chiller build

[teyber]

hey!

i am going to start a chiller very soon and since this will be my first chiller ill have lots of questions :p: this needs to hold ~ 300w at 15c.
the parts i have picked out so far are only nf11fx and a large condenser and i don't yet have but i have found a very nice looking thermostat for ~ $50. -

i still need to figure out resevoir and evaporator. my first thought was just use a plate HX but im thinking brazing a copper box together then running tubing in the box which will serve as the evaporator but i may do 1/2" with 3/16" inside for the evaporator and then submerge that into a home-built resevoir. everything will be internal and cased and will most likely use two laing d5 pumps.

Considering a SLHX but would like general opinion on this first
Also need to figure out the metering device. i chatted with piotres and he said he has had problems holding a load with a cap tube. This unit will be pretty much 24/7 so a long pull down doesn't matter too much... but unit must hold ~300w not including water and pump.

ill keep you guys updated, id love to hear from you guys that have build a couple chillers all the recommendations and problems you have had.

reed

[EvoCarlos]

cant wait to see your out come with the chiller teyber gl :up: i'll be wacthing this space :)

[Postal Dude]

Go with the PlateHX idea. And a decent sized reservoir for load handling.

Not really a good example but the platehx in my system froze a pint of water in about 20 seconds. And then took over an hour to come out lol.

There is alot of surface area and efficiency in them, it serves as your evaporator aswell as having the liquid run through it. Put a decent sized insulated res next to it and your good to go.

Have you decided on what gas your going to use?

Holding 300W at 15c shouldnt be that much of a problem with a decent sized condenser comp combination

[KaptCrunch]

teyber

whats the compressor spec's

134a gas?

[Xeon th MG Pony]

10feet of coiled 3/8ths makes for a very lovely evap, you can use two 5 foot lengths super imposed on each other to give perallel circuits or such.

[teyber]

carlos- cheers!

postal dude- thanks for the advice!

the reason im not wanting to use a PHX is for space constraints... i want to somehow have a combination resevoir/ evaporator as the resevoir will have to be internal. I really hope i can get away with r134a for capacity's sake and the lower discharge pressures will allow me to use a quieter fan (do not mistake- not crappy fan... but i won't be using the 300cfm fans i had planned for rotaries :P )

kaptcrunch- hey! danfoss nf11fx, sorry the label is pealed a little bit...
http://rc.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/literature/manuals/06/nf11fx_steel_r134a_115v_60hz_12-2005_ed402g122.pdf

xeon- what do you mean imposed on each other? like 2 evaporators one coiled tightly inside the next? also how do you think coiled tubing will serve as a evaporator when chilling a resevoir, rather then having tubing inside tubing as a hx?

i ordered the TEV yesterday... its a 1/4 ton r404a, i hope it works :/

Reed

[Postal Dude]

To have a combination Evap and Res. Get your self a cooler box or something similar. Cut out two ridges for pipes to go in. then fab yourself a spiral from 3/8" copper pipe like Xeon says. You can have it go in to the bottom of the tank and spiral back up and out. Fill up with coolant of your choice. Put a submersible pump in the middle of the coil and have inlet and outlet comin out the side of the cooler box. Job done.

Alternatively have two spiralled coils submersed in liquid and have one of them be for water (to save the pump in there with power lines and such

[teyber]

my original plan was to braze a copper box together and have a in/out on opposite ends, then a t-line from top to top of case, then drain line on bottom, then coil ~ 10' of 3/8" copper in there and have only refrigerant in the 3/8" cooling the liquid in the resevoir. anyone have objections?

[wdrzal]

my original plan was to braze a copper box together and have a in/out on opposite ends, then a t-line from top to top of case, then drain line on bottom, then coil ~ 10' of 3/8" copper in there and have only refrigerant in the 3/8" cooling the liquid in the resevoir. anyone have objections?

How long to make such a item and @ what cost as opposed to a ready made heat exchanger? :shrug:

[[XC] Lead Head]

I can't see 10 feet of copper tubing in a tank taking any less space then a small plate heat exchanger reservoir right next to it:confused:

[teyber]

Lead Head;3263422']I can't see 10 feet of copper tubing in a tank taking any less space then a small plate heat exchanger reservoir right next to it:confused:

cost.... cost....

edit-

think of a square for a resevoir... then a plate hx plus insulation, say ~ 1" on each side. my plate hx's are ~ off top of my head, 3" wide, 2" long, and i think ~8" tall. so it would be the resevoir with a 5"x4"x10" box plus wood, so say ~ .5" on each dimensions, next to the resevoir or just the resevoir with the evaporator inside. this unit will be cased and can't be HUGE... ~ 12" wide, 22" long, and w/e heigth... (resevoir will problably go vertically above compressor)

walt- tbh not sure... i would guess ~ $50 for a already made one, for me i would guess 1-2 hours not including brazing and $10 in copper. worth it to me :/

[Postal Dude]

To hold 300w at 15c you may not even need a large reservoir. You may have trouble keeping the temperature that high. Depending on how you do your build obviously. The good thing about having a large res is that you can pull the water down to say 13-17c and then have the compressor shut off and it would absorb alot of heat before the compresor would need to come back on. if you dont mind the compressor running constantly, a huge res is not necessary.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

carlos- cheers!

postal dude- thanks for the advice!

the reason im not wanting to use a PHX is for space constraints... i want to somehow have a combination resevoir/ evaporator as the resevoir will have to be internal. I really hope i can get away with r134a for capacity's sake and the lower discharge pressures will allow me to use a quieter fan (do not mistake- not crappy fan... but i won't be using the 300cfm fans i had planned for rotaries :P )

kaptcrunch- hey! danfoss nf11fx, sorry the label is pealed a little bit...
http://rc.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/literature/manuals/06/nf11fx_steel_r134a_115v_60hz_12-2005_ed402g122.pdf

xeon- what do you mean imposed on each other? like 2 evaporators one coiled tightly inside the next? also how do you think coiled tubing will serve as a evaporator when chilling a resevoir, rather then having tubing inside tubing as a hx?

i ordered the TEV yesterday... its a 1/4 ton r404a, i hope it works :/

Reed

We''ll a barrel type evap that can be dismantled is easier to clean! Tube in tube and plate Hx can only be chemicaly cleaned.

All so barrel type is harder to freeze up and block!

[Buckeye]

You just gave Teyber another idea for Evaps... barrel type evap.

I can just see his machines making one now !

[teyber]

We''ll a barrel type evap that can be dismantled is easier to clean! Tube in tube and plate Hx can only be chemicaly cleaned.

All so barrel type is harder to freeze up and block!

barrell type... what do you mean?

i was not thinking tube in tube as much as 3/8" tube as the evaporator coiled inside the resevoir... hoping this would work :up:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Barrel is the tubes making long bends then put in pvc pipe water flowes through the pvc

[teyber]

finally got the ball rolling again here.
going to play with a cpev, so ive built a small RX and will have a sight glass. If i have problems ill swap to a TEV, or maybe just cap tube. Coil is on the way, thanks to ultralow and mytekcontrols SO much for the help with the solenoid parts :) can't thank you guys enough!

Compressor just started priming it. it will be flat black unless customer wants otherwise.

Only thing brazed, and i will braze until all pipe work is complete, is the RX. It was too hard to get it laid without the RX brazed. Also, i can't really pipe the hot gas line until the bottum is brazed, too hard to lay it out so i included a picture of it not attached to the system. The pipes are held by swags and painters tape. of course they won't be straight.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2785.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2787.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2788.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2789.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2790.jpg

ive spent all last night and today so far on the piping. Im pleased with the pipework so far.

cheers

[EvoCarlos]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2785.jpg


reed i love it
it look very good and really nicely laid out
but i dont think that blue tape will hold the pressure j/k lol :rofl:

[teyber]

Thanks dood :) yeah painters tape doesn't make a very good seal. duct tape maybe? :p:

well guys something incredible just happened. Nobody mess with me, im strong enough to rip apart thick brass.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2791.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/?action=view&current=DSCN2791.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2792.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/?action=view&current=DSCN2792.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/th_DSCN2793.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/?action=view&current=DSCN2793.jpg)

I was screwing in the 1/4" flare nut and BOOM! snapped the CPEV in two. how the.. what the.... i don't know. ill look around for another CPEV or use the TEV in the picture i posted. the tev is a 1/4 ton so hopefully it has the capacity needed for the build...

[ultralo1]

All that pretty work and a 1/2 tee crimped down to 3/8?????

[KaptCrunch]

well guys something incredible just happened. Nobody mess with me, im strong enough to rip apart thick brass.

I was screwing in the 1/4" flare nut and BOOM! snapped the CPEV in two. how the.. what the.... i don't know. ill look around for another CPEV or use the TEV in the picture i posted. the tev is a 1/4 ton so hopefully it has the capacity needed for the build...

sure you didn't drink the blood of incredible hulk's when he dropped it in soft drink factory

when tighten brass once contacted no more then 1/8 turn 1/4 max on fittings

[teyber]

All that pretty work and a 1/2 tee crimped down to 3/8?????
yeah no kidding!

You got some 1/4" tees? ill pay you retail + shipping. My johnstone hasn't carried them for about 2 months now :shrug:. they are actually 3/8" t's crimped to 1/4. pm me if ya do :up:

BTW do you think i could submerge the cpev in water and try to braze in a small 3/16" line or so? im sure the joint wouldn't look so hot but i think its worth a try.
sure you didn't drink the blood of incredible hulk's when he dropped it in soft drink factory

when tighten brass once contacted no more then 1/8 turn 1/4 max on fittings

no kidding? i usually don't work with flares so i wanted to get it really tight.

Hope the txv works... maybe if customer is willing pick up another cpev retail with a smaller capacity... The one that broke i got new, but a good deal on ebay.

cheers:up:

[Sgrios]

The build looks great so far Teyber. Your pipe work has come such a long way, I'm very impressed. Simply beautiful. :)

[teyber]

thanks jeff! definitely appreciate it :)

new batch of pics. All piping is done and the suction line is brazed. I am not sure if the TEV is superheat adjustable... gah. Well im going to try it and see how it goes. Still need paint and oil for compressor. ill get it later.

Only thing left is two 1/4" t lines which i just paid for, hopefully they get here later this week then i will braze everything together. If i have time today maybe ill make the small resevoir. Also, do i get a patience award on the suction line!? used 15% btw. what a hassle, i sanded forever!

please note im using random bits of plastic to hold everything up, its not going to be parallel until its brazed. Also, i couldn't hold up the solenoid line for the picture so i put the solenoid line towards the rear just for the pic.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2795.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2797.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2798.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2799.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/DSCN2801.jpg

cheers

[Buckeye]

Thats very sweet Teyber !! :clap:

I can't wait to see what this puppy can do :)

[DetroitAC]

I am not sure if the TEV is superheat adjustable... gah.

They are all adjustable, the bottom hex on the txv is just a cover, under it is a shaft with flats on it, that's the superheat bias screw.

You put one wrench on the hex above it as a backup and another wrench on the lowest hex. When you put it back together make sure the knife edge metal seal and seat are clean, and preferably oily.

[teyber]

Thats very sweet Teyber !! :clap:

I can't wait to see what this puppy can do :)

thanks dude! :up:

detroitac- I assumed that also but i am having some trouble getting the cap off. is it a thread or? im scared im going to snap the thing taking the cap off, just like i did with the cpev:p:

cheers and thanks for the advice:up:

[wdrzal]

You can fix that CPEV, mill or file the stub face flat, (so it looks,well,not broken:p:) then insert a copper stub and braze.You may have to drill to enlage opeaning to match O.D. of tube . That's dependant on I.D. of broken valve stub. The insertion depth should be approx. the O.D. of the tube used.

Also ask Santa for a set of Line wrenches,by the looks of of some of your flare nuts you need a set. ;)



Yes: the caps are threaded ,remember........righty-thighty (clockwise).....Lefty-loosy (counter clockwise).......Got it :up::D...........Not too tight or you'll break it. LOL. :ROTF:

[DetroitAC]

detroitac- I assumed that also but i am having some trouble getting the cap off. is it a thread or? im scared im going to snap the thing taking the cap off, just like i did with the cpev:p:

cheers and thanks for the advice:up:
I'd leave it alone until you think you need to adjust it. The superheat setting may work just fine.

[teyber]

You can fix that CPEV, mill or file the stub face flat, (so it looks,well,not broken:p:) then insert a copper stub and braze.You may have to drill to enlage opeaning to match O.D. of tube . That's dependant on I.D. of broken valve stub. The insertion depth should be approx. the O.D. of the tube used.

Also ask Santa for a set of Line wrenches,by the looks of of some of your flare nuts you need a set. ;)



Yes: the caps are threaded ,remember........righty-thighty (clockwise).....Lefty-loosy (counter clockwise).......Got it :up::D...........Not too tight or you'll break it. LOL. :ROTF:
hey!

someday ill give that a shot. Ill just use a txv or a cap tube as ive got them all on my shelf.

Yes i do need some wrenches, for 1/4" and 1/2" flares. im using a clamping wrench right now.

Detroit- will do

also i realized... There is no way (i think?) to get the solenoid i have to open when there is no power in the unit (i.e. let the pressures equilize when its off). Defiantly a reason to use cap tube. Ill think all day about it but i may end up using 7-8' of .04" cap tube :shrug:

Cheers

[Naja002]

Nice. Sub'ed....:up:

[EliTE22]

very nice work:clap:, what color r u paint the comp:D

[teyber]

thanks guys! :)

elite- just flat black.

Its all brazed but leaking. i brazed it over a week ago but still havn't found the leak, im fairly certain its the sight glass.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/frontcorner.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/rearview.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/sidelow.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/teyber/topdown.jpg

[Jor3lBR]

Now thats a slick looking chiller Tey! Keep the beautiful pics coming.

[runmc]

TXV bulb should be near the exit of the HX ;) but it looks great Reed

[teyber]

thanks jor!

ron: yes it is, however the length of the HX would have been hard to do it right at hx out :( (without doing it verticle) so not ideal, but we will see how it works

[teyber]

havn't touched this in a couple days as my leak tester wasn't giving me too much love, well i should rephrase that. soapy water wasn't giving me to much love.

i had leaks.

i originally thought the high side was leaking into the low side or vice versa. i brazed the low side ROCK solid. but i forgot the service port... doh.

so then my leak detector pointed me to the sight glass... if these things get even remotely warm they start to leak (er, when brazing that is. even with a wet sock around it i guess it still overheated). frustrating. but soapy water didnt' show bubbles on it.

today i realized ive been battling this for about 2 weeks, time to put it in the bathtub and sure enough my sight glass and service port joints were leaking. Gah! at least i found them. really hope i can find time tonight to fix it... i feel like i have been in the piping stages of this too long.

So ill do a 7 day leak test period and ill try do do some electronics in the meantime.

Cheers

[teyber]

this damn child play

I have been fighting with this unit for about 2.5 weeks now with leaks. The brute 2 i just got back that was "repaired" cough, all 4 valves leak into each other. the vacuum pump port wasn't capped so i am pretty sure this is it. large pressure drop and i was going insane as there were no bubbles..

so wish me luck now. thank god for the lifetime warrnety on the brute :)

[teyber]

chiller is leak free for 7 days, currently vacuuming. i need an adapter for 3/8" female to 1/2" male so i can use the 4 valve and get a quick test run to make sure everything works. then plumb a loop and find 2 waterblocks so i can test it at 425w and see what she can do.