Nvidia problems, the sharks are circling

[paulhamm]

It appears that the sharks are smelling blood. A class action lawsuit has been filed against Nvidia. Having to do with GPU failures, big surprise there.


http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/09/10/nvidia_chip_defect_lawsuit/
The suit, brought against Nvidia by New York law firm Shalov, Stone, Bonner & Rocco in the US District Court for the Northern District of California, seeks class action status against Nvidia and unspecified damages.

[Shintai]

Vultures seeking easy money via a flawed legalsystem again?

[Stanley Pain]

Vultures seeking easy money via a flawed legalsystem again?


Say it ain't so :eek:

[Bellisimo]

Vultures seeking easy money via a flawed legalsystem again?

if this is because of the bad material on all Nvidia gpu's they are right

[GAR]

Vultures seeking easy money via a flawed legalsystem again?

seriously, these people are stupid, they sue for anything, pathetic morons. :down:

[ragzarok]

I dunno, I was really hating Nvidia for a while, but this makes me feel bad for them. Then I considered that new 260GTX and their CEO...

[chew*]

seriously, these people are stupid, they sue for anything, pathetic morons. :down:

No nvidia is stupid if this is true and apparently they think everyone else is stupid knowingly selling them defective crap

"Nvidia’s CEO Jen-Hsun Huang and CFO Marvin Burkett are accused of concealing the defect for eight months, even though – according to the allegations (pdf) – they knew of "these unprecedented failure rates, as well as their ‘root causes’” as early as November 2007.

Dell and Hewlett-Packard, among other computer vendors, released hardware BIOS updates to provide a “quick fix” for the chip problem some eight months before Nvidia told investors about the serious defect."

[Philly_Boy]

This is just stupid people trying to get a little off a company that will pay out rather than have their name drug thru the mud.....

Sheesh, sometimes I really hate this country and the litigenous society that lives here....

[villa1n]

This is just stupid people trying to get a little off a company that will pay out rather than have their name drug thru the mud.....

Sheesh, sometimes I really hate this country and the litigenous society that lives here....

Well i mean there is some creedence to the claim, a friend in the graphic design biz, has warrantied two macbook pro's for his company due to the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT cards in the pulling epic fails, and not booting, temps only hit 70C a couple times. not good when you depend on your laptop for work :/

[adamsleath]

litigious.

of the same ilk as the notorious 1980's Australian law firm "Liar and Deshonko" :ROTF:

(that's pronounced 'lee-ahr' by the way:))

[Shintai]

if this is because of the bad material on all Nvidia gpu's they are right

Wrong. nVidia already made sure there is replacements and RMAs. Its simply trying to money milk from a flawed legal system.

[rogueagent6]

I daresay most of you sound like a bunch of nvidia fanboys. Nvidia was caught pawning off a junk chip as quality hardware, plain and simple.

I purchased one of those XPS M1530s earlier this year with a 8600M video card, and I regularly saw temps in the 70s, and that was playing Dawn of War. A game I'd hardly call taxing by today's standards, and certainly not taxing enough to warrant temperatures above 70 degrees celsius. Thankfully Dell is refunding my money for that POS.

I seriously hope they get slammed on this case.

[ahmad]

No nvidia is stupid if this is true and apparently they think everyone else is stupid knowingly selling them defective crap

"Nvidia’s CEO Jen-Hsun Huang and CFO Marvin Burkett are accused of concealing the defect for eight months, even though – according to the allegations (pdf) – they knew of "these unprecedented failure rates, as well as their ‘root causes’” as early as November 2007.

Dell and Hewlett-Packard, among other computer vendors, released hardware BIOS updates to provide a “quick fix” for the chip problem some eight months before Nvidia told investors about the serious defect."

Well I don't blame them... as long as no one finds out right?

I guess people found out... and they have a right to demand something.

[3NZ0]

I daresay most of you sound like a bunch of nvidia fanboys. Nvidia was caught pawning off a junk chip as quality hardware, plain and simple.

I purchased one of those XPS M1530s earlier this year with a 8600M video card, and I regularly saw temps in the 70s, and that was playing Dawn of War. A game I'd hardly call taxing by today's standards, and certainly not taxing enough to warrant temperatures above 70 degrees celsius. Thankfully Dell is refunding my money for that POS.

I seriously hope they get slammed on this case.That was becuase the gpu, cpu + n/b is cooled by the same single heatpipe. The 1530 is hardly a 'pos'.

My 1730 sees both gpu's idle from 50-70c and go up to 80c at load, doesn't make that a 'pos'

[naokaji]

if there really would be a widespread material problem with nvidia cards woudnt that affect amd cards then as well since both are made at tsmc and due to that most likely also made of the same material from the same source?

anyway, whats the point in sueing nvidia for failing cards? if it does fail at stock clocks and stock cooling just rma it.

[Nosfer@tu]

Sue for a mistake.

Just DEMAND a new card or money back or what ever.

[ThugsRook]

My 1730 sees both gpu's idle from 50-70c and go up to 80c at load, doesn't make that a 'pos'
no, that makes it a space heater :ROTF:

[Cybercat]

I daresay most of you sound like a bunch of nvidia fanboys. Nvidia was caught pawning off a junk chip as quality hardware, plain and simple. No, it's not that simple. This "junk" as you call it has a far greater chance of running just fine for the majority of people that bought it than crapping out. So most people got what they paid for.

[villa1n]

if there really would be a widespread material problem with nvidia cards woudnt that affect amd cards then as well since both are made at tsmc and due to that most likely also made of the same material from the same source?


nope.
"As outlined in one of our previous articles (which Nvidia did not especially like, but did not request any retraction whatsoever either), the main problem of the problem is buried in a high-lead solder bump that suffers from fatigue cracking under extreme heat. Transitioning to a different solder bump material requires substantial engineering effort, testing and qualification and that may have been the case here.

We are aware that G84, 86, 92 and 94 GPUs used this high-lead bump and are potentially exposed to the problem and have recently been transitioned to a new eutectic solder bump.

The fact of the simple presence of a high-lead solder bump does not mean that there will be chip failures. Failures apparently only happen in notebooks where these solder bumps are exposed to much more stress. Only Nvidia knows what the true failure rates are, but we were assured that the recently announced $196 million charge will be sufficient, which would mean that about 6-8% of Nvidia’s 15 million-or-so notebook GPUs potentially carrying the problem are actually affected. That is, of course, if not more notebook manufacturers come along complaining about failure rates.
source (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39263/118/)

Amd has been using a eutectic solder bump. So the problem doesnt cross over. Moreover this is not about consumers in the lawsuit, its about shareholders being pissed that a CEO may have kept this under wraps for about 8 months and the stock losing 3billion in market Cap. Since its a publicly trading company, misleading shareholders is a no no. And this problem could be bigger than just me or you rma'ing our laptops, enterprise clients, who buy 1000s of laptops at a time, that have nvidia cards, can't afford the tech support , nor will they put up with unneeded overhead...so they will come back for cash.

[swami]

oh dear, from the sounds of things nVidia are gonna need a bigger boat....:yepp:

[adamsleath]

misleading shareholders is a no no
yep, i thought that was the issue, so when will the judge make a ruling? :hehe:

better get a laawyer son, better get a real good one.

the one thing judges hate is lies.

[deathman20]

I daresay most of you sound like a bunch of nvidia fanboys. Nvidia was caught pawning off a junk chip as quality hardware, plain and simple.

I purchased one of those XPS M1530s earlier this year with a 8600M video card, and I regularly saw temps in the 70s, and that was playing Dawn of War. A game I'd hardly call taxing by today's standards, and certainly not taxing enough to warrant temperatures above 70 degrees celsius. Thankfully Dell is refunding my money for that POS.

I seriously hope they get slammed on this case.

What so if the CPU hits 70C you'll sue them too? Not defending nVidia for the coverup or anything of sorts but they are publicly fixing it now, might be too late to save grace for them doing it but thats not the point.

Its a laptop. They will get warm under load. Game might not be "taxing" but doesn't mean it doesn't try getting the most out of the GPU.

Heck im sure the laptop GPU's go under the same standards the desktop ones do since desktop ones can hit 90C in a large case, heck ATI;s are rated to go to 110 or 120C. Though I wouldn't even think of putting it under that much heat but 80-90C for a GPU anymore these days is common for highend, and surely for anyone thats shoved into a space no bigger than a few inches.

[3NZ0]

no, that makes it a space heater :ROTF:I'm in tears with laughter. No really. :rolleyes:

[Zytek_Fan]

Of course if the lawsuit wins, the lawyer is going to take 80% of it :down:

In the US, you don't need a job. You just need to sue anyone and everyone :rofl:

[initialised]

I test a lot of systems at work and so far I have not had to replace any graphics cards based on R770 (one 4870x2 but the 8.52.6 driver solved it) but the RMA pile of GTX280, 260, 8800GTS/GT, 9800GT/GTX/GTX+ and 9600 GT cards is steadily growing. This problem is real, I see it on a daily basis.

[hurleybird]

This is why corporations always talk about potential pitfalls when they give forward looking statements. For example, they will say stuff like "We might face manufacturing delays, our competitor's new product may hurt our market positions, etc". As much as I feel sorry for NVDIA and the :banana::banana::banana::banana:storm they are dealing with, it's their own darn fault that they didn't have their bases covered. Withholding important information from investors is illegal, and that's what NVDIA has done. They should have announced the problem shortly after they discovered it, waiting eight or more months to do so was negligent and cost their investors a lot of money. Assuming the allegations are true, the plaintiffs deserve to be compensated for their losses.

[villa1n]

What so if the CPU hits 70C you'll sue them too? Not defending nVidia for the coverup or anything of sorts but they are publicly fixing it now, might be too late to save grace for them doing it but thats not the point.

Its a laptop. They will get warm under load. Game might not be "taxing" but doesn't mean it doesn't try getting the most out of the GPU.

Heck im sure the laptop GPU's go under the same standards the desktop ones do since desktop ones can hit 90C in a large case, heck ATI;s are rated to go to 110 or 120C. Though I wouldn't even think of putting it under that much heat but 80-90C for a GPU anymore these days is common for highend, and surely for anyone thats shoved into a space no bigger than a few inches.

I think you missed the point. The GPU's are failing under these normal operating conditions because of the solder used. It is also the point they are not being taxed and failing, ie not running 100% stress 24/7. And they are only publicly fixing it because they were called on it, when they allegedly knew about it 8 months in advance..and that is the point! You can't withhold vital info like that from shareholders. That's boiler room antics.

[cegras]

Not only this, but nvidia is quite famous for their coil whine.

[generics_user]

what's even more ridicolous is that nvidia chips frequently crap out just because they hit 70s

my passively cooled x1900xt has been running since release @ 80-100°C and never made any signs of crapping out and dying :rolleyes:

this isn't about stupid people filing lawsuits, companies can loose alot of money by replacing/rmaing 1000s of laptops just because a manufacturer made some (silly) mistakes over several products rendering them useless for mobile applications (laptops get MUCH hotter than anything else out there)

[speedkills]

Last year, a lawsuit from Rambus on 17 patent infringements and now a stockholder lawsuit reminiscent of a mini Enron coverup, sounds like NVidia will need to bring Perry Mason into court. Personally, I have had nothing but good luck with NVidia products (both video cards and motherboards), while my driver issues with ATI have twice lead me to sell their video cards (at a loss) within a year. Inevitably and ironically, we (as consumers) will pay the price for the "justice" of protecting NVidia's investors from quality issues, for which some of us were also victim to. So who really takes the product risks? :confused:

[Cybercat]

what's even more ridicolous is that nvidia chips frequently crap out just because they hit 70sI'd say the majority of NVIDIA chips go past that, including mine which has been going strong for well over a year now. I don't think "frequently" is quite accurate.

[v_rr]

Brower Piven Encourages Investors Who Have Losses in Excess of $200,000 From Investment in NVIDIA Corp. to Inquire About the Lead Plaintiff Position in Securities Fraud Class Action Lawsuit Before the November 10, 2008 Lead Plaintiff Deadline

BALTIMORE, MD--(MARKET WIRE)--Sep 10, 2008 -- Brower Piven, A Professional Corporation announces that a class action lawsuit has been commenced in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California on behalf of purchasers of the common stock of NVIDIA Corporation ("NVIDIA" or the "Company") (NasdaqGS:NVDA - News) during the period between November 8, 2007 and July 2, 2008, inclusive (the "Class Period").

ADVERTISEMENT
No class has yet been certified in the above action. Members of the Class will be represented by the lead plaintiff and counsel chosen by the lead plaintiff. If you wish to choose counsel to represent you and the Class, you must apply to be appointed lead plaintiff no later than November 10, 2008 and be selected by the Court. The lead plaintiff will direct the litigation and participate in important decisions including whether to accept a settlement and how much of a settlement to accept for the Class in the action. The lead plaintiff will be selected from among applicants claiming the largest loss from investment in the Company during the Class Period. You may contact Brower Piven (through hoffman@browerpiven.com or 410/332-0030) to answer any questions you may have in that regard.

NVIDIA provides visual computing technologies designed to generate interactive graphics on consumer and professional computing devices in the United States and internationally. The complaint alleges that the defendants violated the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 by issuing a series of misrepresentations and omissions that concealed and failed to disclose the unusually high failure rates of NVIDIA's mobile video adapters and the impact of these defects on the Company's financial condition and results for future business prospects.

If you have suffered a net loss for all transactions in NVIDIA common stock during the Class Period, you may obtain additional information about this lawsuit and your ability to become a lead plaintiff by contacting Brower Piven at www.browerpiven.com, by email at hoffman@browerpiven.com, by calling 410-332-0030, or at Brower Piven, A Professional Corporation, The World Trade Center-Baltimore, 401 East Pratt Street, Suite 2525, Baltimore, Maryland 21202. Attorneys at Brower Piven have combined experience litigating securities and class action cases of over 40 years. If you choose to retain counsel, you may retain Brower Piven without financial obligation or cost to you, or you may retain other counsel of your choice. You need take no action at this time to be a member of the class.
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080910/0432763.html

[STEvil]

My 8800GTS has issues at around 70c... under that its fine.

Hope the 8600GT I got for my laptop isnt one of these bad cards :(

[mcbalaban]

Please be reminded that this lawsuit (and by consequence, the topic of this thread) isn't about card owners suing nVidia becuse their toys broke down, but about nVidia stockholders suing the nVidia management for loss of profit. :)

[chew*]

Here's the real kicker, nvidia sold these chips........the real losers are the companies utilyzing the chips......Its not just a simple rip the chip out replace and return to customer as its integrated on the motherboard.......it requires them to replace a whole board, which preety much means replace a whole laptop........and your not going to be mad?

[Anemone]

They had a chance long ago to come clean on this. They should be replacing the chips, including labor, not this measly cash that covers a tiny fraction of the costs. The legal system will work out their culpability. Nvidia will find out that it would have been far cheaper to come clean on this a lot earlier than now, and a lot more thoroughly than now.

Only have to look at Yahoo to see what happens when shareholders get rooked.

[STEvil]

Here's the real kicker, nvidia sold these chips........the real losers are the companies utilyzing the chips......Its not just a simple rip the chip out replace and return to customer as its integrated on the motherboard.......it requires them to replace a whole board, which preety much means replace a whole laptop........and your not going to be mad?

8600's are not integrated.

[Nasgul]

Wrong. nVidia already made sure there is replacements and RMAs. Its simply trying to money milk from a flawed legal system.

So, what does your government or people do when a company/corporation is selling defective products?

Here in the U.S., we make them pay, specially when they know that there's been a flaw in the product prior to being sold. Otherwise people would be buying crap all the time and these corporation would be releasing just Another Mediocre Device or Product at will.

[Sr7]

Uhhh.. you guys realize this is representing shareholders because of the drop in stock price right? They're complaining that investors were misled knowingly. This is not a consumer/customer service issue whatsoever.

The law firm saw an opportunity to try to rally people who lost money on the stock market in the short term (oh my god, this is possible?) and are trying to profit from it.

[insurgent]

You can sue McDonald's when you spill your coffee on your lap (it's hot.. really?) so this shouldn't surprise you :D

[guess2098]

Dell, HP, Acer, and other laptop companies, total amount they lost is like sky high. but nvidia said no it is not our problem.
most laptop GPU are build on board, if GPU is bad, whole motherboard is usless.

[TRF-Inferno]

8600's are not integrated.

Depends on manufacturer. One group that comes to mind are the Macbook Pro owners; their CPU and GPU are integrated on the mainboard, so if any of those die, the whole mainboard has to be replaced.

[Bellisimo]

What so if the CPU hits 70C you'll sue them too? Not defending nVidia for the coverup or anything of sorts but they are publicly fixing it now, might be too late to save grace for them doing it but thats not the point.

Its a laptop. They will get warm under load. Game might not be "taxing" but doesn't mean it doesn't try getting the most out of the GPU.

Heck im sure the laptop GPU's go under the same standards the desktop ones do since desktop ones can hit 90C in a large case, heck ATI;s are rated to go to 110 or 120C. Though I wouldn't even think of putting it under that much heat but 80-90C for a GPU anymore these days is common for highend, and surely for anyone thats shoved into a space no bigger than a few inches.

read the article (3 parts) on the inquirer, you will understand after that

it's not about the die itself, its about the bumping material, etc etc....

[Sr7]

Dell, HP, Acer, and other laptop companies, total amount they lost is like sky high. but nvidia said no it is not our problem.
most laptop GPU are build on board, if GPU is bad, whole motherboard is usless.

lmfao, are you kidding? Do you realize the OEMs didn't lose A CENT? NVIDIA is paying for all repairs and replacements, including both the parts and labor.

Please get your facts straight :)

[T_Flight]

Whether the suit was justified or not there will be no winners. There never is in a court of law. Everyone is the victim, but in the case of buisness suits ALL the consumers get to pay for it too.

On top of gettiong to pay higher prices we get to pay for it again in taxes. After that we get to pay for it in reeduced R&D. The money wasted on these legal payoff's or worse yet court awards costs these companies not only lost profits, but legals fees, court fees, and drives down stock costs as investor confidence spirals it's way down.

Inside the courtroom everyone is a victim too. Both sides have to put up with bueracratic red tape, the corrupt court system, lawyers dealing behind closed doors. The Judges have to listen to this stuff day in and day out and their life force gets drained from them through high blood pressure. It gridlocks the court system and backlogs it from doing nobel things that really need to be addressed.

Nothing is gained from it. I too hate this litigous society that we now have to put up with, because we all pay dearly for it. All of this could've been avoided by BOTH sides doing the right thing and working together, instead of fighting in court.

[hurleybird]

lmfao, are you kidding? Do you realize the OEMs didn't lose A CENT? NVIDIA is paying for all repairs and replacements, including both the parts and labor.

Please get your facts straight :)

He has. My dad's desktop 8600GT died, probably because he uses thermal management and has poor ventilation. Guess who payed when he sent it in?

[Skratch]

You can sue McDonald's when you spill your coffee on your lap (it's hot.. really?) so this shouldn't surprise you :D

not sure if its true,but rumor is that the coffie that was served was 220 deg and the young girl that spilt it got it down her you know what and couldnt make any babies from it.

I think I would sue also,they were serving coffie hotter than boiling water.

[Sr7]

He has. My dad's desktop 8600GT died, probably because he uses thermal management and has poor ventilation. Guess who payed when he sent it in?

Wow, what a scientific and thorough case study. It's not like before any of this came to be an issue cards ever died, and it's not like ATI cards ever died. Thanks for contributing this crucial information which clearly proves absolutely nothing...

My ATI X1950 is dead. I should sue them by your logic!

[Sr7]

This is why corporations always talk about potential pitfalls when they give forward looking statements. For example, they will say stuff like "We might face manufacturing delays, our competitor's new product may hurt our market positions, etc". As much as I feel sorry for NVDIA and the :banana::banana::banana::banana:storm they are dealing with, it's their own darn fault that they didn't have their bases covered. Withholding important information from investors is illegal, and that's what NVDIA has done. They should have announced the problem shortly after they discovered it, waiting eight or more months to do so was negligent and cost their investors a lot of money. Assuming the allegations are true, the plaintiffs deserve to be compensated for their losses.

Are you kidding? "that's what they've done"?

They file the suit yesterday and immediately they're guilty? You should be a lawyer with that kind of effectiveness!

[Sr7]

Not only this, but nvidia is quite famous for their coil whine.

All cards do this... but this is relevant here how?

[Sr7]

They had a chance long ago to come clean on this. They should be replacing the chips, including labor, not this measly cash that covers a tiny fraction of the costs. The legal system will work out their culpability. Nvidia will find out that it would have been far cheaper to come clean on this a lot earlier than now, and a lot more thoroughly than now.

Only have to look at Yahoo to see what happens when shareholders get rooked.

Good game. They are replacing the chips, and paying labor. They came out and said they were doing this but clearly you didn't bother to check up on this.

They said chips they sell for $20 in some cases, they are paying $200 to fix.

[saveus222]

Wrong. nVidia already made sure there is replacements and RMAs. Its simply trying to money milk from a flawed legal system.

id love to see what ud have to say if the company in this situation was amd :rofl:

its like saying its ok if someone beats u up as long as they give u a band aid after that..

if there really would be a widespread material problem with nvidia cards woudnt that affect amd cards then as well since both are made at tsmc and due to that most likely also made of the same material from the same source?

anyway, whats the point in sueing nvidia for failing cards? if it does fail at stock clocks and stock cooling just rma it.

no read the TG article. its beleived to be an issue with lead solders or something whereas amd uses eutectic solders....

[hurleybird]

Wow, what a scientific and thorough case study.

Sure, it's possible that it's something else, but the card was running great for over a year, he uses thermal management (lots of heating and cooling), and it's the exact same chip with the same problematic bumps. Putting two and two together here...

In any case, your assertion that OEMs don't loose a cent is stupid and false. Even if my dad's 8600GT died from something else, you had better believe that the problem has manifested itself in other desktop add-in boards. All of the chips have the same flaw, it's only a matter of usage patterns that determines how soon it manifests itself. There are also less obvious costs than just the materials, such as reputation -- the bios "fix" that drains batteries and increases noise for example. You had better believe that there are very serious intangible costs there.

Are you kidding? "that's what they've done"?

We have good reason (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10000910-64.html) to believe that NVIDIA knew about the defects for quite a while but only came clean recently. Are you saying that it *isn't* illegal to withhold crucial information from investors? If so, I have news for you buddy.

[Shintai]

id love to see what ud have to say if the company in this situation was amd :rofl:

its like saying its ok if someone beats u up as long as they give u a band aid after that..



no read the TG article. its beleived to be an issue with lead solders or something whereas amd uses eutectic solders....

Try look back with AMDs B2 chips with TLB bug. Its like claiming for a lawsuit there aswell! Both are beyond sanity.

Oh..and failed trollpost from you. :shakes:

[Sr7]

Sure, it's possible that it's something else, but the card was running great for over a year, he uses thermal management (lots of heating and cooling), and it's the exact same chip with the same problematic bumps. Putting two and two together here...

In any case, your assertion that OEMs don't loose a cent is stupid and false. Even if my dad's 8600GT died from something else, you had better believe that the problem has manifested itself in other desktop add-in boards. All of the chips have the same flaw, it's only a matter of usage patterns that determines how soon it manifests itself. There are also less obvious costs than just the materials, such as reputation -- the bios "fix" that drains batteries and increases noise for example. You had better believe that there are very serious intangible costs there.

We have good reason (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10000910-64.html) to believe that NVIDIA knew about the defects for quite a while but only came clean recently. Are you saying that it *isn't* illegal to withhold crucial information from investors? If so, I have news for you buddy.

The problems only manifest in certain environments, where cooling isn't sufficient, and the chips are heated up and cooled constantly. This isn't likely to affect desktops. What do you say to all the millions of chips that are running fine right now in desktops?

Sure the chips are likely "affected" because they use a material, but they'll never be in that corner case of failure because of thermal conditions.

And you're pretty bad at logic here. I never said anything about what is illegal and what isn't. I said that they didn't try to withhold the information. Why do I say that? Because 1) there is no proof of this, it's just an accusation (remember innocent until proven guilty) and 2) NVIDIA are the ones who came out and announced the issue, not another company, not users demanding something. They came out with it, knowing that it would affect the stock prices. So if they knew they had to come out with this information, why would they bother trying to sucker in investors just so they could knowingly drop the stock price later? You're using some pretty poor logic here with 0 proof.

And you're saying "draining batteries and increasing noise" costs dollars for some reason, because you were just informed about how NVIDIA is paying all repair costs?

[Cooper]

Try look back with AMDs B2 chips with TLB bug. Its like claiming for a lawsuit there aswell! Both are beyond sanity.


now try and re read your own post. So you saying that covering the info on a known defect for that long is the same as finding an errata within one month of production and issuing a fix to it ?
Dude i think your logic fails here

[Shintai]

now try and re read your own post. So you saying that covering the info on a known defect for that long is the same as finding an errata within one month of production and issuing a fix to it ?
Dude i think your logic fails here

Ok mr onecoloured person. AMDs B2 CPUs are forever and always DEFECT. Its like buying a car where the last gear doesnt work. With nVidia, they had to find and isolate the problem first (Just like AMD). And they already spend 280million$ or so for RMA cases. In short, with nVidia you get a new product if it fails. And it always perform 100%. You even had extended warranties from OEMs etc. All payed by nVidia.

Material degeneration is not something you uncover on a month or 2.

Where is your new B2 chip replacement for free?

But does any of the 2 warrant a lawsuit? No.

So dont try and glorify something due to your green glasses. Because its a huge failure. :down:

[hurleybird]

Reduced functionality isn't the same as random chip death, duh.

[saveus222]

Try look back with AMDs B2 chips with TLB bug. Its like claiming for a lawsuit there aswell! Both are beyond sanity.

Oh..and failed trollpost from you. :shakes:

AFAIK..the TLB bug was discovered, announced, patched, before phenoms were released.. and if it had come to this stage.. sure people would have sued AMD and I wouldnt have said,.. oh no legal system bla bla bad legal system people trying to make money bla bla..

[insurgent]

Ok mr onecoloured person. AMDs B2 CPUs are forever and always DEFECT. Its like buying a car where the last gear doesnt work. With nVidia, they had to find and isolate the problem first (Just like AMD). And they already spend 280million$ or so for RMA cases. In short, with nVidia you get a new product if it fails. And it always perform 100%. You even had extended warranties from OEMs etc. All payed by nVidia.

Material degeneration is not something you uncover on a month or 2.

Where is your new B2 chip replacement for free?

But does any of the 2 warrant a lawsuit? No.

So dont try and glorify something due to your green glasses. Because its a huge failure. :down:

You didn't even read the link did you? Just went on a bashing spree. The suit is about Nvidia allegedly hiding the problem when they ALREADY knew about it. What a joke you are. TLB bug.. :rolleyes:

from the link:
A lawsuit alleging Nvidia violated US securities laws and kept secret a major defect in its graphics chip product line was filed in a Californian district court yesterday.

[Miss Banana]

Ok mr onecoloured person. AMDs B2 CPUs are forever and always DEFECT. Its like buying a car where the last gear doesnt work. With nVidia, they had to find and isolate the problem first (Just like AMD). And they already spend 280million$ or so for RMA cases. In short, with nVidia you get a new product if it fails. And it always perform 100%. You even had extended warranties from OEMs etc. All payed by nVidia.

Material degeneration is not something you uncover on a month or 2.

Where is your new B2 chip replacement for free?

But does any of the 2 warrant a lawsuit? No.

So dont try and glorify something due to your green glasses. Because its a huge failure. :down:

AMD made sure everyone knew about the TLB bug before people had the chance to buy those cpu's. They also told shareholder as fast as they could.

Nvidia on the other hand, tried to hide this defect for 8 months misleading shareholders.
The comparison you make contains no sense.

In short, Cooper was right, you were wrong.

[Cooper]

Ok I think everyone got the point and made the conclusion - true or false depending on your mindset, education, religion whatever.
let's keep the tones down please.

[Perp]

Wrong. nVidia already made sure there is replacements and RMAs. Its simply trying to money milk from a flawed legal system.

The suit isn't for replacement parts it's for hiding the truth from investors who dropped considerably more money into the company via stock purchase than some piddly little retail purchase.

As a 50/50 partner in a business would you not sue your partner if he spent millions of dollars of your "company" money at the craps table in Vegas?

Legally speaking this case isn't much different, but the downside is that it will only further dilute the shares (lowering the price) which means as a shareholder you are suing yourself. Lastly, these kind of lawsuits are made mostly as a message to the board of directors and the CEO to straighten up or get replaced.

P.S. I don't know what the accounting standards in Denmark are, but you are legally required to report this kind of information to shareholders in the USA. They made a bad product and are paying for it. Now on top of that they are being called out for LYING to investors. Or should the investors be ignored and companies allowed to operate like Enron?

[tiro_uspsss]

*mmmmm karma.. sweet sweet karma* :D



AMD made sure everyone knew about the TLB bug before people had the chance to buy those cpu's. They also told shareholder as fast as they could.

Nvidia on the other hand, tried to hide this defect for 8 months misleading shareholders.
The comparison you make contains no sense.

In short, Cooper was right, you were wrong.


its like saying its ok if someone beats u up as long as they give u a band aid after that..

so very very agree with above posts :yepp: :up:

[deathman20]

read the article (3 parts) on the inquirer, you will understand after that

it's not about the die itself, its about the bumping material, etc etc....

I know what the issue is. I was just saying if the GPU was fine in itself, returning it because it hits 70C. Find a laptop that uses a GPU or even a CPU for that matter that won't hit 70C under full load in a typical 20C environment, without added cooling.

Thats an unreasonable expectation. Heck desktops hit those tempatures, what makes people think a laptop can keep it cooler than a desktop? Stock im talking about not modified or non-reference designs.

[AndrewZorn]

This is why there are things like
- Warranties
- Customer service
- Competitors

Things don't always work 100% every time

[G0ldBr1ck]

At work we ordered 12 Dell Vostro 1500's with 8600mGT GPU in all of them. This was about 8 months ago, and sence all the issues with these GPU's all of us have tryed to see if our GPU's would fail. We stress the hell out of them daily and cant get them above 57deg C. They just keep going strong. I just dont understand how its made to sound like such a large scale fail rate but ours seem bullet proof. I just hope if its gonna die it dose soon.

[hurleybird]

Sure the chips are likely "affected" because they use a material, but they'll never be in that corner case of failure because of thermal conditions.

You're using some pretty poor logic here with 0 proof.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

We're done here.

[villa1n]

Good game. They are replacing the chips, and paying labor. They came out and said they were doing this but clearly you didn't bother to check up on this.

They said chips they sell for $20 in some cases, they are paying $200 to fix.

I'm not sure what vested interest you have in Nvidia, but the issue remains, they hid vital info from shareholders, and mislead them, and upon disclosure 8 months later, those share holders took a 20-30% hit, because they were not informed and the public reacted. I m guessing you don't do much trading or know much about investing to see why this is such a large problem. That is the main issue.
As for the effects of this, to the consumer, even if their mobile chip does not fail, the "fixes" they have will detrimentally affect overall performance of the laptop, as having the fan work overtime to maintain abnormally low GPU temps will wear the fan out, and crush your battery time. The issue is that these gpu's are failing under the conditions they were specified to work in. They were designed to hit 70C and operate with no problems. Nvidia went cheap and cut a corner on solder methods...and it came back to haunt them. No evangelizing on your part are going to change these matters.

As for shintai, your tlb comparison is ridiculous. One is hardware failure, the other is instruction set. One is disclosed 8months after to shareholders and public after months of denial, one is disclosed as soon as the problem is discovered before the sale of the product. With the TLB, buyers could be informed as the information was disclosed and out there...with nvidia, the problem was withheld, intentionally misleading consumers..which is also a nono, but worse it wasn't disclosed to shareholders, which is grounds for damages.

[naokaji]

Try look back with AMDs B2 chips with TLB bug. Its like claiming for a lawsuit there aswell! Both are beyond sanity.


main difference there though is that amd admitted to the tlb bug and offered a workaround (even if it cost a lot of performance).

[Shintai]

main difference there though is that amd admitted to the tlb bug and offered a workaround (even if it cost a lot of performance).

And nVidia replaces defect GPUs and extends warranties without a performance loss. So why a lawsuit? nVidia admitted problems. But unlike the TLB bug, material degeneration is not something you pull up in test overnight.

[hurleybird]

And nVidia replaces defect GPUs and extends warranties without a performance loss. So why a lawsuit? nVidia admitted problems. But unlike the TLB bug, material degeneration is not something you pull up in test overnight.

Because they took 8 months to admit those problems and willfully mislead investors? How long is this going to take to get through to you?

[MrMojoZ]

Because they took 8 months to admit those problems and willfully mislead investors? How long is this going to take to get through to you?

It never will, he'll just get bored reading the thread and move on. The only thing that matters is the company name. :down:

[villa1n]

And nVidia replaces defect GPUs and extends warranties without a performance loss. So why a lawsuit? nVidia admitted problems. But unlike the TLB bug, material degeneration is not something you pull up in test overnight.

Lets make this painfully clear to you, as you seem to have issues with selective data uptake.

THE LAWSUIT IS ABOUT NVIDIA ALLEGEDLY WITHHOLDING INFORMATION ABOUT MATERIALS FAILURE FOR 8 MONTHS FROM INVESTORS, AND THE RESULTANT 3BILLION DOLLAR STOCK HIT THEY TOOK WHEN IT FINALLY WAS ANNOUCED. THE LAWSUIT IS FILING FOR DAMAGES FOR MISLEADING THE INVESTORS, NOT ABOUT NVIDIA RECTIFYING THE PROBLEM WITH OEMS/CUSTOMERS

[tiro_uspsss]

Lets make this painfully clear to you, as you seem to have issues with selective data uptake.

THE LAWSUIT IS ABOUT NVIDIA ALLEGEDLY WITHHOLDING INFORMATION ABOUT MATERIALS FAILURE FOR 8 MONTHS FROM INVESTORS, AND THE RESULTANT 3BILLION DOLLAR STOCK HIT THEY TOOK WHEN IT FINALLY WAS ANNOUCED. THE LAWSUIT IS FILING FOR DAMAGES FOR MISLEADING THE INVESTORS, NOT ABOUT NVIDIA RECTIFYING THE PROBLEM WITH OEMS/CUSTOMERS

i'm quoting him ^, so as to repeat his crystal clear post & explanation, juuust in case its not quite sunken in :p: :D

[v_rr]

INVESTOR ALERT: KGS Notifies NVIDIA Corp. Purchasers With Losses Greater Than $300,000, of Lead Plaintiff Application Deadline in Securities Class Action Lawsuit -- NVDA

NEW ORLEANS, LA--(MARKET WIRE)--Sep 12, 2008 -- Kahn Gauthier Swick, LLC ("KGS") announces that a securities class action lawsuit was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, on behalf of purchasers of the common stock of NVIDIA Corp. (NasdaqGS:NVDA - News) ("NVIDIA" or the "Company"), between November 8, 2007, and July 2, 2008, inclusive (the "Class Period"). No class has yet been certified in this action.

If you would like to discuss your legal rights, you may e-mail or call KGS Managing Partner Lewis Kahn, without obligation or cost to you, toll free 1-866-467-1400, ext. 100, via cell phone after hours at 504-301-7900, or by email at lewis.kahn@kgscounsel.com.

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NVIDIA and certain of its officers are charged with violating the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, by issuing a series of materially false statements that concealed and failed to disclose, that failure rates of NVIDIA's products were well above reported amounts or historical norms, and were adversely impacting the Company's near-term and foreseeable financial and operational results. It was only on July 2, 2008, that defendants belatedly disclosed that its product failure rates were over 10 times levels expected by analysts and investors. Following defendants' belated disclosure, NVIDIA's stock plummeted -- losing over $3 billion in market capitalization -- causing material damage to investors.

If you wish to serve as lead plaintiff in this class action lawsuit, you must move the Court no later than November 10, 2008. Any member of the putative class may move the Court to serve as lead plaintiff through counsel of their choice, or may choose to do nothing and remain an absent class member. If you would like to discuss your legal rights, you may e-mail or call KGS Managing Partner Lewis Kahn, without obligation or cost to you, toll free 1-866-467-1400, ext. 100, after hours via cell phone 504-301-7900, or by email at lewis.kahn@kgscounsel.com. To learn more about KGS, you may visit www.kgscounsel.com. KGS is a law firm focused on securities class action litigation with offices in New Orleans and New York City.

KGS' lawyers have significant experience litigating complex securities class actions. Among other cases, KGS has been appointed Lead or Co-Lead Counsel in the following securities cases: In re: U.S. Auto Parts Networks, Inc. Securities Litigation, C.D. Cal.; In re Optionable, Inc. Securities Litigation, S.D.N.Y.; In re Xethanol Corporation Securities Litigation, S.D.N.Y.; Pixelplus Co. Ltd., S.D.N.Y.; In re Witness Systems Inc. Securities Litigation, N.D. Ga.; Whitney Information Network, M.D. Fla.; Bodisen Biotech, Inc., S.D.N.Y.; Pegasus Wireless Corp., S.D. Fla.; In re Xinhua Finance Media, Ltd. Securities Litigation, S.D.N.Y.; Terayon Comm. Systems Inc., N.D. Cal.; Gaming Partners, D. Nev.; and In re BigBand Networks, Inc. Securities Litigation, N.D. Cal.

SPECIAL NOTICE: KGS encourages you to carefully evaluate any firm you may consider to represent your interests in the NVIDIA class action. The Private Securities Litigation Reform Act ("PSLRA") permits NVIDIA shareholders to choose counsel of their choice to prosecute this action. Critical components of a law firm's ability to successfully prosecute this action and obtain a strong recovery for you include the resources it will dedicate to prosecution of the case, including the number of lawyers the firm has available for the NVIDIA action in particular, AND especially the quality of the firm's work. Interested shareholders are encouraged to call for consultation and to request more information about KGS. While KGS has not filed suit yet, the firm is currently conducting its own investigation of NVIDIA and invites shareholders to evaluate its complaint when choosing counsel.
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080912/0433165.html

---

Nvidia shares fall to 3-year low

Nvidia shares fall to 3-year low after analyst downgrades to 'Equal Weight' on weak conditions

NEW YORK (AP) -- Nvidia Corp. shares fell to a new three-year low Thursday after an analyst downgraded the stock to "Equal Weight," saying several factors -- including weaker conditions in the desktop and notebook-graphics markets -- may cause the graphics chip maker to lower its estimates.

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Nvidia shares fell 52 cents, or 4.8 percent, to $10.30. Earlier, the shares traded as low as $9.96 -- their lowest since September 2005.

In a note to clients, Lehman Brothers analyst Tim Luke reduced his rating from "Overweight" and cut his price target to $12 from $15.

Luke said that after chip maker Advanced Micro Devices Inc. became competitive in the graphics processing market he had still considered Nvidia "a value idea" that could see gradual improvements in revenues and operating margins off of its fiscal second-quarter levels.

"However, we now believe weaker global end market conditions for both desktop and notebook graphics with lower end mix shift and weaker chipset demand from core chipset customer AMD may bring sales and earnings-per-share estimates lower," the analyst said.

In August, Nvidia's President and Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said the desktop PC market has weakened, and added that Nvidia's "miscalculation of competitive price position further pressured our desktop (graphics processing unit) business."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080911/nvda_mover.html?.v=1

[gojirasan]

I realize this is a pro-AMD web site, but some of you are REALLY OTT. Those of you who are treating this as good news make me ill. You are like those people who were cheering when they heard about the 9/11 disaster. AMD fanboys are definitely the most rabid I have ever seen. It is not good for anyone if Nvidia suffers. It will be great when both AMD and Nvidia go out of business. Then we can buy our new graphics cards from.... Intel?!? And make no mistake, if Nvidia takes huge losses the price of graphics cards will go up. Anyone who doubts the power of competition need only look at the difference in prices from before the 4870 was released and after. We need to have both companies in the game and doing well to have a healthy market.

[insurgent]

Exaggerate much? 9/11 similar to lying to investors? This is part of the free market and even democracy, punishing a perceived wrong.

[villa1n]

I realize this is a pro-AMD web site, but some of you are REALLY OTT. Those of you who are treating this as good news make me ill. You are like those people who were cheering when they heard about the 9/11 disaster. AMD fanboys are definitely the most rabid I have ever seen. It is not good for anyone if Nvidia suffers. It will be great when both AMD and Nvidia go out of business. Then we can buy our new graphics cards from.... Intel?!? And make no mistake, if Nvidia takes huge losses the price of graphics cards will go up. Anyone who doubts the power of competition need only look at the difference in prices from before the 4870 was released and after. We need to have both companies in the game and doing well to have a healthy market.

ok. first don't make insulting comparisons to people that are happy the law is being upheld, and that insider corruption is being dealt with and equate it to morbid :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana:s that are happy people jumped from a building burning alive. Secondly, on the consumer end this sucks, if prices go up, but being an investor, i m glad there is protection against for my money not being pilfered by a ceo hiding information and misleading me, if it turns out to be the case. You sound like you think catching Enron was a bad thing?

[Miss Banana]

I realize this is a pro-AMD web site

You realize wrong.

but some of you are REALLY OTT.

That is not a word.

Those of you who are treating this as good news make me ill.

It's good news that a company that misleads investors pays the price. If that logic makes you ill then the problem may be on your end.

You are like those people who were cheering when they heard about the 9/11 disaster.

Sorry what?!
What the hell are you talking about?

AMD fanboys are definitely the most rabid I have ever seen. It is not good for anyone if Nvidia suffers.

You do not have to be an AMD fanboy to realize that what nvidia did is wrong. I do not want nvidia to go out of business, I do want them to be honest about screwups like AMD is.

We need to have both companies in the game and doing well to have a healthy market.

Exactly, a company covering up screwups is not doing well in my opinion. How about next time you post you try to keep the ridiculous comparisons to yourself?

[initialised]

Not only this, but nvidia is quite famous for their coil whine.I got that with an 8800GTS512 (above 780 core) and also with 4870x2, it's down to power draw and generally comes from the PSU not the VGA card.

[HotGore]

I realize this is a pro-AMD web site, but some of you are REALLY OTT. Those of you who are treating this as good news make me ill. You are like those people who were cheering when they heard about the 9/11 disaster. AMD fanboys are definitely the most rabid I have ever seen. It is not good for anyone if Nvidia suffers. It will be great when both AMD and Nvidia go out of business. Then we can buy our new graphics cards from.... Intel?!? And make no mistake, if Nvidia takes huge losses the price of graphics cards will go up. Anyone who doubts the power of competition need only look at the difference in prices from before the 4870 was released and after. We need to have both companies in the game and doing well to have a healthy market.

Being happy that insider corruption is being dealt with harshly, and that nvidia wont get away with making defective chips does not equal people dying.

[saveus222]

Ok mr onecoloured person. AMDs B2 CPUs are forever and always DEFECT. Its like buying a car where the last gear doesnt work. With nVidia, they had to find and isolate the problem first (Just like AMD). And they already spend 280million$ or so for RMA cases. In short, with nVidia you get a new product if it fails. And it always perform 100%. You even had extended warranties from OEMs etc. All payed by nVidia.

Material degeneration is not something you uncover on a month or 2.

Where is your new B2 chip replacement for free?

But does any of the 2 warrant a lawsuit? No.

So dont try and glorify something due to your green glasses. Because its a huge failure. :down:

:rofl: its amazing when he cant make a decent point u can always find out by the personal attacks.. he once said i was smoking pot while posting bla bla hahahaha..

And nVidia replaces defect GPUs and extends warranties without a performance loss. So why a lawsuit? nVidia admitted problems. But unlike the TLB bug, material degeneration is not something you pull up in test overnight.

yes yes lots of car companies realise they have defective first gears and offer to fix the first gears for free..

I realize this is a pro-AMD web site, but some of you are REALLY OTT. Those of you who are treating this as good news make me ill. You are like those people who were cheering when they heard about the 9/11 disaster. AMD fanboys are definitely the most rabid I have ever seen. It is not good for anyone if Nvidia suffers. It will be great when both AMD and Nvidia go out of business. Then we can buy our new graphics cards from.... Intel?!? And make no mistake, if Nvidia takes huge losses the price of graphics cards will go up. Anyone who doubts the power of competition need only look at the difference in prices from before the 4870 was released and after. We need to have both companies in the game and doing well to have a healthy market.

pro amd ? hahahaha