* * * Frozen Copper - The Journey to Subzero * * *

[one_servant]

The time has come! After installing several heat pumps, reading scores of refrigeration books, studying the experienced builders on this forum for over a year, and testing several idealistic prototypes the time has finally come for me to undertake my own computer refrigeration project. My hope is that this work log, or blog, will help others when they get ready to take the plunge in this science. I have to send a special shout out to my fellow soldier Forgotten Ronin as I see him as the next phase builder. His masterful skill will make this discipline easy. :up:

In this work log you’ll see me commit many mistakes and learn a few lessons the hard way but I invite you to join me in this journey and guide me when I go astray. I don’t have any delusions that I’m some sort of “master engineer” and I’m open to all suggestions and criticisms of my work. I approach this project with great humility and a quiet confidence. Undoubtedly, the design I’m going to choose may not fit many of your personal “artistic” preferences but when possible you’ll be the most helpful when you can help me with the science behind the build and not the mere appearance of the product.

I hope to make this thread as much of a photo journal as possible so you can have the most information about this process as I can provide. It’s like they a say, “a picture is worth a 1,000 words.” If at any point in this build you feel that a photo needs to be taken from a particular vantage point that I have missed please feel free to request the photo you’re interested in and I’ll do my best to get it posted promptly. After all, I’m going to need as much help as I can get if I am going to be able to see this through to completion.

Beginning with the end in mind

I try to have an exit strategy for everything I start in life and this build will be no exception. The end goal of this build is to have a case that houses two single stage units. One system will be used to cool the CPU and the other system will be used cool the GPU. I know this could be done by utilizing a “two head” system with a single compressor but this computer is going to be built not only for performance but also for show. Indeed, function will come before form, but form will not be neglected. I hope to find some decent middle ground so this computer ends up like a Porsche Carrera 4 Turbo…not the fastest car at the track but still capable of stomping 98% of what it encounters on the street while still looking like a chiseled masterpiece. I want this machine to have the fit and finish of a touring LAN party rig that has as much show as it does go. :D

The Lab

As builders have done in the past I’m going to start by showing you my humble workshop where this system is going to come to life. My wife calls this place “The Lab.” The photos depict a simple shed behind my house that I constructed for building firearms, computers, and storing a few tools. You may notice that the shed is recessed in the ground in such a way that to enter the shed you have to take a few steps down. This was done because my neighborhood doesn’t allow sheds to go but a few feet above the fence-line…thus to have more storage I had to build down instead of up. I installed a heat pump in the shed to keep me cool in the hot southern summers of North Carolina.

I'll work to get some more photos up soon. I plan on shooting the case this system will utilize. Additionally, I'll try to post in this thread several times a week. I want to thank you all in advance for your help up to this point and I'll see you in the forums. :comp10:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2592.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2593.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2594.jpg

My workbench

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2595.jpg

The generator powers my home when a hurricane hits my costal town. I simply plug it into the wall as I designed it to power the entire house from the shed. The exhaust is piped out a window.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2596.jpg

You guessed it! Those red linesets are direct from Poland courtesy of Peter. His work is always top notch. I didn't dare consider creating my own evaporator for my first build. I don't have access to a proper lathe or the training to use it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2597.jpg

A few supplies for the coming build

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2598.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2599.jpg

[n00b 0f l337]

Well god damn, thats a nice setup indeed.

[[XC] gomeler]

You are out of shop towels :p:

[n00b 0f l337]

You are out of shop towels
Cleaning up all the blood from his wife... errr.. ex-wife, after she saw all the things he bought ;)

[one_servant]

gomeler;3236537']You are out of shop towels :p:

First thing I thought when I saw that photo too. Time to fill 'er up.... :D

[DaMulta]

Does "The Lab" have heat and A/c?

[[XC] gomeler]

Does "The Lab" have heat and A/c?

"I installed a heat pump in the shed to keep me cool in the hot southern summers of North Carolina."

Heating just means you need to crank up the clocks a bit and fire up the spare cascade :yepp:

[philbrown23]

wow subzero porn nice!

[mike8913]

i'd like to do something like this, too bad college is so expensive..balls

[one_servant]

Does "The Lab" have heat and A/c?

Yes sir, in the winter time I get the heat pump to change duty. :)

[kayl]

nice work shop there one servant, looks like a cascade is in the build ;)

[teyber]

i like those ebay slhx's :)

what refrigerant is that? looks like r22?

everybody hates on us with vacuum gauges :p: i think its a great thing to have. you will not regret that purchase :)

Wheres your purging setup?

i love it :) you have inspired me to clean my garage when i get home :)

[FLuxUs]

pretty decent workshop indeed. :yepp: cant wait to see all the goodies in action! i have the same problem as mike... but on the other hand i have got access to an amazing workshop at the art college. :D the only trouble is when you get into the situation of explaining what you are doing, as they dont like to see you doing stuff that hasnt got anything to do with the work at college.:rolleyes: at the same time with a bit of intelligence you can justify nearly everything in the art world which is almost like having a green card :D

[sjg0]

Holy Sht.

That is super nice. :up:
*dreaming* one day my garage will look like that * :dj:

Jw: What kind of measures would you take to prevent flooding in there during a hurricane?

[wdrzal]

Where's the fold down bed, bet the wife threatened to burn down your shop many times LOL.

On a positive note, Not everyone is going to be a engineer but just learning basic plumbing,mechanical processes and electrical repair (that every home owner encounters)will save you enough money over your life time to enjoy some finner things in life. Not only do you save money every time something breaks, your usually the most popular guy in the neighborhood. Knowdlege has a value,don't forget that..
It really sucks to pay someone 150.00 to fix something you could have did for 20.00 in 30 minutes

[FLuxUs]

very true wdrzal!

[one_servant]

what refrigerant is that? looks like r22?

Yes sir, that's good ol' R22 for my typical heat pump installations. It's amazing how far that tank has taken me! Thankfully most of the units I've installed have come mostly charged from the factory. :up:

everybody hates on us with vacuum gauges i think its a great thing to have. you will not regret that purchase

Yeah man, I have to say that I love that little gauge. No guesswork involved with our little friend....not to mention that it's fun to watch the microns drop quickly during an initial vacuum.

Wheres your purging setup?

I still don't have one yet. I need to drag myself downtown and get a tank of Nitrogen but I've been so busy with other real life junk that I haven't taken the time to do it. It's definitely on the list.

Jw: What kind of measures would you take to prevent flooding in there during a hurricane?

When I dug out the shed a put in a very intricate set of French drains that take care of the hydrostatic pressure that builds up when it rains. I also utilized a method that Canadians have been successful with for years with regard to building an inexpensive basement. I have concrete board fastened to a 2x4 frame and a very sophisticated rain barrier sealant surrounding the interior and exterior of the subterranean level. When it rains the French drains shed water to daylight about 50 feet from the Lab.

The Lab is also in a yard that sits well about the 100 year flood plain....but when the 500 year flood hits that Lab is going to be a swimming pool! :yepp:

Where's the fold down bed, bet the wife threatened to burn down your shop many times LOL.

Yes sir, I actually considered it. Thankfully the wife has been pretty reasonable with regard to my time in the Lab…but if I ever get kicked out of the house I have a place to go. ;)

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope the knowledge I take from this will aid me for years down the road as practical items fail around the house. :)

Here's a peek at the case courtesy of Mountain Mods

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2600.jpg

Of course it's not all together yet but I think I'll find a way to stuff everything in there somehow...the question I have for myself is this: Will I be able to make it look good at the same time?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2601.jpg

You're going to see a lot of this. Here the case sits on the rolling platform in the middle of my Lab. With the case possitioned on this platform I can easily move it about and work on the system from most any angle. :up:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2602-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/HPIM2602.jpg

[sjg0]

Wow that looks amazing. Lot of fan ports though, personally i dont dig my computer sounding like a 747 preparing for takeoff, but thats just me.

I assume this will house your phase-change and your pc? Im interested to see how you will set up internal mounting brackets and such.

Cool stuff! :up:

[piotres]

This is the cleanest workshop I've ever seen :eek: also tools inside shed are VERY nice .

It's a paradise for phase-change builder :D.

I see some familiar red sleeve tubes there ;).

[WesM63]

Awesome Shed indeed!

My "Shop" is a 20x24 1car garage. Not quite as clean either ;)

[wdrzal]

I can already see the need for a addition on the "Lab" :D

maybe sub-levels 2,3 & 4 :eek:

[mike8913]

yea, go umbrella corp. stile, dig down and build big . . . and then create a mutant flesh eating virus...errr....refrigerator.

[one_servant]

Wow that looks amazing. Lot of fan ports though, personally i dont dig my computer sounding like a 747 preparing for takeoff, but thats just me.

I assume this will house your phase-change and your pc? Im interested to see how you will set up internal mounting brackets and such.

Well I'm going to try to use the quietest fans on the market for this case but when you get right down to it there's just no keeping 15 (yes, fifteen)120mm fans "silent"!! :shocked: I sure hope it's bearable. My bud, Forgotten Ronin, has a Mountain Mods case too and that sucker is a real presence when he fires it up. She's only got about (I'm guessing) 10 to 12 120mm fans but I think he went for real air movers since he was going with a fancy water cooling setup. I'm not sure. :shrug:

Yes sir, this case will house both phase and computer parts all in a single box. To be quite frank, I'm pretty interested in how the heck I'm going to create the mounting brackets I'm going to need too!! :ROTF: I'll dig deep into my creative resources for this one...

My "Shop" is a 20x24 1car garage.

Man, I wish I had that much square footage. I'll have to wait until I build my next home for that kinda room. Rock on man. :)

I can already see the need for a addition on the "Lab"

maybe sub-levels 2,3 & 4

Okay Walt, this is going to crack you up and make you shake your head at the same time: When I first got my shovel and started digging the Lab I had plans to go down 10 feet and make a real sublevel to the shop. This level would have been for storing my firearms and for other "top secret" building projects but when I started doing the math I figured that it would bust my budget at $5,500.00 whereas I built what you see for just under $2,000.00. Man....it sure would have been cool though. :yepp:

__________________________________________________ _______________

Okay, back to the build! But first here's a picture of the heat pump that some folks have been asking about...well the evaporator anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2618.jpg

Yes sir, I was buring the midnight oil as I got this build rolling Friday night!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2640.jpg

I'll start this post by showing some photos of the GPU cooling system. Here's a shot of the compressor. She's little but will be more than enough BTU power to move the heat off of my smokin' GPU.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2605.jpg

Here's a shot of the condensor for the video card system. It came from the factory with the large, flanking fins that you see on either side. Note: not the fins that are for heat transfer but the casing fins. Due to their large size they had to be removed to fit in my case will all my other stuff. It's amazing how quickly space disappears when you start planning for all you'll need.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2624.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2623.jpg

Here I am going to work with my trusty Dremil...let the sparks fly and always wear face/eye protection.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2625.jpg

Here you can see how many cutting wheels it took to go through a single side of the condensor. Man, shaving is hard work! ;) However, it only took me 4 or 5 minutes, including blade changes, to cut through the whole side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2627.jpg

Some process cutting photos...halfway done...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2628.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2629.jpg

After the sides were cut down it was time for some good ol' grinding to smooth things out and give each side a nice bevel. I later cut off the protrusion you see on the footing as decreasing the condensor's footprint was helpful in arranging the hardware.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2632.jpg

Okay, you've been waiting for it so here it is! Here's a shot of some of the key components being arranged in the case. I've played with numerous configurations as I've given the plumbing careful consideration. What you see so far is close to how things will look when mounted. Notice the cut/shaped condensor in some of the photos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2617.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2619.jpg

Here's a great shot of the front condensor. This condensor will be hit with 6 120mm fans directly and is the primary condensor for the CPU cooling system. It was salvaged from a window air conditioning unit like the one that NoL used in his cascade build.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2621.jpg

Bird's eye view from directly overhead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2620.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2634.jpg

Here we see the GPU condensor flanked by the compressors and cooled by 4 120mm fans. Unfortunately, only two of the fans will pull air directly over the condensor. I'm counting on pressurized air from the front of the case aiding in keeping this condensor cool.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2633.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2633.jpg

And finally, here's a quick look at the desuperheater construction for the GPU system. I simply locked this filter-dryer in my vise and started bending. I was very careful to put only the slightest pressure on the filter-dryer. It worked out beautifully. Before you say it I must add that I know a desuperheater doesn't need 32,454 coils...but man...they sure are pretty when they have 'em. :D Oh, and this desuperheater will be stationed immediately in front of a 120mm fan so that should help a bit with cooling things off before the gas reaches the condensor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2636.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2637.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2644.jpg

That's all I have for you tonight as the wife is beckoning some family time. I'll get another update on sometime tomorrow if time permits and at the very latest I'll get another post up on Monday.

[sjg0]

Amazing.

Are you sure that your "shed" isnt a small house?! Speakers?! PAINTED Drywall??!!

Anyway, fantastic stuff man, mind me asking where you get your parts?

[n00b 0f l337]

Those condensers are nice, but too low a fin per inch for me.

[one_servant]

Amazing.

Are you sure that your "shed" isnt a small house?! Speakers?! PAINTED Drywall??!!

Anyway, fantastic stuff man, mind me asking where you get your parts?

Thanks man! :) Yeah, my Shed/Lab is kind of a small house. My brother and I have a mantra when it comes to most tasks in life: "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing." I stayed pretty true to that when I built this sucker. She's even insulated with R-19 and the I custom fit the drywall around the primary ventilator...incase any noxious fumes fill the place...which happens frequently. And with regard to the speakers...I have to rock out while I get my build on.

@Adam: You're right...it's not very dense but thankfully she's still oversized. Thankfully the fin density is better on the CPU condensor. :up:

[sjg0]

Thanks man! :) Yeah, my Shed/Lab is kind of a small house. My brother and I have a mantra when it comes to most tasks in life: "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing." I stayed pretty true to that when I built this sucker. She's even insulated with R-19 and the I custom fit the drywall around the primary ventilator...incase any noxious fumes fill the place...which happens frequently. And with regard to the speakers...I have to rock out while I get my build on.

@Adam: You're right...it's not very dense but thankfully she's still oversized. Thankfully the fin density is better on the CPU condensor. :up:

Haha! nice! :up:

Yea but seriously, where do you get your stuff?
Actually I need to know where to get a rubber mounting kit for the compressor! I have been looking for aBOUT 3 1/2 hours now and its making me pretty mad :mad::mad::mad:

[wdrzal]

They still have brick and motor stores......There usually not on a main coroner,they don't have neon lights or Golden Arches, but they are in almost every town and certainly every large town & city.

Usually a nondescript 75 year old building on a back street with a sign you can only read with 15/15 vision from 10 feet away. They usually don't seek the general publics business but trade professionals. You need to seek them out and make some friends who will help you with your needs.

[sjg0]

They still have brick and motor stores......There usually not on a main coroner,they don't have neon lights or Golden Arches, but they are in almost every town and certainly every large town & city.

Usually a nondescript 75 year old building on a back street with a sign you can only read with 15/15 vision from 10 feet away. They usually don't seek the general publics business but trade professionals. You need to seek them out and make some friends who will help you with your needs.

brick? mortar? :confused::confused:

... hmmm, yes i seem to vaguely remember this "brick & mortar". As i recall, last i was in one, i had to be airlifted out of there after I asked about pricing. :shakes:

I dont have any friends. :para:
....

[wdrzal]

well you need to educate yourself about refrigeration so you can at least ask intelligent questions. A totally noob sticks out like a sore thumb so they quadruple the price because they know 2/3 of what you buy your going to try to return blaming a defective part,which you probably made defective because of inexperience.

So hit the books, not the forums.

[one_servant]

Sig0,

I completely intended to answer your question earlier but I forgot when I got busy with some other thoughts. Anyway, 90% of my parts come from eBay. The rest I get from Ron at www.under-the-ice.com and a few other small e-tailers. With regard to the compressor feet I found them by using the search string "rubber feet" on eBay. It took a while to find those but there are still some good finds with that search thread. I hope you're able to find them without a problem. :)

[EvoCarlos]

Sig0,

I completely intended to answer your question earlier but I forgot when I got busy with some other thoughts. Anyway, 90% of my parts come from eBay. The rest I get from Ron at www.under-the-ice.com and a few other small e-tailers. With regard to the compressor feet I found them by using the search string "rubber feet" on eBay. It took a while to find those but there are still some good finds with that search thread. I hope you're able to find them without a problem. :)

lol rubber feet and ebay is wrong just wrong

Rubber-Feet (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Adult-Size-Rubber-Duck-Feet-Fancy-Dress-Donald-Duck_W0QQitemZ160274328553QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 160274328553&_trkparms=72%3A1089%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

[loonym]

lol rubber feet and ebay is wrong just wrong

Rubber-Feet (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Adult-Size-Rubber-Duck-Feet-Fancy-Dress-Donald-Duck_W0QQitemZ160274328553QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 160274328553&_trkparms=72%3A1089%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)Those should work :rofl:

[one_servant]

LOL! You'll have to narrow your search with the catigories on the left hand side too. :)

[sjg0]

Haha! nice.

Anyway, I cant find anything on ebay when i serach "rubber feet" or i tried "mounting kit" too.

I did find this though:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/compressors/Danfoss/danfoss.asp

Scroll down a pinch and it should say "Mounting Kit for Danfoss BD Compressors"

Are all mounting kit holes for danfoss compressors the same size? If so, then ill just get that and it should be perfect.

How bout some more pics one_servant!

[Sgrios]

I'd assume No.

Quoted from the link:

"010-1120 $4.95 Mounting Kit for Danfoss BD Compressors"

[teyber]

nice mate!

for the nf11fx a quick sand with 220 to rough it up a bit a sponge, dry, and a black spraypaint i think is in order :) are those the ebay ones? i wish i got some of those...

Great update- we should take notes, lots of NICE QUALITY pics and descriptions :) top notch :)

i really like it. Im confused tho where does the computer stuff go?

If your doing a lot of phase builds for customers DSH like that is a waste... but its yours, copper shipped is like $.8 a foot, if you like the look like most of us do, spending an extra 2-5 dollars on it is worth it IMHO :)

do you know how many inches it is?(the dsh)

can't wait for the next update :)

[one_servant]

Ask and you shall receive! More pictures and more updates. I sure hope I don't exhaust you with too many photos but I really want to blog this thread up for those that don't have as much experience as they would like. Sure, I'm a noob too but I've been reading my refrigeration books and studying the forum for over a year now. I'm really ready for this build. :)

for the nf11fx a quick sand with 220 to rough it up a bit a sponge, dry, and a black spraypaint i think is in order are those the ebay ones? i wish i got some of those...

Yup, that's an eBay salvage special. As soon as I got it I connected it to my Supco 3-n-1 and she started up humming quietly and confidently...which was a huge relief to me. I paid $44.00 to for this Danfoss NF11FX delivered. It looks scuffed up but thankfully she doesn't seem to "rattled".

You're right about the paint!! Yesterday I was sanding them down with 150 grit drywall sandpaper in preparation for their paint jobs. Each system is going to be a different color in the build. The CPU system is going to be painted a metallic blue and the GPU system is going to get a rich British racing metallic green. (photos coming soon!) :D

i really like it. Im confused tho where does the computer stuff go?

The motherboard and other computer components will go on a "shelf" that will be 6 inches from the ceiling of the case. The case is a total of 24 inches tall...this leaves 18 inches of headspace for all of my phase change hardware...man I hope it all fits. :eek:

If your doing a lot of phase builds for customers DSH like that is a waste... but its yours, copper shipped is like $.8 a foot, if you like the look like most of us do, spending an extra 2-5 dollars on it is worth it IMHO

do you know how many inches it is?(the dsh

I'm with you on that 100%! It may be a waste of copper in a typical mass-market situation but I hope this build ends up as a "work of art" more or less. I'll need to measure that desuperheater to really know how long she is...mostly I just made it to fit the space it would occupy.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Courtesy of Under the Ice (www.under-the-ice.com) Ron has sent me these Schrader valves for connecting our manifolds to the system.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2606.jpg

I decided to cut them off shorter to save space in the system...I don't need a long "barb" coming off my system that will give me one more obstacle to work the plumbing around. I took the valves down to about an inch of copper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2607.jpg

Next, we have a little sanding with plumber's sand paper in order to get this part ready for a solid braze. Clearing off all that oxidation and other impurities really makes for a sound fitment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2608.jpg

Here we have another supply from Under the Ice. This flux is specially formulated to handle the high temperatures that we use to braze. The stuff looks like a really deep fudge chocolate ice cream...though I don't recommend you try any. After my serving I couldn't get enough water as the aftertaste was a real disappointment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2609.jpg

Here we have the new valve fitted in the maintenance port of the GPU compressor. The valve core has been removed to prevent the extreme heat from damaging it's fragile components. The cap has been set aside as well as it has a rubber gasket that would melt quickly under the heat this brass will soon encounter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2611.jpg

Here we have the freshly brazed valve on the compressor before any clean up. As you can see my brazing skill is very rudimentary but effective. I don't expect any leaks from these junctions. Notice the oxidation on the brass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2613.jpg

Here you can see that I have mildly polished up the brass and the joint in preparation for paint...not much oxidation left on the brass anymore. :up:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2614.jpg

More updates to come!!

[Duzter]

Looks good. :)

But why are you using flux on copper/copper?

[n00b 0f l337]

Get a wire wheel for a drill, much easier ;)

[one_servant]

Looks good. :)

But why are you using flux on copper/copper?


Thanks man. I'm using the flux because the less oxidation the better in my humble opinion. :hrhr:

Get a wire wheel for a drill, much easier

I've got a few of those sitting around...I'll do that for the next joints. Thanks for the advice Adam. :)

[sjg0]

???

I thought sanding joints like a plumber would is a no-no.
I thought that small copper particle grains could get into compressor and fk it up?

Nice work though!

Is that joint your first-time-braze or had you practiced with other copper pipe before?

[Duzter]

He's only cleaning the pipe, it can be dusted off afterwards. :)

[one_servant]

Yes sir, I wipe it down carefully before the fitting or brazing starts. I just want to get a shinny, "sticky" surface before the heat and silver are applied.

Is that joint your first-time-braze or had you practiced with other copper pipe before?

I have brazed many joints in my typical HVAC work...but the truth be told I did practice on a bag of 90 degree elbows that I picked up from Home Depot for $5 when I was first getting started.

[sjg0]

Yes sir, I wipe it down carefully before the fitting or brazing starts. I just want to get a shinny, "sticky" surface before the heat and silver are applied.



I have brazed many joints in my typical HVAC work...but the truth be told I did practice on a bag of 90 degree elbows that I picked up from Home Depot for $5 when I was first getting started.


I see, so then sanding joints a little IS in fact ok?

How bout more pics!

[n00b 0f l337]

Great way to start, the big pipes offer a good training ground.

[one_servant]

I see, so then sanding joints a little IS in fact ok?

How bout more pics!

Yes sir, the idea is to have pure copper molecules on the surface of your braze for the best adhesion. Of course you can't get absolutely pure but working toward it will create a better joint.

More pictures in the works this evening. :yepp:

[sjg0]

Yes sir, the idea is to have pure copper molecules on the surface of your braze for the best adhesion. Of course you can't get absolutely pure but working toward it will create a better joint.

More pictures in the works this evening. :yepp:

Cool.

How would you purge a joint like that?

[Duzter]

Will be looking forward to see some more pictures. :D

[n00b 0f l337]

On the access? You don't want to burn your hose, I'd purge thru a hose to a separate access valve, with a captueb brazed on the end, and drop it down the hole, or simply from the high side access.

[Duzter]

On the access? You don't want to burn your hose, I'd purge thru a hose to a separate access valve, with a captueb brazed on the end, and drop it down the hole, or simply from the high side access.

You mean the low side acces right? You can't purge through the compressor through the discharge side.

Correct me if I understood you wrong. My technical english is a bit slacky. :shrug:

[n00b 0f l337]

But if you have the rest of the loop brazed up, you can purge thru high into metering device and into the low and compressor ;)

[Duzter]

Makes sense now. ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Or you can just drop another access in the other suction ;)

[Duzter]

That would also be a way of doing it. Depends on how far you've gotten with the piping. :)

[one_servant]

Time for a colorful update!

Okay, I'm not the type of guy that says, "Sure, the standard options will be just fine." No sir, that's not my style if I have the option to mix things up a bit! So here you have it!

I know it won't fit everyone's tastes but thankfully it doesn't have to. I simply couldn't stay with the standard plain Jane Danfoss Black. Don't get me wrong...the black is simply smashing but it just didn't quite light my fire. Thus I present Intel Metallic Blue and GPU Metallic Green. These are just the first few coats so there is still much finishing to be done but I think you'll get the idea. Enjoy the before and after photos that follow.

BEFORE

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2645.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2646.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2647.jpg

AFTER

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2648.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2649.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2650.jpg

BEFORE

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2651.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2652.jpg

AFTER

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2653.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2654.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2657.jpg

Condensor & Side-by-Side Shots

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2655.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2658.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2659.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2660.jpg

[sjg0]

Nice job! Very original!

Personally the paint is a bit too metallic-ey for me, but thats just my opinion.

Why did you not cover the electrical terminals before you painted?

[sjg0]

Oh lol I also noticed you started grinding away at the old paint, did you get all of the paint sanded off completely? or did you just sand that small section and then give up.

Idk, but i think leaving it un-painted would be really cool! like with a brushed-metal type texture.

[n00b 0f l337]

Uh oh, you didn't paint those fins did you?

[vab206]

it looks that way :-/

[one_servant]

Why did you not cover the electrical terminals before you painted?

They are wrapped in painter's tape...the paint is just covering them and they will be shiny when the tape is removed.

Oh lol I also noticed you started grinding away at the old paint, did you get all of the paint sanded off completely? or did you just sand that small section and then give up.


Nope, no grinding there. It was just a quick sanding to smooth out some of the roughest parts of the compressors and to completely remove any trace of the sticker adhesive. It required a sanding down the the bare metal to make it work.

Uh oh, you didn't paint those fins did you?

Yup, I lightly misted them with the metallic paint. I know the paint will add some insulative properties to the condensors but it will not be a statistically signifcant change in the performance of the entire system. Since I opted to get condesnsors that were 3 times as large as actually required the insulation the paint wil provide won't be much of an issue. After all, companies like Black Ice and Thermochill completely powdercoat their entire radiators...and that provides far more insulation than paint alone. Those radiators still perform quite well for our water cooling friends. :)

[teyber]

lol- great braze there on a difficult joint :o

i hear you on flux but in industry they flux the absolute minimum as if you get flux in a system its very bad.

about the paint job on the compressors-

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2343/thatshotvt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2343/thatshotvt9.a1c8fea94f.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=153&i=thatshotvt9.jpg)

[one_servant]

Thanks Teyber. In that case in the future I'm going to use the absolute minimum amount of flux I can get by with. Those pesky little Oxygen molecules can be such a nuisance…but like was mentioned before the flux isn’t an absolute necessity. Thanks for the advice.

The more I look at those compressors the more they look ultra flashy to me. I’m pleased but I feel like I ought to add this information as well. They will be in a very dark case flanked by smoked glass. Any time they are noticed the color will be hard to make out and even when the glass is removed the rest of the case will cast a significant shadow over the compressors muting their tones. Hence the over-the-top color. Cheers everyone and I’ll get back with more updates later this evening or tomorrow.

[Rise]

that paint is awesome! i thought the same about the fins at first - such thin metal fins with even a little insulation would make a difference I would think but good point about the thermochill powder coated rad's. you should be fine and it'll look damn good as well! I'm loving this work log!!!

[yngndrw]

and Thermochill completely powdercoat their entire radiators
Actually, both of my PA120.3's have got raw copper fins - The edges of the find are black but if you look down inside the actual surface area is still copper.

Hope your project works out for you. :)

[one_servant]

Actually, both of my PA120.3's have got raw copper fins - The edges of the find are black but if you look down inside the actual surface area is still copper.

Hope your project works out for you. :)

I suppose my utilization of the word "completely" was a poor choice. The same would be true for these condensors. The edges are painted approximately 4 to 5mm until visibility is lost without a bright light. It's really a sensible consideration as it would be difficult and impractical to coat the interior of the fins. All we’re going for here are aesthetics and thankfully the heat differential will be substantially greater than that experienced by a water cooling radiator as condensation begins. That increased differential will contribute to a reduction of the diminishing returns due to the insulation the paint will add. :)

[wdrzal]

Where's the 7 coats of hand polished Clear Coat ??? :shrug:

[teyber]

the condenser is so oversized for the gpu portion i really don't think it will matter :)

[sjg0]

Thanks Teyber. In that case in the future I'm going to use the absolute minimum amount of flux I can get by with. Those pesky little Oxygen molecules can be such a nuisance…but like was mentioned before the flux isn’t an absolute necessity. Thanks for the advice.

The more I look at those compressors the more they look ultra flashy to me. I’m pleased but I feel like I ought to add this information as well. They will be in a very dark case flanked by smoked glass. Any time they are noticed the color will be hard to make out and even when the glass is removed the rest of the case will cast a significant shadow over the compressors muting their tones. Hence the over-the-top color. Cheers everyone and I’ll get back with more updates later this evening or tomorrow.

Nice! You clearly have put a LOT of thought into this.

Dam.... I just forgot what i was going to ask you too.......

[one_servant]

Where's the 7 coats of hand polished Clear Coat ??? :shrug:

I was asking myself that when I was laying in bed last night...I bet they will chill my processors another 2 or 3 degrees with a good shot of clear coat and some wax works!! :D

the condenser is so oversized for the gpu portion i really don't think it will matter

I'm hoping my calcualtions are right on that too Teyber. Time will tell! :cool:

[one_servant]

Okay guys...I have a confession to make: I'm an impatient man. :rolleyes:

I've been prepping the "foundation" for the whole system by drilling the appropriate holes needed to mount the compressors and condensors. I've also just given the foundation it's first coating of hammered paint. This gray has a chemical it that will cause it to pool and pit throughout the surface. If I am able to properly apply this it should look something like hammered metal. :up:

Getting back to my impatient nature...this stuff takes forever to dry...I mean, has it been a week yet? Sigh. Painted parts dry so much more slowly when you have something you want to do with the parts once they are ready... :p: Anyway, I've got a rather lame update for you this evening as I'm quite literally watching the paint dry. However, I wanted to give you something so here are a few meager photos.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Here’s my basic, make-shift mounting kit for one compressor. I just put it together by walking down the aisles of Home Depot’s hardware dept.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2661.jpg

And again, a great supply from Ron at Under the Ice. These are my Silver brazing rods. This tube was around $50.00 but believe me…it’s worth every penny. I wouldn’t attempt to build this type of system without some really high quality metal molecules for bonding my plumbing. With this silver at work I know the high pressures and other stressors the system will encounter will be handled with much more confidence than with an inferior alloy.

Check it out here: http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=83

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2663.jpg

Here’s a side-by-side of the wheels from Mountain Mods (included in the case package) and some alternates that I have opted for in preparation for the extra load this case is going to carry. The larger wheels came from Home Depot and they are rated at 75 pounds of load each. Their slightly larger diameter will make it easier to roll this case around in carpet or the typical less-than-smooth surface.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2662.jpg

Here’s a sneak peak at the base of the case. This mounting plate will hold all the heavy hitters in this build. As you can see it still needs some refinishing. As soon as I’m able to you’ll see the components mounted and ready for brazing. Notice the 5.25” bay rack in the background of the photo. That part rests in it’s unfinished state; brushed aluminum.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/oceans777/Phase%20change/HPIM2664.jpg

Stay tuned sports fans!!

[teyber]

nice mounting design! did the compressor come with grommets or w/e the proper name is?(feet)?

$50 was a lot for brazing rods about 6 months ago, around 6 months ago i got a pound of brazing rods on ebay for ~ $30 or so and now on ebay they are all going for 50+, more with shipping. i must agree with you that ron's rods(lol) are of great quality and came to me in i think 2 buisness days

[dinos22]

wow what a nice "shed"
it's just like the one out of my wet dream not too long ago :rofl::D

[wdrzal]

You Better pick up some Grommets & sleeves so your compressor doesn't shake your PC apart. Only a few bucks. :up:

[teyber]

uh oh- how long was the nf11fx un-capped, as shown in the picture during the painting?

[sjg0]

You Better pick up some Grommets & sleeves so your compressor doesn't shake your PC apart. Only a few bucks. :up:

Umm yea, I have actually been looking for this for like a couple weeks now.... and..... yea that would be super nice if you could say where to get these rubber mounts.

[wdrzal]

You can get them at any refrigeration,A/C wholesaler or reseller or even your Maytag dealer will have them. Many plumbing and heating shops who carry refrigeration and A/C will also have them.

If they have refrigeration or A/C parts they will have them........I'm not talking automotive part stores or walmart either.

One Servant you may have difficulty finding them in your colors...I already checked and no matches. :(........:rofl::ROTF::D

[one_servant]

did the compressor come with grommets or w/e the proper name is?(feet)?

Nope, the compressor didn't come with ANY accessories. I've had to get everything separate from the rubber feet, to the bolts, to the Supco 3-n-1.

You Better pick up some Grommets & sleeves so your compressor doesn't shake your PC apart. Only a few bucks.

Walt, I'd love to know where you found those as I bought one set exactly like that off eBay a few months ago and I haven't seen any since. I have that EXACT set for my NF11FX but I would really like to match the TF3F. I think I'm going to have to make a trip to my local refrigeration parts dealer to pick up another. When I found the originals I did an eBay search with this string: "Copeland feet".

I've got another question for you....how important do you think the sleeves are? I have tried fitting them with and without the metal sleeves and I can't tell which arrangement would make the best vibration absorbing solution. :shrug:

uh oh- how long was the nf11fx un-capped, as shown in the picture during the painting?

She was only uncapped for a few minutes as I knocked the rubber stoppers out during her move to the painting table. I know I need to keep any debris out of it whilst I work but worry not about the oil. I've got some fresh POE ready to go when the time comes. :up:

One Servant you may have difficulty finding them in your colors...I already checked and no matches.

:rofl: :ROTF: Well that stinks!! I was actually hoping to find some in hot pink to appease the guys in the comfortable shoes. Ron was telling me about those dudes....a strange lot they are. ;)

[teyber]

any upduzles?

[OdinEidolon]

oh my master oh my master i'm in need of updates!

[loonym]

Dying for an update on this project.

[sjg0]

Dying for an update on this project.

for sure.

[teyber]

he hasn't been around since august 29... hope hes just on vacation

[sjg0]

he hasn't been around since august 29... hope hes just on vacation

I like to assume the worst, that way, if anything turns out better than absolutely terrible, I'm still in a good mood.

Ex:

He probably tried charging with propane and something went wrong that blew up him and his family and his house and the rest of the neighborhood and then started a huge state-wide forest fire.

So now if all of those things happened except the fire, I'm better off than i was before. Its like getting a check in the mail(I like MIR's)! Or acing a test!

Its pessimistic optimism! :)

[loonym]

I know they were in for some mighty heavy rain and wind down in his neck of the woods so I hope all is well.

[teyber]

I know they were in for some mighty heavy rain and wind down in his neck of the woods so I hope all is well.

touche... he is problably evacuated...

[one_servant]

Howdy guys! Sorry that it's been so long. If it's not one thing in life it's another! First, I took my wife on a surprise vacation for her birthday two weekends ago...then I came home to find that Tropical Storm Hanna was bearing down on my hometown so I had to baton down the hatches to get ready for that big blow...then the storm passed and I end up with a rip roaring case of Pharyngitis. Thus, I've been out of town, hunkering down during a storm, and now sick to the gills with a bad bug....whew… :shocked:

I say all that to let you know where the heck I’ve been and that needless to say I’ve been too busy or incapacitated to work on the system. However, count on an update this evening! I’ll be back out in the Lab and back to work getting all the components locked down to the base. After I have everything bolted into place the copper bending work will ensue! I’m pretty excited about getting back to work…I think about my stalled progress every day. Anyway, thanks for your understanding and I’ll try to get a post up this evening before my head hits the pillow. :up:

[teyber]

Im just glad to hear you are OK :)

[sjg0]

Any updates?

[Demthios]

Any updates on this at at?? I've been toying with the idea of doing a hybrid water/phase inside of a MM case like this would love to see how it comes out!

[teyber]

ah! one servant logged on 11-10... last time i noticed he was on was in september... hope hes doing OK