pretentious trash after all?

[FLuxUs]

hey folks,

from the following diagram you will probably spot 2 things very quickly. 1. i am an utter noob 2. it probably doesnt make any sense and the whole thing will just blow up? :shocked:



i probably know what you think when looking at it. 1. :rofl: 2. why? :shrug: and yes it is probably very pretenious, but that was my first attempt and thinking when i finally got a chance to read through a couple of your guides today. obviously i havent got that far... but i am sure i could assemble a single stage one with the how to guides and the component lists that you have posted, but i have two cpus and two gpus so there wouldnt be much point in making a single stage, except for gaining the experience. so i thought building a unit for twice (four times) the processors would be the same just that it takes twice as long and twice as much components?:confused: i guess i am probably wrong by thinking that...

the question is now, does this diagram make sense or would it make more sense not to connect them and instead do two? also, if that does work what comps., conds. would be suitable?

thx for your answers in advance...

[vab206]

is it just me or does that confuse anyone else, i would have 1 compressor running CPU's and 1 for your GPU's, i would think that putting 2 very different loads on the same comperssor wouldnt be ideal. it could work just fine though, im attempting my 1st Single Stage build as well. best of luck to ya!

[FLuxUs]

yeah i just realised that i labeled that wrong. :D thx for pointing it out. does it make sense to put them in a circle or should i split it into two seperate units? what components are you going to use? ... i assume you will be finished way before me so let me know how you progress...best of luck to you as well

[danlm]

I am speaking only from my limited experience, but that thing would be a b***h to tune. Being your first system, having multiple evaps complicates things. I can understand that you are trying to create a larger heat capacity, like having two separate loops, but all within one. You have 4 evaporators and the refrigerant changes phase multiple times all in one loop...too complicated. For a first time build, simplicity is the best route to take. Interesting idea, though.

[DetroitAC]

It makes no sense to me to have the compressor discharge cross over to the other half, and on a first look, I think it would tend to magnify the performance difference between the two "halves" of the system. I can't see any good reason to build it like that. Other than the discharge lines cross over each other, everything looks fine but I have a few comments.

TXVs and receivers will require heavier braided suction lines since you will have enough charge in the system to always have liquid present.

TXVs that are small enough to handle a single CPU or GPU are hard to find, and using 4 would be pricey.

Nice drawing, and thanks for suppling an 'outside the box' problem to think about. :welcome: to XS!

[vab206]

im going to be running phase on my CPU with a water loop that both are currently running on now moving to just my GPU, partially because i only have room for a 120x1 rad. but im hoping that when i get around to buying another 8800gtx i can make room for a 120x2 rad in my phase box.

[FLuxUs]

thx DetroitAC! it didnt make sense to me either thats why i was wondering if i should just split it into two systems. but for some reason i thought it all has to be one thing rather than two but i couldnt think of any other way to connect the two than crossing the discharge lines. maybe using a big condenser with two loops inside? i just found one on the bay for 50euros. i didnt know the txvalves would be that difficult to use and less i knewed they are that pricey. i just read about them in the refBasics guide but i realised that they are talking about bigger setups like in airconditioning and stuff. the drawing is actually just a careful montage of all their parts they introduced on refBasics that i chopped up and put together, apart from the tubings and the evaps. i guess i have to think about it a little bit more... thx so far for your answers

[FLuxUs]

im going to be running phase on my CPU with a water loop that both are currently running on now moving to just my GPU, partially because i only have room for a 120x1 rad. but im hoping that when i get around to buying another 8800gtx i can make room for a 120x2 rad in my phase box.

so you wanna build a water chiller unit and not a single stage?:confused:

[vab206]

no not a water chiller, just taking my cpu off the loop and hooking my phase unit to it and leaving just my gpu solo on the loop.

[FLuxUs]

sorry it was way too late (6 in the morning) for me and my english comes from a cereal box (i am german) so i have a hard time understanding everything sometimes...

[PhilippF]

I see no sense at all in crossing these two circuits. On the contrary: If one half uses very little load, the refrigerant will accumulate in this accumulator and the other half with more demand will run dry...

[FLuxUs]

does that mean the refrigerant will accumulate in the receiver in the liquid line where the gpu load would be (right), meaning that there will be a lot of super heat coming back into the compressor that sends it to the other half where the cpus load is (left) and wont fill up the system properly so that the left side will run dry? if so, what about connecting the cpu1 and gpu2 to one "half" and the cpu2 and gpu1 to the other? that would make up for almost equal loads or not? (i guess that was what i was thinking when labeling the diagram except for not swapping gpu1 and gpu2) but still, i guess there really is not much point in crossing these systems. so is there any other solution to make a unit that drives two cpus and two gpus? thx for your answer PhilippF

Philipp

[one_servant]

Philipp,

I think you are on the right track with what these fine engineers have told you thus far. Here's a simple response that you have likely already thought of: you could simply have two separate single stage systems that are "dual head" (each having two evaporators). With your TXV you wouldn't have too much difficulty tuning the system....although they would get pricey rather quickly.

I have a question for you: How did you create that diagram? I looks great and if you did that work in Photoshop I’m sure you spent a good deal of time on it…just curious. :D

And by-the-way, your English is absolutely excellent. :welcome:

[FLuxUs]

hey one servant thx for your answer. that is really funny i get the "final" answer from you, because the reason why i came up with that diagram is because i have seen a dual head in the forums and also i have seen the funny diagram of your animated oldfashioned pistoncompressor in another thread. first time i saw it i thought thats a good idea i will just connect 2 or 3 compressors in a row to get better heat capacity but then i found out that compressors dont like fluids in the suction line coming into their system, just superheated vapourized refrigerant. so with that idea having to be discarded i thought oh well then i just put everything in a row ...com1.->cond1.->evap1->comp2.->cond2.->evap2.->back to com1. in a row written down it looks like it could be done like that, but in the diagram it was obvious that there is simply just a crossover with no reason, nor advantage if anything just a disadvantage. well, at least i know for sure now what to do. the tx valves are almost on the way. 4pcs for 20euros (unfortunately no orifices but at least they are new valves:mad:). i will look for a place to get the orifices from tonight.
what compressor should i go for? and what refrigerant more importantly? since they will be dual head i should look for compressors that can handle at least 150-200watts right. better is probably 200watts. also does it make sense to use a large condensor with two loops instead of two conds? i found a really nice one.

and yes i did that diagram with photoshop. took about an hour.:D

[one_servant]

Indeed! That is a really nice condensor you have there! :clap: That should take care of the heat load you'll encounter from your processor and compressor. Excellent find.

With regard to the compressor I'm particularly partial to the Danfoss NF11FX. These days my philosophy with regard to compressors is to slightly oversize them to "future-proof" your build. I figure that the newer processors (with more cores) will end up being hotter than ever and thus more heat mitigation will be required. However, you won't see any performance boost at this stage when you use a compressor larger than 1/3 to 1/2 HP. At least this is the case with a single stage system. I could be wrong and newer processors may have some technology that allows them to run cooler but we just don't know at this point.

[FLuxUs]

thx one servant. i just need to find a damn fan for that thing:confused:

good point with the future cpus, though i think with the cpus architectures getting smaller and smaller (45nm nowadays right?) the development for more energy efficient processors is increasing too. i mean even today you get 55watt versions and 95watt versions and others. i think they will try to improve that further. not to talk about the future of carbon nanotubes (if they will ever become more affordable to produce:()

[one_servant]

Man, I hope you're right about that. I can't help but wonder if they will go with a processor that will generate more heat simply because it is financially feasible. But, I raise my glass to processors that use less and less power. :clap:

[PhilippF]

Why do you connect the two circuits at all? I dont see any reason not to use two separate condensors (if I am taking the drawing wrong please forgive me). This is drawn weird but basically its a twin compressor setup. There would be essential that you use compressors with oil exchange line between them and mount them exactly on the same level. Otherwise one compressor could run out of oil.


Regards,

Philipp

[FLuxUs]

Why do you connect the two circuits at all? I dont see any reason not to use two separate condensors (if I am taking the drawing wrong please forgive me). This is drawn weird but basically its a twin compressor setup. There would be essential that you use compressors with oil exchange line between them and mount them exactly on the same level. Otherwise one compressor could run out of oil.


Regards,

Philipp

it is in fact "two" seperate condensors just that they use one fan. the two systems are not crossing over like in the first diagram. that condensor is about 450mmx400mm big with two (actually three, but one is not in use) seperate circuits. i just wanted to keep everything compact. plus i dont want too much noise, so one big fan is better than two small ones.