4850 CF Vs 4870 1GB Vs 260 GTX core 216

[grasskicker509]

i am looking to upgrade my aging 7900GT, and as you all know, there is a multitude of upgrade options that can be had for $300...so whats the better buy, a 4850 CF or single 4870 1GB or 260 gtx 216 (what a great name...)? I know there are issues with CF, like drivers, power requirements, oh yeah i still want to use my old Abit with 965 chipset, (will that be a bottleneck if i use CF?)...and i will be gaming on a 22" sammy lcd...thanks for your inputs

[largon]

HD4870 1GB would be my choice, 1680x1050 with filterings should benefit from the extra RAM.
Crossfire isn't worth it for other than benchmarks.

And GTX 260 is just "boring".
:D

[Nasgul]

I'd take the GeForce GTX 260 Core 216, which I may end up getting for Xmas myself.

Gaming on a 22" monitor is not going to be hard for this card to do. Hell, I use a 24" (1920x1200) and my GTX 9800 works perfectly.

And CF on a P965? Don't even bother with the thought, just get ONE single powerful card, the GTX 260 C_216 that is, I'll get one, definitely.

[grasskicker509]

HD4870 1GB would be my choice, 1680x1050 with filterings should benefit from the extra RAM.
Crossfire isn't worth it for other than benchmarks.

And GTX 260 is just "boring".
:D

why is it boring?

[zanzabar]

the normal 260 clocks higher than the new one, but i would go 4850x2 when its out soon

[largon]

why is it boring?G200s seem to OC quite lazily and shoving more voltage in it doesn't help either.
That's my definition of boring GPU.
:D

[Carfax]

G200s seem to OC quite lazily and shoving more voltage in it doesn't help either.
That's my definition of boring GPU.
:D

What do you base this on?

I was in the same predicament as the original poster about two weeks ago, and I ended up getting the GTX 260 216 SP edition, and it overclocked from stock to 705 on the core, which is well over 100mhz, all on stock cooling.

This card is basically a GTX 280 killer more than a HD 4870 killer, as it practically equals the GTX 280 once overclocked for a much lower price.

Another Nvidia advantage is that they seem to be able to squeeze more performance from their cards through driver optimizations than ATI.

The 4800 series theoretically has more computing power than the G200 cards, but the G200 cards come closer to their potential than the 4800 series, due to better drivers.

[jaredpace]

Well, considering a 260 core 216 and 4870 1GB aren't faster than a GTX280 1GB, but 4850 CF is, 4850 CF!!

:p:

[grasskicker509]

looking at your graphs, it really sucks that the 280 gtx cant beat 8800gt SLI in Crysis, i mean 8800gt are last gen...if the 280 gtx cant beat 2 older cards how well is the 260 core 216 gonna do? if i had a newer mobo, i would really like to try 4850 CF, for the price it seems like its hard to beat...anybody else has willing to share their thoughts?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/1gb4870_092408101853/17392.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/1gb4870_092408101853/17393.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/1gb4870_092408101853/17393.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/1gb4870_092408101853/17393.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/1gb4870_092408101853/17393.png


Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder which one you should get......

[Carfax]

looking at your graphs, it really sucks that the 280 gtx cant beat 8800gt SLI in Crysis, i mean 8800gt are last gen...if the 280 gtx cant beat 2 older cards how well is the 260 core 216 gonna do? if i had a newer mobo, i would really like to try 4850 CF, for the price it seems like its hard to beat...anybody else has willing to share their thoughts?

Not everyone wants a CF or SLI setup, due to the inherent drawbacks associated with multi gpu set ups, ie micro stuttering, compatability issues with games etc..

Personally, I prefer a fast stand alone card, overclocked to the max :up:

[Carfax]

Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder which one you should get......

It would be interesting to see how the benchmarks would differ with the most recent drivers.

The latest drivers from Nvidia noticeably boost performance.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

those are equal era drivers, 8.10 boost performance as well, wouldnt really be that useful

[jaredpace]

Snipedogg, do you agree with this, or are you happy with your Crossfire rig vs. a single card?


HD4870 1GB would be my choice
Crossfire isn't worth it for other than benchmarks.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Snipedogg, do you agree with this, or are you happy with your Crossfire rig vs. a single card?

I think crossfire is great if you know what your doing. If your dumb and dont know how to install drivers then its no good :p:

Seriously though I am extremely pleased with my crossfire setup, very fast, very powerful. i beat the crap out of a single GTX280 and I'm sure that my voltmodded cards beat gtx260 core 216 SLI


personally I wish I had 4870 1gb CF seeing as I use 1920x1200.

[Carfax]

What about micro stuttering? Ever encountered any of that on your CF rig?

Thats made me apprehensive about building a multi gpu setup, despite the clear performance benefits.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

No micro stuttering with current drivers, especially on 4870 architechture. It's quickly becoming a thing of the past.

[sf rich]

Back to grasskicker, another vote here for the 4870. Best price/perf in that price range.

And -- I like others prefer one powerful card vs CF. I think CF really doesn't start strutting its stuff til beyond 1900x1280. But get the 4870 now and you can always CF it later if it turns out you need it for some reason (and of course after you get a new Mobo/CPU/etc.).

[Nazu]

HD4870 1GB. There's not that big difference between GTX260 SP216 and HD4870 1GB but when there is in some game (GRID for instance) it's pretty good.

[Nazu]

Like some people already mentioned, the performance with P965 or P35 mobos in CF is less stellar cos of the 8x&8x pcie configuration. You will need a X38/X48 mobo to take a full advantage of the Crossfire.

[Carfax]

HD4870 1GB. There's not that big difference between GTX260 SP216 and HD4870 1GB but when there is in some game (GRID for instance) it's pretty good.

There are games where Nvidia has a massive lead over ATI as well..

Honestly, you can't go wrong with both cards. Like I said earlier, the reasons why I chose the GTX 260 over the HD 4870 1GB are due to:

1) Better overclocking. You can squeeze more out of the GTX 260 than the HD 4870 with stock cooling.

2) Drivers. Nvidia always seems to be able to pull more performance out of driver optimizations than ATI. This goes back to the old "detonator" days.

The latest Nvidia drivers feature notable performance increases in quite a few games, suggesting there's still a lot of performance to be gleaned from the G200 series.


Added support for 2-way and 3-way Nvidia SLI technology with GeForce GTX 200-series GPUs on Intel D5400XS motherboards
Support for single GPU and Nvidia SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and OpenGL, including 3-way and Quad SLI technology
CUDA support
Support for the Folding@home distributing computing application.
Numerous 3D application compatibility fixes
Several 3D application performance improvements. For example (improvements measured with 178.13 versus 175.19):
Single GPU increases up to 11% in 3DMark Vantage (performance preset)
Single GPU increases up to 11% in Assassin's Creed DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Bioshock DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Call of Duty 4
Single GPU increases up to 8% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 7% in Bioshock DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 12% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in World in Conflict DX10

Now I'm waiting on the 180 drivers, which are reputedly the "Big Bang." :up:

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

those percentiles probably only apply to less than 50% of systems, most wont see the benefit, don't be mislead by nvidia marketing BS like so many in the past and present.

I had all Nvidia all the time through the 7950GX2, then I realized they were screwing me with poor driver support. Although people complain about ATI drivers, the ones who have used both companies drivers can attest that ATI drivers are indeed better

[Nazu]

My last Ati card was an X1950 Pro and at that time the drivers were equal to to nVidia ones. Tho I have no experience on the current situation...

[Carfax]

I've been using Nvidia for years and years, and I've had hardly any driver issues, which is why I was so reluctant to switch over to ATI.

Before I got my GTX 260 216 core, I was using an overclocked 9800 GTX. I downloaded the new drivers hoping to find that there were indeed performance improvements, and there was!

Assassin's Creed felt noticeably smoother, and the CoD4 demo (I don't have the retail game yet) performance increased by 5 fps. I play both games at 1920x1200 maxed settings with 2AA and 8AF.

This was on a 9800 GTX!

Ofcourse, now that I have a GTX 260, I can really up the AA and still get smooth frames, but it just goes to show, that Nvidia's driver optimizations aren't just smoke and mirrors if they could still get some performance out of 2 year old technology.

[soundood]

ok heres the deal, i was asking the exact same question only yesterday, and had spent all week looking at 'various' solutions.

i am an Nvidia fanboy, but also an AMD fanboy with my main rig in sig, so do i get the HD4870 1 gig? or the GT260-216 core?

i was humming and totaly undecided for a week or two, the HD 4870 1 gig is a cracking card period, and i was 80% for that card all week.

benchmark after benchmark, i was on the 4870, then i was flirting with the GT260-216 core, as it is no longer in debate with the 4870 standard edition, but more like chomping the heels of the GT280, if not better in some benches.

then i got the rational head on again, and started thinking carefully about what i want it for?

i game at 1440 x 900, therefore 1 gig Vram is pretty redundant,

i play crysis wars, we all know how Nvidia cards are highly optimized for crysis

price? i look at the price fall over the last few weeks with nvidia, and also the silent introduction of the 216 core model.

what i am trying to say here is that it depends on what you want it for, its ok saying 2 x 4870's in crossfire fly like the wind in 3dmark06, but if you play crysis, the second card is redundant.

my decision was to go with the BFG GT260 OcX Maxcore (216 core model), and let me tell you i am not disapointed.

you can look at all the benches you want, with my custom autoexec.cfg, i am getting 40 fps min, all the way (added a little OC of my own), and most time i sit at 60 fps steady (vsynch enabled)

I CANNOT SAY ENOUGH ABOUT THIS CARD, IT IS FANTASTIC :up:

but again if i played a game that scaled well in crossfire, i would have got the HD4870 1 gig in a heartbeat, looking to get another before xmas.

dont go with the masses because the masses have it? go with what you need.

[Nasgul]

I had all Nvidia all the time through the 7950GX2, then I realized they were screwing me with poor driver support. Although people complain about ATI drivers, the ones who have used both companies drivers can attest that ATI drivers are indeed better

:ROTF:


ATI drivers better? What kind of joke is that? We all know (at least 99.99% of those that read the video card section) that when it comes to drivers? amd/ati has the worst.....waiting for hot fixes, looking out for new beta drivers, a version of ccc that's compatible with the new cards....etc., etc., etc., etc......

That statement is just like when warboy gets real upset about everybody bashing nFarce chipsets, yet everyone knows how horrible they are but then? There's that special breed that refuses to recognize how poor of a quality a product is.............people still buy Hyundai you know. :yepp:


BTW, I also game with a 1920x1200 res and the 9800GTX is capable of handling it just mighty fine. Posting 2560x1600 res benchmarks is a waste of time, 'cause at most? 99% here plays on a 22" monitor,

[mj12]

I agree with soundood, i had the same problem but it all depends on your circumstances i.e the games you play, monitor etc.

For me i will most likely not be gaming above 1440x900 and mostly at 1280x1024 so in my case a single 4850 will do the job well and it its the case that i upgrade my display then 4850 CF it is. but keep in mind you would need an x48/x38 chipset to get the full bandwidth which you dont even notice currently.

This Review Helped A Lot.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU1OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

:ROTF:


ATI drivers better? What kind of joke is that? We all know (at least 99.99% of those that read the video card section) that when it comes to drivers? amd/ati has the worst.....waiting for hot fixes, looking out for new beta drivers, a version of ccc that's compatible with the new cards....etc., etc., etc., etc......

That statement is just like when warboy gets real upset about everybody bashing nFarce chipsets, yet everyone knows how horrible they are but then? There's that special breed that refuses to recognize how poor of a quality a product is.............people still buy Hyundai you know. :yepp:


BTW, I also game with a 1920x1200 res and the 9800GTX is capable of handling it just mighty fine. Posting 2560x1600 res benchmarks is a waste of time, 'cause at most? 99% here plays on a 22" monitor,


I am in no way a fanboy on the scale of warboy or any others. I use Nvidia cards in some of my friends rigs (some of them insist on it ;)) and ATI cards in others. I am an objective consumer of high end computer components.

That said you ONLY use Nvidia and I doubt you have even used ATI and Nvidia in the current generation. Don't call me out like you know me.


ATI drivers are better than Nvidia drivers. Not saying that nvidia drivers haven't gotten better since the atrocious drivers of the 7900 era.

Just because you read the complaints and issues of users who don't reallly know what their doing (ie. don't properly install drivers)

[Junos]

Pick the one that runs your fav games better. It's that simple..

[grasskicker509]

thanks for all your inputs, 300 bux goes a long ways these days thanks to HD4800 series...guess I have lots to think about, do you guys think we will see a price drop on current vga cards when the 4850X2 comes out?

[Dave_Sz]

:ROTF:


ATI drivers better? What kind of joke is that? We all know (at least 99.99% of those that read the video card section) that when it comes to drivers? amd/ati has the worst.....waiting for hot fixes, looking out for new beta drivers, a version of ccc that's compatible with the new cards....etc., etc., etc., etc......

That statement is just like when warboy gets real upset about everybody bashing nFarce chipsets, yet everyone knows how horrible they are but then? There's that special breed that refuses to recognize how poor of a quality a product is.............people still buy Hyundai you know. :yepp:


BTW, I also game with a 1920x1200 res and the 9800GTX is capable of handling it just mighty fine. Posting 2560x1600 res benchmarks is a waste of time, 'cause at most? 99% here plays on a 22" monitor,

there's a reason that nvidia seems to release new, "better", drivers every other week...

[tajoh111]

those percentiles probably only apply to less than 50% of systems, most wont see the benefit, don't be mislead by nvidia marketing BS like so many in the past and present.

I had all Nvidia all the time through the 7950GX2, then I realized they were screwing me with poor driver support. Although people complain about ATI drivers, the ones who have used both companies drivers can attest that ATI drivers are indeed better

The 7950gx2 was and still is a beta card. It was NV first move to a double chip on a single card solution. If that's your basis for NV driver situation, you need to update your experience.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I have used 200's, 8800's, all cards in the 7900 series, 7800 series. I have experience with them all, and I repeat, Nvidia drivers are not as good as ATI drivers. many more Nvidia drivers have big issues than ATI. The reason Nvidia releases so many drivers is because there are so many bugs, they are lazy coders and they don't check their work very well at all!

[dogbert_2001]

I am also interested in this question, except I game at 2560x1600 and I have a 975X board. If you can give me a recommendation, you can post it here or in my other thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3332937). I'd also like to complicate it further by suggesting two 3870 X2's in CF, which can be had for about the same price.



BTW, I also game with a 1920x1200 res and the 9800GTX is capable of handling it just mighty fine. Posting 2560x1600 res benchmarks is a waste of time, 'cause at most? 99% here plays on a 22" monitor,

The 2560x1600 benchmarks are helpful to me. I also think lower resolutions aren't as helpful because cards these days demolish them. (Who cares that one card runs at 100fps and another runs at 200fps when all you need is 60fps?) I wish there were more benchmarks done at 2560x1600; unfortunately there aren't many.

[Miss Banana]

I think in many reviews that also included a 4850 CF, the conclusion was that the 4850 CF was the best bang for the buck. Of course this was before nvidia launched their pimped 260. I think recent reviews, comparing the latest cards with the latest drivers should give you a good idea.

[B.E.E.F.]

Don't bother with P965 crossfire on the HD48xx series. It will bottleneck.

If you want the best value for your money go for the HD470 1GB.

However, this depends on where you are.
Some places, prices between ATi and nVidia cards can vary alot. If you can get the GTX 260,216 cheaper by about 10% than the HD4870 1GB it would be a good buy.

[B.E.E.F.]

:ROTF:
ATI drivers better? What kind of joke is that? We all know (at least 99.99% of those that read the video card section) that when it comes to drivers? amd/ati has the worst.....waiting for hot fixes, looking out for new beta drivers, a version of ccc that's compatible with the new cards....etc., etc., etc., etc......


2007 Calendar Year Data.


http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/03/vistacrash-1.jpg

[Nasgul]

2007 Calendar Year Data.I believe you have not realized this but.........we're in 2008, just an FYI. Time to adjust that calendar.

And the...of course more people owned nVidia based video cards back then.

[B.E.E.F.]

I believe you have not realized this but.........we're in 2008, just an FYI. Time to adjust that calendar.

And the...of course more people owned nVidia based video cards back then.

I find it hard to believe the ratio of active nVidia : ATi cards running Vista was 3:1 in 2007.

nVidia based cards, running nVidia drivers caused more than their share of crashes compared to ATi.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I find it hard to believe the ratio of active nVidia : ATi cards running Vista was 3:1 in 2007.

nVidia based cards, running nVidia drivers caused more than their share of crashes compared to ATi.

QFT - Nasgul, we all know what you would do if you ever met Jen-Hsun Huang ;)


you go around recommending to anyone who has a question about what to get that they should get what you HAVE. This is not the way to go most of the time because there are much better options. your hardware is not the supreme best computer ever made.

And if your going to retort with some "well you think the same thing" comment, your wrong, there are a lot of things I would change about my setup if I had the money and there are different parts I recommend for different user situations.

[Nasgul]

But FF to 2008, ATI is back where they used to be.........

Hence, search in the video card section thoroughly and you'll see for yourself. I mean, it's not like you can't see it, it's all over the section.

I'd post the links of the two latest victims but they'd always come to this thread and start to take it so personal because I put them as an example......**cough***TV***cough***casual gaming***cough**..........

But yeah, take a good look at who is back on top in 2008. I'll give you a clue, it's not nVidia. :up:

[jaredpace]

no matter how you slice it, 4850 CF is the fastest for under 300.

But like was said 5 times here now. don't put it on any motherboard except for an x38 or x48 chipset.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

But FF to 2008, ATI is back where they used to be.........

Hence, search in the video card section thoroughly and you'll see for yourself. I mean, it's not like you can't see it, it's all over the section.

I'd post the links of the two latest victims but they'd always come to this thread and start to take it so personal because I put them as an example......**cough***TV***cough***casual gaming***cough**..........

But yeah, take a good look at who is back on top in 2008. I'll give you a clue, it's not nVidia. :up:

no, they aren't, you don't use ATI hardware, so how would you know.


as I've said before people don't post when something goes right, only when there's a problem. people with ATI issues usually come here while people with nvidia issues go to Nvidia forums. Our video card section is not an accurate representation

I put a poll in the video card section that may help use with our debate ;)

[SirKronan]

no matter how you slice it, 4850 CF is the fastest for under 300.

But like was said 5 times here now. don't put it on any motherboard except for an x38 or x48 chipset.

P45 is still an option for two 4850's in crossfire. It doesn't bottleneck as badly as the older P35, and performance is equal or darn close in most games to what X48/38 provides.



Absolutely correct about the 4850 CF being best bang for your buck. This setup kills anything that's been available for the price for sometime now.

[STEvil]

CCC for ATi is a hunk of junk, but I do think ATi's drivers are overall better.

The latest sets of drivers for nVidia wont even work with my 8800GTS and break PhysX with my 8600GT...

[Dragy2k]

although i have a 4870 and bit of ati fanboi i am kinda regretting buying my 4870 due to the "no signal" im having along side many others with my 22" samsung monitor....the only issue im having tbh.....but its so annoying i wish i bought a 260 now and would be gaming aslong as i wished instead of maybe an hour or 2 then ...bang "no signal".
if any one has any links to a possible fix i.e corrupt NET .2 or dvi to vga swap out....id happily try them and report back...then maybe just maybe recommend the 4870...being on my second card too kinda stings too.
im aware all cards in certain systems have there issues so do a bit of reading before jumping in....GL.

[grasskicker509]

P45 is still an option for two 4850's in crossfire. It doesn't bottleneck as badly as the older P35, and performance is equal or darn close in most games to what X48/38 provides.



Absolutely correct about the 4850 CF being best bang for your buck. This setup kills anything that's been available for the price for sometime now.

the price makes this upgrade so tempting...and i just found this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136046R
which im really tempted to pick up, eventhough its open box...i know that the mobo probally wont come with any of the cables, which i dont really need, im just wondering if it will come with the NB cooler, and soundcard...now if only i could afford me one of them nice E8400 E0