesrt2004]

Asus xonar D2?

[SoulsCollective]

What bitrate MP3s? If you're listening to lossy formats anyway, no need to spend money on a top-end card.

[gxavier]

Listening to lossy MP3's on headphones doesn't require much, but I agree with James in that the Asus is an awesome alternative to Creative.

The Xonar is definately my next card if my X-Fi ever dies. Fortunately I've been pretty lucky in general with my creative cards.

[M31]

Thanks guys, was thinking about the Asus Xonar, is this one OK? I see a couple of more expensive models but not sure that they offer much more?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-002-AS&tool=3

[shaithis]

That should do you fine. All the Xonar cards seem to have the best sound clarity that I have heard to date from a PC, I fail to see why that model should be any different.

They also have drivers that......work ;)

Don't expect flawless environmental sounds in all games though, although it's a small price to pay for the other features.

[M31]

Thanks.

It turns out the X-Fi card is OK after all and it was my headset that was broken, so have ordered a new Sennheiser PC350 pro gaming headset and a new Logitech G15 today.

I will buy a Xonar soon as my next upgrade, there have been other problems with the X-Fi.

[XtremeBawls]

I went with the Auzentech Prelude 7.1 sound card just a few weeks ago and do not regret it. I was debating whether to get PCI or PCI-E, but do not regret staying with PCI. I too had an Xtreme Gamer before the Prelude. I run Optical out to my Onkoy S4100 5.1 Home Audio speakers and sound quality is a huge jump over the Xtreme Gamer.

[man_bear_pig]

I love my D2, and the drivers worked from day one.

[M31]

I was debating whether to get PCI or PCI-E, but do not regret staying with PCI.

Is there any performance penalty or any other kind of loss by choosing a PCI-E sound card? Looking at my Asus Rampage Formula and knowing I will be adding a second 4870 soon for Crossfire ... I'd be better choosing a PCI-E card if possible, this would leave the top PCI slot free for a possible TV card in the future.

[lowfat]

I went with the Auzentech Prelude 7.1 sound card just a few weeks ago and do not regret it. I was debating whether to get PCI or PCI-E, but do not regret staying with PCI. I too had an Xtreme Gamer before the Prelude. I run Optical out to my Onkoy S4100 5.1 Home Audio speakers and sound quality is a huge jump over the Xtreme Gamer.

You would notice an even bigger jump in quality if you used analog cables instead of toslink.

[lowfat]

Is there any performance penalty or any other kind of loss by choosing a PCI-E sound card? Looking at my Asus Rampage Formula and knowing I will be adding a second 4870 soon for Crossfire ... I'd be better choosing a PCI-E card if possible, this would leave the top PCI slot free for a possible TV card in the future.


The Xonar's are software driven cards AFAIK. That is the only drawback from them.

And just so you know the Prelude uses damn near identical drives as Creative's own X-Fi.

[M31]

The Xonar's are software driven cards AFAIK. That is the only drawback from them.

.

Does that mean there is a CPU hit when using a Xonar sound card?

Maybe I'm better just sticking with the X-Fi ??

[lowfat]

Does that mean there is a CPU hit when using a Xonar sound card?



From what i know, yes.

[Donnie27]

I went with the Auzentech Prelude 7.1 sound card just a few weeks ago and do not regret it. I was debating whether to get PCI or PCI-E, but do not regret staying with PCI. I too had an Xtreme Gamer before the Prelude. I run Optical out to my Onkoy S4100 5.1 Home Audio speakers and sound quality is a huge jump over the Xtreme Gamer.

There is no difference when comparing digital out BTW! I own a X-Fi Auzentech and the Xtreme Music. Analog out is where the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude shines:up:

I'm using an Harmon Kardon 247 7.1 Receiver and Massive DIY 5.1 speakers!

[M31]

From what i know, yes.

So why do people buy these cards? they are supposed to be very highly rated.

Maybe I'm missing something, do all sound cards have this CPU hit? I've been lead to believe that off board sound cards, especially newer once with on board processing and ram can do all their own work and leave the CPU to do more important things ... in my case, crunch FSX when I'm using it.

I keep reading Xonar is so much better than CL X-Fi, and now that I have owned a couple of X-Fi cards and am thinking of changing for the better, its all upside down again ??

Seriously, now that I have bought a new headset and tweaked it and my X-Fi Extreme Gamer to sound really good to my ears, why should I go and buy a Xonar if it will have a negative impact on my FPS in FSX?

The whole reason for the existence of this machine is to be a quick FSX Computer.

LOL ... the Joys of Computing.

[lowfat]

The Xonar is a better sounding card but the codec used on it is still a software driven codec unlike the X-Fi. If you want the best of both words, the Prelude is the answer. However it still uses modified Creative drivers.

[M31]

So ... I should just stick with my CL X-Fi Extreme Gamer ... Right?

I cant afford to go out and buy and test all sound cards out there.

[lowfat]

Depends. If you want the absolute best frame rate, then likely yes. Want better sound quality but a drop of a few FPS and not have to deal with Creative's drivers, then the Xonar.

[man_bear_pig]

Its a minimal hit at best. There is a good reason why the Xonar is so praised.

[SoulsCollective]

Look, this is CPU cycles we're talking about here. You'd have to be gaming at silly resolutions (640 or 800) before you'd see any perceptible FPS drop - at any decent resolution your FPS is limited by your VGAs, not CPU. The Xonar is not going to eat up your FPS.

On the question of the Prelude, though, it sounds worlds better than any of the vanilla X-Fi's except the Elite Pro (which offers about the same level of quality as, although I'd still say the Prelude is better) - which is ridiculously expensive. The Prelude offers you the X-Fi processor and comes with 64MB of onboard RAM, meaning that there's no software processing required, and sounds so much better than the Xtreme Gamer when using analogue - so if you can afford it I'd get that.

[M31]

Is this the card you Guys are talking about?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductID=615674&source=froogle

If so, its not as expensive as I thought it would be, might just go for it.

Cheers.

[lowfat]

Yes that would be it. 122 pounds? Seems kinda pricey. Up until 2 weeks ago we could get them for $140 CAD here.

[M31]

Thats our pound for you ... Still I've spent more on sound cards in the past ... I was about £250 for my AWE32 when it first came out in the mid 90's.

Thanks for your help and clarification ... I like my sound, not just for games but my music as well.

[SoulsCollective]

X-Fi Prelude, yep, that's the one. Can't recommend it enough.

[Cool Vibrations]

Hope this guide (http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/preludeandxonarsoundcards/index.php) helps you. :)

[SoulsCollective]

Interesting, but old. Since then full DTS and DDL support has been added to the Prelude via driver update.

[Biker]

Prelude?

+1

Just wanted to agree that the Prelude is fantastic... especially with digital 5.1 and movies.

It simply blows me away.

I have been making / listening to music on the PC for years and to my ears it is the best you can get for your money it its price point.

Recommended.

[lowfat]

Prelude?

+1

Just wanted to agree that the Prelude is fantastic... especially with digital 5.1 and movies.

It simply blows me away.

I have been making / listening to music on the PC for years and to my ears it is the best you can get for your money it its price point.

Recommended.
Except that there will be absolutely no different between a cheapo soundcard vs a Prelude when using digital.

[M31]

Yes that would be it. 122 pounds? Seems kinda pricey. Up until 2 weeks ago we could get them for $140 CAD here.

Yikes its now £131 + delivery ... I'd better grab it before our pound is worth nothing ... damn recession :(

[s e r e n i t y]

Sold my X-Fi a while ago.

Good for about 6 months then problem after problem after problem. Drivers, crackling, hissing, everything. :/

Getting an Asus Xonar DX soon, cant wait hear how it sounds :)

[lowfat]

I've had my Titanium for ~ 2 months. Just did a reinstall of Vista 64-bit and now everytime I pause a movie in PowerDVD 7, it crackles for the rest of the movie. Getting rather annoying. I don't know if it is just a problem with TrueHD soundtracks, but it is starting to piss me off.

[Donnie27]

I've had my Titanium for ~ 2 months. Just did a reinstall of Vista 64-bit and now everytime I pause a movie in PowerDVD 7, it crackles for the rest of the movie. Getting rather annoying. I don't know if it is just a problem with TrueHD soundtracks, but it is starting to piss me off.

Re-install your motherboard's Chipset Drivers?

[KamuiRSX]

And I've had it with Creative Labs once and for all as well.

I've been through several of their cards and over the weekend This current X-Fi Extreme gamer developed crackling and hissing and the sound was suddenly tinny in quality, I did un-install the drivers and download latest fresh ones but no improvement, also tried switching modes back and forth.

Any recommendations for a decent replacement sound card? maybe a PCI-E one this time? or should I try the on-board sound (add on card) for my Asus Rampage Formula motherboard... anyone tried it?

I like a sound card mainly for Games and MP3 listening through headphones.

Thanks in advance.
The Auzentech Prelude is a fantastic card. Also, which drivers are you using? Have you tried the Daniel_K drivers? I've got an X-FI Xtreme Gamer and so far it rocks. No hissing, crackling or anything. What speakers are you using as well?

[SoulsCollective]

I wouldn't recommend getting the Xtreme Gamer. It's basically the same card as the old Xtreme Music, just in half-height. Back in '05 when I got my XtremeMusic, there was a significant difference in sound quality between the onboard on my DFI nF4-SLi DR, so I was a happy camper. Comparing it to the onboard on my P5E3 Premium, however, there's very little difference. Onboard has come a long way in a short time. Comparing the onboard to the Creative and then to my Prelude, however, there's a world of difference - significant enough to make it worth the price.

[Donnie27]

I wouldn't recommend getting the Xtreme Gamer. It's basically the same card as the old Xtreme Music, just in half-height. Back in '05 when I got my XtremeMusic, there was a significant difference in sound quality between the onboard on my DFI nF4-SLi DR, so I was a happy camper. Comparing it to the onboard on my P5E3 Premium, however, there's very little difference. Onboard has come a long way in a short time. Comparing the onboard to the Creative and then to my Prelude, however, there's a world of difference - significant enough to make it worth the price.

Both my Xtreme Music and Prelude kills the analog playback on my Intel P43 (Gigabyte DS3 model) HD-Audio that even features DDL and very nice Vista support. Again, it ain't bad for a Home Theater but sucks for Games. You're right though, it has come a long way!

Worth the price? That depends on who or whom you ask. IMHO, it is a $139 and wasn't worth the $200 price it started at. One of my bud's would say $169 and one other said $200 but with a version of the Live type I/O drive on the front or rear. I respect but disagree with their views. But that's for another post. I got mine for $169 and still feel I, just me paid at least $30 too much. Do you think a $100 motherboard has fewer quality parts?

[SoulsCollective]

What? I'm saying that the sound-quality difference on the Prelude over onboard, as opposed to the sound quality difference on the XtremeGamer over onboard, makes the Prelude worth buying. The difference is simply too small from the onboard to the Gamer on my motherboard. Of course this is going to be subjective, and of course it's going to depend on how good your onboard is in the first place.

[Donnie27]

What? I'm saying that the sound-quality difference on the Prelude over onboard, as opposed to the sound quality difference on the XtremeGamer over onboard, makes the Prelude worth buying. The difference is simply too small from the onboard to the Gamer on my motherboard. Of course this is going to be subjective, and of course it's going to depend on how good your onboard is in the first place.


Mine wasn't subject if Games are involved. Again, the P43 I have has great Music Playback. It even support DD Live 5.1, Digital in and out and etc..... What it sucks at is Games. Games on it sound just like any CMedia or Realtech sound systems. I wasn't talking about small and subjective differences on Music Playback. But even the Xtreme Music sounds better via Analog out for music playback. I don't think the Prelude sounds that much better. The difference between how much better the the Xtreme Gamer is more pronounced than the my motherboard. It is larger than the difference between how much better the Prelude is over the Xtreme Music.

Honestly, I have to change op-amps to make the Prelude sound better than the Xonar D2X:D

[RealTelstar]

I'd like to chime in.
After installing Jriver player and a few typical vista updates my x-fi started to crackle, esp after pausing music and randomly sound goes off.
I'm uninstalling drivers, jriver (asio volume control didnt work anyway :( ) and i'm trying to put auzen drivers.

Will update in a few minutes

[M31]

I'd like to chime in.
After installing Jriver player and a few typical vista updates my x-fi started to crackle, esp after pausing music and randomly sound goes off.
I'm uninstalling drivers, jriver (asio volume control didnt work anyway :( ) and i'm trying to put auzen drivers.

Will update in a few minutes

And results were?

[lowfat]

I'd like to chime in.
After installing Jriver player and a few typical vista updates my x-fi started to crackle, esp after pausing music and randomly sound goes off.
I'm uninstalling drivers, jriver (asio volume control didnt work anyway :( ) and i'm trying to put auzen drivers.

Will update in a few minutes
same issues but happens with PowerDVD 7. If i pause it, starts to sound like crap after i resume :mad:

[Donnie27]

same issues but happens with PowerDVD 7. If i pause it, starts to sound like crap after i resume :mad:

How much or how many USB devices do you have connected? Folks have corrected problems by removing Web Cams, Thumb Drives, not running Folding apps in the back ground and etc.. Most of the time SCP is caused by PCI bus traffic. Not bandwidth but interrupt polling and etc.

[Stumbo]

Do you use just headphones? If so, I would recommend one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ZERO-24-192-DAC-DA-CONVERTOR-HEAD-AMP-Upgrade-Version_W0QQitemZ120322311312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPC A_Speakers?hash=item120322311312&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

If you used your digital out to the DAC, it would completely blow away a Prelude. Just a though before you drop 200 bucks on a sound card for a minimum improvement.

[ROBSCIX]

Do you use just headphones? If so, I would recommend one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ZERO-24-192-DAC-DA-CONVERTOR-HEAD-AMP-Upgrade-Version_W0QQitemZ120322311312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPC A_Speakers?hash=item120322311312&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

If you used your digital out to the DAC, it would completely blow away a Prelude. Just a though before you drop 200 bucks on a sound card for a minimum improvement.

I think you need to re-read those specifications again. This device will not blow away a Prelude and doesn't have very good measurements at all for a few things including SNR. Also, many companies use Spec values for publicity but when you measure the card/device yourself they are nowhere near what they listed. The fact that it has a 627 installed is good but many have those installed in the Preludes which further increase sound quality. USB DAC's also are rather feature-less for everyday use.
To each their own though.

[Stumbo]

IMHO (and the opinion of the experts)SNR is a silly number used to sell products, nothing more. Once you go over about 110db, you see diminishing returns.

Ive owned three, one for my gf, and a modified one that I use up to 9 hours a day (at work:P), and my first one that was stolen (again, at work :(). and I can assure you, the sound quality, stage and power is far superior to the modified prelude it replaced. Prelude cannot touch the Zero, ever.

This is not an external soundcard, its an excellent, high quality Digital to analog converter, with a great quality built in headphone amplifier. His current Xgamer has all the features he will ever need, however the built in DAC and amplifier(or lack there of) is very subpar.

I mentioned the Zero just because its a great upgrade at a great price for somebody who uses headphones. Its also an affordable and fun step into the audiophile world, and it's also easy to mod :P.

Hear is a little review, the zero has a huge following among headphone audiophiles
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458/

[ROBSCIX]

Yes, I know about the Zero DAC. I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding and I thought there was another device being recommended. Yes, The Zero DAC is great device sounds very good.

BTW, SNR isn't a silly number especially if you know about audio electronics, it is very relevent but you are correct in that many times companies "fudge" these numbers trying to make the device
Look better then it is.

[Stumbo]

Yes, I know about the Zero DAC. I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding and I thought there was another device being recommended. Yes, The Zero DAC is great device sounds very good.

BTW, SNR isn't a silly number especially if you know about audio electronics, it is very relevent but you are correct in that many times companies "fudge" these numbers trying to make the device
Look better then it is.

I though maybe you were thinking I was talking about that little freebie USB>Optical deal, yeah its a pos.

Snr is important, don't get me wrong. I read about a study where they had some of the top audiophiles listen to a source with SNR from 70db up to 145db, the best ears could only hear a difference up to 105dbs, after that they couldn't detect it.

I just though i would mention the Zero, its a nice dac, and I think it would give him what he wants because he uses headphones.

[ROBSCIX]

Measurments such as Dynamic range SNR, THD%, IMD etc... are all measurments experts use the gauge the quality of audio gear. The persons ears are also a good judge but for imperical measurments all those numbers are valid and trying to discount one is not very good. You have to watch studies and tests as other studies will tell you different. Personally I would rather have a device with the best measurments I can get.
With that being said, not all devices that sound good will measure really good and vice versa. Until a better system is invented though audio designers build devices using these specifications to decide what components they will use so they have merit when you know what you are reading as many don't, they are just numbers and they have no idea how they relate. I am testing a soundcard with a 124dB SNR right now and it is one of the best cards or devices I have heard to date. There is more to a card then just SNR though...

[Miwo]

I went from Prelude to Omega Claro (original) and am using the dual digital outs on the card....1 for multichannel straight to my Denon, and the other into my Zero DAC. As far as comparisons go, both are very good but I prefer the Zero DACs sound. I'm using the 627 on it as well as the RCA output cap removal mod. For cables, I've been using homemade DIY Mogami 2534 based interconnects which i also used on the Prelude. The Zero doesnt have better measurements than the Prelude, but I still enjoy it more. Having its own headphone amp and being able to act as a Preamp or line level source is a bonus. I would be scared to death using the Prelude as a preamp to a dedicated power amp (if i ever decide to do so in the future) with those hot outputs and going strictly by control panel hehe :)

I dunno, but I just dont think its worthwhile to keep buying soundcards anymore everytime one of these XTXTX HD edition cards come out. But hey, thats the way it goes in the audio game, pay lots for minimal gains. I probably won't upgrade DAC again until I get better speakers.... which i might not even do anytime soon since the KEFs im using sound fantastic as nearfield speaker

[Stumbo]

I went from Prelude to Omega Claro (original) and am using the dual digital outs on the card....1 for multichannel straight to my Denon, and the other into my Zero DAC. As far as comparisons go, both are very good but I prefer the Zero DACs sound. I'm using the 627 on it as well as the RCA output cap removal mod. For cables, I've been using homemade DIY Mogami 2534 based interconnects which i also used on the Prelude. The Zero doesnt have better measurements than the Prelude, but I still enjoy it more. Having its own headphone amp and being able to act as a Preamp or line level source is a bonus. I would be scared to death using the Prelude as a preamp to a dedicated power amp (if i ever decide to do so in the future) with those hot outputs and going strictly by control panel hehe :)

I dunno, but I just dont think its worthwhile to keep buying soundcards anymore everytime one of these XTXTX HD edition cards come out. But hey, thats the way it goes in the audio game, pay lots for minimal gains. I probably won't upgrade DAC again until I get better speakers.... which i might not even do anytime soon since the KEFs im using sound fantastic as nearfield speaker

That is kind of the way I feel about it, better and better soundcards keep coming out, but i feel like they just cannot match a digital signal to a Zero or similar DAC.

I recently installed a HDAM Moon OP in my zero, I was not expecting much of an improvement from the 627, but it was an awesome upgrade, if you have some money to burn Miwo. Complicated sound passages that sounded messy an distorted with the 627 now sound effortless and doesn't lose that dynamic that I use to notice.

Im sure you are familiar with it, but here is a linky: http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm

[ROBSCIX]

The soudncard market is evloving and many new cards will surpass any DAC's of the same price or higher. Look as the new HDAV 1.3 in analog mode, not to mention the New Xonar Essence....

I have been looking at those modules they look great. I think I might get the line up and see what they have to offer. I would like to try them in one of the newer higher end soudcards.

Perosnally, I always found the OPA637 a better sounding opamp then the 627 much brighter and better high end extesions but you can only use them in ciruict with gains of greater then 5 IIRC.
Wow, when I look through my opamps collection I have collected quite a few now it gets to be a bit of a addiction. I am also trying out some newer modules that I selected from spec sheets and added to adapters.