Tools and brand questions

[Sgrios]

I've been lurking on the XS forums since early 2006, mainly the Vapor Phase Change Cooling section. Read a few books (Modern Refrigeration and Air Conditioning 2003 edition) and now I'm going about starting my first build.

More on topic, a tool list if anyone notices I'm missing something let me know.

Manifold Gauges - Analog or digital?
Tubing cutter - Mini or full sized?
Deburring Tool - A internal/external Deburring Tool or just a tube deburrer?
Tube Bender - Just a 180 standard tubing bender?
Flaring/swagging tool(s)
UEI - DT302
Vacuum pump - JB PlatinumTM Pump?
MAP torch
Brazing Rods along with Flux

Any recommendations on what brand(s) of tools I should be buying? I was thinking a JB PlatinumTM Pump. 5CFM should be fine for the work we're doing correct? For the flaring/swagging tools I was either thinking Ridgit or Imperial. For manifold gauges analog or digital? I'm not sure the quality of digital gauges and analog gauges for refrigeration compare.

Budget: $1250 for tools.

Thank you,
Sgrios

[teyber]

absolutely a analog manifold.

i would get:

yellow jacket brute 2 with 1/2" vacuum hose, and short hoses
oxy acetylene torch
get a fluke 52 with that kind of money

shoot... g2g ill get back to this later :)

[Sgrios]

(UEI - DT302)
Don't like UEI much? I've read good things about UEI. It also appears that many of the builders like the UEI brand name.

I like the idea of a Oxygen and Acetylene torch, but I have no idea how to properly operate. All my practice with brazing work has been done with MAP gas torch. Is brazing with a Oxygen and Acetylene torch a pretty easy concept (so to speak) to pick up? Just not sure on the mixture I'd need to achieve the flame..

Purging Gas(es):
I have Co2 along with a regulator, however I've heard mixed views about using Co2 as a purging gas.

Thank you,
Jeff

*Side note: Thoughts on a cap tube cutter? Not sure if it's a necessity.

[loonym]

Oxy-acetylene brazing is great. There's no great trick to the mixture, simply adjust the torch to a neutral flame. Advantages over mapp are quicker heating and better control.

[Sgrios]

@Loonym - I'll take a look again at some of the Oxygen and Acetylene guides on this site.

Thanks,
Jeff

[teyber]

sgrios- the disadvantages are the extreme explosivness of it... its extremely dangerous if you do something stupid with it so try to have somebody teach you how to use one... its quite simple, you have a torch, a tip for the torch, flashback arrestors (HINT HINT USE THEM), hose, a acetylene tank, a oxygen tank, a acetylene regulator and a oxygen regulator. the two gases travel to the torch at a set PSI (use the search button... a safe starting point is ~ 5psig/ 10psigoxygen and work from there). the torch has two knobs where you adjust the oxygen/acetylene mix.

Many builders HAVE the uei because its cheap but hate it. If i have 1 plug in and plug in a second plug, it actually affects the temperatures of the first plug. I have a uei dt200 and its nice for the price but as soon as i have money i will be buying a fluke 52-2 which is considered the absolute best thermometer for our purposes. it costs $225-250 or so.

Vacuum pump... idk the "best" pump. if possible don't spend crazy amounts and invest in a vacuum gauge as well.

Im going to charge my cam batteries and take some pics for you of my favorite tools and i recommend.... All we are telling you with tools is just overkill, but very nice tools. you don't need oxy acet torch, vacuum gauge, fluke thermometer, et cetera... just make it a lot better. When you mentioned digital manifold that would be your entire budget lol.

ill post pics of MY favorite tools in a minute....

How much is the dt302?

cheers

[teyber]

k-
here are some of my favorite tools that i use all the time.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2583.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2583.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2586.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2586.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2589.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2589.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2590.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2590.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2591.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2591.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2593.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2593.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2594.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2594.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2595.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2595.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2597.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2597.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2598.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2598.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2600.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2600.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2601.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2601.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2602.jpg (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2602.jpg)

cheers :)

[killermiller]

Quality tools will make your experience much more pleasurable. Swage set shouldn't matter as long as its for refrigeration sized tubing. I got one of ebay that was a generic for about $50.

Get a couple extra qts. of vacuum pump oil, you won't need flux unless you are brazing metals other then copper.
No need getting a O/A setup until you get used to brazing with mapp. You don't want to jump into a racecar right a way, do you? (Don't answer that)

You will need a recover unit, check ebay but if it looks like its had a rough life, it probably has. Tube bender isn't necessary unless you have money left in your budget. With systems as small as we build here, you won't notice the difference between 5cfm and 3 cfm so if there is a 3 available get that. Don't need a deburring tool unless you are doing flares. Flaring tool will be a head in the swage kit. Mini cutter is fine for what you will be doing. You can get those up to 7/8 which should be fine. +1 on the Brute Manifold. YJ HVAC tools are tested at the factory so you can be sure it will work when you get it.

Hey Teyber, it must be windy in your garage :D

p.s. thumbnails=fail:sofa:

[Sgrios]

Thank you very much everyone.

I agree about the O/A, but I have been practicing with my MAP torch.

Teyber what model Robinair Vacuum pump was that in the pictures? Also, what company makes that flare/swagging set Teyber?

Supco Electronic Vacuum Gauge, correct?

Thanks again,
Jeff

[teyber]

sgrios-
hey!

robinair 15600... i absolutely love it. the vacuum gauge is a vg64, the cheaper model of the supco vgxx i believe would just fine through great, and about 80 bucks cheaper.

its actually not really a flare kit... its made by bacharach. Check it out at www.hvacr-tools.com make that sight your friend.
Its a clamping swag... the main reason i use it is when brazing two peices of copper together, this cleanly expands one end so it fits into the other for easier and stronger brazes. Flare is to create a fitting between copper/ a thread. it was around $100 when i bought it, very expensive but compared to other versions of this its very cheap (tube expander= very expensive!) and i absolutely love this thing :)

One thing i recommend is to get a manifold with no hoses... they usually come with very long hoses which make vacuuming take a lot longer. Get your own, to be safe id say 36" and even though its really expensive i found big decreases in vacuum time with a 1/2" tubing. All we are telling you is just a luxury... A $40 two valve manifold with a t-line should do you just fine. mapp torch will do the job.

use 15% silver content brazing rods... id just order them from under-the-ice.com you can occasionally find them on ebay for like $15 cheaper but then they usually rob you on shipping, are in nasty condition, and its hard to find these deals. i would just go with uti...

tube bender just buy if you have money left over. They are cheapish at hvacr-tools.com.

killermiller- GAH! i hate thumbnails also but 3 people have pm'd me at several forums in the past 2 weeks asking for thumbnails... plus i didn't want to dominate the thread so i just did it this way. i like full too :(

its hot so i have a lot of fans in the garage... but my hair is just naturally crazy :p:

edit:

you will need to save some cash for refrigerant also.

cheers

[Sgrios]

My father has a Class A Refrigeration license. So access to refrigerant will not be a issue. I also have two sealed 30lb's of R-22 in my work area. (Prolly just sell them off.) That budget is just for tools.

Thank you very much Teyber for all your suggestions and knowledge.

[teyber]

np :)

and wow... i was off by a lot
http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HVACR&Product_Code=2002-6500&Category_Code=
manifold
http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HVACR&Product_Code=46010&Category_Code=
two of these
http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HVACR&Product_Code=12036&Category_Code=

a hose to go to your refrigerant
a hose to go to your vacuum pump... size depends on the vacuum pump connection size and a couple other factors. i would try to get a 1/2" hose.

co2 will work great as a purging gas. you said co2 tank with manifold... i hope you mean with regulator? always use regulator with a cylinder or you very well could die

[Sgrios]

I meant to say regulator. Mixing my terminology up. :( Regulator with manifold gauge.

Any thoughts on Manifold particulate filters and what model of Yellow Jacket BRUTE 2 did you get? (46020- R12/22/502)?

[teyber]

hey! no worries just wanted to check :p:

i have the one i linked ya... the r404a/r410a/r22. that doesn't mean its limited to those, just the gauges display those refrigerants p/t charts.

no idea on manifold particulate filter. i have a actual filter on my refrigerant input but mainly for use with r290

[wdrzal]

Hey Teyber, it must be windy in your garage :D

p.s. thumbnails=fail:sofa:


Hey ,he spent all day at the hair dresser to get that Perm. Is that you natural color? :p: j/k :D:sofa:

That's the Cali surfer dude look.:up:

[Sgrios]

Yeah for the P/T charts. For some reason I read in a HVAC forum, that manifold gauges for R-12 can handle a broader range of refrigerant. It would appear that is nothing more the forum BS :rofl:

Thank you :clap:

[wdrzal]

Rothenburger makes a nice Flare/double flare/cutter/reamer/swaging adapters in one nice kit.
I'll be out of town most of tomorrow but can post a pic either tomorrow night or the next day.
I seen them at sears for a little over 100.00. They use a quick clamp method which is really nice.

The flare tool was actually designed by Generial Dynamics who sold it under 3 companys names until the patent expired. just be sure to get a 45 degree flare.

[teyber]

wait!

the robinair 15600 is way overpriced at hvacr-tools.com...

i think its best to say what your going to buy on the forums so people can correct any mistakes :)

The swag kit you described said 3/4"-1 1/8"... if thats true its useless for us.

walt- my hair requires lots of maintenence... in that i have to dry it. i like it better when its short as i don't even have to try it when im out of the shower hehe. thats all i do to it... dry it and im ready for the world :)

What tools do you think you are getting? this must be so exciting for you :)

[Sgrios]

Yellow Jacket 46010 BRUTE R410A/404A/22 Manifold w/o Hoses
Yellow Jacket 12036 - HB-36" length, 1/4" fl. x 1/4" 90° Yellow Charging Hoses
Fluke 52-2 Dual Input Thermometer
Bacharach HT128 Capillary Cutter, #2002-8000 (Yes, no?)
Yellow Jacket 60101 Premium Small Tube Cutter, 1/8" to 1-1/8" O.D.
Bacharach HT666 #2002-6700 3 in 1 Tubing Bender 180°
Bacharach HT368 #2002-6800 3 in 1 Tubing Bender 90°
Supco VG64 Digital Vacuum Gauge with case.
Robinair 15600 6 CFM Vacuum Pump
Robinair 13203Q Premium Vacuum Pump Oil, Quart Bottle
Yellow Jacket 60163 Tube Deburring Tool

Still need to figure out what Swagging/flaring tool I want.
I've always hated spending money, but might as well do it right the first time.

Side note: Later it gets at night or early morning in this case, the less memory retention. :down:

[teyber]

ways to sk immy down-

1)the 15600 is too much at hvacr-tools... i got mine brand new in box for $250 shipped.
2) for now skip the 90 degree bender... the 180 degree bender should have a 90 degree mark on it.
3) don't buy the cap tube cutter. i hate them. just score it where you want to cut it, bend it back and forth with needle nose pliers till it snaps (easy to do) then use a pin to open it up.
4) i don't have nor use a tube deburring tool...
5) You will love the vg64. set it up on a t-line, not directly, and never apply pressure to it. its fragile so don't drop it, when cleaning it only use pure isopropyl alcohal.
6) you will need 2 of those hoses, and i recommend a 1/2" charging hose. they are pricey but i love it. i really noticed a big difference in vacuum times from the 3/8" to the 1/2"... a huge help also was the core removal tools in this aspect. I use lots of hoses for random things... you may look into buying the 2 hoses i linked you, a vacuum hose, and a cheap set of maybe 3 bacharach hoses for odd and end things.
You will need recovery u nit and a recovery tank for each refrigerant you use... at some point.

whats that all add up to?

im jealous of the thermometer :) we will have almost all the same stuff! lol. Do you have a multimeter?

[Sgrios]

Yellow Jacket 46010 BRUTE R410A/404A/22 Manifold w/o Hoses
Yellow Jacket 12036 - HB-36" length, 1/4" fl. x 1/4" 90° fl. Yellow Charging Hoses
Yellow Jacket 15836 C 36" 1/2" fl. x 1/2" fl.
52-2 Fluke 52-2 Dual Input Thermometer
Supco VG64 Digital Vacuum Gauge
Robinair 13203Q Premium Vacuum Pump Oil, Quart Bottle
Robinair 15600 6 CFM Vacuum Pump
Robinair 13145 1/4" Valve Core Removers
Bacharach HT666 #2002-6700 3 in 1 Tubing Bender 180°
Bacharach HT278 Flaring, Swaging & Cutting Kit, 2002-6500
Yellow Jacket 60163 Tube Deburring Tool

Total of $1,177.66

I do have a multi-meter.
Not sure if theres anything I'm missing. Torch and stuff is already taken care of, brazing rods and a 'T' for the Vacuum gauge would be the only other expenses I see, as far as tools go.

[teyber]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Robinair-15600-6-CFM-2-Stage-Vacuum-Pump-R-12-R-134a_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43989QQihZ018QQite mZ280264012296QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

theres $100 you saved...

instead of buying quarts of vacuum pump oil id try to buy gallons... like on ebay. you go through more then you would imagine.

you will also need a load tester but not sure if thats in this run or not...



How do other people here attatch their vacuum gauges?

[Sgrios]

Just looking at the same Ebay. :rofl:
Gallons it is then. Was just trying to keep it all at one place, but for $100 it's worth the extra shipping cost.

Load testing, I was thinking a cartridge heater setup. Teyber how do you like your Bacharach Flaring, Swaging Kit, money aside?

Thanks again for all your help/research Teyber.

[yngndrw]

Tyber: Why do you have a 90 degree tube bender and a 180 degree tube bender ? Does the 180 degree bender not do both jobs ?

What valve core removers are you using ? (CD3930 ?)

Also how well does that Propane adaptor work for you ?

[teyber]

sgrios- sure thing :)

the one i linked you to has free shipping btw.
i Luuuuve my bacharach kit but TBH ive never used anything else. Being nit-picky it can be really hard to get the swag out of the tube once you swag a pipe... but just move it around and it comes out. I would say a definite buy. I was used to using those damn little hammer in swags which, S*CK. try to avoid those... these swag kits are great :) much stronger brazes and like i said it makes it a lot easier to braze things when you can insert the pipes into each other.

yngndrw- ive had no problems with the propane adapter... its what drewmeister uses... just a propane torch cheap on ebay with a schrader brazed to it, BUT DON"T BRAZE WITH PROPANE BOTTLE ON IT.
yup thats my core removal tool. its very high quality and its like 1/4 the price you brits pay for them :P After using about 5-10 times i suspected a leak in my manifold/crt's but i leak tested them to 315psig and put them in a tub and they held pressure for 2 days without any bubbles.. first time i have heard of crt's not leaking.

reed

[Sgrios]

Teybey in the way of recovery units and tanks what would you recommend? Down the road I hope, as I have burned up my budget, but there is no sense in releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere.

cheers

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Oxy Acetylene is the difference between back yard DIY and pro, you want to do a solid good looking joints one compressors with out baking the parts? Oxy acetyl is the only way to do so.
I recommend the Smith quick braze torch, comes with several very handy tips! and is perfect for tight corners and such!

With Oxy acetylene you have less heat crawl, and just the local area gets hot, less oxidization due to the shorter heating times.

Vacuum pump? How patient are you? 2 to 3cfm 2stage will be plenty and a VG64 Vacuum gauge and you'll be set.

Metallic Vacuum hose 3/8 is more then reasonable as your manifold will be chocking it down to 1/4 why spend more then required.

For recovery unit, if you'll be working with 1 or two gases make it your self and save the money, if working with many a stinger is cheap and oiless for multiple gasses! Never run virgin gas through it though! it relies on some of the oil in the system to keep it going!

The little stuff is what gets you!
- High grade flaring tool & Swedging set (It makes all the differance in fabricating and sweating pipe!)
- Benders in several sizes (Again makes a ton of differance in fabrication)
- Tap & die set Imperial & Metric (Makes life easy for parts mounting)
- Cutters small & large
- Pipe deburring tool
- A good multimeter that does capacitance & frequancy with true RMS.
- A good current meter that is class 3 rated (Will make life easy for diagnostics)
- A good pipe clamp thermalcuple ( More for making life easy then any thing ells)
- Flash light (Again for diagnostics and can come in handy for fabrication)
- Charging scale or cylinder! (DO not buy the cylinder used, chanses are they're selling becuase the seal has gon!)
- Proces tube adaptor kit and pinch off tool (Saves you a crap load on schraders and gives you a tight system!)
- Multistep drill bit for metal (Verry important for making race ways and bulk heads for tubing and such!)
- Good socket set (For fabrication)
- High quality production class drills! (Will last forever and get the cases made nice and clean!)
- Leak detector (If you want to get serious about this)
- Schrader depresser tool for your gauges
- Antiblowback hoses for your manifold set
And much much more, but there is the basic tool set to get things don

If you get cheap you pay for it in aggravation and failed joints and pipes that don't quite fit when they should & excessive burring! Pay now and play stress free, when you do as much fabrication and building as I do you learn quick it just isn't worth the hassle to have cheap tools!

Now mind you I do fabrication and refrigeration work for a living so some of this stuff won't be relevant for you just doing 2 to 3 builds, but if you want to do it as a hobby there is no escaping the list!

FYI 2grand is nothing when building up the tool list ;) You can streatch it out with ebay and such but for starters will get ya the core basics.

[Sgrios]

Thank you very much for your suggestions and guidance Xeon th MG Pony. :):)
Oxygen and Acetylene torch setup may have to wait till after the first build, I already have a MAP torch and I've used up my budget currently for tools.

Is there any flaring tool & Swagging set you swear by Xeon?
I have a few thousand in hand tools, drill press, bits, etc. but I see what you mean about stretching that $2000 rather fast in this hobby.

It won't be a few builds, I have a list of some people in the Michigan area that would be interested in unit(s). Now to see if I can make it all come together.;)

Do it right the first time I always say.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Yellow jacket and Ritchie are good ones, get the concentric cone type, they role the pipe rather then stretching it to shape so gives a very nice polished flare! For swagging I like the hammer type along with the flaring yoke type allows for expedience and flexibility pending on the situation.

Good policy, All the skill in the world can only do so much with basic tools! Good tools is where skill can really shine!

When you start building you'll become good friends with the drill press! and the Taps ;)

[EvoCarlos]

tayber your tool colection is great i love it and wish i had all tho's bits but just one thing
DUDE get ya hair cut :rofl::rofl::rofl:
and as said - code ftw

[IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2601.jpg

[teyber]

Thank you very much for your suggestions and guidance Xeon th MG Pony. :):)
Oxygen and Acetylene torch setup may have to wait till after the first build, I already have a MAP torch and I've used up my budget currently for tools.

Is there any flaring tool & Swagging set you swear by Xeon?
I have a few thousand in hand tools, drill press, bits, etc. but I see what you mean about stretching that $2000 rather fast in this hobby.

It won't be a few builds, I have a list of some people in the Michigan area that would be interested in unit(s). Now to see if I can make it all come together.;)

Do it right the first time I always say.

you should get more experience before you start selling...

try using 2 mapp torches, get a second one cheap on ebay. those joints that are hard to braze makes it a bit easier with two torches

[Sgrios]

Oh I know Teyber. I just have some friends that are interested if it all comes together. I don't plan to even consider selling till I have a good build amount under my belt. I have two MAP torches, one that is a adjustable flame with swirl tip and the other is just a swirl tip.

[teyber]

sounds good :) on evaporators/compressor joints/ condenser joints you will find it easier to heat it with 2 torches then when its red hot try to safely t urn 1 torch off then keep it hot and apply the brazing rod to it. i have never done this, (i have o/a) so i cannot say how safely or easily you can do this.... Just use your head and it should be fine

[Xeon th MG Pony]

you should get more experience before you start selling...

try using 2 mapp torches, get a second one cheap on ebay. those joints that are hard to braze makes it a bit easier with two torches

That or do it right and invest in a real set up.

[teyber]

That or do it right and invest in a real set up.

xeon... no offense here, as i agree i love oxy acet, but thats like saying if you want to build computers for people you gotta spend $400 on a screwdriver...

bad analogy i know, but he can make great systems with just 1 mapp torch.

with that said, oxy/acet is absolutely awsome:up:

[Sgrios]

That or do it right and invest in a real set up.

I agree with this, but a budget is a budget. I live with in my means, I'd prefer not to go into debt for a hobby.

@Teyber - It would seem that Oxygen & Acetylene is a great investment, it will come in due time. More work hours, here I come ;).

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll make a post when I take delivery of all these Tools.

[sirheck]

One thing about oxy/act torches.

Do not let oil or any petrolium products get on the oxy hose.

Example: You change oil on your car, have some on the floor.
Drag the hose thru the oil.

Delayed FIRE.

[Sgrios]

I'll keep that in mind thanks. Thankfully I have a basement workshop so no changing of oil there.

[sirheck]

I kinda over exaggerate it but it can happen.
Its happened to me several times.

Always shut the tankvalves off when you are done welding/brazing.

Or try to remember too.
I sometimes forget.

usually if you forget and have a leak you will loose most of your gas
and come to find an empty tank.

If you do have a leak you should see it at the gauges when you shut the valves off
as they will leak down/drop pressure fairly quick.

Really nothing to worry about.
Torches are pretty damn reliable and safe.
Just get to know how they work and be safe.:)

[Sgrios]

Thank you very much for your knowledge there sirheck. Sadly my budget doesn't have them in mind just yet. Maybe in a month I'll put the order in. First I need to hone my skills some more with MAP gas.

Cheers

[sirheck]

Good luck and have fun.
And give us some pics of your project as it progresses like teyber does.:)

[Sgrios]

@Teyber or whom ever for that matter - I'll be placing my orders today for all the tools needed, just had to move some money around.

For my first builds should I just go with 404a? I realized deciding on a refrigerant would be important before buying Manifold gauges. :rofl:


- Desuperheater Coil (about 2-2.5 meters of 6mm copper tubing)
- 210cm 0.8mm Captube
- R404a Refrigerant

[yngndrw]

Regarding Oxy-Fuel torches, I was thinking of getting a Smith little torch and using that with disposable oxygen and mapp bottles. http://www.littletorch.com/kits.html

That may be cheaper for you.

[teyber]

@Teyber or whom ever for that matter - I'll be placing my orders today for all the tools needed, just had to move some money around.

For my first builds should I just go with 404a? I realized deciding on a refrigerant would be important before buying Manifold gauges. :rofl:


- Desuperheater Coil (about 2-2.5 meters of 6mm copper tubing)
- 210cm 0.8mm Captube
- R404a Refrigerant

btw... are you from maastricht? or US?

no doesn't really matter... as i said all the refrigerant is on the gauge is the p/t chart which you can just print one out.

r404a is a nice easy to work with refrigerant...

cheers

edit- yngdrw.... lol imo that would be the worst way to do it. the main reason people get torches is they can use them with oxy acet bottles... those oxy bottles are a joke

[wdrzal]

Regarding Oxy-Fuel torches, I was thinking of getting a Smith little torch and using that with disposable oxygen and mapp bottles. http://www.littletorch.com/kits.html

That may be cheaper for you.

IMO Some like smith ,I think they are too small,buy a small combination torch that way you can braze and(change torch head) then cut steel if you ever need too. plus disposable bottles are very costly.

[Sgrios]

Yes, I do remember that comment. I also have a set of old yellow jacket manifold gauges. Was just trying to get some input, I'd like to get a gauge set for the main refrigerant I'm using. It isn't a big deal though.

US - Michigan, University of Michigan dorm room to be exact.
Thanks Teyber =).

[yngndrw]

I was under the impression that it would be cheaper than the normal fuel-air disposable setups as you would need to heat the joint for less time saving both brazing and purging costs. The disposable bottles are also easier to get hold of and of course less dangerous than Acetylene.

I was going to use a large propane tank (Very cheap) and the disposable oxygen bottles to save money. (Still more powerful that just Mapp.)

You sure that size of torch would be too small ? I was unsure about that but assumed it would be fine. (I heard that you just needed the small tips with the full-size setups.)

Oh well I thought it would save a few people money, worth the thought. :P (I'm glad you mentioned your concern, I was about to order one tonight.)

[teyber]

gotcha... you gave metric measurements and said u of m so i thought you were form university of maastricht, i was going to say how cool... i was there this summer :P

yngndrw- would be best to use disposable mapp bottles and a refillable oxygen bottle...

[yngndrw]

On what basis do you say that ? To get a refillable oxygen bottle is expensive for me, on the other hand large propane bottles are very cheap.

[teyber]

Those tiny oxygen bottles cost ~ $8 a pop over here and last about 10 minutes. so thats about $5-10 in brazing one stepper evaporator, et cetera. To refil my oxygen cylinder, 80 cubic feet, costs me $18. right now i will show you the comparison. stay tuned for a pic

reed

edit- camera dead.

[yngndrw]

Are you sure about the 10min ? I heard that these bottles lasted 30-45min: http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=194

Either way, you also have to consider regulator cost and bottle rental, not to mention that BOC needs you to have a company etc. (As far as I know ?)

[Sgrios]

Well this is interesting to watch. Let me know what you end up doing yngndrw.

[yngndrw]

I will be sure to let you know. I'll ask Smith if their torch would be up to the job or not as I am pretty sure that it would be. Sure you wouldn't be able to braze a join in 0.5 seconds, but 1 second is acceptable right ?

I'll also look into getting refillable tanks, but I think those disposable ones contain 110 liters which doesn't sound bad for £17. Shame that my mains gas pressure isn't high enough to use directly in an oxy-fuel torch, as that would reduce costs even more.

I should get some sleep - I'll probably have a reply off Smith in the morning.

[Sgrios]

Teyber, would you be interested in sharing where your getting your Condensers? Are they from the US? Sadly Under-The-Ice isn't selling anything in the way of Condensers anymore.

[teyber]

no condenser source here...

yngndrw- i would guess the smith little torch is great for brazing 1/8"-1/2" pipe and with some help evaps... but saying it can't weld/cut.

[Sgrios]

Wonder who would be interested if I did a condenser run..

Your takes on this condenser Teyber?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Condenser-for-Refrigeration-Phase-Change-CPU-Cooling_W0QQitemZ330244420418QQcmdZViewItem?_trksi d=p3286.m20.l1116

[teyber]

oops- i have no small condenser source for a smallish build like a nf11fx which i was assuming you were talkign about. Those are good for a 1/2hp rotary- 3/4hp rotary or so. the seller of that condenser is detroitac which you see around this forum :)

[Sgrios]

Yeah, I'm trying to find a source of condensers, for SS NF11FX build(s).

[wdrzal]

no condenser source here...

yngndrw- i would guess the smith little torch is great for brazing 1/8"-1/2" pipe and with some help evaps... but saying it can't weld/cut.

Correct ,it will braze small stuff but someday you may need more heat or say you want a combination torch so you can cut of a rusty muffler clamp or bolt or cut a piece of steel. just can't do it with those small "jewelry torches" thats who primely buys them jewelers .

I'll tke some picks of different size torches tomorrow if I don't forget.

[Sgrios]

@Anyone or Teyber - Arguably, would you say the best SS Condenser we can get our hands on currently would be the, Cold ice deluxe condenser at 45e?

[teyber]

the euro conversion makes it ~ $70+ a lot to ship if im correct. A little too much for me :P

[yngndrw]

Correct ,it will braze small stuff but someday you may need more heat or say you want a combination torch so you can cut of a rusty muffler clamp or bolt or cut a piece of steel. just can't do it with those small "jewelry torches" thats who primely buys them jewelers .

I'll tke some picks of different size torches tomorrow if I don't forget.
Ah I see, the pictures should be helpful. Can you (Or anyone) suggest a torch which is comfortable to hold and of good quality ? (Best to have the valves at the top or bottom ? (I heard bottom to stop them heating up ..)

I can only hope that the disposable oxygen bottles provide enough pressure / flow to work with a bigger torch. Oh yes, would an Acetylene regulator with a "CGA 510" connection fit onto a standard BBQ propane bottle ?

I understand that this is starting to go a bit off topic, but I'm trying to find a decent torch setup which saves us all some money.

I was looking at: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380060856143

[wdrzal]

you can't use a acet tip with propane, the mixing valve & tip must be designed/sized to get the correct propane/o2 ratio,especially the cutting tip

Gases has different densities thus different flow rates are needed.



acet/o2 torches don't say for propane use also. some can be modified to use propane or natural gas


you better start doing far more research and not on forums.

[yngndrw]

Well I was basing that off this: http://www.littletorch.com/help.html#fuelgas

Although it's for a much smaller torch, I assumed it would be the same when it was scaled up. I also remember seeing some Ebay auctions state that their torches can be used with other fuel gasses as well.

I'll bear that in mind.

Edit: This is starting to get a bit far from the OP's topic, so I started a new thread:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201352

[Sgrios]

the euro conversion makes it ~ $70+ a lot to ship if im correct. A little too much for me :P

I was thinking about buying 20 units plus in hopes of getting a bulk price. I'll have to get in contact with him and find out.

[Sgrios]

I was looking at the Vacuum Techniques Sticky
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102656&highlight=vacuum

I don't quiet understand how this tool works to reduce vacuum times, the Sticky did not shed much light for me either. Could anyone explain how the Yellow Jacket 18975 4-IN-1 Ball Valve Tool works in short?

Do the 4 IN 1 Ball Valve tools hook up to the Manifold gauge set, then the lines to the 1/4" side port? I think I have it reversed..

[Xeon th MG Pony]

you can't use a acet tip with propane, the mixing valve & tip must be designed/sized to get the correct propane/o2 ratio,especially the cutting tip

Gases has different densities thus different flow rates are needed.



acet/o2 torches don't say for propane use also. some can be modified to use propane or natural gas


you better start doing far more research and not on forums.

Apperantly so do you! I'll let you think about how ya put yer foot in mouth on that one!

As to OP

With the Smith series yes you can use either mapp, Propane, Or acetylen just the regulators need to be differant.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

I was looking at the Vacuum Techniques Sticky
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102656&highlight=vacuum

I don't quiet understand how this tool works to reduce vacuum times, the Sticky did not shed much light for me either. Could anyone explain how the Yellow Jacket 18975 4-IN-1 Ball Valve Tool works in short?

Do the 4 IN 1 Ball Valve tools hook up to the Manifold gauge set, then the lines to the 1/4" side port? I think I have it reversed..

As pressure goes lower the tiniest restriction in flow is multiplied, thus remove the schrader valve reduces the restriction to the pump.